I know ! He really does look like he has eye makeup on, but I bet he has double eyelashes like Elizabeth Taylor had. There's a name for it which I forget....
My favorite, wild and wonderful, cousin was named Karen. She died at age 25. I adored her. And I hate that her beautiful name is being used in such a derogatory fashion.
I’m also angry that Karen was turned into a culture joke. Remember when Apple put out iPods in the color red for AIDS awareness? Then magenta for cancer—had NFL players wearing pink shoes?, then the American Flag for MAGA. Red for MAGA. The meanings given to all those things make it so I no longer choose to buy clothes that are red or hang my flag out. But Karen is the worst because of the stigma to all the Karen’s of the world.
I agree with all that you wrote. However, at this time, I think that hanging a flag with a great big "HARRIS WALZ OBVIOUSLY" (I have one of those) would actually be quite effective! (What did the pink shoes symbolize? And did any of the NFL players wear them? Once? or for a season?)
Not for me. For me the contrast was important. One man was a steady, thoughtful truth teller who was polite and even but not a pansy. The other was a too slick know it all who didn’t believe what he himself was saying but was pretending he did. Which one would you hand the nuclear codes to?
Needless to say, Walz. But I'm very aware politically. I'm thinking of a dumb person (40 M of them) who knows nothing, and just looks at who is best dressed, etc., etc. etc.
Sandra, Regrettably, fact-checking not displayed in real time virtually has no impact on anyone not able to discern, in real time, the non-stop lies and falsehoods undergirding practically every one of Vance’s remarks. The network ceding its responsibility to fact-check during the debate, in my view, is a shameful abdication of its critical function to expose lies and reveal the truth.
It's my opinion that 'No fact checking' equals 'License to Lie', and I don't see much point to that For our side. Tho I also remember Trumpet complaining about the minimal fact checking ABC did on his and Harris' debate, and announcing that when he's elected he will cancel their broadcast license. I can't help but wonder if that threat didn't intimidate CBS.
Maybe it intimidated them, but likely it was a bunch of their Sinclair-owned affiliates. Someone last night mentioned that Larry Ellison (uber-conservative Silicon Valley Oracle gazillionaire) will soon have a controlling interest in Paramount, which includes CBS. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/05/business/media/paramount-skydance-larry-ellison.html
Because Trump is now irrelevant. The real billionaires still run the show. And Vance is only too happy to oblige them. Until he too becomes irrelevant and is replaced by some other fascist toady. We are and will remain in very deep trouble.
David, a friend and I were on the phone together watching on MSNBC and with Robert Reich through Substack. Before he called me, he kept muting Vance every time he started speaking. He is also blind and found Vance just too problematic to listen to. Listening together it was easier and we could comment and note his frequent lies. I am wondering if anyone has fact-checked and counted the number of lies. I bet he and Trump were probably close in number of lies in their debates.
I was yelling at my TV when Vance said he wanted women to trust them. I kept saying that you need to trust women first! He outright lied about wanting a national abortion ban, and couldn’t answer the question about the 2020 election. Vance might have been more polished and rehearsed, but Walz was genuine and kindhearted. No question … it was Walz’s night.
I thought another Walz Moment that is flying under the radar was when he called out Vance for undercutting the importance of expertise as he touted “t’s wisdom”. Forget the expertise of economists, scientists and medical doctors, and follow the wisdom of t. Walz’s statement referenced ‘over the last few minutes you have tried to downplay the value of experts … if you need a doctor, Minnesota has the Mayo Research Center” and “Minnesota has great health programs”. Walz should be getting more press for this and how it reflects on Project 2025, which Vance supports fully!
Unfortunately, I think Vance did a pretty good job of play acting a gracious man, at least for people who have not been carefully following his hateful rhetoric about women and about Haitians. F most of the debate Walz seemed dumbfounded by the constant stream of lies, and didn’t know how to react. But I think he ended very strongly. He personalized the abortion issue well, and his response to January 6 was brilliant. He put Vance in a lose lose box with his question about whether Trump lost the election. I also think that Vance gave away his strategy of relying on the no fact checking promise with his panicked objection to the one fact-check that the moderators did, his lie about Haitian immigrants. I hope that the Harris campaign can use that moment in an ad, along with Vances refusal to answer whether Trump lost the election.
JD (Just Dumb) Vance is a well-spoken Eddie Haskell trying to suck up to Wally’s parents and then denying that January 6, 2021 was NOT a coup! Disqualifying JD!
Walz won the debate in the last 10 minutes, by challenging Vance on whether Biden won in 2020, and by giving a strong closing statement. Earlier, he gave great answers on abortion, guns, housing, and immigration. He faltered a bit on the China question and he could have been stronger on the economy. Vance basically lied about almost everything, and almost with a smirk on his face.
Donald, oh, Vance had a smirk, I am not surprised. He sounded often as though it were a joke to him and that he had things all wrapped up. I resented it that he put Harris in the position of president for the past 3-1/2 years but couldn't admit Trump got less done in office as president than Harris did as VP, which is the truth.
I think voters who watched who were still genuinely on the fence will be more swayed by the exchanges about 1/6 and who won the election. I think they’ve already baked in that Vance is a lying smooth-talker and Walz is an uncomfortable public speaker who sometimes misspeaks. Plus, Vance lies almost constantly, just like Trump. Do I don’t see the China answer as a face-plant, just a stumble.
You don't see Tienneman Square as a face plant? He admitted he can be grandiose and his facial expressions were pure desperation. I agree w your other points. I am worried this will be used to discredit him w undecided voters.
Mostly because of the lack of funding and care about education for the past 40+ years. Most people have no idea how government functions and civics education seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird.
Turning to the actual substance of things here, Walz did a substantial job on actually answering every single question. Every single question, making it a start for a factually based discussion, something we need desperately now. We have to get over this mini era of lying as a sport and so especially when the quality of our living in this country is at stake.
I think Walz's misstatement about what month he was in China pales in the wake of the constant string of lies and misrepresentations spewed by Vance; although, the moderator called Walz on it. Unfortunately, they were "not allowed " to fact-check Vance.
It was a face plant, but I think he more than made up for it with other responses that I mentioned in my post, especially in light of Vance’s incessant lying and his Grinchy smirk.
I had that same feeling when JDV basically bullied the moderators by continuing to talk over them. But I absolutely loved it when the moderators cut the microphones off the next time they were ready to move on to a new topic for questions!
Our best issue is that Trump is incompetent to stand trial, let alone carry out an oath of office. He was grifter in chief as president. Not a word about his false accusations about Biden, Kamala, all of which are easily proven.
As to Vance, he is Putin's choice to be president. Ukraine is our issue.
Charges have been brought against him in Ohio for making false charges about Haitians. The Republican governor and the mayor of Springfield call him a liar.
Vance is a smooth talker and has a good poker face. But in the areas of experience and qualifications and time spent in government there is no comparison. And he could possibly end up being president if Trump gets elected. I wish that point could've been made tonight.
Vance ahead on self confidence/smooth talking points but Walz scores a knockout on abortion, calling Vance/Trump to task about refusing to admit he lost the election and Walz being nervous, folksy and honest throughout!
The most illuminating comment about the debate came from an under age 40 guy who told Tim Miller he switched from the debate to the WNBA game! The fact Vance refused to say he would certify the election is all anyone needs to know. Twitter will rage debate but the reality is most people aren't on Twitter and already know who they will vote for.
Unfortunately not true. Joyce Vance is on Twitter along with everyone from Jennifer Rubin to David Frum. Celebrities, influencers, writers - the list is long.
Couldn't watch. Came off a phonebank into PA this afternoon, talking to voters who, when asked their most important issue, said "getting rid of Trump" and "you know, doing things right maybe." They know ugly when they see it. Can't imagine any of them watched the debate.
Someone on Threads referred to JD Vance as Eddie Haskell. I love it!!!! Perfect!!!
Eddie Haskell for Maybelline™️
I know ! He really does look like he has eye makeup on, but I bet he has double eyelashes like Elizabeth Taylor had. There's a name for it which I forget....
A very nice "proper lady" who is one of my readers came up with "Jizz Davenport" for Vance. I loved it.
Easier to like if you’re not a Davenport. All of a sudden I have even more sympathy for my friends named Karen.
My favorite, wild and wonderful, cousin was named Karen. She died at age 25. I adored her. And I hate that her beautiful name is being used in such a derogatory fashion.
I’m also angry that Karen was turned into a culture joke. Remember when Apple put out iPods in the color red for AIDS awareness? Then magenta for cancer—had NFL players wearing pink shoes?, then the American Flag for MAGA. Red for MAGA. The meanings given to all those things make it so I no longer choose to buy clothes that are red or hang my flag out. But Karen is the worst because of the stigma to all the Karen’s of the world.
I agree with all that you wrote. However, at this time, I think that hanging a flag with a great big "HARRIS WALZ OBVIOUSLY" (I have one of those) would actually be quite effective! (What did the pink shoes symbolize? And did any of the NFL players wear them? Once? or for a season?)
That’s a good flag. The pink shoes were for breast cancer awareness I believe. I don’t remember how long the players wore the shoes.
To me he's Gaston... from Beauty and the Beast
Had I been Walz, I would have slammed Vance more. But ultimately it was a non event.
Some were disappointed that Joyce didn’t participate but I can understand why she didn’t everyone would’ve wanted to chat with her.
For better or for worse, it is not Walz's style to slam anyone. I HOPE it didn't make him look "weak" to people who don't know better.
He did look weak.
At no time did he look weak. Some what nerous at first but not weak. The one telling lies and skating around direct questions looked weak.
I understand why you would say that. Such a shame that he had to debate a young polished sociopathic lawyer.
Not for me. For me the contrast was important. One man was a steady, thoughtful truth teller who was polite and even but not a pansy. The other was a too slick know it all who didn’t believe what he himself was saying but was pretending he did. Which one would you hand the nuclear codes to?
Needless to say, Walz. But I'm very aware politically. I'm thinking of a dumb person (40 M of them) who knows nothing, and just looks at who is best dressed, etc., etc. etc.
Someone said, Bill, during our time online that WAPO was fact-checking like crazy! Good to know!
Sandra, Regrettably, fact-checking not displayed in real time virtually has no impact on anyone not able to discern, in real time, the non-stop lies and falsehoods undergirding practically every one of Vance’s remarks. The network ceding its responsibility to fact-check during the debate, in my view, is a shameful abdication of its critical function to expose lies and reveal the truth.
It's my opinion that 'No fact checking' equals 'License to Lie', and I don't see much point to that For our side. Tho I also remember Trumpet complaining about the minimal fact checking ABC did on his and Harris' debate, and announcing that when he's elected he will cancel their broadcast license. I can't help but wonder if that threat didn't intimidate CBS.
Maybe it intimidated them, but likely it was a bunch of their Sinclair-owned affiliates. Someone last night mentioned that Larry Ellison (uber-conservative Silicon Valley Oracle gazillionaire) will soon have a controlling interest in Paramount, which includes CBS. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/05/business/media/paramount-skydance-larry-ellison.html
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Agree, Barbara Jo, wholeheartedly! The Harris Trump debate moderators were much better than last night.
Funny, I thought that the moderators for the VP debate were the best of all!
The Haskells have a long history participating in the making of this country. Eddie I am not.
That’s a spot on comparison. It did have that Wally/Eddie vibe. I think there could be a Saturday Night Life sketch there
I agree. It has SNL all over it!
That has been my thoughts for weeks. Guess you have to be the right age to think it.
I've heard him referred to as the Sarah Palin of Dan Quales. Funny, but belies how dangerous he is.
That is SO perfect.
Glad you watched it: I just can’t abide a slick liar—rehearsed, soulless, smiling, sly … I left the room.
Me, too. He's worse than trump bc he's slicker and will live longer.
And he has the endorsement of real billionaires!
All of which makes him scarier even than Trump!
Why?
Because Trump is now irrelevant. The real billionaires still run the show. And Vance is only too happy to oblige them. Until he too becomes irrelevant and is replaced by some other fascist toady. We are and will remain in very deep trouble.
And running for President when Trump finally goes into the Funny Farm.
Funny farm is good. But I'm hoping prison. And he lives a l-o-n-g time.
Constance - now that’s a scary thought.
We did too and turned to Only Murders the minute jD began to extoll his Mawmaw who stayed in abusive marriage.
That was very cringey.
Didn’t Mawmaw try to set her husband on fire in the movie?
David, a friend and I were on the phone together watching on MSNBC and with Robert Reich through Substack. Before he called me, he kept muting Vance every time he started speaking. He is also blind and found Vance just too problematic to listen to. Listening together it was easier and we could comment and note his frequent lies. I am wondering if anyone has fact-checked and counted the number of lies. I bet he and Trump were probably close in number of lies in their debates.
WAPO did, Ruth, I understand!
Me too just revolting.
JD is a terrifying Eddie Haskell.
Yes, soulless.
Let's remember he is an abused child. Hence his rabid "protection" of babies and family.
I am sure he was badly damaged by the goings on in his family
I had to turn it off!
I was yelling at my TV when Vance said he wanted women to trust them. I kept saying that you need to trust women first! He outright lied about wanting a national abortion ban, and couldn’t answer the question about the 2020 election. Vance might have been more polished and rehearsed, but Walz was genuine and kindhearted. No question … it was Walz’s night.
I thought another Walz Moment that is flying under the radar was when he called out Vance for undercutting the importance of expertise as he touted “t’s wisdom”. Forget the expertise of economists, scientists and medical doctors, and follow the wisdom of t. Walz’s statement referenced ‘over the last few minutes you have tried to downplay the value of experts … if you need a doctor, Minnesota has the Mayo Research Center” and “Minnesota has great health programs”. Walz should be getting more press for this and how it reflects on Project 2025, which Vance supports fully!
I agree! Trump consults no one but TV personalities, conspiracy theorists, etc ...
He can't trust women, they did not protect him when he was little.
Yep. He had a tragic youth and we don’t need to suffer from his personality disorder.
Similar to Trump. Just read Mary Trump's substacks.
Well, trust is earned not given
JD Vance is a sociopath. A young one. And that will keep me up tonight.
He is Trump’s mini-me. Scary. Look at The Rachel Maddow Show podcast from Oct 1st on JD Vance
JD Vance gives me nightmares
That show was frightening.
Unfortunately, I think Vance did a pretty good job of play acting a gracious man, at least for people who have not been carefully following his hateful rhetoric about women and about Haitians. F most of the debate Walz seemed dumbfounded by the constant stream of lies, and didn’t know how to react. But I think he ended very strongly. He personalized the abortion issue well, and his response to January 6 was brilliant. He put Vance in a lose lose box with his question about whether Trump lost the election. I also think that Vance gave away his strategy of relying on the no fact checking promise with his panicked objection to the one fact-check that the moderators did, his lie about Haitian immigrants. I hope that the Harris campaign can use that moment in an ad, along with Vances refusal to answer whether Trump lost the election.
Yup. He's a nightmare.
JD (Just Dumb) Vance is a well-spoken Eddie Haskell trying to suck up to Wally’s parents and then denying that January 6, 2021 was NOT a coup! Disqualifying JD!
Walz won the debate in the last 10 minutes, by challenging Vance on whether Biden won in 2020, and by giving a strong closing statement. Earlier, he gave great answers on abortion, guns, housing, and immigration. He faltered a bit on the China question and he could have been stronger on the economy. Vance basically lied about almost everything, and almost with a smirk on his face.
Donald, oh, Vance had a smirk, I am not surprised. He sounded often as though it were a joke to him and that he had things all wrapped up. I resented it that he put Harris in the position of president for the past 3-1/2 years but couldn't admit Trump got less done in office as president than Harris did as VP, which is the truth.
Yes, you’re absolutely right. I meant to say that Vance almost always had a smirk on his face.
I think voters who watched who were still genuinely on the fence will be more swayed by the exchanges about 1/6 and who won the election. I think they’ve already baked in that Vance is a lying smooth-talker and Walz is an uncomfortable public speaker who sometimes misspeaks. Plus, Vance lies almost constantly, just like Trump. Do I don’t see the China answer as a face-plant, just a stumble.
You don't see Tienneman Square as a face plant? He admitted he can be grandiose and his facial expressions were pure desperation. I agree w your other points. I am worried this will be used to discredit him w undecided voters.
There is no such thing as an undecided voter. They’re either voting for Trump or not voting and not saying either. Undecided is a myth.
You have no idea how undecided 10% of Americans can be about just about anything.
Mostly because of the lack of funding and care about education for the past 40+ years. Most people have no idea how government functions and civics education seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird.
Turning to the actual substance of things here, Walz did a substantial job on actually answering every single question. Every single question, making it a start for a factually based discussion, something we need desperately now. We have to get over this mini era of lying as a sport and so especially when the quality of our living in this country is at stake.
I think Walz's misstatement about what month he was in China pales in the wake of the constant string of lies and misrepresentations spewed by Vance; although, the moderator called Walz on it. Unfortunately, they were "not allowed " to fact-check Vance.
😡 Well, THAT scarcely seems fair. Grrr the cheaters/liars make me so frustrated and infuriated.
It was a face plant, but I think he more than made up for it with other responses that I mentioned in my post, especially in light of Vance’s incessant lying and his Grinchy smirk.
Sabrina - not after looking at the overall debate performance and demeanor. That last part of the debate was exceptional for Walz.
I had that same feeling when JDV basically bullied the moderators by continuing to talk over them. But I absolutely loved it when the moderators cut the microphones off the next time they were ready to move on to a new topic for questions!
"Can you hear me now?"
Our best issue is that Trump is incompetent to stand trial, let alone carry out an oath of office. He was grifter in chief as president. Not a word about his false accusations about Biden, Kamala, all of which are easily proven.
As to Vance, he is Putin's choice to be president. Ukraine is our issue.
Charges have been brought against him in Ohio for making false charges about Haitians. The Republican governor and the mayor of Springfield call him a liar.
I have my ballot. I'm filling it out with you all, in good company, right now. Good night and keep talking to every voter you know!
We voted and dropped our ballots off on Saturday. Harris & Walz all the way!
Didn’t move the needle at all for me. HarrisWalz2024 all the way.
The debate should have a new rule: Whatever time a debater goes over his allotment for a question will be granted to his opponent.
If Vance goes 1:12 on his rebuttal, Walz gets 2:12 on his next question.
Sound fair?
Vance is a smooth talker and has a good poker face. But in the areas of experience and qualifications and time spent in government there is no comparison. And he could possibly end up being president if Trump gets elected. I wish that point could've been made tonight.
Really scary!!
Vance ahead on self confidence/smooth talking points but Walz scores a knockout on abortion, calling Vance/Trump to task about refusing to admit he lost the election and Walz being nervous, folksy and honest throughout!
BOOM: that’s why Mike Pence isn’t here!
I found myself removing Vance’s beard and showing his weak chin to go with his weak performance.
JD went light on the eyeliner for once, but a bit heavy on the mascara.
The most illuminating comment about the debate came from an under age 40 guy who told Tim Miller he switched from the debate to the WNBA game! The fact Vance refused to say he would certify the election is all anyone needs to know. Twitter will rage debate but the reality is most people aren't on Twitter and already know who they will vote for.
Who is left on Twitter anyhow? White males with a grudge.
Unfortunately not true. Joyce Vance is on Twitter along with everyone from Jennifer Rubin to David Frum. Celebrities, influencers, writers - the list is long.
Couldn't watch. Came off a phonebank into PA this afternoon, talking to voters who, when asked their most important issue, said "getting rid of Trump" and "you know, doing things right maybe." They know ugly when they see it. Can't imagine any of them watched the debate.