A little mea culpa in advance of tonight’s newsletter. My proofreader is out sick. And my backup proofreader is out sick. Get your Covid and Flu vaccines folks! It’s a jungle out there. My apologies in advance for any typos or inartful phrasing that have escaped my attention at the end of a surprisingly long, full week for the holiday season!
Love your whole exposé. I think you could submit it as a Thesis somewhere. Only some annotations missing.
Joyce (Ms Vance), where do you get the time and energy for all you're involved in? I am impressed by your work ethic.
Someone made the comment on Lawrence O'Donnell's programme on MSNBC (where I'm happy to listen to your analyses and comments) that the one good thing Trump has accomplished is to make people more aware and knowledgeable about the US Constitution and the legal processes.
Joyous New Year 2024. I wish you and your entourage good health and happiness. Humans and animals.
PS You did very well without proofreading. You don't want to tell them though. At least not while they're sick 🤤.
Definitely. I agree with you, Bill. Joyce must have a big board like a CSI team has. If she doesn’t, then that big board is in her head. Reading this post today, needed a big board to lay out all the “players.”
Hi Kathi, I needed a big board and a speadsheet to stay up with her fab issue after Jack Smith filed his motion to limine (Dec 27 Jack Smith lays out his strategy). Three cups of coffee and nodding off at 3:00 am, finally read her analysis and the motion, including the ECFs. Wow!! What brilliant minds. I am so honored to be on this Substack. I have to look up words and terms such as 'voir dire' (jury selection) granting certiorari (so I can tell who the attorneys are on the Substack because they call it 'cert' - but I call it 'jump or jumping or jumped the fence,' and 'limine' which Jack Smith asked for on December 27. I think the Big Board is in Joyce's head. It is terribly diffiult to simplify this stuff for us.
If you have been in any profession for a long time it is second nature as it is for Joyce. I spent my college years studying American government and my grad years studying the Constitution. All as a political scientist. Then chose a totally different path. In grad school I used Lawrence Tribe’s text books! I realized during these past few years how much I still remember. Or have never forgotten. But I have also realized how much Americans do not know about our founding documents and how our government works or is supposed to work. That’s the fault of a weakened educational system and a poorly regulated home school system. This community is a breath of fresh air. People want to learn here. And Professor Vance is ready and willing educate us!
Hi Kathi, Indeed, a Substack with folks who actually support one another:)) I am also so grateful when one of the attorneys pipes up to help out with my many many legal questions and faux pas. And they are always kind and gentle.
We have some common ground: I also had lots of Lawrence Tribe in poli-sci, as well as Schattschneider and Iannacone, but for my PhD, I chose to work in policy (democracy in education) and school reform.
I am so glad to know you have a grounding in the constitution. This substack is begging for people to write about the encroachment by the Christian nationalist evangelicals who are laying claim to Christianity as the foundation of the constitution. In fact, the founders were very careful to leave religion out. There has never been a PhD dissertation on the founders, their backgrounds and their religion. I would love to see that written - and then a book. For example, Thomas Jefferson has stated that most founders were deists; some were atheist, and if one had a religion, it was Unitarian (from England, rejecting the Trinity). So my question for the Christian nationalists would be why they would think the founders included Christianity when they were rejecting the king of England, who had his own own church? I know we’ve chatted before. Nice to meet you again.💙 I’ve known some attorneys who’ve been in business as long as Joyce, and what she does, does not come as second nature to them. She is intellectually gifted with huge logical ability and able to analyze and describe complex ideas and themes to distill them so those of us with zero legal background can feel that we are participants in this battle. Her analysis of complex legal problems is indeed rare. She is gifted in logic AND analytical (and kindness)💙
You always bring up great questions and thought provoking issues, Valere. I think Barack Obama recognized @joyce Vance legal mind and tenacity when it came to work ethic. She was his first female appointment to US Attorney.
Kathi, Yes. When this whole shooting match is over, perhaps you can get back into your constitutional work with a book on backgrounds (including religion and business and personal) of the founders. It is so needed. Barack also had a kind of closeout interview with a few journalist the last day he was in the White House, just before the inauguration. He laid out word for word event for event on how Trump would behave if he lost an election. I’ll try to dig that out and post the link here for you. it’s astonishing that he made this prediction in January 2017. He nailed Trump up and down. Lots of people like to say now (after the fact, armchair, journalists) that “oh we all knew this all the time” and knew Trump would act like this but that is just not true. If that were true, some of the best minds in academe and business would not have resigned their jobs to join Trump’s cabinet. Some of the best military career folks would never have accepted assignments with him. Have you seen the movie ‘Unfit’?
It’s a fabulous 2020 movie with interviews from former cabinet members and current clinical psychologists and psychiatrists describing who Trump really is. Back in Goldwater’s campaigning days people slandered him by saying he was mentally ill. And the ‘Goldwater rule’ became part of mental health diagnosis: one has to have the patient in the office and diagnosed by direct observation before a diagnosis can be made. However, these clinical and teaching professionals interviewed in ‘Unfit’ are saying that because Trump has such a vast amount of film on record that they can get a much better read on his mental health, than if he were sitting in front of them (lying). They have deemed him to be a malignant narcissist. It fits. Just thought you might want to take a peek at that movie if you haven’t seen it. It is free on YouTube: but you have to put up with a few commercials.
I don't think the christian nationalists give one hoot about he founders. They've been radicalized for years not to accept it or not care about it. I'm sorry. The same applies to separation of church and state. Evangelicals don't care so long as they, in the minority, get what they want and that's not us. I don't know what drives them other than the fire and fury of umpf and his handlers.
The founders also created an underground maze in Philly and elsewhere so they could allow their slaves to continue being slaves with few people knowing.
If you don't know of the org, Faithful America, you may be interested. "Faithful America is the largest online community of Christians putting faith into action for social justice. Our members -- Catholic, Protestant, and more -- are sick of sitting by quietly while Jesus' message of good news is hijacked by the religious right to serve a hateful political agenda. We're organizing the faithful to challenge Christian nationalism and white supremacy and to renew the church's prophetic role in building a more free and just society." They are doing important work imo and, of course, are receiving many, many threats as a result.. https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/about-us/
Valere, you might be interested in the writings of the late Forrest Church... "So Help Me God: The Founding Fathers and the First Great Battle Over Church and State." Also, "The Separation of Church and State: Writings on a Fundamental Freedom by America's Founders." Forrest was prolific. He was senior minister of All Souls Unitarian Church NYC (I'm a member, he was much loved). His father was Frank Church, US Senator-Idaho [D].
I agree that Americans are lacking in awareness of our system of government. During times like this I often ask myself how I would address this issue. Forums like this are great, but I know that so many Americans are more interested in their daily life and not willing or able to stay current in their knowledge. As a young man I used to believe the best way to keep abreast of current affairs - and our political system - was through the media, our news broadcasters, as an impartial method to inform and, yes, educate too. But that is no longer the case, for me anyway, as I find I have more questions at the end of a news article than at the beginning. It's frustrating. I have no wish to become a Constitutional scholar, but I certainly appreciate someone I trust giving me honest, factual information - and maybe a reference to where to get more detailed information on the subject in question.
You are an immense help even to us lawyers. This is a huge amount of detailed stuff that you sift through for us. I know that you do it because it's important, and that's one more reason that we have to thank you.
Seems there may be more members of the House and Senate who are getting the butterfly wing treatment. They need to be asked the hard questions too. Ted Cruz and Mike Lee for starters.
Speaker Moses?! That might explain his inexplicable effort to blurr faces on security footage of people in the Capitol J6, I wondered how he could tell who was needing protection from the DOJ...oh, right...all of them! Vote 💙
Always enlightening. As a constituent of Ron Johnson who read Jack Smith’s J6 indictment I wonder your thoughts of whose testimony resulted in Sen Johnson’s name appearing in para 106. Also wondering your thoughts if Jack Smith may be moving toward more indictments for other players, including members of Congress? Thank you.
As a retired attorney, Hermina, my opinion is that evidence of being an insurrectionist is just that: evidence, not proof. But that determination is almost moot when dealing with a Supreme Court whose members, mindful of the accusations of conservative bias that abound these days, will want to finesse this via a decision that doesn't require the majority to say, one way or the other, that Trump did or did not commit insurrection. I don't personally care about the outcome of the current Colorado and Maine cases, since it looks like Trump is in line for the GOP nomination anyway. What I do hope the SC will do is make a determination, perhaps by at least 8-1 or 7-2 if not unanimously, that no person is above the law, even presidents, meaning that Trump doesn't have the immunity he seeks. THEN the various cases can move forward with a sense that Trump's numerous days in court will not turn out well for him.
I agree with you, David, that Scotus is probably going to lean into their conservative agenda and devise a way to wriggle out of declaring the obvious - (1) That trump took an oath as President to protect the Constitution, (2) That he engaged in an insurrection, and (3) That the office of the President is indeed listed among the positions that come under the jurisdiction of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. I can't help but believe that if this involved any other presidential candidate, we could expect the court system to take this Amendment seriously and that candidate would be disqualified, full stop. Unfortunately, we're seeing some judges who obviously see trump as above the law, are frightened (understandably) of trump and his followers, or for whatever other reasons, will refuse to acknowledge the evidence. If trump truly isn't above the law then we should see consistency in the Scotus rulings: (1) he shouldn't be granted immunity, and (2) his actions leading up to and on January 6th should be deemed to fall squarely within the Disqualification Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3 of the same Constitution he swore to preserve, protect and defend - regardless of whether he's a former President, GOP frontrunner, or the wonderful, illustrious donald trump.
Springing to mind, in reading so many thoughtful reflections on this wickedly tangled web, are Trump’s patently false claims, from the Mueller investigation forward, of a baseless, years’ long "witch hunt."
Why, after three long years plus, are we all still scrambling to ferret out the facts of such duplicity?
Let one count the ways:
(a) Refusals to comply with Jan. 6 Committee subpoenas on the part of former "senior presidential advisor" Steve Bannon and pathetically self-aggrandizing Roger Stone;
(b) assertions of Fifth Amendment privileges against self incrimination by a litany of Trump enablers (let’s note ever so briefly and in particular Giuliani, Eastman, Chesebro, Sidney Powell, Jeffrey Clark); and
(c) my personal favorite, the nearly 150 elected Congressional representatives (among them, Ron Johnson, Scott Perry, Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz and MTG) who steadfastly cling to a (civilly adjudicated) rapist and (democracy-) murdering immigrant(-by-familial heritage - Drumf, really?).
No juvenile, unhinged anger on my part, just the short list of the many reasons it is so hard for us as a republic devoted to the rule of law to out a simple truth: a candidate like Trump is fit for neither ballot or office. He is the very epitome of "Un-American".
Thanks all for your patience and for such a thoughtful analysis of why the wheels of justice turn so slowly in a matter of such existential importance.
I too hope for charges for the 150 or so Republican pals drumpf expected to clear his way to complete destruction of our democracy.
That so many Americans are so poorly educated and frankly stupid as to support this ugly fraud of a man I lay squarely on Reagan. And HIS Republican enablers.
“Unfortunately, we're seeing some judges who obviously see trump as above the law, are frightened (understandably) of trump and his followers, or for whatever other reasons, will refuse to acknowledge the evidence.”
As for being “frightened” or “for whatever other reasons”….
Dare I say they are not frightened. Why? Because they are complicit. They are fully vested in and are part of the scheme to make the USA a “Christian Democracy”. They have nothing to fear. Those “some judges who obviously see trump as above the law” also see themselves “as above the law”.
What I am hoping is that fear will not play a part in it, because (I hope that) the current members of the US Supreme Court will decide to protect the Republican Party by agreeing that djt is disqualified from holding office.
Thank you soooo much David. I know you wrote to Hermina, but I think I had it backwards: I was thinking Colorado being heard by the SCOTUS would be powerful to keep Trump off the ballots of other states. Because while, yes, we want him convicted in a court or courts of law, most important is that he never gets near the White House again. Do you have an opinion on that?
The 14th Amendment, Article 3 doesn't say that a finding of guilt by a court is required to know that an insurrection has been commmitted against the US constitution. 45 himself has stated in court that he didn't take an oath to support the constitution - as though that (another of his lies) will excuse his insurrection against our governing document.
What I am hoping is that the current members of the U.S. Supreme Court will decide to protect the Republican Party (and everyone else) by agreeing that DJT is disqualified from holding office.
The ancient saying- “A fish rots from the head down” captures the insidious corrupting process that followed Trump’s rise and abuse of power. Harvard Law grad Chesebro is just one of untold people whose latent moral compass was criminal, but probably would never have found himself a felon without the inticing moral rot that Trump flooded all levels of society with. Chesebro, Barr, Cohen, Flynn, Meadows etc etc all jumped at the chance to abandon their facades of moral and ethical principles once given the opportunity to swim in Trump’s ever waiting depraved cesspool of moral turpitude.
Good point, Dr. Cornwall. What was in it for Barr, Cohen, Flynn, Meadows, Cheseboro, Giuliani, et al? What could be the incentive to do something so risky as to crash and burn one's reputation and professional career?
None of them ever would admit it publicly or probably to themselves, but I believe that after 8 years of Obama, they all saw his Secretary of State Clinton and his VP Biden as surrogates for the continuance of a non-white take over of the country by people of color. Trump was the very unlikely but perfect demagogue for fueling the masses against that happening, so Chesebro and the others like Flynn and Barr were eager to sign on to help Trump.
I think it’s too simplistic to say they all were just drawn to be close to the seat of power.
The gnawing fear of so many in the Maga movement- both for elites like Chesebro and for the white working class foot soldiers, is simply seen in the make America great again credo-
a credo of fear of whites being replaced and losing economic and political power.
That’s the driving force behind the epic showdown this next election is about.
It boils down to a coin toss between democracy and a white, confederacy style neo-fascism.
It reminds me of the movie, Trading Places. Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche own a Commodities business. They have done something that is about to get them in hot grease with their clients, so they come up with a plan to hire a fall guy, Eddie Murphy. As a salute to racism, they select a homeless (PC term is now "unhoused") black man to take over the company and ultimately get crucified. In the end, he was smarter than they had anticipated, and their plan backfired. Trump was the unlikely demagogue for the job, which was likely part of his appeal. He was one of the wealthiest men in the world, or at least a billionaire, who comes along and offers to drain the swamp. That seemed like a worthwhile project to all the Obama haters, so he was hired. I'm not sure what swamp he drained, but he failed abysmally to clean the shallow end of the pond rid it of all the bottom feeders. In fact he bought a chain of shallow ponds and started raising his own bottom feeders.
I think you have put your finger on the essence of the biggest problem, and it dovetails exquisitely with the sense of grievance that so many people feel for a variety of reasons. Victimhood.
💯THIS: “The gnawing fear of so many in the Maga movement...a credo of fear of whites being replaced and losing economic and political power.
That’s the driving force behind the epic showdown this next election is about.”
I couldn’t agree more.
One way or another, most of these issues come down to a need for (and fear of losing) economic and political power - i.e. safety, security and personal agency - and are triggered at a primal level that is often unconscious.
We can see this throughout history and in every major conflict around the globe, or at our own kitchen table.
Thank you Wendy- yes the primal fear of loss of power is often unconscious and is the emotional fuel for both demagogues and even kitchen table tyrants to manipulate, stoke and exploit for their own ends.
Are you suggesting Trump had dirt on Barr (et al) and fear of being exposed is the power he has over them? Fascinating theory! Wonder if we'll ever know?
Since revenge seems to be Trumps's driving force, he wouldn't think twice about retaliating against anyone who cooperates with prosecutors. The next chapters in this sordid tale get curiouser and curiouser.
(Wrote you a response 12 hrs ago that seemed to quickly disappear- been scratching my head about that... but perhaps it was me!)
But I agree entirely with Liz Cheney’s observations that large number of Republican congressman appear to be living in actual fear - of something more compelling that ‘merely’ getting primaried.
1) We do know that both tfg and his MAGAT acolytes DO threaten physical harm, perhaps to family members as well as their marks directly.
2) We know they have planned kidnappings and conducted armed assaults.
But I also suspect tfg operated honeypot traps (perhaps with bird-of-a-feather Stormy Daniels, possibly with Epstein and Max.... I have NO data).
For years he has operated high end hotels catering to the appetites and lifestyles of the rich and powerful. & sometimes operating at a ‘loss’.
Every such high end hotel has significant surveillance staff and capacity.
It would ASTOUND me if it never occurred to Trump or his family that there was easy money in video-taping people who presumed they had privacy for any of a variety of salacious or compromised liaisons.
His team sure nibbled quickly on the ‘dirt on Hillary’ worm dangled by the Russians, so one knows some of the gutters where their minds run.
People who threaten and effect physical harm are not likely to have moral compunctions about using videotape blackmail. It is a lot less expensive than financial inducements. It is a lot more durable.
I have NO data, just connecting the dots with the characters. Putin and others tfg admires would not hesitate to be doing this.
When an arrow flying through the air makes a left turn, there’s an unseen force in the vicinity of that turn.
The republicans act like they are owned; there is an unseen force in effect.
tRumps's actions in his business dealings have been likened to those of the mafia. Hired undocumented immigrants to do scut work constructing his buildings, then refused to pay them knowing they're not going to complain to authorities. (Mary Trump's book.)
Can only imagine what dirt he collected from 'friends' he introduced to Epstein.
Agree, Mark, the 'loyalty' he's accrued absolutely seems fear-based. Those in Congress who don't speak up probably probably suspect he 'has something' on them.
"Be a shame if voters in your district ever found out..."
Exactly. They don’t seem to care about any of his convictions thus far. He’s convinced them that everything has been a lie and a witch hunt. I actually heard him say on a YouTube: “I am the chosen one.” So now he’s not just a victim, but a martyr. Who will never take an ounce of accountability. I’m also guessing MAGA have not seen ‘Unfit’ in which clinical psychologist and psychiatrist, label him a malignant narcissist.
(Wrote you a response 12 hrs ago that seemed to quickly disappear- been scratching my head about that... but perhaps it was me!)
But I agree entirely with Liz Cheney’s observations that large number of Republican congressman appear to be living in actual fear - of something more compelling that ‘merely’ getting primaried.
1) We do know that both tfg and his MAGAT acolytes DO threaten physical harm, perhaps to family members as well as their marks directly.
2) We know they have planned kidnappings and conducted armed assaults.
But I also suspect tfg operated honeypot traps (perhaps with bird-of-a-feather Stormy Daniels, possibly with Epstein and Max.... I have NO data).
For years he has operated high end hotels catering to the appetites and lifestyles of the rich and powerful. & sometimes operating at a ‘loss’.
Every such high end hotel has significant surveillance staff and capacity.
It would ASTOUND me if it never occurred to Trump or his family that there was easy money in video-taping people who presumed they had privacy for any of a variety of salacious or compromised liaisons.
His team sure nibbled quickly on the ‘dirt on Hillary’ worm dangled by the Russians, so one knows some of the gutters where their minds run.
People who threaten and effect physical harm are not likely to have moral compunctions about using videotape blackmail. It is a lot less expensive than financial inducements. It is a lot more durable.
I have NO data, just connecting the dots with the characters. Putin and others tfg admires would not hesitate to be doing this.
When an arrow flying through the air makes a left turn, there’s an unseen force in the vicinity of that turn.
The republicans act like they are owned; there is an unseen force in effect.
Thank you Mark, I do think Jack Smith, Fani Willis, Letitia James, all treat Trump as they would a mob boss. Regarding your first point, Mitt Romney has had to pay $5,000 per day since January 6. That is almost $2 million per year. And he publicly has stated he knows those kinds of threats are made to others in the Republican party, and they don’t have the resources to pay for protection that would allow them to speak out about Trump or remain in office. Romney said he was leaving public service because of threats made. And he wrote a book detailing the level of corruption. Republican Congress members who have a core, such as Adam Kinzinger, have resigned and they have publicly stated they have resigned - or plan not to run - because of corruption - and threats to their families. Adam Kinzinger has posted graphic threats against himself and his family period Liz Cheney has received death threats. We saw the behavior on January 6 and it’s pure mob and enticed by Trump. There’s no other word for it. I think the most chilling words I’ve heard about January 6 has been the testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson that Trump said ‘ he could’ve handled things better at the Capitol’ and that she was threatened following her January 6 testimony. The Republican party is now experiencing immense fear among their leadership. Many of the Republicans have no core in the first place, and they were put into their positions in the primaries because they were corruptible (promises made for financial gain once elected). Once they got elected, they were corrupted, and indeed ‘someone’ may be holding something over them. Blackmail is against the law. Why aren’t they going to DOJ with it? I’ve sometimes wondered how they have such change of heart once they make their trips to Mara Largo. Some have been outspoken about Trump causing the damage of January 6, but very few. suddenly. Curiously after any of them visit Trump at Mara Largo they change their tune very quickly to support him again. I’m not so sure their visits to Mara Largo are entirely of their own volition. But the most noticeable change after their visits, is they become quite quiet in their criticisms of Trump. And they return to being supporters. But agree: there seems to be some fear working on them. (Only speculation, but Kevin McCarthy‘s decision not to run again, followed his phone call with Trump. And he’s not out of the crosshairs but if he’s not in a public position, a scandal isn’t much news. Maybe that was part of what he weighed when he decided to retire). I think some of the Republican voters are waking up to the fact that Trump is unhinged. T
But not enough to turn the tide, and we will have to educate the fence sitters.
Spot-on, concur totally 💯🎯.. and nicely articulated. The reality is that "The Donald" openly and brazenly enabled and encouraged the underbelly of society... no morals or character necessary... just "win" at all costs... the personally selfish ends (monetary, power, etc) justify the means.
Thank you for the update and you're right, it's complicated. I think we're also seeing the being of all the rats turning on one another. Usually, when that happens, we get more and more information about how awful it all was. I agree with you that we need all the details and all the names to get beyond this.
And you can add, ‘and chewing off each others tails too’. On another note, I’m really wondering about these high priced and(once)well regarded law schools who seem to have churned out their share of bonkers attorneys who cloned onto the trumptator.
Back around the time I was in grad school at Harvard (‘85-‘88), was appalled to learn they had just dropped (or renamed?) a “Strategic Misrepresentation” course... but some of the instructors were good people, not merely smart or OW privileged.
“Like rats running from a burning barn,” I think, is the phrase used by a Vermont reporter during the Civil War to describe a Union attack on a band of confederates who had been destroying vital Union infrastructure (telegraph lines and railroad tracks) among the Potomac River.
I hope corrupt traitors like Chesebro aren’t let off the hook . . . I want to see them ALL HANG, and I want to see tRump BROKEN and HANGING. It’s what traitors deserve. It’s high time the American People saw justice done. Between a Supremely Corrupt SCOTUS, Stocastic terrorism from Repugs and Neo Nazi fascists pulling puppet strings--WE DESERVE to see some iota of JUSTICE.
Hi Doc, I am glad you are warmed up. It is important not just to 'know' but to have the skill and will to bark them down when they spew blatherskite. More of us need to say: "No! that is not true!" Grrrr. Woof.
I wanted to revisit your comment to send you this link. I hope it works - another substack member here sent it to me. Let me know should you have trouble opening the link. I read it last night and I was stunned at the way Germany's legal caved:
It opens for me when it use the beginning chrome- (with the dash included) If it does not open with the link it is at St. Mary's University, Journal on Legal Malpractice and Ethics, Vol 10 Number 2
"Complicity in the Perversion of Justice: The Role of Lawyers in Complicity in the Perversion of Justice: The Role of Lawyers in Eroding the Rule of Law in the Third Reich Eroding the Rule of Law in the Third Reich Cynthia Fountaine Southern Illinois University, cfountaine@siu.edu" published July, 2020"
With so many attorneys involved, I am wondering why there is a dearth of information from the American Bar Association on whether they are conducting ethics investigations. I have only heard about John Eastman in CA (he had a court case by the CA bar association, I believe he lost his teaching position at a CA university, and is now waiting for the judge to make her final decision. And Jenna Ellis, Colorado has received a complaint. But the rest are skating.
And this movie: 'Unfit.' It is fab. Clinical psychologists and teaching/practicing psychiatrists label Trump a malignant narcissist. They no longer need to abide by the Goldwater Rule (a patient must be examined by a medical professional in person, over time). These extremely qualified doctors claim that patients (especially narcissist) will lie to their faces - but they can observe Trump in myriad settings with such a cache of videos posted on-line. To a T - they all said he was a malignant narcisissist - the worst kind, as they have no conscience about revenge/punishment and are 'agressive, manipulative and abusive without remorse.' 'Unfit' is free on YouTube (but has some commercials that one can click off); about 1-1/2 hours; full of interviews from staff (credible folks who left when they experienced his narcissistic personality disorder first hand). And this explains why his former military chiefs have said he is unfit to be president. Just recommending in the case you have a spare bit of time to read the article on Nazi Germany legal, and watch 'Unfit' because it's terrific information to have in your arsenal. It gives one a sense of having some control: lots of information to work with and rebut blatherskite - if that crops up and you care to confront. Hand them a note with 'Unfit' printed on it and a copy of the Nazi legal - that ought to chill anyone.
You did good. They did bad! Unbelievable....please everybody read this. Spread the word and vote blue. Thank you counselor. You truly make a difference.
I am curious as to why the senators and congressmen that were deeply involved in all of January 6th haven’t been questioned let alone indicted. Ron Johnson, Lindsay Graham and others are involved in J6 up to their eyeballs.....they need to be investigated and, if complicit, removed from office due to the 14th Amendment.
Maybe a recall effort in Wisconsin for Johnson would be appropriate. The Dems now have a majority on the State Supreme Court if anyone wanted to block such an effort legally. I bet it would succeed though...Wis is 50-50 D/R, and I'm not sure all though R's like what Johnson is accused of doing. Would certainly help the Senatorial count for next year.
It's really too bad the DSCC didn't invest early and seriously in the campaign of the Mandela Barnes, Wisconsin's young, Black, popular former Lt Gov, when he ran for the US Senate against Johnson in 2020. He lost by 1%.
That should have happened during the House hearing.... but, it is hard to go after colleagues who may also know some icky things about those asking questions.
Hi Joyce, I edited others’ papers and journal submissions at an R1, so in a sense I can probably proofread ‘well enough.’ I did a quick scan as I read yours for errors and actually, I didn’t spot a single one — so as ever, your work is perfect and even if there IS an error, your work is perfect.
Regarding Kenneth Cheeseboro, I believe when he first came into the White House was when he made his first false elector plan for Wisconsin. The head of the Wisconsin Republican party referred him to speak with Rudy Giuliani and he was invited to join the White House in November 2020.
So far as him saying, he wasn’t “involved” on January 6. Chesebro is just a common liar, liar pants on fire. He was getting signatures from New Mexico fake electors the evening of January 5, so they could be couriered to the Capitol.
So he didn’t see it coming that he was going to be thrown under the bus? Who else would ‘running down his face black hair dye’ throw under the bus? If not Kenneth?
Valere, Joyce's column is, as you note, extraordinary. Your comments are also on point. I can only imagine Joyce writing AND attempting to proof at the end of a long day. I am not a good proofreader of my own material. So, I am heartened to see the use of roll for role.
If anyone especially John Eastman who already took credit for being the mastermind behind, the fake elector scheme, can get an ounce of room, or a day out of jail by blaming Kenneth Chesebro, they will. They will label him as the planner and the architect, and as such, he is eligible for jail.
Hi Mim, I spotted as well….ie, “…Trump campaign lawyers, who[se] emails…”
“…that Morgan though[t] John Eastman…”
and a couple of other mis-spells, but I said it was perfect because it was, despite having a couple of very minor grammar, spelling issues:)))
Joyce's legal content is so absolutely superlative, I didn’t want her to even think about minor errors:)
It looks like she’s got some great volunteers from the Substack for proofing though. And because of their locations she should just about have 24/7 coverage. I wouldn’t dare try to proofread her work other than minor grammar because of the content. I worked in academe and policy. Legal is a whole different ballgame 💙💙
I believe Joyce just needed a couple of commas in the sentence that included "Trump campaign lawyers, who, emails reveal, were in the thick of the fake electors committee..." She did not write "whose emails were in the thick of..."
You're right about "Morgan though(t)...." I'd seen that too but forgot to mention it.
I think we all have learned to expect some misspellings from even the best writers, even those whose posts are proofread, because proofreaders do miss some things too. Considering the writers do this every day (or several times a week), their attention to grammatical detail is generally excellent and praiseworthy. What irks me are the people who post, say, on Facebook and never proofread their posts before (or even after) hitting Send.
Mike Johnson conspired. I hope Jack Smith and his team subpoena Johnson's (and his wife's) cellphone records - but Smith and Company are so far ahead in the game, I'm sure they know plenty.
I know you are concerned about your proofreaders. Hope they both get well soon. In the meantime, you did a fine job getting all of your points across. I keep hearing lots of whining from Cheseboro and it’s annoying. This Morgan guy might be affable but he’s guilty as hell too. They all are, otherwise, why would they be pleading their innocence? Let them rat on each other, eat their own, so-to-speak.
Hi Marlene, You may be aware, but Chesebro is co-conspirator #5 in Jack Smith's indictment. We heard early on from Joyce (back in August) that DOJ prosecutors do not bring charges unless they are 95% certain of conviction. And in a case with this much importance hanging on it, I would think Jack Smith has plenty of evidence on Kenneth Chesebro. Jack Smith is saving him for later to indict. And you have to have 'done plenty' to end up as unnamed co-conspirator #5. Of course we are supposed to say: "Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." I would be plenty worried if I were Ken Chesebro: I have always thought he was the worst traitor of all. He came up with the fake elector scheme (John Eastman took credit, but Ken Chesebro designed it and took it to the Wisconsin Republicans).
You’re so correct on all counts. Unless Cheseboro spills his entire guts, Smith will indeed indict him. He was THE architect. He’s not the worst traitor, however, but he is one of quite a few.
It appears Morgan has that special talent of being able to lie as easily as breathing, a prized trait in the 'all the best people' administration. He was not under Oath when he talked to the J6 Committee but was reminded to not lie to Congress. I wonder if the DOJ interviewed and received the same story, because there is definitely a different story being told in the email.
From what I can surmise, Chesebro has been a tad disingenuous in dealing with the "facts" of his involvement. I don't blame him cuz he is in deep kimchi, as my former Korean wife used to say when a person was in hOT WATER. I doubt it will help him in the end, and I believe his attitude goes back to Joyce telling us long ago that Chesebro thinks he is the smartest guy in the room, any room. My sincere hope is that the others from Congress will be indicted for their parts in this scheme to keep trump illegally in the WH, especially Ron Johnson, Andy Biggs, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Louie Gohmert, Paul Gosar, and MTG. That would make 2024 a greater new year, eh? carry on
Thank you, Ms. Vance. You are an immense help to us non-lawyers.
Love your whole exposé. I think you could submit it as a Thesis somewhere. Only some annotations missing.
Joyce (Ms Vance), where do you get the time and energy for all you're involved in? I am impressed by your work ethic.
Someone made the comment on Lawrence O'Donnell's programme on MSNBC (where I'm happy to listen to your analyses and comments) that the one good thing Trump has accomplished is to make people more aware and knowledgeable about the US Constitution and the legal processes.
Joyous New Year 2024. I wish you and your entourage good health and happiness. Humans and animals.
PS You did very well without proofreading. You don't want to tell them though. At least not while they're sick 🤤.
Hermina! Love your last two sentences:)💙🙇♀️
😉
Definitely. I agree with you, Bill. Joyce must have a big board like a CSI team has. If she doesn’t, then that big board is in her head. Reading this post today, needed a big board to lay out all the “players.”
Hi Kathi, I needed a big board and a speadsheet to stay up with her fab issue after Jack Smith filed his motion to limine (Dec 27 Jack Smith lays out his strategy). Three cups of coffee and nodding off at 3:00 am, finally read her analysis and the motion, including the ECFs. Wow!! What brilliant minds. I am so honored to be on this Substack. I have to look up words and terms such as 'voir dire' (jury selection) granting certiorari (so I can tell who the attorneys are on the Substack because they call it 'cert' - but I call it 'jump or jumping or jumped the fence,' and 'limine' which Jack Smith asked for on December 27. I think the Big Board is in Joyce's head. It is terribly diffiult to simplify this stuff for us.
If you have been in any profession for a long time it is second nature as it is for Joyce. I spent my college years studying American government and my grad years studying the Constitution. All as a political scientist. Then chose a totally different path. In grad school I used Lawrence Tribe’s text books! I realized during these past few years how much I still remember. Or have never forgotten. But I have also realized how much Americans do not know about our founding documents and how our government works or is supposed to work. That’s the fault of a weakened educational system and a poorly regulated home school system. This community is a breath of fresh air. People want to learn here. And Professor Vance is ready and willing educate us!
Hi Kathi, Indeed, a Substack with folks who actually support one another:)) I am also so grateful when one of the attorneys pipes up to help out with my many many legal questions and faux pas. And they are always kind and gentle.
We have some common ground: I also had lots of Lawrence Tribe in poli-sci, as well as Schattschneider and Iannacone, but for my PhD, I chose to work in policy (democracy in education) and school reform.
I am so glad to know you have a grounding in the constitution. This substack is begging for people to write about the encroachment by the Christian nationalist evangelicals who are laying claim to Christianity as the foundation of the constitution. In fact, the founders were very careful to leave religion out. There has never been a PhD dissertation on the founders, their backgrounds and their religion. I would love to see that written - and then a book. For example, Thomas Jefferson has stated that most founders were deists; some were atheist, and if one had a religion, it was Unitarian (from England, rejecting the Trinity). So my question for the Christian nationalists would be why they would think the founders included Christianity when they were rejecting the king of England, who had his own own church? I know we’ve chatted before. Nice to meet you again.💙 I’ve known some attorneys who’ve been in business as long as Joyce, and what she does, does not come as second nature to them. She is intellectually gifted with huge logical ability and able to analyze and describe complex ideas and themes to distill them so those of us with zero legal background can feel that we are participants in this battle. Her analysis of complex legal problems is indeed rare. She is gifted in logic AND analytical (and kindness)💙
You always bring up great questions and thought provoking issues, Valere. I think Barack Obama recognized @joyce Vance legal mind and tenacity when it came to work ethic. She was his first female appointment to US Attorney.
Kathi, Yes. When this whole shooting match is over, perhaps you can get back into your constitutional work with a book on backgrounds (including religion and business and personal) of the founders. It is so needed. Barack also had a kind of closeout interview with a few journalist the last day he was in the White House, just before the inauguration. He laid out word for word event for event on how Trump would behave if he lost an election. I’ll try to dig that out and post the link here for you. it’s astonishing that he made this prediction in January 2017. He nailed Trump up and down. Lots of people like to say now (after the fact, armchair, journalists) that “oh we all knew this all the time” and knew Trump would act like this but that is just not true. If that were true, some of the best minds in academe and business would not have resigned their jobs to join Trump’s cabinet. Some of the best military career folks would never have accepted assignments with him. Have you seen the movie ‘Unfit’?
It’s a fabulous 2020 movie with interviews from former cabinet members and current clinical psychologists and psychiatrists describing who Trump really is. Back in Goldwater’s campaigning days people slandered him by saying he was mentally ill. And the ‘Goldwater rule’ became part of mental health diagnosis: one has to have the patient in the office and diagnosed by direct observation before a diagnosis can be made. However, these clinical and teaching professionals interviewed in ‘Unfit’ are saying that because Trump has such a vast amount of film on record that they can get a much better read on his mental health, than if he were sitting in front of them (lying). They have deemed him to be a malignant narcissist. It fits. Just thought you might want to take a peek at that movie if you haven’t seen it. It is free on YouTube: but you have to put up with a few commercials.
I don't think the christian nationalists give one hoot about he founders. They've been radicalized for years not to accept it or not care about it. I'm sorry. The same applies to separation of church and state. Evangelicals don't care so long as they, in the minority, get what they want and that's not us. I don't know what drives them other than the fire and fury of umpf and his handlers.
The founders also created an underground maze in Philly and elsewhere so they could allow their slaves to continue being slaves with few people knowing.
If you don't know of the org, Faithful America, you may be interested. "Faithful America is the largest online community of Christians putting faith into action for social justice. Our members -- Catholic, Protestant, and more -- are sick of sitting by quietly while Jesus' message of good news is hijacked by the religious right to serve a hateful political agenda. We're organizing the faithful to challenge Christian nationalism and white supremacy and to renew the church's prophetic role in building a more free and just society." They are doing important work imo and, of course, are receiving many, many threats as a result.. https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/about-us/
Valere, you might be interested in the writings of the late Forrest Church... "So Help Me God: The Founding Fathers and the First Great Battle Over Church and State." Also, "The Separation of Church and State: Writings on a Fundamental Freedom by America's Founders." Forrest was prolific. He was senior minister of All Souls Unitarian Church NYC (I'm a member, he was much loved). His father was Frank Church, US Senator-Idaho [D].
I agree that Americans are lacking in awareness of our system of government. During times like this I often ask myself how I would address this issue. Forums like this are great, but I know that so many Americans are more interested in their daily life and not willing or able to stay current in their knowledge. As a young man I used to believe the best way to keep abreast of current affairs - and our political system - was through the media, our news broadcasters, as an impartial method to inform and, yes, educate too. But that is no longer the case, for me anyway, as I find I have more questions at the end of a news article than at the beginning. It's frustrating. I have no wish to become a Constitutional scholar, but I certainly appreciate someone I trust giving me honest, factual information - and maybe a reference to where to get more detailed information on the subject in question.
James do you get Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack? It compliments this one as it gives us straight history to current happenings
Lawyers learn to think this way, and the good ones are able to juggle all the details, find inconsistencies, and make sense for the big picture.
Only really good ones do. I worked with lawyers for 20 years and I still wonder how some passed the bar.
Kathi, yes that’s the ticket! We need a big, um, something like a multi-level score board to follow all of the machinations these crooks concocted.
It’s like I’m in an alternate universe searching for the missing parts.
You are an immense help even to us lawyers. This is a huge amount of detailed stuff that you sift through for us. I know that you do it because it's important, and that's one more reason that we have to thank you.
Seems there may be more members of the House and Senate who are getting the butterfly wing treatment. They need to be asked the hard questions too. Ted Cruz and Mike Lee for starters.
And Ron "everyone's cell screen is black when receiving calls" Johnson, the Russian asset from Wisconsin.
Hi Just another: I love your name, and needed the smile:)
Mike Johnson - was one of the chief planners of the insurrection. I wonder if he is co-conspirator #6?
Speaker Moses?! That might explain his inexplicable effort to blurr faces on security footage of people in the Capitol J6, I wondered how he could tell who was needing protection from the DOJ...oh, right...all of them! Vote 💙
Always enlightening. As a constituent of Ron Johnson who read Jack Smith’s J6 indictment I wonder your thoughts of whose testimony resulted in Sen Johnson’s name appearing in para 106. Also wondering your thoughts if Jack Smith may be moving toward more indictments for other players, including members of Congress? Thank you.
Pleeeez
Yes, please, throw all of those crooks in jail.
It’s difficult to conceive all of the slime.
Oh Sheri, Good spotting that detail. Please and soon.
I was just wondering the same thing last night (we spend an enormous amount of brain energy on this stuff).
It would be speculation, but I wonder if as a trial progresses more indictments fall out along the way. I don’t see why they would not.
As a retired attorney, Hermina, my opinion is that evidence of being an insurrectionist is just that: evidence, not proof. But that determination is almost moot when dealing with a Supreme Court whose members, mindful of the accusations of conservative bias that abound these days, will want to finesse this via a decision that doesn't require the majority to say, one way or the other, that Trump did or did not commit insurrection. I don't personally care about the outcome of the current Colorado and Maine cases, since it looks like Trump is in line for the GOP nomination anyway. What I do hope the SC will do is make a determination, perhaps by at least 8-1 or 7-2 if not unanimously, that no person is above the law, even presidents, meaning that Trump doesn't have the immunity he seeks. THEN the various cases can move forward with a sense that Trump's numerous days in court will not turn out well for him.
I agree with you, David, that Scotus is probably going to lean into their conservative agenda and devise a way to wriggle out of declaring the obvious - (1) That trump took an oath as President to protect the Constitution, (2) That he engaged in an insurrection, and (3) That the office of the President is indeed listed among the positions that come under the jurisdiction of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. I can't help but believe that if this involved any other presidential candidate, we could expect the court system to take this Amendment seriously and that candidate would be disqualified, full stop. Unfortunately, we're seeing some judges who obviously see trump as above the law, are frightened (understandably) of trump and his followers, or for whatever other reasons, will refuse to acknowledge the evidence. If trump truly isn't above the law then we should see consistency in the Scotus rulings: (1) he shouldn't be granted immunity, and (2) his actions leading up to and on January 6th should be deemed to fall squarely within the Disqualification Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3 of the same Constitution he swore to preserve, protect and defend - regardless of whether he's a former President, GOP frontrunner, or the wonderful, illustrious donald trump.
Springing to mind, in reading so many thoughtful reflections on this wickedly tangled web, are Trump’s patently false claims, from the Mueller investigation forward, of a baseless, years’ long "witch hunt."
Why, after three long years plus, are we all still scrambling to ferret out the facts of such duplicity?
Let one count the ways:
(a) Refusals to comply with Jan. 6 Committee subpoenas on the part of former "senior presidential advisor" Steve Bannon and pathetically self-aggrandizing Roger Stone;
(b) assertions of Fifth Amendment privileges against self incrimination by a litany of Trump enablers (let’s note ever so briefly and in particular Giuliani, Eastman, Chesebro, Sidney Powell, Jeffrey Clark); and
(c) my personal favorite, the nearly 150 elected Congressional representatives (among them, Ron Johnson, Scott Perry, Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz and MTG) who steadfastly cling to a (civilly adjudicated) rapist and (democracy-) murdering immigrant(-by-familial heritage - Drumf, really?).
No juvenile, unhinged anger on my part, just the short list of the many reasons it is so hard for us as a republic devoted to the rule of law to out a simple truth: a candidate like Trump is fit for neither ballot or office. He is the very epitome of "Un-American".
Thanks all for your patience and for such a thoughtful analysis of why the wheels of justice turn so slowly in a matter of such existential importance.
I too hope for charges for the 150 or so Republican pals drumpf expected to clear his way to complete destruction of our democracy.
That so many Americans are so poorly educated and frankly stupid as to support this ugly fraud of a man I lay squarely on Reagan. And HIS Republican enablers.
“Unfortunately, we're seeing some judges who obviously see trump as above the law, are frightened (understandably) of trump and his followers, or for whatever other reasons, will refuse to acknowledge the evidence.”
As for being “frightened” or “for whatever other reasons”….
Dare I say they are not frightened. Why? Because they are complicit. They are fully vested in and are part of the scheme to make the USA a “Christian Democracy”. They have nothing to fear. Those “some judges who obviously see trump as above the law” also see themselves “as above the law”.
Great points, George. I agree.
What I am hoping is that fear will not play a part in it, because (I hope that) the current members of the US Supreme Court will decide to protect the Republican Party by agreeing that djt is disqualified from holding office.
I was right with you until the words wonderful and illustrious were put near each other regarding the insipid clown.
Thank you soooo much David. I know you wrote to Hermina, but I think I had it backwards: I was thinking Colorado being heard by the SCOTUS would be powerful to keep Trump off the ballots of other states. Because while, yes, we want him convicted in a court or courts of law, most important is that he never gets near the White House again. Do you have an opinion on that?
The 14th Amendment, Article 3 doesn't say that a finding of guilt by a court is required to know that an insurrection has been commmitted against the US constitution. 45 himself has stated in court that he didn't take an oath to support the constitution - as though that (another of his lies) will excuse his insurrection against our governing document.
What I am hoping is that the current members of the U.S. Supreme Court will decide to protect the Republican Party (and everyone else) by agreeing that DJT is disqualified from holding office.
The ancient saying- “A fish rots from the head down” captures the insidious corrupting process that followed Trump’s rise and abuse of power. Harvard Law grad Chesebro is just one of untold people whose latent moral compass was criminal, but probably would never have found himself a felon without the inticing moral rot that Trump flooded all levels of society with. Chesebro, Barr, Cohen, Flynn, Meadows etc etc all jumped at the chance to abandon their facades of moral and ethical principles once given the opportunity to swim in Trump’s ever waiting depraved cesspool of moral turpitude.
Good point, Dr. Cornwall. What was in it for Barr, Cohen, Flynn, Meadows, Cheseboro, Giuliani, et al? What could be the incentive to do something so risky as to crash and burn one's reputation and professional career?
None of them ever would admit it publicly or probably to themselves, but I believe that after 8 years of Obama, they all saw his Secretary of State Clinton and his VP Biden as surrogates for the continuance of a non-white take over of the country by people of color. Trump was the very unlikely but perfect demagogue for fueling the masses against that happening, so Chesebro and the others like Flynn and Barr were eager to sign on to help Trump.
I think it’s too simplistic to say they all were just drawn to be close to the seat of power.
The gnawing fear of so many in the Maga movement- both for elites like Chesebro and for the white working class foot soldiers, is simply seen in the make America great again credo-
a credo of fear of whites being replaced and losing economic and political power.
That’s the driving force behind the epic showdown this next election is about.
It boils down to a coin toss between democracy and a white, confederacy style neo-fascism.
It reminds me of the movie, Trading Places. Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche own a Commodities business. They have done something that is about to get them in hot grease with their clients, so they come up with a plan to hire a fall guy, Eddie Murphy. As a salute to racism, they select a homeless (PC term is now "unhoused") black man to take over the company and ultimately get crucified. In the end, he was smarter than they had anticipated, and their plan backfired. Trump was the unlikely demagogue for the job, which was likely part of his appeal. He was one of the wealthiest men in the world, or at least a billionaire, who comes along and offers to drain the swamp. That seemed like a worthwhile project to all the Obama haters, so he was hired. I'm not sure what swamp he drained, but he failed abysmally to clean the shallow end of the pond rid it of all the bottom feeders. In fact he bought a chain of shallow ponds and started raising his own bottom feeders.
I forgot to mention. Rudy Giuliani was supposed to be running the pond business. Not playing political strategist.
I think you have put your finger on the essence of the biggest problem, and it dovetails exquisitely with the sense of grievance that so many people feel for a variety of reasons. Victimhood.
Thank you David.
💯THIS: “The gnawing fear of so many in the Maga movement...a credo of fear of whites being replaced and losing economic and political power.
That’s the driving force behind the epic showdown this next election is about.”
I couldn’t agree more.
One way or another, most of these issues come down to a need for (and fear of losing) economic and political power - i.e. safety, security and personal agency - and are triggered at a primal level that is often unconscious.
We can see this throughout history and in every major conflict around the globe, or at our own kitchen table.
Thank you Wendy- yes the primal fear of loss of power is often unconscious and is the emotional fuel for both demagogues and even kitchen table tyrants to manipulate, stoke and exploit for their own ends.
power is >> cash
fear is >> power
My theory is that, like Epstein, Trump was a dirt collector. On video.
Mark
Are you suggesting Trump had dirt on Barr (et al) and fear of being exposed is the power he has over them? Fascinating theory! Wonder if we'll ever know?
Since revenge seems to be Trumps's driving force, he wouldn't think twice about retaliating against anyone who cooperates with prosecutors. The next chapters in this sordid tale get curiouser and curiouser.
We need to become ultra-savvy, educated, confronting the blatherskite to not let Trump near the White House.
Cheryl and Valarie,
(Wrote you a response 12 hrs ago that seemed to quickly disappear- been scratching my head about that... but perhaps it was me!)
But I agree entirely with Liz Cheney’s observations that large number of Republican congressman appear to be living in actual fear - of something more compelling that ‘merely’ getting primaried.
1) We do know that both tfg and his MAGAT acolytes DO threaten physical harm, perhaps to family members as well as their marks directly.
2) We know they have planned kidnappings and conducted armed assaults.
But I also suspect tfg operated honeypot traps (perhaps with bird-of-a-feather Stormy Daniels, possibly with Epstein and Max.... I have NO data).
For years he has operated high end hotels catering to the appetites and lifestyles of the rich and powerful. & sometimes operating at a ‘loss’.
Every such high end hotel has significant surveillance staff and capacity.
It would ASTOUND me if it never occurred to Trump or his family that there was easy money in video-taping people who presumed they had privacy for any of a variety of salacious or compromised liaisons.
His team sure nibbled quickly on the ‘dirt on Hillary’ worm dangled by the Russians, so one knows some of the gutters where their minds run.
People who threaten and effect physical harm are not likely to have moral compunctions about using videotape blackmail. It is a lot less expensive than financial inducements. It is a lot more durable.
I have NO data, just connecting the dots with the characters. Putin and others tfg admires would not hesitate to be doing this.
When an arrow flying through the air makes a left turn, there’s an unseen force in the vicinity of that turn.
The republicans act like they are owned; there is an unseen force in effect.
tRumps's actions in his business dealings have been likened to those of the mafia. Hired undocumented immigrants to do scut work constructing his buildings, then refused to pay them knowing they're not going to complain to authorities. (Mary Trump's book.)
Can only imagine what dirt he collected from 'friends' he introduced to Epstein.
Agree, Mark, the 'loyalty' he's accrued absolutely seems fear-based. Those in Congress who don't speak up probably probably suspect he 'has something' on them.
"Be a shame if voters in your district ever found out..."
Barr is his own proud evil.
Mark, Do you think Epstein had dirt on Trump?
I think it would make NO difference to MAGA voters whatever dirt is revealed on trump.
Exactly. They don’t seem to care about any of his convictions thus far. He’s convinced them that everything has been a lie and a witch hunt. I actually heard him say on a YouTube: “I am the chosen one.” So now he’s not just a victim, but a martyr. Who will never take an ounce of accountability. I’m also guessing MAGA have not seen ‘Unfit’ in which clinical psychologist and psychiatrist, label him a malignant narcissist.
I would put money on Yes. Please review the date below, it was tfg DOJ that did this review, so it needs to be revisited by a non complicit DOJ, IMO;
https://abcnews.go.com/US/key-takeaways-justice-department-review-jeffrey-epstein-sweetheart/story?id=74222922
An arrest stopped and then a major coverup.
Major cover up pretty much describes the entire term of tfg.
Hey Cheryl and Valere,
(Wrote you a response 12 hrs ago that seemed to quickly disappear- been scratching my head about that... but perhaps it was me!)
But I agree entirely with Liz Cheney’s observations that large number of Republican congressman appear to be living in actual fear - of something more compelling that ‘merely’ getting primaried.
1) We do know that both tfg and his MAGAT acolytes DO threaten physical harm, perhaps to family members as well as their marks directly.
2) We know they have planned kidnappings and conducted armed assaults.
But I also suspect tfg operated honeypot traps (perhaps with bird-of-a-feather Stormy Daniels, possibly with Epstein and Max.... I have NO data).
For years he has operated high end hotels catering to the appetites and lifestyles of the rich and powerful. & sometimes operating at a ‘loss’.
Every such high end hotel has significant surveillance staff and capacity.
It would ASTOUND me if it never occurred to Trump or his family that there was easy money in video-taping people who presumed they had privacy for any of a variety of salacious or compromised liaisons.
His team sure nibbled quickly on the ‘dirt on Hillary’ worm dangled by the Russians, so one knows some of the gutters where their minds run.
People who threaten and effect physical harm are not likely to have moral compunctions about using videotape blackmail. It is a lot less expensive than financial inducements. It is a lot more durable.
I have NO data, just connecting the dots with the characters. Putin and others tfg admires would not hesitate to be doing this.
When an arrow flying through the air makes a left turn, there’s an unseen force in the vicinity of that turn.
The republicans act like they are owned; there is an unseen force in effect.
Thank you Mark, I do think Jack Smith, Fani Willis, Letitia James, all treat Trump as they would a mob boss. Regarding your first point, Mitt Romney has had to pay $5,000 per day since January 6. That is almost $2 million per year. And he publicly has stated he knows those kinds of threats are made to others in the Republican party, and they don’t have the resources to pay for protection that would allow them to speak out about Trump or remain in office. Romney said he was leaving public service because of threats made. And he wrote a book detailing the level of corruption. Republican Congress members who have a core, such as Adam Kinzinger, have resigned and they have publicly stated they have resigned - or plan not to run - because of corruption - and threats to their families. Adam Kinzinger has posted graphic threats against himself and his family period Liz Cheney has received death threats. We saw the behavior on January 6 and it’s pure mob and enticed by Trump. There’s no other word for it. I think the most chilling words I’ve heard about January 6 has been the testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson that Trump said ‘ he could’ve handled things better at the Capitol’ and that she was threatened following her January 6 testimony. The Republican party is now experiencing immense fear among their leadership. Many of the Republicans have no core in the first place, and they were put into their positions in the primaries because they were corruptible (promises made for financial gain once elected). Once they got elected, they were corrupted, and indeed ‘someone’ may be holding something over them. Blackmail is against the law. Why aren’t they going to DOJ with it? I’ve sometimes wondered how they have such change of heart once they make their trips to Mara Largo. Some have been outspoken about Trump causing the damage of January 6, but very few. suddenly. Curiously after any of them visit Trump at Mara Largo they change their tune very quickly to support him again. I’m not so sure their visits to Mara Largo are entirely of their own volition. But the most noticeable change after their visits, is they become quite quiet in their criticisms of Trump. And they return to being supporters. But agree: there seems to be some fear working on them. (Only speculation, but Kevin McCarthy‘s decision not to run again, followed his phone call with Trump. And he’s not out of the crosshairs but if he’s not in a public position, a scandal isn’t much news. Maybe that was part of what he weighed when he decided to retire). I think some of the Republican voters are waking up to the fact that Trump is unhinged. T
But not enough to turn the tide, and we will have to educate the fence sitters.
Spot-on, concur totally 💯🎯.. and nicely articulated. The reality is that "The Donald" openly and brazenly enabled and encouraged the underbelly of society... no morals or character necessary... just "win" at all costs... the personally selfish ends (monetary, power, etc) justify the means.
Yes, although they find rationalizations to justify their actions in a wide variety of theories, conspiratorial and otherwise.
Thank you for the update and you're right, it's complicated. I think we're also seeing the being of all the rats turning on one another. Usually, when that happens, we get more and more information about how awful it all was. I agree with you that we need all the details and all the names to get beyond this.
I think I need a proof reader. My second sentence should read "I think we're also seeing the beginning of all the rats turning on one another."
And you can add, ‘and chewing off each others tails too’. On another note, I’m really wondering about these high priced and(once)well regarded law schools who seem to have churned out their share of bonkers attorneys who cloned onto the trumptator.
Back around the time I was in grad school at Harvard (‘85-‘88), was appalled to learn they had just dropped (or renamed?) a “Strategic Misrepresentation” course... but some of the instructors were good people, not merely smart or OW privileged.
Patricia, I agree: they have turned on Kenneth Chesebro. But he is a rat. He is a traitor. Even the rats don't like him...
Exactly... I liken it to the phrase "Legal Sharks will eat their own when expedient... or pissed off enough".
You can edit your comments by clicking on the three dots in the right margin, Patricia.
Thank you, that'll come in handy.
It does, indeed.
My version won’t allow comment edits and I’m a loyal, paid subscriber. To my great frustration, the three buttons only allow “hide, delete and share.”
Try reading in browser instead (place above title to choose it). Edit feature then shows up in 3 dots. Might be needed with readong on phone?
That's weird. Why don't you mention that to Substack?
support@substack.zendesk.com
This only works in a web browser. I read & write primarily on my iPad, and the edit option is unavailable.
We might want to write to Substack to ask if there is a way it can make self-editing available on all platforms and devices.
I can edit on my iPhone
So can I.
“Like rats running from a burning barn,” I think, is the phrase used by a Vermont reporter during the Civil War to describe a Union attack on a band of confederates who had been destroying vital Union infrastructure (telegraph lines and railroad tracks) among the Potomac River.
... along the Potomac
Eh! Being works just fine 😉
I am wondering if Ron Johnson will be indicted for his role in the fake elector scheme. I sure hope so. He is such an embarrassment in our state.
He’s an embarrassment to the nation!
Your words to Jack's ears... but I am willing to bet that is just one more card that Jack is keeping in his hand until it can be most effective.
Ron Johnson has always seemed to escape accountability.
yes, but his virtual kevlar shield is cracking from his horrible antics and will soon shatter. Get your Popcorn ready. 🍿🍿
I hope corrupt traitors like Chesebro aren’t let off the hook . . . I want to see them ALL HANG, and I want to see tRump BROKEN and HANGING. It’s what traitors deserve. It’s high time the American People saw justice done. Between a Supremely Corrupt SCOTUS, Stocastic terrorism from Repugs and Neo Nazi fascists pulling puppet strings--WE DESERVE to see some iota of JUSTICE.
We need an informed citizenry to ward off the Nazis.
Valerie, you bring up a most important point: we, the citizens, need to know and understand the harm this group of rats inflicted on this country.
You can tell I’m hot under the collar with anger and disgust.
Grrrr
Hi Doc, I am glad you are warmed up. It is important not just to 'know' but to have the skill and will to bark them down when they spew blatherskite. More of us need to say: "No! that is not true!" Grrrr. Woof.
Extra credit for “blatherskite.”
Yep, and call them on their blatherskite.
Hi a Doc reads,
I wanted to revisit your comment to send you this link. I hope it works - another substack member here sent it to me. Let me know should you have trouble opening the link. I read it last night and I was stunned at the way Germany's legal caved:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://commons.stmarytx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=lmej
It opens for me when it use the beginning chrome- (with the dash included) If it does not open with the link it is at St. Mary's University, Journal on Legal Malpractice and Ethics, Vol 10 Number 2
"Complicity in the Perversion of Justice: The Role of Lawyers in Complicity in the Perversion of Justice: The Role of Lawyers in Eroding the Rule of Law in the Third Reich Eroding the Rule of Law in the Third Reich Cynthia Fountaine Southern Illinois University, cfountaine@siu.edu" published July, 2020"
With so many attorneys involved, I am wondering why there is a dearth of information from the American Bar Association on whether they are conducting ethics investigations. I have only heard about John Eastman in CA (he had a court case by the CA bar association, I believe he lost his teaching position at a CA university, and is now waiting for the judge to make her final decision. And Jenna Ellis, Colorado has received a complaint. But the rest are skating.
And this movie: 'Unfit.' It is fab. Clinical psychologists and teaching/practicing psychiatrists label Trump a malignant narcissist. They no longer need to abide by the Goldwater Rule (a patient must be examined by a medical professional in person, over time). These extremely qualified doctors claim that patients (especially narcissist) will lie to their faces - but they can observe Trump in myriad settings with such a cache of videos posted on-line. To a T - they all said he was a malignant narcisissist - the worst kind, as they have no conscience about revenge/punishment and are 'agressive, manipulative and abusive without remorse.' 'Unfit' is free on YouTube (but has some commercials that one can click off); about 1-1/2 hours; full of interviews from staff (credible folks who left when they experienced his narcissistic personality disorder first hand). And this explains why his former military chiefs have said he is unfit to be president. Just recommending in the case you have a spare bit of time to read the article on Nazi Germany legal, and watch 'Unfit' because it's terrific information to have in your arsenal. It gives one a sense of having some control: lots of information to work with and rebut blatherskite - if that crops up and you care to confront. Hand them a note with 'Unfit' printed on it and a copy of the Nazi legal - that ought to chill anyone.
I get that way too when I despair.
I think a worse punishment for a narcissist like drumpf would be incarceration. It helps with the rage.
You did good. They did bad! Unbelievable....please everybody read this. Spread the word and vote blue. Thank you counselor. You truly make a difference.
I am curious as to why the senators and congressmen that were deeply involved in all of January 6th haven’t been questioned let alone indicted. Ron Johnson, Lindsay Graham and others are involved in J6 up to their eyeballs.....they need to be investigated and, if complicit, removed from office due to the 14th Amendment.
Maybe a recall effort in Wisconsin for Johnson would be appropriate. The Dems now have a majority on the State Supreme Court if anyone wanted to block such an effort legally. I bet it would succeed though...Wis is 50-50 D/R, and I'm not sure all though R's like what Johnson is accused of doing. Would certainly help the Senatorial count for next year.
It's really too bad the DSCC didn't invest early and seriously in the campaign of the Mandela Barnes, Wisconsin's young, Black, popular former Lt Gov, when he ran for the US Senate against Johnson in 2020. He lost by 1%.
That should have happened during the House hearing.... but, it is hard to go after colleagues who may also know some icky things about those asking questions.
Don't forget Hawley and Cruz.
Hi Joyce, I edited others’ papers and journal submissions at an R1, so in a sense I can probably proofread ‘well enough.’ I did a quick scan as I read yours for errors and actually, I didn’t spot a single one — so as ever, your work is perfect and even if there IS an error, your work is perfect.
Regarding Kenneth Cheeseboro, I believe when he first came into the White House was when he made his first false elector plan for Wisconsin. The head of the Wisconsin Republican party referred him to speak with Rudy Giuliani and he was invited to join the White House in November 2020.
So far as him saying, he wasn’t “involved” on January 6. Chesebro is just a common liar, liar pants on fire. He was getting signatures from New Mexico fake electors the evening of January 5, so they could be couriered to the Capitol.
So he didn’t see it coming that he was going to be thrown under the bus? Who else would ‘running down his face black hair dye’ throw under the bus? If not Kenneth?
Roll... role? 🤔
Yep! But I just kept on rolling through all the roles played by this bunch of yahoos.
LOL!
?
Valere, Joyce's column is, as you note, extraordinary. Your comments are also on point. I can only imagine Joyce writing AND attempting to proof at the end of a long day. I am not a good proofreader of my own material. So, I am heartened to see the use of roll for role.
Ahh. Thank you for explaining that.
Hi Bill, I have always thought Kenneth Cheeseboro would serve time.
Do you think he will serve time?
Bill Katz Ps #1,
If anyone especially John Eastman who already took credit for being the mastermind behind, the fake elector scheme, can get an ounce of room, or a day out of jail by blaming Kenneth Chesebro, they will. They will label him as the planner and the architect, and as such, he is eligible for jail.
No, I don't think any of them will.
Explain please. That’s a disappointment.
Valere, this retired (but not really!) editor did spot one teeny tiny error in Paragraph 7:
"Chesebro tells prosecutors, "if I had known..." should be "Chesebro tells prosecutors, "If I had known..." (capital I in "If")
But, yes, Joyce did a terrific job without her two proofreaders, whom I hope recover soon.
ps: this entire Substack is on fire!! There is no prayer for Trump with all of us standing together with Joyce:))
Hi Mim, I spotted as well….ie, “…Trump campaign lawyers, who[se] emails…”
“…that Morgan though[t] John Eastman…”
and a couple of other mis-spells, but I said it was perfect because it was, despite having a couple of very minor grammar, spelling issues:)))
Joyce's legal content is so absolutely superlative, I didn’t want her to even think about minor errors:)
It looks like she’s got some great volunteers from the Substack for proofing though. And because of their locations she should just about have 24/7 coverage. I wouldn’t dare try to proofread her work other than minor grammar because of the content. I worked in academe and policy. Legal is a whole different ballgame 💙💙
Hi again, Valere.
I believe Joyce just needed a couple of commas in the sentence that included "Trump campaign lawyers, who, emails reveal, were in the thick of the fake electors committee..." She did not write "whose emails were in the thick of..."
You're right about "Morgan though(t)...." I'd seen that too but forgot to mention it.
I think we all have learned to expect some misspellings from even the best writers, even those whose posts are proofread, because proofreaders do miss some things too. Considering the writers do this every day (or several times a week), their attention to grammatical detail is generally excellent and praiseworthy. What irks me are the people who post, say, on Facebook and never proofread their posts before (or even after) hitting Send.
Clearly, Valere and Mim are fine editors. Wait! Was that comma after "Clearly" really necessary?
Yep.
And thanks!
As others have mentioned, it’s imperative, that the traders in Congress who facilitated January 6 must be held accountable.
Should we say “conspired” instead of “facilitated”?
Yes.
Mike Johnson conspired. I hope Jack Smith and his team subpoena Johnson's (and his wife's) cellphone records - but Smith and Company are so far ahead in the game, I'm sure they know plenty.
Exactly... betting there is someone under Jack's purview who is focused on that avenue.
I totally agree with you!
I know you are concerned about your proofreaders. Hope they both get well soon. In the meantime, you did a fine job getting all of your points across. I keep hearing lots of whining from Cheseboro and it’s annoying. This Morgan guy might be affable but he’s guilty as hell too. They all are, otherwise, why would they be pleading their innocence? Let them rat on each other, eat their own, so-to-speak.
Hi Marlene, You may be aware, but Chesebro is co-conspirator #5 in Jack Smith's indictment. We heard early on from Joyce (back in August) that DOJ prosecutors do not bring charges unless they are 95% certain of conviction. And in a case with this much importance hanging on it, I would think Jack Smith has plenty of evidence on Kenneth Chesebro. Jack Smith is saving him for later to indict. And you have to have 'done plenty' to end up as unnamed co-conspirator #5. Of course we are supposed to say: "Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." I would be plenty worried if I were Ken Chesebro: I have always thought he was the worst traitor of all. He came up with the fake elector scheme (John Eastman took credit, but Ken Chesebro designed it and took it to the Wisconsin Republicans).
You’re so correct on all counts. Unless Cheseboro spills his entire guts, Smith will indeed indict him. He was THE architect. He’s not the worst traitor, however, but he is one of quite a few.
I think he has already been indicted as co-conspirator #5. He has not been 'officially' named but the legals have named him.
Thanks, Joyce! Great update on the liars among us....
It appears Morgan has that special talent of being able to lie as easily as breathing, a prized trait in the 'all the best people' administration. He was not under Oath when he talked to the J6 Committee but was reminded to not lie to Congress. I wonder if the DOJ interviewed and received the same story, because there is definitely a different story being told in the email.
From what I can surmise, Chesebro has been a tad disingenuous in dealing with the "facts" of his involvement. I don't blame him cuz he is in deep kimchi, as my former Korean wife used to say when a person was in hOT WATER. I doubt it will help him in the end, and I believe his attitude goes back to Joyce telling us long ago that Chesebro thinks he is the smartest guy in the room, any room. My sincere hope is that the others from Congress will be indicted for their parts in this scheme to keep trump illegally in the WH, especially Ron Johnson, Andy Biggs, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Louie Gohmert, Paul Gosar, and MTG. That would make 2024 a greater new year, eh? carry on