What We Learned from Arraignment Not a lot. Arraignment is usually perfunctory, and Trump’s was no exception. The defendant pleaded not guilty. He was released on his own recognizance—that means he didn’t have to post a bond. It seems like a pretty safe bet that someone who has the Secret Service guarding them 24/7 isn’t going to slip quietly out of the country.
I like “Vote Like a Juror” During Watergate, I drew a sign and put it on my car “I didn’t Vote for Him Did You.” That was the only time I put a political message on my car. I was younger back then and naive.
While concentrating on the text, it would have been criminal to ignore Joyce's title, 'Chickens Come Home to Roost' and Mike Luckovich's cartoon of the birds roosting in Trump's hair.
'The chickens come home to roost'
What does it mean?
'Bad deeds or words return to discomfort their perpetrator.'
'What's the origin of the phrase 'The chickens come home to roost'?'
'The notion of bad deeds, specifically curses, coming back to haunt their originator is long established in the English language and was expressed in print as early as 1390, when Geoffrey Chaucer used it in The Parson's Tale:'
'And ofte tyme swich cursynge wrongfully retorneth agayn to hym that curseth, as a bryd that retorneth agayn to his owene nest.'
'The allusion that was usually made was to a bird returning to its nest at nightfall, which would have been a familiar one to a medieval audience. Other allusions to unwelcome returns were also made, as in the Elizabethan play The lamentable and true tragedie of Arden of Feversham, 1592:'
'For curses are like arrowes shot upright, Which falling down light on the suters [shooter's] head.'
'Chickens didn't enter the scene until the 19th century when a fuller version of the phrase was used as a motto on the title page of Robert Southey's poem The Curse of Kehama, 1810:
"Curses are like young chicken: they always come home to roost."
This extended version is still in use, notably in the USA. (phrases.org.) See link below.
Joyce Vance solved the DOJ 's criminal case against Trump with chickens.
Now we know the true nature of Joyce's relationship with her chickens.
I agree, Ally. When the Mueller Report was released, the spin on what it said was...spin. Even reading the redacted version helped me form my own opinion rather than what the spinners were saying.
But a good second choice is having Joyce Vance, HCR, and Robert Hubbell give us their interpretations. So, I'm good with that.
But like us, they won't have direct knowledge of the trial and so will be able only to offer us their wise commentary on reports they and we will be reading. This historically significant trial should be livestreamed. I wonder if Chief Injustice Roberts would respond favorably to, for instance, a Change.org or a MoveOn.org petition. Oh, never mind, silly me.
Hey, Mim. Here's an email link to SCOTUS if you want to contact them and advocate for having tv coverage of the trial. Several of us have already sent their requests. I think this link is on Joyce's page. Perhaps you missed it.
What percentage of Americans want to see the proceedings of this criminal case by the DOJ against Trump -- that's a 'question', which doesn't warrant a question mark. So what -- we're not going to see the case, Ally.
As to the roosting chickens, I loved seeing them in Trump's hair. Joyce was brilliant to use it as her title. That's the verdict he deserves right now.
Fern McBride (NYC): I love your literary allusions and learn from them, being myself one who reads literature daily, like Harold Bloom (late of Yale), who made of literature "my Talmud."
Thank you! Almost like entries out of the Oxford English Dictionary (OED).
This is so complex! I look forward to your guidance as it all unfolds; you make it if not easy to understand at least, for me, a glimpse, a window into the world of federal prosecutions and how they work. Thank you!
Yes, excellent point Dianne, as for many I suspect.not only is the principle so very important but also the myriads of blurred lines this insidious abuse has caused. Over time a thousand cuts which made bleeding the very life blood out of America near accepted...BUT...in the reveal we get a chance to admit our mistakes HOPEFULLY correcting them . Never a more worthy headline is made than ‘I made a mistake, sorry won’t do that again’ . It’s The Letters, The Civil Discourse , The Hopium, Charley, Ruth the many etcs ....who daily give us clarification and whose efforts can right the ship , but VOTING 💙 is going to be the final chord struck in ‘24 , eluded to in ‘20, ‘22 and ever be vigilant thereafter sisters, brothers...it’s NOT to ever be taken for granted ....again💙🫵🤝
I hadn’t even thought about us being entitled to see this trial happening in real time - we the people are the ones he put in grave danger by giving others access to these boxes of documents he stole. We deserve to watch him go down, or see for ourselves why he DOESN’T go down. Thanks Joyce for calling it to Chief Justice’s attention. I hope he has an open mind about this.
It would be interesting to watch, especially to keep an eye on Aileen. But it's also a political tinderbox. I would not want to be a juror in this trial if I had to deal with news cameras showing my face to the whole country.
Thanks, Professor. Another excellent presentation on criminal law and procedure. My friends, lawyer and non-lawyer alike (many of whom are now subscribers) love it, or so they tell me. Keep up the great work.
You're the best. Trump's delay technique seems to work best when he's faced with only one threat at a time. If he pushes for delay here, it gives Smith more time to finish up the 1/6 indictment (DC district court) and get that voted out. Also, Bragg and Willis will take advantage of any lull in the Southern Florida District to advance their cases. I expect Trump will try to move the Georgia case into Federal court under 28 USC 1442 to delay Georgia, but then the other three cases can still move forward. I doubt Bragg/Willis will observe the BS DOJ OGC opinions on prosecuting a sitting president or pursuing a criminal matter within 6 weeks of an election. Also, a hung jury in Florida--a very real possibility--will just motivate the jurors in DC, GA, and Manhattan to look for a conviction.
I personally would be devastated if we, the people, would not be privy to these trial proceedings. After all, we witnessed and were subjected to quite a lot of violence, hatred, and lies for the many years Fake 45 was in power. We absolutely deserve a front-row seat at this historic event. Should anyone want to write or make a call to the Chief Justice, the address and phone number are as follows:
If Nauta were smart, he'd roll on Trump right now and save himself the grief of having Trump throw him under the bus down the road, which he will inevitably do. Just ask Michael Cohen how that Trumpian Modus Operandi works.
Oh, and we also found out about another defense: "I mixed in a lot of clothes in those boxes, and I'm just a busy man who just didn't have the time to go through them all." It's really hilarious what happens when he opens his mouth. All Jack Smith has to do is push record on the TV and his case is automatically made even better.
I have read hundreds (if not thousands) of charging documents in my career, and this has to be one of the tightest, most ironclad and airtight indictments I've ever seen. They call this a speaking indictment, but it does not "speak," so much as it shouts, and right now it's shouting "guilty as charged."
This is a lot to digest in one sitting Joyce. It seems as though for every zig there is at least one, if not more, zags especially since there is so much to this indictment. I’m delighted that you have got this Substack going so the information we get will be solid. No hyperbole, no breathless breaking news, thank goodness! I appreciate you for all you do as well as your chicken breaks. By the way, the illustration is perfect.
Is there a strategy if we started a chain letter/call-in campaign to get video in the courtroom... senators? Roberts? Biden? Newspapers?... we each ask 10 people to call/write?
"...there’s no way to convey the nuance like letting people watch the trial. Most courtroom proceedings are open to the public. Americans shouldn’t be excluded from the most important national courtroom because they can’t be physically present..."
Will public pressure work, and upon whom? Do we write our congressman, to the Chief Justice, or to the 11th Circuit? Snail mail, Twitter, FB, email? If you think letters would work, informing us to whom and where to address them might put us to good purpose and get them thinking.
Thanks again Joyce for the details. After watching a lot of the drama leading up to the todays arrest and arraignment, I am glad that the number of MAGAS were less than was predicted. I take your lead that cameras need to be allowed in this unprecedented case in our nations history. Count me as another person that will write a letter regarding that need if pointed in the right direction. Love the illustration of the chickens coming home to roost. Hopefully the next chick pics are your own. Prayers and continued peace to all....
Thank you, Joyce, for your detailed explanations on what's happening during this process. I must say, I was excited for a moment that you might have posted a few pics of your chickens based on your subject line, but the cartoon of chickens roosting on tfg was amusing at least. Please get some rest! Looking forward to seeing actual chickens in a future issue. 🐔❤
Going to school with you at the podium is always a good thing, Joyce, and fun to boot.
Go over to my Substack and I'll get my address to you.
I like “Vote Like a Juror” During Watergate, I drew a sign and put it on my car “I didn’t Vote for Him Did You.” That was the only time I put a political message on my car. I was younger back then and naive.
How can I get one? Love it!
Beautiful sable avatar😊
Someone is violating something.
While concentrating on the text, it would have been criminal to ignore Joyce's title, 'Chickens Come Home to Roost' and Mike Luckovich's cartoon of the birds roosting in Trump's hair.
'The chickens come home to roost'
What does it mean?
'Bad deeds or words return to discomfort their perpetrator.'
'What's the origin of the phrase 'The chickens come home to roost'?'
'The notion of bad deeds, specifically curses, coming back to haunt their originator is long established in the English language and was expressed in print as early as 1390, when Geoffrey Chaucer used it in The Parson's Tale:'
'And ofte tyme swich cursynge wrongfully retorneth agayn to hym that curseth, as a bryd that retorneth agayn to his owene nest.'
'The allusion that was usually made was to a bird returning to its nest at nightfall, which would have been a familiar one to a medieval audience. Other allusions to unwelcome returns were also made, as in the Elizabethan play The lamentable and true tragedie of Arden of Feversham, 1592:'
'For curses are like arrowes shot upright, Which falling down light on the suters [shooter's] head.'
'Chickens didn't enter the scene until the 19th century when a fuller version of the phrase was used as a motto on the title page of Robert Southey's poem The Curse of Kehama, 1810:
"Curses are like young chicken: they always come home to roost."
This extended version is still in use, notably in the USA. (phrases.org.) See link below.
Joyce Vance solved the DOJ 's criminal case against Trump with chickens.
Now we know the true nature of Joyce's relationship with her chickens.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/chickens-come-home-to-roost.html
I loved reading the Chaucer! Thanks for your deep dive into the matter of chickens coming home to roost.
I have to say that even if it isn't broadcast live, to have video recordings of this proceeding would be a really, really good idea.
I agree, Ally. When the Mueller Report was released, the spin on what it said was...spin. Even reading the redacted version helped me form my own opinion rather than what the spinners were saying.
But a good second choice is having Joyce Vance, HCR, and Robert Hubbell give us their interpretations. So, I'm good with that.
But like us, they won't have direct knowledge of the trial and so will be able only to offer us their wise commentary on reports they and we will be reading. This historically significant trial should be livestreamed. I wonder if Chief Injustice Roberts would respond favorably to, for instance, a Change.org or a MoveOn.org petition. Oh, never mind, silly me.
Hey, Mim. Here's an email link to SCOTUS if you want to contact them and advocate for having tv coverage of the trial. Several of us have already sent their requests. I think this link is on Joyce's page. Perhaps you missed it.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/contact/contact_pio.aspx
Thanks, Lynell, but I read this comment by MaryCat2021 and am wondering whether writing to them via the link you just shared would do any good either.
"The judge won't see it. It will be filed away as an ex parte communication from a non-party to the case trying to influence the outcome of the case."
Okay, Mim. Thanks for letting me know.
What percentage of Americans want to see the proceedings of this criminal case by the DOJ against Trump -- that's a 'question', which doesn't warrant a question mark. So what -- we're not going to see the case, Ally.
As to the roosting chickens, I loved seeing them in Trump's hair. Joyce was brilliant to use it as her title. That's the verdict he deserves right now.
Those are Joyce’s chickens! What poetic irony!
Fern, you, like Joyce, are a treasure. I value your input. Thank you.
Delightful😉
Excellent.😁
Fern McBride (NYC): I love your literary allusions and learn from them, being myself one who reads literature daily, like Harold Bloom (late of Yale), who made of literature "my Talmud."
Thank you! Almost like entries out of the Oxford English Dictionary (OED).
Armand, an ode like response on Civil Discourse, I'm laughing and blushing at the same time. Thank you.
This is so complex! I look forward to your guidance as it all unfolds; you make it if not easy to understand at least, for me, a glimpse, a window into the world of federal prosecutions and how they work. Thank you!
Yes, excellent point Dianne, as for many I suspect.not only is the principle so very important but also the myriads of blurred lines this insidious abuse has caused. Over time a thousand cuts which made bleeding the very life blood out of America near accepted...BUT...in the reveal we get a chance to admit our mistakes HOPEFULLY correcting them . Never a more worthy headline is made than ‘I made a mistake, sorry won’t do that again’ . It’s The Letters, The Civil Discourse , The Hopium, Charley, Ruth the many etcs ....who daily give us clarification and whose efforts can right the ship , but VOTING 💙 is going to be the final chord struck in ‘24 , eluded to in ‘20, ‘22 and ever be vigilant thereafter sisters, brothers...it’s NOT to ever be taken for granted ....again💙🫵🤝
Thank you Joyce for all that you do and for making all of this understandable to us lay people.
I hadn’t even thought about us being entitled to see this trial happening in real time - we the people are the ones he put in grave danger by giving others access to these boxes of documents he stole. We deserve to watch him go down, or see for ourselves why he DOESN’T go down. Thanks Joyce for calling it to Chief Justice’s attention. I hope he has an open mind about this.
I sent a personal letter to the Justice requesting it. No phone comment line at the Supreme Court, snail mail only.
Supreme Court of the United States
1 First Street, NE
Washington, DC 20543
Send a letter?
Just noticed the comment below. @Marlene, pleased to meet you!
The judge won't see it. It will be filed away as an ex parte communication from a non-party to the case trying to influence the outcome of the case.
It would be interesting to watch, especially to keep an eye on Aileen. But it's also a political tinderbox. I would not want to be a juror in this trial if I had to deal with news cameras showing my face to the whole country.
They could have cameras but keep only the jurors hidden.
The jurors in the oJ Simpson trial were never shown on camera for that trial. ......
And that reason right there might put the kibosh to cameras. Remember the secrecy around the jury in the sexual assault case earlier.
Thank you, Annamarie. I will write today.
Thanks, Professor. Another excellent presentation on criminal law and procedure. My friends, lawyer and non-lawyer alike (many of whom are now subscribers) love it, or so they tell me. Keep up the great work.
You're the best. Trump's delay technique seems to work best when he's faced with only one threat at a time. If he pushes for delay here, it gives Smith more time to finish up the 1/6 indictment (DC district court) and get that voted out. Also, Bragg and Willis will take advantage of any lull in the Southern Florida District to advance their cases. I expect Trump will try to move the Georgia case into Federal court under 28 USC 1442 to delay Georgia, but then the other three cases can still move forward. I doubt Bragg/Willis will observe the BS DOJ OGC opinions on prosecuting a sitting president or pursuing a criminal matter within 6 weeks of an election. Also, a hung jury in Florida--a very real possibility--will just motivate the jurors in DC, GA, and Manhattan to look for a conviction.
I personally would be devastated if we, the people, would not be privy to these trial proceedings. After all, we witnessed and were subjected to quite a lot of violence, hatred, and lies for the many years Fake 45 was in power. We absolutely deserve a front-row seat at this historic event. Should anyone want to write or make a call to the Chief Justice, the address and phone number are as follows:
Supreme Court of the United States
1 First Street, NE
Washington, DC 20543
Telephone: 202-479-3000
Thanks, Marlene. Here's the email contact:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/contact/contact_pio.aspx
Thank you! I just sent a request for televised hearings.
I just sent my request also. Thank you!
Thank you! Just sent my request.
Thank you, Marlene.
If Nauta were smart, he'd roll on Trump right now and save himself the grief of having Trump throw him under the bus down the road, which he will inevitably do. Just ask Michael Cohen how that Trumpian Modus Operandi works.
Oh, and we also found out about another defense: "I mixed in a lot of clothes in those boxes, and I'm just a busy man who just didn't have the time to go through them all." It's really hilarious what happens when he opens his mouth. All Jack Smith has to do is push record on the TV and his case is automatically made even better.
I have read hundreds (if not thousands) of charging documents in my career, and this has to be one of the tightest, most ironclad and airtight indictments I've ever seen. They call this a speaking indictment, but it does not "speak," so much as it shouts, and right now it's shouting "guilty as charged."
Agreed. It shouts like a masterful short story: lean and taut, and what isn't said is just as interesting as what is said.
This is a lot to digest in one sitting Joyce. It seems as though for every zig there is at least one, if not more, zags especially since there is so much to this indictment. I’m delighted that you have got this Substack going so the information we get will be solid. No hyperbole, no breathless breaking news, thank goodness! I appreciate you for all you do as well as your chicken breaks. By the way, the illustration is perfect.
That cartoon is classic Mike Luckovich.
Well he nailed him.
Is there a strategy if we started a chain letter/call-in campaign to get video in the courtroom... senators? Roberts? Biden? Newspapers?... we each ask 10 people to call/write?
Done.
"Americans shouldn’t be excluded from the most important national courtroom because they can’t be physically present in Florida during the trial." 💯
The damage of not allowing us to watch the arraignment has already been done. He controlled the narrative from the second it was over.
He turned it into a spectacle like he always does.
"...there’s no way to convey the nuance like letting people watch the trial. Most courtroom proceedings are open to the public. Americans shouldn’t be excluded from the most important national courtroom because they can’t be physically present..."
Will public pressure work, and upon whom? Do we write our congressman, to the Chief Justice, or to the 11th Circuit? Snail mail, Twitter, FB, email? If you think letters would work, informing us to whom and where to address them might put us to good purpose and get them thinking.
I hope Joyce reads your comment, Bonnie, and answers your good questions.
Thanks again Joyce for the details. After watching a lot of the drama leading up to the todays arrest and arraignment, I am glad that the number of MAGAS were less than was predicted. I take your lead that cameras need to be allowed in this unprecedented case in our nations history. Count me as another person that will write a letter regarding that need if pointed in the right direction. Love the illustration of the chickens coming home to roost. Hopefully the next chick pics are your own. Prayers and continued peace to all....
Thank you, Joyce, for your detailed explanations on what's happening during this process. I must say, I was excited for a moment that you might have posted a few pics of your chickens based on your subject line, but the cartoon of chickens roosting on tfg was amusing at least. Please get some rest! Looking forward to seeing actual chickens in a future issue. 🐔❤
Thanks again Joyce. Your voice is what our Democracy needs to survive. We are grateful for your diligence 😉