Trump's inflammatory choice of words is out there again doing its dirty work. He is charged with 4 felonies and out on pre-trial release. When will anyone put him where he can't whip things up? He is a danger to society and needs to be off the streets. So frustrating.
Bonnie, Having observed Donald Trump increasingly absorb the RNC, the Congress, and much of the judiciary, combined with the media’s failure to fulfill its role in helping people fully understand what the GOP is up to, I repeatedly have submitted that we the people are all that’s left to save our democracy. However, after reading, out of 44, that only 4 of Trump’s former cabinet secretaries support Trump’s re-election bid (Civil Discourse w/ Joyce Vance), I would submit, particularly, that the 4 generals who served in the Trump Administration—John Kelly, H.R. McMaster, Jim Mattis, and Mark Milley—protocol aside, are obligated to address the American people and reveal the full truth they witnessed about Trump throughout their tenure serving in his Administration. If we’re to defeat autocracy, we can’t afford for these generals to withhold anything they know that would reveal how, over and over again, Trump was intent on defying his Oath of Office. Speaking for myself, I will continue to amplify this obligation because, contrary to Trump’s first term when there were guardrails to curtail him, the American people would be subjected to an unleashed Trump were he re-elected.
Hi Barbara Jo, The four individuals you have named have been outspoken about Trump. Jim Mattis finally resigned after saying: "I stayed as long as I could.' He published 'Call Sign Chaos' all about Trump. When Mike Milley retired, he made a speech addressed to all service-people in which he said: "We taken an oath to the Constitution, not an individual. We don't take an oath to a king or a queen, to a tyrant or dictator or wannabe dictator." This was a jab at Trump when Trump had requested his 'loyalty' after losing the 2020 election and hand-wrote a memo circumventing the JCS to withdraw US troops from Somalia no later than December 31, 2020 and Afghanistan no later than 15 January 2021. This was detailed in Bob Woodward and Robert Costa's book "Peril." H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump). John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler. All of these folks resigned in protest and said why. Mike Milley was especially forthcoming about Trump's circumventing the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of Defense. Rex Tillerson (former secretary of state) is someone who definitely could speak more forthrightly about Trump's actions and behaviors (besides calling him a moron).
Valere, You are aware of these narratives because you have prioritized being well-informed. I would submit that most, if not all, of what you have recounted is invisible to the public-at-large. The stakes are far too great not to remedy this travesty.
Moreover, I suspect none of us have the full truth of what they witnessed under Trump. If I’m right, these omissions can’t stand.
Valare, thank you as usual for your information about these four generals! Barbara Jo is correct that most of us probably have never heard of these books. My guess is that they would be reluctant to provide more information because they respect the secrecy about military intelligence, technical secrets and troop movements so they have already said what they can say. It would be a fascinating and informative program if 60 Minutes for example could assemble them together to discuss how Trump could endanger our country if re-elected but my guess is they would decline?
Maybe FRONTLINE could examine these facts from the generals and Tillerson and Pompeo (and whoever else has pertinent information that the public "needs to know" given that we may not have any trials that convict Trump of anything).
I think we’re going to see the Jack Smith, Washington DC, trial, front and center either before November election or right during it. If I had any wish, I would hope that there is a grand jury looking at Ginny Thomas and an indictment for her that would force Clarence to resign. I would wish a grand jury looking at Tommy Tuberville, who was Trump’s mouse during January 6. Recall Trump making phone calls of “where is Tommy?” during the January 6 standoff when Tommy was hiding in the basement. Afterwards Tommy had plenty to do with upholding military appointments as a ‘too transparent’ payback from Trump.
Thank you Ira. I do agree about having a fascinating and informative program from someone like 60 minutes. My concern as always is these generals they are civilians now and unprotected. Trump‘s supporters are powerful. They reach is absolutely unimaginable. A significant number of the most prestigious, psychologist and psychiatrist reported on his state and that they thought he was sociopath and psychopath the APA disagreed, disavowed their credentials (Brandy Lee, MD, was terminated from Yale for example) and withdrew their study from publication. So when he can reach and influence, APA and institutions like Yale, he can reach civilian former generals. Trump has already given out their addresses. He is furious that they have publicly spoken against him. He gave out Tony Blinken’s address. He is giving coded messages for the MAGA to find and harm E. Jean Carroll. We have such an extraordinary atmosphere, that we have to add the safety piece before we ask people to risk themselves and their families.
These former Generals are tough. I appreciate your opinion that many of trump's supporters can motivate maga (small leters please as they are cowards) to try to inflict harm on his critics, I doubt that scares these four guys! As former Army myself, my guess is that the generals would respond "Bring It"!
Ira, To clarify, I don’t expect the generals necessarily to release new information, but simply repeatedly to ensure that what’s already been released reaches a broader audience. Accordingly, I would welcome your proposed 60-minute example.
I agree. But it should not be "one and done" for the powerful to use their power to persuade the American people. Many, many of us are writing postcards and contacting elected representatives, and giving money every single day to defeat Trump. If these people are full of character and honor and fighters for our democracy, they should be pulling out all the stops as so many of us are.
Sonya, First, I agree, like the rest of us who work every day, that the generals I referenced would have to persist in disclosing truths they had witnessed about Trump. Second, countering your exchange with Valere, I would not necessarily expect the generals to disclose truths they hadn’t already released. I simply am urging they do more to ensure already-disclosed truths reach a wider audience that includes everyday people who either haven’t read their books or haven’t read journalists’ accounts of truths they have witnessed.
Sonya, It is hardly ‘one and done’ when MAGA has found their homes, and given their families very real death threats. This is the very stuff that Mitt Romney wrote about and spoke about when he said I can afford $5,000 per day for private security for myself and my family, but the rest of the people in Congress cannot, and they are receiving the same threats. The rest of the military cannot, and they are receiving the same threats. We might be brave and say oh yes, I’m going into the middle of the street with my middle finger straight up. But when the threat is against your family, it’s different. It’s very different now for civilian, farmers soldiers, who have zero protection, and live on the same retirement salaries the rest of America does. Do you think there’s extra for private security? These former generals do not have homes on military bases with unlimited military protection. It would be like the MAGA arriving at your door, threatening your family and pets (and pets are family as well). And you do not know that these retired generals are not speaking to every private individual they come across. You do not know that they are not sitting at their own kitchen table, writing postcards. Arie A 30 year career in the military with multiple appointments to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, then, being subjected to the humiliation, mistreatment of Trump, then publicly speaking about it, and writing about it to receive MAGA at their doors with death, threats is hardly ‘one and done.’ That’s a very presumptuous and self-serving statement. We could say writing postcards representatives, while being important and extremely useful, is ‘’one and done.’ I’m saying that we shouldn’t throw slings and arrows at soldiers (and their families) who have made sacrifices for their entire career (and then received death threats afterward for speaking out). That’s misguided.
It is a good and fair point that none of us have private security, nor can most of us afford it. If my statement caused folks to feel disrespected, I will try to do better.
Maggie, While I would welcome their public endorsements of Biden (none has so far as I know), I gladly would settle for their repeatedly passing already-disclosed truths they had witnessed about Trump to unaware eligible voters who had neither read their books nor journalists’ reports of their views.
I think you meant Mark Milley. I have owned a copy of "Peril" since it was first published but haven't read it. I'm just so burned out on it all, and I have enough personal stuff going on that I have no energy left for it.
I know damn well who and what Trump is. Problem is that there are a lot of people who love him even as they also know who he is, and worse, who he wants to become.
Marycat2021 I’m right there with you. I’m managing to stay pretty well informed by the writers here on Substack. If y’all want to read a hair-raiser, read Dr Timothy Snyder’s post of yesterday. Heather Cox Richardson, Dan Rather, Jay Kuo, Greg Olear and Jeff Tiedrich are just some of the writers who have been posting some excellent Substacks and whenever it’s possible to share them, I do.
Yes, it would be helpful if those who worked in the last administration would come out publicly and as often as possible now and up to the election. With so much going on in the news these days I really think people tune it all out but we still have to keep slogging through the muck and talking to people. As Joyce always says, “We’re in this TOGETHER”(whether we want to be or not).
Mary Cat, indeed, they are a problem. But they are never going to change. Not in this election cycle and not beyond. Who we need to change our the fence sitters and those who haven’t yet registered to vote.
I think what will save the Democrats will be independent voters who will find Trump too frightening and extreme to vote for. It's widely believed that these people will vote for Biden. Biden needs to go hell for leather against Netanyahu and bring a ceasefire to Gaza - and stop supplying Israel with weapons. He's making a lot of younger voters very angry.
Marycat2021, I recognize the younger voters are very angry. Few of them are reading history: they just see Israel's unconscionable response to Palestinian civilians. The most helpful action you and others can take is to understand that Israel was recognized under US law as a Major Non-NATO ally. We have bilateral treaties with Israel: approved by Congress in 1952, 1982, 1991 and 1994. (Biden is bound by these: he inherited them. He inherited Natanyahu, one of Trump's closest friends). Please go to the USSOS website and I think it is the military section that holds our treaties. We have three distinct treaties beginning from 1953 that Biden inherited. He cannot abrogate them. So far as Biden going 'hell for leather against Netanyahu to bring a ceasefire to Gaza' - he has done everything possible against a dictator who is supported by Russia. What Biden has done is: he sent Tony Blinken to Israel eight and the mideast times with a distinct message to Netanyahu that we want a cease fire, stop killing civilians in Gaza, we will supply aid to Gaza and the US will only accept a two state solution. Netanyahu, Putin and Trump are the three headed snake. Netanyahu thinks he can hold off Biden until after the November 3 election, which he is hoping Trump will win. Biden and Tony Blinken attended APEC together the third week in October 2023. (Netanyahu did not attend). Blinken gave Israel's foreign minister the above message: basically, '"ell Netanyahu to stop it, stop the retaliation against Gaza citizens, and the only acceptable resolution to the conflict is a two state solution with Israel having noting to do with Gaza. Nor will Hamas be on the table every again as a voting choice." Natanyahu ignored the message and ramped up his attacks on Gaza. Biden sent Blinken on three more mideast trips to meet with Egypt and other leaders to press for the above resolution. So far as the three above treaties: they supply US support and weapons to Israel (when Israel is attacked). When we have a Biden re-election, and a super majority win with a Blue super majority congress, we can withdraw the treaties with Israel and force Natanyahu to negotiate. Again, go to the US state department website, read the treaties: Biden is bound by law, and he inherited them. What we MUST do is gain a super majority Blue Congress. Biden is going to be re-elected, but we cannot withdraw treaties (or impeach Eileen Cannon btw) without a super-majority. So far as younger voters: I assume you are not younger and you may even be of an age that you recall when some of the treaties were arranged/signed/approved. Please tell the younger voters how it works: we have to abide by treaties, but with their help we can again a Blue majority congress and withdraw them (rewrite them). We can re-elect Biden who is our ONLY protection against a dictator the equivalent of Putin and Netanyahu rolled into one. Please read the treaties/agreements and get back to me with comments/suggestions. Valere
What a wonderful group of well-informed (or questioning) readers are participating in Joyce Vance's yeoman's work of Civil Discourse! I have spent well over an hour reading most of the replies, and I thank you all.
Meanwhile, (in my first reading of the morning) I request that you all learn about and support Biden's judicial nominee, the brilliant and gracious, Adeel Mangi. Judd LeGum writes a full report on this outstanding man and how the Right and Dark Money are doing all in their power to persuade Democrat Senators not to approve of his nomination because he is a Muslim. [the first American Muslim federal appellate judicial nominee]
Saw Judd's report - too bad the "anonymous" Democrats who supposedly dont support Mr. Mangi dont have the guts to put their names to that opinion. That certainly would allow their constituents to voice an opinion to them.
Trump maligned his security advisors and demeaned and maligned his generals. He had 20 some turnovers of secretaries of state, senior advisors and military generals and admirals who were distinguished battle tested officers resigned and retired early because in their words 'they could not take it any longer.' They have written tell all books, given public interviews, and given extensive interviews in which they have told all that they are able without violating security oaths (which stay with them after retirement by the way). They have received death threats from the off the rails MAGA. I believe they deserve to live as civilians and not be dragged before any public group to further risk their lives. They have told all - but the American public has not become self-educated enough to 'read.' This is just a superficial list of what these particular generals have written or given access to writers/journalists. Given that their personal lives have been destroyed by a cult leader who has told his minions to hunt and kill these generals, why would you say this sounds like an effective plan? I understand if you may not be aware of these publications or the death threats. As citizens, these officers, who have fought bravely for our freedom and the protection of our democracy, do not have funding for security. They live just the way we do.
Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
Bonnie, For what it’s worth, I plan to include this proposal in every document I submit to those who hold power. Seeing there is strength in numbers, I hope others will join me.
Lynell, I imagine one might start with her or his district and state federal representatives, bearing in mind, because they get piles of mail, how you will get their attention. In my case, because a dear friend has worked closely with a lightening-rod-type state rep, my immediate plan is to get my rather comprehensive document to pass sufficient muster to get it personally delivered. Seeing my goal is to help bring recognition to a project for building a nationwide pro-democracy movement, I’m choosing this route to try and avoid my work getting lost in a pile of requests.
Good luck with your project! I have been in contact with my 2 senators and 1 rep through Jessica Craven's CWCW website. By the replies I receive from one Senator, I get the impression that I am being heard.
What I need to start doing is developing a communication with my state senator and delegate, something I have yet to do. I've only contacted the governor (a Republican) a few times, but have to up that count as well!
100%. The generals need to be strongly encouraged to abandon their cowardice, as does Mike Kelly. I read awhile back that there are a handful officials from the first Trump Administration who hate him but won't speak up. It's time to "out" them ASAP. The conservative ethos of individual freedom and liberty is proving to be quite toxic to the survival of the nation. No surprise there.
Joyce, What most troubles me is the price of not speaking out sufficiently to reach the public-at-large: a greater possibility of a dictator’s loyalists taking over media, education, the courts, and the military. (Source: Heather Cox Richardson LFAA) Franky, before reading Joyce’s Substack earlier this morning, I had no idea, that out of 44, only 4 of Trump’s former cabinet secretaries support Trump’s reelection bid.
Their apparent silence notwithstanding, we have but 7+ months to save ourselves from the MAGA- Heritage Foundation’s 2025 Project that would subject us to both a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual.
While a minor point, in your first sentence I presume you meant John Kelly, who replaced Reince Priebus as White House chief-of-staff, and who also was a general.
The four generals have spoken openly to journalists and written books. They spent decades long careers defending our country (in battle). So they indeed 'have the guts' and have proclaimed what they heard, saw and know. Every one of them has spoken out - and received death threats from don-Don's minions. They are not cowards: they would have been court martialed and thrown in prison for speaking against their commander in chief while they were on active duty. In the words of Jim Mattis: "I took it as long as I could." They all felt the same way about Trump. I've never heard anyone else call them 'cowards.'
Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
It is unfair to allude that they did not have the courage to speak: several resigned in protest and have written tell all books. It's up to the American public to read these books - and since these brave soldiers gave up careers - and stayed in service longer than some had intended - they should not be required to run around the country informing Americans about Trump's behaviors.
Thank you. I wasn't clear, but I'm thinking about all the previous times that they didn't speak up, especially John Kelly. I know he recently publicly spoke out in interview with Jim Scioutto. They're speaking up recently. At least they are now. Gen Milley is an exception as he was quite vocal at the time events happened. I was not thinking of him in my comment. Mattis I feel took too long, but that's my opinion. Thank you for your response. And thank you for naming the books and the circumstances when they did speak out. Very informative.
Hi Joyce, Ira Lechner just recommended a route for them to speak. And he pointed out that these are tough guys, who most likely would say 'bring it' to the MAGA ilk cultist pseudo bullies. They probably have soldier friends who would protect them. Mattis was very popular with his Marine troops.
@A doc reads, In my view, our best shot is to persuade those with power to exert their influence on these generals who already have revealed much to journalists. The problem is that these truths have remained largely invisible to the public-at-large.
I disagree with your statement that 'those with power' should exert their influence on these generals. They have already very bravely spoken out about their experiences with Trump and have received death threats. Why should they be subjected to more threats and disruption after serving honorably for decades. Isn't it enough that they have served honorably, spoken out publicly and some have published books? If anyone needs to have influence exerted on them, it's the 'powers that be' who have sat behind their protected positions and not defended these generals when Trump demeaned and maligned them. What more do they need to do? Every one of them has stated that Trump circumvented the well established chain of command.
Valere, Were Trump to be re-elected, his loyalists would take over the military, let alone media, education, and the courts. (Source: Heather Cox Richardson LFAA) The point is that these generals comprise a mere fraction of the people who would be at great risk.
Accordingly, because preserving democracy—while we still have some semblance of it—is far easier than trying to get it back were we to lose it, I won’t hesitate to call upon everyone to do all they can, including myself, who’s still at work at nearly 5 AM my time.
I agree with all that you have said, except compelling public servants who have sacrificed for us throughout their entire careers to be exposed to additional death threats from Trump and his minions. Indeed, there is 'more.' Intelligence briefings given to members of Congress have shown that Trump, while still in office, gave nuclear secrets to Iran and when members of both parties protested, he said: "What's the problem? They will have nuclear power anyway." Intelligence officers, State Department officials, military officers: all know about Trump's atrocities. You are suggesting using four now retired generals and perhaps another admiral to be the voice to explain in detail to the American public how egregious Trump is. These now retired soldiers have all spoken out about their experiences with Trump and have received death threats. They do not have security. They do not have funding for security - and their retirements do not afford private security. And you are hoping to reach the American public with information aimed at breaking through their apathy by compelling these individuals to further risk their lives with this kind of message. The part that bothers me is you view it as these folks' 'obligation' to speak about what they know about Trump (while they have already spoken and received death threats from Trump's minions). Every single one of them knew of colleagues and other former officials who had received death threats for speaking up about don-Don. They spoke up anyway - and have written and given interviews. Trump operates just like a Mafia boss. And the MAGA minions follow him. I don't know if it is legal to 'require' a now private citizen to 'speak up' about all they know. As military officers, they swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are not 'obligated' to speak about Trump as private citizens. But even without having to be obligated or required to do so, they have spoken and written and received death threats. They are not obligated in any sense to take any more senseless risks for an American public that is too apathetic to read what they have already written. I'm all for a pro-democracy movement, but not at the expense of requiring someone to do something. The essence of democracy is choice. And you are advocating that we take away the right to choose from now private citizens as some kind of sacrifice with what will surely be more death threats in an attempt to lead their fellow citizens from apathy. I agree our situation is very serious. We who volunteer to do so have to work very hard to inform everyone we know that Trump is the greatest danger to the world in 2024 (see Economist November 17, 2024 - a special edition, written entirely on the danger of a Trump election). But not a single one of us needs to be conscripted and that includes the now private citizen generals who have given a life of service, been demeaned and belittled by Trump, have spoken out and have received death threats from don-Don's minions as he operates as a Mafia boss. If folks are afraid of Trump, they need to stay out of the public arena. And if they are not afraid work with every bit of energy they possess to defeat him.
The four generals have spoken openly to journalists and written books. They spent decades long careers defending our country (in battle). So they indeed 'have the guts' and have proclaimed what they heard, saw and know. Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
It is unfair to allude that they did not have the courage to speak: several resigned in protest and have written tell all books. It's up to the American public to read these books - and since these brave soldiers gave up careers - and stayed in service longer than some had intended - they should not be required to run around the country informing Americans about Trump's behaviors.
Thank you for this information. Of course these books have not crossed my information horizon but that is not a surprise. Brexit UK legacy media (save some areas covered in The Guardian) is as complicit in supporting and covering up the extremist anti democratic intent and deeds of the MAGA/Heritage Foundation corporate takeover of the UK & US state’s as that in the US.
It is tragic that they and their families and friends should be under constant threat of potential violence or assassination instigated by Trump’s abuses of power.
If Trump is re elected they will, no doubt, be at the top of his presidential hit list. I hope they are all preparing self protections for the worst case scenario unfolding after November in any manner that they can🐈⬛
Anyone who speaks loudly and publicly will be in trumps crosshairs after the election. Whether he wins or loses.
It takes corage to speak truth to power.
I wish these folks writing books would be featured weekly on TV, or in social media interviews/posts. Todays voters don't consume books like my generation.
My copy of Barbara McQuades book Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America arrives tomorrow.
Thank you Monnina, I had no idea the Heritage Foundation had reached the UK. I know the Economist published a special edition on November 17, 2023 (a special edition publication) that Trump was the greatest danger to the world in 2024. What a distinction!
If you are interested and have the time European Powell on Twitter/X is very informative on the already baked in private corporate land grabs taking place across Great Britain being facilitated by this global group of criminal privateers playing at being politicians.
Northern Ireland is still a legally contested land mass because of The Windsor Agreement leaving it protected under EU laws. Although the Reform Party under Heritage Foundation funded Ben Habib and his recently announced political partnership with a British nationalist extremist party here l, the Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV), flags the fact they they have yet to give up trying to gain an economic bridgehead on the island of Ireland. 🔥
I am for “60 Minutes” doing a Sunday night show with these men. Their stories need to be told and heard by the voters of this country! Very serious acquisitions that must be out there before voting in November! The more we know the better!
I agree. I'm hoping they're just waiting for more people to pay attention.
Maybe it's a small comfort that none of the the orange cocksplats cabinet secretaries were confirmed by congress. Just as none of his new ones would be.
Jen, I appreciate you writing. As for timing, continuing to allow Trump’s deceptions and distortions to go unanswered, in my view, is a huge mistake. Accordingly, even if the generals simply were repeatedly to ensure that truths they already had released were to reach a broader audience, that contribution would be immeasurable.
As for your other point, whether cabinet secretaries were Senate-confirmed or Acting, as long as they were Trump loyalists, the damage they could incur would be incalculable.
@Anewseemliness, Were the 4 generals simply to commit to seeing that truths they already had released were to reach a broader audience, that would be an extraordinarily meaningful contribution.
Not really a beacon of sunshine and happiness though.
Frustrating, discouraging, infuriating, enraging, all words that describe my feelings at this point. Giving up is not in my DNA, but these delays are really starting to piss me off.
I belive in due process, but damn. How long will these judges allow trumps specious filings?
And don't get me started on Cannon,. Delays, paperless orders, motions denied without prejudice, setting up for an unappealable judgement. She is a disgrace, and should be removed.
Now, more than ever, we need to stay strong and committed to defeating trump at the ballot box. That he will contest the outcome is a given, but he doesn't hold the levers of power that he did in 2020.
It's always darkest before dawn. I just want to wake up from this nightmare. I'm exhausted.
Bonnie MacEvoy -- I agree ! I appreciate the time and expertise that Joyce Vance put into this and her other postings to keep us "civilians" sane, but it looks to me like Trump doesn't have to be elected president -- he is already running and ruining our country. No matter what either house of Congress brings up for a vote, Trump tells his followers how to vote and NOTHING gets done. His lawyers and Judge Cannon have tied the legal system up in knots so that perfectly reasonable charges against him are getting delayed to the point we voters feel rejected. He has taken over the Republican party so thoroughly that he decides where its money goes. He also made sure the Supreme Court is beholden to him.
He is obviously suffering dementia and yet even his family members -- Don Jr., Alec, Ivanka, Tiffany, Melanie and Barron -- are doing NOTHING to be sure he is cognizant enough to be in charge of their family assests, to say NOTHING of his being president, where he would make an ass of himself and ruin our country.
And now he has promised a "bloodbath" if he is not elected. The MAGAs are being whipped up again and I would hope the elected members on Congress and other administration people are afraid for their lives. This is an unpaid advertisement by Donald that he intends to retaliate.
We have NOTHING left except our VOTE ! For gawd sakes, VOTE !
Agree! Seeing him on video clips makes me sick. He has resorted to more gutter talk which gained the most crowd approval. This only proves what we already know about his supporters. I have had to resort to muting his videos.
I look at the “bloodbath” comment as voter intimidation. A threat if not voted for. Why is he still running around loose. Should be in jail or a mental institution.
My assumption, not knowledge, is that he has full access to blackmail material on highly placed state officials. For instance of the kind gathered by those funding Epstein’s Operations.
The MAGA mob is already raging. The social arena already fractured into political sectarianism by Trump’s abstract hatred and imagined grievances being broadcast daily by the legacy media. He is like a wicked Wizard of Oz with the mass media his pet flying monkeys.
It is being broadcast by Steve Bannon, former Cambridge Analytica psy ops owner on his 'War Room.' He is still pounding away that Trump won in 2020 - with the psychological warfare technique that given enough repetitions of the message, the recipient will believe it. Bannon's audience is Republican.
Trump needs to be committed to prison. I was going to say a facility for the mentally ill, but that's unfair to the mentally ill. Unless tRump is removed from society and rendered unable to communicate, our country cannot heal from his toxicity.
His frivolous legal appeals are mind boggling. The special treatment he receives from the legal system is unfair to regular people.
Hi JennSH, We do not often see criminal trials 'up close.' But the alleged criminal usually receives a lot of leeway that the victim does not. This is what we are seeing with Trump - and Jack Smith and Merrick Garland are being very careful to not make mistakes. They
Thank you Joyce. I will scream it loud and I will scream it proud. We must find the courage to stand up to such outrage. This is our country, our family, our life our democracy our constitution. Please continue to help us. I for one need guidance.
Mike, While I’m no substitute for Joyce, I believe all of us are obligated to take great effort to drive home what it would mean to lose our democracy and how our way of life would change. Trump already has stated he would enact the Insurrection Act on Day 1 of his presidency. He’s already spoken about rounding up his political enemies. Accordingly, we can’t relent in urging people, whatever their reasons for remaining complacent or indecisive, to imagine what America would look like were the President to start moving the National Guard around to put down our voices, our right to protest policy with which we disagree, perhaps indefinitely detaining us. This is not without precedent. Trump had wanted to criminalize protests around Black Lives Matter for the murder of George Floyd.
Given the hour (ET), I’ve barely touched upon rights and freedoms that would be ripped away, nor have I yet mentioned women losing control of their bodies, nor what it would mean were we unable to depend on an independent judiciary (we’re already starting to see what that would look like), or depend on the rule of law, or an independent justice department, or an independent federal communications committee—all things Trump has said he would do if re-elected.
Ultimately, we have 7+ months to urge uncommitted voters to listen to the things Trump says and the people he admires. No one should doubt that whatever the freedoms we have in this country, whatever one likes about this country, dramatically would change.
45 wants us to be afraid. That shows how desperate he is. But we are all in this together. Read Heather Cox Richardson’s March 15 substack where she describes how in the 1850s we the people saved our democracy from autocracy. An incredible story we all need to know about. It might help give you strength and some calm 🇺🇸🗽🥁
In the 1850s "we the people saved our democracy from autocracy." That saving was for Whites, because my people were still living under an autocracy, better known as slavery in the 1850s. Just thought I point out that very important aspect Heather Cox Richardson left out in her 3/15 Substack.
Thanks Tutone, I would also like to suggest Heather Cox Richardson's letter today which covers the scary agenda of The Heritage Foundation and Project 2025. This is REALLY scary stuff that, I beleive most people are unaware of.
Thanks Joyce, the reality that you describe I would have to blame Merrick Garland whose opening statement “we will follow the facts where they lead us” waited two years to follow the facts. He also should have pushed the Southern District of New York to immediately send out requested papers immediately. I blame both Fani Willis and Wade for not understanding the optics of their position. Going on vacations with your consultant??? Jesus, Mary , Joseph, Moses and everyone else. All we can do is vote but our judicial system is broken.
It's interesting everyone wants to blame Merrick Garland. How about Mitch McConnell, who wouldn't allow a vote in the House of Representatives on Trump's last impeachment because it would have passed and it would have denied Trump ever running for president again. And now McConnell has the audacity to say Trump must be made to lose this 2024 election ? ! ?
What I believe he said was that he wouldn't vote for Biden, wouldn't endorse Trump, and wouldn't reveal who he'd vote for because it's private. What a schmendrick - Yiddish for bumbler, incompetent, idiotic, and clueless - like so many other GOP politicians. He acted properly and legally to count the electoral votes on January 6 only because his legal advisors told him to.
SCHMENDRICK! a wonderful new word (I thought I learned all the Yiddish expressions from my friends in high school). BUMBLER, INCOMPETENT, IDIOTIC, AND CLUELESS!
I have 2 questions based upon the very real possibility that the Supreme Court will derail Trump being brought to trial on the January 6 insurrection before the November election. My question is based upon the need, both for the American people and for posterity, to reveal the full nature and extent of the culpability of Donald Trump, his accomplices and his co-conspirators in attempting to overthrow the valid election of Joe Biden. Even if the far ring-wing majority of the Supreme Court stretched beyond all reason to rule that Trump had absolute immunity from prosecution for crimes he committed while President, his co-defendants and co-conspirators in the insurrection should not be the beneficiaries of such largesse.
1. There is a virtual certainty that if Trump is re-elected President, he will close down all federal indictments and investigations against him, his accomplices and his co-conspirators. Even if the Supreme Court causes the trial to be delayed until after the election, is there any reason why the Special Prosecutor could not now sever him from the indictment and proceed against his co- defendants, while naming him as an unindicted co-conspirator? It is settled law that the statements of all co-conspirators made in furtherance of the conspiracy are admissible against all other co-conspirators. To proceed in this manner would cause all of the evidence against Trump and his co-conspirators to see the light of day, possibly even before the election.
2. In the alternative, for whatever the reason, if the Special Prosecutor is precluded from proceeding against Trump on the January 6 insurrection, and given the certainty that if Trump is elected he will close down all pending cases and investigations relating to him, would it be wise for the Special Prosecutor to pursue the release of a Grand Jury report that memorializes, for the sake of posterity, the relevant evidence in this case?
The above reasoning equally applies to the Georgia case. In both cases, if necessary, Trump could be severed, and the trials could proceed against his co-defendants while naming him as an un-indicted co-conspirator. Should they be convicted, their guilt will be imputed to Trump.
IF the SCOTUS goes beyond the pale and rules that Trump has complete immunity, then Biden should put him in jail immediately. He would also have complete immunity.
Hi L.D., I believe the co-conspirators are still unnamed, but we think we know who they are. I' wondering if Jack Smith plans to move ahead with indictments against these six, and could then try to bring them to trial before the election. I believe Trump will see the election interference trial before or during the November 2024 election time-frame.
You are correct Valerie. Smith would have to obtain a superseding indictment against the co-conspirators, all of whom could then be prosecuted, naming Trump as an un-indicted co-conspirator. Given the pre-trial motions though that we can expect them to then make, any subsequent trial of them would go far past the swearing in of Trump in January, 2025, should he be re-elected. Given that Trump would shut down the case, the more practical federal route would be the issuance of a Grand Jury report before Trump is sworn in. However, if Trump is not re-elected, it would be full speed ahead on the superseding indictment even if the Supreme Court rules that Trump is immune from prosecution. Such immunity would not extend to his co-conspirators.
The Georgia case, however, could still proceed uninhibited by Trump's re-election.
L.D., I am wondering if SCOTUS would be so openly politicized that they would ignore the 11 circuit appeals court impeccably stated rejection of Trump‘s immunity claim. My sense is if that happens (SCOTUS ruling immunity), the long awaited indictment of Ginny Thomas will soon come. Tommy Tuberville, Mike Johnson and Ginny Thomas are at the top of my list as conspirators for Jan 6. If Clarence Thomas does not then resign on Ginny’s indictment, I think the American people will protest. I’m only bringing this up as I ponder your statement about the Supreme Court ruling on immunity (something that ‘we’ think is unlikely, but then we now seem to have a majority court that reverse engineers their decisions to see how they can get out of doing the right thing when it opposes Trump). When you say ‘if the Supreme Court rules that Trump is immune from prosecution,’ what would be unlikely in a balanced court becomes a truly possible ‘if’ in this one.
Hi Valere. I am still outraged that Thomas has not only not recused himself but was obviously the 5th needed vote to prevent Smith's case moving forward until the Supreme Court rules on Trump's specious immunity claim, the earliest of which would be in May, thereby giving Trump the added time he needs to stall for time until he thinks he'll be sworn in January.
Not only did SCOTUS do a solid for Trump on this case, but on the Colorado ballot case, as 3 justices noted, the hard-core far right extremists on the Court gratuitously went outside the bounds of judicial impartiality by gratuitously offering their opinion that Trump could not be barred under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment without a Congressional enabling statute. Legally, their opinions, referred to as "dicta", are worthless and are little less than shooting their mouths off to help Trump.
While I don't know if Ginny's complicity in the events surrounding Jan 6 rise to the level of criminal misconduct, they blatantly manifest not only the appearance of a conflict of interest for her husband, but an actual conflict of interest. He must recuse himself! If he doesn't, it is the responsibility of the Chief Justice to see that he does.
Hi L.D., Clarence Thomas is morally weak. Ginny is conniving - and I believe she offered her husband's influence to Mark Meadows and Donald Trump on January 6. She was so anxious to reach them, telling them over and over to 'press on' and 'don't give up.' She went to the January 6th committee (voluntarily after receiving their letter); and had no trouble claiming mea culpa and "I wish I had never sent the text messages." Of course.
Those messages are and were incriminating enough that Jack Smith can call for a Grand Jury investigation and let the Grand Jury decide if she warrants an indictment. Until then, Ginny and Clarence will continue to thumb their noses at us. And drive the motor home to Costco and home.
Your points are well taken, but I think I’d go further on Clarence and call him totally morally bankrupt. What’s worse, he’s arrogant and believes he’s untouchable in his lofty position. He knows that while he could be impeached, like Trump, the Republicans need him right where he is and the Senate would never come up with a two-thirds vote to convict.
I must say that I think it would be a stretch to successfully prosecute her. Also, Smith has a lot bigger fish to fry. I think he’s brilliant. It’s just a shame that Garland waited so long to appoint a Special Prosecutor. I think that he’ll be the one going down in the history books as the guy who dropped the ball. LDM
L.D. -- Where have you been? Well over 100 books have been written the past few years about Trump's "helpers" who have participated in one thing and then another to keep him viable to run for president again. I have read more than 50 of them (and yes, paid full hardcover price) and could give you a list two miles long of people who have aided him and another list of people who have been honest and tried to warn us of Trump's wrong-doing, going back to the time Trump was given money by his father to begin his construction dreams in Manhattan. An excellent one out now is "The Breach" by Denver Riggleman and David Cay Johnson's two books and Timothy O'Brien's "TrumpWorld" fill us in on Trump's earliest lies and forays into cheating anyone in his path. The public has been well informed.
Joyce, I have the highest respect for you, and I realize you’re doing your best to load the Civil Discourse community up with your sharp legal analysis..To which you are surpassing all expectations..But while folks do what they can chatting with the neighbors, as a country in real time we have now been threatened..that cannot be permitted.
After his Ohio threats to the nation, there are strategies that demand to be deployed to face this clear and present danger to the country..His threats are not political speech, and they should cross the line of his condition of release, it needs to be contained..He is an unhindered person threatening the country..It must be stopped immediately!
Sam, I'm worried about that, too. Until a few days ago, I had been thinking about volunteering at the polls, but his words scare me too much.
Just like you said, he is indeed a clear and present danger.
p.s. Even if something CAN be done about him, how about the millions of his cult members? Might we assume that they'll finish their "assigned tasks," with or without his guidance?
Dianne, I truly believe the majority of these people fall more in the lemming bucket than a critical thinking person..Without him they are nothing..As I understand the conditions of his release, these recent threats have violated them..
It’s Letter’s from an American.. It underscores this project 2025 and how Viktor Orban the Hungarian head of state a fascist, is and has been coordinating with these far right, fascist actually orgs such as CPAC and meeting with the Heritage Foundation, the producers of project 2025..
Why am I not surprised? Here's a scary thought, now that you mentioned Steve (gosh, I wish he'd take a bath and put on some clean clothes) Bannon's alliance with Orban. Trump hasn't decided on a VP yet, so I felt that Roger Stone would be his choice, since one's as evil as the other. Time will tell.
Thanks for the info. All the more reason to Vote Blue!!!
Brava Vickie! There is nothing to fear. Trump is broke, he is going to jail and much of his MAGA power is dissipating because they were drawn to his wealth. Now that they know he is a fraud, they are dropping away. We still have plenty of work to do to re-elect Joe Biden, elect a Blue bicameral congress and Blue up and down the ballot.
Hi Vickie, both the New York Times and Washington Post wrote this morning that Trump is unable to secure financing for Barnes behind the half of $1 billion he has been ordered to pay in the New York fraud case so he can appeal that case. If he doesn’t get these bonds in the time he has been given to do so, Leticia James can start taking his property. The bond companies will not accept real estate as collateral. Not all MAGA belong to the right wing Christian, right nationalist evangelical movement. A significant number belong to a group who would not even registered to vote in the past. There was a bump in new registrations in voting rolls from baby boomers who had not previously voted until Trump arrived as a populist promising to cut their taxes. Instead, he gained a tax cut billionaires taxes.
These conservative folks don’t care about Trump, abuse of women or his convictions. They thought he was rich, and he was going to make them rich and that didn’t happen so a significant number are disillusioned with him. That doesn’t mean they’re going to vote for Biden. But it means Trump is losing some of his base. These individuals no longer are sending him money. We have lots of work to do.
Valere, you always make me smile! Today is no exception! I'd add a smile emoji but the way my computer is being such a brat right now, I may screw it up!
It's why he's running for president, to immunize himself. And I'm not sure which Proud Boy infested local Sherrifs you expect to arrest him. The courts have shown they are spineless.
Our drawn-out legal due process is no match for the person who exploits every well-intentioned technicality for his own evil purposes. The only answer here is the ballot box. We can’t expect the courts to save us. And maybe that’s as it should be in a democratic republic. We’re in this together.
Just a note to myself using your comment (sorry) that I just read the orange facemask’s lawyers now say he can’t come up with a bond for the appeal of the $355 million judgment from NY and he should be allowed to appeal anyway or post a bond for a fraction of the amount. I wonder how the people who were in the same position from one of his uncountable frivolous lawsuits would feel about that, especially if they were bankrupted by his actions.
OMG, every time I hear that song on the radio, I picture him with his red hat, tears washing all that cheap drugstore make-up down to his white shirt, and then he curls up into the fetal position on a stage all by himself, in a stadium with nothing but empty seats.
Also, is there a website which has a TRULY simple (ie accessible to Trump supporters) description - brief, to the point - of his many crimes?
There should be a website for the following;
1. A description of clear examples of increasing dementia (including clips, properly presented, supported by statements of internationally recognized experts)
2. A SIMPLE outline of his many crimes, dating back to the 1970s, in ways anybody (a 5th grader?) can understand, including the consequences of those crimes
3. A list of never trumpers as well as former cabinet members who don’t support him (why do the Republicans always do this better than anyone else - the conservative folks, many of them Neo conservatives I have never supported, have an excellent ongoing series of articles over at the Bulwark)
4. A response to at least 20 of his most basic, most frequently repeated lies.
I don’t understand why there aren’t 100 websites like this, with TikTok shorts and YouTube channels devoted to blasting this out day after day.
Meanwhile, this is probably WAY too long, but perhaps it might inspire someone else to start collecting these things.
Some are quotes, some are comments about Trump:
“They say that there’s so much water up north that I want to have the overflow areas go into your forests and dampen your forests, because if you dampen your forests you're not gonna have these forest fires that are burning at levels that nobody’s ever seen.”
“By the way, they never report the crowd on Jan. 6. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley ... you know they ... did you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything, deleted and destroyed all of it? All of it! Because of lots of things. Like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people. Soldiers, National Guard — whatever they want. They turned it down. They don’t wanna talk about that. These are very dishonest people.”
[MAGA is the] “greatest movement … maybe in the history of any country, even Argentina…You know, Argentina, great guy. He’s a big Trump guy. He loves Trump. I love him because he loves Trump. Anybody that loves me. I like them,” Trump said.
According to Trump, a wonderful dip made of ground sesame seeds – Hummus – attacked Israel.
Immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border “don’t speak languages,”
We have languages coming into our country. We have nobody that even speaks those languages. They’re truly foreign languages,” Trump falsely insisted at the U.S. southern border on one occasion. “Who would think that we have languages that are like from the planet Mars?” he asked in another interview.
JOHN GARTNER (Psychologist and expert on dementia): signs of "semantic aphasia" … using words in the wrong way…Trump talked about "the oranges of the investigation." We saw an example of that this weekend, as well. Trump said, “We’re going to protect pro-God….” In mid-sentence, he goes blank and looks at the ceiling, then says “…context and content.”
JOHN GARTNER: Trump is bragging about passing the MOCA, a screening test for dementia, as if it made him MENSA, when it’s a test any kindergartener should pass. Specialists tell me a patient can be in steep diagnosable organic decline for an extended period before they fail the MOCA. Someone with an advanced degree from an Ivy League school, for example, has a lot of IQ points to give before they hit kindergarten level. If you pass the MOCA it certainly does not mean you’re cognitively equipped to be President of the United States. Trump can’t even name the current president of the United States. Seven times he’s said he’s running against Obama. That’s not a gaffe or joke. That’s hard clinical evidence of serious organic brain damage.
JOHN GARTNER: There are natural things that happen with aging such as occasionally using the wrong word or calling someone the wrong name because they remind you of someone you worked with. President Biden is confusing names, not people. The Dementia Care Society says “mixing up people and generations” is a sign of dementia. Recently Trump confused Nikki Haley and Nancey Pelosi, for example. He also mixed up the generations in his own family when he said his father was born in Germany, when it was his grandfather. Michael Wolff said Trump frequently didn’t recognize old friends. And most importantly Biden isn’t showing a fundamental breakdown in his ability to use language. The whataboutism narrative is that this is a race between two old men. True but one has an aging brain, and the other a dementing brain. If Trump were your relative, you would be reaching out to doctors in a state of alarm. If Joe Biden were you’re relative, you might have to remind him of things from time to time.
Trump’s plan for America’s missile defense system: “Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.… Boom. OK. Missile launch. Woosh. Boom.
"Websites tracking Trump's crimes" gives excellent summaries from the Atlantic, NY Times, Forbes and CNN.
On the other hand, almost nothing for the progress of Trump's dementia. As a psychologist who has conducted over 3000 evaluations - including the MOCA - the dementia screening test that Trump continues lie about - I agree with other experts who say his cognitive level is deteriorating fast.
I hope others reading Joyce's substack posts will contribute. This is something we can all do from our homes. Write, send this to as many people as you can.
Lefty cynics like myself have been saying for a very long time that Trump would never face a jury, let alone be convicted and sentenced. I just feel sorry for those who still believe in the rule of law and the proper administration of justice, or Jack Smith as superhero. The US court system simply doesn't have a clue (or a chance) in the face of a rich white man with a ruthless streak and a team of lawyers.
Even saying "it's up to the voters" is extremely optimistic in my view - Trump's indictments have been totally normalised, and Jan 6 is now ancient history. The election is now between two horses who are the same-same ... or so it seems ... and the media will treat it as such.
And, Trump didn’t slip through the cracks without help! I’m talking about those in charge of our judicial system and MAGA politicians! There’s plenty of complicity to go around !
To answer your question, it couldn't possibly be HIS blood. He has no blood. Never did, since he was spawned. But if he had been born like a real person, he'd have blood veins and arteries, but no blood. Those two means of "blood transportation" are so full of HATRED, there's no room for the real thing. There's also a reason why he's never had a heart attack, given his diet, his anger, hatred, and everything else negative that I'm too tired to type at this point. He has no heart, either.
If someone does "draw a blood bath," I think he should be the one to step in and see if the temperature is warm enough yet.
Thanks for telling us what to look out for in the coming week. At least we are informed. I hope others will come forward to state that they are rejecting Trump.
I used to LOVE it when Johnny Carson did Carnac. Those were even funnier than seeing him getting attacked by different animals from the San Diego Zoo.
And thank you, Joyce, for showing us that picture!!! The Tonight Show was never the same after he left. I missed him. I also overslept a few times because I didn't want to turn off the TV.
Trump's inflammatory choice of words is out there again doing its dirty work. He is charged with 4 felonies and out on pre-trial release. When will anyone put him where he can't whip things up? He is a danger to society and needs to be off the streets. So frustrating.
Bonnie, Having observed Donald Trump increasingly absorb the RNC, the Congress, and much of the judiciary, combined with the media’s failure to fulfill its role in helping people fully understand what the GOP is up to, I repeatedly have submitted that we the people are all that’s left to save our democracy. However, after reading, out of 44, that only 4 of Trump’s former cabinet secretaries support Trump’s re-election bid (Civil Discourse w/ Joyce Vance), I would submit, particularly, that the 4 generals who served in the Trump Administration—John Kelly, H.R. McMaster, Jim Mattis, and Mark Milley—protocol aside, are obligated to address the American people and reveal the full truth they witnessed about Trump throughout their tenure serving in his Administration. If we’re to defeat autocracy, we can’t afford for these generals to withhold anything they know that would reveal how, over and over again, Trump was intent on defying his Oath of Office. Speaking for myself, I will continue to amplify this obligation because, contrary to Trump’s first term when there were guardrails to curtail him, the American people would be subjected to an unleashed Trump were he re-elected.
Hi Barbara Jo, The four individuals you have named have been outspoken about Trump. Jim Mattis finally resigned after saying: "I stayed as long as I could.' He published 'Call Sign Chaos' all about Trump. When Mike Milley retired, he made a speech addressed to all service-people in which he said: "We taken an oath to the Constitution, not an individual. We don't take an oath to a king or a queen, to a tyrant or dictator or wannabe dictator." This was a jab at Trump when Trump had requested his 'loyalty' after losing the 2020 election and hand-wrote a memo circumventing the JCS to withdraw US troops from Somalia no later than December 31, 2020 and Afghanistan no later than 15 January 2021. This was detailed in Bob Woodward and Robert Costa's book "Peril." H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump). John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler. All of these folks resigned in protest and said why. Mike Milley was especially forthcoming about Trump's circumventing the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of Defense. Rex Tillerson (former secretary of state) is someone who definitely could speak more forthrightly about Trump's actions and behaviors (besides calling him a moron).
Valere, You are aware of these narratives because you have prioritized being well-informed. I would submit that most, if not all, of what you have recounted is invisible to the public-at-large. The stakes are far too great not to remedy this travesty.
Moreover, I suspect none of us have the full truth of what they witnessed under Trump. If I’m right, these omissions can’t stand.
Valare, thank you as usual for your information about these four generals! Barbara Jo is correct that most of us probably have never heard of these books. My guess is that they would be reluctant to provide more information because they respect the secrecy about military intelligence, technical secrets and troop movements so they have already said what they can say. It would be a fascinating and informative program if 60 Minutes for example could assemble them together to discuss how Trump could endanger our country if re-elected but my guess is they would decline?
Maybe FRONTLINE could examine these facts from the generals and Tillerson and Pompeo (and whoever else has pertinent information that the public "needs to know" given that we may not have any trials that convict Trump of anything).
I think we’re going to see the Jack Smith, Washington DC, trial, front and center either before November election or right during it. If I had any wish, I would hope that there is a grand jury looking at Ginny Thomas and an indictment for her that would force Clarence to resign. I would wish a grand jury looking at Tommy Tuberville, who was Trump’s mouse during January 6. Recall Trump making phone calls of “where is Tommy?” during the January 6 standoff when Tommy was hiding in the basement. Afterwards Tommy had plenty to do with upholding military appointments as a ‘too transparent’ payback from Trump.
Thank you Ira. I do agree about having a fascinating and informative program from someone like 60 minutes. My concern as always is these generals they are civilians now and unprotected. Trump‘s supporters are powerful. They reach is absolutely unimaginable. A significant number of the most prestigious, psychologist and psychiatrist reported on his state and that they thought he was sociopath and psychopath the APA disagreed, disavowed their credentials (Brandy Lee, MD, was terminated from Yale for example) and withdrew their study from publication. So when he can reach and influence, APA and institutions like Yale, he can reach civilian former generals. Trump has already given out their addresses. He is furious that they have publicly spoken against him. He gave out Tony Blinken’s address. He is giving coded messages for the MAGA to find and harm E. Jean Carroll. We have such an extraordinary atmosphere, that we have to add the safety piece before we ask people to risk themselves and their families.
These former Generals are tough. I appreciate your opinion that many of trump's supporters can motivate maga (small leters please as they are cowards) to try to inflict harm on his critics, I doubt that scares these four guys! As former Army myself, my guess is that the generals would respond "Bring It"!
Ira, To clarify, I don’t expect the generals necessarily to release new information, but simply repeatedly to ensure that what’s already been released reaches a broader audience. Accordingly, I would welcome your proposed 60-minute example.
I agree. But it should not be "one and done" for the powerful to use their power to persuade the American people. Many, many of us are writing postcards and contacting elected representatives, and giving money every single day to defeat Trump. If these people are full of character and honor and fighters for our democracy, they should be pulling out all the stops as so many of us are.
Sonya, First, I agree, like the rest of us who work every day, that the generals I referenced would have to persist in disclosing truths they had witnessed about Trump. Second, countering your exchange with Valere, I would not necessarily expect the generals to disclose truths they hadn’t already released. I simply am urging they do more to ensure already-disclosed truths reach a wider audience that includes everyday people who either haven’t read their books or haven’t read journalists’ accounts of truths they have witnessed.
Sonya, It is hardly ‘one and done’ when MAGA has found their homes, and given their families very real death threats. This is the very stuff that Mitt Romney wrote about and spoke about when he said I can afford $5,000 per day for private security for myself and my family, but the rest of the people in Congress cannot, and they are receiving the same threats. The rest of the military cannot, and they are receiving the same threats. We might be brave and say oh yes, I’m going into the middle of the street with my middle finger straight up. But when the threat is against your family, it’s different. It’s very different now for civilian, farmers soldiers, who have zero protection, and live on the same retirement salaries the rest of America does. Do you think there’s extra for private security? These former generals do not have homes on military bases with unlimited military protection. It would be like the MAGA arriving at your door, threatening your family and pets (and pets are family as well). And you do not know that these retired generals are not speaking to every private individual they come across. You do not know that they are not sitting at their own kitchen table, writing postcards. Arie A 30 year career in the military with multiple appointments to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, then, being subjected to the humiliation, mistreatment of Trump, then publicly speaking about it, and writing about it to receive MAGA at their doors with death, threats is hardly ‘one and done.’ That’s a very presumptuous and self-serving statement. We could say writing postcards representatives, while being important and extremely useful, is ‘’one and done.’ I’m saying that we shouldn’t throw slings and arrows at soldiers (and their families) who have made sacrifices for their entire career (and then received death threats afterward for speaking out). That’s misguided.
It is a good and fair point that none of us have private security, nor can most of us afford it. If my statement caused folks to feel disrespected, I will try to do better.
I agree - they have "spoken to the choir"! The "right" thing for them to do would be to PUBLICLY endorse Joe Biden and say specifically & clearly WHY!
Will they or have they? I dont know.
Maggie, While I would welcome their public endorsements of Biden (none has so far as I know), I gladly would settle for their repeatedly passing already-disclosed truths they had witnessed about Trump to unaware eligible voters who had neither read their books nor journalists’ reports of their views.
I think you meant Mark Milley. I have owned a copy of "Peril" since it was first published but haven't read it. I'm just so burned out on it all, and I have enough personal stuff going on that I have no energy left for it.
I know damn well who and what Trump is. Problem is that there are a lot of people who love him even as they also know who he is, and worse, who he wants to become.
Marycat2021 I’m right there with you. I’m managing to stay pretty well informed by the writers here on Substack. If y’all want to read a hair-raiser, read Dr Timothy Snyder’s post of yesterday. Heather Cox Richardson, Dan Rather, Jay Kuo, Greg Olear and Jeff Tiedrich are just some of the writers who have been posting some excellent Substacks and whenever it’s possible to share them, I do.
Yes, it would be helpful if those who worked in the last administration would come out publicly and as often as possible now and up to the election. With so much going on in the news these days I really think people tune it all out but we still have to keep slogging through the muck and talking to people. As Joyce always says, “We’re in this TOGETHER”(whether we want to be or not).
I'm familiar with all these writers, thank you.
Mary Cat, indeed, they are a problem. But they are never going to change. Not in this election cycle and not beyond. Who we need to change our the fence sitters and those who haven’t yet registered to vote.
I think what will save the Democrats will be independent voters who will find Trump too frightening and extreme to vote for. It's widely believed that these people will vote for Biden. Biden needs to go hell for leather against Netanyahu and bring a ceasefire to Gaza - and stop supplying Israel with weapons. He's making a lot of younger voters very angry.
Marycat2021, I recognize the younger voters are very angry. Few of them are reading history: they just see Israel's unconscionable response to Palestinian civilians. The most helpful action you and others can take is to understand that Israel was recognized under US law as a Major Non-NATO ally. We have bilateral treaties with Israel: approved by Congress in 1952, 1982, 1991 and 1994. (Biden is bound by these: he inherited them. He inherited Natanyahu, one of Trump's closest friends). Please go to the USSOS website and I think it is the military section that holds our treaties. We have three distinct treaties beginning from 1953 that Biden inherited. He cannot abrogate them. So far as Biden going 'hell for leather against Netanyahu to bring a ceasefire to Gaza' - he has done everything possible against a dictator who is supported by Russia. What Biden has done is: he sent Tony Blinken to Israel eight and the mideast times with a distinct message to Netanyahu that we want a cease fire, stop killing civilians in Gaza, we will supply aid to Gaza and the US will only accept a two state solution. Netanyahu, Putin and Trump are the three headed snake. Netanyahu thinks he can hold off Biden until after the November 3 election, which he is hoping Trump will win. Biden and Tony Blinken attended APEC together the third week in October 2023. (Netanyahu did not attend). Blinken gave Israel's foreign minister the above message: basically, '"ell Netanyahu to stop it, stop the retaliation against Gaza citizens, and the only acceptable resolution to the conflict is a two state solution with Israel having noting to do with Gaza. Nor will Hamas be on the table every again as a voting choice." Natanyahu ignored the message and ramped up his attacks on Gaza. Biden sent Blinken on three more mideast trips to meet with Egypt and other leaders to press for the above resolution. So far as the three above treaties: they supply US support and weapons to Israel (when Israel is attacked). When we have a Biden re-election, and a super majority win with a Blue super majority congress, we can withdraw the treaties with Israel and force Natanyahu to negotiate. Again, go to the US state department website, read the treaties: Biden is bound by law, and he inherited them. What we MUST do is gain a super majority Blue Congress. Biden is going to be re-elected, but we cannot withdraw treaties (or impeach Eileen Cannon btw) without a super-majority. So far as younger voters: I assume you are not younger and you may even be of an age that you recall when some of the treaties were arranged/signed/approved. Please tell the younger voters how it works: we have to abide by treaties, but with their help we can again a Blue majority congress and withdraw them (rewrite them). We can re-elect Biden who is our ONLY protection against a dictator the equivalent of Putin and Netanyahu rolled into one. Please read the treaties/agreements and get back to me with comments/suggestions. Valere
What a wonderful group of well-informed (or questioning) readers are participating in Joyce Vance's yeoman's work of Civil Discourse! I have spent well over an hour reading most of the replies, and I thank you all.
Meanwhile, (in my first reading of the morning) I request that you all learn about and support Biden's judicial nominee, the brilliant and gracious, Adeel Mangi. Judd LeGum writes a full report on this outstanding man and how the Right and Dark Money are doing all in their power to persuade Democrat Senators not to approve of his nomination because he is a Muslim. [the first American Muslim federal appellate judicial nominee]
Saw Judd's report - too bad the "anonymous" Democrats who supposedly dont support Mr. Mangi dont have the guts to put their names to that opinion. That certainly would allow their constituents to voice an opinion to them.
Thank you Valerie.
Sadly, the people who need to know this can't read.
Sounds like it could be an effective action. I hope they can do this.
Bonnie,
Trump maligned his security advisors and demeaned and maligned his generals. He had 20 some turnovers of secretaries of state, senior advisors and military generals and admirals who were distinguished battle tested officers resigned and retired early because in their words 'they could not take it any longer.' They have written tell all books, given public interviews, and given extensive interviews in which they have told all that they are able without violating security oaths (which stay with them after retirement by the way). They have received death threats from the off the rails MAGA. I believe they deserve to live as civilians and not be dragged before any public group to further risk their lives. They have told all - but the American public has not become self-educated enough to 'read.' This is just a superficial list of what these particular generals have written or given access to writers/journalists. Given that their personal lives have been destroyed by a cult leader who has told his minions to hunt and kill these generals, why would you say this sounds like an effective plan? I understand if you may not be aware of these publications or the death threats. As citizens, these officers, who have fought bravely for our freedom and the protection of our democracy, do not have funding for security. They live just the way we do.
Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
Bonnie, For what it’s worth, I plan to include this proposal in every document I submit to those who hold power. Seeing there is strength in numbers, I hope others will join me.
Hey, BJ. Who are the people who hold power that you are referring to? I'm assuming you mean senators and representatives? Anyone else?
Lynell, I imagine one might start with her or his district and state federal representatives, bearing in mind, because they get piles of mail, how you will get their attention. In my case, because a dear friend has worked closely with a lightening-rod-type state rep, my immediate plan is to get my rather comprehensive document to pass sufficient muster to get it personally delivered. Seeing my goal is to help bring recognition to a project for building a nationwide pro-democracy movement, I’m choosing this route to try and avoid my work getting lost in a pile of requests.
Good luck with your project! I have been in contact with my 2 senators and 1 rep through Jessica Craven's CWCW website. By the replies I receive from one Senator, I get the impression that I am being heard.
What I need to start doing is developing a communication with my state senator and delegate, something I have yet to do. I've only contacted the governor (a Republican) a few times, but have to up that count as well!
100%. The generals need to be strongly encouraged to abandon their cowardice, as does Mike Kelly. I read awhile back that there are a handful officials from the first Trump Administration who hate him but won't speak up. It's time to "out" them ASAP. The conservative ethos of individual freedom and liberty is proving to be quite toxic to the survival of the nation. No surprise there.
Joyce, What most troubles me is the price of not speaking out sufficiently to reach the public-at-large: a greater possibility of a dictator’s loyalists taking over media, education, the courts, and the military. (Source: Heather Cox Richardson LFAA) Franky, before reading Joyce’s Substack earlier this morning, I had no idea, that out of 44, only 4 of Trump’s former cabinet secretaries support Trump’s reelection bid.
Their apparent silence notwithstanding, we have but 7+ months to save ourselves from the MAGA- Heritage Foundation’s 2025 Project that would subject us to both a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual.
While a minor point, in your first sentence I presume you meant John Kelly, who replaced Reince Priebus as White House chief-of-staff, and who also was a general.
Yes! John Kelly. I get my MAGAs mixed up these days. Thanks for the note.
Joyce,
The four generals have spoken openly to journalists and written books. They spent decades long careers defending our country (in battle). So they indeed 'have the guts' and have proclaimed what they heard, saw and know. Every one of them has spoken out - and received death threats from don-Don's minions. They are not cowards: they would have been court martialed and thrown in prison for speaking against their commander in chief while they were on active duty. In the words of Jim Mattis: "I took it as long as I could." They all felt the same way about Trump. I've never heard anyone else call them 'cowards.'
Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
It is unfair to allude that they did not have the courage to speak: several resigned in protest and have written tell all books. It's up to the American public to read these books - and since these brave soldiers gave up careers - and stayed in service longer than some had intended - they should not be required to run around the country informing Americans about Trump's behaviors.
Thank you. I wasn't clear, but I'm thinking about all the previous times that they didn't speak up, especially John Kelly. I know he recently publicly spoke out in interview with Jim Scioutto. They're speaking up recently. At least they are now. Gen Milley is an exception as he was quite vocal at the time events happened. I was not thinking of him in my comment. Mattis I feel took too long, but that's my opinion. Thank you for your response. And thank you for naming the books and the circumstances when they did speak out. Very informative.
Hi Joyce, Ira Lechner just recommended a route for them to speak. And he pointed out that these are tough guys, who most likely would say 'bring it' to the MAGA ilk cultist pseudo bullies. They probably have soldier friends who would protect them. Mattis was very popular with his Marine troops.
That is, if the said four generals have the guts to openly proclaim what they saw, heard and know.
@A doc reads, In my view, our best shot is to persuade those with power to exert their influence on these generals who already have revealed much to journalists. The problem is that these truths have remained largely invisible to the public-at-large.
I disagree with your statement that 'those with power' should exert their influence on these generals. They have already very bravely spoken out about their experiences with Trump and have received death threats. Why should they be subjected to more threats and disruption after serving honorably for decades. Isn't it enough that they have served honorably, spoken out publicly and some have published books? If anyone needs to have influence exerted on them, it's the 'powers that be' who have sat behind their protected positions and not defended these generals when Trump demeaned and maligned them. What more do they need to do? Every one of them has stated that Trump circumvented the well established chain of command.
Valere, Were Trump to be re-elected, his loyalists would take over the military, let alone media, education, and the courts. (Source: Heather Cox Richardson LFAA) The point is that these generals comprise a mere fraction of the people who would be at great risk.
Accordingly, because preserving democracy—while we still have some semblance of it—is far easier than trying to get it back were we to lose it, I won’t hesitate to call upon everyone to do all they can, including myself, who’s still at work at nearly 5 AM my time.
I agree with all that you have said, except compelling public servants who have sacrificed for us throughout their entire careers to be exposed to additional death threats from Trump and his minions. Indeed, there is 'more.' Intelligence briefings given to members of Congress have shown that Trump, while still in office, gave nuclear secrets to Iran and when members of both parties protested, he said: "What's the problem? They will have nuclear power anyway." Intelligence officers, State Department officials, military officers: all know about Trump's atrocities. You are suggesting using four now retired generals and perhaps another admiral to be the voice to explain in detail to the American public how egregious Trump is. These now retired soldiers have all spoken out about their experiences with Trump and have received death threats. They do not have security. They do not have funding for security - and their retirements do not afford private security. And you are hoping to reach the American public with information aimed at breaking through their apathy by compelling these individuals to further risk their lives with this kind of message. The part that bothers me is you view it as these folks' 'obligation' to speak about what they know about Trump (while they have already spoken and received death threats from Trump's minions). Every single one of them knew of colleagues and other former officials who had received death threats for speaking up about don-Don. They spoke up anyway - and have written and given interviews. Trump operates just like a Mafia boss. And the MAGA minions follow him. I don't know if it is legal to 'require' a now private citizen to 'speak up' about all they know. As military officers, they swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are not 'obligated' to speak about Trump as private citizens. But even without having to be obligated or required to do so, they have spoken and written and received death threats. They are not obligated in any sense to take any more senseless risks for an American public that is too apathetic to read what they have already written. I'm all for a pro-democracy movement, but not at the expense of requiring someone to do something. The essence of democracy is choice. And you are advocating that we take away the right to choose from now private citizens as some kind of sacrifice with what will surely be more death threats in an attempt to lead their fellow citizens from apathy. I agree our situation is very serious. We who volunteer to do so have to work very hard to inform everyone we know that Trump is the greatest danger to the world in 2024 (see Economist November 17, 2024 - a special edition, written entirely on the danger of a Trump election). But not a single one of us needs to be conscripted and that includes the now private citizen generals who have given a life of service, been demeaned and belittled by Trump, have spoken out and have received death threats from don-Don's minions as he operates as a Mafia boss. If folks are afraid of Trump, they need to stay out of the public arena. And if they are not afraid work with every bit of energy they possess to defeat him.
The four generals have spoken openly to journalists and written books. They spent decades long careers defending our country (in battle). So they indeed 'have the guts' and have proclaimed what they heard, saw and know. Jim Mattis wrote an expose about Trump: ‘Call Sign Chaos’
Mike Milley, quoted in “The Divider: Trump in the White House’ Peter Baker, NYT and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser.
H.R. McMaster: wrote Battlegrounds (his own tell all book about Trump).
John Kelly spoke at length to Jim Scioutto in ‘The Return of Great Powers’ about Trump’s love for Hitler.
It is unfair to allude that they did not have the courage to speak: several resigned in protest and have written tell all books. It's up to the American public to read these books - and since these brave soldiers gave up careers - and stayed in service longer than some had intended - they should not be required to run around the country informing Americans about Trump's behaviors.
Thank you for this information. Of course these books have not crossed my information horizon but that is not a surprise. Brexit UK legacy media (save some areas covered in The Guardian) is as complicit in supporting and covering up the extremist anti democratic intent and deeds of the MAGA/Heritage Foundation corporate takeover of the UK & US state’s as that in the US.
It is tragic that they and their families and friends should be under constant threat of potential violence or assassination instigated by Trump’s abuses of power.
If Trump is re elected they will, no doubt, be at the top of his presidential hit list. I hope they are all preparing self protections for the worst case scenario unfolding after November in any manner that they can🐈⬛
Anyone who speaks loudly and publicly will be in trumps crosshairs after the election. Whether he wins or loses.
It takes corage to speak truth to power.
I wish these folks writing books would be featured weekly on TV, or in social media interviews/posts. Todays voters don't consume books like my generation.
My copy of Barbara McQuades book Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America arrives tomorrow.
Thank you Monnina, I had no idea the Heritage Foundation had reached the UK. I know the Economist published a special edition on November 17, 2023 (a special edition publication) that Trump was the greatest danger to the world in 2024. What a distinction!
If you are interested and have the time European Powell on Twitter/X is very informative on the already baked in private corporate land grabs taking place across Great Britain being facilitated by this global group of criminal privateers playing at being politicians.
Northern Ireland is still a legally contested land mass because of The Windsor Agreement leaving it protected under EU laws. Although the Reform Party under Heritage Foundation funded Ben Habib and his recently announced political partnership with a British nationalist extremist party here l, the Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV), flags the fact they they have yet to give up trying to gain an economic bridgehead on the island of Ireland. 🔥
I am for “60 Minutes” doing a Sunday night show with these men. Their stories need to be told and heard by the voters of this country! Very serious acquisitions that must be out there before voting in November! The more we know the better!
I agree. I'm hoping they're just waiting for more people to pay attention.
Maybe it's a small comfort that none of the the orange cocksplats cabinet secretaries were confirmed by congress. Just as none of his new ones would be.
Jen, I appreciate you writing. As for timing, continuing to allow Trump’s deceptions and distortions to go unanswered, in my view, is a huge mistake. Accordingly, even if the generals simply were repeatedly to ensure that truths they already had released were to reach a broader audience, that contribution would be immeasurable.
As for your other point, whether cabinet secretaries were Senate-confirmed or Acting, as long as they were Trump loyalists, the damage they could incur would be incalculable.
You are expecting cowards to do the right thing. HAH
@Anewseemliness, Were the 4 generals simply to commit to seeing that truths they already had released were to reach a broader audience, that would be an extraordinarily meaningful contribution.
At a minimum solitary confinement for the thug!
Great piece today Joyce, and I thank you for it.
Not really a beacon of sunshine and happiness though.
Frustrating, discouraging, infuriating, enraging, all words that describe my feelings at this point. Giving up is not in my DNA, but these delays are really starting to piss me off.
I belive in due process, but damn. How long will these judges allow trumps specious filings?
And don't get me started on Cannon,. Delays, paperless orders, motions denied without prejudice, setting up for an unappealable judgement. She is a disgrace, and should be removed.
Now, more than ever, we need to stay strong and committed to defeating trump at the ballot box. That he will contest the outcome is a given, but he doesn't hold the levers of power that he did in 2020.
It's always darkest before dawn. I just want to wake up from this nightmare. I'm exhausted.
I wouldn't call "blood bath" inflammatory so much as a plain threat.
Bonnie MacEvoy -- I agree ! I appreciate the time and expertise that Joyce Vance put into this and her other postings to keep us "civilians" sane, but it looks to me like Trump doesn't have to be elected president -- he is already running and ruining our country. No matter what either house of Congress brings up for a vote, Trump tells his followers how to vote and NOTHING gets done. His lawyers and Judge Cannon have tied the legal system up in knots so that perfectly reasonable charges against him are getting delayed to the point we voters feel rejected. He has taken over the Republican party so thoroughly that he decides where its money goes. He also made sure the Supreme Court is beholden to him.
He is obviously suffering dementia and yet even his family members -- Don Jr., Alec, Ivanka, Tiffany, Melanie and Barron -- are doing NOTHING to be sure he is cognizant enough to be in charge of their family assests, to say NOTHING of his being president, where he would make an ass of himself and ruin our country.
And now he has promised a "bloodbath" if he is not elected. The MAGAs are being whipped up again and I would hope the elected members on Congress and other administration people are afraid for their lives. This is an unpaid advertisement by Donald that he intends to retaliate.
We have NOTHING left except our VOTE ! For gawd sakes, VOTE !
Agree! Seeing him on video clips makes me sick. He has resorted to more gutter talk which gained the most crowd approval. This only proves what we already know about his supporters. I have had to resort to muting his videos.
I look at the “bloodbath” comment as voter intimidation. A threat if not voted for. Why is he still running around loose. Should be in jail or a mental institution.
Yours is the million dollar question!!!! Anywhere else on earth he would have been dealt with years ago!!! It is extremely demoralizing!!!!
My assumption, not knowledge, is that he has full access to blackmail material on highly placed state officials. For instance of the kind gathered by those funding Epstein’s Operations.
And found in classified documents.
Then why does he not share Epstein fate? I fear it is much more about character flaws and rigidities in positions of power.
He should be locked up pending his trials for fomenting violence at his rallies.
If he went to jail today, the bloodbath would start tomorrow. MAGA's mad right now.
I agree.
The MAGA mob is already raging. The social arena already fractured into political sectarianism by Trump’s abstract hatred and imagined grievances being broadcast daily by the legacy media. He is like a wicked Wizard of Oz with the mass media his pet flying monkeys.
It is being broadcast by Steve Bannon, former Cambridge Analytica psy ops owner on his 'War Room.' He is still pounding away that Trump won in 2020 - with the psychological warfare technique that given enough repetitions of the message, the recipient will believe it. Bannon's audience is Republican.
David, we're going to have a bloodbath no matter what happens. Whether the tangeranus wins or loses, we are being set up for it. Get ready.
MAGA's mad, I'm outraged right now.
Trump needs to be committed to prison. I was going to say a facility for the mentally ill, but that's unfair to the mentally ill. Unless tRump is removed from society and rendered unable to communicate, our country cannot heal from his toxicity.
His frivolous legal appeals are mind boggling. The special treatment he receives from the legal system is unfair to regular people.
Hi JennSH, We do not often see criminal trials 'up close.' But the alleged criminal usually receives a lot of leeway that the victim does not. This is what we are seeing with Trump - and Jack Smith and Merrick Garland are being very careful to not make mistakes. They
I agree with your voter intimidation comment!
He’s digging his own demise. We just don’t know how yet.
Thank you Joyce. I will scream it loud and I will scream it proud. We must find the courage to stand up to such outrage. This is our country, our family, our life our democracy our constitution. Please continue to help us. I for one need guidance.
Mike, While I’m no substitute for Joyce, I believe all of us are obligated to take great effort to drive home what it would mean to lose our democracy and how our way of life would change. Trump already has stated he would enact the Insurrection Act on Day 1 of his presidency. He’s already spoken about rounding up his political enemies. Accordingly, we can’t relent in urging people, whatever their reasons for remaining complacent or indecisive, to imagine what America would look like were the President to start moving the National Guard around to put down our voices, our right to protest policy with which we disagree, perhaps indefinitely detaining us. This is not without precedent. Trump had wanted to criminalize protests around Black Lives Matter for the murder of George Floyd.
Given the hour (ET), I’ve barely touched upon rights and freedoms that would be ripped away, nor have I yet mentioned women losing control of their bodies, nor what it would mean were we unable to depend on an independent judiciary (we’re already starting to see what that would look like), or depend on the rule of law, or an independent justice department, or an independent federal communications committee—all things Trump has said he would do if re-elected.
Ultimately, we have 7+ months to urge uncommitted voters to listen to the things Trump says and the people he admires. No one should doubt that whatever the freedoms we have in this country, whatever one likes about this country, dramatically would change.
45 wants us to be afraid. That shows how desperate he is. But we are all in this together. Read Heather Cox Richardson’s March 15 substack where she describes how in the 1850s we the people saved our democracy from autocracy. An incredible story we all need to know about. It might help give you strength and some calm 🇺🇸🗽🥁
In the 1850s "we the people saved our democracy from autocracy." That saving was for Whites, because my people were still living under an autocracy, better known as slavery in the 1850s. Just thought I point out that very important aspect Heather Cox Richardson left out in her 3/15 Substack.
Important to KNOW that you and anyone else whose forebears came here as slaves are certainly now among WE THE PEOPLE!
Thanks Tutone, I would also like to suggest Heather Cox Richardson's letter today which covers the scary agenda of The Heritage Foundation and Project 2025. This is REALLY scary stuff that, I beleive most people are unaware of.
Thanks Joyce, the reality that you describe I would have to blame Merrick Garland whose opening statement “we will follow the facts where they lead us” waited two years to follow the facts. He also should have pushed the Southern District of New York to immediately send out requested papers immediately. I blame both Fani Willis and Wade for not understanding the optics of their position. Going on vacations with your consultant??? Jesus, Mary , Joseph, Moses and everyone else. All we can do is vote but our judicial system is broken.
Germany 1933.
I am so there w you.
Yes, Garland waited far too long to appoint Jack Smith. Had he appointed him immediately, trump would have had at least one of his trials by now.
It's interesting everyone wants to blame Merrick Garland. How about Mitch McConnell, who wouldn't allow a vote in the House of Representatives on Trump's last impeachment because it would have passed and it would have denied Trump ever running for president again. And now McConnell has the audacity to say Trump must be made to lose this 2024 election ? ! ?
Pence did not say he wouldn't vote for Trump. He said he wouldn't "endorse" him which is different. I saw a line that he still might vote for him.
What I believe he said was that he wouldn't vote for Biden, wouldn't endorse Trump, and wouldn't reveal who he'd vote for because it's private. What a schmendrick - Yiddish for bumbler, incompetent, idiotic, and clueless - like so many other GOP politicians. He acted properly and legally to count the electoral votes on January 6 only because his legal advisors told him to.
SCHMENDRICK! a wonderful new word (I thought I learned all the Yiddish expressions from my friends in high school). BUMBLER, INCOMPETENT, IDIOTIC, AND CLUELESS!
I would drop the “r”
It rhymes with schmendrick…..
He will vote for the psychopath. He will be destroyed if he doesn't.
Sabrina - either way it doesn’t look good for him.
Well, of course.
Typical politician (inept as he is at it) speak for party over country.
Nikki - your hunch makes sense.
What a craven, contemptible coward Pence once again demonstrates himself to be, in this report.
I have 2 questions based upon the very real possibility that the Supreme Court will derail Trump being brought to trial on the January 6 insurrection before the November election. My question is based upon the need, both for the American people and for posterity, to reveal the full nature and extent of the culpability of Donald Trump, his accomplices and his co-conspirators in attempting to overthrow the valid election of Joe Biden. Even if the far ring-wing majority of the Supreme Court stretched beyond all reason to rule that Trump had absolute immunity from prosecution for crimes he committed while President, his co-defendants and co-conspirators in the insurrection should not be the beneficiaries of such largesse.
1. There is a virtual certainty that if Trump is re-elected President, he will close down all federal indictments and investigations against him, his accomplices and his co-conspirators. Even if the Supreme Court causes the trial to be delayed until after the election, is there any reason why the Special Prosecutor could not now sever him from the indictment and proceed against his co- defendants, while naming him as an unindicted co-conspirator? It is settled law that the statements of all co-conspirators made in furtherance of the conspiracy are admissible against all other co-conspirators. To proceed in this manner would cause all of the evidence against Trump and his co-conspirators to see the light of day, possibly even before the election.
2. In the alternative, for whatever the reason, if the Special Prosecutor is precluded from proceeding against Trump on the January 6 insurrection, and given the certainty that if Trump is elected he will close down all pending cases and investigations relating to him, would it be wise for the Special Prosecutor to pursue the release of a Grand Jury report that memorializes, for the sake of posterity, the relevant evidence in this case?
The above reasoning equally applies to the Georgia case. In both cases, if necessary, Trump could be severed, and the trials could proceed against his co-defendants while naming him as an un-indicted co-conspirator. Should they be convicted, their guilt will be imputed to Trump.
IF the SCOTUS goes beyond the pale and rules that Trump has complete immunity, then Biden should put him in jail immediately. He would also have complete immunity.
Brilliant!
Hi L.D., I believe the co-conspirators are still unnamed, but we think we know who they are. I' wondering if Jack Smith plans to move ahead with indictments against these six, and could then try to bring them to trial before the election. I believe Trump will see the election interference trial before or during the November 2024 election time-frame.
You are correct Valerie. Smith would have to obtain a superseding indictment against the co-conspirators, all of whom could then be prosecuted, naming Trump as an un-indicted co-conspirator. Given the pre-trial motions though that we can expect them to then make, any subsequent trial of them would go far past the swearing in of Trump in January, 2025, should he be re-elected. Given that Trump would shut down the case, the more practical federal route would be the issuance of a Grand Jury report before Trump is sworn in. However, if Trump is not re-elected, it would be full speed ahead on the superseding indictment even if the Supreme Court rules that Trump is immune from prosecution. Such immunity would not extend to his co-conspirators.
The Georgia case, however, could still proceed uninhibited by Trump's re-election.
L.D., I am wondering if SCOTUS would be so openly politicized that they would ignore the 11 circuit appeals court impeccably stated rejection of Trump‘s immunity claim. My sense is if that happens (SCOTUS ruling immunity), the long awaited indictment of Ginny Thomas will soon come. Tommy Tuberville, Mike Johnson and Ginny Thomas are at the top of my list as conspirators for Jan 6. If Clarence Thomas does not then resign on Ginny’s indictment, I think the American people will protest. I’m only bringing this up as I ponder your statement about the Supreme Court ruling on immunity (something that ‘we’ think is unlikely, but then we now seem to have a majority court that reverse engineers their decisions to see how they can get out of doing the right thing when it opposes Trump). When you say ‘if the Supreme Court rules that Trump is immune from prosecution,’ what would be unlikely in a balanced court becomes a truly possible ‘if’ in this one.
Hi Valere. I am still outraged that Thomas has not only not recused himself but was obviously the 5th needed vote to prevent Smith's case moving forward until the Supreme Court rules on Trump's specious immunity claim, the earliest of which would be in May, thereby giving Trump the added time he needs to stall for time until he thinks he'll be sworn in January.
Not only did SCOTUS do a solid for Trump on this case, but on the Colorado ballot case, as 3 justices noted, the hard-core far right extremists on the Court gratuitously went outside the bounds of judicial impartiality by gratuitously offering their opinion that Trump could not be barred under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment without a Congressional enabling statute. Legally, their opinions, referred to as "dicta", are worthless and are little less than shooting their mouths off to help Trump.
While I don't know if Ginny's complicity in the events surrounding Jan 6 rise to the level of criminal misconduct, they blatantly manifest not only the appearance of a conflict of interest for her husband, but an actual conflict of interest. He must recuse himself! If he doesn't, it is the responsibility of the Chief Justice to see that he does.
Hi L.D., Clarence Thomas is morally weak. Ginny is conniving - and I believe she offered her husband's influence to Mark Meadows and Donald Trump on January 6. She was so anxious to reach them, telling them over and over to 'press on' and 'don't give up.' She went to the January 6th committee (voluntarily after receiving their letter); and had no trouble claiming mea culpa and "I wish I had never sent the text messages." Of course.
Those messages are and were incriminating enough that Jack Smith can call for a Grand Jury investigation and let the Grand Jury decide if she warrants an indictment. Until then, Ginny and Clarence will continue to thumb their noses at us. And drive the motor home to Costco and home.
V
Your points are well taken, but I think I’d go further on Clarence and call him totally morally bankrupt. What’s worse, he’s arrogant and believes he’s untouchable in his lofty position. He knows that while he could be impeached, like Trump, the Republicans need him right where he is and the Senate would never come up with a two-thirds vote to convict.
I must say that I think it would be a stretch to successfully prosecute her. Also, Smith has a lot bigger fish to fry. I think he’s brilliant. It’s just a shame that Garland waited so long to appoint a Special Prosecutor. I think that he’ll be the one going down in the history books as the guy who dropped the ball. LDM
I'm copying and pasting this to myself so that I can take it in later. [along with my new Yiddish word, "schmendrick"]
Smendrick is a wonderful word; I guarantee you will get a bemused reaction whenever you use it!
L.D. -- Where have you been? Well over 100 books have been written the past few years about Trump's "helpers" who have participated in one thing and then another to keep him viable to run for president again. I have read more than 50 of them (and yes, paid full hardcover price) and could give you a list two miles long of people who have aided him and another list of people who have been honest and tried to warn us of Trump's wrong-doing, going back to the time Trump was given money by his father to begin his construction dreams in Manhattan. An excellent one out now is "The Breach" by Denver Riggleman and David Cay Johnson's two books and Timothy O'Brien's "TrumpWorld" fill us in on Trump's earliest lies and forays into cheating anyone in his path. The public has been well informed.
Joyce, I have the highest respect for you, and I realize you’re doing your best to load the Civil Discourse community up with your sharp legal analysis..To which you are surpassing all expectations..But while folks do what they can chatting with the neighbors, as a country in real time we have now been threatened..that cannot be permitted.
After his Ohio threats to the nation, there are strategies that demand to be deployed to face this clear and present danger to the country..His threats are not political speech, and they should cross the line of his condition of release, it needs to be contained..He is an unhindered person threatening the country..It must be stopped immediately!
Sam, I'm worried about that, too. Until a few days ago, I had been thinking about volunteering at the polls, but his words scare me too much.
Just like you said, he is indeed a clear and present danger.
p.s. Even if something CAN be done about him, how about the millions of his cult members? Might we assume that they'll finish their "assigned tasks," with or without his guidance?
Dianne, I truly believe the majority of these people fall more in the lemming bucket than a critical thinking person..Without him they are nothing..As I understand the conditions of his release, these recent threats have violated them..
What’s troubling I don’t recall Joyce making this point..And there is another troubling issue that may be a State Department and DOJ issue....Read this https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/march-17-2024?r=ct95&utm_medium=ios
It’s Letter’s from an American.. It underscores this project 2025 and how Viktor Orban the Hungarian head of state a fascist, is and has been coordinating with these far right, fascist actually orgs such as CPAC and meeting with the Heritage Foundation, the producers of project 2025..
Steve Bannon left his position at the White House in 2017 and went directly to work with Orban.
Why am I not surprised? Here's a scary thought, now that you mentioned Steve (gosh, I wish he'd take a bath and put on some clean clothes) Bannon's alliance with Orban. Trump hasn't decided on a VP yet, so I felt that Roger Stone would be his choice, since one's as evil as the other. Time will tell.
Thanks for the info. All the more reason to Vote Blue!!!
Brava Vickie! There is nothing to fear. Trump is broke, he is going to jail and much of his MAGA power is dissipating because they were drawn to his wealth. Now that they know he is a fraud, they are dropping away. We still have plenty of work to do to re-elect Joe Biden, elect a Blue bicameral congress and Blue up and down the ballot.
Hi Vickie, both the New York Times and Washington Post wrote this morning that Trump is unable to secure financing for Barnes behind the half of $1 billion he has been ordered to pay in the New York fraud case so he can appeal that case. If he doesn’t get these bonds in the time he has been given to do so, Leticia James can start taking his property. The bond companies will not accept real estate as collateral. Not all MAGA belong to the right wing Christian, right nationalist evangelical movement. A significant number belong to a group who would not even registered to vote in the past. There was a bump in new registrations in voting rolls from baby boomers who had not previously voted until Trump arrived as a populist promising to cut their taxes. Instead, he gained a tax cut billionaires taxes.
These conservative folks don’t care about Trump, abuse of women or his convictions. They thought he was rich, and he was going to make them rich and that didn’t happen so a significant number are disillusioned with him. That doesn’t mean they’re going to vote for Biden. But it means Trump is losing some of his base. These individuals no longer are sending him money. We have lots of work to do.
Valere, you always make me smile! Today is no exception! I'd add a smile emoji but the way my computer is being such a brat right now, I may screw it up!
Vickie, I do too!
Vickie, I'll follow your advice. I'll do it DESPITE my fears. He's just a big bully anyhow!
Absolutely Dianne!! You are a woman warrior! I am very proud of you! You are in his Substack for a reason💙
That's a good idea. Thanks!
It's why he's running for president, to immunize himself. And I'm not sure which Proud Boy infested local Sherrifs you expect to arrest him. The courts have shown they are spineless.
Our drawn-out legal due process is no match for the person who exploits every well-intentioned technicality for his own evil purposes. The only answer here is the ballot box. We can’t expect the courts to save us. And maybe that’s as it should be in a democratic republic. We’re in this together.
We may be all in this together but those of us who are marginalized are at much greater risk.
Agreed!!!
Just a note to myself using your comment (sorry) that I just read the orange facemask’s lawyers now say he can’t come up with a bond for the appeal of the $355 million judgment from NY and he should be allowed to appeal anyway or post a bond for a fraction of the amount. I wonder how the people who were in the same position from one of his uncountable frivolous lawsuits would feel about that, especially if they were bankrupted by his actions.
To be clear, Pence said he wouldn't endorse Trump, not that he wouldn't vote for him. That's typical Republican double talk.
🎶 No one knows what's like to be Bad man,
... to be the Sad man
[ Under Orange hair ]
No one knows what's like.
... to be hated to be fated
to tell only LIES!
🎶 But, my dreams , they aren't as empty ...
As my conscience seems to be ...
I have only [weeks] only lonely ...
My love is VENGEANCE, that's never free. 🎶
And, tffg is way past "his jail time" Hat tip to Jimmy Kimmel & Peter Townsend
OMG, every time I hear that song on the radio, I picture him with his red hat, tears washing all that cheap drugstore make-up down to his white shirt, and then he curls up into the fetal position on a stage all by himself, in a stadium with nothing but empty seats.
What's that expression about brilliant minds?
Thank you Dianne. I hope Peter 🎸 does not mind the lyric change.
Methinks he'd be fine...
Me, too. He may enjoy a good laugh as much as we did.
Bryan, I forgot to say that I actually like YOUR version much better.
Also, is there a website which has a TRULY simple (ie accessible to Trump supporters) description - brief, to the point - of his many crimes?
There should be a website for the following;
1. A description of clear examples of increasing dementia (including clips, properly presented, supported by statements of internationally recognized experts)
2. A SIMPLE outline of his many crimes, dating back to the 1970s, in ways anybody (a 5th grader?) can understand, including the consequences of those crimes
3. A list of never trumpers as well as former cabinet members who don’t support him (why do the Republicans always do this better than anyone else - the conservative folks, many of them Neo conservatives I have never supported, have an excellent ongoing series of articles over at the Bulwark)
4. A response to at least 20 of his most basic, most frequently repeated lies.
I don’t understand why there aren’t 100 websites like this, with TikTok shorts and YouTube channels devoted to blasting this out day after day.
This Seth Myers clip is great:
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxKbPUlVPwscXDyP5omKOSzAtUJuKKJU0E
Thanks, it's a great one.
Meanwhile, this is probably WAY too long, but perhaps it might inspire someone else to start collecting these things.
Some are quotes, some are comments about Trump:
“They say that there’s so much water up north that I want to have the overflow areas go into your forests and dampen your forests, because if you dampen your forests you're not gonna have these forest fires that are burning at levels that nobody’s ever seen.”
“By the way, they never report the crowd on Jan. 6. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley ... you know they ... did you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything, deleted and destroyed all of it? All of it! Because of lots of things. Like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people. Soldiers, National Guard — whatever they want. They turned it down. They don’t wanna talk about that. These are very dishonest people.”
[MAGA is the] “greatest movement … maybe in the history of any country, even Argentina…You know, Argentina, great guy. He’s a big Trump guy. He loves Trump. I love him because he loves Trump. Anybody that loves me. I like them,” Trump said.
According to Trump, a wonderful dip made of ground sesame seeds – Hummus – attacked Israel.
Immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border “don’t speak languages,”
We have languages coming into our country. We have nobody that even speaks those languages. They’re truly foreign languages,” Trump falsely insisted at the U.S. southern border on one occasion. “Who would think that we have languages that are like from the planet Mars?” he asked in another interview.
JOHN GARTNER (Psychologist and expert on dementia): signs of "semantic aphasia" … using words in the wrong way…Trump talked about "the oranges of the investigation." We saw an example of that this weekend, as well. Trump said, “We’re going to protect pro-God….” In mid-sentence, he goes blank and looks at the ceiling, then says “…context and content.”
JOHN GARTNER: Trump is bragging about passing the MOCA, a screening test for dementia, as if it made him MENSA, when it’s a test any kindergartener should pass. Specialists tell me a patient can be in steep diagnosable organic decline for an extended period before they fail the MOCA. Someone with an advanced degree from an Ivy League school, for example, has a lot of IQ points to give before they hit kindergarten level. If you pass the MOCA it certainly does not mean you’re cognitively equipped to be President of the United States. Trump can’t even name the current president of the United States. Seven times he’s said he’s running against Obama. That’s not a gaffe or joke. That’s hard clinical evidence of serious organic brain damage.
JOHN GARTNER: There are natural things that happen with aging such as occasionally using the wrong word or calling someone the wrong name because they remind you of someone you worked with. President Biden is confusing names, not people. The Dementia Care Society says “mixing up people and generations” is a sign of dementia. Recently Trump confused Nikki Haley and Nancey Pelosi, for example. He also mixed up the generations in his own family when he said his father was born in Germany, when it was his grandfather. Michael Wolff said Trump frequently didn’t recognize old friends. And most importantly Biden isn’t showing a fundamental breakdown in his ability to use language. The whataboutism narrative is that this is a race between two old men. True but one has an aging brain, and the other a dementing brain. If Trump were your relative, you would be reaching out to doctors in a state of alarm. If Joe Biden were you’re relative, you might have to remind him of things from time to time.
Trump’s plan for America’s missile defense system: “Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.… Boom. OK. Missile launch. Woosh. Boom.
Morning Joe does some of that. I too hope others will follow.
Here's a great clip showing dementia:
https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1767279721774244167
Thanks.
I just tried searching:
"Websites tracking Trump's crimes" gives excellent summaries from the Atlantic, NY Times, Forbes and CNN.
On the other hand, almost nothing for the progress of Trump's dementia. As a psychologist who has conducted over 3000 evaluations - including the MOCA - the dementia screening test that Trump continues lie about - I agree with other experts who say his cognitive level is deteriorating fast.
https://www.salon.com/2024/03/14/experts-are-desperate-to-warn-the-public-hundreds-sign-dr-john-gartners-dementia-petition/ This is a petition for mental health experts (I'm not technically an expert in geriatric issues so I wouldn't be qualified to sign this) to sign.
There need to be collections of Trump's current lies. My initial search turned up the Washington Post and a number of others summarizing his 4 years in office, but very little current. Here's one from the New Yorker - I don't think it will be behind a paywall: https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/i-listened-to-trumps-rambling-unhinged-vituperative-georgia-rally-and-so-should-you
I hope others reading Joyce's substack posts will contribute. This is something we can all do from our homes. Write, send this to as many people as you can.
Personally I feel that if Fani agreed to wear a scarlet letter the Orange jackass might be satisfied enough to shut up about her…….nah.
Lefty cynics like myself have been saying for a very long time that Trump would never face a jury, let alone be convicted and sentenced. I just feel sorry for those who still believe in the rule of law and the proper administration of justice, or Jack Smith as superhero. The US court system simply doesn't have a clue (or a chance) in the face of a rich white man with a ruthless streak and a team of lawyers.
Even saying "it's up to the voters" is extremely optimistic in my view - Trump's indictments have been totally normalised, and Jan 6 is now ancient history. The election is now between two horses who are the same-same ... or so it seems ... and the media will treat it as such.
Merrick Garland needs to take a lot of the blame.
And, Trump didn’t slip through the cracks without help! I’m talking about those in charge of our judicial system and MAGA politicians! There’s plenty of complicity to go around !
The rest of us can take our share of the blame as well! Too much sleepwalking and the avoidance of reality!
"now if I don’t get elected … it’s going to be a bloodbath for the country.” He didn't say whose blood... maybe he meant his blood. Is he prescient?
Wonder how big the crowd size will be at his celebration of life?
I'd go just to jump up and down for joy. Might be lonely, which would be fine with me!
To answer your question, it couldn't possibly be HIS blood. He has no blood. Never did, since he was spawned. But if he had been born like a real person, he'd have blood veins and arteries, but no blood. Those two means of "blood transportation" are so full of HATRED, there's no room for the real thing. There's also a reason why he's never had a heart attack, given his diet, his anger, hatred, and everything else negative that I'm too tired to type at this point. He has no heart, either.
If someone does "draw a blood bath," I think he should be the one to step in and see if the temperature is warm enough yet.
Ouch
Jen, you can tell that he brings out the worst in me.
Hope so!
Thanks for telling us what to look out for in the coming week. At least we are informed. I hope others will come forward to state that they are rejecting Trump.
Yes, and do so in the mainstream media, loudly!!
We might just could use some of Carnac’s expertise right now in dealing with the Orange narcissistic psychopath!
I used to LOVE it when Johnny Carson did Carnac. Those were even funnier than seeing him getting attacked by different animals from the San Diego Zoo.
And thank you, Joyce, for showing us that picture!!! The Tonight Show was never the same after he left. I missed him. I also overslept a few times because I didn't want to turn off the TV.
He was so funny.
Watching Johnny was wonderful therapy after a difficult day! You could step back from reality for a few minutes!
That is so true! Wish we had a VCR back then. We did have a Beta Max but that might have also been too late to record them.