Joyce: Thank you for your courage in continuing to speak out and inform. I do not use the word “courage” lightly because the threat is real and you bravely continue to fight for our country.

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Time to put it on the backs of the RNC. I hope everyone will be in touch with Ronna & her cabal & ssk if they support Trump's stated plans if not what are they going to do about it??

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25 years ago if you told me DJT would become president I would have laughed and maybe thought u were crazy or just really dumb. Today I’m dumbstruck scared for democracy. I also feel like I’m ready to pass 1st year law school classes from reading Joyce Vance’s daily Substack!

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Thank you, I don't understand how 5 US Code 7311 isn't enforced, it would seem to apply as he's crossed the threshold for advocating the overthrow of our Constitutional form of government at least two times now.


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Trump didn’t hear when his advisors told him he lost

He said he won the election no matter what the cost

Lied cajoled & cheated as his lawyers manned the phones ( they’ll be disbarred)

Soon he’ll have something in common with Mr Al


His followers cannot bear to see the light

They claim he won when we know that’ ain’t right

It is comical but sad to hear their crazy talk

That they believe this grifter with whatever lies he hawks

Trump forewarns us what he plans to do

And with democracy and separation of powers

He has big plans to screw

But we will vote again until he’s out of sight

And Trump will lose again we’ve just begun to fight!!!

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A stupendous irony rarely mentioned is that if the alt-right gets the authoritarian government they want, it will within three years take away their precious guns. With all the "vermin" in camps, the new Freedom Republic of America will declare no further need of an armed citizenry. Those who object will join the vermin.

What these idiots don't realize is that it's the *liberals* who are safeguarding such rights.

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I am frightened.

It’s not Trump himself who frightens me, although he can certainly whip a crowd into a frenzy of murderous and mindless destruction.

Rather, I am concerned there is another person who is much more intelligent, more disciplined, and more capable of directing the masses toward toward the annihilation of our democracy. Consider that there is new Hitler somewhere in our midst. If someone as talentless and dumb as Trump can cause this much damage, think of the destruction someone with brains and evil intent could do.

Be wary. Consider how we as a society can prevent this from happening.

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Multiple your “deeply troubled” feelings times 10, and that’s where you’ll find me. I’m over here in the Terrified Aisle at the grocery store.

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Jen Psaki was dynamite. The issues we face are clear. We must do all we can to dissuade any and all people we know the danger of backing a third party or independent candidate. Forwarding Joyce's, Rick Wilson's TCinLA, Robert Hubble and Heather's Substacks to all we know who my be unconcerned, wobbling or ignorant must be done also.

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It's true that a certain percentage of this country are going to be "Always Trumpers" despite any facts that come to light pertaining to his plans, his behavior, his culpability, or his open disdain of all the "American" values he professes to embrace. If he were to die of natural causes tomorrow, they would blame someone, find a plot, and turn him into a martyr. At this point, I consider it the duty of every eligible voter who dislikes Trump to vote against him should he become the nominee, and to vote against every would-be mini Trump who espouses the same poisonous and dangerous rhetoric and policies. I too am exhausted by the spite, vindictiveness, petty jealousy, insatiable need for attention, proud ignorance, and boasting of the man who wants to destroy everything that doesn't reflect a flattering portrait of himself.

But I tell myself that all it (should)! take to defeat him is to remember that the 30% of "Trump voters" don't reflect the desires of the majority, and that if the majority rejects Trumpism and turns out to vote against him, we just might start on the road to better times.

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That was a tough one to read and even rougher to write. I have been very worried of late about this wind of hate that is brewing in the country. It is even more distressing when one knows they are in with the "vermin", You certainly are, as am I. We have got to get involved in our democracy to end this threat with the vote. If it is contested it will mean blood in the streets, which is what the Nationalist militias want. The far right is on the wrong side of history, but they are so militant about being right. Time to sleep but not restfully...

Stay strong. We're in this together.


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I ask those who want to continue trying Trump and attempting to beat him in next year’s election, what do you propose doing if he wins, whether or not he’s convicted of any of the crimes he’s been charged with? Given your current stance, the only logical answer is to cry “wait until 2028”. There may be no 2028 election, and meanwhile with another 4 years and Trump’s stated goals for a second term, life will be miserable for millions. Is there ever a point when a democracy must extra judicially lock up a dangerous, a deranged individual precisely because that individual is a threat to democracy itself? It feels really weird to be taking this position, but I’m at a loss to come up with another solution, especially with the ghosts of unchecked Hitlers and Mussolinis haunting my nightmares.

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Joyce -We have concerns about what possibly could happen to individuals like you and your colleagues (both public and private) who speak the truth if Trump were to be elected president.

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As I read what you've said,I have seen the same things mentioned in several other sites I read from.I keep thinking the same question,how the hell is this legal,to openly plot the bringing down of the US government,and to allow this to apparently come to an eventual fruition?Somewhere earlier I read we are Sleepwalking toward Fascism.It certainly appears so.

Sometimes I am reminded of a scene in Terminator 2,when Sarah Connor dreamed she was at a fence around a park,screaming at people to run,and she was not heard,and then the bombs drop.Some days I swear I feel like we're collectively at that fence,screaming the danger to unhearing,unseeing and uncaring people,living in their bubble,and we know those bombs are right now coming.So how do we get through to them?And can we hope to stop those bombs(i.e.tfg and his henchmen)from destroying everything we have now?Voting is a very good start,for sure,but how do we make sure this cannot come back again to haunt us and here we are again,without the rules we need to outlaw this idea of overthrowing our government,yet again,and the next person/people succeed and it is even worse than it could be now?Should there not be clear guidelines put into law to keep these kinds of people away from any facet of our government?The laws that were put into place after the Civil War,are so vague as to be basically useless.We need stronger,more specific guidelines that get the job done quickly.And they are needed post haste.

The things I'm reading are frightening,and could become terrifying reality.We should all be concerned,and find ways to head this off,before it's too late to be able to do anything.The people plotting this are absolutely going to make sure of it.

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My comment on a televised Trump trial: OJ Simpson. Don’t do it!

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Joyce, I respect you and your opinions strongly. I do agree though with your friend who feels they can't go through another round of Trump presidential talk and depressing rants and tantrums. Yes, I will vote for the good of our nation but I am taking myself out of the continuing awful Trump news. I know what he stands for and I don't need to be exposed to more. Hiding works for me also. Just wish I had a few chickens with me!

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