In the Manhattan district attorney’s case, the only one of the four criminal prosecutions brought against Trump to make it to trial and ending in a conviction, there was news today.
I’m just going to say it. Trump is a cancer in the American system of law, order and jurisprudence. To the extent that this cancer metastasizes to choke off the life of our constitutional republic in total….the jury’s still out. I, for one, will resist the rot at every turn. Thank you, Joyce, for all your hard and very necessary work to keep the truth on all these issues in the forefront.
Right. Couchfuck McGee has none of the contacts (and blackmail) that Trump does, and despite being Thiel’s protogé, Couchfuck is a bumbling moron. No doubt the gov’t depts and processes will be a fucking mess, but his incompetence will likely save us.
Actually, I think you will enjoy this piece from Prof. Timothy Snyder where he compares the incoming White House to a sitcom from the 1960s, which he called Oligarchs' Island. With it he is pointing to the need for humor in these dark times.
You will find an interesting roll for JDV and for his wife, the one we know coached him for the debate, and seems to be ruling the roost from the position of the subservient wife to a Christian Nationalist.
OMG its been... 46 years since I saw this film. We may have walked out LOL but I can't remember any of it since I was probably stoned out of my mind that night (I was still doing pot at that time LOL). Great opening though! And just for the record, I'm Jewish but was thrilled to see the absolutely inimitable Sherwood Schwartz as director! And his two brothers co-wrote the script with him too LOL! PERFECTION! (And I love Bob Denver, always have ever since he was on Dobie Gillis!).
I agree wholeheartedly! And we haven't heard much from Couchfuck since the election. Mrs Trumpmusk sure has been visible though. I think he's going to be the shadow president.
What a clever essay by this brilliant man. Mrs Vance is a mystery to me. Like Mary Ann's, her modesty becomes her well. Even as a kid in the target audience of the original show, I did not much care for "Gilligan's Island"; the sequel will be even less appealing.
And, they have the maturity of someone in Junior High School. It is a horrible combination to run the country, but while things may not remain smooth between the two, they are each other's useful idiots.
Trump and Musk? Then there's JDV who'll invoke the constitution to declare Trump to be insane so he can take over. I accidentally heard a reading of Padre Pio the other day. And I'm preparing to stay in the house with the windows covered.
In the Oligarchs' Island, by Prof. Timothy Snyder, Melania is conflated with Trump, and Putins' display of her nude photos on Russian television is discussed as humiliating Trump. Here is a link to that piece.
In fact, the image I have of the relationships Prof. Snyder talks about is from the album cover of My Fair Lady that shows Shaw manipulating Prof Higgins, who is manipulating 'Liza as puppets. Only trade out Shaw for Xi Jin Ping, and Prof. Doolittle for Putin. And 'Liza for Trump.
Jay Kuo discussed that there is a chance the House might be democratic in which case Hakeen Jeffries would be 3rd in line. In that case, we need to wish that DT and JDV have unfortunate ill health.
TC, so must Putin, whose designs mark the entire fiasco and who may destroy another nation as a result of democracy's demise. Both are unmitigated madmen.
Yes. But interestingly, the foreign policy people Trump has appointed are not Ukraine sellouts. In fact the guy who will be NSA believes Ukraine should get long range weapons and use them.
That really IS interesting. I have a Ukrainian friend, who is currently in the US for a number of years, who will be very interested, and probably very relieved to hear this. Thanks!
No. When he dies the most terrible things will start happening because an inexperienced, changeable zealot, controlled by a very wealthy zealot will be crowned US President.
At least Hillibilly hasn't been indicted for nor convicted of felonious conduct, so there's that. tRump? He's been getting away with everything short of murder since his 20s, and at nearly 79, he's home-free. Yes, only death will ever rid us of this abominable creature.
Don't believe that it will be tfg who governs in fact, or that when he dies it will become that both-sides-of-his-mouth VD, ... er, JD.
The pre-compromised puppet administration that the project 2025 coup-crew puts in place is our next façade government (but hard to tell if it is in fact the Federalist Society, or Putin, or a consortium of oligarchs), regardless of when tfg bites the dust.
We need to observe what makes what move to know who's who going forward, and not be misled by façade.
Wow, this thread was heading down a deep, fruitless rabbit hole even before the troll weighed in. I can never figure out why that happens in spite of Joyce’s fact-based, legally astute, inspiring writing.
Yes,I am with you.He is a cancer on America’s soul.I never pray for anyone’s death but I make an exception every day.He is the head of the poisonous snake that is strangling our democracy and the head of that snake needs to come off.
When my Ma was alive (obviously) we would talk on the phone every day. Invariably, she would start off a conversation with, 'Guess who died?' Kinda how I feel. I turn on my computer every morning, hoping to see the news flash across my screen, but nah. Disappointed every day.
My mom did the same thing! And every morning in my morning meditation I pray for removal of the poison that has Infiltrated and trying to destroy our country
Yes and yes! With respect to the delays of any of it. Allowed, tolerated, permitted, acceptable, conceded, consented, how many other ways are there to say it? For those who have the juice, our rule of law has become a laughing stock joke to be sure. Referring to the documents case, I recall hearing about someone in another country asking Michael Popok of Legal AF something to the effect of: So, you take one of the most important criminal cases in United States history and give it to the most biased incompetent and inexperienced Judge instead of a seasoned judge who has years of experience and integrity? Is that how it works.? His answer was yes. A spin of the wheel. What a stupendous failure of judicial common sense.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Merrick Garland should have, could have appointed a special council long before he finally got around to it. If he had it's quite possible the orange man would be in jail by now. This is where, I believe, the blame should rest. On the shoulders of Merrick Garland.
Garland has an excellent record as a prosecutor & a judge. I honestly believe if he didn't pursue this he must have seen strong evidence DOJ might win the initial round but it would lose EVENTUALLY on appeal. That long drawn out process could be very harmful to our country & all of government. Leaders are called upon to make the hard decisions. Remember, this is not an extended episode of L&O. In real life these things can take years with all the legal maneuvering. As much as I want to see Trump out of our lives I honestly believe, in the long run this would all have disappeared.
Millions of $ would have been spent to what end if it was even 50/50 whether or not he would be guilty & jailed.
I'm not an attorney...But I do watch a lot of legal TV! 😎😎😎
Something is wrong with our system if “years of legal maneuvering” is a successful strategy for criminals to elude accountability. I presume it’s only available to rich criminals.
I tend to agree with you. We are in good company form former Representative Ken Buck (R-CO), a member of the Freedom Caucus before that group booted him just before he left Congress early over breaking with bullies' pursuit of President Biden.
President Trump is nothing, if not predictable. So, Attorney General Garland knew that Mr Macho Mouth would be belly-aching about witch hunts, etc. So, A.G. Garland likely wanted a really tight case that could stand appeal and not have to s(h)ituation play into President Trump's hands with his 'base' base.
When trying to prosecute a powerful criminal with resources, that investigation would be drawn out. I would not count out a concern, after 06jan21, that the possibility of a civil conflict might have deterred all but the most brazen and transparent cases from proceeding.
At least we have you here on the side of democracy and the rule of law. It is so so hard not to despair when after all the judicial proceedings of the past few years, now tffg is allowed to walk away from any consequences and take over the country with his followers.
My astrologer Dianne Lawson after correctly predicting every presidential election since Clinton predicted Kamala’s win. After studying their astrological charts she found it incredible of the amount of luck present in trump’s chart but found Kamala to be a rising star. She was correct on both but made the wrong call. Trump made a deal with the devil that we’ll never understand….
But it means zero. The other side firstly: don't care; secondly: are actually revelling in such feelings from yourselves. I honestly don't believe these maga 'patriots' have a single F clue what they have enabled, and by the time the penny drops it will be way too late).
While I am typing this my Guardian newsfeed has just pinged to my phone that Musk and Ramaswamy have been picked to lead the 'Department of Government Efficiency' … (a misnomer if ever i've seen one) … so the internal rot has intensified and is working its way to the surface.
You all know now that the 'mad' ravings of trump are going to come true. His narcissism and desire for retribution for being called to justice for his lifetime of grifting, lying, cheating, raping et cetera, is going to play out on full display to the world. Payback is a bitch and he's paying back. If the voting system is left intact you might be able to vote him out, but I imagine that won't be left to chance either, and voting will become more difficult … or suspended about the time two-term-limits are removed.
I hope that you all have the strength to withstand the brazen assault on your country from forces within (in their gross critical thinking incompetence and ignorance), and from outside in THEIR desire to destroy America. In MY bones I don't think the anti-western forces at play will want America to stop its implosion so you can expect Russia et al to support the trump regime … at first.
I think it sounds more like a Harry Potter concoction. If only these dirty soulless grifters could be resisted. Let’s find a way to do that using the structure of “the rule of law” as they will be busy burying it.
Yes, I agree that the MAGA folks are completely clueless about the damage to their own lives, and the lives of all other American citizens, except for the top .01% who are so fucking rich that they don't care about anyone else or anything else except their $$$$$$$$.
Not odd at all. Intentional. Also quite juvenile, but that's not surprising where the FELON and ELON are concerned.
From the Guardian earlier today:
"The acronym of the new department – DOGE – coincides with the name of the cryptocurrency Dogecoin that Musk promotes, and the internet meme after which the cryptocurrency is named."
!! And so it begins!! The rich get richer and Donnie might get away with his crimes. This sounds hopeful to me—
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. U.S. Const. art. II, § 4. Supreme Court included??
We have to acknowledge that we are not a country of the rule of law where no man is above the law. The rule of law is now something we aspire to but we have to work to make it happen. And we can’t be naive and pretend it still exists.
With respect, it still exists. Just ask anyone undergoing any criminal prosecution who is not Trump. Our wonderful rule of law, and government are both badly injured, but 185 million U.S. adults did not vote to strike these devastating blows to our body politic. Our collective task therefore, is to not despair, but instead fight the lies, and make sure that those who sat out the election understand what’s at stake in 2 & 4 years.
I just hope that we will actually have elections in 2 and 4 years, and that they won't be the farces that Putin allows in Russia. I believe that's the turd's goal: to end all elections and be president for life, just like all his autocratic pals.
Joyce the rule of law died with jack smith caving and the New York da caving today. If these would not fight and disregard that it makes no difference that trump I pres elect or about to be president.
This left no where to go. I am out of ideas and caring. I am 83. I have enough $ to weather what ever comes first the rest of my life. So I am thinking of going completely dark after I turn all my investments into $!
What’s missing are connections, and effective communication beyond our limited, frothing bubbles. (We dance on Zuchy’s algorithms and all too often pass each other like ships in the night.) U.S. fascists have been working on their little project for at least 45 years. They won - with Putin’s cynical, diabolical assistance … they won by convincing us not to trust each other; they convinced us to forget that we all basically want all the same things, and that by learning - and it’s hard, by learning to work together. What’s the work? Learning to effectively communicate, and spread the word that we, the 99% have much in common; that we’re all blowing it by ignoring each other, and fighting each other for the crumbs laughingly swept from the big boys’ table.
So there could be elections, but, we’re going to have to find ways to awaken the slumbering, punch drunk multitudes (185 million didn’t vote for this), and we’re going to have to do it without tv, radio, newspapers, social media, etc. You know, the cash cow media that we have no access to.
Start - start by finding out what’s important to your …¿?
Please don't bet the farm on this hope you have. I think the first thing to go will be the election infrastructure. These guys plan on staying in power for the duration, and once the election system is disrupted they may very well succeed.
And why would we not, “bet the farm” (with hope)? WTF do we have to lose? We’re pretty much at, “go for broke” as the U.S. Japanese servicemen would say …
I totally agree with you J. Gunnar. We should not despair but help people understand what's at stake. Listen to them and work to find common ground so they will be receptive to your message.
I did my best to help people understand in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. Now I've lost both family and friends and there's no one left to "help."
So sorry Betsy. I understand, my brother's best friend for may years will no longer speak to him, respond to texts, emails the phone, or door knocks. I would guess there are still people who would be willing to help. Just look at the responses of many people in these comments. Maybe find an Indivisible group.
They are out there. I wish you success in your search.
I think many of and others tried to do this for the last 9 month when Project 2025 leaked. Tons of info about it for anyone interested. Chose to actively ignore the drama and extremism. Women bleeding out in hospital parking lots. Musk claiming he can cutb the federal budget by at least a third and Trump promising a position. RFK Jr running science/ medicine: what could go wrong? We tried it all: easily digestible and accessible info on YouTube, in pubs like Rolling Stone and Mother Jones. Nonpartisan meetings and chats with colleagues and neighbors. Convos with friends and family. With my golden retriever (he got it). No one believes it can happen to them..until it does. And it’s coming. Trump just named Musk Co-Head of Efficiency. Is Clarence Thomas going to save your Medicare?
No one really wants to talk or listen. I don’t envy Judge Merchan, but he has acted with integrity throughout so far. I really do think that the convicted felon has proven that money buys justice. Not one of us common folk would ever see this kid glove treatment if we were tried and convicted of these crimes. No one would come to our defense and say “oh never mind!” And magically all would disappear. The other travesties are the classified documents case and his desire to pardon all the J6 participants. It is all so disgusting and has broken my soul. Completely and forever broken.
I totally agree with Ms. Vance and her stretch for hope, but it is a goal that has little chance because we have nothing but MAGA turncoats in Congress.
With respect back Gunnar. The rule of law has been non-existent for a long long time for too many of us, and it has simply shifted to an even worse state. Ask any minority, anyone fighting rich people, people broken by healthcare charges, Women being held from leadership in corporations, Union leaders/ Members, black criminals faced with impossible re-entry obstacles, wars in far away lands, First Nations people on reservations, Youngsters fighting continued pollution killing us all, etc. WHAT RULE OF LAW?
The rule of law: “With respect, it still exists. ”
Perhaps but only for the wealthiest among us have the financial means to fight their criminal cases/ prosecutions and avoid accountability. Justice doesn’t exist for the poor and perhaps never has…..
Yes. And Trump is just the stooge here. A criminal for sure. Vance, project 2025, Thiel, and Musk plus the atrocious names he is proposing for key posts will destroy more than the rule of law. I fear that as a country that we are so passive or complacent or in denial that we will not even protest
In my opinion - when (not if) the Repub powers - whoever is handling Vance - decides the time has come for the orange fool to step down - that cult/base whatever will likely raise hell. This bunch has created this cult - making changes might not be all that simple. Whether thats good or bad for the rest of us I dont know.
I wonder, though, who will get custody, in advance of that "step down time", of the nuclear codes. It keeps coming down to who's going to stop trump from doing whatever he wants. He'll never want to give up power, no matter how demented and addled he gets.
Could be - on the other hand - they really worship trump. Doesnt feel quite the same regarding Vance - especially if he has a hand in trump being set aside. I think it will happen - how it turns out - we will see.
I'm not so sure you will be right in this, Maggie. That said, my prognostication skills are sorely tested in these time. For discussion sake though, consider that bft's position among the Fascists is the "bringer of End-times". I have broken bread and other things with the The CHINO Fascists (Christian In Name Only). They are looking to be raptured, and The Farce of Nature is the only one "anointed by God" (sorry dear girl) to usher in the End as they see it. And they will never consider anyone else.
I think what we're experiencing is one of the terrible trials any democracy has to endure in its lifetime, as a host of uninformed and uninterested citizens vote to remove what has always protected them. We've let it go and forgotten that any decent government takes a LOT of work from its citizens to keep it functioning. We may or may not be able to recover a decent government, given how determined the orange turd is to rule the world--indeed, to rule the solar system!! To rule the galaxy!! To rule the universe and fuck everyone in it and garner all the gold in the universe for his personal collection!!
Trump and followers' plans make me think about how Germany was in the 1930's. The German people didn't overthrow Hitler. He and his followers weren't voted out in the next election cycle. He held all the power. It took other countries' soldiers to liberate them. For right now, trump has complete control of all three branches of government. We don't know how much damage he'll be able to accomplish in two years, the time of the '26 midterms, nor if we're even going to have midterms, or any more elections for a while. I really doubt that he and his followers are planning on him leaving in a mere four years, knowing the broad, drastic changes they've bragged about and planned to make. So, I wonder where is a case study of a democratic country that fell to autocratic or non-democratic rule and regained its democracy with its own citizenry driving that change? Is this Poland in the 1980's? Other countries? How did they accomplish that change? So that's a good place for us to start to educate ourselves about how we can re-win then keep democracy in place.
Unfortunately, most of the countries which were able to rid themselves of Dictators did that through the Military, which caused follow-on problems. I asked my AI the same question a while back:
Historically, people have employed various methods to prevent dictators from assuming and maintaining control. Here are some key approaches with examples:
Nonviolent Resistance
Nonviolent resistance has been one of the most effective methods for challenging dictatorships. This approach focuses on undermining the dictator's power through civil disobedience, strikes, and other peaceful actions.
Examples:
In Serbia, the Otpor! student movement used creative, nonviolent tactics to help overthrow Slobodan Milosevic in 20001.
The People Power Revolution in the Philippines in 1986 used mass demonstrations and civil disobedience to oust Ferdinand Marcos1.
Economic Pressure
Economic actions can significantly weaken a dictator's grip on power by disrupting the financial support that sustains the regime.
Examples:
Boycotts and strikes, such as the merchants' "general strike" or withdrawal of bank deposits, can put pressure on the regime1.
International trade embargoes, like those imposed on apartheid-era South Africa, can isolate dictatorial regimes1.
Information Dissemination
Spreading accurate information and countering propaganda is crucial in challenging dictatorships.
Examples:
In Iran, citizens used social media to share information and organize protests during the 2009 Green Movement4.
Samizdat (self-published, clandestine literature) played a role in challenging Soviet control in Eastern Europe during the Cold War.
Building Alternative Institutions
Creating parallel social and political structures can undermine the dictator's authority and provide alternatives for citizens.
Examples:
The Solidarity movement in Poland established independent trade unions and other civil society organizations, eventually leading to the fall of the communist regime1.
In some Latin American countries, community organizations have provided services and governance structures outside of corrupt or authoritarian state control.
International Pressure
External pressure from other countries or international organizations can help weaken dictatorial regimes.
Examples:
International sanctions and diplomatic isolation contributed to the end of apartheid in South Africa.
The Helsinki Accords of 1975 provided a framework for human rights advocacy that helped erode Soviet control in Eastern Europe.
Education and Civic Engagement
Fostering an informed and engaged citizenry can prevent dictatorships from taking root.
Examples:
In many established democracies, civic education programs aim to create a responsible electorate that can resist authoritarian tendencies5.
Grassroots organizations in various countries work to educate citizens about their rights and democratic processes.
By employing these methods, often in combination, people have successfully challenged and overthrown dictatorial regimes throughout history. However, it's important to note that the process is often long and complex, requiring sustained effort and strategic planning.
Remember the quote: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."? I think it's backwards. Corruption yeilds power. Abolute corruption yields absolute power. Corrupt the rule of law yields absolute power quicker. And here we are. A democracy until January 20th. Enjoy your memory of it.
Just say it! Judiciary works to protect the rich and powerful. Democracy is dead without a working judicial system. A nation of lawyers making laws is a nation of the rich lawyers protecting the rich.
I disagree. The jerk can’t seem to do the right thing. When push came to shove he was afraid of pushback. He has no spine, no integrity. A lot of hot air. Thank god he wasn’t put on SCOTUS. Our luck he’d vote with the 6 asshats.
I tend to agree with you, Vicki. That said, I have to admit, that I just don't know what pressures, threats and opposition Garland was facing. Fact is he has blown it.
Judges get pretty much unlimited time to think, peruse old laws, turn over ideas, workable or not, then pass judgement without regard to consequences. If they so desire, they can dabble in philosophy, cloak stupid ideas in two-bit words, and nothing changes. For them. Thinking is not action. Biden hired a philosopher to clean up a cess pool. The end result now smells to high heaven.
Thanks for your response. It's one of a few things that made me laugh out loud today. Mitch McConnell and Merrick Garland, brothers. It'd be neat to have statues of them and trump, and a few others, in a park owned by an individual that makes money to run it by selling various things that you can throw at their statues? Great idea.
I thought that was true a year in when he didn't move forward, but I no longer think that. I think his allegiance is to the Federalist Society, period.
So soon you forget Bill Barr! I haven't witnessed Merrick Garland lying outright to us. Bill Barr sure did. Of course when it was very late Barr finally got a wee bit of backbone.
That wasn't "backbone", Dirk. That was self-interest. Look how noble I am. Bet that shows up in his biography 200 years from now. The noble AG unwilling to accept the January 6th coup attempt that failed. Be interesting to speculate how much of that "backbone" would have survived if Trump had been successful.
There were actually lawyers who opposed Hitler. They were killed. There were lawyers who opposed Putin. They're dead also. Trump is out for blood, and the GOP is going to help him.
I agree, this is exactly what he and his acolytes have been saying for many months. What an odd and unpleasant thing to try and attract voters with. And yet he did.
OK, Rita, you can sit there and glory in your despair and negativity. Please--go ahead and grovel to the turd. Nothing I say will be of any value whatsoever to you because you are determined to show me that you are stronger and more negative than I could ever be. Maybe so--but it's not worth my time to respond to your comments. Just leave it alone, huh???????
I'm stating facts. If we're going to succeed against Trump, we have to be clear headed about it. You commented earlier you hoped we would have elections in four years. Me, too. It would be a cold day in Hell before I ever groveled to Trump. I'm not trying to be stronger or more negative. I'm trying to be realistic in what we can actually do.
Thank you, Sandra. I know how hard I fought for Kamala. I know how hard I tried to open people's minds to the truth. Although I'm not religious, I supported my Christian friends in the sense you live your life and I'll live mine. I worked with these people for years. Several remained friends after my retirement. And despite everything, despite all my pleadings, despite all the facts, they voted for Trump. It is a cult in every sense of the word. The fact the majority of white women and men voted for Trump gutted me. I feel betrayed in ways I can't even express. As a child I knew a French resistance fighter who was imprisoned and emigrated to the US after the war. He was a close friend to my family. When you have sounded the alarm for four years, donated, called, and written letter after letter, joined Never Trump resistance groups, been told you're fear mongering because you beg people to understand he is Hitler, and yet the best candidate you've seen in fifty years loses to this psychopath, it is a reality check.
Joyce, you're one of the people I respect most in the world. But you and the MSNBC crowd are sounding very platitudinous now, with statements like: "We have to hold tightly to as many of our laws, norms, and democratic values as we can, because we’re going to need them to get through this," and "this fight to reclaim longstanding principles we’ve taken for granted, like the fact that a criminal defendant judged guilty by a jury must face the consequences. But either we begin that work, or we abandon democracy entirely. I choose the path of hard work. . ." What does all of that mean? What "hard work" can we do that will make any difference at all in the face of 75 million people who voted for Donald Trump for a third time? I don't know what else I'd expect you to say, but I don't know how to fight any harder than I did, and we lost. This is who we are, now.
I'm not being platitudinous. When Trump starts separating families, engaging in mass deportations, firing career civil servants who flunk his loyalty test, preventing women and other from traveling to get medical care, we'd better hope we have some shreds of the rule of law and our norms left to rely upon. It is not going to be an easy four years. There are consequences to giving up on the rule of law and my judgment is we cannot afford them, although I understand and am sympathetic to people, like you, who are fed up. I just don't want to give up while there's still any possible fight for justice left.
We're not fed up, Joyce. We are resigned. Trump is not going to follow any "rule of law". He has immunity, and he's got the GOP behind him. They've all bent the knee. And what's worse, there will be at least 74 million people who will watch the bloody mass deportation as sport.
There are still members of Congress and some federal judges, plus lawyers like Marc Elias, who can make the turdly plans harder to implement. The military can refuse to go out and kill American citizens the turd hates. We ca individually get out the info that is true to others. Seriously. Are you telling me that I should give up and kiss his stinky ass???? Really. If you obey in advance like that you are GUARANTEEING that he will mow us all down.
Did I say you should give up? Of course not. I'm looking forward to seeing what our military does. Everyone here has worked incredibly hard getting the "truth" out there. Retired military spoke out. Former Trump staff spoke out. People from the upper echelon of politics spoke out. Family members like Mary Trump spoke out. Hundreds of people spoke out. He's a convicted felon who incited an attack on our Capitol. And what did the White Evangelical Christians do? Vote for him. What did the Arab population in Michigan do? Vote for Jill Stein as a protest Vote. I can guarantee everyone commenting has put it on the line with family, friends and neighbors. We donated, we voted. So please realize we did get the info out there but alot of people didn't care and too many wanted Trump.
We ordinary folks are ignorant of what can be done. We can't conceive of what men who are after power can conceive of doing. If you want your eyes opened with a small investment of time, read these summaries about how Hitler consolidated his power. The first couple of sections are material many of us are already familiar with --violent acts against the Jews and then the night they killed all their political enemies. No, go past that and read what they did to the civil service and finally to the last section summarizing the Themes of Nazi Consolidation. It will only take you five minutes to read it. It will give you a lot to think about. I had seen pieces of this in other places, but this is the best summary I have seen. Make no mistake about it, people like Trump are using Hitlers play book page by page, and they are succeeding.
The problem is that we did see it and fight against it and lost in an apparently fair election. We're toast. We don't have the tanks needed. We're at his mercy already.
What is the point? You might ask. Well first of all judging by the vote people are not convinced that disaster is possible. The alarm bells are ringing but who is listening? Some of us are listening but are we doing anything? We are still hoping I think that we are wrong and that things won't get that bad here. But unless we increase the energy behind our organizing to combat the anti-democracy forces, by the time we realize they are getting that bad it will be too late! I guess that's the point.
Professor Vance, I agree with you but I don't know what it means to fight, now! We all "fought" him every day of the last four years he was in office; we wrote to our Congressmen, we protested his heinous acts, we wrote letters to editors, we did our best to convince people in our lives that he poses an existential threat, we voted. He got far more votes last week than he did in 2016 and very close to the number he got in 2020. If anything, MAGA is growing in popularity. I don't want to "give up" either, but I also just can't spend the rest of my life fighting a tidal wave of fascism.
Betsy, I understand your angst, but you might consider a couple of things.
One, sooner or later (and very likely sooner) Trump is going put something in place that will harm enough of his adherents to force them to see enough of the truth to turn on him or at least away from him. Right now that may be his tariffs, but it will be something. And we need to be ready to help make use of that.
There is also the possibility, however slight it may seem now, that at the same point, enough Republican legislators will finally feel they’ve caved enough, and that their re-elections just aren’t as important anymore as preserving our Republic.
Second, and I know this may also seem platitudinous as well, but American is a long game, and this is not the first time we’ve faced political, moral, and emotional turmoil. I can’t know your age, but if you’d been alive and aware at the end of1968, a truly awful year, when for a time I really did think we might come apart at the seams you might see that daylight, however hazy may not be out of sight. Or in October of 1962 when we waited for thirteen terrible days with bated breath for resolution or Armageddon. We’re still here.
The final phrase of the Declaration comes to mind. “And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
Yeah, it’s a bit sappy and it's certainly idealistic and there’s more than a little bravado in it. Sometimes protecting our Republic has meant taking on the best military force in the western world with a bunch of half-trained farmers and artisans led by a Virginia planter who had at one point wanted nothing more than to be a part of that military. Sometimes it just means continuing to be an American citizen who understands who we were meant to be and is unwilling to give up on us, even when millions of us just don’t seem to get it.
Likely as not, I won’t live to see how this turns out. And there are times when I think I’ve lived my whole life trying to see my way through one damn storm after another. But I also spent over 40 of those years teaching American history to sixth and seventh graders and despite our failures among the way, we remain, as the very best of us once noted, ‘the last best hope of earth” . I’m not willing to bet against that.
Thanks. I appreciate your post. I think this is unlike any of our past challenges, and no one ever said the pendulum can't. just. break. Our democracy had a good run--far longer than any of the Founders would have predicted--and what is happening is heartbreaking.
May I suggest you watch Rachel Maddow's Ultra 2. We DID have a time as bad as this, for sure. We just don't realize it. She discovered it. You'll come away with a new appreciation for what we can live though. It's a podcast easy to find and exciting /shocking to learn about. That's why she made it.
As of this writing, according to CNN, Trump leads Harris by 3.2 million votes, or 50.2% to 48.1% with 95% of the votes counted. With millions of votes left to count, including in very blue parts of California, that margin will close. As of this morning, Nate Silver even suggested that when all is said and done, Trump could end up with under 50% of the vote, with a winning margin of under 1.5%.
The above information doesn't fit the Chicken Little (sorry Joyce Vance chickens - I know you wouldn't indulge in hysteria) Sky is falling hysteria. Just give it a rest, please.
One thing, "Trump is on track for a smaller popular vote victory than Hillary Clinton won in 2016". Ezra Klein. Again, just give it a rest.....I could keep on doing the research, but why should I?
One more:
Compare this with four years ago, when Joe Biden—whom Trump never would never have conceded had a “mandate”—won by 7 million votes and 4.4% of the vote.
All of this is true. The problem is he's going to be President with no guardrails and is consumed with revenge plans. Worse, the GOP supports him. Today Trey Gowdy was on FOX News talking about changing the constitution so Trump could remain in office. The key will be our military. Will they keep to their pledge to our constitution or follow Trump. This is the biggie. So whether he won by a field goal or four touchdowns, he has the ball.
Keep on listening to the MAGAmonstrosities. That's exactly what they want us to do. Of course, Trey Gowdy was on Fox, that is the only entertainment channel which will air the lies, fabrications, and profanities that the MAGA party vomits. As for the football analogy? Nope. He doesn't have the ball. First and foremost, he's ill, it's just a matter of time, a short time at that, that he will drop dead. Then you have the lickspittle Vance to deal with.....he's too weak to do anything but fold, the infighting in the MAGA party will be making the odd makers in Las Vegas heads spin.
I don't watch FOX News. A clip of Gowdy dropped in my feed. But after this horrific loss, we need to know what they are saying because too many people listen to them. Know the enemy. And people I respect have reported that the influence of FOX and the Right wing Maga played a huge role in helping Trump to win. Some way we have to find a way to counter that.
But we need to remember that the tidal wave is constructed upon, and depends upon, hate, racism, misogyny, envy, and fear. Yes, those are fundamental emotional states of many human beings, but the actions the orange turd will take will eventually turn upon the MAGA fools, too. It's inevitable, and these people will NOT be happy.
Betsy, I fought as best I could, too. I am angry at the millions of people who rolled onto their backs to present their bellies in submission and didn’t vote at all. I do think that none of us who fought back should “ go gentle into that good night” we need to continue to rage. Rest yourself. Then get back up!
I do WISH that everyone would stop pointing fingers. We can all agree that certain people let us down, but, now is the time to reorganize. Look for places that may help us hold onto our Country. I know that we can. We beat a King, we can beat this imposter. All the naysaying is wasting energy. I am older, but, I will NOT GIVE UP ON OUR COUNTRY !!!
It may be time for self-reflection - who was feeling left out? Why?
Do you need to take time to assimilate what has happened? How you are feeling? Then, take that time. Be good to yourself, rest, because, you /we will be needed soon.
The tidal wave of fascism will loose momentum when the people who voted for it start to realize what they have done. I don't think they really understand fascism but they are about to.
Join Indivisible, Third Act (if a senior), your local Dems, talk with friends, write letters to the editor, post on Blue Sky, read the books that will lead to your understanding of our situation. I recommend Timothy Snyder's _On Tyranny_ and _On Freedom_; Ruth Ben-Ghiat's _Strongmen_; Anne Applebaum's _The Twilight of Democracy_ and _Autocracy, Inc._; Jason Stanley's _How Fascism Works_ and _Erasing History_. That's just for starters.
What I’ve done and am doing. Still, and refusing and resisting. Bearing witness. I’ve been doing this work locally for forever (I’m 76) including teaching Havel, Klima, Fanon back in the day. Keep pushing back, write those letters. I’m in Indivisible leadership in my state, where a couple of us focused on school board elections. We changed the school board makeup from pro-trump anti-lgbtq members to a fully liberal, anti-book banning board. We’re now on to the library board, working a tough crowd and election denying oversight. Work locally; it’s harder and not as sexy as the big battles. But you, too, can get your name on a Breitbart list for signing on to teach honest history, and have your school called to have you fired. We did this, and I am OLD, folks, OLD and tired.
I would like to protect, hide, transport, people who are Hispanic and have lived in my State of California, working, paying taxes, raising families, attending college, working where others would not. When those pissy trumpian guys start to round up people without cause, I won't be able to just stand by.
Ask yourself now what your red lines are. What actions will you protest? Which ones might you look away from?
Are there community groups you can join now to see if they will become a source of strength and eventually, resistance?
What about joining a political group - if there are any where you live. (Where I currently live all there is are Republican groups. I’m working on moving.)
Thanks Joyce for the facts. A chilling week but inspiring that so many of us are paying attention and making connections to find a path forward. You are tremendously inspirational and I am so grateful 🌻🕯️🗽
Yes Joyce, it will likely be a bloody, bare knuckle fight. But not only is the justice system (despite an Imperial Court) still largely intact and populated by practitioners who still believe in the rule of law and the Constitution, but the gang that couldn't shoot straight has unlikely improved its aim. Just added some new corrupt and/or incompetent gang members. Loyalty is the only criterion.
And remember the election really depended on those who DIDN’T vote… those who will soon be coming out of their hibernation and realize just what they have enabled.
I don’t think I’m naive to say that many will experience a wake-up call when they realize they’ve shot themselves in the foot… and it’s up to us to point that out to them starting NOW. I also don’t think Jd will command the hero worship of those in the Trump cult. He’s not at all likable.. and neither is Elon despite his $. Leave “twitter and let’s get behind dependable (non billionaire supported) news to spread the truth.
If we give up on the rule of law we are saying yes to authoritarianism, we are acquiescing before being forced to. I'm fed up, but I still believe in fighting to retain what we believe in.
Wait a minute. I did not and have not given up on the rule of law. I am stating the fact that it no longer applies to everyone. This is not the fault of every day people! This is the fault of those in the judiciary who have made this possible!
Might I say again: "What Rule of Law". Even you, Joyce, our Hero can't get away with that level of Bull-Shit. America has long been a joke when it comes to "Rule of Law". Maybe, as a person in the "Profession", you can't see the forest for the trees (or chickens), but there hasn't been rule of law for so many of us, I would even add the word 'EVER' in America. I love my adopted country and its diverse people. It has afforded me so much, and I will resist for her. This latest return to "Greatness" is such crap though, that even the "good" lawyers should be ashamed of what their professional colleagues have done to extend the decay. We have systematic discrimination and legal repression throughout our land, and we are now going to "ride that rot" until the Maggots have cleansed it all into the form of a Reich lead by a freaking lunatic who takes advantage every day that our "rule of law" does not protect the weak, timid or disadvantaged from the predators.
The thing is Joyce, you will be ok no matter what. I have two pre-existing conditions, and as a single-income earner, with my own business, I'm staring down losing not only coverage for those two diseases, but my, already insanely expensive, health insurance completely. 99% of us are terrified and the same old over intellectualized tropes are being trotted out. And they remind me of all of the books I read about the Holocaust growing up where German Jews said they would never do this to us. Well, they have been, and they are, for decades.
Donald Trump’s margin in the popular vote was 1.5% in a year where an anti incumbent wave swept the world after the economic disruptions of the pandemic. Buyer’s remorse and voter backlash against Trump will be strong. Down ballot races in many states held back a MAGA tide. I’m choosing to hang in there and fight at the local and state level and prepare for 2026. But yeah, it’s been a rough week.
We've got a lot of very smart people--people like Lawrence Tribe and Jamie Raskin, and Joyce Vance, and multitudes of others, who will be fighting to save our Democracy!
EDIT I just found out about a group called Indivisible that has chapters all over the country, and started fighting Trump and his lackeys when he got elected the first time. They seem to have a strong handle on how to defeat him. I've signed up to work with my local chapter of Indivisible (Concord MA) and I would recommend looking into doing the same. Just google.
81 million people fired Trump in 2020. I don't think we have a choice but to be strong and fight. Fascists want us to despair. We can find opportunities at every level of our society to work with others. We have faced chasms bigger than this before; the movements that emerged did not succeed without a struggle. Tomorrow, at 8:30 pm, if anyone is interested or curious, Indivisible is holding a national zoom to discuss resisting Trump 2.0.
I don't know, exactly, but I'm keeping my eyes open, maintaining confidence, and reading and listening. I don't expect anything to be obvious nearly this quickly.
And as for "...since 2016" we haven't been in the same situation. 2016-2020, we swept the midterms and then won the presidential election, and there weren't any worries about whether we'd have elections. Now we're worried, which is why I allude to people like Larry Tribe et al.
I own Tribe's seminal "Constitutional Law" tome and have read every one of nearly 800 pages. I love Tribe. But I don't know what you expect him to do that he hasn't done already. Fix our public education system even as Trump dismantles it in favor of vouchers and hanging the Ten Commandments in classrooms? School the Supreme Court justices he already schooled? Battle his way onto Fox newscast sets?
MAGA may not admit their mistake but a lot of people who voted him don't necessarily identify as MAGA. I, as Dr. Quest above states, believe that Trump will overstep in a massive way and there will be a backlash and it will be fairly quick. We've seen it happen in Michigan locally with extremist local candidates. Trump also promised everything to everyone and there's no way he will be able to deliver. The best thing we can do is be there to provide reasonable options once the voters realized they've been had.
YUP. This counts especially strongly for those voters who never follow politics and yet voted for him. That's a total abdication of responsibility for critical thinking.
My point those is that they may not admit their mistake but they will vote for something different next time. I don't understand the fickleness because I'm not, but it appears a lot of people go back and forth. I think looking at the AOC/Trump voters or the Bernie/Trump voters may be useful.
Watching from outside: the hardwork is to not let things go by unnoticed. To call them out and not let the norms slide by unnoticed. To file suit when it makes sense. Create new ways rto approach issue. In short, stay in the game, in face of these abjectly evil, greedy people. It's easier when you are standing up FOR something. In this moment, all that can be done is to stand against something. And that would seem to me to be mightly, mighty hard.
I am a USAF veteran officer who would not now take the commissioning oath. We are not who we were even ten years ago and I want nothing to do with this. It's heartbreaking; my heart is broken. But this is not what I swore to support and defend with my life.
I agree--but the turd will appoint an overseer of the Pentagon who will replace the senior officials in the military with those who kiss the turdly ass, and that may make all the difference.
“For many people, the rule of law has become a laughing stock, a joke. But hear me out on this—abandoning the rule of law is not the path forward for us. Insisting on it, demanding that it still apply, is.” ~ Joyce Vance
Could we contact Judge Merchan and express our concern for the rule of law? How can we do that?
While he was president, McConnell said try him in a court of law and refused to impeach him.
Then his attorneys delayed, delayed, delayed until it was too close to the election. He was to be sentenced after the election, which apparently they didn’t protest.
Now it’s after the election. He is not president. He should be sentenced. Trump should not have been allowed to run in the first place.
I share your frustration. I cannot abide having my ideals and the entire concept of the social contract, let alone the foundational principle of my country, shit upon and trampled by a convicted felon who appears on the verge of slithering out of any accountability thanks to a corrupting of the judicial system by mere guttersnipe politicians and ideologues wearing black robes.
I recognize the danger of anger, that it is easily manipulated and perverted to inappropriate or unjust ends. Nevertheless, a deep anger at what's happening now and what has been allowed to happen over the last several years burns white hot within me. So my challenge is not to extinguish it but to channel it and have it fuel productive work going forward.
The only answer is to build and join in community, and to resist, in every way possible, as we can according to each of our individual lights. Peacefully, lawfully, within the bounds of human decency, and all while preserving one's mental and physical health, but resist. I cede nothing -- the other side wants us to feel defeated and powerless -- and I am not going down without the best fight I can put together. This is not how I had planned to spend my remaining relatively few years, but here we are. Save what we can, work to restore decency and honesty and compassion to our government, and start laying the groundwork for a thorough rebuild. I will not go gentle into that good night.
Intellectually I hear Joyce and don’t disagree. However, you have nailed my feelings perfectly. Joyce gave us a pep talk. But it is empty because we live in country of short sighted voters, uninformed voters, and disinterested voters. When they start hurting perhaps, just perhaps they will open their eyes and MINDS. The damage is being done in this present moment.
Other countries have overthrown fascist regimes. Opportunities to advance our cause will emerge, even if they offer only one step forward or if they block a further incursion. We don't know how long it will take to reach our goal of a fully realized democracy under the rule of law. If there's no way forward right now, rest, wait, watch, learn.
It is a dreary path forward. I simply cannot accept the undeniable fact that this moron will again, get off scott free. He will gather his mean spirited sycophants and destroy our nation.
It gets me crazy to know that HE will be the POTUS when we celebrate 250 years of our democracy. What an incomprehensible situation we are in! And he will be POTUS for the upcoming Olympics. My god he has no clue, no understanding of the effort that drives these worldwide athletes. I am so sad just to think about this.
Today I was thinking how this creature dominated our lives in the 4 years of his presidency and most of Biden's presidency and now we look at another 4 years--as he dismantles the judicial system and indeed democracy too. Holding him to account has been impossible and will be impossible with this Supreme Court--they have given him license to do as he pleases. I want to believe in the rule of law but it's getting harder every day.
We haven't failed. We're just getting going! Sleep well, then, and wake up refreshed. And read those people who are being more optimistic than a lot of the commenters in Joyce's substack. Both optimism and pessimism can be contagious. So look for the former. If you have optimistic friends or an optimistic significant other, seek them out! If you're in the Boston area, and you need someone to buck you up, let me know. And take a little time to do something that gives you energy and/or makes you feel good. Have a good book handy. I recommend Tribe, by Sebastian Junger, as it gives the reader a gut level sense of how important the people in our lives are, and how well people can work together when their goal with the work is extremely important, as to survival. I consider it the most important book I've read in my 50 year adult life. (It's a quick read--2-3 hours, but an excellent read.)
And after you read Tribe, read Alfred Lansing's Endurance, about how Ernest Shackleton and ALL OF HIS 28 men made it back to civilization after Antarctic ice chewed up and spat out their boat. They had to find all their stuff on the boat, put it on the three lifeboats, pull the lifeboats 10 miles over the ice to where they finally reached the ocean. They sailed to an island well to the north, where the men remained for months before they took off again, sleeping under the lifeboats... It took them 15 months from Antarctic ice to civilization, being cold all that time, eating whatever the cold waters offered--for quite a while it was penguins--sailing the worst waters on the planet. Endurance is very hard to put down.
Having read Tribe first, you'll understand at gut level how well the men worked together, and how they were able to make it back to civilization. As well as how we're going to be able to do what we have to do to maintain our Democracy.
Joyce, thank you to you and your legal sisters for staying on top of everything. That he is getting off with a free pass makes me despair for our country and humanity. Your voice is one of few I can tune into at the moment. I don't know how you are able to stick it out but I am grateful. So grateful. And I'm not the only one, I'm certain.
I'm grateful for all of y'all, and getting to read people's smart and thoughtful comments. I know I still have a lot of processing to do, and it's made so much more comforting by being with a community of people trying to work through the same issues. This really sucks.
Merrick Garland is an abject failure. If the rule of law is lost the blame will likely be placed at his feet. Allowing insurrectionists to roam free may well have doomed the USA. Pardoned Jan 6 convicts may well be the new Gestapo.
There are lots of people who will be leading us in our efforts to preserve Democracy and the Rule of Law--people like Lawrence Tribe, Jamie Raskin, Joyce Vance, Robert Hubbell, and many more. As well as blue governors and AGs.
The problem is people are being flooded with disinformation on “X” and “Twitter”. Somehow we need to get a law stating they can’t be spreading disinformation. It is not allowed on Nextdoor.com. How can it be allowed on “X” and Twitter?
Trump won because of disinformation. His lies, the Russian election interference flooding social media with more lies, and lies coming from his MAGA supporters. The people consumed and believed the lies. Should the Democrats fight them with bigger lies?
How are we going to turn this around? We are too nice. We play by the rules. It didn’t work.
Marlo nails it! That so many voted for a contemptible man with contemptible policies and a history of despicable actions is because the first amendment has been disfigured into a license to stuff pathetic minds with lies:
Lies about medicine, climate science, crime rates, immigration, personal rights and liberties, etc. See the November 1, 2024 issue of Science which featured a collection of articles on the research on misinformation and disinformation. What's missing is a well-funded, well coordinated and aggressive assault on the dissemination of misinformation and an even more aggressive frontal attack on those creating intentional disinformation.
When a $787.7 mil fine doesn’t even slow down Fox and civil judgements don’t slow down Trump we are truly in a dark age. Maybe Democracy Docket needs to shift focus to suing all the liars over and over until they are bankrupt. The only perp so far that appears close to bankruptcy is Rudy. Lying has to cost them billions.
Garland blew the federal criminal prosecutions. Here’s hoping states like NY, Georgia and Arizona continue their prosecutions.
Somehow, we'd have to figure out how to attract conservative people to a new social media institution that we would come up with, that would have real information. We used to have requirements that all media that talked about politics had to give equal time to both Democrats and Republicans. This was called the Fairness Doctrine, and Ronald REagan, may he burn in Hell, ended it.
There also used to be a lot of local newspapers, including in the hinterlands, but these have pretty much fallen on hard times.
We need to figure out how to reach these people with something they are attracted to (that would have been local news in a lot of cases) and also give them good information on politics.
Nah. You can't win a totally asymmetric battle. Numerous wonderful individuals and organizations have already tried to disseminate facts. That has been a total failure. We are doomed without a serious attack on lies.
What do you envision for a serious attack on lies? How could that work? If that's what we need to do, we need to figure out how to do it. To that end, we'll need people who are monitoring their sources so we have the lies we need to attack.
A very well-funded “Facts Matter” organization should be created with full-time attorneys, media experts, etc. The liars should be immediately sued after they lie, on whatever grounds possible. The liars should be identified publicly and with every means possible the message should be “Larry (or Linda) Liar is trying to manipulate you, by lying to you about (crime, immigration, science, etc). Don’t fall for it.” That should be followed by an appropriate recommendation to get the facts, such as the FBI website. The Facts Matter org should go after the liars in any way possible. A billboard should go up near their church or country club, or home calling them out for their lies. Flood social media with truth-telling bots. Call out newspapers which failed to make it a headline that, for example, a talking head on Fox lied about…whatever they lied about. All out war should be waged against the originators of disinformation. There must be a high price for lying.
I don’t know if this has ever been established as factual, but the apocryphal story about a drop in the crime rate in NYC is that it started when they cracked down on littering by making it clear that NO violations of the law would be ignored. With that in mind, the Facts Matter org should go after misleading promotion of useless nutritional supplements and other products that don’t work, the liars of Creationism, corporations guilty of greenwashing, AND must also go after leftists who exaggerate or bend the facts (although it sure seems like that will be needed infrequently compared to the other “side”). Speed matters. The Facts Matter org must be nimble because it’s been pointed out that lies get around the world in the time it takes for facts to cross the street. And repetition matters. The liars know this. Trump and his army of liars just repeat lies over and over and over again until they seem true to the numbskulls. Facts must be repeated endlessly in social media posts, on signs, billboards, paid video pieces, etc. But almost above all, the Facts Matter org should loudly criticize all corners of the media each and every time they fail to make it a very big headline that, for example, “SENATOR MAGA MCGOO LIES ABOUT IMMIGRATION.” Why is it not very big news when such lies are told? If truth and facts are important to having a healthy society, then potentially influential lies should be THE STORY each time one is told. Sure, that might get repetitive, but that’s the point. After the Very Big Headlines every single day for 100 days is that Trump lies about, say, election security, then it just very well might sink into numbskulls’ heads that Trump lies about election security. Each and every lie told on Fox “News” must be exposed, along with the message that watching Fox will result in the viewer being deceived. A Facts Matter org must do everything possible to get people to turn away from watching right wing propaganda media outlets. I don’t think that even MAGA morons like being lied to.
...unless liberals and Democratic leaders grow a spine, that's wishful thinking at best. That's exactly what I thought too since the era of Ronald Reagan until this election. Democrats failed to rise to the challenge. With all three branches of government firmly controlled by the Trump/Musk/Putin party, the national Democratic Party will be no more effective than the Democratic Party of Alabama has been in confronting the Trump forces.
I absolutely believe that Judge Merchon should not dismiss Trump’s conviction. Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts by a jury of his peers. Any evidence that should be excluded because of the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling is minimal and will not affect the outcome. Judge Merchon can sentence Trump and then stay the sentence until after Trump leaves office. That will not interfere with his ability to govern but will insure that, in at least one case, Trump is not above the law. There needs to be some accountability.
The rule of law no longer exists. All the three branches of government checks and balances we were taught was, and is, a sham. The "Supreme Court" has given the American public an imperial presidency. The legal and judicial systems have failed; the legislative branch is now captured by the executive branch and will slavishly do the executive's bidding. The so called rule of law will be applied by a bought and paid for judiciary with the help the oligarchs that shower favors on the judges. In short, the American democracy we were all taught, beginning in junior high civic classes, is a myth.
Slight correction. It wasn't a myth; it's just over. Remember Franklin's warning: "A republic, if you can keep it." Democracies require an educated electorate and we have graduated illiterate kids for decades, dumbing down every level of public education until those aspects of democracy you listed are meaningless to too many citizens. The Founders would be very surprised that we lasted this long.
I respectfully disagree in part. It was a myth Benjamin Franklin warned us about. He witnessed the weaknesses of the other Founder's creation. I agree that public education has been a process of dumbing down students, but that dumbing down has been driven by segregationist, right wing extremists like the Dixiecrats that infested and infected the GOP and it's plantation mentality of strong backs and weak minds.. The south is rising again, and its name is Donald John Trump's MAGA.
All this reminds me of when Hitler was elected. People really thought Germany would be ok; they would be ok. Hitler didn't start out gassing people. It was a slow, steady process. Remember Trump is enthralled by Hitler. The MAGA attitude is Hitler was a good guy - "he just went too far".
I am just so flabbergasted that all it took for someone to blast a hole in all our traditions, norms, and requirements was to just refuse to abide by them.
Who knew it was so simple that a nervy idiot could do it??
All our systems have proven to be utterly toothless. Their careful long game since Reagan has paid off.
Not to mention the fact that this is always who America really was: money and white supremacy.
You only get life for financial crimes if you're poor and/or Black. And you only get 15 years or less for murder if you're white. ESPECIALLY if you're white and racist.
The work will indeed be dreary and hard, but I hope enough of us can find the strength to be joyful warriors 💔💜
As it relates to the law, and in light of what now seems to be another ultra slim majority for Rs in the house, are there any really good resources out there to help us understand how far executive orders can really go? Additionally, any insight on what this forming miasma of a cabinet could really do without a united house and senate to help them would be much appreciated.
It's nauseating to think that our "best case" scenario might be that they all fight too much to get anything done, but I am curious about what they could accomplish on executive orders and other non-congressional things alone?
I think it may be that we let the imperial presidency go to far for too many years so trump was just a final leap. The world is too complex now for one person to have so much power. Now we see why. It is also why lifetime appointments are also outmoded.
I’m just going to say it. Trump is a cancer in the American system of law, order and jurisprudence. To the extent that this cancer metastasizes to choke off the life of our constitutional republic in total….the jury’s still out. I, for one, will resist the rot at every turn. Thank you, Joyce, for all your hard and very necessary work to keep the truth on all these issues in the forefront.
The sooner he dies, the better. Yes be afraid of Corporal Couchfuck, but he's no Donald Trump. He won't be able to "carry on."
Right. Couchfuck McGee has none of the contacts (and blackmail) that Trump does, and despite being Thiel’s protogé, Couchfuck is a bumbling moron. No doubt the gov’t depts and processes will be a fucking mess, but his incompetence will likely save us.
Actually, I think you will enjoy this piece from Prof. Timothy Snyder where he compares the incoming White House to a sitcom from the 1960s, which he called Oligarchs' Island. With it he is pointing to the need for humor in these dark times.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/oligarchs-island?utm_source=substack&publication_id=310897&post_id=151527054&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=f0qfn&triedRedirect=true
If you have never seen the show. Here is a link to the movie if you can stand that much stupid. It has all of the characters.
https://youtu.be/DtPnUOO-5UU?si=JZYMbIgfhEJiJ2oe
You will find an interesting roll for JDV and for his wife, the one we know coached him for the debate, and seems to be ruling the roost from the position of the subservient wife to a Christian Nationalist.
OMG its been... 46 years since I saw this film. We may have walked out LOL but I can't remember any of it since I was probably stoned out of my mind that night (I was still doing pot at that time LOL). Great opening though! And just for the record, I'm Jewish but was thrilled to see the absolutely inimitable Sherwood Schwartz as director! And his two brothers co-wrote the script with him too LOL! PERFECTION! (And I love Bob Denver, always have ever since he was on Dobie Gillis!).
Thank you. I watched Gillians Island. This was a very interesting parody!!
TCinLA and Vicki Kasabian (and all who agree with them), never underestimate the enemy.
In this case, the oligarch puppet masters will ensure that the "president" does whatever they want.
I agree wholeheartedly! And we haven't heard much from Couchfuck since the election. Mrs Trumpmusk sure has been visible though. I think he's going to be the shadow president.
Two half-crazed alpha males will not be buddies for long.
Yes there's only room for one of them in Trumpworld.
Thing is…ONLY
WANNA BE ALPHA MEN. Underneath it all, they’re just foolish, dorky, evil, power hungry little boys.
WANNA BE? Are you kidding? They are running the most powerful country in the world and you are fumbling at your keyboard.
WHo in hell are you to judge tow of the most successful men in the world.
Where is your linkin page?
You just look like a fool.
james if you want to be a successful bot you have got to learn how to spell.
Most of us are fumbling because this horror seems beyond our control. And the power of the players IS THE PROBLEM!
Good points. Seems the Veep-elect has been superseded by the Elon in the Donald's eye. Call it muskrat love.
Bad, Neddy, very bad.
See this parody about that by Prof. Timothy Snyder in Oligarchs' Island.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/oligarchs-island?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&triedRedirect=true
What a clever essay by this brilliant man. Mrs Vance is a mystery to me. Like Mary Ann's, her modesty becomes her well. Even as a kid in the target audience of the original show, I did not much care for "Gilligan's Island"; the sequel will be even less appealing.
Sure they will…they are Beavis and Butthead!
And, they have the maturity of someone in Junior High School. It is a horrible combination to run the country, but while things may not remain smooth between the two, they are each other's useful idiots.
Trump and Musk? Then there's JDV who'll invoke the constitution to declare Trump to be insane so he can take over. I accidentally heard a reading of Padre Pio the other day. And I'm preparing to stay in the house with the windows covered.
Its a major upgrade from the TWO IDIOTS running the country now.
Four years of the amateur hour is coming to an end.
Thank God for Trump and Musk.
In the Oligarchs' Island, by Prof. Timothy Snyder, Melania is conflated with Trump, and Putins' display of her nude photos on Russian television is discussed as humiliating Trump. Here is a link to that piece.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/oligarchs-island?utm_source=substack&publication_id=310897&post_id=151527054&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=f0qfn&triedRedirect=true
In fact, the image I have of the relationships Prof. Snyder talks about is from the album cover of My Fair Lady that shows Shaw manipulating Prof Higgins, who is manipulating 'Liza as puppets. Only trade out Shaw for Xi Jin Ping, and Prof. Doolittle for Putin. And 'Liza for Trump.
https://fontsinuse.com/uses/38855/rex-harrison-julie-andrews-et-al-my-fair-lady
Be still his heart.
He doesn't have one.... ; )
Thank you for the reassurance, TC.
Jay Kuo discussed that there is a chance the House might be democratic in which case Hakeen Jeffries would be 3rd in line. In that case, we need to wish that DT and JDV have unfortunate ill health.
TC, so must Putin, whose designs mark the entire fiasco and who may destroy another nation as a result of democracy's demise. Both are unmitigated madmen.
Yes. But interestingly, the foreign policy people Trump has appointed are not Ukraine sellouts. In fact the guy who will be NSA believes Ukraine should get long range weapons and use them.
That really IS interesting. I have a Ukrainian friend, who is currently in the US for a number of years, who will be very interested, and probably very relieved to hear this. Thanks!
TY,TC
Bomb the shit out of Pee-Pee Le Put on his own toilet!
No. When he dies the most terrible things will start happening because an inexperienced, changeable zealot, controlled by a very wealthy zealot will be crowned US President.
Bravo,TC!
His health isn't getting any better. That's why he will be only trotted out when necessary. His mental health and physical health is deteriorating.
The drugs reportedly done in his past administration to prop him up will continue.
At least Hillibilly hasn't been indicted for nor convicted of felonious conduct, so there's that. tRump? He's been getting away with everything short of murder since his 20s, and at nearly 79, he's home-free. Yes, only death will ever rid us of this abominable creature.
yes, his or ours
Don't believe that it will be tfg who governs in fact, or that when he dies it will become that both-sides-of-his-mouth VD, ... er, JD.
The pre-compromised puppet administration that the project 2025 coup-crew puts in place is our next façade government (but hard to tell if it is in fact the Federalist Society, or Putin, or a consortium of oligarchs), regardless of when tfg bites the dust.
We need to observe what makes what move to know who's who going forward, and not be misled by façade.
WHAT A DISGUSTING POST. They tried to destroy him, jail him, bankrupt him, and assasinate him ans YET HE WON. Why?
Because America found you significantly MORE DISGUSTING.
You are a narcissist. Its all about you. America voted and they gave you the middle finger. KEEP THROWING YOUR TEMPER TANTRUM.
Take the L like a man, assuming that's how you idenitfy.
You are proof that wokeness never did a goddamn thing for anyone. Its aim to destroy
everything it touches.
Just because a majority of ill informed people voted for lies doesn't make them truth.
I never thought I'd say this, but I agree TC! However, there is the rich and powerful Musk...
Wow, this thread was heading down a deep, fruitless rabbit hole even before the troll weighed in. I can never figure out why that happens in spite of Joyce’s fact-based, legally astute, inspiring writing.
Agree Christie. Not a subtle troll either.
Deportation
by Lynn Geri
“Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning
to breathe free.”
.
An elderly French woman is loose in New York
spreading pro-immigration propaganda.
She didn’t say these words when we let her in
now she attracts too much attention.
Her incendiary promotion is subversive
she’s the most dangerous woman in our land.
ICE says it’s doubtful she is eligible for entry
under the Republicans’ immigration plan.
The woman does not speak English well,
holding a torch in the air is not a needed skill.
Neither she nor that blind Italian,
with her now tinny scales and sword,
are white, nor are they vulgar.
They need to be asked to leave.
Thank to Andy Borowitz
Found poetry
Excellent 💝🖖💡
Yes,I am with you.He is a cancer on America’s soul.I never pray for anyone’s death but I make an exception every day.He is the head of the poisonous snake that is strangling our democracy and the head of that snake needs to come off.
When my Ma was alive (obviously) we would talk on the phone every day. Invariably, she would start off a conversation with, 'Guess who died?' Kinda how I feel. I turn on my computer every morning, hoping to see the news flash across my screen, but nah. Disappointed every day.
My mom did the same thing! And every morning in my morning meditation I pray for removal of the poison that has Infiltrated and trying to destroy our country
Could the Justice Department have proceeded more quickly in pursuing charges against President Trump after 06jan21?
Could the D.o.J. have dusted off the Mueller Report for obstruxion of justice or other crimes detected but not pursued five and a half years ago?
Yes and yes! With respect to the delays of any of it. Allowed, tolerated, permitted, acceptable, conceded, consented, how many other ways are there to say it? For those who have the juice, our rule of law has become a laughing stock joke to be sure. Referring to the documents case, I recall hearing about someone in another country asking Michael Popok of Legal AF something to the effect of: So, you take one of the most important criminal cases in United States history and give it to the most biased incompetent and inexperienced Judge instead of a seasoned judge who has years of experience and integrity? Is that how it works.? His answer was yes. A spin of the wheel. What a stupendous failure of judicial common sense.
But Judge Merchan CAN stop this. She can sentence him to prison for 6 years no parole.
We can use the military if need be. But he has to be stopped! And it was his choice to delay the trial and sentencing.
We all need to contact her:
Merchan, Hon. Juan
Court Attorney: James Bergamo, Esq.
Courtroom: Part 59
Location: 100 Centre Street, Room 1602
Telephone: 646-386-4059
Fax: 212-295-4932
Merchan is he, you're thinking of Chutkan.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Merrick Garland should have, could have appointed a special council long before he finally got around to it. If he had it's quite possible the orange man would be in jail by now. This is where, I believe, the blame should rest. On the shoulders of Merrick Garland.
Biden should have appointed someone stronger. Joyce Vance, Andrew Weissman, Jamie Raskin, Eric Swalwell , etc. and Biden should not have run again.
Garland has an excellent record as a prosecutor & a judge. I honestly believe if he didn't pursue this he must have seen strong evidence DOJ might win the initial round but it would lose EVENTUALLY on appeal. That long drawn out process could be very harmful to our country & all of government. Leaders are called upon to make the hard decisions. Remember, this is not an extended episode of L&O. In real life these things can take years with all the legal maneuvering. As much as I want to see Trump out of our lives I honestly believe, in the long run this would all have disappeared.
Millions of $ would have been spent to what end if it was even 50/50 whether or not he would be guilty & jailed.
I'm not an attorney...But I do watch a lot of legal TV! 😎😎😎
Something is wrong with our system if “years of legal maneuvering” is a successful strategy for criminals to elude accountability. I presume it’s only available to rich criminals.
Agree with you 111%, Alyce. 🤬💔🤢💔😥
I tend to agree with you. We are in good company form former Representative Ken Buck (R-CO), a member of the Freedom Caucus before that group booted him just before he left Congress early over breaking with bullies' pursuit of President Biden.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5089395/user-clip-representative-ken-buck-decorum
President Trump is nothing, if not predictable. So, Attorney General Garland knew that Mr Macho Mouth would be belly-aching about witch hunts, etc. So, A.G. Garland likely wanted a really tight case that could stand appeal and not have to s(h)ituation play into President Trump's hands with his 'base' base.
When trying to prosecute a powerful criminal with resources, that investigation would be drawn out. I would not count out a concern, after 06jan21, that the possibility of a civil conflict might have deterred all but the most brazen and transparent cases from proceeding.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda…
I hate all of this in my bones.
Yes.
At least we have you here on the side of democracy and the rule of law. It is so so hard not to despair when after all the judicial proceedings of the past few years, now tffg is allowed to walk away from any consequences and take over the country with his followers.
Even Al Capone had to reckon with accountability, even if it was for tax evasion. For Trump to get away with his many crimes is a travesty.
These are like Biblical times of rending our garments and weeping bitter tears.
My astrologer Dianne Lawson after correctly predicting every presidential election since Clinton predicted Kamala’s win. After studying their astrological charts she found it incredible of the amount of luck present in trump’s chart but found Kamala to be a rising star. She was correct on both but made the wrong call. Trump made a deal with the devil that we’ll never understand….
Laughing all the way.
Seconded.
But it means zero. The other side firstly: don't care; secondly: are actually revelling in such feelings from yourselves. I honestly don't believe these maga 'patriots' have a single F clue what they have enabled, and by the time the penny drops it will be way too late).
While I am typing this my Guardian newsfeed has just pinged to my phone that Musk and Ramaswamy have been picked to lead the 'Department of Government Efficiency' … (a misnomer if ever i've seen one) … so the internal rot has intensified and is working its way to the surface.
You all know now that the 'mad' ravings of trump are going to come true. His narcissism and desire for retribution for being called to justice for his lifetime of grifting, lying, cheating, raping et cetera, is going to play out on full display to the world. Payback is a bitch and he's paying back. If the voting system is left intact you might be able to vote him out, but I imagine that won't be left to chance either, and voting will become more difficult … or suspended about the time two-term-limits are removed.
I hope that you all have the strength to withstand the brazen assault on your country from forces within (in their gross critical thinking incompetence and ignorance), and from outside in THEIR desire to destroy America. In MY bones I don't think the anti-western forces at play will want America to stop its implosion so you can expect Russia et al to support the trump regime … at first.
The Department of Government Efficiency sounds like something straight out of Orwell’s “1984.”
Or Harry Potter..
I think it sounds more like a Harry Potter concoction. If only these dirty soulless grifters could be resisted. Let’s find a way to do that using the structure of “the rule of law” as they will be busy burying it.
Mimi, I just said those very words before I read your comment 💔🤧💔😪🤧💔
Yes, I agree that the MAGA folks are completely clueless about the damage to their own lives, and the lives of all other American citizens, except for the top .01% who are so fucking rich that they don't care about anyone else or anything else except their $$$$$$$$.
That top 0.01% owns the info the MAGAts consume.
Let's start a "Free the MAGAt's" campaign!
While oligarchs own the sources of information, democracy cannot exist.
Did anyone else find it odd that the initials to that Dept. spell Doge?
Not odd at all. Intentional. Also quite juvenile, but that's not surprising where the FELON and ELON are concerned.
From the Guardian earlier today:
"The acronym of the new department – DOGE – coincides with the name of the cryptocurrency Dogecoin that Musk promotes, and the internet meme after which the cryptocurrency is named."
!! And so it begins!! The rich get richer and Donnie might get away with his crimes. This sounds hopeful to me—
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. U.S. Const. art. II, § 4. Supreme Court included??
Right. With MAGAts in charge of both the House and Senate? That's not going to happen.
Hasn't worked so far
sounds like a good movie...
🤯
Yah, but…how many Americans do you think know what a Doge was?
They should though. I guess it's one more thing they've been willfully ignorant about.
He still owes Jean millions!
We have to acknowledge that we are not a country of the rule of law where no man is above the law. The rule of law is now something we aspire to but we have to work to make it happen. And we can’t be naive and pretend it still exists.
With respect, it still exists. Just ask anyone undergoing any criminal prosecution who is not Trump. Our wonderful rule of law, and government are both badly injured, but 185 million U.S. adults did not vote to strike these devastating blows to our body politic. Our collective task therefore, is to not despair, but instead fight the lies, and make sure that those who sat out the election understand what’s at stake in 2 & 4 years.
I just hope that we will actually have elections in 2 and 4 years, and that they won't be the farces that Putin allows in Russia. I believe that's the turd's goal: to end all elections and be president for life, just like all his autocratic pals.
Joyce the rule of law died with jack smith caving and the New York da caving today. If these would not fight and disregard that it makes no difference that trump I pres elect or about to be president.
This left no where to go. I am out of ideas and caring. I am 83. I have enough $ to weather what ever comes first the rest of my life. So I am thinking of going completely dark after I turn all my investments into $!
Assuming that $$$$$$ keep their value.
How? Because that's what I'm thinking too but I have no idea how. Nephew says you can't scrub the internet.
:-(
What’s missing are connections, and effective communication beyond our limited, frothing bubbles. (We dance on Zuchy’s algorithms and all too often pass each other like ships in the night.) U.S. fascists have been working on their little project for at least 45 years. They won - with Putin’s cynical, diabolical assistance … they won by convincing us not to trust each other; they convinced us to forget that we all basically want all the same things, and that by learning - and it’s hard, by learning to work together. What’s the work? Learning to effectively communicate, and spread the word that we, the 99% have much in common; that we’re all blowing it by ignoring each other, and fighting each other for the crumbs laughingly swept from the big boys’ table.
So there could be elections, but, we’re going to have to find ways to awaken the slumbering, punch drunk multitudes (185 million didn’t vote for this), and we’re going to have to do it without tv, radio, newspapers, social media, etc. You know, the cash cow media that we have no access to.
Start - start by finding out what’s important to your …¿?
Please don't bet the farm on this hope you have. I think the first thing to go will be the election infrastructure. These guys plan on staying in power for the duration, and once the election system is disrupted they may very well succeed.
And why would we not, “bet the farm” (with hope)? WTF do we have to lose? We’re pretty much at, “go for broke” as the U.S. Japanese servicemen would say …
Yes, anyone but Trump. That is not equal justice under the law.
I totally agree with you J. Gunnar. We should not despair but help people understand what's at stake. Listen to them and work to find common ground so they will be receptive to your message.
I did my best to help people understand in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. Now I've lost both family and friends and there's no one left to "help."
So sorry Betsy. I understand, my brother's best friend for may years will no longer speak to him, respond to texts, emails the phone, or door knocks. I would guess there are still people who would be willing to help. Just look at the responses of many people in these comments. Maybe find an Indivisible group.
They are out there. I wish you success in your search.
I think many of and others tried to do this for the last 9 month when Project 2025 leaked. Tons of info about it for anyone interested. Chose to actively ignore the drama and extremism. Women bleeding out in hospital parking lots. Musk claiming he can cutb the federal budget by at least a third and Trump promising a position. RFK Jr running science/ medicine: what could go wrong? We tried it all: easily digestible and accessible info on YouTube, in pubs like Rolling Stone and Mother Jones. Nonpartisan meetings and chats with colleagues and neighbors. Convos with friends and family. With my golden retriever (he got it). No one believes it can happen to them..until it does. And it’s coming. Trump just named Musk Co-Head of Efficiency. Is Clarence Thomas going to save your Medicare?
No one really wants to talk or listen. I don’t envy Judge Merchan, but he has acted with integrity throughout so far. I really do think that the convicted felon has proven that money buys justice. Not one of us common folk would ever see this kid glove treatment if we were tried and convicted of these crimes. No one would come to our defense and say “oh never mind!” And magically all would disappear. The other travesties are the classified documents case and his desire to pardon all the J6 participants. It is all so disgusting and has broken my soul. Completely and forever broken.
I totally agree with Ms. Vance and her stretch for hope, but it is a goal that has little chance because we have nothing but MAGA turncoats in Congress.
Oh dear. SAVE YOUR SOUL! Tea and toast. Stay in the house and knit or whittle or draw and be kind to whoever you talk to.
With respect back Gunnar. The rule of law has been non-existent for a long long time for too many of us, and it has simply shifted to an even worse state. Ask any minority, anyone fighting rich people, people broken by healthcare charges, Women being held from leadership in corporations, Union leaders/ Members, black criminals faced with impossible re-entry obstacles, wars in far away lands, First Nations people on reservations, Youngsters fighting continued pollution killing us all, etc. WHAT RULE OF LAW?
Yes yes yes and yes. Thank you.
The rule of law: “With respect, it still exists. ”
Perhaps but only for the wealthiest among us have the financial means to fight their criminal cases/ prosecutions and avoid accountability. Justice doesn’t exist for the poor and perhaps never has…..
It does not exist. He is wo any consequences as will be his cohorts.
Yes. And Trump is just the stooge here. A criminal for sure. Vance, project 2025, Thiel, and Musk plus the atrocious names he is proposing for key posts will destroy more than the rule of law. I fear that as a country that we are so passive or complacent or in denial that we will not even protest
President Biden will host Trump tomorrow at the WH. He might as well be Neville Chamberlain inviting Hitler over for tea.
Agreed. Biden normalizing this is repugnant complicity. But he hasn't done much to protect democracy as bad as I can see.
In my opinion - when (not if) the Repub powers - whoever is handling Vance - decides the time has come for the orange fool to step down - that cult/base whatever will likely raise hell. This bunch has created this cult - making changes might not be all that simple. Whether thats good or bad for the rest of us I dont know.
They'll support Vance.
I wonder, though, who will get custody, in advance of that "step down time", of the nuclear codes. It keeps coming down to who's going to stop trump from doing whatever he wants. He'll never want to give up power, no matter how demented and addled he gets.
Could be - on the other hand - they really worship trump. Doesnt feel quite the same regarding Vance - especially if he has a hand in trump being set aside. I think it will happen - how it turns out - we will see.
Tragically
I'm not so sure you will be right in this, Maggie. That said, my prognostication skills are sorely tested in these time. For discussion sake though, consider that bft's position among the Fascists is the "bringer of End-times". I have broken bread and other things with the The CHINO Fascists (Christian In Name Only). They are looking to be raptured, and The Farce of Nature is the only one "anointed by God" (sorry dear girl) to usher in the End as they see it. And they will never consider anyone else.
Y’all haven’t seen that magats are now feeling dump is deep state? They eat their own!
Or leaning over to make sure everything is "equal" and "fair". We're leaning over to be kicked in the butt. And we will be.
I think what we're experiencing is one of the terrible trials any democracy has to endure in its lifetime, as a host of uninformed and uninterested citizens vote to remove what has always protected them. We've let it go and forgotten that any decent government takes a LOT of work from its citizens to keep it functioning. We may or may not be able to recover a decent government, given how determined the orange turd is to rule the world--indeed, to rule the solar system!! To rule the galaxy!! To rule the universe and fuck everyone in it and garner all the gold in the universe for his personal collection!!
Trump and followers' plans make me think about how Germany was in the 1930's. The German people didn't overthrow Hitler. He and his followers weren't voted out in the next election cycle. He held all the power. It took other countries' soldiers to liberate them. For right now, trump has complete control of all three branches of government. We don't know how much damage he'll be able to accomplish in two years, the time of the '26 midterms, nor if we're even going to have midterms, or any more elections for a while. I really doubt that he and his followers are planning on him leaving in a mere four years, knowing the broad, drastic changes they've bragged about and planned to make. So, I wonder where is a case study of a democratic country that fell to autocratic or non-democratic rule and regained its democracy with its own citizenry driving that change? Is this Poland in the 1980's? Other countries? How did they accomplish that change? So that's a good place for us to start to educate ourselves about how we can re-win then keep democracy in place.
Unfortunately, most of the countries which were able to rid themselves of Dictators did that through the Military, which caused follow-on problems. I asked my AI the same question a while back:
Historically, people have employed various methods to prevent dictators from assuming and maintaining control. Here are some key approaches with examples:
Nonviolent Resistance
Nonviolent resistance has been one of the most effective methods for challenging dictatorships. This approach focuses on undermining the dictator's power through civil disobedience, strikes, and other peaceful actions.
Examples:
In Serbia, the Otpor! student movement used creative, nonviolent tactics to help overthrow Slobodan Milosevic in 20001.
The People Power Revolution in the Philippines in 1986 used mass demonstrations and civil disobedience to oust Ferdinand Marcos1.
Economic Pressure
Economic actions can significantly weaken a dictator's grip on power by disrupting the financial support that sustains the regime.
Examples:
Boycotts and strikes, such as the merchants' "general strike" or withdrawal of bank deposits, can put pressure on the regime1.
International trade embargoes, like those imposed on apartheid-era South Africa, can isolate dictatorial regimes1.
Information Dissemination
Spreading accurate information and countering propaganda is crucial in challenging dictatorships.
Examples:
In Iran, citizens used social media to share information and organize protests during the 2009 Green Movement4.
Samizdat (self-published, clandestine literature) played a role in challenging Soviet control in Eastern Europe during the Cold War.
Building Alternative Institutions
Creating parallel social and political structures can undermine the dictator's authority and provide alternatives for citizens.
Examples:
The Solidarity movement in Poland established independent trade unions and other civil society organizations, eventually leading to the fall of the communist regime1.
In some Latin American countries, community organizations have provided services and governance structures outside of corrupt or authoritarian state control.
International Pressure
External pressure from other countries or international organizations can help weaken dictatorial regimes.
Examples:
International sanctions and diplomatic isolation contributed to the end of apartheid in South Africa.
The Helsinki Accords of 1975 provided a framework for human rights advocacy that helped erode Soviet control in Eastern Europe.
Education and Civic Engagement
Fostering an informed and engaged citizenry can prevent dictatorships from taking root.
Examples:
In many established democracies, civic education programs aim to create a responsible electorate that can resist authoritarian tendencies5.
Grassroots organizations in various countries work to educate citizens about their rights and democratic processes.
By employing these methods, often in combination, people have successfully challenged and overthrown dictatorial regimes throughout history. However, it's important to note that the process is often long and complex, requiring sustained effort and strategic planning.
Remember the quote: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."? I think it's backwards. Corruption yeilds power. Abolute corruption yields absolute power. Corrupt the rule of law yields absolute power quicker. And here we are. A democracy until January 20th. Enjoy your memory of it.
Uninformed and uninterested. Those who voted and the millions who couldn’t be bothered. Disgusting and disgraceful.
He doesn’t like the world either he just wants all the valuables.
Fair to say it's not a solid rule - but black Americans have known this QUITE a while...
Just say it! Judiciary works to protect the rich and powerful. Democracy is dead without a working judicial system. A nation of lawyers making laws is a nation of the rich lawyers protecting the rich.
Thank Merric Garland for all the nicey nices.
Merrick Garland woulda made a fine supreme court justice, but he failed America miserably in his role as a milquetoast AG.
I disagree. The jerk can’t seem to do the right thing. When push came to shove he was afraid of pushback. He has no spine, no integrity. A lot of hot air. Thank god he wasn’t put on SCOTUS. Our luck he’d vote with the 6 asshats.
I wouldn’t argue the point; I was trying to be just a bit generous in my loathing of his performance.
I tend to agree with you, Vicki. That said, I have to admit, that I just don't know what pressures, threats and opposition Garland was facing. Fact is he has blown it.
Judges get pretty much unlimited time to think, peruse old laws, turn over ideas, workable or not, then pass judgement without regard to consequences. If they so desire, they can dabble in philosophy, cloak stupid ideas in two-bit words, and nothing changes. For them. Thinking is not action. Biden hired a philosopher to clean up a cess pool. The end result now smells to high heaven.
At this point, I don’t know if he can run the deep fryer at McDonald’s
Thanks for your response. It's one of a few things that made me laugh out loud today. Mitch McConnell and Merrick Garland, brothers. It'd be neat to have statues of them and trump, and a few others, in a park owned by an individual that makes money to run it by selling various things that you can throw at their statues? Great idea.
Agreed
I thought that was true a year in when he didn't move forward, but I no longer think that. I think his allegiance is to the Federalist Society, period.
My thought exactly.
Absolutely correct!
The weakest AG in memory.
Your memory of a weak AG may be lost in the next iteration of America
Sadly. But likely very true.
So soon you forget Bill Barr! I haven't witnessed Merrick Garland lying outright to us. Bill Barr sure did. Of course when it was very late Barr finally got a wee bit of backbone.
That wasn't "backbone", Dirk. That was self-interest. Look how noble I am. Bet that shows up in his biography 200 years from now. The noble AG unwilling to accept the January 6th coup attempt that failed. Be interesting to speculate how much of that "backbone" would have survived if Trump had been successful.
And thank McConnell.
Not always so with the lawyers: what do you think Marc Elias is doing, and what Joyce herself did?
There were actually lawyers who opposed Hitler. They were killed. There were lawyers who opposed Putin. They're dead also. Trump is out for blood, and the GOP is going to help him.
I agree, this is exactly what he and his acolytes have been saying for many months. What an odd and unpleasant thing to try and attract voters with. And yet he did.
It makes no sense.
OK, Rita, you can sit there and glory in your despair and negativity. Please--go ahead and grovel to the turd. Nothing I say will be of any value whatsoever to you because you are determined to show me that you are stronger and more negative than I could ever be. Maybe so--but it's not worth my time to respond to your comments. Just leave it alone, huh???????
I'm stating facts. If we're going to succeed against Trump, we have to be clear headed about it. You commented earlier you hoped we would have elections in four years. Me, too. It would be a cold day in Hell before I ever groveled to Trump. I'm not trying to be stronger or more negative. I'm trying to be realistic in what we can actually do.
Bravo, Rita. Reality is a bitch. But that doesn't make it unreal.
Thank you, Sandra. I know how hard I fought for Kamala. I know how hard I tried to open people's minds to the truth. Although I'm not religious, I supported my Christian friends in the sense you live your life and I'll live mine. I worked with these people for years. Several remained friends after my retirement. And despite everything, despite all my pleadings, despite all the facts, they voted for Trump. It is a cult in every sense of the word. The fact the majority of white women and men voted for Trump gutted me. I feel betrayed in ways I can't even express. As a child I knew a French resistance fighter who was imprisoned and emigrated to the US after the war. He was a close friend to my family. When you have sounded the alarm for four years, donated, called, and written letter after letter, joined Never Trump resistance groups, been told you're fear mongering because you beg people to understand he is Hitler, and yet the best candidate you've seen in fifty years loses to this psychopath, it is a reality check.
Joyce, you're one of the people I respect most in the world. But you and the MSNBC crowd are sounding very platitudinous now, with statements like: "We have to hold tightly to as many of our laws, norms, and democratic values as we can, because we’re going to need them to get through this," and "this fight to reclaim longstanding principles we’ve taken for granted, like the fact that a criminal defendant judged guilty by a jury must face the consequences. But either we begin that work, or we abandon democracy entirely. I choose the path of hard work. . ." What does all of that mean? What "hard work" can we do that will make any difference at all in the face of 75 million people who voted for Donald Trump for a third time? I don't know what else I'd expect you to say, but I don't know how to fight any harder than I did, and we lost. This is who we are, now.
I'm not being platitudinous. When Trump starts separating families, engaging in mass deportations, firing career civil servants who flunk his loyalty test, preventing women and other from traveling to get medical care, we'd better hope we have some shreds of the rule of law and our norms left to rely upon. It is not going to be an easy four years. There are consequences to giving up on the rule of law and my judgment is we cannot afford them, although I understand and am sympathetic to people, like you, who are fed up. I just don't want to give up while there's still any possible fight for justice left.
We're not fed up, Joyce. We are resigned. Trump is not going to follow any "rule of law". He has immunity, and he's got the GOP behind him. They've all bent the knee. And what's worse, there will be at least 74 million people who will watch the bloody mass deportation as sport.
That is PRECISELY the first rule of combating tyranny: DONT OBEY IN ADVANCE.
We should all familiarize ourselves with Timothy Snyder’s “On Tyranny” and prepare to ACT.
It seems we have become Ukraine.
DON'T BE RESIGNED!! That's what an autocrat wants: obey him in advance, give up, and let him fuck us all up the ass.
And how exactly do you plan to stop Trump? Seriously.
There are still members of Congress and some federal judges, plus lawyers like Marc Elias, who can make the turdly plans harder to implement. The military can refuse to go out and kill American citizens the turd hates. We ca individually get out the info that is true to others. Seriously. Are you telling me that I should give up and kiss his stinky ass???? Really. If you obey in advance like that you are GUARANTEEING that he will mow us all down.
Did I say you should give up? Of course not. I'm looking forward to seeing what our military does. Everyone here has worked incredibly hard getting the "truth" out there. Retired military spoke out. Former Trump staff spoke out. People from the upper echelon of politics spoke out. Family members like Mary Trump spoke out. Hundreds of people spoke out. He's a convicted felon who incited an attack on our Capitol. And what did the White Evangelical Christians do? Vote for him. What did the Arab population in Michigan do? Vote for Jill Stein as a protest Vote. I can guarantee everyone commenting has put it on the line with family, friends and neighbors. We donated, we voted. So please realize we did get the info out there but alot of people didn't care and too many wanted Trump.
Why do you think the military won't do his bidding? What will it even look like with a tv newsreader at its head?
We ordinary folks are ignorant of what can be done. We can't conceive of what men who are after power can conceive of doing. If you want your eyes opened with a small investment of time, read these summaries about how Hitler consolidated his power. The first couple of sections are material many of us are already familiar with --violent acts against the Jews and then the night they killed all their political enemies. No, go past that and read what they did to the civil service and finally to the last section summarizing the Themes of Nazi Consolidation. It will only take you five minutes to read it. It will give you a lot to think about. I had seen pieces of this in other places, but this is the best summary I have seen. Make no mistake about it, people like Trump are using Hitlers play book page by page, and they are succeeding.
https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-nazi-rise-to-power/how-did-the-nazi-gain-power/#:~:text=On%20the%2023%20March%201933,conditions%20needed%20for%20dictatorial%20rule.
The problem is that we did see it and fight against it and lost in an apparently fair election. We're toast. We don't have the tanks needed. We're at his mercy already.
I know all of that. I have been preaching all of that for four years. None of this is new to me. The people who want Trump don't care.
What is the point? You might ask. Well first of all judging by the vote people are not convinced that disaster is possible. The alarm bells are ringing but who is listening? Some of us are listening but are we doing anything? We are still hoping I think that we are wrong and that things won't get that bad here. But unless we increase the energy behind our organizing to combat the anti-democracy forces, by the time we realize they are getting that bad it will be too late! I guess that's the point.
Professor Vance, I agree with you but I don't know what it means to fight, now! We all "fought" him every day of the last four years he was in office; we wrote to our Congressmen, we protested his heinous acts, we wrote letters to editors, we did our best to convince people in our lives that he poses an existential threat, we voted. He got far more votes last week than he did in 2016 and very close to the number he got in 2020. If anything, MAGA is growing in popularity. I don't want to "give up" either, but I also just can't spend the rest of my life fighting a tidal wave of fascism.
Betsy, I understand your angst, but you might consider a couple of things.
One, sooner or later (and very likely sooner) Trump is going put something in place that will harm enough of his adherents to force them to see enough of the truth to turn on him or at least away from him. Right now that may be his tariffs, but it will be something. And we need to be ready to help make use of that.
There is also the possibility, however slight it may seem now, that at the same point, enough Republican legislators will finally feel they’ve caved enough, and that their re-elections just aren’t as important anymore as preserving our Republic.
Second, and I know this may also seem platitudinous as well, but American is a long game, and this is not the first time we’ve faced political, moral, and emotional turmoil. I can’t know your age, but if you’d been alive and aware at the end of1968, a truly awful year, when for a time I really did think we might come apart at the seams you might see that daylight, however hazy may not be out of sight. Or in October of 1962 when we waited for thirteen terrible days with bated breath for resolution or Armageddon. We’re still here.
The final phrase of the Declaration comes to mind. “And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
Yeah, it’s a bit sappy and it's certainly idealistic and there’s more than a little bravado in it. Sometimes protecting our Republic has meant taking on the best military force in the western world with a bunch of half-trained farmers and artisans led by a Virginia planter who had at one point wanted nothing more than to be a part of that military. Sometimes it just means continuing to be an American citizen who understands who we were meant to be and is unwilling to give up on us, even when millions of us just don’t seem to get it.
Likely as not, I won’t live to see how this turns out. And there are times when I think I’ve lived my whole life trying to see my way through one damn storm after another. But I also spent over 40 of those years teaching American history to sixth and seventh graders and despite our failures among the way, we remain, as the very best of us once noted, ‘the last best hope of earth” . I’m not willing to bet against that.
Thanks. I appreciate your post. I think this is unlike any of our past challenges, and no one ever said the pendulum can't. just. break. Our democracy had a good run--far longer than any of the Founders would have predicted--and what is happening is heartbreaking.
May I suggest you watch Rachel Maddow's Ultra 2. We DID have a time as bad as this, for sure. We just don't realize it. She discovered it. You'll come away with a new appreciation for what we can live though. It's a podcast easy to find and exciting /shocking to learn about. That's why she made it.
If history is any indication, he will burn it all down, and if any of us survive, we can rebuild.
The problem is the MAGAs like being abused.
I suspect that it’s more that they thrive on being abused rather than actually liking it.
Splitting hairs
I lived through those times. There were still honorable people on both sides. That is the difference.
Ummmm, no. To wit:
As of this writing, according to CNN, Trump leads Harris by 3.2 million votes, or 50.2% to 48.1% with 95% of the votes counted. With millions of votes left to count, including in very blue parts of California, that margin will close. As of this morning, Nate Silver even suggested that when all is said and done, Trump could end up with under 50% of the vote, with a winning margin of under 1.5%.
The above information doesn't fit the Chicken Little (sorry Joyce Vance chickens - I know you wouldn't indulge in hysteria) Sky is falling hysteria. Just give it a rest, please.
One thing, "Trump is on track for a smaller popular vote victory than Hillary Clinton won in 2016". Ezra Klein. Again, just give it a rest.....I could keep on doing the research, but why should I?
One more:
Compare this with four years ago, when Joe Biden—whom Trump never would never have conceded had a “mandate”—won by 7 million votes and 4.4% of the vote.
All of this information from The Big Picture.
All of this is true. The problem is he's going to be President with no guardrails and is consumed with revenge plans. Worse, the GOP supports him. Today Trey Gowdy was on FOX News talking about changing the constitution so Trump could remain in office. The key will be our military. Will they keep to their pledge to our constitution or follow Trump. This is the biggie. So whether he won by a field goal or four touchdowns, he has the ball.
Keep on listening to the MAGAmonstrosities. That's exactly what they want us to do. Of course, Trey Gowdy was on Fox, that is the only entertainment channel which will air the lies, fabrications, and profanities that the MAGA party vomits. As for the football analogy? Nope. He doesn't have the ball. First and foremost, he's ill, it's just a matter of time, a short time at that, that he will drop dead. Then you have the lickspittle Vance to deal with.....he's too weak to do anything but fold, the infighting in the MAGA party will be making the odd makers in Las Vegas heads spin.
I don't watch FOX News. A clip of Gowdy dropped in my feed. But after this horrific loss, we need to know what they are saying because too many people listen to them. Know the enemy. And people I respect have reported that the influence of FOX and the Right wing Maga played a huge role in helping Trump to win. Some way we have to find a way to counter that.
It is a tidal wave of MAGA that isn't going away any time soon.
But we need to remember that the tidal wave is constructed upon, and depends upon, hate, racism, misogyny, envy, and fear. Yes, those are fundamental emotional states of many human beings, but the actions the orange turd will take will eventually turn upon the MAGA fools, too. It's inevitable, and these people will NOT be happy.
Trump could care less about those who voted for him. He got what he wanted and he won't worry about re-election because he cannot be.
Nate, owned by Peter Thiel, Silver?
That’s a great Substack.
Betsy, I fought as best I could, too. I am angry at the millions of people who rolled onto their backs to present their bellies in submission and didn’t vote at all. I do think that none of us who fought back should “ go gentle into that good night” we need to continue to rage. Rest yourself. Then get back up!
I do WISH that everyone would stop pointing fingers. We can all agree that certain people let us down, but, now is the time to reorganize. Look for places that may help us hold onto our Country. I know that we can. We beat a King, we can beat this imposter. All the naysaying is wasting energy. I am older, but, I will NOT GIVE UP ON OUR COUNTRY !!!
It may be time for self-reflection - who was feeling left out? Why?
Do you need to take time to assimilate what has happened? How you are feeling? Then, take that time. Be good to yourself, rest, because, you /we will be needed soon.
Just my opinion
The tidal wave of fascism will loose momentum when the people who voted for it start to realize what they have done. I don't think they really understand fascism but they are about to.
You’d better! The other choice is much worse
Joyce, what can we, as individuals do? Anything practical, or is it too soon to know?
Join Indivisible, Third Act (if a senior), your local Dems, talk with friends, write letters to the editor, post on Blue Sky, read the books that will lead to your understanding of our situation. I recommend Timothy Snyder's _On Tyranny_ and _On Freedom_; Ruth Ben-Ghiat's _Strongmen_; Anne Applebaum's _The Twilight of Democracy_ and _Autocracy, Inc._; Jason Stanley's _How Fascism Works_ and _Erasing History_. That's just for starters.
What I’ve done and am doing. Still, and refusing and resisting. Bearing witness. I’ve been doing this work locally for forever (I’m 76) including teaching Havel, Klima, Fanon back in the day. Keep pushing back, write those letters. I’m in Indivisible leadership in my state, where a couple of us focused on school board elections. We changed the school board makeup from pro-trump anti-lgbtq members to a fully liberal, anti-book banning board. We’re now on to the library board, working a tough crowd and election denying oversight. Work locally; it’s harder and not as sexy as the big battles. But you, too, can get your name on a Breitbart list for signing on to teach honest history, and have your school called to have you fired. We did this, and I am OLD, folks, OLD and tired.
I would like to protect, hide, transport, people who are Hispanic and have lived in my State of California, working, paying taxes, raising families, attending college, working where others would not. When those pissy trumpian guys start to round up people without cause, I won't be able to just stand by.
Ask yourself now what your red lines are. What actions will you protest? Which ones might you look away from?
Are there community groups you can join now to see if they will become a source of strength and eventually, resistance?
What about joining a political group - if there are any where you live. (Where I currently live all there is are Republican groups. I’m working on moving.)
I’m sure others have more ideas.
Ideas will come, pass them along.
Thanks Joyce for your inspiration today and every day 🕯️🗽💜🕊️🌷🇺🇸
Thanks Joyce for the facts. A chilling week but inspiring that so many of us are paying attention and making connections to find a path forward. You are tremendously inspirational and I am so grateful 🌻🕯️🗽
Yes Joyce, it will likely be a bloody, bare knuckle fight. But not only is the justice system (despite an Imperial Court) still largely intact and populated by practitioners who still believe in the rule of law and the Constitution, but the gang that couldn't shoot straight has unlikely improved its aim. Just added some new corrupt and/or incompetent gang members. Loyalty is the only criterion.
And remember the election really depended on those who DIDN’T vote… those who will soon be coming out of their hibernation and realize just what they have enabled.
I don’t think I’m naive to say that many will experience a wake-up call when they realize they’ve shot themselves in the foot… and it’s up to us to point that out to them starting NOW. I also don’t think Jd will command the hero worship of those in the Trump cult. He’s not at all likable.. and neither is Elon despite his $. Leave “twitter and let’s get behind dependable (non billionaire supported) news to spread the truth.
If we give up on the rule of law we are saying yes to authoritarianism, we are acquiescing before being forced to. I'm fed up, but I still believe in fighting to retain what we believe in.
Wait a minute. I did not and have not given up on the rule of law. I am stating the fact that it no longer applies to everyone. This is not the fault of every day people! This is the fault of those in the judiciary who have made this possible!
Might I say again: "What Rule of Law". Even you, Joyce, our Hero can't get away with that level of Bull-Shit. America has long been a joke when it comes to "Rule of Law". Maybe, as a person in the "Profession", you can't see the forest for the trees (or chickens), but there hasn't been rule of law for so many of us, I would even add the word 'EVER' in America. I love my adopted country and its diverse people. It has afforded me so much, and I will resist for her. This latest return to "Greatness" is such crap though, that even the "good" lawyers should be ashamed of what their professional colleagues have done to extend the decay. We have systematic discrimination and legal repression throughout our land, and we are now going to "ride that rot" until the Maggots have cleansed it all into the form of a Reich lead by a freaking lunatic who takes advantage every day that our "rule of law" does not protect the weak, timid or disadvantaged from the predators.
The thing is Joyce, you will be ok no matter what. I have two pre-existing conditions, and as a single-income earner, with my own business, I'm staring down losing not only coverage for those two diseases, but my, already insanely expensive, health insurance completely. 99% of us are terrified and the same old over intellectualized tropes are being trotted out. And they remind me of all of the books I read about the Holocaust growing up where German Jews said they would never do this to us. Well, they have been, and they are, for decades.
(((Joyce)))
Donald Trump’s margin in the popular vote was 1.5% in a year where an anti incumbent wave swept the world after the economic disruptions of the pandemic. Buyer’s remorse and voter backlash against Trump will be strong. Down ballot races in many states held back a MAGA tide. I’m choosing to hang in there and fight at the local and state level and prepare for 2026. But yeah, it’s been a rough week.
MAGA will never admit their mistake; if anything, they'll dig in until there's nothing left worth saving.
We've got a lot of very smart people--people like Lawrence Tribe and Jamie Raskin, and Joyce Vance, and multitudes of others, who will be fighting to save our Democracy!
EDIT I just found out about a group called Indivisible that has chapters all over the country, and started fighting Trump and his lackeys when he got elected the first time. They seem to have a strong handle on how to defeat him. I've signed up to work with my local chapter of Indivisible (Concord MA) and I would recommend looking into doing the same. Just google.
Yes, we do. And that is something to be very grateful for. But what do you think they can do now that they haven't been doing since 2016?
81 million people fired Trump in 2020. I don't think we have a choice but to be strong and fight. Fascists want us to despair. We can find opportunities at every level of our society to work with others. We have faced chasms bigger than this before; the movements that emerged did not succeed without a struggle. Tomorrow, at 8:30 pm, if anyone is interested or curious, Indivisible is holding a national zoom to discuss resisting Trump 2.0.
I don't know, exactly, but I'm keeping my eyes open, maintaining confidence, and reading and listening. I don't expect anything to be obvious nearly this quickly.
And as for "...since 2016" we haven't been in the same situation. 2016-2020, we swept the midterms and then won the presidential election, and there weren't any worries about whether we'd have elections. Now we're worried, which is why I allude to people like Larry Tribe et al.
I own Tribe's seminal "Constitutional Law" tome and have read every one of nearly 800 pages. I love Tribe. But I don't know what you expect him to do that he hasn't done already. Fix our public education system even as Trump dismantles it in favor of vouchers and hanging the Ten Commandments in classrooms? School the Supreme Court justices he already schooled? Battle his way onto Fox newscast sets?
And we have to continue to support them.
MAGA may not admit their mistake but a lot of people who voted him don't necessarily identify as MAGA. I, as Dr. Quest above states, believe that Trump will overstep in a massive way and there will be a backlash and it will be fairly quick. We've seen it happen in Michigan locally with extremist local candidates. Trump also promised everything to everyone and there's no way he will be able to deliver. The best thing we can do is be there to provide reasonable options once the voters realized they've been had.
Maybe they don't identify as MAGA, but at this point, anyone who votes for him IS.
This a million times over. If you voted for a convicted felon who was impeached twice and incited the January 6th attack on our Capitol, you are MAGA.
YUP. This counts especially strongly for those voters who never follow politics and yet voted for him. That's a total abdication of responsibility for critical thinking.
My point those is that they may not admit their mistake but they will vote for something different next time. I don't understand the fickleness because I'm not, but it appears a lot of people go back and forth. I think looking at the AOC/Trump voters or the Bernie/Trump voters may be useful.
Totally agree 👍
Watching from outside: the hardwork is to not let things go by unnoticed. To call them out and not let the norms slide by unnoticed. To file suit when it makes sense. Create new ways rto approach issue. In short, stay in the game, in face of these abjectly evil, greedy people. It's easier when you are standing up FOR something. In this moment, all that can be done is to stand against something. And that would seem to me to be mightly, mighty hard.
I am a USAF veteran officer who would not now take the commissioning oath. We are not who we were even ten years ago and I want nothing to do with this. It's heartbreaking; my heart is broken. But this is not what I swore to support and defend with my life.
I consider I am still under that Oath.
Isn’t it to the Constitution of the US?
Absolutely. "To support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. . ."
One of the goals of Project 25 is to change that. Trump has made adamantly clear he expects our military to support him not the constitution.
That’s not happening. Military people are pretty serious about their commitments.
That is so important, and I think there are a lot of people who don't realize that. Thanks!
I agree--but the turd will appoint an overseer of the Pentagon who will replace the senior officials in the military with those who kiss the turdly ass, and that may make all the difference.
What you swore to, shall rise from the dust again.
“For many people, the rule of law has become a laughing stock, a joke. But hear me out on this—abandoning the rule of law is not the path forward for us. Insisting on it, demanding that it still apply, is.” ~ Joyce Vance
Could we contact Judge Merchan and express our concern for the rule of law? How can we do that?
While he was president, McConnell said try him in a court of law and refused to impeach him.
Then his attorneys delayed, delayed, delayed until it was too close to the election. He was to be sentenced after the election, which apparently they didn’t protest.
Now it’s after the election. He is not president. He should be sentenced. Trump should not have been allowed to run in the first place.
How can we contact the Judge?
YES!!!
I share your frustration. I cannot abide having my ideals and the entire concept of the social contract, let alone the foundational principle of my country, shit upon and trampled by a convicted felon who appears on the verge of slithering out of any accountability thanks to a corrupting of the judicial system by mere guttersnipe politicians and ideologues wearing black robes.
I recognize the danger of anger, that it is easily manipulated and perverted to inappropriate or unjust ends. Nevertheless, a deep anger at what's happening now and what has been allowed to happen over the last several years burns white hot within me. So my challenge is not to extinguish it but to channel it and have it fuel productive work going forward.
The only answer is to build and join in community, and to resist, in every way possible, as we can according to each of our individual lights. Peacefully, lawfully, within the bounds of human decency, and all while preserving one's mental and physical health, but resist. I cede nothing -- the other side wants us to feel defeated and powerless -- and I am not going down without the best fight I can put together. This is not how I had planned to spend my remaining relatively few years, but here we are. Save what we can, work to restore decency and honesty and compassion to our government, and start laying the groundwork for a thorough rebuild. I will not go gentle into that good night.
Betsy,
Intellectually I hear Joyce and don’t disagree. However, you have nailed my feelings perfectly. Joyce gave us a pep talk. But it is empty because we live in country of short sighted voters, uninformed voters, and disinterested voters. When they start hurting perhaps, just perhaps they will open their eyes and MINDS. The damage is being done in this present moment.
Other countries have overthrown fascist regimes. Opportunities to advance our cause will emerge, even if they offer only one step forward or if they block a further incursion. We don't know how long it will take to reach our goal of a fully realized democracy under the rule of law. If there's no way forward right now, rest, wait, watch, learn.
All right! I would like to hear about some of these countries!
For starters, I'm reading Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit. And Joyce Vance recommended Vaclav Havel's essay, The Power of the Powerless, linked here: https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23
It is a dreary path forward. I simply cannot accept the undeniable fact that this moron will again, get off scott free. He will gather his mean spirited sycophants and destroy our nation.
It gets me crazy to know that HE will be the POTUS when we celebrate 250 years of our democracy. What an incomprehensible situation we are in! And he will be POTUS for the upcoming Olympics. My god he has no clue, no understanding of the effort that drives these worldwide athletes. I am so sad just to think about this.
Today I was thinking how this creature dominated our lives in the 4 years of his presidency and most of Biden's presidency and now we look at another 4 years--as he dismantles the judicial system and indeed democracy too. Holding him to account has been impossible and will be impossible with this Supreme Court--they have given him license to do as he pleases. I want to believe in the rule of law but it's getting harder every day.
You sound like you're giving up too soon on the judicial system and Democracy. Alot of us will be fighting to preserve both.
I'm not giving up David. I am exhausted by our failure.
We haven't failed. We're just getting going! Sleep well, then, and wake up refreshed. And read those people who are being more optimistic than a lot of the commenters in Joyce's substack. Both optimism and pessimism can be contagious. So look for the former. If you have optimistic friends or an optimistic significant other, seek them out! If you're in the Boston area, and you need someone to buck you up, let me know. And take a little time to do something that gives you energy and/or makes you feel good. Have a good book handy. I recommend Tribe, by Sebastian Junger, as it gives the reader a gut level sense of how important the people in our lives are, and how well people can work together when their goal with the work is extremely important, as to survival. I consider it the most important book I've read in my 50 year adult life. (It's a quick read--2-3 hours, but an excellent read.)
And after you read Tribe, read Alfred Lansing's Endurance, about how Ernest Shackleton and ALL OF HIS 28 men made it back to civilization after Antarctic ice chewed up and spat out their boat. They had to find all their stuff on the boat, put it on the three lifeboats, pull the lifeboats 10 miles over the ice to where they finally reached the ocean. They sailed to an island well to the north, where the men remained for months before they took off again, sleeping under the lifeboats... It took them 15 months from Antarctic ice to civilization, being cold all that time, eating whatever the cold waters offered--for quite a while it was penguins--sailing the worst waters on the planet. Endurance is very hard to put down.
Having read Tribe first, you'll understand at gut level how well the men worked together, and how they were able to make it back to civilization. As well as how we're going to be able to do what we have to do to maintain our Democracy.
Yes! Rebuild your strength & resolve.
I’m in!
The media couldn't leave Donald alone. He was always in the shadows during the Biden presidency.
Agree—I sometimes felt that Biden was more in the shadows.
Joyce, thank you to you and your legal sisters for staying on top of everything. That he is getting off with a free pass makes me despair for our country and humanity. Your voice is one of few I can tune into at the moment. I don't know how you are able to stick it out but I am grateful. So grateful. And I'm not the only one, I'm certain.
I'm grateful for all of y'all, and getting to read people's smart and thoughtful comments. I know I still have a lot of processing to do, and it's made so much more comforting by being with a community of people trying to work through the same issues. This really sucks.
I’m in agreement totally. Joyce is a treasure.
Take care of yourself Joyce!
Merrick Garland is an abject failure. If the rule of law is lost the blame will likely be placed at his feet. Allowing insurrectionists to roam free may well have doomed the USA. Pardoned Jan 6 convicts may well be the new Gestapo.
Blue governors and AGs might be our only hope.
There are lots of people who will be leading us in our efforts to preserve Democracy and the Rule of Law--people like Lawrence Tribe, Jamie Raskin, Joyce Vance, Robert Hubbell, and many more. As well as blue governors and AGs.
The problem is people are being flooded with disinformation on “X” and “Twitter”. Somehow we need to get a law stating they can’t be spreading disinformation. It is not allowed on Nextdoor.com. How can it be allowed on “X” and Twitter?
Trump won because of disinformation. His lies, the Russian election interference flooding social media with more lies, and lies coming from his MAGA supporters. The people consumed and believed the lies. Should the Democrats fight them with bigger lies?
How are we going to turn this around? We are too nice. We play by the rules. It didn’t work.
Marlo nails it! That so many voted for a contemptible man with contemptible policies and a history of despicable actions is because the first amendment has been disfigured into a license to stuff pathetic minds with lies:
Lies about medicine, climate science, crime rates, immigration, personal rights and liberties, etc. See the November 1, 2024 issue of Science which featured a collection of articles on the research on misinformation and disinformation. What's missing is a well-funded, well coordinated and aggressive assault on the dissemination of misinformation and an even more aggressive frontal attack on those creating intentional disinformation.
When a $787.7 mil fine doesn’t even slow down Fox and civil judgements don’t slow down Trump we are truly in a dark age. Maybe Democracy Docket needs to shift focus to suing all the liars over and over until they are bankrupt. The only perp so far that appears close to bankruptcy is Rudy. Lying has to cost them billions.
Garland blew the federal criminal prosecutions. Here’s hoping states like NY, Georgia and Arizona continue their prosecutions.
Thanks for the excellent comment, and the reference!
All true.
Somehow, we'd have to figure out how to attract conservative people to a new social media institution that we would come up with, that would have real information. We used to have requirements that all media that talked about politics had to give equal time to both Democrats and Republicans. This was called the Fairness Doctrine, and Ronald REagan, may he burn in Hell, ended it.
There also used to be a lot of local newspapers, including in the hinterlands, but these have pretty much fallen on hard times.
We need to figure out how to reach these people with something they are attracted to (that would have been local news in a lot of cases) and also give them good information on politics.
Nah. You can't win a totally asymmetric battle. Numerous wonderful individuals and organizations have already tried to disseminate facts. That has been a total failure. We are doomed without a serious attack on lies.
What do you envision for a serious attack on lies? How could that work? If that's what we need to do, we need to figure out how to do it. To that end, we'll need people who are monitoring their sources so we have the lies we need to attack.
A very well-funded “Facts Matter” organization should be created with full-time attorneys, media experts, etc. The liars should be immediately sued after they lie, on whatever grounds possible. The liars should be identified publicly and with every means possible the message should be “Larry (or Linda) Liar is trying to manipulate you, by lying to you about (crime, immigration, science, etc). Don’t fall for it.” That should be followed by an appropriate recommendation to get the facts, such as the FBI website. The Facts Matter org should go after the liars in any way possible. A billboard should go up near their church or country club, or home calling them out for their lies. Flood social media with truth-telling bots. Call out newspapers which failed to make it a headline that, for example, a talking head on Fox lied about…whatever they lied about. All out war should be waged against the originators of disinformation. There must be a high price for lying.
I don’t know if this has ever been established as factual, but the apocryphal story about a drop in the crime rate in NYC is that it started when they cracked down on littering by making it clear that NO violations of the law would be ignored. With that in mind, the Facts Matter org should go after misleading promotion of useless nutritional supplements and other products that don’t work, the liars of Creationism, corporations guilty of greenwashing, AND must also go after leftists who exaggerate or bend the facts (although it sure seems like that will be needed infrequently compared to the other “side”). Speed matters. The Facts Matter org must be nimble because it’s been pointed out that lies get around the world in the time it takes for facts to cross the street. And repetition matters. The liars know this. Trump and his army of liars just repeat lies over and over and over again until they seem true to the numbskulls. Facts must be repeated endlessly in social media posts, on signs, billboards, paid video pieces, etc. But almost above all, the Facts Matter org should loudly criticize all corners of the media each and every time they fail to make it a very big headline that, for example, “SENATOR MAGA MCGOO LIES ABOUT IMMIGRATION.” Why is it not very big news when such lies are told? If truth and facts are important to having a healthy society, then potentially influential lies should be THE STORY each time one is told. Sure, that might get repetitive, but that’s the point. After the Very Big Headlines every single day for 100 days is that Trump lies about, say, election security, then it just very well might sink into numbskulls’ heads that Trump lies about election security. Each and every lie told on Fox “News” must be exposed, along with the message that watching Fox will result in the viewer being deceived. A Facts Matter org must do everything possible to get people to turn away from watching right wing propaganda media outlets. I don’t think that even MAGA morons like being lied to.
...unless liberals and Democratic leaders grow a spine, that's wishful thinking at best. That's exactly what I thought too since the era of Ronald Reagan until this election. Democrats failed to rise to the challenge. With all three branches of government firmly controlled by the Trump/Musk/Putin party, the national Democratic Party will be no more effective than the Democratic Party of Alabama has been in confronting the Trump forces.
Perhaps AG Kamala will join in when her current job expires.
She certainly has the energy to be a leader in this effort.
And how do we protect them when the Gestapo comes for them?
Don't bet on Blue state governors. Trump's immigrant eviction czar has already warned the Blue states to get the hell outta the way.
Assuming that governors will simply be steamrolled is what they call "obeying in advance"...
Make no mistake, they will be steamrolled, no matter their resistance. Trump, his DOJ, and his police state will assure that.
I’m not so sure
I don't think he can just go do a police state.
He has so far
Tell that to Newsom.
I absolutely believe that Judge Merchon should not dismiss Trump’s conviction. Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts by a jury of his peers. Any evidence that should be excluded because of the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling is minimal and will not affect the outcome. Judge Merchon can sentence Trump and then stay the sentence until after Trump leaves office. That will not interfere with his ability to govern but will insure that, in at least one case, Trump is not above the law. There needs to be some accountability.
The rule of law no longer exists. All the three branches of government checks and balances we were taught was, and is, a sham. The "Supreme Court" has given the American public an imperial presidency. The legal and judicial systems have failed; the legislative branch is now captured by the executive branch and will slavishly do the executive's bidding. The so called rule of law will be applied by a bought and paid for judiciary with the help the oligarchs that shower favors on the judges. In short, the American democracy we were all taught, beginning in junior high civic classes, is a myth.
Slight correction. It wasn't a myth; it's just over. Remember Franklin's warning: "A republic, if you can keep it." Democracies require an educated electorate and we have graduated illiterate kids for decades, dumbing down every level of public education until those aspects of democracy you listed are meaningless to too many citizens. The Founders would be very surprised that we lasted this long.
I respectfully disagree in part. It was a myth Benjamin Franklin warned us about. He witnessed the weaknesses of the other Founder's creation. I agree that public education has been a process of dumbing down students, but that dumbing down has been driven by segregationist, right wing extremists like the Dixiecrats that infested and infected the GOP and it's plantation mentality of strong backs and weak minds.. The south is rising again, and its name is Donald John Trump's MAGA.
Not sure where we disagree.
We don't disagree, but it's just a matter of personal perspective.
All this reminds me of when Hitler was elected. People really thought Germany would be ok; they would be ok. Hitler didn't start out gassing people. It was a slow, steady process. Remember Trump is enthralled by Hitler. The MAGA attitude is Hitler was a good guy - "he just went too far".
It is my opinion that Trump is running out of time .. mentally and physically
Thank you Joyce. Such a heavy sigh, so many times each day now.
I am 1,000% disgusted.
I’m glad I don’t have granddaughters to whom I must explain why half of our country wanted a rapist in the WH. It doesn’t get much uglier than this
I am just so flabbergasted that all it took for someone to blast a hole in all our traditions, norms, and requirements was to just refuse to abide by them.
Who knew it was so simple that a nervy idiot could do it??
All our systems have proven to be utterly toothless. Their careful long game since Reagan has paid off.
Not to mention the fact that this is always who America really was: money and white supremacy.
Ironic yesterday that the kid who stole a few secrets got 15 years and the jerk who sold us all out got the WH.
All it took was a lot of lawyers and a lot of money - assuming he bothered to pay the lawyers...
well let's see, you get life for financial crimes, for murder you get 15 years(or less) and can be parolled, so yeah
You only get life for financial crimes if you're poor and/or Black. And you only get 15 years or less for murder if you're white. ESPECIALLY if you're white and racist.
bernie maddov got life. I guess cause' he stole from rich wht ppl....
The work will indeed be dreary and hard, but I hope enough of us can find the strength to be joyful warriors 💔💜
As it relates to the law, and in light of what now seems to be another ultra slim majority for Rs in the house, are there any really good resources out there to help us understand how far executive orders can really go? Additionally, any insight on what this forming miasma of a cabinet could really do without a united house and senate to help them would be much appreciated.
It's nauseating to think that our "best case" scenario might be that they all fight too much to get anything done, but I am curious about what they could accomplish on executive orders and other non-congressional things alone?
I think it may be that we let the imperial presidency go to far for too many years so trump was just a final leap. The world is too complex now for one person to have so much power. Now we see why. It is also why lifetime appointments are also outmoded.