There are two legal issues of interest tonight. First, an important decision by the Justice Department in the E. Jean Carroll case—this is the second of her two defamation cases, and it’s set for trial in January. Second, Donald Trump’s lawyers have responded to the government’s request for a December trial date in the Mar-a-Lago prosecution. The work product, helmed by former Florida Solicitor General, now Trump lawyer, Chris Kise, is a level up from what we’ve seen in other recent cases, but it still falls woefully short of the mark. What Judge Aileen Cannon will do about it is an entirely different question.
First, Robert, a retired attorney, reminds his readers that we shouldn't rely on the justice system to correct what requires a political solution: defeating trump and his wannabe's at the polls in 2024.
Second, he notes that we shouldn't lie awake worrying about th timing of the trial because, like in every trial, there are "many variables and contingencies that may legitimately extend the time to trial over which Judge Cannon has no control."
And third, to the point of this discussion, under the heading "Don’t surrender to the fear that Cannon will single-handedly thwart the government’s prosecution," Robert notes that Jack Smith is up to the task of overcoming any bias Judge Cannon throws his way:
"If anyone is up to the challenge, it is the team of prosecutors that Jack Smith has assembled. Judge Cannon can put her thumb on the scales of justice in many ways—some obvious, some devious, some invisible. But this case will make its way to a jury for determination. And if Smith is permitted to present only 50% of his evidence to a jury, he will secure a conviction on at least one of his 37 counts. A conviction on a single count will expose Trump to a decade in prison."
And finally, in the next newsletter by Robert (https://open.substack.com/pub/roberthubbell/p/cannon-redux?r=flasu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web), he explains that Jack Smith knew the risk of filing the case in Judge Cannon's district. Smith has no doubt gamed out the alternatives, such as seeking Judge Cannon's recusal (which he did not do) knowing that the solution might be worst that than her appointment. For example, he writes,
"Four of the available fourteen judges were appointed by Obama. If the case is assigned to a judge appointed by Obama and the jury convicts Trump after the case was taken away from Cannon, the legitimacy of that verdict will be subjected to a new layer of undeserved skepticism. That outcome is not in the public interest and would undermine public trust in the integrity of the verdict."
So, in the end, we should feel confident that Jack Smith knows what he's doing and that he will ultimately achieve a conviction that will reduce trump to the cockroach status that he is.
I think amidst all of this dread, we should remember there are no charges yet on the document display at Bedminster, and there are the fake elector charges, which might separate from inciting the J6 riot, and the Georgia case. And wait, there’s probably more.
We can hope the political remedy becomes inevitable in that Drumpf does not make it to the ballot, and nothing worse and electable on the Republican side does. Then we may have a chance to fix this. Or make a start.
I keep reminding myself of that: "NJ, NJ, NJ". In my mind, the document case is the strongest of all and with the most detailed evidence. So: "NJ, NJ, NJ."
I'm a relatively old citizen, well over 70, survivor, and other similar things, and I do not place my trust in, as the same author says as quoted at the head of this reply, I do not place my trust in any one man.
I understand your logic. However, I thought that there was only a in 3 chance that the trial would go to her, and that there were two other people who could also serve as judges in that district. Am I remembering wrong?
This may be addressed elsewhere in the comments, but I thought I read somewhere that one reason that the case went to Cannon is because the two R Senators from Florida have been blocking President Biden's appointments to that circuit court, so there are many seats vacant, thus a smaller pool to choose from. Can anyone confirm this, or am I off base? I am definitely not a lawyer!
I don’t think they’ve been successful with that. Biden has appointed a very large number of judges and I think I heard there were 3 to choose from. If they were actually vacant seats I thinks we’d have heard. And I honk Mr Smith is several steps ahead of any of these clowns. Not his first rodeo with much better opposing counsel than tRump can find to represent him.
In an article in the NYT, June10, 2023, Journalist Charlie Savage wrote:
"The criminal case against President Donald J. Trump over his hoarding of classified documents was randomly assigned to Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a court official for the Southern District of Florida said on Saturday.
The chief clerk of the federal court system there, Angela E. Noble, also confirmed that Judge Cannon would continue to oversee the case unless she recused herself.
The news of Judge Cannon’s assignment raised eyebrows because of her role in an earlier lawsuit filed by Mr. Trump challenging the F.B.I.’s search of his Florida club and estate, Mar-a-Lago. In issuing a series of rulings favorable to him, Judge Cannon, a Trump appointee, effectively disrupted the investigation until a conservative appeals court ruled she never had legitimate legal authority to intervene.
Under the district court’s procedures, new cases are randomly delegated to a judge who sits in the division where the matter arose or a neighboring one, even if it relates to a previous case. That Judge Cannon is handling Mr. Trump’s criminal indictment elicited the question of how that had come to be.
Asked over email whether normal procedures were followed and Judge Cannon’s assignment was random, Ms. Noble wrote: “Normal procedures were followed.”
Mar-a-Lago is in the West Palm Beach division, between the Fort Lauderdale division and the Fort Pierce division, where Judge Cannon sits. The district court’s website shows that seven active judges have chambers in those three divisions, as do three judges on senior status who still hear cases.
Ms. Noble wrote that certain factors increased the chances that the case would land before Judge Cannon.
For one, she said, senior judges are removed from the case assignment system, or wheel, once they fulfill their target caseload for the year. At least one of the senior judges is done, she wrote, adding that she was highly confident that the other two “are very likely at their target,” too.
In addition, she wrote, one of the seven active judges with chambers in Fort Lauderdale is now a Miami judge for the purpose of assignments. Another is not currently receiving cases.
A third active judge, Donald Middlebrooks, draws 50 percent of his criminal cases from the Miami division, she wrote, decreasing his odds. (Judge Middlebrooks this year ordered Mr. Trump and his lawyers to pay nearly a million dollars in sanctions for having filed a frivolous lawsuit against nearly three dozen of his perceived political enemies, including Hillary Clinton.)
Judge Cannon, Ms. Noble wrote, “draws 50 percent of her cases from West Palm Beach, increasing her odds.”
The clerk clarified another matter: whether Judge Cannon would continue to handle the case. Since news of Judge Cannon’s assignment emerged early Friday, observers have speculated that it could only be an initial assignment before being handed to another judge.
But Ms. Noble confirmed that no court practice would return the case to be assigned to another judge. In short, Judge Cannon’s assignment is permanent unless she were to step aside."
Remember, she’s shown her game, and is butt-nekkid up there on the bench. All the 11th Circuit drama stripped away any vestiges of decorum from her judginess. Serves her damn right.
Thank you, Ms Vance you have given me some relief. I'm still concerned with some of their allegations, such as "the sitting President" bringing charges against his "Main competitor". President Biden isn't making any charges, the Department of Justice is. Just because Trump thought that, as President, he "owned" all the many Federal agencies, does not make this correct. It is my understanding that NO Federal agency is in anyway beholden to the President. Each agency is under control of the Civil Service. The Civil Service was signed into law by U.S. Grant in 1871 and reformed by Teddy Roosevelt starting in 1881. It's original purpose was to end patronage. Yes, there are Cabinet heads to guide the various agencies. As a former Civil Servant myself, we received "guidences" but these were interpreted at the Department level.
Thank you Joyce Vance for again clarifying and explaining the law and how it will specifically apply to TFG, his sidekick and attorneys. “What Judge Aileen Cannon will do about it is an entirely different question.” That is a big concern. We already observed her role in an earlier case and I wonder how TFG got lucky again. His attorneys argue the trials will interfere with his other important plans: running for president, and of course he has other legal battles to fight. His Daddy isn’t here to protect him.
Not to mention, as Lawrence pointed out tonight, Judge Lucy Cannon is reading motions made to support the individual who appointed her to her position.
I say that the Judge should add another 3 zeros to the amount that E. Jean Carroll gets. That should shut his donors up if not Trump himself, since they are all paying the cost. Still he is raking it in from the Evangelical Church-lings. Look at the salaries that some of their leaders make off of them too.
Yes. I feel that 5 billion, or 5 trillion will be much more incentive for his donors to rethink where their money is going. At some point their accountants are going to tell them to get a new leader, at least those wealthy enough to have accountants. They are the real problem after all.
Thanks Joyce for this clear and concise summary of these cases. There will always be two tiers of justice, those who have money to spend on lawyers who will game every ounce of the system and those who don’t. In this case Trump has miked the system unlike any before him and the political ramifications are enormous if he would get re-elected. So our only and best hope is to get out the vote. At this point we have no other alternative or savior.
On Justice Matters today Glenn read some of the filing ( I know not proper wording) in part because he was so busy with other cases coming up and running for president not enough time to prepare.
Tfg is. Not fooling anyone trying to run the clock out. Waiting on pins and needles for Georgia as usual thanks for explaining .
I love you and look forward to this newsletter every day. But this morning...when I scanned my inbox and saw "Two Legal Issues" as a subject line, I broke out into a sweat. OMG. What did I do???!! LOL. Remind me to meditate BEFORE I open my inbox.
I clicked on your name then saw your listed recipes. If Trump is convicted of anything, I will have a party for my friends and will prepare your recipes "Indictment Cookies" and "Cake Time for E. Jean Carroll." Will you promise to create a new one if he actually puts on the orange jump suit and enters prison? Seriously now, are these (and other recipes) published somewhere?
As I was driving home from Nashville to Hartford, Connecticut in August of 2019, a refrain kept running around my head; "There are good people and bad ones wherever you go. Just seems like the bad ones are stealing the show." You need to think of something while driving long distance. I knew I had to write it down or lose it forever so I pulled into a truck stop and parked next to a bunch of 18 wheelers just to write what developed into a song one week later. Please enjoy "Blue Daze" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYtTGIzb7OA
Just googled you, and some your songs have been covered by some of the true greats: Buddy Holly, Debbie Reynolds, The Beatles (!) and Lefty Frizzell (Sorry, I'm from Nashville; couldn't help myself...). Thank you for your contributions to the arts!
If my songs have been covered by those named, that would make me about 125 years old. : )
No, I live in Hartford but I travel with an art collection to convention environments. Thanks for the compliments. Feel free to leave comments on my channel.
Do we know if Trump has paid E. Jean Carroll yet? Is there a deadline by which he must pay? Thank you as always for your clear and calm explanations of the law.
“ . . . they’ll be emboldened to engage in more efforts to delay the case well past the 2024 election, at which point, a Trump victory or disputed result could render the prosecution meaningless.”
This raises my ire every time I hear/read it. If there is equal justice under the law, why does he get a free pass if he wins?? (I know technically why). He committed the crimes, we know he committed the crimes, but he would just skate free?!!? This is wrong; I believe his only motivation for running for the presidency (it sure isn’t so he can better Americans lives or our foreign standings) is to keep his sorry a$$ out of prison.
If one really thinks about it, taking into consideration all that has happened and is happening, there is only one satisfactory solution..In my humble opinion..
Damn! WHY did Karma give that crucial case to a trump-doll??! And WHY does the orange sadist keep getting so lucky??!
I suggest reading or listening to Robert Hubbell's June 11, 2023 newsletter titled "Don't Freak Out About Judge Cannon" (https://open.substack.com/pub/roberthubbell/p/dont-freak-out-about-judge-cannon?r=flasu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web)
First, Robert, a retired attorney, reminds his readers that we shouldn't rely on the justice system to correct what requires a political solution: defeating trump and his wannabe's at the polls in 2024.
Second, he notes that we shouldn't lie awake worrying about th timing of the trial because, like in every trial, there are "many variables and contingencies that may legitimately extend the time to trial over which Judge Cannon has no control."
And third, to the point of this discussion, under the heading "Don’t surrender to the fear that Cannon will single-handedly thwart the government’s prosecution," Robert notes that Jack Smith is up to the task of overcoming any bias Judge Cannon throws his way:
"If anyone is up to the challenge, it is the team of prosecutors that Jack Smith has assembled. Judge Cannon can put her thumb on the scales of justice in many ways—some obvious, some devious, some invisible. But this case will make its way to a jury for determination. And if Smith is permitted to present only 50% of his evidence to a jury, he will secure a conviction on at least one of his 37 counts. A conviction on a single count will expose Trump to a decade in prison."
And finally, in the next newsletter by Robert (https://open.substack.com/pub/roberthubbell/p/cannon-redux?r=flasu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web), he explains that Jack Smith knew the risk of filing the case in Judge Cannon's district. Smith has no doubt gamed out the alternatives, such as seeking Judge Cannon's recusal (which he did not do) knowing that the solution might be worst that than her appointment. For example, he writes,
"Four of the available fourteen judges were appointed by Obama. If the case is assigned to a judge appointed by Obama and the jury convicts Trump after the case was taken away from Cannon, the legitimacy of that verdict will be subjected to a new layer of undeserved skepticism. That outcome is not in the public interest and would undermine public trust in the integrity of the verdict."
So, in the end, we should feel confident that Jack Smith knows what he's doing and that he will ultimately achieve a conviction that will reduce trump to the cockroach status that he is.
Very reassuring information! Thanks.
I think amidst all of this dread, we should remember there are no charges yet on the document display at Bedminster, and there are the fake elector charges, which might separate from inciting the J6 riot, and the Georgia case. And wait, there’s probably more.
We can hope the political remedy becomes inevitable in that Drumpf does not make it to the ballot, and nothing worse and electable on the Republican side does. Then we may have a chance to fix this. Or make a start.
I keep reminding myself of that: "NJ, NJ, NJ". In my mind, the document case is the strongest of all and with the most detailed evidence. So: "NJ, NJ, NJ."
I'm a relatively old citizen, well over 70, survivor, and other similar things, and I do not place my trust in, as the same author says as quoted at the head of this reply, I do not place my trust in any one man.
She got it because she had already dealt with it last year. It's how the selection system operates.
I understand your logic. However, I thought that there was only a in 3 chance that the trial would go to her, and that there were two other people who could also serve as judges in that district. Am I remembering wrong?
I thought it was a random process? Luck of the draw? No?
It is a random process.
Thank you.
not how the system works. It's random, with some provisos like a given judge's calendar is already full, etc.
This may be addressed elsewhere in the comments, but I thought I read somewhere that one reason that the case went to Cannon is because the two R Senators from Florida have been blocking President Biden's appointments to that circuit court, so there are many seats vacant, thus a smaller pool to choose from. Can anyone confirm this, or am I off base? I am definitely not a lawyer!
Good point.
I don’t think they’ve been successful with that. Biden has appointed a very large number of judges and I think I heard there were 3 to choose from. If they were actually vacant seats I thinks we’d have heard. And I honk Mr Smith is several steps ahead of any of these clowns. Not his first rodeo with much better opposing counsel than tRump can find to represent him.
Wow!
In an article in the NYT, June10, 2023, Journalist Charlie Savage wrote:
"The criminal case against President Donald J. Trump over his hoarding of classified documents was randomly assigned to Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a court official for the Southern District of Florida said on Saturday.
The chief clerk of the federal court system there, Angela E. Noble, also confirmed that Judge Cannon would continue to oversee the case unless she recused herself.
The news of Judge Cannon’s assignment raised eyebrows because of her role in an earlier lawsuit filed by Mr. Trump challenging the F.B.I.’s search of his Florida club and estate, Mar-a-Lago. In issuing a series of rulings favorable to him, Judge Cannon, a Trump appointee, effectively disrupted the investigation until a conservative appeals court ruled she never had legitimate legal authority to intervene.
Under the district court’s procedures, new cases are randomly delegated to a judge who sits in the division where the matter arose or a neighboring one, even if it relates to a previous case. That Judge Cannon is handling Mr. Trump’s criminal indictment elicited the question of how that had come to be.
Asked over email whether normal procedures were followed and Judge Cannon’s assignment was random, Ms. Noble wrote: “Normal procedures were followed.”
Mar-a-Lago is in the West Palm Beach division, between the Fort Lauderdale division and the Fort Pierce division, where Judge Cannon sits. The district court’s website shows that seven active judges have chambers in those three divisions, as do three judges on senior status who still hear cases.
Ms. Noble wrote that certain factors increased the chances that the case would land before Judge Cannon.
For one, she said, senior judges are removed from the case assignment system, or wheel, once they fulfill their target caseload for the year. At least one of the senior judges is done, she wrote, adding that she was highly confident that the other two “are very likely at their target,” too.
In addition, she wrote, one of the seven active judges with chambers in Fort Lauderdale is now a Miami judge for the purpose of assignments. Another is not currently receiving cases.
A third active judge, Donald Middlebrooks, draws 50 percent of his criminal cases from the Miami division, she wrote, decreasing his odds. (Judge Middlebrooks this year ordered Mr. Trump and his lawyers to pay nearly a million dollars in sanctions for having filed a frivolous lawsuit against nearly three dozen of his perceived political enemies, including Hillary Clinton.)
Judge Cannon, Ms. Noble wrote, “draws 50 percent of her cases from West Palm Beach, increasing her odds.”
The clerk clarified another matter: whether Judge Cannon would continue to handle the case. Since news of Judge Cannon’s assignment emerged early Friday, observers have speculated that it could only be an initial assignment before being handed to another judge.
But Ms. Noble confirmed that no court practice would return the case to be assigned to another judge. In short, Judge Cannon’s assignment is permanent unless she were to step aside."
Remember, she’s shown her game, and is butt-nekkid up there on the bench. All the 11th Circuit drama stripped away any vestiges of decorum from her judginess. Serves her damn right.
Thank you, Ms Vance you have given me some relief. I'm still concerned with some of their allegations, such as "the sitting President" bringing charges against his "Main competitor". President Biden isn't making any charges, the Department of Justice is. Just because Trump thought that, as President, he "owned" all the many Federal agencies, does not make this correct. It is my understanding that NO Federal agency is in anyway beholden to the President. Each agency is under control of the Civil Service. The Civil Service was signed into law by U.S. Grant in 1871 and reformed by Teddy Roosevelt starting in 1881. It's original purpose was to end patronage. Yes, there are Cabinet heads to guide the various agencies. As a former Civil Servant myself, we received "guidences" but these were interpreted at the Department level.
When Tara Reade accused Joe Biden of sexual assault, he managed to categorically deny her story without insulting or demeaning her. Trump is an idiot.
Dollar amounts are meaningless to a man who has no intention of paying the bill.
Civil penalties cannot stop a man who is above the law.
I think a court could order liens against his property. Meaning that he cannot sell it until its paid.
I like that idea. Not sure about mechanics of that procedure. Joyce might illuminate such an outcome as to legality.
Great idea
Thank you Joyce Vance for again clarifying and explaining the law and how it will specifically apply to TFG, his sidekick and attorneys. “What Judge Aileen Cannon will do about it is an entirely different question.” That is a big concern. We already observed her role in an earlier case and I wonder how TFG got lucky again. His attorneys argue the trials will interfere with his other important plans: running for president, and of course he has other legal battles to fight. His Daddy isn’t here to protect him.
I just love reading your posts in the dead of night.😏
Cannon will be slapped down like the lightweight she is. Unfortunately, much wreckage will be left in the process.
Not to mention, as Lawrence pointed out tonight, Judge Lucy Cannon is reading motions made to support the individual who appointed her to her position.
Watch it here. He points out several problems with TFG's motion.
https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-trump-lawyers-just-told-a-trumpian-lie-to-espionage-case-judge-187638341627
I say that the Judge should add another 3 zeros to the amount that E. Jean Carroll gets. That should shut his donors up if not Trump himself, since they are all paying the cost. Still he is raking it in from the Evangelical Church-lings. Look at the salaries that some of their leaders make off of them too.
https://kiiky.com/wealth/highest-paid-preachers/
https://moneyinc.com/richest-pastors-in-the-world/
https://www.heraldweekly.com/meet-the-wealthiest-religious-leaders-in-the-world/21?xcmg=1
These are also people living high off the hog off of other people's money.
Another 3 zeroes to the left of the decimal point 😉
Yes. I feel that 5 billion, or 5 trillion will be much more incentive for his donors to rethink where their money is going. At some point their accountants are going to tell them to get a new leader, at least those wealthy enough to have accountants. They are the real problem after all.
Thanks Joyce for this clear and concise summary of these cases. There will always be two tiers of justice, those who have money to spend on lawyers who will game every ounce of the system and those who don’t. In this case Trump has miked the system unlike any before him and the political ramifications are enormous if he would get re-elected. So our only and best hope is to get out the vote. At this point we have no other alternative or savior.
🇺🇸🗽🗳️
On Justice Matters today Glenn read some of the filing ( I know not proper wording) in part because he was so busy with other cases coming up and running for president not enough time to prepare.
Tfg is. Not fooling anyone trying to run the clock out. Waiting on pins and needles for Georgia as usual thanks for explaining .
I love you and look forward to this newsletter every day. But this morning...when I scanned my inbox and saw "Two Legal Issues" as a subject line, I broke out into a sweat. OMG. What did I do???!! LOL. Remind me to meditate BEFORE I open my inbox.
I clicked on your name then saw your listed recipes. If Trump is convicted of anything, I will have a party for my friends and will prepare your recipes "Indictment Cookies" and "Cake Time for E. Jean Carroll." Will you promise to create a new one if he actually puts on the orange jump suit and enters prison? Seriously now, are these (and other recipes) published somewhere?
Indictment cookies are the absolute best ever!!!!!!
Orange jumpsuit = carrot cake
As I was driving home from Nashville to Hartford, Connecticut in August of 2019, a refrain kept running around my head; "There are good people and bad ones wherever you go. Just seems like the bad ones are stealing the show." You need to think of something while driving long distance. I knew I had to write it down or lose it forever so I pulled into a truck stop and parked next to a bunch of 18 wheelers just to write what developed into a song one week later. Please enjoy "Blue Daze" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYtTGIzb7OA
Just googled you, and some your songs have been covered by some of the true greats: Buddy Holly, Debbie Reynolds, The Beatles (!) and Lefty Frizzell (Sorry, I'm from Nashville; couldn't help myself...). Thank you for your contributions to the arts!
: )
Do you live in Nashville now? If so, do you perform anywhere? If so, my wife and I will drop by to hear you.
If my songs have been covered by those named, that would make me about 125 years old. : )
No, I live in Hartford but I travel with an art collection to convention environments. Thanks for the compliments. Feel free to leave comments on my channel.
Do we know if Trump has paid E. Jean Carroll yet? Is there a deadline by which he must pay? Thank you as always for your clear and calm explanations of the law.
Trump put $5.5 million into the custody of the court as required in order to appeal the existing ruling against him in E.Jean Carroll’s case.
Thank you!
Wow. That’s money lost.
Trump (of course) appealed the ruling.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-sets-aside-money-while-he-appeals-e-jean-carrolls-5-million-verdict-2023-06-23/
There should be
From today’s Substack:
“ . . . they’ll be emboldened to engage in more efforts to delay the case well past the 2024 election, at which point, a Trump victory or disputed result could render the prosecution meaningless.”
This raises my ire every time I hear/read it. If there is equal justice under the law, why does he get a free pass if he wins?? (I know technically why). He committed the crimes, we know he committed the crimes, but he would just skate free?!!? This is wrong; I believe his only motivation for running for the presidency (it sure isn’t so he can better Americans lives or our foreign standings) is to keep his sorry a$$ out of prison.
If one really thinks about it, taking into consideration all that has happened and is happening, there is only one satisfactory solution..In my humble opinion..
I thought Judge Cannon was supposed to recuse herself in the first place, since it’s a case involving the person who gave her her job.