It was quite a day. We’ve noticed this before, that there are a lot of legal issues and rulings on a lot of different fronts, all coming to a head simultaneously. Many, but not all of them, involve Trump. Tonight, rather than looking at each situation in detail, we’ll try to extract the most important or interesting things we learned from each one.
"What a great way of encapsulating where the country was before Trump—we all just assumed that people voted and it worked out. No more, and that’s thanks in no small part to the role his client and his co-defendants played in the 2020 election."
We really do need to thank Trump for waking us up from our slumber before it was too late, and for educating us that policy differences create opponents, not enemies - that as long as both opponents believe in the underlying truths and foundation of a democratic constitutional republic, all is well. The enemies are those like Trump and the MAGAts, who don't believe.
Good grief, what a day. In spite of all those "wins" I can't quite accept trump will ever pay for his actions. Based on how many times he has skirted the law, I fear he'll slide by in these cases too. Yes, he lost badly in the E. Jean Carroll case, but he has a bit of history losing civil cases, I want to see him lose these criminal cases.
He's one lucky guy, drawing such a biased judge as Cannon in the one trial that everyone agrees is a slam dunk. She seems poised to not only allow his delays, but to throw a few delays of her own in along the way while lawyering for trump from the bench.
I'm burnt out here in the eleventh hour and even amongst these wins, feel defeated.
The ex-president has tried the patience of us all and manipulated our justice system at every juncture.
As for Gov Abbott, I'm so glad he's being ordered to remove those inhumane barriers. Will he have to remove them while working through the appeal process?
And finally, let's raise a glass to the lovely lady getting on Navarro's last nerve.
Thank you. Civil Discourse is the first place I go each morning and your discussions are, for me, a deep dive into the complex intricacies of legal process. Please do not ever doubt that you have made a difference.
Thank you. It's fairly exhausting, but it seems like progress is being made. I still wonder why others who refused to comply with a subpoena have not been held accountable, but that's another question!
What annoys me in all Trump's trials is his ability to go hat in hand to his MAGA's who, unable to think - only to feel, will pay for his defense. He won't suffer one little bit. All that and unlimited time mugging for the cameras.
Thanks and praise to the Federal Judge who ordered Abbott to remove the deadly objects he has placed in the Rio Grande. I realize it is a Federal waterway but it is also an international waterway. Mexico would have the legal right to attack those objects on the grounds the waterway is as much theirs as ours.
Smith’s cooperating witness, of course, suffers from a vulnerability to cross-exam attack on the issue that, “you lied before, didn’t you,” it would seem. BUT, were Trump’s def Attys to pursue that line, methinks the Govt would have a field day eliciting testimony regarding the circumstances in which he initially lied -- “counsel made me do it!” -- and why he came clean -- “I didn’t want to go to jail forTrump by continuing to lie,”. Tough strategic decision for Attys who may have suborned perjury.....
When the movie, or as several movies are made, I would like to play Sidney Powell. I can fake a Texas accent and my voice is as deep as hers. Hire a few drag queen make-up artists to do make up and I’m set to play her.
Does anyone else find the irony delicious: Hunter Biden's long awaited indictment is for breaking a law that the many in the GOP would consider to be a violation of his 2d Amendment Rights?
(We don't know if that's ALL that's being considered, but even if it is only part....)
"The only issue left to decide is damages—how much more money Trump will have to pay Carroll. Her lawyer can ask for punitive damages, sufficient to punish Trump and to prevent a repeat of what he did after the last trial—making additional defamatory comments the day after the verdict. That could be a very high number."
Whew. A lot going on. Thanks for making it understandable to we non-lawyers. I love that defendants decide to tell the truth after they ditch the lawyer T pays for and then get realistic advice about what their future looks like. Yo, Nauta and Oliveira - you might want to think about that.
My schadenfreude moment? "The Judge cited Trump's “advanced age” as justification for moving forward, ...". Bet that got under T's skin.
First, the obsession with appeals. The cases need to be properly tried of course so that they can be sustained on appeal but the appeal is not the important part. Get the convictions now. Given the ages of the parties involved and the closeness of the election, it doesn’t really matter if the cases are sustained on appeal or not. Natural causes will ultimately take care of these cases. It’s more important to get the convictions.
Second, in the Carol cases and Cohen’s upcoming deposition of trump, DOJ has taken the inexcusable positions, corrected now (voluntarily in Carroll finally but by court order in Cohen) that trump’s actions were in the course and scope of his employment. Those positions by DOJ have been absurd from the beginning. It is very hard to understand what is wrong with DOJ. We have to survive trump and DOJ (not Smith’s actions). In my opinion, both of these were bad and inexcusable positions taken by Garland. Who knows what else he may do?
Third, with the Georgia Attorney General, we are now seeing the dangers of the RICO cause of action and its loosey-gooseyness (Oh, heck, we were just talking at bridge club.). Its use against Cop City protesters may stand. My bet is we will see more cases brought by the Republican attorneys general. This shows what a dangerous and unbridled cause of action RICO can become. At least the wonderful lady protesting at Navarro’s press conferences will not likely have to worry as she appears to be on her own. This is pure speculation, but I wonder if the dangers of unbridled RICO may be part of why Smith has not brought RICO causes of action.
Fourth, the deathly Rio Grand barriers and the US failure immediately to remove them. Texass has no right to impede the waters of the United States (whatever those are after the last horrible Supreme Court case). Biden should have ordered the Corps of Engineers to remove the barriers. Save lives first and then fight with Texass after the fact if necessary. It is inexcusable to allow the harm to continue. It reminds me of the spring gun laws (setting up a gun to kill when a door is opened). If the fight is lost ultimately, highly doubtful, at least it may have saved lives.
There's a lot of hopeful news here! I must admit to taking extra joy from Peter Navarro finally getting justice. What a freak. He needs medication. The lady following him around with the signs is hilarious! ❤
Things That Happened Today
"What a great way of encapsulating where the country was before Trump—we all just assumed that people voted and it worked out. No more, and that’s thanks in no small part to the role his client and his co-defendants played in the 2020 election."
We really do need to thank Trump for waking us up from our slumber before it was too late, and for educating us that policy differences create opponents, not enemies - that as long as both opponents believe in the underlying truths and foundation of a democratic constitutional republic, all is well. The enemies are those like Trump and the MAGAts, who don't believe.
Kudos to the judge who ruled against Governor Abbott.
Good grief, what a day. In spite of all those "wins" I can't quite accept trump will ever pay for his actions. Based on how many times he has skirted the law, I fear he'll slide by in these cases too. Yes, he lost badly in the E. Jean Carroll case, but he has a bit of history losing civil cases, I want to see him lose these criminal cases.
He's one lucky guy, drawing such a biased judge as Cannon in the one trial that everyone agrees is a slam dunk. She seems poised to not only allow his delays, but to throw a few delays of her own in along the way while lawyering for trump from the bench.
I'm burnt out here in the eleventh hour and even amongst these wins, feel defeated.
The ex-president has tried the patience of us all and manipulated our justice system at every juncture.
As for Gov Abbott, I'm so glad he's being ordered to remove those inhumane barriers. Will he have to remove them while working through the appeal process?
And finally, let's raise a glass to the lovely lady getting on Navarro's last nerve.
As ever, thank you Joyce for this wonderful report. And a safe and resting night to you and everyone around you.
I never get tired of him losing!
Thank you. Civil Discourse is the first place I go each morning and your discussions are, for me, a deep dive into the complex intricacies of legal process. Please do not ever doubt that you have made a difference.
"because, trump claimed, he was a federal employee just doing his job when he made his ugly, untrue comments about Carroll." FOFL!!!!
Thank you. It's fairly exhausting, but it seems like progress is being made. I still wonder why others who refused to comply with a subpoena have not been held accountable, but that's another question!
What annoys me in all Trump's trials is his ability to go hat in hand to his MAGA's who, unable to think - only to feel, will pay for his defense. He won't suffer one little bit. All that and unlimited time mugging for the cameras.
Thanks and praise to the Federal Judge who ordered Abbott to remove the deadly objects he has placed in the Rio Grande. I realize it is a Federal waterway but it is also an international waterway. Mexico would have the legal right to attack those objects on the grounds the waterway is as much theirs as ours.
Smith’s cooperating witness, of course, suffers from a vulnerability to cross-exam attack on the issue that, “you lied before, didn’t you,” it would seem. BUT, were Trump’s def Attys to pursue that line, methinks the Govt would have a field day eliciting testimony regarding the circumstances in which he initially lied -- “counsel made me do it!” -- and why he came clean -- “I didn’t want to go to jail forTrump by continuing to lie,”. Tough strategic decision for Attys who may have suborned perjury.....
When the movie, or as several movies are made, I would like to play Sidney Powell. I can fake a Texas accent and my voice is as deep as hers. Hire a few drag queen make-up artists to do make up and I’m set to play her.
Does anyone else find the irony delicious: Hunter Biden's long awaited indictment is for breaking a law that the many in the GOP would consider to be a violation of his 2d Amendment Rights?
(We don't know if that's ALL that's being considered, but even if it is only part....)
"The only issue left to decide is damages—how much more money Trump will have to pay Carroll. Her lawyer can ask for punitive damages, sufficient to punish Trump and to prevent a repeat of what he did after the last trial—making additional defamatory comments the day after the verdict. That could be a very high number."
I wonder how high?
Whew. A lot going on. Thanks for making it understandable to we non-lawyers. I love that defendants decide to tell the truth after they ditch the lawyer T pays for and then get realistic advice about what their future looks like. Yo, Nauta and Oliveira - you might want to think about that.
My schadenfreude moment? "The Judge cited Trump's “advanced age” as justification for moving forward, ...". Bet that got under T's skin.
Lots of concerns.
First, the obsession with appeals. The cases need to be properly tried of course so that they can be sustained on appeal but the appeal is not the important part. Get the convictions now. Given the ages of the parties involved and the closeness of the election, it doesn’t really matter if the cases are sustained on appeal or not. Natural causes will ultimately take care of these cases. It’s more important to get the convictions.
Second, in the Carol cases and Cohen’s upcoming deposition of trump, DOJ has taken the inexcusable positions, corrected now (voluntarily in Carroll finally but by court order in Cohen) that trump’s actions were in the course and scope of his employment. Those positions by DOJ have been absurd from the beginning. It is very hard to understand what is wrong with DOJ. We have to survive trump and DOJ (not Smith’s actions). In my opinion, both of these were bad and inexcusable positions taken by Garland. Who knows what else he may do?
Third, with the Georgia Attorney General, we are now seeing the dangers of the RICO cause of action and its loosey-gooseyness (Oh, heck, we were just talking at bridge club.). Its use against Cop City protesters may stand. My bet is we will see more cases brought by the Republican attorneys general. This shows what a dangerous and unbridled cause of action RICO can become. At least the wonderful lady protesting at Navarro’s press conferences will not likely have to worry as she appears to be on her own. This is pure speculation, but I wonder if the dangers of unbridled RICO may be part of why Smith has not brought RICO causes of action.
Fourth, the deathly Rio Grand barriers and the US failure immediately to remove them. Texass has no right to impede the waters of the United States (whatever those are after the last horrible Supreme Court case). Biden should have ordered the Corps of Engineers to remove the barriers. Save lives first and then fight with Texass after the fact if necessary. It is inexcusable to allow the harm to continue. It reminds me of the spring gun laws (setting up a gun to kill when a door is opened). If the fight is lost ultimately, highly doubtful, at least it may have saved lives.
My opinion.
There's a lot of hopeful news here! I must admit to taking extra joy from Peter Navarro finally getting justice. What a freak. He needs medication. The lady following him around with the signs is hilarious! ❤