Too much of the country still views our “politics” in the traditional way: right-of-center, center, and left-of-center. Why else would we now have a Republican-controlled House just two years after a seditious insurrection - led by a maniacal Republican President - that almost toppled our democracy, and after many of those same Reps voted against certifying Joe Biden’s election with no valid reason just hours after said insurrection? As long as our fellow citizens vote these idiots into office, we are going to be in grave danger of losing our democracy.
I have been dumbfounded by this “voting against my best interest” phenomenon for many years. I’m afraid a sizable segment of the population is simply stupid, and they are damn proud of it.
I'm with your friend who tweeted. While I can certainly understand that not everyone wants to talk politics every minute of every day (even I don't want to do that), it behooves us to pay close attention to what's going on, and to take whatever actions we can in order to keep our democracy from falling apart and to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. I'm so grateful to you and others who are keeping us informed.
Marie Élise might want to remind her family that ignorance is only bliss before tragedy strikes. In other words, ignorance is not bliss. Discussing politics thoughtfully and honestly is a duty of citizenship.
One issue I find with not remaining silent is that my overwhelming experience has been that those who are supporters of tfg do not want to hear the truth. They can’t let facts get in the way of a good story. So any attempts to convince them that they are citing incorrect information or ignoring relevant data falls on deaf ears.
Or they choose to be willfully ignorant. When I had a conversation with my brother over Christmas re masks (he insists they don’t prevent disease and are useless) I asked him why doctors mask up in surgery if they aren’t effective. His response was that that was completely different. When I asked him to explain how he said it was a sterile environment. I said then a) it should be the last place you need a mask then because “everything is sterilized” or b) he was saying masks helped keep it sterile meaning they protected against the spread of germs. Nope! He wasn’t hearing it and I was an MSNBC following sheep. You can’t successfully engage people who want to keep their blinders on.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree remaining silent helps the oppressor but engaging in futile and fraught conversations that are clearly going nowhere stresses me out something awful.
Re the reluctance of family to refuse to discuss politics, I have the same problem with mine. I'll say something about politics, and I get massive blow-back. (This is from people who are 25 years younger than I am, and have old teens as kids. NO ONE gets involved in politics.) I finally asked "why? Why can't we talk about this?" I was told it's because it's boring. (Meanwhile the wife sat with crossed arms, crossed legs, and a scowl on her face.) I replied, "I don't think it's boring! It's our LIVES! It's our children's future! This isn't an autocracy! NO ONE gets to "sit this out" in a democracy! If you don't get involved in a democratic system, you deserve to lose your freedoms! It's not enough to vote once every four years!"
Did it work? Not immediately. The wife stormed off, and the husband changed the subject. But to be fair, it's the first time I really pushed back on this ban on politics. It doesn't feel like I failed though. The husband actually "got it." We will keep trying.
I want to make a bumper sticker that reads:
"If you aren't "woke" then wake up! Your House is on fire!!"
Thanks Joyce for your helpful notes and alerts about the week ahead.
In response to the writer whose family “doesn’t want to talk politics” she’s not alone. Many families don’t have the ability to navigate big or small differences-- many people are alienated and depressed.
I’m aware of how exhausted people and families are with ordinary life events. Political stressors, lack of fact based information on new cases Covid/flu etc and fears about facing the political consequences of the Jan 6 anniversary. We are living in a more fractured society. In day to day life I try to find small things in common, even small talk can sometimes make a difference. Every effort to nurture good personal relationships is worth the effort. I have recognized sometimes we can’t get past the misinformation and anger. Some folks are very lost and it’s hard to accept.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." I understand the attrubution is to Plato. Another way to think of it is when we don't talk politics at all, bad things happen behind our backs, and our vote is cast out of ignorance~ we likely end up choosing poorly.
I am getting depressed, but hold on to hope (which is not naïve, but built on many decades of good and bad). Good to read your clear, unemotional sentences. I'm especially interested in how Jordan et al. get around the fact they ignored supoenas. Not that he won't plow through. Thanks
A very busy week indeed! Regarding talking politics, I say speak your mind. If the political heat is too high for some they can get out of the kitchen! In this moment it’s unacceptable not to know where people stand on these issues..
When TFG was elected in 2016, my then-27yo Millennial daughter was inconsolable, describing fears about her future that have now mostly come true (e.g., Roe, lack of progress on climate change, civil rights, LGBTQIA+ rights). Though she votes Democratic in every single election (and cast her first presidential vote for Obama in 2008), we hold her and so many other young people in our ranks by the slimmest of threads. They are paying closer attention than we give them credit for, and do not have the faith in democratic institutions that we did/do. Our (seeming) naïveté and apparent trust in those institutions is deeply frustrating to them. We would be so wise to not dismiss their fears as unrealistic or dramatic, but to genuinely listen to them, as part of our duty of citizenship.
I run into the same attitude, 'no politics, please' , from many people I encounter, or else I find myself being ignored when I bring up the subject (which I do every chance I get). What do I do, you ask?
I work at an abortion clinic and I warn my patients they will lose the choice they have to terminate an unwanted pregnancy if they ignore 'politics'. I help women register to vote.
I tell those who say 'no more politics', what will you do when authorities drag you from your home and throw you in prison for expressing your opinion?
Look at Russia. Look at what happens to those who say the word war, instead of conflict. How many hundreds of those people are sitting in some forsaken prison? It could be you. Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Look at Iran. How would you feel if they threw your daughter into prison for not wearing a head scarf, and then you discover she's dead? Do you still think religion has a place in our government? Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Freedom is not free, and if informative discussion about the politics of this country and it's effects on our daily life are distasteful, make it personal because it is. Use your own relevant examples. Keep reminding others of what it will be like if the very basic freedoms we have are stripped away, because they will be if we choose not to participate. Do not stop when you're told 'no politics, please'. Keep up the discussion, and get others to participate. If you're losing their attention, try again later. But never stop. Democracy is only successful if everyone joins in.
If the Republicans think they may overstep in their actions and not be held accountable by DOJ and a major part of the people of this country, let them think again.
Early on in your excellent commentary, you noted that, "... if Jordan goes too far here, he will be handing Democrats an argument regarding committee bias that will be easy for people with open minds to understand." I'm doing a bit of an eye-roll here, because we are only too aware that many people seem to have closed their minds to anything except MAGA and GQP nonsense. <sigh>
The GOP in the house are 7th graders and you’re belief that they will be uncomfortable with enforcing subpoenas is assuming any shred of adult behavior. The non election of the speaker showed they cannot see the forest for the trees. We are in for a tough ride as we watch the inmates run the asylum.
In response to your question, how does our family handle talking politics? Our father died of Covid. This happened early on while Trump was denying Covid would be a problem for our country. Around that time I had read Germany denied Trump’s attempt, interest in investing in their Covid vaccine, stocks. I thought OMG he isn’t going to help us until he invests in vaccine stocks everywhere he can. Didn’t 100,000’s of people die from his slow response? Then he quarreled with our Michigan Governor Whitmer and tried to deny any help for her because she’s Democrat. Therefore it’s hard for me to not blame Trump for my Dad’s passing. Trump had the power to help but chose not to. It has been very hard for the many Republican members of my family to discuss politics now. I sense they wrestle with being faithful to Trump now, but they still try to defend him. They will not listen to the truth. They do not want to look at him as anything but their great business model. It’s been hard for them. But harder for me as I see the destruction that unfolds if power is put in the wrong hands.
Too much of the country still views our “politics” in the traditional way: right-of-center, center, and left-of-center. Why else would we now have a Republican-controlled House just two years after a seditious insurrection - led by a maniacal Republican President - that almost toppled our democracy, and after many of those same Reps voted against certifying Joe Biden’s election with no valid reason just hours after said insurrection? As long as our fellow citizens vote these idiots into office, we are going to be in grave danger of losing our democracy.
I have been dumbfounded by this “voting against my best interest” phenomenon for many years. I’m afraid a sizable segment of the population is simply stupid, and they are damn proud of it.
Tom J...bluff park, al
I'm with your friend who tweeted. While I can certainly understand that not everyone wants to talk politics every minute of every day (even I don't want to do that), it behooves us to pay close attention to what's going on, and to take whatever actions we can in order to keep our democracy from falling apart and to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. I'm so grateful to you and others who are keeping us informed.
Marie Élise might want to remind her family that ignorance is only bliss before tragedy strikes. In other words, ignorance is not bliss. Discussing politics thoughtfully and honestly is a duty of citizenship.
One issue I find with not remaining silent is that my overwhelming experience has been that those who are supporters of tfg do not want to hear the truth. They can’t let facts get in the way of a good story. So any attempts to convince them that they are citing incorrect information or ignoring relevant data falls on deaf ears.
Or they choose to be willfully ignorant. When I had a conversation with my brother over Christmas re masks (he insists they don’t prevent disease and are useless) I asked him why doctors mask up in surgery if they aren’t effective. His response was that that was completely different. When I asked him to explain how he said it was a sterile environment. I said then a) it should be the last place you need a mask then because “everything is sterilized” or b) he was saying masks helped keep it sterile meaning they protected against the spread of germs. Nope! He wasn’t hearing it and I was an MSNBC following sheep. You can’t successfully engage people who want to keep their blinders on.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree remaining silent helps the oppressor but engaging in futile and fraught conversations that are clearly going nowhere stresses me out something awful.
Hoo Boy! That was some robust legal activity!
Re the reluctance of family to refuse to discuss politics, I have the same problem with mine. I'll say something about politics, and I get massive blow-back. (This is from people who are 25 years younger than I am, and have old teens as kids. NO ONE gets involved in politics.) I finally asked "why? Why can't we talk about this?" I was told it's because it's boring. (Meanwhile the wife sat with crossed arms, crossed legs, and a scowl on her face.) I replied, "I don't think it's boring! It's our LIVES! It's our children's future! This isn't an autocracy! NO ONE gets to "sit this out" in a democracy! If you don't get involved in a democratic system, you deserve to lose your freedoms! It's not enough to vote once every four years!"
Did it work? Not immediately. The wife stormed off, and the husband changed the subject. But to be fair, it's the first time I really pushed back on this ban on politics. It doesn't feel like I failed though. The husband actually "got it." We will keep trying.
I want to make a bumper sticker that reads:
"If you aren't "woke" then wake up! Your House is on fire!!"
Thanks Joyce for your helpful notes and alerts about the week ahead.
In response to the writer whose family “doesn’t want to talk politics” she’s not alone. Many families don’t have the ability to navigate big or small differences-- many people are alienated and depressed.
I’m aware of how exhausted people and families are with ordinary life events. Political stressors, lack of fact based information on new cases Covid/flu etc and fears about facing the political consequences of the Jan 6 anniversary. We are living in a more fractured society. In day to day life I try to find small things in common, even small talk can sometimes make a difference. Every effort to nurture good personal relationships is worth the effort. I have recognized sometimes we can’t get past the misinformation and anger. Some folks are very lost and it’s hard to accept.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." I understand the attrubution is to Plato. Another way to think of it is when we don't talk politics at all, bad things happen behind our backs, and our vote is cast out of ignorance~ we likely end up choosing poorly.
I am getting depressed, but hold on to hope (which is not naïve, but built on many decades of good and bad). Good to read your clear, unemotional sentences. I'm especially interested in how Jordan et al. get around the fact they ignored supoenas. Not that he won't plow through. Thanks
A very busy week indeed! Regarding talking politics, I say speak your mind. If the political heat is too high for some they can get out of the kitchen! In this moment it’s unacceptable not to know where people stand on these issues..
Desperate times, desperate measures..
When TFG was elected in 2016, my then-27yo Millennial daughter was inconsolable, describing fears about her future that have now mostly come true (e.g., Roe, lack of progress on climate change, civil rights, LGBTQIA+ rights). Though she votes Democratic in every single election (and cast her first presidential vote for Obama in 2008), we hold her and so many other young people in our ranks by the slimmest of threads. They are paying closer attention than we give them credit for, and do not have the faith in democratic institutions that we did/do. Our (seeming) naïveté and apparent trust in those institutions is deeply frustrating to them. We would be so wise to not dismiss their fears as unrealistic or dramatic, but to genuinely listen to them, as part of our duty of citizenship.
I run into the same attitude, 'no politics, please' , from many people I encounter, or else I find myself being ignored when I bring up the subject (which I do every chance I get). What do I do, you ask?
I work at an abortion clinic and I warn my patients they will lose the choice they have to terminate an unwanted pregnancy if they ignore 'politics'. I help women register to vote.
I tell those who say 'no more politics', what will you do when authorities drag you from your home and throw you in prison for expressing your opinion?
Look at Russia. Look at what happens to those who say the word war, instead of conflict. How many hundreds of those people are sitting in some forsaken prison? It could be you. Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Look at Iran. How would you feel if they threw your daughter into prison for not wearing a head scarf, and then you discover she's dead? Do you still think religion has a place in our government? Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Freedom is not free, and if informative discussion about the politics of this country and it's effects on our daily life are distasteful, make it personal because it is. Use your own relevant examples. Keep reminding others of what it will be like if the very basic freedoms we have are stripped away, because they will be if we choose not to participate. Do not stop when you're told 'no politics, please'. Keep up the discussion, and get others to participate. If you're losing their attention, try again later. But never stop. Democracy is only successful if everyone joins in.
Vote.
If the Republicans think they may overstep in their actions and not be held accountable by DOJ and a major part of the people of this country, let them think again.
Early on in your excellent commentary, you noted that, "... if Jordan goes too far here, he will be handing Democrats an argument regarding committee bias that will be easy for people with open minds to understand." I'm doing a bit of an eye-roll here, because we are only too aware that many people seem to have closed their minds to anything except MAGA and GQP nonsense. <sigh>
The GOP in the house are 7th graders and you’re belief that they will be uncomfortable with enforcing subpoenas is assuming any shred of adult behavior. The non election of the speaker showed they cannot see the forest for the trees. We are in for a tough ride as we watch the inmates run the asylum.
In response to your question, how does our family handle talking politics? Our father died of Covid. This happened early on while Trump was denying Covid would be a problem for our country. Around that time I had read Germany denied Trump’s attempt, interest in investing in their Covid vaccine, stocks. I thought OMG he isn’t going to help us until he invests in vaccine stocks everywhere he can. Didn’t 100,000’s of people die from his slow response? Then he quarreled with our Michigan Governor Whitmer and tried to deny any help for her because she’s Democrat. Therefore it’s hard for me to not blame Trump for my Dad’s passing. Trump had the power to help but chose not to. It has been very hard for the many Republican members of my family to discuss politics now. I sense they wrestle with being faithful to Trump now, but they still try to defend him. They will not listen to the truth. They do not want to look at him as anything but their great business model. It’s been hard for them. But harder for me as I see the destruction that unfolds if power is put in the wrong hands.