"Trump needs to be defeated by such overwhelming numbers of votes that it’s virtually impossible to claim fraud. We need to make sure it’s not close; that there is no vestige of legitimacy to his efforts to interfere with the election. As Americans, we are entitled to vote and to pick our own leaders. Increasingly, even those who have previously supported Trump are turning away."
I agree, but he lost by 7 MILLION votes last time and it didn’t matter. Merrick Garland and others better have a plan in place and ready to go. Or…should the faint of heart step aside now because we know repubs will call it politics and boo hoo their crocodile tears in any action to defend democracy.
Yo! If it's a landslide for Kamala, he'll say it must be fraud because it was a close election, everybody was saying it's gonna be a close election, blah, blah--even if that hasn't been true for weeks. He's batshit crazy, terrified of jail and cannot bear to lose. It is GREAT to know that local election officials are REQUIRED BY LAW to certify once the votes are counted. Knowing this, we can remain calm and resolute through his inevitable b.s. Thank you, Joyce. And cheers to the chickens.
The country had a relatively stable eight years under Barack Obama, not perfect but there was economic growth. However the aftermath of the Bush wars opened the doors of hell and the laws of unintended consequences dominated.
And it came to pass that as a new election neared in 2016, a creature walked to the stage to suspend reality and make enough voters believe that he would lead the nation to wealth and weapons for all.
Cajoled by this socially mangled, misanthrope who has perfected the fine art of the lie, bigotry and unfair tax relief for the wealthy, they naively followed this most foul leader off the cliff.
Wait. What am I doing here? Am I trying to present a logical reason why someone would not vote for Trump? That’s totally insane. That’s almost as insane as voting for Trump! Plus, having to go through all that socio-economic, psychological, and historical crapola is about as interesting as a Xarelto commercial. So, I’m going to reveal the cause of the disease that I am dubbing, “Trump Voterism” or simply, “TV”: a vicious parasite, mutated by toxins now allowed into our air, water and food by Trump’s relentless attempt to kill all of us by loosening our environmental regulations.
Not only does that explain the phenomenon, it also sets the stage for an entirely new series of blockbuster movies, all based around these parasitic mutants. Think The Purge meets Invasion of the Body Snatchers meets Citizen Kane meets Tremors.
There, can we move on to examining why people do other stupid things, like falling off a cliff while taking a selfie? (Smile)
I think if he loses by a landslide this time, the rich folks backing him are going to abandon him. I do wonder though if the "counting of votes" part is safe?
This is not the first go 'round for this scenario. The strange thing about the MAGA crowd is they never change their game plan, they just assume we will all forgot 1/6 and the rest of their shenanigans. No, we haven't. As Joyce has said, we are preparing, we will be prepared and they will be taken down. Once again. They really don't understand that we did believe them the first time. And we're not going back.
michelle, since any acts to not certify the votes is illegal, I am wondering if among the new powers the President has been given related to immunity, if he could order the votes counted in those contested districts with witnesses and on video. We don't have to do another 2000 with the Florida fraud, giving the election to the loser of the popular vote because Florida officials were trying to please their Gov., the brother of the losing candidate. We can do better this time no matter where. We have the technology.
Ruth, I really like your idea, given that apparently some of the groups in Georgia are threatening to stop the counts. That, in my mind, makes the legal process of resolving the issue much harder, because the lawyers won't have the proof of the count. I think, though, that the courts would force the count to be completed.
Personally I like the idea of the president declaring martial law and arresting all election obstructionists to be sent to Guantanamo. And after a brief a military hearing, placed on airplanes and, well, you know the rest. Please tell me if I’m being overly generous.
Have a Shark Week film crew bobbing in the ocean waiting for splashing fake electors.......Kotex Jesus will be calling them "losers" and "suckers".....finishing of a bucket of KFC in front of the TV.
Since those folks like overturning elections deport them to Venezuela, I am sure Maduro would find a use for them. Just be sure they are marked for 'special treatment' if they find their own way back to the U.S. border.
In Sarah Poshner's "Unholy" she lays out the Paul Weyrich/Heritage path that leads to November. 2025 is no joke. The fundamentalist cult is ready to go. Ukraine made a brilliant preventiative strike......President Biden has the power to do the same. In both cases, the fate of a nation is at stake. Both could become right wing fascist hellscapes.
President Biden possibly could have Trump charged for treason, aiding and abetting the enemy, stealing and selling classified documents putting national security at risk......(add on charges needed)
He could order a military tribunal and trial. Charges starting at solitary confinement for life.
It would indeed be nice if the vote was overwhelming, and for sure let's get as many people registered, motivated, mobilized to the election site, etc, etc.
So sorry if I sound like a broken record, but the legal remedies Joyce discusses are *after* the election. Trump has said that he has judges in place at the county level to support his challenges. So then it goes to Appeal, where the Trump will presumably lose but then Appeal to full circuit, and so on. Trump only has to screw around for 30 days.
What can be done before the election? For example, in March the ACLU said they would sue Georgia over 189 if Kemp signed; they didn't, but in early July they sent a letter to Raffensperger saying that they *might* pursue litigation if the state does not resolve the alleged violations to federal law within 20 days of that letter; they didn't. Or at least not yet.
I'd like to see some legal victories in place ahead of the game.
p.s. Did you see that Georgia absentee ballots now need to be fully counted by 8:00pm on the day of the election... What happens if they are not??
I looked further. There is a carve out for the military:
Notwithstanding any provision of this chapter to the contrary, until the United States Department of Defense notifies the Secretary of State that the Department of Defense has implemented a system of expedited absentee voting for those electors covered by this subparagraph, absentee ballots cast in a primary, election, or runoff by eligible absentee electors who reside outside the county or municipality in which the primary, election, or runoff is held and are members of the armed forces of the United States, members of the merchant marine of the United States, spouses or dependents of members of the armed forces or merchant marine residing with or accompanying such members, or overseas citizens that are postmarked by the date of such primary, election,
or runoff and are received within the three-day period following such primary, election,
or runoff, if proper in all other respects, shall be valid ballots and shall be counted and
It also says that absentee ballots that arrive on the day of the election will also be counted. So I guess military and "almost late" absentee ballots do not need to be counted by 8:00pm on the 5th, but all the other ones do.
The text is a bit tricky. Some more commas would help:
A county election superintendent may, in his or her discretion, after 7:00 A.M. on the day of the primary, election, or runoff begin tabulating the absentee ballots; provided, however, that all absentee ballots that have been verified and accepted pursuant to subparagraph (a)(1)(B) of this Code section by the Monday prior to the day of the primary, election, or runoff shall be tabulated and the results reported by no later than 8:00 P.M. on the day of such primary, election, or runoff or within one hour of the closing of all polls in such county, whichever occurs later.
What I think this means is that all absentee ballots that have been verified and accepted by Monday Nov 4th must be counted by evening of Nov 5th. The text does not say what happens to later ballots.
I recall in 2020 that Trump's Postmaster tried to cut back on service delivery of absentee ballots ahead of the elections. He backed down under the glare of publicity.
I am expecting more of the same from insiders willing to corrupt or spoil the process to win. It is gop intransigence on steroids now with not wanting America to vote - Only gop MAGA.
Looks like George Absentee Ballot Web Page has conflicting data:
Says specifically post marked by 5 November. Then a warning:
*Ballot Return: Ballots must still be received by the 3rd day after the election.
Please mail your voting materials early enough to account for mail delivery times. Check the recommended mailing dates section in Chapter 1 for details.
North Carolina (15) or Ohio (18) provides the cushion against Wisconsin and Nevada (total 16) going rogue. One state, batshit crazy Florida (29) could turn the election into a route, possibly beyond any tomfoolery Republicans can play. If only!
Can we urge the media to chase each of the 50 Governors to publicly commit that they will ensure that certification laws will be promptly enforced (especially Georgia and Nevada)?
For instance, we count on Kemp in GA to follow the law but we certainly cannot in Florida with DeSantis. We can count on Cooper the Democratic Governor in NC but not Abbott in TX. We can certainly count on Dem Gov Katie Hobbs in AZ. So it looks like it will end up ok because if we end up having won certified victories in GA, AZ and NC then FL and TX wouldn't be really in play early in November!
Recently completed primary election in AZ was certified with NO official drama. One county had some loud citizens, but no county official put himself or herself in legal jeopardy by threatening to not certify.
Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes launched investigations against two Cochise County supervisors who refused to certify the county’s 2022 midterm election results by the state-required deadline. The trial date for that case will be set in October.
Pinal County and Maricopa County both came close this time around and the bad actors only blinked because of threat of legal jeopardy. It was not just loud citizens. It was electoral officials.
More worrying, county attorney Kent Volkmer also said of Pinal County that if there had been another vote in agreement with Kevin Cavanaugh then he would have considered suspending the certification.
I'm reading a LOT of opinions from Texas organizers, that say the state very well COULD be in play, if they're able to get the registered Dem voters to the polls! Their projections include an estimated count of newly eligible young people, who are more engaged now that Harris/Walz are on the ticket - including those in rural areas of traditionally deep red counties. Since Texas has one of the worst voter turnout percentages in the nation, it would sure be a nice surprise to see a huge surge in Dem registration and actual participation!
Florida is not a battleground state, and neither is Texas. Both went red in 2020, but Biden still won. We need to concentrate on the states that can actually count to win.
Is this referring to the media that on a daily basis pretends that LDFF is a normal candidate, that profits from perpetuating the fable of a close horse race, that both-sides everything by insisting that there are only two perspectives?
That media?
What would be in it for them to do anything different? They PROFIT from all this chaos. They are complicit in perpetuating it.
Bob - Red state governors are already sending their Guard troops to Texas to participate in operation Lone Star. The Brookings Institution had a panel about this.
Quality exchange at 1:08:25- Lauren Voss, GW Law Prof and reservist: Gen Lengyel’s answer at 1:10:25 was excellent! Lafayette square company commander hypothetical; then Gen Lengyel’s conclusion: we need to rely on leaders who will do the right thing. Can we count on that?
Operation Lone Star disputes are making their way thru courts. The problem going forward is that these zealots do not care what the courts rule. The law of armed conflict that guides our military will be ignored.
What happens when Red State governors send their Army and Air Force Guard units to support Trump?
Jason Orcamoon, THANK YOU for taking this topic to a new level, with a very practical and actionable step of activating Guard units, preemptively. Many of us will be nervous that it sounds like the invocation of the Insurrection Act, and we really don't want a Repub President to do that in the future. But the discussion needs to be laid out now, openly putting this choice on the table and sensitizing everyone to the danger.
Bob - I just finished watching the debate and I’m now watching Gov Walz on the MSNBC post debate analysis.
Kamala kicked the Bouffant Buffoons ass! But, as that fact sinks into the minds of the Christofascists including Orban and Putin the threat level increases. The Secret Service needs to be at battle stations. A Putin poisoning is not impossible but more likely some US RWNJ will try.
This next few months will be the most dangerous of our lives.
Please tell me that it is not a possible to appeal the individual state’s judgment to SCOTUS.
We must continue to unify and do whatever we can to make sure DEMOCRACY will be safe. Join calling or text banks, write postcards, talk to friends and family. Read about Project 2025, so you are knowledgeable to ask and answer questions. Voting is a privilege. A great source to see if you are registered is Vote.gov
Voting is private. You DO NOT have to tell anyone how you are voting. If we all participate, we can and will defeat this horrible traitor and convicted felon who is the biggest liar (don-old/ don-con) and his sidekick jd.
I want to have JOY. I want Harris-Walz!! Join me.
Joyce, thank you for tonight. You have given me hope.
I believe Heather Cox Richardson had something to say about this in her recent Politics Chat August 13th that it can be appealed to SCOTUS. That is the bigger threat or a delay in getting all the votes certified on time in all 50 states or the former President and his Maga loyalists try to create so much havoc that things would go instead directly to the joint session of Congress who would give each state 1 vote to determine who would win. We MUST not allow any of these alternative realities to surface. We need to turn out in huge numbers and avoid violence at all costs. That is exactly what 45 wants. Remember that🇺🇸🗽🗳️🕯️🥁🕊️💙
Tutone, I, too, appreciate you writing. Presuming state-level voter suppression either at the front end or the back end creates sufficient chaos leading to challenges reaching either the Supreme Court or landing in the House, wherein Repubs control 26 delegations and Dems 23, with each getting 1 vote, Trump conceivably could become President. While I believe MAGA, for some time, has been laying the groundwork to ensure MAGA holds power whether or not its candidates receive enough votes, I believe we can avoid this eventuality if we all do our part. In my view, this translates not only in ginning up Democratic votes but also in getting involved in our respective communities doing all we can to ensure election laws are followed. Democracy Docket founder Marc Elias, who has done more to preserve election integrity than any other figure, is calling upon all of us to help ensure free and fair elections.
I may be wrong but doesn’t the new Congress certify the election? I’m trying to find this out. The new Congress goes in session January 3. Does anyone have that answer?
You're correct that the next Congress is seated on January 3 (Friday in 2025), with newly elected members sworn in. The joint session of the new Congress then ratifies the Electoral College vote count on January 6 (Monday in 2025). Congress approved new certification rules in December, 2022. Among the changes, instead of a single member of Congress able to object to certifying the vote from a state, it is now required that a minimum of 1/5 of each chamber for an objection to be raised.
There are other excellent amendments as well including the requirement that the governor of each state sign off on the slate of electors before submitting them.
Of course it can be appealed to SCOTUS, it's how we got the moron W, Roberts and Citizens United. Imo Roberts is worse than Thomas and Alito, a stealth "justice" who's too smart to show the contempt he has for the rest of us.
Exactly!! I have always thought Roberts was a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing justice and his pro 2025 colors have, recently, become very clear. I think he and Thomas and Alito thought T's election was so inevitable, that there was no longer any reason to even try and hide their complicity with such a fascist agenda.
SCOTUS is accountable to NOBODY. The buck stops with them. If SCOTUS decides that some frivolous election fraud case is somehow "constitutional," no man can stop them.
It would then be Trump standing before the inauguration officiate, (Chief Justice John Roberts,) instead of the EC winner, Kamala Harris.
Well ... yes, SCOTUS may have the final decision in such a case. But ... they have no, actual enforcement mechanism - all they have is a decision, reflected on paper. If they make a ruling that is based on clearly erroneous voting results and, therefore, against the will of the people, then his could be the makings of a true Constitutional crisis.
There is one and only one recourse to a corrupt SCOTUS decision (barring impeachment-which requires the political will and enough votes). That is restructuring the court. Impeachment is out until the votes are there. Mama Kamala will hopefully make inroads along that path. Vote like your freedom depends on it. We’re in this together and only together can we defeat the threats to our freedom.
When he loses, I would not be at all surprised if he leaves the country. I don't think he'd be welcome in Russia any more - Vlad's releasing of the prisoners to Joe was a pretty good sign that Putin is doubting he can win. But in the ...(ahem)..."interview" with elon the other day, didn't he say something about leaving for a non-extraditable country? I'll bet he's got a bunch of money already squirreled away where ever he's going.
Actually - as much as I would LOVE to see him thrown in prison - it would be almost as much fun to see the looks on the MAGAt faithful faces when they learn their dear leader is on the lam.
I agree with you about Putin’s deal with Biden. Putin must not think Trump will be elected, be too difficult to negotiate, or might believe Trump less relevant. That prisoner swap could not have happened without Putin’s blessing. It makes a big statement that the deal happened without Trump involved.
If Double dealing Donnie waits until the day after the election it may be too late to try and leave. For federal offenses going on the lam is in itself a criminal act known as unlawful flight to avid prosecution. But at the rate Democrats are pursuing suits (legislators) for their crimes I wouldn't be surprised if the DOJ under Sister Mary Garland helped them pack their suitcases, carry them to the cab, buy their plane tickets and help them board the plane. Anything but actually take an offensive and aggressive action like arrest the "magats". What about Vance, what will he do? He's a Yale lawyer; based on the performance of the legal profession for the past 4 years, aiding and abetting criminal defendants, including lawyers, only one has been suspended. The performance of the national bar association is better at supplying alibis for their abject failure to hold the lawyers in their respective local bar associations, and the judges, to take aggressive and punitive action against them for their misconduct.
I find the idea of him "on the lamb" highly unlikely. I think you are trying to put yourself in his position and then taking the path you would take. He's done so much wrong in his lifetime it's impossible to believe it! He won't go. He has a mantra pounded into him by his father, Fred, and Roy Cohn: "Never, ever, ever, admit you are wrong. Just call them liars and move on." He's a master of it, indeed, it's his major methodology of dealing with life. He'll stay here while whining, complaining, filing lawsuits, threatening, and name-calling ... like he always does. He knows no other.
Agree! I predicted he would flee and that would be as much “justice”as we can expect. Trump is 78 as his many cases will be tied up in appeals for years. By the time he’s be actually imprisoned he’ll be old and *acting* frail to get off easy. For now, large fines are painful. Let him go to Venezuelan in shame.
If Trump tries another coup attempt this time, let’s remember there’s not even any phony, made up, pretense of immunity for him to fall back on. He’s not the president. He’s just a citizen.
Double Dealing Donnie has been "just a citizen" since noon on January 20, 2020, yet he controls the US House and Senate, several state legislatures, and has managed to collude with the Senate leadership to buy the Supreme Court with all of the money he is supposed to owe the people of New York and Jean Carroll to the tune of $500 million dollars. Trump climbed up out of a New York sewer with Maggots attached to his back which is why he can be referred to in the language of a Veteran of Vietnam in the late sixties as a sewer rat and a guttersnipe.
And I would add, the Democratic President and his staff will be ready for any nonsense this idiot stirs up this go round. If any of his cult members are dumb enough to try to do anything remotely like Jan 6, DC is gong to be crawling with law enforcement, secret service, probably national guard. Those dumb asses have seen their brothers and sisters in arms went to jail for their stupidity and a lot of them are still there for quite some time. If they are dumb enough to try messing around again, they’re going to jail and, their dear leader won’t be able to do a damned thing to help them out as if he would in the first place. And the best thing is that all of those idiots still in jail can’t vote! It makes me giddy every time I think about it!
I wanted to make a statement about Trump's VP choice in the person of JD Vance of Ohio in the form of a fact Check.
FACT CHECK
JD VANCE MILITARY SERVICE
I was a Navy Corpsman in Vietnam, 1969/1970, a combat deployment with marines. I am a veteran. Mr. Walz is a veteran that served in a support capacity. Mr. JD Vance served for 6 months in Iraq as a “military journalist”(… He was part of the Public Affairs section of the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing) and is quoted as saying “lucky to escape any real fighting” Shkolnikova, Svetlana (July 16, 2024). "Vance credits service in Marine Corps for teaching him 'how to live like an adult'". Stars and Stripes. Archived from the original on July 20, 2024. Retrieved July 20, 2024
There were hundreds of thousands of women who were not allowed to serve in combat theaters, but who served in similar capacity until some time later. The Pentagon ban of 1994 against women in combat operation was overruled by Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta in 2013, to be official in 2016 when women became eligible to serve in any combat mission for which they qualified. It was my privilege to serve with a Navy Nurse who was awarded the Bronze Star for heroism.
Women have been serving in combat since WWI, WWII, Vietnam from the 1950s – 1975, which also includes the 1960s. Moreover, women served in Operation Desert Storm, Aug. 1990, and Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003-2011.
Mr. JD Vance disrespected all the women who have served in both capacities as in support of and directly involved in combat. Not only has he and double-dealing Donnie denigrated all the men and women who wore the uniform, but also the families of the men and women who paid the ultimate sacrifice and struggled to cope with the care of their families while they were deployed. Vance should know better because he served with women in Iraq. If I had the resources, I would be all over Vance’s service in Iraq and relationships with women there like white on rice.
There are three undisputed facts about veterans,
1. There is no such thing as an ex-Veteran
2. A veteran’s oath of office has no expiration date
3. If you wear the uniform and have an honorable discharge you are a veteran
Mr. Vance is as dumb as his running mate if he thought no one would investigate his military service. His own comment that he was “lucky to escape any real fighting” is a complete repudiation of his attack on Mr. Walz.
FACT CHECK #2
JD Vance is a lawyer, Yale, 2013. Rules of Professional Conduct at 8.4(c).
Rule 8.4 - Misconduct
It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:
(a) violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another;(b) commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;(d) engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice;(e) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official or to achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or(f) knowingly assist a judge or judicial officer in conduct that is a violation of applicable rules of: judicial conduct or other law.
The above highlighted portion (c) is a relevant portion of Section 8.4(c) that was specifically identified by the New York State Supreme Court as one of the offenses in its disbarment proceeding regarding Rudy Guliani.
The Comment section below explains the connection between the behaviors of Giuliani and Vance.
“Comment:
(1) Lawyers are subject to discipline when they violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so or do so through the acts of another, as when they request or instruct an agent to do so on the lawyer's behalf.
Although a lawyer is personally answerable to the entire criminal law, a lawyer should be professionally answerable only for offenses that indicate lack of those characteristics relevant to law practice. Offenses involving violence, dishonesty, breach of trust, or serious interference with the administration of justice are in that category. A pattern of repeated offenses, even ones of minor significance when considered separately, can indicate indifference to legal obligation.”
The Court explains in detail the number of times Guiliani lied to various entities like the press, the so-called hearing at Gettysburg on November 25, 2020 when Giuliani induced Donald Trump to participate by telephone and members of the Republican State Senate Majority Committee to conspire to overturn Pennsylvania election which is a violation of Rules 8.4(c), & 4.1, according to the Court’s order on pages 11-16 incl.
All the specific relevant facts that formed the basis of Mr. Guliani’s suspension by the court can be found in its entirety Supreme Court of the State of New York, Appellate Division, First Judicial Department Case#2021-00506.
If you read it, you will be able to determine the number of times Vance has lied under the same or similar circumstances. Every time Vance opens his mouth and spouts some venomous attack repeating Trumps assertions of fraudulent elections, or anything pertaining to the elections of 2020 and 2022, to raise money for what the timid mass media and timid Democratic party call election deniers. Vance opens the door for accusations of lawyer misconduct as explained under the rules cited above by the New York State Supreme Court.
Thank you for such a clear explanation of both the law and what it means to be in the military. I think for the latter, I intuitively knew what you stated, but was glad to see it in writing. I'd love to see Vance taken down the way Giuliani was.
Posted this before, but bears repeating. Orange 1, reading from his dog-eared 2020 playbook no doubt, has already said the election will be rigged and stolen. While the shenanigans -- illegal almost to a shenanigan --- being planned by the Dark Side could just as easily blow up in its face: hard to certify only your guy's votes on ballots and not the down ballot races that don't happen to go your way.
In any event, suggest you may want to read a new report from CREW ("Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington") a very effective nonpartisan nonprofit 501(c)(3) watchdog organization. "Election Certification Under Threat," lays out "a legal roadmap to protect the 2024 election including from 35 officials who have refused to certify results," according to the CREW site. The full report can be downloaded from the site via the link below.
All these shenanigans with the Georgia State Elections Board—just where is Raffensperger (whom Trump just gratuitously insulted)? Whither Kemp (ditto)?
I find myself wondering where their beliefs went. It seems like they are really on the trump bandwagon now, instead of the reasonable people they were in 2020.
Finally you are addressing the big future issue, Joyce. Thank you! BUT, of course, you are "the Law" and "of the Law", so your answer to the challenge coming, stays "within the Law". Based on my non-professional, but studied opinion of successful "usurpers" throughout history, they stay "outside the Law" when the takeover starts. Examples abound: Hitler burned down the Reichstag to declare marshal law, Maduro has his Military putschists by his side as he declares himself the winner, Putin burns down a good part of Moscow to take control, Caesar calls it the "will of the people" as he ends the Republic...etc. etc. etc. I think we should all be prepared for that, especially our current President and Executive who would then need to call out troops with sharp ammunition, not lawyers. I do fear...and I'd like to hear President Biden say it.
If we really want to prevent mischief from happening with proper election certification there must be a proactive preemptive strategy to ensure that the election remains free and fair throughout the entire process. This means identifying and singling out those who would attempt to interfere, and literally make them an offer they can’t refuse. This is not meant to be hyperbole, I am serious, these people have already shown us who they are and what they will do. We must deploy all necessary measures to get in the way ahead of time to prevent it.
This is where our free press will be critical. It has been often said that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant". A press that is aggressively engaged in scrutinizing all election related matters and getting all suspicious activity out in the open will not only deter malfeasance but aggressively reveal it. The power of the press to investigate, to question, to raise concerns, to expose (if I may use the expression) possible hanky-panky will put everyone on notice that our democracy will not tolerate the corruption of our cherished right to vote and to have our votes honestly counted.
I was a radio producer for 8 years and can, from my experience advise with high confidence that benevolent version of our for-profit 'media' is as realistic as any episodes of Criminal Minds, sorry to say.
Thank you. Will you please interview someone from the Brennan Center/Pitt Cyber or Rep. Chris Deluzio to talk more about this, since they deal more with it and cyber secuity issues?
How many millions of voters will naively believe we're all safe after Kamala wins in November?
“It’s not over until he puts his hand on the Bible and takes the oath. It’s not over until then. It’s not over on Election Day, it’s over on Inauguration Day[.]"
Am I crazy or missing something or am I seeing a scary loophole here?
“The [Georgia State elections] board has adopted RULES in the last few weeks that WOULD LET LOCAL OFFICIALS STOP VOTE COUNTS and delay or refuse to certify results if they believe there are any ‘irregularities.’”
“…the law is unambiguous about the duty to certify election results AFTER A VOTE COUNT.”
“These [county] officials are directed to certify votes ONCE THEY ARE COUNTED….”
“Georgia’s courts…have consistently ruled that certification of votes is ‘ministerial’—something officials must do ONCE THE COUNTS ARE COMPLETE.” [My capitalization]
Thank you for explaining all these nuances about the vote count. It has always been my biggest fear about the election. I feel more hopeful now, especially since I really believe at this point that if we get enough Harris-Walz supporters to the polls, it won't even be close.
Restacking with this bit from Joyce:
"Trump needs to be defeated by such overwhelming numbers of votes that it’s virtually impossible to claim fraud. We need to make sure it’s not close; that there is no vestige of legitimacy to his efforts to interfere with the election. As Americans, we are entitled to vote and to pick our own leaders. Increasingly, even those who have previously supported Trump are turning away."
I agree, but he lost by 7 MILLION votes last time and it didn’t matter. Merrick Garland and others better have a plan in place and ready to go. Or…should the faint of heart step aside now because we know repubs will call it politics and boo hoo their crocodile tears in any action to defend democracy.
Yo! If it's a landslide for Kamala, he'll say it must be fraud because it was a close election, everybody was saying it's gonna be a close election, blah, blah--even if that hasn't been true for weeks. He's batshit crazy, terrified of jail and cannot bear to lose. It is GREAT to know that local election officials are REQUIRED BY LAW to certify once the votes are counted. Knowing this, we can remain calm and resolute through his inevitable b.s. Thank you, Joyce. And cheers to the chickens.
Keep Kalm-ala and carry on!
Kalm-ala!!! Like that!!!
Falling into the Wrong Arms
(From "Donald's Vanity Tantrums")
The country had a relatively stable eight years under Barack Obama, not perfect but there was economic growth. However the aftermath of the Bush wars opened the doors of hell and the laws of unintended consequences dominated.
And it came to pass that as a new election neared in 2016, a creature walked to the stage to suspend reality and make enough voters believe that he would lead the nation to wealth and weapons for all.
Cajoled by this socially mangled, misanthrope who has perfected the fine art of the lie, bigotry and unfair tax relief for the wealthy, they naively followed this most foul leader off the cliff.
Wait. What am I doing here? Am I trying to present a logical reason why someone would not vote for Trump? That’s totally insane. That’s almost as insane as voting for Trump! Plus, having to go through all that socio-economic, psychological, and historical crapola is about as interesting as a Xarelto commercial. So, I’m going to reveal the cause of the disease that I am dubbing, “Trump Voterism” or simply, “TV”: a vicious parasite, mutated by toxins now allowed into our air, water and food by Trump’s relentless attempt to kill all of us by loosening our environmental regulations.
Not only does that explain the phenomenon, it also sets the stage for an entirely new series of blockbuster movies, all based around these parasitic mutants. Think The Purge meets Invasion of the Body Snatchers meets Citizen Kane meets Tremors.
There, can we move on to examining why people do other stupid things, like falling off a cliff while taking a selfie? (Smile)
I don't know about environmental toxins, but there is plenty of Trump propaganda on the airwaves. I think that is what's warping their perceptions.
“Keep Kalm-ala and carry on!”
Great bumper sticker!!
Love your last line! Vote, vote, vote!
I think if he loses by a landslide this time, the rich folks backing him are going to abandon him. I do wonder though if the "counting of votes" part is safe?
This is not the first go 'round for this scenario. The strange thing about the MAGA crowd is they never change their game plan, they just assume we will all forgot 1/6 and the rest of their shenanigans. No, we haven't. As Joyce has said, we are preparing, we will be prepared and they will be taken down. Once again. They really don't understand that we did believe them the first time. And we're not going back.
And last time Trump tried to pull this, he was the sitting president, and this time, he isn't. That matters.
michelle, since any acts to not certify the votes is illegal, I am wondering if among the new powers the President has been given related to immunity, if he could order the votes counted in those contested districts with witnesses and on video. We don't have to do another 2000 with the Florida fraud, giving the election to the loser of the popular vote because Florida officials were trying to please their Gov., the brother of the losing candidate. We can do better this time no matter where. We have the technology.
Ruth, I really like your idea, given that apparently some of the groups in Georgia are threatening to stop the counts. That, in my mind, makes the legal process of resolving the issue much harder, because the lawyers won't have the proof of the count. I think, though, that the courts would force the count to be completed.
Hopefully with the Presidency and Senate one of the first to go has to be the invertebrate Merrick Garland.
Worse than useless, his inaction caused these trials to start so late that THEY are useless, too.
Louis DeJoy and Merrick Garland. Buh-bye.
Merrick Garland is invisible. He could have acted after January 6, but chose to fiddle while Rome burned. Fainted hearted is generous.
Justice delayed has been justice denied -- to The People.
Milquetoast Garland, went overboard in his attempt to appear nonpartisan.
Personally I like the idea of the president declaring martial law and arresting all election obstructionists to be sent to Guantanamo. And after a brief a military hearing, placed on airplanes and, well, you know the rest. Please tell me if I’m being overly generous.
Forced to parachute out over the middle of the ocean where land is thousands of miles away?
What a waste of a perfectly good parachute.
Point taken. Just push them out the door. Or will you then say a waste of good fuel????? Thank you for a good laugh.
Have a Shark Week film crew bobbing in the ocean waiting for splashing fake electors.......Kotex Jesus will be calling them "losers" and "suckers".....finishing of a bucket of KFC in front of the TV.
Since those folks like overturning elections deport them to Venezuela, I am sure Maduro would find a use for them. Just be sure they are marked for 'special treatment' if they find their own way back to the U.S. border.
Gigi - I agree ... Thank you !!
Agreed!!
Merrick Garland???? He has been such an ineffective official. I hate to depend on him for anything
He WILL be overwhelmingly defeated. He KNOWS it.
And off to jail he goes…
Make it a blue tsunami. https://www.fieldteam6.org/
In Sarah Poshner's "Unholy" she lays out the Paul Weyrich/Heritage path that leads to November. 2025 is no joke. The fundamentalist cult is ready to go. Ukraine made a brilliant preventiative strike......President Biden has the power to do the same. In both cases, the fate of a nation is at stake. Both could become right wing fascist hellscapes.
President Biden possibly could have Trump charged for treason, aiding and abetting the enemy, stealing and selling classified documents putting national security at risk......(add on charges needed)
He could order a military tribunal and trial. Charges starting at solitary confinement for life.
Please! Treason ONLY applies during wartime. Full Stop.
These guys have declared war on democracy and freedom of choice. Full Stop
Were they handing out free boxes of Depends along with Burger King gift certificates on Jan 6 ? Full Stop
Yes and please catch yourself if you feel negative like " what's the use?" This is battle and we are the majority. It's not over.
It would indeed be nice if the vote was overwhelming, and for sure let's get as many people registered, motivated, mobilized to the election site, etc, etc.
So sorry if I sound like a broken record, but the legal remedies Joyce discusses are *after* the election. Trump has said that he has judges in place at the county level to support his challenges. So then it goes to Appeal, where the Trump will presumably lose but then Appeal to full circuit, and so on. Trump only has to screw around for 30 days.
What can be done before the election? For example, in March the ACLU said they would sue Georgia over 189 if Kemp signed; they didn't, but in early July they sent a letter to Raffensperger saying that they *might* pursue litigation if the state does not resolve the alleged violations to federal law within 20 days of that letter; they didn't. Or at least not yet.
I'd like to see some legal victories in place ahead of the game.
p.s. Did you see that Georgia absentee ballots now need to be fully counted by 8:00pm on the day of the election... What happens if they are not??
So, all the military abroad that have to mail in by the election day are now screwed of their vote counting?
The machinations continue and we have to work now to protect the vote.
I looked further. There is a carve out for the military:
Notwithstanding any provision of this chapter to the contrary, until the United States Department of Defense notifies the Secretary of State that the Department of Defense has implemented a system of expedited absentee voting for those electors covered by this subparagraph, absentee ballots cast in a primary, election, or runoff by eligible absentee electors who reside outside the county or municipality in which the primary, election, or runoff is held and are members of the armed forces of the United States, members of the merchant marine of the United States, spouses or dependents of members of the armed forces or merchant marine residing with or accompanying such members, or overseas citizens that are postmarked by the date of such primary, election,
or runoff and are received within the three-day period following such primary, election,
or runoff, if proper in all other respects, shall be valid ballots and shall be counted and
included in the certified election results.
It also says that absentee ballots that arrive on the day of the election will also be counted. So I guess military and "almost late" absentee ballots do not need to be counted by 8:00pm on the 5th, but all the other ones do.
The text is a bit tricky. Some more commas would help:
A county election superintendent may, in his or her discretion, after 7:00 A.M. on the day of the primary, election, or runoff begin tabulating the absentee ballots; provided, however, that all absentee ballots that have been verified and accepted pursuant to subparagraph (a)(1)(B) of this Code section by the Monday prior to the day of the primary, election, or runoff shall be tabulated and the results reported by no later than 8:00 P.M. on the day of such primary, election, or runoff or within one hour of the closing of all polls in such county, whichever occurs later.
What I think this means is that all absentee ballots that have been verified and accepted by Monday Nov 4th must be counted by evening of Nov 5th. The text does not say what happens to later ballots.
More legalize that's undecipherable as to our overseas ballots. Insufferable is polite.
This site for absentee voting has a "should be" vs. "must" without allowance for mail delivery problems delivering late by 5 Nov:
Should mail absentee ballot in by:
1 October if aboard a ship
24 October if Abroad
31 October if Stateside
https://www.fvap.gov/military-voter/overview
I recall in 2020 that Trump's Postmaster tried to cut back on service delivery of absentee ballots ahead of the elections. He backed down under the glare of publicity.
I am expecting more of the same from insiders willing to corrupt or spoil the process to win. It is gop intransigence on steroids now with not wanting America to vote - Only gop MAGA.
Looks like George Absentee Ballot Web Page has conflicting data:
Says specifically post marked by 5 November. Then a warning:
*Ballot Return: Ballots must still be received by the 3rd day after the election.
Please mail your voting materials early enough to account for mail delivery times. Check the recommended mailing dates section in Chapter 1 for details.
https://www.fvap.gov/guide/chapter2/georgia
It doesn't matter if it's a landslide, he'll still claim it's "rigged."
They will drown in our votes. We are focused and tired of this evil bs.
North Carolina (15) or Ohio (18) provides the cushion against Wisconsin and Nevada (total 16) going rogue. One state, batshit crazy Florida (29) could turn the election into a route, possibly beyond any tomfoolery Republicans can play. If only!
Can we urge the media to chase each of the 50 Governors to publicly commit that they will ensure that certification laws will be promptly enforced (especially Georgia and Nevada)?
For instance, we count on Kemp in GA to follow the law but we certainly cannot in Florida with DeSantis. We can count on Cooper the Democratic Governor in NC but not Abbott in TX. We can certainly count on Dem Gov Katie Hobbs in AZ. So it looks like it will end up ok because if we end up having won certified victories in GA, AZ and NC then FL and TX wouldn't be really in play early in November!
Recently completed primary election in AZ was certified with NO official drama. One county had some loud citizens, but no county official put himself or herself in legal jeopardy by threatening to not certify.
Not sure that is the full picture Steve.
Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes launched investigations against two Cochise County supervisors who refused to certify the county’s 2022 midterm election results by the state-required deadline. The trial date for that case will be set in October.
Pinal County and Maricopa County both came close this time around and the bad actors only blinked because of threat of legal jeopardy. It was not just loud citizens. It was electoral officials.
https://www.votebeat.org/arizona/2024/08/13/pinal-county-election-certification-kevin-cavanaugh-aye-under-duress/
More worrying, county attorney Kent Volkmer also said of Pinal County that if there had been another vote in agreement with Kevin Cavanaugh then he would have considered suspending the certification.
Cavanaugh complained but DID vote to certify. No legal jeopardy. I read Fifield's story.
I'm reading a LOT of opinions from Texas organizers, that say the state very well COULD be in play, if they're able to get the registered Dem voters to the polls! Their projections include an estimated count of newly eligible young people, who are more engaged now that Harris/Walz are on the ticket - including those in rural areas of traditionally deep red counties. Since Texas has one of the worst voter turnout percentages in the nation, it would sure be a nice surprise to see a huge surge in Dem registration and actual participation!
That will be tough, The Dallas/Ft Worth suburbs are quite red. They like racism and no taxes there! 🤢
Florida is a real potential problem.
Florida is not a battleground state, and neither is Texas. Both went red in 2020, but Biden still won. We need to concentrate on the states that can actually count to win.
Is this referring to the media that on a daily basis pretends that LDFF is a normal candidate, that profits from perpetuating the fable of a close horse race, that both-sides everything by insisting that there are only two perspectives?
That media?
What would be in it for them to do anything different? They PROFIT from all this chaos. They are complicit in perpetuating it.
Bob T - YES can we and will we ??
To BobTimpson - great idea but ambiguity runs rampant in partisan politics. They might need to sign a binding document. And yes, would they?
Bob - Red state governors are already sending their Guard troops to Texas to participate in operation Lone Star. The Brookings Institution had a panel about this.
https://www.brookings.edu/events/domestic-deployment-of-the-national-guard/
Here’s the YouTube of the panel:
https://www.youtube.com/live/01Ai12DqJiI?si=LhT3L5RCQ1MfofUc
Quality exchange at 1:08:25- Lauren Voss, GW Law Prof and reservist: Gen Lengyel’s answer at 1:10:25 was excellent! Lafayette square company commander hypothetical; then Gen Lengyel’s conclusion: we need to rely on leaders who will do the right thing. Can we count on that?
Operation Lone Star disputes are making their way thru courts. The problem going forward is that these zealots do not care what the courts rule. The law of armed conflict that guides our military will be ignored.
What happens when Red State governors send their Army and Air Force Guard units to support Trump?
Professor Timothy Snyder gives us a preview:
https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-bloodbath-candidate?utm_campaign=post&triedRedirect=true
POTUS needs to activate all Red state governor Guard units from 1 November to 31 January to have them under his command!
Jason Orcamoon, THANK YOU for taking this topic to a new level, with a very practical and actionable step of activating Guard units, preemptively. Many of us will be nervous that it sounds like the invocation of the Insurrection Act, and we really don't want a Repub President to do that in the future. But the discussion needs to be laid out now, openly putting this choice on the table and sensitizing everyone to the danger.
Bob - I just finished watching the debate and I’m now watching Gov Walz on the MSNBC post debate analysis.
Kamala kicked the Bouffant Buffoons ass! But, as that fact sinks into the minds of the Christofascists including Orban and Putin the threat level increases. The Secret Service needs to be at battle stations. A Putin poisoning is not impossible but more likely some US RWNJ will try.
This next few months will be the most dangerous of our lives.
Please tell me that it is not a possible to appeal the individual state’s judgment to SCOTUS.
We must continue to unify and do whatever we can to make sure DEMOCRACY will be safe. Join calling or text banks, write postcards, talk to friends and family. Read about Project 2025, so you are knowledgeable to ask and answer questions. Voting is a privilege. A great source to see if you are registered is Vote.gov
Voting is private. You DO NOT have to tell anyone how you are voting. If we all participate, we can and will defeat this horrible traitor and convicted felon who is the biggest liar (don-old/ don-con) and his sidekick jd.
I want to have JOY. I want Harris-Walz!! Join me.
Joyce, thank you for tonight. You have given me hope.
To Monica P. -
I believe Heather Cox Richardson had something to say about this in her recent Politics Chat August 13th that it can be appealed to SCOTUS. That is the bigger threat or a delay in getting all the votes certified on time in all 50 states or the former President and his Maga loyalists try to create so much havoc that things would go instead directly to the joint session of Congress who would give each state 1 vote to determine who would win. We MUST not allow any of these alternative realities to surface. We need to turn out in huge numbers and avoid violence at all costs. That is exactly what 45 wants. Remember that🇺🇸🗽🗳️🕯️🥁🕊️💙
Tutone, I, too, appreciate you writing. Presuming state-level voter suppression either at the front end or the back end creates sufficient chaos leading to challenges reaching either the Supreme Court or landing in the House, wherein Repubs control 26 delegations and Dems 23, with each getting 1 vote, Trump conceivably could become President. While I believe MAGA, for some time, has been laying the groundwork to ensure MAGA holds power whether or not its candidates receive enough votes, I believe we can avoid this eventuality if we all do our part. In my view, this translates not only in ginning up Democratic votes but also in getting involved in our respective communities doing all we can to ensure election laws are followed. Democracy Docket founder Marc Elias, who has done more to preserve election integrity than any other figure, is calling upon all of us to help ensure free and fair elections.
Thank you so much for this information. I will continue being a broken record about voting blue up and down the ballot. Sorry not sorry.
I may be wrong but doesn’t the new Congress certify the election? I’m trying to find this out. The new Congress goes in session January 3. Does anyone have that answer?
You're correct that the next Congress is seated on January 3 (Friday in 2025), with newly elected members sworn in. The joint session of the new Congress then ratifies the Electoral College vote count on January 6 (Monday in 2025). Congress approved new certification rules in December, 2022. Among the changes, instead of a single member of Congress able to object to certifying the vote from a state, it is now required that a minimum of 1/5 of each chamber for an objection to be raised.
There are other excellent amendments as well including the requirement that the governor of each state sign off on the slate of electors before submitting them.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/congress-approves-new-election-certification-rules-in-response-to-jan-6
Of course it can be appealed to SCOTUS, it's how we got the moron W, Roberts and Citizens United. Imo Roberts is worse than Thomas and Alito, a stealth "justice" who's too smart to show the contempt he has for the rest of us.
Exactly!! I have always thought Roberts was a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing justice and his pro 2025 colors have, recently, become very clear. I think he and Thomas and Alito thought T's election was so inevitable, that there was no longer any reason to even try and hide their complicity with such a fascist agenda.
SCOTUS is accountable to NOBODY. The buck stops with them. If SCOTUS decides that some frivolous election fraud case is somehow "constitutional," no man can stop them.
It would then be Trump standing before the inauguration officiate, (Chief Justice John Roberts,) instead of the EC winner, Kamala Harris.
Well ... yes, SCOTUS may have the final decision in such a case. But ... they have no, actual enforcement mechanism - all they have is a decision, reflected on paper. If they make a ruling that is based on clearly erroneous voting results and, therefore, against the will of the people, then his could be the makings of a true Constitutional crisis.
Agreed. SCOTUS still depends on execution by the President, and history shows a couple times he has disregarded their rulings.
There is one and only one recourse to a corrupt SCOTUS decision (barring impeachment-which requires the political will and enough votes). That is restructuring the court. Impeachment is out until the votes are there. Mama Kamala will hopefully make inroads along that path. Vote like your freedom depends on it. We’re in this together and only together can we defeat the threats to our freedom.
It is rare, but is absolutely is possible.
When he loses, I would not be at all surprised if he leaves the country. I don't think he'd be welcome in Russia any more - Vlad's releasing of the prisoners to Joe was a pretty good sign that Putin is doubting he can win. But in the ...(ahem)..."interview" with elon the other day, didn't he say something about leaving for a non-extraditable country? I'll bet he's got a bunch of money already squirreled away where ever he's going.
Actually - as much as I would LOVE to see him thrown in prison - it would be almost as much fun to see the looks on the MAGAt faithful faces when they learn their dear leader is on the lam.
I agree with you about Putin’s deal with Biden. Putin must not think Trump will be elected, be too difficult to negotiate, or might believe Trump less relevant. That prisoner swap could not have happened without Putin’s blessing. It makes a big statement that the deal happened without Trump involved.
On the lam works for me. Good riddance! I hope all his cult members go with him.
No, I want the insipid orange turd in prison, until he breathes no more. 💥 only then will we be free of his menace.
If Double dealing Donnie waits until the day after the election it may be too late to try and leave. For federal offenses going on the lam is in itself a criminal act known as unlawful flight to avid prosecution. But at the rate Democrats are pursuing suits (legislators) for their crimes I wouldn't be surprised if the DOJ under Sister Mary Garland helped them pack their suitcases, carry them to the cab, buy their plane tickets and help them board the plane. Anything but actually take an offensive and aggressive action like arrest the "magats". What about Vance, what will he do? He's a Yale lawyer; based on the performance of the legal profession for the past 4 years, aiding and abetting criminal defendants, including lawyers, only one has been suspended. The performance of the national bar association is better at supplying alibis for their abject failure to hold the lawyers in their respective local bar associations, and the judges, to take aggressive and punitive action against them for their misconduct.
Maybe he should talk to Assange about options for countries and embassies.
In his Musk "conversation" he said he'd go to Venezuela, but UAE is the best bet.
Hopefully he and Elon will go to Mars.
I'd like to see the two of them become the first astronauts to land on the sun.
Poor Mars.
Venezuela, where the election was just stolen.
I find the idea of him "on the lamb" highly unlikely. I think you are trying to put yourself in his position and then taking the path you would take. He's done so much wrong in his lifetime it's impossible to believe it! He won't go. He has a mantra pounded into him by his father, Fred, and Roy Cohn: "Never, ever, ever, admit you are wrong. Just call them liars and move on." He's a master of it, indeed, it's his major methodology of dealing with life. He'll stay here while whining, complaining, filing lawsuits, threatening, and name-calling ... like he always does. He knows no other.
He did mention something about going to Venezuela.
Agree! I predicted he would flee and that would be as much “justice”as we can expect. Trump is 78 as his many cases will be tied up in appeals for years. By the time he’s be actually imprisoned he’ll be old and *acting* frail to get off easy. For now, large fines are painful. Let him go to Venezuelan in shame.
If Trump tries another coup attempt this time, let’s remember there’s not even any phony, made up, pretense of immunity for him to fall back on. He’s not the president. He’s just a citizen.
Double Dealing Donnie has been "just a citizen" since noon on January 20, 2020, yet he controls the US House and Senate, several state legislatures, and has managed to collude with the Senate leadership to buy the Supreme Court with all of the money he is supposed to owe the people of New York and Jean Carroll to the tune of $500 million dollars. Trump climbed up out of a New York sewer with Maggots attached to his back which is why he can be referred to in the language of a Veteran of Vietnam in the late sixties as a sewer rat and a guttersnipe.
“ Guttersnipe” … we really DO need to bring that back into usage again.
And I would add, the Democratic President and his staff will be ready for any nonsense this idiot stirs up this go round. If any of his cult members are dumb enough to try to do anything remotely like Jan 6, DC is gong to be crawling with law enforcement, secret service, probably national guard. Those dumb asses have seen their brothers and sisters in arms went to jail for their stupidity and a lot of them are still there for quite some time. If they are dumb enough to try messing around again, they’re going to jail and, their dear leader won’t be able to do a damned thing to help them out as if he would in the first place. And the best thing is that all of those idiots still in jail can’t vote! It makes me giddy every time I think about it!
I wanted to make a statement about Trump's VP choice in the person of JD Vance of Ohio in the form of a fact Check.
FACT CHECK
JD VANCE MILITARY SERVICE
I was a Navy Corpsman in Vietnam, 1969/1970, a combat deployment with marines. I am a veteran. Mr. Walz is a veteran that served in a support capacity. Mr. JD Vance served for 6 months in Iraq as a “military journalist”(… He was part of the Public Affairs section of the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing) and is quoted as saying “lucky to escape any real fighting” Shkolnikova, Svetlana (July 16, 2024). "Vance credits service in Marine Corps for teaching him 'how to live like an adult'". Stars and Stripes. Archived from the original on July 20, 2024. Retrieved July 20, 2024
There were hundreds of thousands of women who were not allowed to serve in combat theaters, but who served in similar capacity until some time later. The Pentagon ban of 1994 against women in combat operation was overruled by Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta in 2013, to be official in 2016 when women became eligible to serve in any combat mission for which they qualified. It was my privilege to serve with a Navy Nurse who was awarded the Bronze Star for heroism.
Women have been serving in combat since WWI, WWII, Vietnam from the 1950s – 1975, which also includes the 1960s. Moreover, women served in Operation Desert Storm, Aug. 1990, and Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003-2011.
Mr. JD Vance disrespected all the women who have served in both capacities as in support of and directly involved in combat. Not only has he and double-dealing Donnie denigrated all the men and women who wore the uniform, but also the families of the men and women who paid the ultimate sacrifice and struggled to cope with the care of their families while they were deployed. Vance should know better because he served with women in Iraq. If I had the resources, I would be all over Vance’s service in Iraq and relationships with women there like white on rice.
There are three undisputed facts about veterans,
1. There is no such thing as an ex-Veteran
2. A veteran’s oath of office has no expiration date
3. If you wear the uniform and have an honorable discharge you are a veteran
Mr. Vance is as dumb as his running mate if he thought no one would investigate his military service. His own comment that he was “lucky to escape any real fighting” is a complete repudiation of his attack on Mr. Walz.
FACT CHECK #2
JD Vance is a lawyer, Yale, 2013. Rules of Professional Conduct at 8.4(c).
Rule 8.4 - Misconduct
It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:
(a) violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another;(b) commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;(d) engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice;(e) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official or to achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or(f) knowingly assist a judge or judicial officer in conduct that is a violation of applicable rules of: judicial conduct or other law.
The above highlighted portion (c) is a relevant portion of Section 8.4(c) that was specifically identified by the New York State Supreme Court as one of the offenses in its disbarment proceeding regarding Rudy Guliani.
The Comment section below explains the connection between the behaviors of Giuliani and Vance.
“Comment:
(1) Lawyers are subject to discipline when they violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so or do so through the acts of another, as when they request or instruct an agent to do so on the lawyer's behalf.
Although a lawyer is personally answerable to the entire criminal law, a lawyer should be professionally answerable only for offenses that indicate lack of those characteristics relevant to law practice. Offenses involving violence, dishonesty, breach of trust, or serious interference with the administration of justice are in that category. A pattern of repeated offenses, even ones of minor significance when considered separately, can indicate indifference to legal obligation.”
The Court explains in detail the number of times Guiliani lied to various entities like the press, the so-called hearing at Gettysburg on November 25, 2020 when Giuliani induced Donald Trump to participate by telephone and members of the Republican State Senate Majority Committee to conspire to overturn Pennsylvania election which is a violation of Rules 8.4(c), & 4.1, according to the Court’s order on pages 11-16 incl.
All the specific relevant facts that formed the basis of Mr. Guliani’s suspension by the court can be found in its entirety Supreme Court of the State of New York, Appellate Division, First Judicial Department Case#2021-00506.
[Key words: -- Matter of Giuliani (2021-00506) pdf] It’s 31 pages.
If you read it, you will be able to determine the number of times Vance has lied under the same or similar circumstances. Every time Vance opens his mouth and spouts some venomous attack repeating Trumps assertions of fraudulent elections, or anything pertaining to the elections of 2020 and 2022, to raise money for what the timid mass media and timid Democratic party call election deniers. Vance opens the door for accusations of lawyer misconduct as explained under the rules cited above by the New York State Supreme Court.
Saving lives and influencing destiny one day at a time. (papricklyprickerpress@gmail.com)
Thank you for such a clear explanation of both the law and what it means to be in the military. I think for the latter, I intuitively knew what you stated, but was glad to see it in writing. I'd love to see Vance taken down the way Giuliani was.
Posted this before, but bears repeating. Orange 1, reading from his dog-eared 2020 playbook no doubt, has already said the election will be rigged and stolen. While the shenanigans -- illegal almost to a shenanigan --- being planned by the Dark Side could just as easily blow up in its face: hard to certify only your guy's votes on ballots and not the down ballot races that don't happen to go your way.
In any event, suggest you may want to read a new report from CREW ("Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington") a very effective nonpartisan nonprofit 501(c)(3) watchdog organization. "Election Certification Under Threat," lays out "a legal roadmap to protect the 2024 election including from 35 officials who have refused to certify results," according to the CREW site. The full report can be downloaded from the site via the link below.
https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/election-certification-under-threat/
A link you might have published, Joyce.
All these shenanigans with the Georgia State Elections Board—just where is Raffensperger (whom Trump just gratuitously insulted)? Whither Kemp (ditto)?
😉wink wink
I find myself wondering where their beliefs went. It seems like they are really on the trump bandwagon now, instead of the reasonable people they were in 2020.
Finally you are addressing the big future issue, Joyce. Thank you! BUT, of course, you are "the Law" and "of the Law", so your answer to the challenge coming, stays "within the Law". Based on my non-professional, but studied opinion of successful "usurpers" throughout history, they stay "outside the Law" when the takeover starts. Examples abound: Hitler burned down the Reichstag to declare marshal law, Maduro has his Military putschists by his side as he declares himself the winner, Putin burns down a good part of Moscow to take control, Caesar calls it the "will of the people" as he ends the Republic...etc. etc. etc. I think we should all be prepared for that, especially our current President and Executive who would then need to call out troops with sharp ammunition, not lawyers. I do fear...and I'd like to hear President Biden say it.
Small correction: it was part of St. Petersburg, not Moscow, that Putrid burned down.
Thanks Jude, my bad
If we really want to prevent mischief from happening with proper election certification there must be a proactive preemptive strategy to ensure that the election remains free and fair throughout the entire process. This means identifying and singling out those who would attempt to interfere, and literally make them an offer they can’t refuse. This is not meant to be hyperbole, I am serious, these people have already shown us who they are and what they will do. We must deploy all necessary measures to get in the way ahead of time to prevent it.
Including tricks to prevent people from registering to vote or wiping voters from the rolls.
This is where our free press will be critical. It has been often said that "Sunlight is the best disinfectant". A press that is aggressively engaged in scrutinizing all election related matters and getting all suspicious activity out in the open will not only deter malfeasance but aggressively reveal it. The power of the press to investigate, to question, to raise concerns, to expose (if I may use the expression) possible hanky-panky will put everyone on notice that our democracy will not tolerate the corruption of our cherished right to vote and to have our votes honestly counted.
Well, that's a nice thought; I wish it were true.
I was a radio producer for 8 years and can, from my experience advise with high confidence that benevolent version of our for-profit 'media' is as realistic as any episodes of Criminal Minds, sorry to say.
We’re totally screwed, then 🤬
Thank you. Will you please interview someone from the Brennan Center/Pitt Cyber or Rep. Chris Deluzio to talk more about this, since they deal more with it and cyber secuity issues?
thank you for this reassurance!
How frightening is all this? You no doubt know the qoute “Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything. Joseph Stalin
It isn't frightening to me, it just makes me angry and more determined.
Never forget Howard Beale's speech in network:
"I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.
All I know is that first, you've got to get mad. You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"
How many millions of voters will naively believe we're all safe after Kamala wins in November?
“It’s not over until he puts his hand on the Bible and takes the oath. It’s not over until then. It’s not over on Election Day, it’s over on Inauguration Day[.]"
Chris LaCivita - Trump’s co-campaign manager
Am I crazy or missing something or am I seeing a scary loophole here?
“The [Georgia State elections] board has adopted RULES in the last few weeks that WOULD LET LOCAL OFFICIALS STOP VOTE COUNTS and delay or refuse to certify results if they believe there are any ‘irregularities.’”
“…the law is unambiguous about the duty to certify election results AFTER A VOTE COUNT.”
“These [county] officials are directed to certify votes ONCE THEY ARE COUNTED….”
“Georgia’s courts…have consistently ruled that certification of votes is ‘ministerial’—something officials must do ONCE THE COUNTS ARE COMPLETE.” [My capitalization]
Good point, Jude. In sum, what's the point of all these safeguards if they only apply to the FINAL count.
If that count was stopped during a Trump lead, the final count would then point to Trump, am I correct?
Ask Gore how that worked out for him in 2000.
I was reading through these comments to see if anyone else noticed that. What's the plan when MAGA stalls the vote count?
Not crazy, but i'm betting that stopping the count is also illegal. How can we find out?
Thank you for explaining all these nuances about the vote count. It has always been my biggest fear about the election. I feel more hopeful now, especially since I really believe at this point that if we get enough Harris-Walz supporters to the polls, it won't even be close.