Until the press holds the GOP accountable in their reporting none of them have to abandon ship. Until the press starts questioning the 36 congress members who aided and abetted Jan 6th, and continue to down play it , they will never be held accountable and we stay in this state of limbo in public opinion.
If the press was not complicit the GOP would already have been forced to self correct.
Americans who pay attention and listen to/read mainstream media sources (and this substack) already know, ahtough I agree that this should be covered a lot more. The right wing press, which is the sole source of news for a sizable chunk of the US, will never do this. Part of the problem with public opinion is that around of 1/3 of American adults won’t believe anything said in the mainstream press, or anything coming out of the Jan. 6th Committee, no matter how irrefutable the evidence. They won’t read the report. They believe TFG’s cries of witch hunt, and nothing will change their mind. I do not think it’s an exaggeration when I say that the trumpists are (heavily armed) members of a cult.
Part of the problem is that foreign agents are allowed to own US press as well. Why is Rupert Murdoch, who is an Australian immigrant able to own a television station and several publications in this country? As far as I am concerned he should be investigated too. Why is Elon Musk allowed to own Media like Twitter a USA business. I think that we have two right wing foreigners who are acting as enemy agents to USA democracy. It is an indictment of the USA education system that so many people are such uncritical thinkers that they can be taken by Trump the grifter, that they embrace White Supremacy, and that they are not able to understand what it means to be a citizen in this country. Most of the Trump followers have a lot of nerve being against immigrants who come here and follow the laws, while they are supporting overthrowing the government and constitution. It is clear to me who is less patriotic and belongs less.
Linda, you might want to take a closer look at our economic system and our political system as well. Non-nationals don't have to be "allowed" to own U.S. businesses, media or otherwise. Did you know that most of mainstream U.S. publishing is owned by European-based conglomerates? (There may be restrictions and/or vetting requirements where defense-related industries are concerned -- I don't know.)
Just in general, singling out "right-wing foreigners" as a threat strikes me as just as misguided as singling out migrants from Central and South America: it ignores that the threats to U.S. security and democracy are overwhelmingly native-born and homegrown. That goes for the "dark money" that's bankrolling MAGA, ALEC, et al. It is pretty funny, though, that the right wing is in continual hysterics about George Soros while maintaining silence about Murdoch and Musk.
Susanna, thanks to following Southern Poverty Law Center since the 80s and reading the books of Prof. Kathleen Belew, I understand the home grown threat. However, I still think that loosening the restrictions on how much of a percentage foreign entities can own of a press is a problem that was supposed to allow us access to a greater variety of news, but there are no quality standards. How is Fox News really news when much of what is reported is lies. They should not be allowed to do that. Corporate ownership of the press proves to be a problem. There should be higher standards than they are being held to. I think stations and publications that advocate overthrowing the government should be investigated whether majority foreign or nationally owned.
Well, we could bring back the Fairness Doctrine, which went the way of the dodo during the Reagan administration -- but IMO it would have to be overhauled to accommodate the current media landscape. Last I looked, Fox styled itself an *entertainment* medium -- and who's going to set those "higher standards" that you call for? The government? The First Amendment has something to say about that.
Fwiw, concentrated corporate ownership of *anything* is a huge problem. Witness the supply-chain problems during COVID. Our system has no checks and balances when it comes to economic power, and the rules & regs instituted from the New Deal into the 1970s were gutted by the Reagan administration and what followed.
Finally, given that inflammatory rhetoric and lies are a problem (I agree, they are), we might take a closer look at the role certain churches have played in rallying the anti-democratic forces. The 1/6 insurrection failed, but the current SCOTUS is busily instituting an anti-democratic, pro-business, misogynist agenda, and I daresay Rupert Murdoch and Elon Musk have had very little to do with it.
While SCOTUS, which seems controlled by Opus Dei at this point, and appears to be in the pockets of the White Supremacist pseudo-Christian forces, the voting population in this country seems to be very influenced by various media such as "Fox News." Even as entertainment there should be FCC regulations that says they cannot call themselves "News" if they are not following journalistic standards for fact checking and making sure that what they are saying is in fact true. It is a misnomer and should not be allowed. However, with both Murdoch and Musk being naturalized citizens, something that their media positions would deny people from some closer countries, it is just ironic that they get to claim ownership on American ideas and values, against immigrants when they are immigrants themselves. I support the Fairness Doctrine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/04/fairness-doctrine-wont-solve-our-problems-it-can-foster-needed-debate/
My position is that part of having a democracy is having a population that is educated enough to understand what they are voting for and about. Getting information from good sources is part of that. I doubt this is the case in many instances. Not only are schools failing miserably to teach civics, and media scrutiny, but the media is certainly catering to the lowest common denominator in many instances. I watch the German news fairly regularly, and read a local German paper in Northern Germany. Journalists who report regularly invite politicians on the nightly news to ask them about anything that they are involved in legislatively. It is not a special program like Meet the Press, it is during the regular evening news. That does not mean that all German voters are enlightened, but the evening news reports the news. That has not changed.
You may be underestimating the problems caused by the so-called "mainstream press." Their "both-sidesism" continues to be a problem. Too many journalists, at least at the editorial and management levels, don't seem to get that "objectivity" is neither possible nor desirable.
Not underestimating that at all. It’s a huge problem, I agree, but at least the information can generally be found among mainstream sources. Countered with complete BS from the right, presented as a reasonable other view, but at least there. The right wing media simply doesn’t report it, or does so in a way that tells their viewers that it a left wing conspiracy that should be ignored, or worse, punished.
I listen to mostly left-leaning commentary, for the same reason. But there is commentary and there is news. FOX provides commentary that fits the conservative narrative, which they disguise as news. And simply don’t cover things that don’t fit the narrative (like the clear evidence that TFG is a criminal).
I mostly go for media that tells me stuff I don't know and pushes me to think harder about what I do know. In recent years I've especially sought out legal commentary (like this Substack!) because I'm not a lawyer. Very small doses of Tucker et al. are useful to remind me that these people really are that awful, but beyond that all it does is piss me off.
Back in 2020, I looked forward to Election Day because I naively thought that Trump's electoral defeat would mark the beginning of the end of Trumpism. Based on all that has occurred since then I don't think that a successful prosecution of Trump will end the Republican Party's embrace of Fascism, but I do think it will slow down its spread.
I was thinking this too , Gail, for a long time, but I wonder also now, if I were a republican, I wouldn’t suddenly welcome some sort of punishment on Donald, just to give me enough courage to suddenly dive for more integrity. There’s a little voice of conscience in everyone, and sometimes this comes out in unexpected ways.
trump is good at slithering out of tough spots, but I have high hopes that doesn't happen in this case. If ever there was a crooked SOB who has done this country massive harm, it is this guy. There are others, some of them with massive amounts of dark money who need to be taught some lessons, too, but that is a fish of another color, but maybe one day....great coverage by MSNBC, and you were front and center with a great cast of commentators and contributors, Joyce Vance. As mom used to say when I scored 25 pts, ya done swell. Rest up. You earned it. Again.
Good evening Joyce on a cold winter night. 39 degrees on the West Coast. I draw the line below that. I’m just hoping Jack Smith can make quick sense out of all this. Looks like the issue is not will they charge 45 but when and for what exactly 🧐
One of the most disturbing thing revealed by the Jan 6 Committee was the enemy within. Those elected and appointed officials who were at least as corrupt, if not more so, than those who came to DC + brought weapons to the Capital with the intent of doing bodily harm - up to murder - of the VP and others. Every branch of govt participated in the coup planning, execution and coverup (using Ginni Thomas as connection to SCOTUS). Many of these people are still active and wield power. The threat is not behind us as long as these people are not held to account. Hope the DOJ goes for all of them.
Would you write more on obstruction of Justice. For example, what penalties can be applied if someone chooses not to tell the whole truth? How do you prove they know something they should remember but say they don’t recall? What impact does (repeatedly) taking the fifth have on the truth? How does a Grand Jury compel someone to be honest? People are untruthful all the time with no consequences.
I get what you mean, but I'm not holding my breath for many Republicans to find their shriveled or non-existant consciences or balls. They have made it very clear that they will not. I'm beyond sick and tired of power over everything else. Again, thank you and I hope you get some time to enjoy the holidays!
Excellent synopsis again, Joyce. I hope this gets discussed on your podcast, SistersInLaw. I too am tired of the wait and see. But I fear we have much more of it on the horizon. I’m also tired of the press and their “unprecedented” nonsense. What he DID was unprecedented. Remind people of that. Sometimes, in their attempt to not look partisan, they play the “each side has merit” crap. Not in this instance they don’t! Ugh! Ok, anxiously awaiting your analysis of the executive report from the committee. Thank you for all you do. Enjoy the holidays.
Thank you, Joyce. You have a clear mind and a terrific ability to clearly summarize. I really depend on your posts to help me understand the contours of an issue and focus on what is important. After reading your essays I am better equipped to understand the news amidst all the noise.
Joyce, thanks for this summary and for your helpful comments.
I appreciate your reminder that just because we are able to recognize that someone has done something clearly wrong doesn’t necessarily mean that prosecutors will charge them with a crime. One thing I have learned from listening to your sisters-in-law podcasts is that there are usually a number of parameters that must be met to mount a prosecution that is likely to result in a conviction.
Until the press holds the GOP accountable in their reporting none of them have to abandon ship. Until the press starts questioning the 36 congress members who aided and abetted Jan 6th, and continue to down play it , they will never be held accountable and we stay in this state of limbo in public opinion.
If the press was not complicit the GOP would already have been forced to self correct.
Americans who pay attention and listen to/read mainstream media sources (and this substack) already know, ahtough I agree that this should be covered a lot more. The right wing press, which is the sole source of news for a sizable chunk of the US, will never do this. Part of the problem with public opinion is that around of 1/3 of American adults won’t believe anything said in the mainstream press, or anything coming out of the Jan. 6th Committee, no matter how irrefutable the evidence. They won’t read the report. They believe TFG’s cries of witch hunt, and nothing will change their mind. I do not think it’s an exaggeration when I say that the trumpists are (heavily armed) members of a cult.
Part of the problem is that foreign agents are allowed to own US press as well. Why is Rupert Murdoch, who is an Australian immigrant able to own a television station and several publications in this country? As far as I am concerned he should be investigated too. Why is Elon Musk allowed to own Media like Twitter a USA business. I think that we have two right wing foreigners who are acting as enemy agents to USA democracy. It is an indictment of the USA education system that so many people are such uncritical thinkers that they can be taken by Trump the grifter, that they embrace White Supremacy, and that they are not able to understand what it means to be a citizen in this country. Most of the Trump followers have a lot of nerve being against immigrants who come here and follow the laws, while they are supporting overthrowing the government and constitution. It is clear to me who is less patriotic and belongs less.
Linda, you might want to take a closer look at our economic system and our political system as well. Non-nationals don't have to be "allowed" to own U.S. businesses, media or otherwise. Did you know that most of mainstream U.S. publishing is owned by European-based conglomerates? (There may be restrictions and/or vetting requirements where defense-related industries are concerned -- I don't know.)
Just in general, singling out "right-wing foreigners" as a threat strikes me as just as misguided as singling out migrants from Central and South America: it ignores that the threats to U.S. security and democracy are overwhelmingly native-born and homegrown. That goes for the "dark money" that's bankrolling MAGA, ALEC, et al. It is pretty funny, though, that the right wing is in continual hysterics about George Soros while maintaining silence about Murdoch and Musk.
Don't forget Charles Koch and Peter Thiel, who support right wing "think tanks."
Thiel also bankrolled several election-denying Republican candidates, notably in Arizona.
Susanna, thanks to following Southern Poverty Law Center since the 80s and reading the books of Prof. Kathleen Belew, I understand the home grown threat. However, I still think that loosening the restrictions on how much of a percentage foreign entities can own of a press is a problem that was supposed to allow us access to a greater variety of news, but there are no quality standards. How is Fox News really news when much of what is reported is lies. They should not be allowed to do that. Corporate ownership of the press proves to be a problem. There should be higher standards than they are being held to. I think stations and publications that advocate overthrowing the government should be investigated whether majority foreign or nationally owned.
Well, we could bring back the Fairness Doctrine, which went the way of the dodo during the Reagan administration -- but IMO it would have to be overhauled to accommodate the current media landscape. Last I looked, Fox styled itself an *entertainment* medium -- and who's going to set those "higher standards" that you call for? The government? The First Amendment has something to say about that.
Fwiw, concentrated corporate ownership of *anything* is a huge problem. Witness the supply-chain problems during COVID. Our system has no checks and balances when it comes to economic power, and the rules & regs instituted from the New Deal into the 1970s were gutted by the Reagan administration and what followed.
Finally, given that inflammatory rhetoric and lies are a problem (I agree, they are), we might take a closer look at the role certain churches have played in rallying the anti-democratic forces. The 1/6 insurrection failed, but the current SCOTUS is busily instituting an anti-democratic, pro-business, misogynist agenda, and I daresay Rupert Murdoch and Elon Musk have had very little to do with it.
While SCOTUS, which seems controlled by Opus Dei at this point, and appears to be in the pockets of the White Supremacist pseudo-Christian forces, the voting population in this country seems to be very influenced by various media such as "Fox News." Even as entertainment there should be FCC regulations that says they cannot call themselves "News" if they are not following journalistic standards for fact checking and making sure that what they are saying is in fact true. It is a misnomer and should not be allowed. However, with both Murdoch and Musk being naturalized citizens, something that their media positions would deny people from some closer countries, it is just ironic that they get to claim ownership on American ideas and values, against immigrants when they are immigrants themselves. I support the Fairness Doctrine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/04/fairness-doctrine-wont-solve-our-problems-it-can-foster-needed-debate/
My position is that part of having a democracy is having a population that is educated enough to understand what they are voting for and about. Getting information from good sources is part of that. I doubt this is the case in many instances. Not only are schools failing miserably to teach civics, and media scrutiny, but the media is certainly catering to the lowest common denominator in many instances. I watch the German news fairly regularly, and read a local German paper in Northern Germany. Journalists who report regularly invite politicians on the nightly news to ask them about anything that they are involved in legislatively. It is not a special program like Meet the Press, it is during the regular evening news. That does not mean that all German voters are enlightened, but the evening news reports the news. That has not changed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17301193
https://new-world-encounters.com/blog/2020/07/26/5-charts-to-understand-from-which-sources-of-news-the-germans-get-their-information/
You may be underestimating the problems caused by the so-called "mainstream press." Their "both-sidesism" continues to be a problem. Too many journalists, at least at the editorial and management levels, don't seem to get that "objectivity" is neither possible nor desirable.
Not underestimating that at all. It’s a huge problem, I agree, but at least the information can generally be found among mainstream sources. Countered with complete BS from the right, presented as a reasonable other view, but at least there. The right wing media simply doesn’t report it, or does so in a way that tells their viewers that it a left wing conspiracy that should be ignored, or worse, punished.
I listen to mostly left-leaning commentary, for the same reason. But there is commentary and there is news. FOX provides commentary that fits the conservative narrative, which they disguise as news. And simply don’t cover things that don’t fit the narrative (like the clear evidence that TFG is a criminal).
I mostly go for media that tells me stuff I don't know and pushes me to think harder about what I do know. In recent years I've especially sought out legal commentary (like this Substack!) because I'm not a lawyer. Very small doses of Tucker et al. are useful to remind me that these people really are that awful, but beyond that all it does is piss me off.
Back in 2020, I looked forward to Election Day because I naively thought that Trump's electoral defeat would mark the beginning of the end of Trumpism. Based on all that has occurred since then I don't think that a successful prosecution of Trump will end the Republican Party's embrace of Fascism, but I do think it will slow down its spread.
I was thinking this too , Gail, for a long time, but I wonder also now, if I were a republican, I wouldn’t suddenly welcome some sort of punishment on Donald, just to give me enough courage to suddenly dive for more integrity. There’s a little voice of conscience in everyone, and sometimes this comes out in unexpected ways.
I wouldn’t be too sure about that.
trump is good at slithering out of tough spots, but I have high hopes that doesn't happen in this case. If ever there was a crooked SOB who has done this country massive harm, it is this guy. There are others, some of them with massive amounts of dark money who need to be taught some lessons, too, but that is a fish of another color, but maybe one day....great coverage by MSNBC, and you were front and center with a great cast of commentators and contributors, Joyce Vance. As mom used to say when I scored 25 pts, ya done swell. Rest up. You earned it. Again.
“Slither,” is such a perfect word to use to describe pence. Ha ha.
Good evening Joyce on a cold winter night. 39 degrees on the West Coast. I draw the line below that. I’m just hoping Jack Smith can make quick sense out of all this. Looks like the issue is not will they charge 45 but when and for what exactly 🧐
One of the most disturbing thing revealed by the Jan 6 Committee was the enemy within. Those elected and appointed officials who were at least as corrupt, if not more so, than those who came to DC + brought weapons to the Capital with the intent of doing bodily harm - up to murder - of the VP and others. Every branch of govt participated in the coup planning, execution and coverup (using Ginni Thomas as connection to SCOTUS). Many of these people are still active and wield power. The threat is not behind us as long as these people are not held to account. Hope the DOJ goes for all of them.
Would you write more on obstruction of Justice. For example, what penalties can be applied if someone chooses not to tell the whole truth? How do you prove they know something they should remember but say they don’t recall? What impact does (repeatedly) taking the fifth have on the truth? How does a Grand Jury compel someone to be honest? People are untruthful all the time with no consequences.
I get what you mean, but I'm not holding my breath for many Republicans to find their shriveled or non-existant consciences or balls. They have made it very clear that they will not. I'm beyond sick and tired of power over everything else. Again, thank you and I hope you get some time to enjoy the holidays!
Excellent synopsis again, Joyce. I hope this gets discussed on your podcast, SistersInLaw. I too am tired of the wait and see. But I fear we have much more of it on the horizon. I’m also tired of the press and their “unprecedented” nonsense. What he DID was unprecedented. Remind people of that. Sometimes, in their attempt to not look partisan, they play the “each side has merit” crap. Not in this instance they don’t! Ugh! Ok, anxiously awaiting your analysis of the executive report from the committee. Thank you for all you do. Enjoy the holidays.
Happy xmas week Joyce. Appreciate your summary tonight.
Good read. Thank you. I think my vocabulary needs a new workout, but I'm grateful for your amazing input.
Thank you so much. Happy Hanukkah!
Thank you, Joyce. You have a clear mind and a terrific ability to clearly summarize. I really depend on your posts to help me understand the contours of an issue and focus on what is important. After reading your essays I am better equipped to understand the news amidst all the noise.
Thank you Joyce, so much gratitude as always ! and to these pretty wonderful comments here. I hope you get some rest... and that Cleo is fine !!
Joyce, thanks for this summary and for your helpful comments.
I appreciate your reminder that just because we are able to recognize that someone has done something clearly wrong doesn’t necessarily mean that prosecutors will charge them with a crime. One thing I have learned from listening to your sisters-in-law podcasts is that there are usually a number of parameters that must be met to mount a prosecution that is likely to result in a conviction.
OK Mr. Garland and Mr. Smith, the J6 committee has handed you the ball. Now show us what you’ve got.