It was a hot bench. A couple of minutes into their prepared arguments, the lawyers for both Trump and then the Special Counsel’s office were interrupted by judges with questions. Lots of them and rapid fire. For appellate lawyers, it’s always a pleasant jolt of adrenaline when this happens; at least that’s how I viewed it. It means the judges are prepared and engaged—they’ve digested the briefs, reviewed the record, and identified the pressure points in each side’s arguments. Especially when your case is solid, you welcome a hot bench.
Thank you for the story about President Carter. I was just commenting on how he has been such a model of a good person. You just reinforced that image even more.
I voted for Carter, and I thought him to be a good person with appallingly bad judgment in his appointment of friends who were not so good or so honest as his advisors. They let him down and reflected poorly on him.
Considering the mess President Carter inherited from Nixon & Ford, and as biased as I am, I don't think some of his choices were that bad. Like every president before him, and many after him, he was surrounded by some who had their own agenda; the interests of the country be damned.
It's easy, I think, to take a revisionist position on past administrations (as I did above on the catastrophic Nixon & Ford presidencies) and say that they are bad. Historically, however, President Carter still ranks ahead Nixon & Ford(https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall), and light years above the Orange Moron, er, Mr. Trump. Despite the fact that President Carter couldn't get a break from the media, his presidency looks better by the day...at least to me.
FP, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was simply musing about his greatest weakness in trusting his friends from Georgia to be as honest as he was himself. The many scandals early in his administration made folks distrust his judgment and ability to govern.
I did, too. I thought Ford was a decent man and didn't know Carter very well. There were times in Carter's presidency that I wanted to sit him down and have a little talk with him, but in 1980 there was no question that he was the better man. He has proven that many times over.
When I look back at all the presidents in my time, Jimmy Carter is the one I most admire. Once in the mid 1990s he was giving the commencement at Trinity College in Hartford, my home town. I wanted to get his autograph and I must have had a photo of him. So I walked over to the campus early. I found him at the far end of the quad standing alone, along with his service protection 20 paces away. Here was my chance. But for some unknown reason, I didn’t approach him. I felt I didn’t want to disturb him. I had downloaded and had printed out a professional photo of him and I had every intention of sending it to him in Plains for that long awaited autograph. Then earlier this year, we were told that he went into hospice and there was no way I was going to burden him for an autograph. I framed the photo and proudly walk past it every day. The signature wasn’t important. Just the picture and the memories.
I certainly agree with you that Trump doesn't care about anyone or anything except himself. It's also clear that Trump infects his lawyers who all seem to lose their professionalism when defending him. The story about President Carter clearly shows that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much money or power you have, it matters the type of person you are.
Agree, wholeheartedly (or in the case of Orange, whole-another-lower-part-of the anatomy). Except, I suspect (not knowing any of the clowns who are his current mouthpieces) part of the process to agree to rep him: rejiggering their ethics to be as Cohn-ish as possible. Perhaps their dreams are to rescue their client from prison, enabling him to get elected, then get a judgeship.
Thank you for this wonderful analysis. I’m sorry for the loss of your father-in-law. What a poignant reflection on the difference between a life well lived in service to humanity and one lived with no moral fabric, completely devoid of service to anyone but himself. That today’s proceeding was held in the same 11th Circuit where your father-in-law served and lost his life after having been appointed by President Carter must have an especially strong meaning for you. Your thoughts are palpable. Thank you for caring so much about us that you will share your time to make sure we are as informed as we can be. It’s up to us to read the links to the filings you have given us. Many thanks. You and your family and your sacrifices are so appreciated. Take very good care.💙
Spot-on Valere; and per usual, beautifully articulated. I had no idea about her father-in-law... talk about "palpable"... indeed. This clearly reinforces my notion that Joyce is a treasure not only of jurisprudent knowledge but of graceful balance and restraint... a combination this country needs a lot more of.
Marc, I agree 100%. Joyce is an example of dignity and grace - without a selfish bone in her body. Sometimes when I look at the timeline that she has worked against day after day to take care of all of her obligations with the media, university, family, podcasts… and it seems we are her priority. Are we even in Beginning Law 50.5? She never fails us, no matter how late in the evening or early morning she is writing. I just think it must be wrenching for her to watch proceedings involving someone who is so deplorable, but yet is able to test the system over and over and over again, and has in the past, manipulated it to his advantage. I think there is a way that we can let more people know about the gift of information that Joyce has given us. I believe our democracy is going to stand. I think there’s going to be a rip-roaring cleanup of those at the trough of self interest. What gives me hope is watching the Republican party implode. I think the outcome is going to be that enough Republicans will come over to the Democrats because they’ve simply will have had enough of the shoddiness, that we at least will be able to conduct the business of our government on the Legislative end. Joe Biden is holding up his part as our president with oversight of the executive branch. Jack Smith and Fani Willis are competent and honorable individuals, who fiercely believe in the law and bringing justice to those who are (allegedly) on the wrong side of the law. They and their teams have the integrity, skill and will to bring this about. We have judges at the state and federal levels who will make decisions with regard to the rule of law who will bring dignity and grace to their courtrooms. I believe those of us who are on Joyce’s sub stack with the aim to learn as much as possible about these legal events could take this as a rare opportunity of service to teach our fellow Americans and share the gift of knowledge Joyce is sharing with us, in whatever way we can. Those of us who have websites and YouTube sites could take a bit of time to actually post and read the court documents. We could read and make audio and video recordings of Joyce’s sub stack (if she gives us permission to do so). The indictments are already recorded on YouTube for people to listen to and watch. We should invite people to watch those with us and promise to take their questions back to Joyce. We can suggest they join Joyce’s sub stack. She is extremely generous among sub stack writers. She has a free version that goes a long way, and only special presentations are on her fully paid version. But for the daily essence of where the court cases are going, all that is free.
Valere and Marc, I so agree with you both ! I discovered Joyce a few years ago soon after I read and article by Preet Bharara which had let me entranced. My goodness Joyce is such a treasure on so many different aspects. But her kindness and humor is perhaps what delights me the most. I loved President Carter, and thought it was so unjust that Ronald Reagan took all the benefit of the release of hostages in Iran when it was all due to president Carter.
We are, as Valere said, surrounded by wonderful people, the courage of jack Smith, his team and Fani Willis. I know deep inside that our democracy will survive, we are the majority and so many to work for this. Absolutely let us get everyone we know to visit this Substack which is so great !!
We shall win, dear friends, and then we shall be so happy to celebrate.
Flo, You hit the nail on the head: many years ago the leaders of the gifted and talented community who taught future teachers at university and graduate level, decided to have special conferences and discussions around the topic of 'is there a common denominator for the gifted children among us?' They all knew kids who had giftedness in one or more areas such as logical-mathematics, verbal-linquistics, visial-spatial, musical, musical-rhythmic, and Howard Gardner added to the areas with his identifications that included the above plus interpersonal, intrapersonal, naturalistic and bodily-kinesthetic. But these educators thought there was something intangible that tied them all together: what besides extraordinary brightness and intelligence existed as a common denominator in these gifted kids? So after lots of time, over several years, they came up with something that everyone of the identified kids had: they were kind. I think Barbara Clark may have published this as a study, but I know she lectured it. So the trait that Joyce has that shows when she stays up late, or gets up early to make sure we are informed, and never criticizes us when we go off the legal path to a hare-brained tangent on why Trump eats fast food and drinks 12 diet colas every day, is that she does not criticize us. No matter that she has just finished synopsizing a complicated event in 10 exquisitely written paragraphs that the press corps from CNN, MSNBC and WaPo will pilfer for their first editions in the morning, and we bother her with the basic of basic kinds of legal questions, she is kind to us. She never jerks us back on topic as we ramble through the ethers, and she never says "I just wrote that in the preceding article to these comments." So we never feel 'inferior' to her to not be lawyers, or lesser than's. Her response is kindness and always patience. It is innately in her being to be patient and kind to us. She probably has any number of identified intelligences such as verbal-linguistics; certainly logical. (I disagree with Gardner when he lumps logical with mathematical. One can be logical off the chart without having mathematical ability and one can have high mathematical ability and be completely illogical but be able to be trained in analytics to be able to do computational analysis of data but not be able to construct a theoretical construct from the data or devise a logical method to conduct a decent study - so analytical and logical are not the same. They are on two opposite ends of a spectrum: analytical could be on the left end of the spectrum, with answers gained through a cognitive thought process that works in a sort of scientific method process of gathering information/data and logical on the other end, can be arrived at through intuition: things have to make 'logical sense' and all the presentations of data in the world may not make sense if one's gut tells one it is not correct data or information. But having enough 'correct' data helps one make logical sense - and the 'gifted logic' sifts through all of the data in a lightening speed mode. The whole makes sense (or not). In my view, analytical and mathematical are stand-alones and 'logical' belongs with Howard's newly defined area 'existentialist'). [Sorry Joyce, just a tad bit off track for the existentialists and logicals on the site]. Anyway, Joyce is gifted off the chart in logical, analytical, interpersonal (we're all in this together) and kindness is imbedded as the overwhelming common denominator with all of our gifted friends who excel in their domains (like knitting or growing plants or cooking/feeding their families or keeping the neighborhood 'together.')
I so agree Valere with everything you said, beautifully ( And humorously). I had a dad who was a genius in economy and became well known at his time in france, but at the dinner table if my siblings or I would say of someone, 'well he is not that smart', ( in French you say, he didn't invent the powder, lol ) he would lift his finger and say, 'yes, but he is a gentle one". Gentleness or kindness, though he was brilliant, would for him override everything.
I love it that your dad knew the difference. And you do as well. Joyce’s
substack is unique in that lots of bright people show up, but as a general rule, they don’t have egos out of control and there’s really no sniping to other members. Interloper appear, but they don’t stick around. We really are here to learn, and to share that knowledge as much as possible. There is an undercurrent of fear because a few people think Trump could be reelected. I’m not one of them. I think he does post significant danger because of his control over his followers who are cult members. There are factors that make me Think he’s not going to be in good shape for very very long. everyone has free will and could certainly turn behaviors around (including diet ). We have a deeper worry than him, and it’s that there is an element of right wing Christian evangelicals, who have a co-opted our legislative branch through their revisionist history, claiming that the constitution was written by founding fathers who were ‘ ‘Christian.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. None of the founding fathers were even close to being Christian Evangelicals. They were Unitarian if they had a church membership but by and large they were Unitarian. Some were atheist. They belonged to Presbyterian and a few belong to the Congregational church. But by and large they were deists who believed God created the Earth, and then left it alone for them to run. And it’s for that reason God is not mentioned in the constitution. They did not think one needed to be religious to be moral and a patriot and they said so. So it is odd to me that the revisionist historians among the Supreme Court members and the Congress leave this important fact out of their story. Many of the laws that have affected us socially have been done with the wrong view that: “This is what the Founding Fathers wanted” and “This is what the Founding Fathers meant.“ so far as I can determine, the Founding Fathers made a social contract when they created the founding documents (The writers were generally wealthy, educated, business owners, lawyers, editors, and they represented people who didn’t have a voice or the wherewithal to take months off to work on the governing documents. Thus the founding fathers understood very clearly that they had a social contract with people who were not able to participate in the document preparation. And they left God out of it. The evangelical right wing Christian movement is imposing their beliefs on the rest of us, and Trump selected only Christian evangelical justices for the Supreme Court. I for one and pretty tired of it. They hide behind this façade of. protecting their right to religious freedom, but where is my right to not have their religion crammed down my throat? I’m hoping Biden will expand the Supreme Court to get this ship back on course.
I’m going to bed now so rest well and it’s very nice to talk to you for a few minutes. I hope I meet you again.
Flo, thank you for chiming in here on this thread (“Bienvenue!”😉). You are spot-on about Carter; if his ordered raid to rescue the Iran hostages had been successful then one could fairly posit that he might have won a 2nd term.
The only President that could actually get Arabs and Israelis to sit down and talk and negotiate a peaceful coexistence. Back when extremists on both sides weren’t in charge. But Sadat paid the dearest price from power hungry extremists who could not abide.
Getting back to your other thoughts: I concur completely. I firmly believe the good people of this country will not ever again let the MAGA minority get back in power except in isolated Red state pockets. But we must collectively get the “don’t buy into GOP/MAGA propaganda” message out there and get another Big Blue Wave 🌊🌊🌊 in ‘24.
Thank you Mark, I am humbled by such nice comment. Yes, weren't we lucky to have had Jimmy Carter and Anwar Sadat ?
We won't let MAGA people win, we just need to pay attention to legal shenanigans going right now and later. And perhaps pay attention to our little Vladimir Putin's discreet actions too.. But we shall do all this 😉
I heard some of the arguments today. I thought it very telling that Trump’s lawyers did not think any rights should be balanced against Trump’s absolutist First Anendment rights. When you add this to Project 2025, the vermin speech and the Univision news, we are getting a very clear picture of his cult followers supporting his dictatorship. We should be very afraid and do everything we need to do to get him defeated.
My 94 yr old mother is not leaving thto the next generation. She is doing her part. Let’s stand with her so she can say she left this world a better place.
having spent my career in child protection then as a hospice social worker i have a rather skewed view of life AND death. my 95.5 y/o mother is now in hospice and we are all ready for her to go.....no one more ready than SHE. but i don’t want her to go before she can vote.....is that selfish? LOL
My limited experience with elders who are dying is that they have considerable control when they go. When the last sibling arrives, when everyone leaves the room after an animated visit. So your mom will go when she choses. And your are giving her a noble purpose..to help save democracy. What a gift! You are absolved of guilt!
Joyce, thank you for educating some of us who are not in the legal community about the Appellate Court and how you trained lawyers in your division. It sounds like all three judges were fully engaged in this first amendment case. I also appreciated hearing about Pop and President Carter’s interaction with your husband’s mother. In my family, we called my Dad’s father “Pop”! I will be thinking about you and your family during the Thanksgiving break.
My deepest condolences on the loss of your father-in-law to attack by a litigant. Thank you for sharing the story of President Carter's comfort to your family- it reinforces the knowledge of what a fine man he is. Steve Schmidt wrote a wonderful tribute to Rosalynn Carter in his post on his substack today. "What Rosalyn and Jimmy Carter did with their lives was monumental. How they lived their lives with humility, dignity, patriotism, and service at the core was a great blessing to this country." His post brought tears to my eyes earlier today and Joyce, yours just did so again.
I'm thankful that our country has been blessed with such leaders and fervently hope that we can continue to embody and advance such values at the heart of our identity as Americans.
I clerk for an appellate court and went to oral argument on a case assigned to me. It was a storm water drainage case and the plaintiff’s had asked for a ridiculous amount of remediation unde4 the circumstances. The trial court indicated that wasn’t going to happen and asked both sides to submit compromise plans, the plaintiffs refused so the trial court went the defendant’s plan. Plaintiffs appealed and asked for the same outrageous remedy. The lawyer wouldn’t back off the argument that his clients were entitled to everything and the kitchen sink, and finally one of the judges said to him, that he was asking for a Cadillac result and sometimes you’re only entitled to a Chevy.
Thank you Joyce for your clarity in explaining what happened today. I know you were hoping for chicken pictures and a bit of a break. Thanks also for sharing your family’s very human story/connection to President Carter. It is so important to be reminded of our own and others compassion and humanity during these times when it appears to be dwindling.
As a non lawyer I must say I found it difficult to listen to Trump’s lawyer continue to downplay the importance and significance of dealing with threats. As if they were nothing. ( much like a 2nd amendment argument about the right to bear arms). If the persons at risk of being threatened or attacked were members of this man’s family would he feel the same?
Carter was the first President I voted for, and while he was never a flashy politician, no one could have doubted his character and deep commitment to both his country and to humanity. It’s a stark contrast to Trump and his followers.
Carter was my first presidential vote also. I spent the hot summer of 1976 pregnant and knitting Christmas ornaments (!) as I watched the conventions. The baby ended up to be twins, and Jimmy was their first president too! Steve Schmidt wrote a piece yesterday about Rosalyn that caused me an ugly cry. They were good and honest people throughout their long lives together. Pretty sure they never used the word "vermin..."
Carter was also the first president I voted for and have admired his lifelong decency and commitment to better mankind. Until I read the obituary for Mrs. Carter, I hadn't realized her monumental contributions to our country's betterment. Truly a partnership to aspire to.
And, in an age where performative politics is the norm, both Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter were truly public servants who took their responsibilities seriously and were never boastful about their many years of service in and out of the White House.
Thanks for the story about President Carter. A good man who has continued to good in his post-presidential life. He was robbed of a second term by Republican Evil (let's call it what it is). Good to hear the nickname "Pop"; that is what I called my late father. Sorry to hear of your grandfather's death in such a terrible incident.
Since 2016 I've spent a lot of time comparing Trump to President Carter and several other Presidents. As the old folks used to say, " he can't hold a light to them."
Thank you for the story about President Carter. I was just commenting on how he has been such a model of a good person. You just reinforced that image even more.
I voted for Carter, and I thought him to be a good person with appallingly bad judgment in his appointment of friends who were not so good or so honest as his advisors. They let him down and reflected poorly on him.
Considering the mess President Carter inherited from Nixon & Ford, and as biased as I am, I don't think some of his choices were that bad. Like every president before him, and many after him, he was surrounded by some who had their own agenda; the interests of the country be damned.
It's easy, I think, to take a revisionist position on past administrations (as I did above on the catastrophic Nixon & Ford presidencies) and say that they are bad. Historically, however, President Carter still ranks ahead Nixon & Ford(https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall), and light years above the Orange Moron, er, Mr. Trump. Despite the fact that President Carter couldn't get a break from the media, his presidency looks better by the day...at least to me.
FP, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was simply musing about his greatest weakness in trusting his friends from Georgia to be as honest as he was himself. The many scandals early in his administration made folks distrust his judgment and ability to govern.
Harriet, thanks for the clarification.
Punkinhead works for me. And it suits him. By that I mean dumoty. This ended up on the wrong thread I think.
Gosh, Jen, the man just lost his wife and is dying himself. A little kindness here and there is good for all of us.
I think she was referring to the melonhead who irritates us all?
How unkind.
You prefer orange cocksplat? It’s accurate also
I voted for Gerald Ford against Carter /my only republican vote) but supported Carter the 2nd time. I had no respect for his adversary.
I did, too. I thought Ford was a decent man and didn't know Carter very well. There were times in Carter's presidency that I wanted to sit him down and have a little talk with him, but in 1980 there was no question that he was the better man. He has proven that many times over.
When I look back at all the presidents in my time, Jimmy Carter is the one I most admire. Once in the mid 1990s he was giving the commencement at Trinity College in Hartford, my home town. I wanted to get his autograph and I must have had a photo of him. So I walked over to the campus early. I found him at the far end of the quad standing alone, along with his service protection 20 paces away. Here was my chance. But for some unknown reason, I didn’t approach him. I felt I didn’t want to disturb him. I had downloaded and had printed out a professional photo of him and I had every intention of sending it to him in Plains for that long awaited autograph. Then earlier this year, we were told that he went into hospice and there was no way I was going to burden him for an autograph. I framed the photo and proudly walk past it every day. The signature wasn’t important. Just the picture and the memories.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Thanks for posting.
I certainly agree with you that Trump doesn't care about anyone or anything except himself. It's also clear that Trump infects his lawyers who all seem to lose their professionalism when defending him. The story about President Carter clearly shows that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much money or power you have, it matters the type of person you are.
Yes.
Simply this; he really doesn’t care.
He has been compared to Hitler but I think there's a little bit of Mengele sadism also. He does care about hurting people.
Narcissistic sociopaths are incapable of empathy
Agree, wholeheartedly (or in the case of Orange, whole-another-lower-part-of the anatomy). Except, I suspect (not knowing any of the clowns who are his current mouthpieces) part of the process to agree to rep him: rejiggering their ethics to be as Cohn-ish as possible. Perhaps their dreams are to rescue their client from prison, enabling him to get elected, then get a judgeship.
Thank you for this wonderful analysis. I’m sorry for the loss of your father-in-law. What a poignant reflection on the difference between a life well lived in service to humanity and one lived with no moral fabric, completely devoid of service to anyone but himself. That today’s proceeding was held in the same 11th Circuit where your father-in-law served and lost his life after having been appointed by President Carter must have an especially strong meaning for you. Your thoughts are palpable. Thank you for caring so much about us that you will share your time to make sure we are as informed as we can be. It’s up to us to read the links to the filings you have given us. Many thanks. You and your family and your sacrifices are so appreciated. Take very good care.💙
Spot-on Valere; and per usual, beautifully articulated. I had no idea about her father-in-law... talk about "palpable"... indeed. This clearly reinforces my notion that Joyce is a treasure not only of jurisprudent knowledge but of graceful balance and restraint... a combination this country needs a lot more of.
Marc, I agree 100%. Joyce is an example of dignity and grace - without a selfish bone in her body. Sometimes when I look at the timeline that she has worked against day after day to take care of all of her obligations with the media, university, family, podcasts… and it seems we are her priority. Are we even in Beginning Law 50.5? She never fails us, no matter how late in the evening or early morning she is writing. I just think it must be wrenching for her to watch proceedings involving someone who is so deplorable, but yet is able to test the system over and over and over again, and has in the past, manipulated it to his advantage. I think there is a way that we can let more people know about the gift of information that Joyce has given us. I believe our democracy is going to stand. I think there’s going to be a rip-roaring cleanup of those at the trough of self interest. What gives me hope is watching the Republican party implode. I think the outcome is going to be that enough Republicans will come over to the Democrats because they’ve simply will have had enough of the shoddiness, that we at least will be able to conduct the business of our government on the Legislative end. Joe Biden is holding up his part as our president with oversight of the executive branch. Jack Smith and Fani Willis are competent and honorable individuals, who fiercely believe in the law and bringing justice to those who are (allegedly) on the wrong side of the law. They and their teams have the integrity, skill and will to bring this about. We have judges at the state and federal levels who will make decisions with regard to the rule of law who will bring dignity and grace to their courtrooms. I believe those of us who are on Joyce’s sub stack with the aim to learn as much as possible about these legal events could take this as a rare opportunity of service to teach our fellow Americans and share the gift of knowledge Joyce is sharing with us, in whatever way we can. Those of us who have websites and YouTube sites could take a bit of time to actually post and read the court documents. We could read and make audio and video recordings of Joyce’s sub stack (if she gives us permission to do so). The indictments are already recorded on YouTube for people to listen to and watch. We should invite people to watch those with us and promise to take their questions back to Joyce. We can suggest they join Joyce’s sub stack. She is extremely generous among sub stack writers. She has a free version that goes a long way, and only special presentations are on her fully paid version. But for the daily essence of where the court cases are going, all that is free.
Valere and Marc, I so agree with you both ! I discovered Joyce a few years ago soon after I read and article by Preet Bharara which had let me entranced. My goodness Joyce is such a treasure on so many different aspects. But her kindness and humor is perhaps what delights me the most. I loved President Carter, and thought it was so unjust that Ronald Reagan took all the benefit of the release of hostages in Iran when it was all due to president Carter.
We are, as Valere said, surrounded by wonderful people, the courage of jack Smith, his team and Fani Willis. I know deep inside that our democracy will survive, we are the majority and so many to work for this. Absolutely let us get everyone we know to visit this Substack which is so great !!
We shall win, dear friends, and then we shall be so happy to celebrate.
Flo, You hit the nail on the head: many years ago the leaders of the gifted and talented community who taught future teachers at university and graduate level, decided to have special conferences and discussions around the topic of 'is there a common denominator for the gifted children among us?' They all knew kids who had giftedness in one or more areas such as logical-mathematics, verbal-linquistics, visial-spatial, musical, musical-rhythmic, and Howard Gardner added to the areas with his identifications that included the above plus interpersonal, intrapersonal, naturalistic and bodily-kinesthetic. But these educators thought there was something intangible that tied them all together: what besides extraordinary brightness and intelligence existed as a common denominator in these gifted kids? So after lots of time, over several years, they came up with something that everyone of the identified kids had: they were kind. I think Barbara Clark may have published this as a study, but I know she lectured it. So the trait that Joyce has that shows when she stays up late, or gets up early to make sure we are informed, and never criticizes us when we go off the legal path to a hare-brained tangent on why Trump eats fast food and drinks 12 diet colas every day, is that she does not criticize us. No matter that she has just finished synopsizing a complicated event in 10 exquisitely written paragraphs that the press corps from CNN, MSNBC and WaPo will pilfer for their first editions in the morning, and we bother her with the basic of basic kinds of legal questions, she is kind to us. She never jerks us back on topic as we ramble through the ethers, and she never says "I just wrote that in the preceding article to these comments." So we never feel 'inferior' to her to not be lawyers, or lesser than's. Her response is kindness and always patience. It is innately in her being to be patient and kind to us. She probably has any number of identified intelligences such as verbal-linguistics; certainly logical. (I disagree with Gardner when he lumps logical with mathematical. One can be logical off the chart without having mathematical ability and one can have high mathematical ability and be completely illogical but be able to be trained in analytics to be able to do computational analysis of data but not be able to construct a theoretical construct from the data or devise a logical method to conduct a decent study - so analytical and logical are not the same. They are on two opposite ends of a spectrum: analytical could be on the left end of the spectrum, with answers gained through a cognitive thought process that works in a sort of scientific method process of gathering information/data and logical on the other end, can be arrived at through intuition: things have to make 'logical sense' and all the presentations of data in the world may not make sense if one's gut tells one it is not correct data or information. But having enough 'correct' data helps one make logical sense - and the 'gifted logic' sifts through all of the data in a lightening speed mode. The whole makes sense (or not). In my view, analytical and mathematical are stand-alones and 'logical' belongs with Howard's newly defined area 'existentialist'). [Sorry Joyce, just a tad bit off track for the existentialists and logicals on the site]. Anyway, Joyce is gifted off the chart in logical, analytical, interpersonal (we're all in this together) and kindness is imbedded as the overwhelming common denominator with all of our gifted friends who excel in their domains (like knitting or growing plants or cooking/feeding their families or keeping the neighborhood 'together.')
I so agree Valere with everything you said, beautifully ( And humorously). I had a dad who was a genius in economy and became well known at his time in france, but at the dinner table if my siblings or I would say of someone, 'well he is not that smart', ( in French you say, he didn't invent the powder, lol ) he would lift his finger and say, 'yes, but he is a gentle one". Gentleness or kindness, though he was brilliant, would for him override everything.
Great lessons to us as children.
Joyce is a treasure indeed, just as you describe.
I love it that your dad knew the difference. And you do as well. Joyce’s
substack is unique in that lots of bright people show up, but as a general rule, they don’t have egos out of control and there’s really no sniping to other members. Interloper appear, but they don’t stick around. We really are here to learn, and to share that knowledge as much as possible. There is an undercurrent of fear because a few people think Trump could be reelected. I’m not one of them. I think he does post significant danger because of his control over his followers who are cult members. There are factors that make me Think he’s not going to be in good shape for very very long. everyone has free will and could certainly turn behaviors around (including diet ). We have a deeper worry than him, and it’s that there is an element of right wing Christian evangelicals, who have a co-opted our legislative branch through their revisionist history, claiming that the constitution was written by founding fathers who were ‘ ‘Christian.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. None of the founding fathers were even close to being Christian Evangelicals. They were Unitarian if they had a church membership but by and large they were Unitarian. Some were atheist. They belonged to Presbyterian and a few belong to the Congregational church. But by and large they were deists who believed God created the Earth, and then left it alone for them to run. And it’s for that reason God is not mentioned in the constitution. They did not think one needed to be religious to be moral and a patriot and they said so. So it is odd to me that the revisionist historians among the Supreme Court members and the Congress leave this important fact out of their story. Many of the laws that have affected us socially have been done with the wrong view that: “This is what the Founding Fathers wanted” and “This is what the Founding Fathers meant.“ so far as I can determine, the Founding Fathers made a social contract when they created the founding documents (The writers were generally wealthy, educated, business owners, lawyers, editors, and they represented people who didn’t have a voice or the wherewithal to take months off to work on the governing documents. Thus the founding fathers understood very clearly that they had a social contract with people who were not able to participate in the document preparation. And they left God out of it. The evangelical right wing Christian movement is imposing their beliefs on the rest of us, and Trump selected only Christian evangelical justices for the Supreme Court. I for one and pretty tired of it. They hide behind this façade of. protecting their right to religious freedom, but where is my right to not have their religion crammed down my throat? I’m hoping Biden will expand the Supreme Court to get this ship back on course.
I’m going to bed now so rest well and it’s very nice to talk to you for a few minutes. I hope I meet you again.
Flo, thank you for chiming in here on this thread (“Bienvenue!”😉). You are spot-on about Carter; if his ordered raid to rescue the Iran hostages had been successful then one could fairly posit that he might have won a 2nd term.
The only President that could actually get Arabs and Israelis to sit down and talk and negotiate a peaceful coexistence. Back when extremists on both sides weren’t in charge. But Sadat paid the dearest price from power hungry extremists who could not abide.
Getting back to your other thoughts: I concur completely. I firmly believe the good people of this country will not ever again let the MAGA minority get back in power except in isolated Red state pockets. But we must collectively get the “don’t buy into GOP/MAGA propaganda” message out there and get another Big Blue Wave 🌊🌊🌊 in ‘24.
Thank you Mark, I am humbled by such nice comment. Yes, weren't we lucky to have had Jimmy Carter and Anwar Sadat ?
We won't let MAGA people win, we just need to pay attention to legal shenanigans going right now and later. And perhaps pay attention to our little Vladimir Putin's discreet actions too.. But we shall do all this 😉
“Trump’s lawyer declined to concede that any conduct would be objectionable, a poor strategic call when there are lines that are going to be drawn.”
This is trump world in a nutshell. He can do no wrong.
And great Carter story. What a great man!!
I heard some of the arguments today. I thought it very telling that Trump’s lawyers did not think any rights should be balanced against Trump’s absolutist First Anendment rights. When you add this to Project 2025, the vermin speech and the Univision news, we are getting a very clear picture of his cult followers supporting his dictatorship. We should be very afraid and do everything we need to do to get him defeated.
My 94 yr old mother is not leaving thto the next generation. She is doing her part. Let’s stand with her so she can say she left this world a better place.
God bless your mom! I pray that she adds her vote to the crucial effort to defeat TFG
Thank you Marie. Just saw her this past week and she plans on sticking around to vote. Unfortunately she votes in Florida but it is Broward County
Good for your Mom. I hope the storm last week didn’t cause her any problems. And at least Broward is staunchly Democratic.
Did not affect her but delayed our departure. Thanks, Donna
having spent my career in child protection then as a hospice social worker i have a rather skewed view of life AND death. my 95.5 y/o mother is now in hospice and we are all ready for her to go.....no one more ready than SHE. but i don’t want her to go before she can vote.....is that selfish? LOL
My limited experience with elders who are dying is that they have considerable control when they go. When the last sibling arrives, when everyone leaves the room after an animated visit. So your mom will go when she choses. And your are giving her a noble purpose..to help save democracy. What a gift! You are absolved of guilt!
Joyce, thank you for educating some of us who are not in the legal community about the Appellate Court and how you trained lawyers in your division. It sounds like all three judges were fully engaged in this first amendment case. I also appreciated hearing about Pop and President Carter’s interaction with your husband’s mother. In my family, we called my Dad’s father “Pop”! I will be thinking about you and your family during the Thanksgiving break.
My deepest condolences on the loss of your father-in-law to attack by a litigant. Thank you for sharing the story of President Carter's comfort to your family- it reinforces the knowledge of what a fine man he is. Steve Schmidt wrote a wonderful tribute to Rosalynn Carter in his post on his substack today. "What Rosalyn and Jimmy Carter did with their lives was monumental. How they lived their lives with humility, dignity, patriotism, and service at the core was a great blessing to this country." His post brought tears to my eyes earlier today and Joyce, yours just did so again.
I'm thankful that our country has been blessed with such leaders and fervently hope that we can continue to embody and advance such values at the heart of our identity as Americans.
I clerk for an appellate court and went to oral argument on a case assigned to me. It was a storm water drainage case and the plaintiff’s had asked for a ridiculous amount of remediation unde4 the circumstances. The trial court indicated that wasn’t going to happen and asked both sides to submit compromise plans, the plaintiffs refused so the trial court went the defendant’s plan. Plaintiffs appealed and asked for the same outrageous remedy. The lawyer wouldn’t back off the argument that his clients were entitled to everything and the kitchen sink, and finally one of the judges said to him, that he was asking for a Cadillac result and sometimes you’re only entitled to a Chevy.
Thank you Joyce for your clarity in explaining what happened today. I know you were hoping for chicken pictures and a bit of a break. Thanks also for sharing your family’s very human story/connection to President Carter. It is so important to be reminded of our own and others compassion and humanity during these times when it appears to be dwindling.
I am grateful to you.
As a non lawyer I must say I found it difficult to listen to Trump’s lawyer continue to downplay the importance and significance of dealing with threats. As if they were nothing. ( much like a 2nd amendment argument about the right to bear arms). If the persons at risk of being threatened or attacked were members of this man’s family would he feel the same?
Yes. Then again, maybe he's Trump's lawyer because he got an offer he couldn't refuse...
Like actually getting paid?
Or, like not having his loved ones harmed....
Thank you for sharing the wonderful experience with President Carter. It was so tender and thoughtful of him.
IT WAS A HOT BENCH.
There's the opening line for your novel, Joyce.
Yes:)
Carter was the first President I voted for, and while he was never a flashy politician, no one could have doubted his character and deep commitment to both his country and to humanity. It’s a stark contrast to Trump and his followers.
Carter was my first presidential vote also. I spent the hot summer of 1976 pregnant and knitting Christmas ornaments (!) as I watched the conventions. The baby ended up to be twins, and Jimmy was their first president too! Steve Schmidt wrote a piece yesterday about Rosalyn that caused me an ugly cry. They were good and honest people throughout their long lives together. Pretty sure they never used the word "vermin..."
Carter was also the first president I voted for and have admired his lifelong decency and commitment to better mankind. Until I read the obituary for Mrs. Carter, I hadn't realized her monumental contributions to our country's betterment. Truly a partnership to aspire to.
And, in an age where performative politics is the norm, both Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter were truly public servants who took their responsibilities seriously and were never boastful about their many years of service in and out of the White House.
Thanks for the story about President Carter. A good man who has continued to good in his post-presidential life. He was robbed of a second term by Republican Evil (let's call it what it is). Good to hear the nickname "Pop"; that is what I called my late father. Sorry to hear of your grandfather's death in such a terrible incident.
What a meaningful memory of President Carter and your Father-in-law. Very timely!!
Thank you for your succinct explanation of today's hearing. As always, you pointed out the finite aspects that were easy to miss.
Have a Happy, Safe Thanksgiving!!
Since 2016 I've spent a lot of time comparing Trump to President Carter and several other Presidents. As the old folks used to say, " he can't hold a light to them."