It’s happened here before in 1860. It has happened with Huey Long in Louisiana with a credible threat to go nationwide. It was attempted by Father Coughlin in a conspiracy with Nazi Germany. If that sounds familiar to you as similar to today’s relationship between MAGA, Russia, and Hungry, you’re not wrong.
For Black people in the South, it happened for almost a century. I wish more white people realized this. The "it can't happen here" delusion has a strong racial component. At least more and more women are catching on to the "Handmaid's Tale" corollary. I guess we've got to thank SCOTUS for pointing it out in the Dobbs decision.
Rachel Maddow's new book, Prequel, tells the story of the Nazi activity in America in the lead up to WWII. The resemblance to today is remarkable and frightening, right down to building the wall. Yes, that wall.
Quite true. But we should consider that there are millions of Americans who WANT it to happen here. They want an authoritarian strong man to "restore America" - bring it back to a time when women knew their place and white men could flex their bigoted muscles against the "others".
It really feels like Lindbergh is still with us...but wait! Is he reincarnated as Musk?
Bill, While I don’t dispute your point, I would note that I choose to focus exclusively on certain facts: 40 states have voted the same way in the past 4 presidential elections, and a high share of states the same way since the beginning of the 21st Century. Accordingly, we’re down to a handful of swing states—probably Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, and likely Michigan as our true swing states and only a handful of votes among them. In a word, if we’re to hold the presidency, while we should compete everywhere, we’re going to need to be laser-focused in relatively few places.
On a final, more personal note, I have difficulty claiming we live in a democratic republic when, out of 330 million people, some 400,000 decide presidential elections. Still, my most successful strategy to date has been spreading Rebecca Solnit’s astute observation that “a vote is a chess move, not a valentine.”
Your statement about 400,000 people out of 330 million deciding the outcome of the election is why we need to abolish the Electoral College. If we didn’t have the electoral college we would have had Gore over Bush and Clinton over TFG.
Mike, Admittedly, you’re right. However, I am aware of only two options—one to abolish the electoral college, the other to render it irrelevant, neither of which is possible in the foreseeable future.
The first entails amending the Constitution requiring a two-thirds majority in both U.S. Chambers and ratification by three-fourths of the States. The second, the National Interstate Compact, requires enough consenting States to reach a 270 electoral vote threshold. For some time, we’ve been stuck in the low 190s largely due to highly gerrymandered state legislatures.
I think we’re closer now than that with the interstate compact. I thought it was closer to 220. Still, too far to go and Republicans really don’t want that, seeing as how they’ll never win a popular vote.
I thought it was closer too. I feel the Interstate Compact is the best and easier way to get around the electoral college. A Constitutional Amendment would be more permanent in my opinion. The Compact would be open to states withdrawing down the road.
Jen, Thank you for commenting. I did my homework and learned, until recently, the number stood at 205. Minnesota’s 10 electors then raised the number to 215, where it currently stands. The good news is that Michigan, with its current trifecta, shortly is expected to add its 15 electors bringing the total to 230. Of course, as Mike, who is part of this thread, aptly noted, if state legislatures flip, states could withdraw. Still, if we retake the U.S. House, hold our 49 U.S. Senate seats (excluding Sinema and, of course, Manchin), flip 1 Republican Senate seat, and hold the White House, we could pass the Freedom to Vote Act, whose federal provisions would include enlisting nationwide independent commissions to draw district lines. Because state legislatures are subject to regulations of Congress, we would have a real shot at reaching the 270 threshold.
Postscript: I just read Judith’s comment, as part of this thread, and the only thing I can figure is I missed, as of this month, that some states have withdrawn from the Compact.
Judith, As my comment to Jen, who is part of this thread, shows, the count had stood at 215 and it appeared it was about to reach 230. Presuming the site you reference is accurate, it seems states that had been part of the Compact very recently have withdrawn.
The Electoral College and the Senate give more representation to land than to people. Based on the population of Wyoming, California should have 132 senators. The EC and the Senate can only be changed by Constitutional Amendments. However, EC members of each State could be apportioned by the percentage of popular vote by State laws. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation
Gerrymandering should be illegal under Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964), this Court held that the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment includes a "one-person, one-vote" principle.
The Senate should change its own rules to eliminate the filibuster and the kind of single Senator holds like the one recently used the moron Tommy Tuberville.
Unfortunately our government was created to serve the wealthy and is now effectively managed by Wealthy White Male Christian Nationalists that through their control of media keep the population at war with itself. They are one election away from gaining a vice grip on the throat of democracy.
This would be a super topic for an educational documentary. Especially since the electoral college was established when there were thirteen colonies. We lost a lot during the Bush Junior years when he established ‘no child left behind’ for K-12 education, a failed program that focused on math and science to the exclusion of civic and history. The result has been an entire generation of individuals who simply have no comprehension of governance. But a well done documentary with the essence of how the electoral college has impacted their own votes, may help people understand and fix the knowledge gap. ‘Who asks the question’ is always the big deal. I’m wondering if Oprah would narrate? It’s so vital to have the public behind any kind of major constitutional change. And what could be more important than informing them why their vote doesn’t always count.
Frightening, but it could be different. That's precisely why historic GOTV efforts are needed across the nation in 2024 to soundly reject the Orange scourge that threatens the nation. I'm increasingly skeptical that the Judicial branch is going to bail us out in this upcoming election.
@Just Sayin’, While I agree massive voter mobilization is essential if we’re to repudiate Trump and Trumpism in 24 and beyond, my point was to amplify the importance of strategy. Let’s remember, though Biden, in 2020, won by 7 million votes, but for 40,000 votes across 3 states— Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona—Biden would have lost to Trump.
As for the courts, though, overall, they’ve held up, since 2020, better than I had anticipated, our greatest guardrail would be an overwhelming, crushing Republican defeat.
Barbara, I’m sure you’re aware but the over and covert suppression of votes in Georgia is truly frightening. For example, not having enough polling places open and not allowing friends of voters to supply them with water or any kind of food as they stand in line for hours.
Valere, Thank you for writing. While I’m well aware of Georgia’s long history of voter suppression tactics, the sheer will of its residents to cast their votes in 2020, fueled, I imagine, by organizations like Fair Fight and the New Georgia Project, invariably will motivate groups like The States Project to lend substantial support.
Then show them graphic pictures of the death and destruction of innocent citizens in Ukraine and Gaza. Netanyahu, putin, and the orange traitor are peas in the same poison pod. Some of it may get through, and if it convinces just a few of the danger, then that is progress.
Joyce, your warning about Trump by illustrating his direct connection to Argentina's recently elected president, Javier Milei, was very effective. Subscribers with Civil Discourse know what we are facing, what this country and the world are facing if Trump's is elected to the presidency. The trouble is - and it is a big trouble that President Biden, his team and the Democratic Party are not doing what you have just done - sent us THE MESSAGE. The US and the world are in double trouble because this message is NOT going out to the American people.
Every day I get millions of messages asking for money. It’s not working. Dems must unite behind Biden. I’m sick and tired of progressives throwing everything out of wack. It’s bad enough with the Mag crowd. Come up with a plan for god’s sake and talk to us directly. Hold a round table and show us how you plan to regain your self respect for all of us. Pontificating sounds like hot air. Show us. That’s what your leader Biden is doing but he needs a cohesive playing field. Were scared out here!
Your point about Progressives throwing everything out of whack is spot on! Dems and Progressives waste entirely too much time squabbling over perfect messaging rather than uniting.
It’s got to stop. We’re tetering on a ledge out here and who will save us???? We need for dems to work together to help us climb out of this mess. Bickering all the time serves none of us especially with the real threat of losing our democracy.
The young Berniecrats who could not morally vote for Clinton, even as Bernie implored them to, gave us t-Rump. Jill Stein, Putin's buddy, did not help.
Whatever can be said about Repub party (and theres a lot) they stick together! Why pray tell, is that so hard for Dems to learn? And yes, as Ransom Rideout said - the bunch who couldnt "morally" vote for Clinton or voted for a 3rd party? How is that in any way shape or form - morality? Certainly sounds more like unintelligent people who didnt get their way!
TutoneSF, I’m right there with you. I have been “shoveling”money at Dem candidates, but lately I have become pretty depressed about the situation you describe. I’m now thinking “we grass root Dems are carrying a big part of the financing to get Dems in. What are we getting for the dollars we donate? Who’s listening? Grrrr!😾
I keep running into people who buy the tripe. I am not subtle or respectful any longer. I simply say, "Don't vote for Trump. Just don't do it!" I get some shocked expressions, but if they say anything more, I say he is a criminal several times over. I no longer list the good things Biden has done. My message is so adamant that at least they are thinking now...I hope.
On top of THIS, Biden's team and Democratic Party's failure to get the message out about Trump and the rest of the traitors may be lethal, beyond imagining!
It really is. It’s a total weakness and we know Biden nor Harris are quiet. I would like for Joe to be a little more demonstrative. I want him to adopt Katie Porter’s white board. That inexpensive tool serves an important purpose. Why? Because illustrations and/or numbers burns a hole in listeners of watchers brains. People actually will pay attention. We simply cannot depend on The Lincoln Project to do the work for us.
Katie Porter and her white board have done and could do so much - IF enough people watched C-span and Utube! She is a true educator and very down to earth, which is needed.
Fern, President Biden really can’t discuss Trump and his many crimes by messaging the citizens of this country, as in a speech. Trump has been indicted. There are trials coming up. Everyone is sweating and shallow-breathing in wait for Justice to make its next move.
Biden can’t interfere or I am sure he would have by now.
I’m so tired. And not because the process moves so slowly, but because so many people criticize our heavy weight dragon slayers for not saying or doing something to soothe our fear, impatience and frustration.
Susan, Biden and all pro-democracy advocates absolutely must address truthfully, clearly and dramatically how Trump and the other traitors have hurt the vast majority of Americans; what the traitors' plans are as well as how the US and the world will be damaged much more severely, ending Democracy in this country. We do not know, you and I, what was lost in the time it took for the Justice Department to indict the former president. The fact that 'justice' if it does come about -- working slowly does not automatically mean working smartly. I don't know why you think attacking the traitors for what they have done and telling Americans in plain English about their plans, bulleting their written schemes, would have any negative effect on the four criminal indictments that were filed against Trump, two indictments on state charges (one in New York and one in Georgia) and two indictments (as well as one superseding indictment) are on federal charges. These indictments amount to a total of 91 felony charges. Democracy, what we have left of it, hangs in the balance. The American people must be informed as much as possible when they vote in the upcoming elections.
We both agree on what needs to be said truthfully, clearly, and dramatically. My thought has to do with Biden himself saying it. I believe he will speak at a time he chooses, however.
Doesn’t it seem like the defense would use anything Biden says to their benefit at trial? And the anti Biden Trump devotees and the media that supports them will take over the news cycle for weeks and would misrepresent Biden’s words and pump air into the “crime family” and “Hunter”and the “impeachment” bit, and especially do their predictable turn-around and say it’s Joe Biden who is trying to do what he accuses Trump of doing?
I agree with you. He is a sitting President and has to act like one. He can’t reinforce the moron party’s claim of doing what the TOT (Tiny Orange Turd) is doing.
I also beleive he’s keeping powder dry. While WE are watching and wringing our hands, most of the country is even more tired than we are.
Let them be tired, gather their strength. They’ll turn to this next year, and that’s when the big guns come out.
But the dumpty devotees already do that and when there is silence rather than speaking out - they take advantage of it. Look at the one instance of Hunter Biden standing up & telling it how it IS got a LOT of publicity - possibly even doing some enlightenment right there & it was a very short instance. All that silence before that only allowed the naysayers to fill it themselves!
Susan, my thoughts after reading your reply was that it illustrated why Biden may appear weak, old, lacking in passion and fight needed win battles against our foes. It also reminded me of the weakness that has prevailed in messaging by the Democratic Party. This is just a review, Susan, we differ in our approach to winning.
I don’t have a strategy for winning. I don’t perceive Biden as That Guy that many have said he is. A good deal of the problem of the apparently weak messaging by democrats is that there is a two ton psychotic gorilla always ten feet away waving his arms and scaring everyone. What possible message can penetrate that? Plus, anything you say is fodder to use against you. That’s how they play.
Just to be clear “That Guy” refers to the constant harping on Biden’s feebleness. Bodies weaken and sometimes they don’t do what used to be easy, but the mind that holds inside is sharp and experienced. Biden is making and keeping friends internationally. What could be more important now? Young folks don’t understand about getting old, but they will, hopefully.
Dems need a narrative--short and pithy. Creativity is not really my field, but what about: "Would you want your son or child to grow up to be like Donald Trump--a relentless liar and cheat, only concerned for his own interests, bullying the weak and defenseless, and always claiming at the end to be the victim." ?? Is that the man you'd like your kid to model?"
PS Without a strategy, you won't win! I'm for planning; knowing the weak spots of the foe and going forward with organization, money, a growing number of supporters and a strong winning spirit.
Interesting interchange (Susan and Fern). What you both say outlines the dilemma. The bottom line is VOTE FOR BIDEN! The "orange alternative" will destroy us!
Fern, Thank you for writing. In a moment, I plan to quote from Rachel Maddow from precisely a month ago. But, first, I want to clarify that I view her statement as providing Democrats with somewhat of a map for inextricably linking their Republican counterparts, were they to remain silent, with every aspect of Trump’s terrifying Project 2025.
Starting with the question, What is the institution that decides we never can espouse “what Trump has in store for us…” (Joyce) and also be part of said institution, also represent it, Maddow asserts, “There is only 1. It’s Trump’s political party. And when he is running to be the Republican nominee for President of the United States, he is contending to lead that party, while promising that he will build camps to hold millions of people in this country, and he will use the military against American civilians here at home, and his political opponents are vermin who will be crushed and exterminated.”
Maddow continues, “This is Trump testing the political party he says he is going to lead. Testing to see what they will tolerate as an institution. Which means every single member of that party will now have to answer whether this is who they are, whether this is what they stand for, whether this is the cause of their party.”
Maddow concludes, “A country under threat stands up for itself when the institutions that make up the civic and political life of that country stand up and say what they are for and what they no longer can stand.” She finishes by reinforcing “there only is 1 institution in this country that is implicated by what Trump is doing and he is testing them and that is the point where we are right now. Trump has forced it there.”
What now?” she asks.
As I intimated at the outset, I am most eager to spread Maddow’s framing, if you will, for holding Republican’s feet to the fire. My apologies for the cliche, but it’s been a long year.
Barbara, I watch Rachel Maddow's Show and saw the program you referred to. She does a good job of presenting cogent themes and making connections. There are, however, a number of ways to skin the traitors and tie them tightly to the fascism they espouse and act out.
Fern, While I agree with your point, I also have field-tested Maddow’s precise language and stratagems to great effect, particularly on matters wherein the Republican Party has been silent. To that end, I thought it worthwhile to reprint some of her text if only to suggest an approach for not allowing Republican equivocations to go unanswered. Moreover, I would note, for what it’s worth, I was so inspired by Maddow that I have presented her framing, so to speak, to leadership.
That said, I would find it most helpful were you to elaborate on some of your ideas.
Joyce is not being alarmist. Like Miley. Like Hitler for that matter. Trump has told us what he would do if he were President again. We must stop him and we should be able to. Democrats have been winning elections. What we need is money. Donate to Joe Biden now. Donate to the vulnerable Senators. Donate to the few vulnerable Dem members in the House. And donate to democrats who can flip sears in the Senate and the House. That is a lot of money? Especially if you donate every month. But what is a free society worth?
Although I agree and do donate, I find it absolutely shameful that we are asked to donate money to see our message get out. What about folks who agree but need to buy groceries, kids shoes and gas. Money cannot be the measure of our ability to engage in civil discourse.
Praxis (process) in Politics: Per the Wikipedia definition, " ... the free, universal, creative & self-creative activity through which ( a human) creates & changes (our) World & (ourselves).
In other words: chop wood & carry water daily. : )
And I too. Groups like us, and the the huge numbers of Heather's and others fans can make a real difference if they get out and do something. I just suggested "Voters of Tomorrow a few minutes ago as an example of a group geared to reach many potential voters, young and necessary.
Ellie, you didn't get down to my original comment. That is just what I suggested. My long list wasn't at my fingertips, but I used Jessica and Voters of Tommorrow as examples. Letter writing to environmental organizations is important too, because of their huge member and supporter base that could be mobilized to campaign to save our nation so that there would be a government with departments to act upon their issues, if we stop Trump. I could go on and on, but I did way down the feed.
I have been yammering to everyone to stay in touch with Jessica.
Writing to environmental organizations.not only because of there huge member/supporter database, the flame to light under them is that by continuing "Busines as usual, it can't happen here" will ensure that it DOES happen here and pogressive business interfereing activists will be the first to go. Tell them "That's you, baby" That might get there attention. I will go over this with Jessica. She is near me and just got electeted to the DCC board.
Me too. Small dollar amts. I also don't have a lot to share. Wish I had millions to make sure trump doesn't get a second term. That scares the bajesus out of me. Our country would be lost forever.
The more I research and delve deeper into their crazy world, you can see that they have been planning this a very very long time. Us democrats weren't paying enough attention. Are we to
Joyce, if Trump is elected you and your family are in grave danger as I’m sure you realize having looked into the merciless eyes of sadistic criminals during your career. Every publicly vocal person like yourself who calls for Trump’s punishment is already on his list of enemies to be silenced. Please know that I understand my warning sounds hysterical to some ears. A good friend escaped Argentina with her life after the coup there in the 1970’s after many thousands of ordinary citizens were “disappeared.” She was a progressive psychiatrist and almost all her friends were rounded up- many were tortured before they died. She told me- “Michael, it was like living in a dream- I couldn’t believe it was really happening.”
Trump is a malignant narcissist and he burns with an inescapable homicidal rage for anyone who openly threatens his power over others.
Anyone reading this just now- please close your eyes for a second and get in touch with the fear you feel if Trump were to see the things you have written or said about him.
As a practicing psychologist for almost 45 years, I know what Trump has planned and it’s not just political retribution- it’s the nightmare of personally relishing his sadistic revenge.
The most important thing Liz Cheney said was that Trump will not abide by any court rulings if he’s president again. That means that with people like Jeffrey Clarke as acting AG, Cash Patel as acting secretary of defense, Mike Flynn as acting Chairman of the joint chiefs and Steven Miller as acting director of homeland security, nothing can stop Trump from shutting down msnbc and other media outlets and newspapers, after he declares martial law on January 21, 2025. He can and will start rounding up his enemies.
After my friend escaped Argentina in the late 1970’s after the coup, it was discovered that there were 360 secret internment camps across the country where the “disappeared” had been taken to, tortured for information and then murdered.
Dr. Cornwall, you are not hysterical in any way. Those ears that know not of what you speak must be educated, somehow, as difficult as it might be. Chile also then as well. All the banter upon the death of Kissinger only brought up rage in me, as all I could think of was the songs of Victor Jara, who sang loudly to his people in the stadium as they broke his fingers, mercilessly.
Ransom- Thank you. The quick descent of a population into submission under dictatorial rule always involves the use of physical torture to enforce compliance by instilling the terror of suffering unbearable pain. My friend who escaped the coup in Argentina told me about the network of torturers that got information about her and other opponents of the new rulers by torturing her friends.
Oh man, someone inevitably breaks. If history is any guide, our tax dollars paid for the worst of it, around the world. Those of us who understand will be the first looked for, I suppose. I used to think that they did not have enough bullets for all of us, but that has changed, drastically.
An art professor of mine, back in the late 60s, was a student at the Bauhaus and barely escaped Germany and caught a boat to Recife and made his way far up the Amazon, knowing he would not be found. He lived with the indigeoness untill he found out the war he missed was over and his artwork reflected a concioseness totally devoid of Europe. So many interesting stoties out there.
Yes Ransom. The spiritual darkness soon grows into a nightmare existence. My psychiatrist friend who escaped Argentina told me that some of the mental health professionals who were tortured were given the choice to die or to become torturers of new victims- those now broken souls who had spent their lives relieving emotional suffering, now were inflicting suffering to extract information about possible people who were disloyal to the new regime. She said that those mental heath professionals became the most effective torturers.
I know this is a ignorant response. But why does he want to be this way? I don’t understand it... people want to live and enjoy their lives and he just wants to destroy it. It’s very frustrating to understand.... peace all.
exactly; spot-on... an evil, empty soul that is purely transactional capitalism it its worst. The product of a father of exactly the same fiber who chose him to be his next-in-line-to-the throne.
Mike, I'm old enough to remember the radio serial, "The Shadow", whose slogan was "Who Knows What Evil Lurks in the Heart of Men?" (incorrect grammar, but oh well). My point being, we can't imagine the depth of evil in some, because it isn't in us. But DJT, on the other hand, revels in his twisted path to power, and laying clues for us on the way. He's a madman.
Trump desperately...really really desperately NEEDS to be reelected just so he can escape prison. He knows he is guilty of numerous crimes. He knows he is a con man. He is just like Netanyahu. He doesn't care what it takes to elude imprisonment. Doesn't matter how many people are hurt or killed. He is a wounded and caged beast. He will do anything to escape. But he won't. He is doomed. Good.
I will tell you what my late husband told me many years ago. He was an alcoholic and two drinks would make me sick. When I told him that I could not understand how he could drink so much in spite of what it was doing to him and to us, he said there was no way I could ever expect to understand what his brain was telling him when mine wasn’t on his wavelength. Sane people cannot begin to understand what drives diseased minds like what we see with tfg. It is so far out of our realm of understanding, that we can’t wrap our minds around the why of his thinking. If he were just another bozo on a street corner soapbox, that would be different. And the thing now is, he’s got so many enablers that he can’t quit even if he wanted to; which he doesn’t.
No question that Trump will be a disgrace and dangerous if he ever gets near the Oval Office again. I think one of the dangers is that there seem to be a chunk of our population that is willing to ignore or excuse his rants, thinking that he's said all these crazy things before and the country didn't fall apart. But this time around he's got some likely additions to his administration (Stephen Miller, Kash Patel, etc) that will encourage his authoritarian inclinations. Not to mention the Heritage society playbook for Project 2025.
All the noise hopes to hide the real numbers. 80 percent of Americans choose freedom. What we need to worry about is the gerrymandering going on and Mike Johnson sitting up there pretty as he please ready to throw out the electoral votes and declare tfg the winner should he lose. That is what we need to worry about.
Scary Mike Johnson! Unfortunately I think your concerns about him are real. I can easily visualize him deciding to throw out the votes with a smile on his face and all the spineless republicans going along without an objection. Now that is some scary shit.
Government needs to be a vehicle for the people and society to organize and function as a whole. It currently appears to be a money concentrator with little other function than to pay politicians and bring them to opportunities for their own enrichment. Add vengeance to that and it all falls apart. We need a plan for the people to follow going forward and it appears it will have to be a grass roots one. Not much will change in how the government is dysfunctioning as long as those benefiting are making the decisions.
No it’s not. It never has been but for too long now, an awful lot of people treated our right to vote as though it were a popularity contest for Mr. or Mrs. Personality if we bothered to get out to vote at all. Our voting percentages have always been abysmal considering that we have always extolled our democratic principles to the world. As is so often said, if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. That goes for all we’ve held dear for as long as we can remember. This is why we have got to answer this call to protect what’s left of this country in overwhelming numbers everywhere so there can be no denial of the outcome by tfg or anyone or we can kiss our country and our collective butts good-bye.
He will NOT be re-elected. He has lost more of the mainstream GOP voters with all the exposure of his malfeasance - and can only rely on his fanatic minority core. DO we need to be vigilant? yes, but if we act collectively we can "bury him".
Exactly, and not a moment too soon. There are many of us who care, in this group and others, like Heathers, who have the means to communicate clearly and get involved in the process. There are resources to be utilised, like Jessica Craven, with her long lists of what can actually be done. My frustration is how do we stay in contact to carry out the work. Our various local levels is most likely the best start, but keeping clear heads in contat for strategies and sharing is critical.
He wants to make us afraid to vote. Give me a break. See his rhetoric (if you can call it that) as a smokescreen so that we become the dupe like Harvey Oswald. Too high a price to pay if you ask me.
At my age (76) I find the thought of it being re-elected a total horror. He is all about power and himself. He cares nothing about the American people. This is not the proper thing to say but if he were kell over I would gladly get on a plane to dance on his grave. And I am terrified of flying!
This has gotten beyond serious Joyce. I have to agree with TCinLA and am wondering if there are any state governors who still believe in the rule of law, who are taking measures to protect their citizenry should it come down to that?
Unfortunately we're dealing with far too many people who believe the 90-year old myth that "it can't happen here."
It’s happened here before in 1860. It has happened with Huey Long in Louisiana with a credible threat to go nationwide. It was attempted by Father Coughlin in a conspiracy with Nazi Germany. If that sounds familiar to you as similar to today’s relationship between MAGA, Russia, and Hungry, you’re not wrong.
George Wallace’s name might be added to your list of the usual suspects.
May dumpty suffer the same fate.
A million yikes🥸
Chilling! I read about this in Rachel Maddow’s book, “Prequel”. A close call but for a few brave and persistent people.
Sorry! Rachael Maddow wrote Prequel. (Just discovered Substack edit. Yea!
🤬
For Black people in the South, it happened for almost a century. I wish more white people realized this. The "it can't happen here" delusion has a strong racial component. At least more and more women are catching on to the "Handmaid's Tale" corollary. I guess we've got to thank SCOTUS for pointing it out in the Dobbs decision.
The Handmaids tale should be required reading (or, watching) for everyone in America. Especially with Mike Johnson at the helm in the House.
The SCOTUS majority doesn't inspire much confidence either. :-(
Rachel Maddow's new book, Prequel, tells the story of the Nazi activity in America in the lead up to WWII. The resemblance to today is remarkable and frightening, right down to building the wall. Yes, that wall.
If in 1860 the internet existed with social media, the results could've been very different.
Quite true. But we should consider that there are millions of Americans who WANT it to happen here. They want an authoritarian strong man to "restore America" - bring it back to a time when women knew their place and white men could flex their bigoted muscles against the "others".
It really feels like Lindbergh is still with us...but wait! Is he reincarnated as Musk?
Bill, While I don’t dispute your point, I would note that I choose to focus exclusively on certain facts: 40 states have voted the same way in the past 4 presidential elections, and a high share of states the same way since the beginning of the 21st Century. Accordingly, we’re down to a handful of swing states—probably Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, and likely Michigan as our true swing states and only a handful of votes among them. In a word, if we’re to hold the presidency, while we should compete everywhere, we’re going to need to be laser-focused in relatively few places.
On a final, more personal note, I have difficulty claiming we live in a democratic republic when, out of 330 million people, some 400,000 decide presidential elections. Still, my most successful strategy to date has been spreading Rebecca Solnit’s astute observation that “a vote is a chess move, not a valentine.”
Your statement about 400,000 people out of 330 million deciding the outcome of the election is why we need to abolish the Electoral College. If we didn’t have the electoral college we would have had Gore over Bush and Clinton over TFG.
Mike, Admittedly, you’re right. However, I am aware of only two options—one to abolish the electoral college, the other to render it irrelevant, neither of which is possible in the foreseeable future.
The first entails amending the Constitution requiring a two-thirds majority in both U.S. Chambers and ratification by three-fourths of the States. The second, the National Interstate Compact, requires enough consenting States to reach a 270 electoral vote threshold. For some time, we’ve been stuck in the low 190s largely due to highly gerrymandered state legislatures.
I think we’re closer now than that with the interstate compact. I thought it was closer to 220. Still, too far to go and Republicans really don’t want that, seeing as how they’ll never win a popular vote.
I thought it was closer too. I feel the Interstate Compact is the best and easier way to get around the electoral college. A Constitutional Amendment would be more permanent in my opinion. The Compact would be open to states withdrawing down the road.
Jen, Thank you for commenting. I did my homework and learned, until recently, the number stood at 205. Minnesota’s 10 electors then raised the number to 215, where it currently stands. The good news is that Michigan, with its current trifecta, shortly is expected to add its 15 electors bringing the total to 230. Of course, as Mike, who is part of this thread, aptly noted, if state legislatures flip, states could withdraw. Still, if we retake the U.S. House, hold our 49 U.S. Senate seats (excluding Sinema and, of course, Manchin), flip 1 Republican Senate seat, and hold the White House, we could pass the Freedom to Vote Act, whose federal provisions would include enlisting nationwide independent commissions to draw district lines. Because state legislatures are subject to regulations of Congress, we would have a real shot at reaching the 270 threshold.
Postscript: I just read Judith’s comment, as part of this thread, and the only thing I can figure is I missed, as of this month, that some states have withdrawn from the Compact.
"As of December 2023, 16 states and Washington, D.C., had adopted legislation to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Together, they represent 195 Electoral College votes." https://ballotpedia.org/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
Judith, As my comment to Jen, who is part of this thread, shows, the count had stood at 215 and it appeared it was about to reach 230. Presuming the site you reference is accurate, it seems states that had been part of the Compact very recently have withdrawn.
The Electoral College and the Senate give more representation to land than to people. Based on the population of Wyoming, California should have 132 senators. The EC and the Senate can only be changed by Constitutional Amendments. However, EC members of each State could be apportioned by the percentage of popular vote by State laws. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation
Gerrymandering should be illegal under Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964), this Court held that the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment includes a "one-person, one-vote" principle.
The Senate should change its own rules to eliminate the filibuster and the kind of single Senator holds like the one recently used the moron Tommy Tuberville.
Unfortunately our government was created to serve the wealthy and is now effectively managed by Wealthy White Male Christian Nationalists that through their control of media keep the population at war with itself. They are one election away from gaining a vice grip on the throat of democracy.
This would be a super topic for an educational documentary. Especially since the electoral college was established when there were thirteen colonies. We lost a lot during the Bush Junior years when he established ‘no child left behind’ for K-12 education, a failed program that focused on math and science to the exclusion of civic and history. The result has been an entire generation of individuals who simply have no comprehension of governance. But a well done documentary with the essence of how the electoral college has impacted their own votes, may help people understand and fix the knowledge gap. ‘Who asks the question’ is always the big deal. I’m wondering if Oprah would narrate? It’s so vital to have the public behind any kind of major constitutional change. And what could be more important than informing them why their vote doesn’t always count.
Frightening, but it could be different. That's precisely why historic GOTV efforts are needed across the nation in 2024 to soundly reject the Orange scourge that threatens the nation. I'm increasingly skeptical that the Judicial branch is going to bail us out in this upcoming election.
@Just Sayin’, While I agree massive voter mobilization is essential if we’re to repudiate Trump and Trumpism in 24 and beyond, my point was to amplify the importance of strategy. Let’s remember, though Biden, in 2020, won by 7 million votes, but for 40,000 votes across 3 states— Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona—Biden would have lost to Trump.
As for the courts, though, overall, they’ve held up, since 2020, better than I had anticipated, our greatest guardrail would be an overwhelming, crushing Republican defeat.
Barbara, I’m sure you’re aware but the over and covert suppression of votes in Georgia is truly frightening. For example, not having enough polling places open and not allowing friends of voters to supply them with water or any kind of food as they stand in line for hours.
Valere, Thank you for writing. While I’m well aware of Georgia’s long history of voter suppression tactics, the sheer will of its residents to cast their votes in 2020, fueled, I imagine, by organizations like Fair Fight and the New Georgia Project, invariably will motivate groups like The States Project to lend substantial support.
Braves!
Gloria, I’m unable to comment because I don’t follow your point.
Musk is definitely scary. He has crossed the rubicon and turned into a madman.
He controls the internet in parts of the world. And the US gave him control of our space program. It ain't right.
"X" marks the spot where he has demonstrated his madness. Allow Alex Jones back on "Twitter"? Why not invite Putin?
All hail “free” enterprise
Don’t want to like this but here we are.
They not only think it can't happen here but it won't happen to them.
Exactly.
Sinclair Lewis should be on everyone’s reading list.
As should "Prequel" by Rachel Maddow.
And 1619.
And Caste
Caste wasn't an eye opener for me, but glad it's out there.
If only the rest of America had your level of insight
And Rachel’s “Ultra” podcast!
Recently listened to Ultra and have recommended it to many friends.
absolutely
And "The Plot Against America", by Phillip Roth.
I certainly will. Thx🙋♀️
Then show them graphic pictures of the death and destruction of innocent citizens in Ukraine and Gaza. Netanyahu, putin, and the orange traitor are peas in the same poison pod. Some of it may get through, and if it convinces just a few of the danger, then that is progress.
I think 911 may have been the first overt action in our country.
Candidly, count me one of them. Perhaps, I’m a foolish girl, but I think not.
I hope you are right. Perhaps you're more a believer in "It can happen here, but not if we work our tails off to prevent that."
Joyce, your warning about Trump by illustrating his direct connection to Argentina's recently elected president, Javier Milei, was very effective. Subscribers with Civil Discourse know what we are facing, what this country and the world are facing if Trump's is elected to the presidency. The trouble is - and it is a big trouble that President Biden, his team and the Democratic Party are not doing what you have just done - sent us THE MESSAGE. The US and the world are in double trouble because this message is NOT going out to the American people.
Every day I get millions of messages asking for money. It’s not working. Dems must unite behind Biden. I’m sick and tired of progressives throwing everything out of wack. It’s bad enough with the Mag crowd. Come up with a plan for god’s sake and talk to us directly. Hold a round table and show us how you plan to regain your self respect for all of us. Pontificating sounds like hot air. Show us. That’s what your leader Biden is doing but he needs a cohesive playing field. Were scared out here!
Your point about Progressives throwing everything out of whack is spot on! Dems and Progressives waste entirely too much time squabbling over perfect messaging rather than uniting.
It’s got to stop. We’re tetering on a ledge out here and who will save us???? We need for dems to work together to help us climb out of this mess. Bickering all the time serves none of us especially with the real threat of losing our democracy.
The young Berniecrats who could not morally vote for Clinton, even as Bernie implored them to, gave us t-Rump. Jill Stein, Putin's buddy, did not help.
Whatever can be said about Repub party (and theres a lot) they stick together! Why pray tell, is that so hard for Dems to learn? And yes, as Ransom Rideout said - the bunch who couldnt "morally" vote for Clinton or voted for a 3rd party? How is that in any way shape or form - morality? Certainly sounds more like unintelligent people who didnt get their way!
Exactly what I feel and think!
TutoneSF, I’m right there with you. I have been “shoveling”money at Dem candidates, but lately I have become pretty depressed about the situation you describe. I’m now thinking “we grass root Dems are carrying a big part of the financing to get Dems in. What are we getting for the dollars we donate? Who’s listening? Grrrr!😾
I keep running into people who buy the tripe. I am not subtle or respectful any longer. I simply say, "Don't vote for Trump. Just don't do it!" I get some shocked expressions, but if they say anything more, I say he is a criminal several times over. I no longer list the good things Biden has done. My message is so adamant that at least they are thinking now...I hope.
Not just a criminal...he wants to be a dictator, not a president. He’ll tear up the Constitution.
Good idea. Trying to reason with idiots isn’t helpful. Call him a criminal, a sociopath. Because he is.
Just tell people that Trump & the Republican Party have turned into "an authoritarian movement." Because it's the truth.
Messages are what the Dems have always NEVER had. So effing frustrating!!
On top of THIS, Biden's team and Democratic Party's failure to get the message out about Trump and the rest of the traitors may be lethal, beyond imagining!
It really is. It’s a total weakness and we know Biden nor Harris are quiet. I would like for Joe to be a little more demonstrative. I want him to adopt Katie Porter’s white board. That inexpensive tool serves an important purpose. Why? Because illustrations and/or numbers burns a hole in listeners of watchers brains. People actually will pay attention. We simply cannot depend on The Lincoln Project to do the work for us.
Katie Porter and her white board have done and could do so much - IF enough people watched C-span and Utube! She is a true educator and very down to earth, which is needed.
Fern, President Biden really can’t discuss Trump and his many crimes by messaging the citizens of this country, as in a speech. Trump has been indicted. There are trials coming up. Everyone is sweating and shallow-breathing in wait for Justice to make its next move.
Biden can’t interfere or I am sure he would have by now.
I’m so tired. And not because the process moves so slowly, but because so many people criticize our heavy weight dragon slayers for not saying or doing something to soothe our fear, impatience and frustration.
Susan, Biden and all pro-democracy advocates absolutely must address truthfully, clearly and dramatically how Trump and the other traitors have hurt the vast majority of Americans; what the traitors' plans are as well as how the US and the world will be damaged much more severely, ending Democracy in this country. We do not know, you and I, what was lost in the time it took for the Justice Department to indict the former president. The fact that 'justice' if it does come about -- working slowly does not automatically mean working smartly. I don't know why you think attacking the traitors for what they have done and telling Americans in plain English about their plans, bulleting their written schemes, would have any negative effect on the four criminal indictments that were filed against Trump, two indictments on state charges (one in New York and one in Georgia) and two indictments (as well as one superseding indictment) are on federal charges. These indictments amount to a total of 91 felony charges. Democracy, what we have left of it, hangs in the balance. The American people must be informed as much as possible when they vote in the upcoming elections.
We both agree on what needs to be said truthfully, clearly, and dramatically. My thought has to do with Biden himself saying it. I believe he will speak at a time he chooses, however.
Doesn’t it seem like the defense would use anything Biden says to their benefit at trial? And the anti Biden Trump devotees and the media that supports them will take over the news cycle for weeks and would misrepresent Biden’s words and pump air into the “crime family” and “Hunter”and the “impeachment” bit, and especially do their predictable turn-around and say it’s Joe Biden who is trying to do what he accuses Trump of doing?
I agree with you. He is a sitting President and has to act like one. He can’t reinforce the moron party’s claim of doing what the TOT (Tiny Orange Turd) is doing.
I also beleive he’s keeping powder dry. While WE are watching and wringing our hands, most of the country is even more tired than we are.
Let them be tired, gather their strength. They’ll turn to this next year, and that’s when the big guns come out.
Patience isn’t my strong point either.
Yes. That’s when adrenaline will replace the fatigue. I don’t think I’ll ever look at a Tater Tot the same way again. :)
And Fern, just on the other side of my brain I want to call their bluff and go after them tooth and nail, relentlessly. Now.
But it’s chess.
But the dumpty devotees already do that and when there is silence rather than speaking out - they take advantage of it. Look at the one instance of Hunter Biden standing up & telling it how it IS got a LOT of publicity - possibly even doing some enlightenment right there & it was a very short instance. All that silence before that only allowed the naysayers to fill it themselves!
Good point. I loved that Hunter did that.
And owned up to what he was actually guilty of. Kind of a novelty today!
Susan, my thoughts after reading your reply was that it illustrated why Biden may appear weak, old, lacking in passion and fight needed win battles against our foes. It also reminded me of the weakness that has prevailed in messaging by the Democratic Party. This is just a review, Susan, we differ in our approach to winning.
I don’t have a strategy for winning. I don’t perceive Biden as That Guy that many have said he is. A good deal of the problem of the apparently weak messaging by democrats is that there is a two ton psychotic gorilla always ten feet away waving his arms and scaring everyone. What possible message can penetrate that? Plus, anything you say is fodder to use against you. That’s how they play.
Just to be clear “That Guy” refers to the constant harping on Biden’s feebleness. Bodies weaken and sometimes they don’t do what used to be easy, but the mind that holds inside is sharp and experienced. Biden is making and keeping friends internationally. What could be more important now? Young folks don’t understand about getting old, but they will, hopefully.
Dems need a narrative--short and pithy. Creativity is not really my field, but what about: "Would you want your son or child to grow up to be like Donald Trump--a relentless liar and cheat, only concerned for his own interests, bullying the weak and defenseless, and always claiming at the end to be the victim." ?? Is that the man you'd like your kid to model?"
It's always 'their' fault.
PS Without a strategy, you won't win! I'm for planning; knowing the weak spots of the foe and going forward with organization, money, a growing number of supporters and a strong winning spirit.
...Intervene, not interfere.
Interesting interchange (Susan and Fern). What you both say outlines the dilemma. The bottom line is VOTE FOR BIDEN! The "orange alternative" will destroy us!
Fern, Thank you for writing. In a moment, I plan to quote from Rachel Maddow from precisely a month ago. But, first, I want to clarify that I view her statement as providing Democrats with somewhat of a map for inextricably linking their Republican counterparts, were they to remain silent, with every aspect of Trump’s terrifying Project 2025.
Starting with the question, What is the institution that decides we never can espouse “what Trump has in store for us…” (Joyce) and also be part of said institution, also represent it, Maddow asserts, “There is only 1. It’s Trump’s political party. And when he is running to be the Republican nominee for President of the United States, he is contending to lead that party, while promising that he will build camps to hold millions of people in this country, and he will use the military against American civilians here at home, and his political opponents are vermin who will be crushed and exterminated.”
Maddow continues, “This is Trump testing the political party he says he is going to lead. Testing to see what they will tolerate as an institution. Which means every single member of that party will now have to answer whether this is who they are, whether this is what they stand for, whether this is the cause of their party.”
Maddow concludes, “A country under threat stands up for itself when the institutions that make up the civic and political life of that country stand up and say what they are for and what they no longer can stand.” She finishes by reinforcing “there only is 1 institution in this country that is implicated by what Trump is doing and he is testing them and that is the point where we are right now. Trump has forced it there.”
What now?” she asks.
As I intimated at the outset, I am most eager to spread Maddow’s framing, if you will, for holding Republican’s feet to the fire. My apologies for the cliche, but it’s been a long year.
Barbara, I watch Rachel Maddow's Show and saw the program you referred to. She does a good job of presenting cogent themes and making connections. There are, however, a number of ways to skin the traitors and tie them tightly to the fascism they espouse and act out.
Fern, While I agree with your point, I also have field-tested Maddow’s precise language and stratagems to great effect, particularly on matters wherein the Republican Party has been silent. To that end, I thought it worthwhile to reprint some of her text if only to suggest an approach for not allowing Republican equivocations to go unanswered. Moreover, I would note, for what it’s worth, I was so inspired by Maddow that I have presented her framing, so to speak, to leadership.
That said, I would find it most helpful were you to elaborate on some of your ideas.
Republicans do not deserve America. They enjoy our freedoms while seeking to destroy democracy.
Well said. Just like billionaires enjoy our courts but don’t want to pay for them.
Thank you for this excellent reminder. We must vote for President Biden.
💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
Joyce is not being alarmist. Like Miley. Like Hitler for that matter. Trump has told us what he would do if he were President again. We must stop him and we should be able to. Democrats have been winning elections. What we need is money. Donate to Joe Biden now. Donate to the vulnerable Senators. Donate to the few vulnerable Dem members in the House. And donate to democrats who can flip sears in the Senate and the House. That is a lot of money? Especially if you donate every month. But what is a free society worth?
Although I agree and do donate, I find it absolutely shameful that we are asked to donate money to see our message get out. What about folks who agree but need to buy groceries, kids shoes and gas. Money cannot be the measure of our ability to engage in civil discourse.
Jessica Craven's "Chop Wood, Carry Water" Substack provides low- to very low-cost actions with easy to follow links and scripts:
https://chopwoodcarrywaterdailyactions.substack.com/
Yes, she is great.
Praxis (process) in Politics: Per the Wikipedia definition, " ... the free, universal, creative & self-creative activity through which ( a human) creates & changes (our) World & (ourselves).
In other words: chop wood & carry water daily. : )
Those who can, do it for those who can't. Money is not a measure, it is a tool, a very powerful one.
Totally agree. It’s been frustrating me for a long time.
Spot-on; well articulated... I give monthly whatever I can.
And I too. Groups like us, and the the huge numbers of Heather's and others fans can make a real difference if they get out and do something. I just suggested "Voters of Tomorrow a few minutes ago as an example of a group geared to reach many potential voters, young and necessary.
Supporting democracy can be done by donations and actions through grassroots organizations, including:
Voters of Tomorrow
Red, Wine, and Blue
League of Women Voters
Civic Influencers
Civics Center
Field Team 6
Postcards for Voters
Jessica Craven's "Chop Wood, Carry Water" Substack breaks it down with easy to follow links and scripts:
https://chopwoodcarrywaterdailyactions.substack.com/
Ellie, you didn't get down to my original comment. That is just what I suggested. My long list wasn't at my fingertips, but I used Jessica and Voters of Tommorrow as examples. Letter writing to environmental organizations is important too, because of their huge member and supporter base that could be mobilized to campaign to save our nation so that there would be a government with departments to act upon their issues, if we stop Trump. I could go on and on, but I did way down the feed.
I have been yammering to everyone to stay in touch with Jessica.
Excellent--the more that word gets out on what we can do, the better. Pulling out all the stops in 2024!
Writing to environmental organizations.not only because of there huge member/supporter database, the flame to light under them is that by continuing "Busines as usual, it can't happen here" will ensure that it DOES happen here and pogressive business interfereing activists will be the first to go. Tell them "That's you, baby" That might get there attention. I will go over this with Jessica. She is near me and just got electeted to the DCC board.
I give a dollar here and there but I don’t have it to spare.
Me too. Small dollar amts. I also don't have a lot to share. Wish I had millions to make sure trump doesn't get a second term. That scares the bajesus out of me. Our country would be lost forever.
The more I research and delve deeper into their crazy world, you can see that they have been planning this a very very long time. Us democrats weren't paying enough attention. Are we to
Late to stop them??
That is what I was ranting about a few mnutes ago. We have to cut out the out knowing history shit and get to work.
Joyce, if Trump is elected you and your family are in grave danger as I’m sure you realize having looked into the merciless eyes of sadistic criminals during your career. Every publicly vocal person like yourself who calls for Trump’s punishment is already on his list of enemies to be silenced. Please know that I understand my warning sounds hysterical to some ears. A good friend escaped Argentina with her life after the coup there in the 1970’s after many thousands of ordinary citizens were “disappeared.” She was a progressive psychiatrist and almost all her friends were rounded up- many were tortured before they died. She told me- “Michael, it was like living in a dream- I couldn’t believe it was really happening.”
Trump is a malignant narcissist and he burns with an inescapable homicidal rage for anyone who openly threatens his power over others.
Anyone reading this just now- please close your eyes for a second and get in touch with the fear you feel if Trump were to see the things you have written or said about him.
As a practicing psychologist for almost 45 years, I know what Trump has planned and it’s not just political retribution- it’s the nightmare of personally relishing his sadistic revenge.
The most important thing Liz Cheney said was that Trump will not abide by any court rulings if he’s president again. That means that with people like Jeffrey Clarke as acting AG, Cash Patel as acting secretary of defense, Mike Flynn as acting Chairman of the joint chiefs and Steven Miller as acting director of homeland security, nothing can stop Trump from shutting down msnbc and other media outlets and newspapers, after he declares martial law on January 21, 2025. He can and will start rounding up his enemies.
After my friend escaped Argentina in the late 1970’s after the coup, it was discovered that there were 360 secret internment camps across the country where the “disappeared” had been taken to, tortured for information and then murdered.
Dr. Cornwall, you are not hysterical in any way. Those ears that know not of what you speak must be educated, somehow, as difficult as it might be. Chile also then as well. All the banter upon the death of Kissinger only brought up rage in me, as all I could think of was the songs of Victor Jara, who sang loudly to his people in the stadium as they broke his fingers, mercilessly.
Ransom- Thank you. The quick descent of a population into submission under dictatorial rule always involves the use of physical torture to enforce compliance by instilling the terror of suffering unbearable pain. My friend who escaped the coup in Argentina told me about the network of torturers that got information about her and other opponents of the new rulers by torturing her friends.
Oh man, someone inevitably breaks. If history is any guide, our tax dollars paid for the worst of it, around the world. Those of us who understand will be the first looked for, I suppose. I used to think that they did not have enough bullets for all of us, but that has changed, drastically.
An art professor of mine, back in the late 60s, was a student at the Bauhaus and barely escaped Germany and caught a boat to Recife and made his way far up the Amazon, knowing he would not be found. He lived with the indigeoness untill he found out the war he missed was over and his artwork reflected a concioseness totally devoid of Europe. So many interesting stoties out there.
Yes Ransom. The spiritual darkness soon grows into a nightmare existence. My psychiatrist friend who escaped Argentina told me that some of the mental health professionals who were tortured were given the choice to die or to become torturers of new victims- those now broken souls who had spent their lives relieving emotional suffering, now were inflicting suffering to extract information about possible people who were disloyal to the new regime. She said that those mental heath professionals became the most effective torturers.
Like on J6.
Yes- and Trump was sadistically excited when he saw that Pence actually might get strung up by the neck by the mob.
I know this is a ignorant response. But why does he want to be this way? I don’t understand it... people want to live and enjoy their lives and he just wants to destroy it. It’s very frustrating to understand.... peace all.
Trump is a narcissistic criminal sociopath.
exactly; spot-on... an evil, empty soul that is purely transactional capitalism it its worst. The product of a father of exactly the same fiber who chose him to be his next-in-line-to-the throne.
Mike, I'm old enough to remember the radio serial, "The Shadow", whose slogan was "Who Knows What Evil Lurks in the Heart of Men?" (incorrect grammar, but oh well). My point being, we can't imagine the depth of evil in some, because it isn't in us. But DJT, on the other hand, revels in his twisted path to power, and laying clues for us on the way. He's a madman.
Me too.
My thought: He's evil.
Power corrupts...absolutely. He got a taste and wants it
all.
Trump desperately...really really desperately NEEDS to be reelected just so he can escape prison. He knows he is guilty of numerous crimes. He knows he is a con man. He is just like Netanyahu. He doesn't care what it takes to elude imprisonment. Doesn't matter how many people are hurt or killed. He is a wounded and caged beast. He will do anything to escape. But he won't. He is doomed. Good.
But will he ever pay for his crimes? I'm really beginning to wonder....
Exactly.
I will tell you what my late husband told me many years ago. He was an alcoholic and two drinks would make me sick. When I told him that I could not understand how he could drink so much in spite of what it was doing to him and to us, he said there was no way I could ever expect to understand what his brain was telling him when mine wasn’t on his wavelength. Sane people cannot begin to understand what drives diseased minds like what we see with tfg. It is so far out of our realm of understanding, that we can’t wrap our minds around the why of his thinking. If he were just another bozo on a street corner soapbox, that would be different. And the thing now is, he’s got so many enablers that he can’t quit even if he wanted to; which he doesn’t.
Trump wants every thing and his way all the time. If he can’t, then no one can (read: he’ll burn it all down so no one can)
He had a sick father who passed on his love of greed to an eager wanna be. Indoctrinated beyond repair.
Because otherwise, in a lawful society, he goes to prison for life.
Prayers for our country🙏🏼🙏🏼☮️
No question that Trump will be a disgrace and dangerous if he ever gets near the Oval Office again. I think one of the dangers is that there seem to be a chunk of our population that is willing to ignore or excuse his rants, thinking that he's said all these crazy things before and the country didn't fall apart. But this time around he's got some likely additions to his administration (Stephen Miller, Kash Patel, etc) that will encourage his authoritarian inclinations. Not to mention the Heritage society playbook for Project 2025.
All the noise hopes to hide the real numbers. 80 percent of Americans choose freedom. What we need to worry about is the gerrymandering going on and Mike Johnson sitting up there pretty as he please ready to throw out the electoral votes and declare tfg the winner should he lose. That is what we need to worry about.
Scary Mike Johnson! Unfortunately I think your concerns about him are real. I can easily visualize him deciding to throw out the votes with a smile on his face and all the spineless republicans going along without an objection. Now that is some scary shit.
Miller is gestapo crazy and Patel. Not sure what he is other than deranged. Psychos. Like to meet them....dark alley. Hey I played foofball, Lolol.
Vote Democratic in 2024. Fascist criminals like TFG must not be voted into office.
Putin Jr waiting to take a permanent hold on all of our freedoms.
We are aware.
We are awake.
We are motivated.
Vote Blue.
Government needs to be a vehicle for the people and society to organize and function as a whole. It currently appears to be a money concentrator with little other function than to pay politicians and bring them to opportunities for their own enrichment. Add vengeance to that and it all falls apart. We need a plan for the people to follow going forward and it appears it will have to be a grass roots one. Not much will change in how the government is dysfunctioning as long as those benefiting are making the decisions.
What Trump wants Trump Will Never Get!
I am not wagering: this not a spectator sport.
No it’s not. It never has been but for too long now, an awful lot of people treated our right to vote as though it were a popularity contest for Mr. or Mrs. Personality if we bothered to get out to vote at all. Our voting percentages have always been abysmal considering that we have always extolled our democratic principles to the world. As is so often said, if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. That goes for all we’ve held dear for as long as we can remember. This is why we have got to answer this call to protect what’s left of this country in overwhelming numbers everywhere so there can be no denial of the outcome by tfg or anyone or we can kiss our country and our collective butts good-bye.
We are in this together. Will stand against this.
How can we stand against this evil if this man is re-elected? He just ordered the military to gun us down as we protest in the streets!!!!
He will NOT be re-elected. He has lost more of the mainstream GOP voters with all the exposure of his malfeasance - and can only rely on his fanatic minority core. DO we need to be vigilant? yes, but if we act collectively we can "bury him".
Exactly, and not a moment too soon. There are many of us who care, in this group and others, like Heathers, who have the means to communicate clearly and get involved in the process. There are resources to be utilised, like Jessica Craven, with her long lists of what can actually be done. My frustration is how do we stay in contact to carry out the work. Our various local levels is most likely the best start, but keeping clear heads in contat for strategies and sharing is critical.
I am hoping you are right... but he scares me nonetheless...
Isn’t fear one of several right responses to this bad man? Yes it is. Let’s use it to end him. Together.
I believe you are right in that assessment.
Ergo, we must assure that he is not re-elected! As Thom Hartmann says, "Tag, you're it!"
He wants to make us afraid to vote. Give me a break. See his rhetoric (if you can call it that) as a smokescreen so that we become the dupe like Harvey Oswald. Too high a price to pay if you ask me.
At my age (76) I find the thought of it being re-elected a total horror. He is all about power and himself. He cares nothing about the American people. This is not the proper thing to say but if he were kell over I would gladly get on a plane to dance on his grave. And I am terrified of flying!
This has gotten beyond serious Joyce. I have to agree with TCinLA and am wondering if there are any state governors who still believe in the rule of law, who are taking measures to protect their citizenry should it come down to that?
There are many.