"It’s an enormously sad moment for our country. That doesn’t mean that justice shouldn’t be done—it must be. But for me, at least, it’s more a somber moment of reflection." Yes, Joyce, I agree. We all need to reflect on the redistribution of wealth up to the super rich, loss of hope for millions of workers... starting with Reagan, now with tfg. In what ways did I allow this to happen? I didn't protest loud enough!
It started waay back when. They got the Iranians to not release the hostages to make Carter look bad so he didn't get re-elected. That information just came out last week. So, the GOP have been "cooking the books" in their favor for decades. I for one am tired of this type of "gamesmanship" which now is well concealed by all the dark $ that's being poured into the process. SCOTUS enabled this with their bad decisions as well.
He has been committing crimes without consequence for many years, sometimes daily. If any of these investigations result in charges and accountability, it’s long overdue. I think a dance party would be appropriate if/when “no one is above the law” becomes reality rather than an out of reach ideal.
I thought the exact same thing. I’ve also been wondering whether Trump’s announcement of his Tuesday arrest was in and of itself an attempt to obstruct justice since there was no basis for the announcement.
It's always Trump's modus operandi, and he's consistent. Trump wanted a mob to gather outside the DA's office, that's obvious. But his real motive was to create the suspicion that there are "leaks" in the DA's office. He was hoping it would eventually result in a dismissal.
Joyce, in the second paragraph, is it a typo that “Cohen is currently Rudy’s attorney? Didn’t Michael lose his license to practice law? Not trying to nit-pick but I guess i am!
“If the system works, we continue to be a country governed by laws, not the whims of men.”
Trump’s whims have been navigating him away from accountability for decades while the system was working..However, I understand your point of view re: a former president, but I’m going to have to borrow a term Steve Schmidt likes to use for Kevin McCarthy to describe Trump, former president “in name only”. While it is a sad that one of our former presidents is about to be indicted, I look at the laundry list of criminal conduct and disgusting behavior and fallout from same including treason, so it could not happen to a more deserving person..
What is a very sad thing, is that it has taken so long with so much damage done to our country..
What I think is sad is that so many fellow Americans fell for him in the first place. When he ridiculed the handicapped reporter and dissed the Gold Star family, he told us everything about his character. And after mountains of evidence people continue to flock to him. That is the real tragedy.
Your observation here is sad and I would add, disturbing..It is a telling reminder of who a large swath of American citizens truly are..These are not critical thinkers able to see the unfitness of Trump and recoil in disgust..They are those who agree with his abhorrent views and behavior to whom he represents..I’ve heard pundits speak to the cult like spell the MAGAs have fallen under and how do they return to the fold..But more and more I’m feeling this is just who they’ve always been.
Marycat2021 has it right, as she points out how they were “revealing their own lack of character and judgment”.
They sound weak, fearful with a low self esteem and self worth..I am sorry, it is truly sad..They seem not to understand the evolving nature of the country..They may be your immediate family members, but you are not obligated to include them in your life..if they are unwilling to discuss this matter..
I have read where someone would remark about a family member something like “Oh they’re a good person they just think Trump is the best thing ever” Well I would offer that this is an incongruous statement..
It says they possess an abundance of shortsightedness and stupidity..These people don't have the ability to think in terms of "What If it were me." To suppose, what if they were the ones being hated and blamed for other people's poor life choices ..Yes, more like exceptional stupidity..
Yes and thank you so much, Joyce, for your guiding comments, words of advice from a prosecutor, and suggestions for not permitting Trump to change us and let quintessentially Trumpian factors into our analysis:
"Let’s let our justice system work: slow, imperfect, but still essential to the rule of law. If the system works, we continue to be a country governed by laws, not the whims of men. Let’s not permit Trump to change who we are.”
“I can’t have been the only prosecutor who was cringing to see the case being tried on television before an indictment had even been obtained, instead of waiting for the witnesses to testify in a courtroom. It was quintessentially Trumpian.”
Can’t let Tfg change who we are as a nation then he wins. It is going to take along time to undo what has been done maybe not in my life time (I am 75)with what seems like baby steps toward justice may be but if you add all of them together we may finally reach the goal. That no matter who one is justice will win.
Thank you Joyce for your reporting on these developments. However I am wondering if anyone other than Trump has actually reported that there would likely be indictments coming this week? Or could this be classic Trump spreading a rumor about his victimhood and boosting his fundraising?
Thank you Joyce, this was an exceptional piece. I agree, even after all this time (I felt especially sick when Trump floated down the golden escalator and then went on to be elected), it's important to note that this is indeed a somber time. I almost feel like even if Trump is eventually jailed, the long term ramifications of what he and his family have inflicted upon this country is horrific and will have a long term chilling effects. I am sad and exhausted.
Professor Vance, thank you for your usual clear and insightful explanation of the proceedings. I am in agreement that this case is important because it tests our democratic institutions and how well they apply democratically. Most people do not believe that the rich and powerful are held to account, so seeing what happens is very important to our nation even if it is unprecedented. It is following unprecedented actions on Trump's part. Also, I have read today that there has not been much of a presence of people in the streets defending Trump and his cause. There was more press waiting to report on such actions.
It tells me that the 6 Percenters, Proud Boys, Boogaloo Boys, Oath Keepers, Neo Nazis, KKK, and other White Supremacist groups who are clearly not motivated by moral measures, but avoidance of punishment can be a motivator for some to leave these groups, or disengage. As they see the insurrectionists doing time they may not be so eager to break the law for Trump. Going to prison in disgrace is not the stuff of heroes. So we wait since we know that Trump has been successful in appealing until everyone tires or the political landscape changes. Perhaps he is planning to appeal until he dies. I want justice to prevail and I do not want him for president.
I"m not a lawyer so forgive me for my lack of knowledge in asking this question. Can the testimony received by the Manhattan Grand Jury (or any Grand Jury for that matter) be presented/used as evidence by other grand juries as they consider potential indictments?
Professor, I believe what I appreciate most when I hear or read you is your deeply reflective tone. Admittedly, over the past several days, I have shared the views of most pundits who, unequivocally, have asserted that the Stormy Daniels incident is, by far, not the best case to go out the door first, particularly considering the others are much more central to the crimes against democracy Trump has committed.
In response, you have been the first, and I believe the only commentator, who has analogized the Stormy Daniels incident as “the origin story for Trump’s efforts to manipulate elections in unfair ways.” Were Bragg’s investigation into the hush payments made on Trump’s behalf to lead to the first criminal charge against Trump, I would encourage you to amplify your perspective to help the rest of us view this flagship indictment through your lens.
When I heard Trump was the source for the Tuesday indictment information, I said, nope, not happening. If the city pulled out all the stops for the supposed indictment I feel bad for the people of NY having to foot the bill.
Everyday, still hoping to see/hear about an indictment from somewhere.
Prompt, as usual, with your very relevant legal information. I appreciate it tonight in particular since I was losing the thread on these rapidly occurring events. That is what I get for having my nose in a book instead of my eyes and ears glued to the news I suppose. Thank you!
Thank you for this, especially your sentiments at the end. So well said, as always!
"It’s an enormously sad moment for our country. That doesn’t mean that justice shouldn’t be done—it must be. But for me, at least, it’s more a somber moment of reflection." Yes, Joyce, I agree. We all need to reflect on the redistribution of wealth up to the super rich, loss of hope for millions of workers... starting with Reagan, now with tfg. In what ways did I allow this to happen? I didn't protest loud enough!
Exactly! The Reagan revolution was the beginning of the gaslighting. Greed is Good Government is bad. Etc.
It started waay back when. They got the Iranians to not release the hostages to make Carter look bad so he didn't get re-elected. That information just came out last week. So, the GOP have been "cooking the books" in their favor for decades. I for one am tired of this type of "gamesmanship" which now is well concealed by all the dark $ that's being poured into the process. SCOTUS enabled this with their bad decisions as well.
He has been committing crimes without consequence for many years, sometimes daily. If any of these investigations result in charges and accountability, it’s long overdue. I think a dance party would be appropriate if/when “no one is above the law” becomes reality rather than an out of reach ideal.
Got my “dancing shoes “ out
Letting it be a dance for the rule of law, I think would be appropriate.
Indict him. Then ask the judge for a gag order and shut him up.
I thought the exact same thing. I’ve also been wondering whether Trump’s announcement of his Tuesday arrest was in and of itself an attempt to obstruct justice since there was no basis for the announcement.
It's always Trump's modus operandi, and he's consistent. Trump wanted a mob to gather outside the DA's office, that's obvious. But his real motive was to create the suspicion that there are "leaks" in the DA's office. He was hoping it would eventually result in a dismissal.
It was 100% him who was the "illegal leaker."
Oooooo! Love this! Gag order, indeed! Make it a tight one that he’ll choke on!
Joyce, in the second paragraph, is it a typo that “Cohen is currently Rudy’s attorney? Didn’t Michael lose his license to practice law? Not trying to nit-pick but I guess i am!
I think she meant Costello, not Cohen, as she said in the included tweet.
My first impression when I saw that, “I wanna be a fly on THAT wall during legal discussions!” Must be good fixin’s of ketchup on those walls.
I meant second paragraph below check
I was going to ask as well!
Got my attention too!
“If the system works, we continue to be a country governed by laws, not the whims of men.”
Trump’s whims have been navigating him away from accountability for decades while the system was working..However, I understand your point of view re: a former president, but I’m going to have to borrow a term Steve Schmidt likes to use for Kevin McCarthy to describe Trump, former president “in name only”. While it is a sad that one of our former presidents is about to be indicted, I look at the laundry list of criminal conduct and disgusting behavior and fallout from same including treason, so it could not happen to a more deserving person..
What is a very sad thing, is that it has taken so long with so much damage done to our country..
What I think is sad is that so many fellow Americans fell for him in the first place. When he ridiculed the handicapped reporter and dissed the Gold Star family, he told us everything about his character. And after mountains of evidence people continue to flock to him. That is the real tragedy.
Your observation here is sad and I would add, disturbing..It is a telling reminder of who a large swath of American citizens truly are..These are not critical thinkers able to see the unfitness of Trump and recoil in disgust..They are those who agree with his abhorrent views and behavior to whom he represents..I’ve heard pundits speak to the cult like spell the MAGAs have fallen under and how do they return to the fold..But more and more I’m feeling this is just who they’ve always been.
Marycat2021 has it right, as she points out how they were “revealing their own lack of character and judgment”.
They sound weak, fearful with a low self esteem and self worth..I am sorry, it is truly sad..They seem not to understand the evolving nature of the country..They may be your immediate family members, but you are not obligated to include them in your life..if they are unwilling to discuss this matter..
I have read where someone would remark about a family member something like “Oh they’re a good person they just think Trump is the best thing ever” Well I would offer that this is an incongruous statement..
And the Access Hollywood tape - blehh.
I think the bigger revelation is how voting for Trump was a way of revealing their own lack of character and judgment.
And what does that say about the morality of our citizens? As a nation, we have been very disappointing.
American exceptionalism, my foot!
It says they possess an abundance of shortsightedness and stupidity..These people don't have the ability to think in terms of "What If it were me." To suppose, what if they were the ones being hated and blamed for other people's poor life choices ..Yes, more like exceptional stupidity..
Great ending comments. Thank you. We all need to take a deep breath and absorb what you are suggesting. Let justice be done one step at a time.
Yes and thank you so much, Joyce, for your guiding comments, words of advice from a prosecutor, and suggestions for not permitting Trump to change us and let quintessentially Trumpian factors into our analysis:
"Let’s let our justice system work: slow, imperfect, but still essential to the rule of law. If the system works, we continue to be a country governed by laws, not the whims of men. Let’s not permit Trump to change who we are.”
“I can’t have been the only prosecutor who was cringing to see the case being tried on television before an indictment had even been obtained, instead of waiting for the witnesses to testify in a courtroom. It was quintessentially Trumpian.”
Can’t let Tfg change who we are as a nation then he wins. It is going to take along time to undo what has been done maybe not in my life time (I am 75)with what seems like baby steps toward justice may be but if you add all of them together we may finally reach the goal. That no matter who one is justice will win.
Thank you for your tireless efforts towards Democracy! You ROCK Joyce Vance 🙏🏻
Thank you Joyce for your reporting on these developments. However I am wondering if anyone other than Trump has actually reported that there would likely be indictments coming this week? Or could this be classic Trump spreading a rumor about his victimhood and boosting his fundraising?
He needs money. He’s creating a reason (?) for his supporters to fund him.
ya think?
Thank you Joyce, this was an exceptional piece. I agree, even after all this time (I felt especially sick when Trump floated down the golden escalator and then went on to be elected), it's important to note that this is indeed a somber time. I almost feel like even if Trump is eventually jailed, the long term ramifications of what he and his family have inflicted upon this country is horrific and will have a long term chilling effects. I am sad and exhausted.
Professor Vance, thank you for your usual clear and insightful explanation of the proceedings. I am in agreement that this case is important because it tests our democratic institutions and how well they apply democratically. Most people do not believe that the rich and powerful are held to account, so seeing what happens is very important to our nation even if it is unprecedented. It is following unprecedented actions on Trump's part. Also, I have read today that there has not been much of a presence of people in the streets defending Trump and his cause. There was more press waiting to report on such actions.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/21/maga-protesters-in-manhattan-crowded-out-by-anti-trump-rivals-00088099
It tells me that the 6 Percenters, Proud Boys, Boogaloo Boys, Oath Keepers, Neo Nazis, KKK, and other White Supremacist groups who are clearly not motivated by moral measures, but avoidance of punishment can be a motivator for some to leave these groups, or disengage. As they see the insurrectionists doing time they may not be so eager to break the law for Trump. Going to prison in disgrace is not the stuff of heroes. So we wait since we know that Trump has been successful in appealing until everyone tires or the political landscape changes. Perhaps he is planning to appeal until he dies. I want justice to prevail and I do not want him for president.
I"m not a lawyer so forgive me for my lack of knowledge in asking this question. Can the testimony received by the Manhattan Grand Jury (or any Grand Jury for that matter) be presented/used as evidence by other grand juries as they consider potential indictments?
As a rule, no. Grand jury transcripts are sealed except to the judge and attorneys. They are the property of the DA's office.
Professor, I believe what I appreciate most when I hear or read you is your deeply reflective tone. Admittedly, over the past several days, I have shared the views of most pundits who, unequivocally, have asserted that the Stormy Daniels incident is, by far, not the best case to go out the door first, particularly considering the others are much more central to the crimes against democracy Trump has committed.
In response, you have been the first, and I believe the only commentator, who has analogized the Stormy Daniels incident as “the origin story for Trump’s efforts to manipulate elections in unfair ways.” Were Bragg’s investigation into the hush payments made on Trump’s behalf to lead to the first criminal charge against Trump, I would encourage you to amplify your perspective to help the rest of us view this flagship indictment through your lens.
When I heard Trump was the source for the Tuesday indictment information, I said, nope, not happening. If the city pulled out all the stops for the supposed indictment I feel bad for the people of NY having to foot the bill.
Everyday, still hoping to see/hear about an indictment from somewhere.
I had a hunch tfg was just trying to throw everyone off the track.
This NYC-er thanks you for your kind words. I knew it wasn't going to happen.
Prompt, as usual, with your very relevant legal information. I appreciate it tonight in particular since I was losing the thread on these rapidly occurring events. That is what I get for having my nose in a book instead of my eyes and ears glued to the news I suppose. Thank you!
The book was probably a good idea. Everyone has been talking about this nonstop. It’s too much.