Too much of the country still views our “politics” in the traditional way: right-of-center, center, and left-of-center. Why else would we now have a Republican-controlled House just two years after a seditious insurrection - led by a maniacal Republican President - that almost toppled our democracy, and after many of those same Reps voted against certifying Joe Biden’s election with no valid reason just hours after said insurrection? As long as our fellow citizens vote these idiots into office, we are going to be in grave danger of losing our democracy.
I have been dumbfounded by this “voting against my best interest” phenomenon for many years. I’m afraid a sizable segment of the population is simply stupid, and they are damn proud of it.
The need to belong is definitely a big factor, especially for the rank and file. It goes hand in hand with the group think and validation in religion, which often conditions people to accept authoritarianism. It’s also the result of severe cognitive dissonance. They can’t see the other side of the coin and apply the same demands for “civil liberties” to others as they do to themselves. The truest belief of wealthy conservatives is that they are anointed to rule, just like kings believed they were chosen by God. They think their wealth proves their superiority and that the entire world will be better off if they’re in charge. Of course it’s self-serving, as they have proven time and again, only they become better off. As we’ve seen with Trump, Elon Musk and other obscenely rich, addle-brained conservatives, the only “skills” that play a part in the acquisition and perpetuation of their wealth, is lying, bullying and cheating, Often their wealth is inherited and managed by very savvy, ethically-compromised people who they can afford to pay well. Eventually, the weight of greed and corruption all caves in on them.
You are correct with one adaptation: "....and their need to hold power." I am certain many of the Ivy League schools where these people (Cruz, Hawley, DeSantis, et al) were educated would like nothing more than for their names to disappear from their alumnae/i roles.
DeeDee, you make a reasonable point, however, factual information or the lack there of doesn’t prevent the deployment of critical thinking..A skill that when used in this case would provide one with multiple sources of information from which to draw one’s conclusions..It is absent in these people who think as lemmings..
Thank you..The candor and eloquence of your truth telling remarks, your stepping up to support this factual goings-on or lack thereof is much appreciated by me..Those of us (all Americans) who see this dynamic in the 73 million fellow Americans you mentioned do not have a responsibility to make excuses or placate the political or behavioral choices of these groups, considering who they saw fit to put in the White House in 2016. And particularly considering the events of January 6th 2021..
Moreover, they and it should as you point out, be called out and challenged.
The Anti Vaxers dying from Covid 19 while being told by the Fox News’ of the media and their own members of Congress “there is no danger and the Vaccine is bad” in their hypocrisy is an excellent example of the core of this discussion..
It was disappointing to have one of the people who called me out regarding my remarks choose not to explain their position as asked by me in order to better understand them..See the thread..
I view this Newsletter/Blog Joyce has provided as a place for discussion, sharing ideas, learning and growing..In all of my time with the Civil Discourse community, or any of the other offerings here on Substack that I participate in I have not felt for one moment that anyone was arguing..We are discussing important issues and points of view..
I feel in this moment in this discussion it is appropriate to include an explanation of Critical Thinking, considering that so many of our fellow Americans perhaps are unaware of it, or choosing not to deploy it.
Critical Thinking:
"The intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully, applying, analyzing, and/or evaluating different sources of information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action, to arrive at an well informed conclusion..
A far cry I would say to planting ones self on the couch watching Fox News as a singular source of information..
I've read though several comments made here, I don't believe the remarks made regarding the behavior and choices of our fellow Americans is dehumanizing..If I am missing a nuance to which you are perceiving, please point it out and help us or perhaps me better understand your feelings..
I see Mary, below is the 2nd of two definitions of “lemming” from Dictionary.com The 1st describing various small, mouselike rodents..
2 a person who follows the will of others, especially in a mass movement, and heads straight into a situation or circumstance that is dangerous, stupid, or destructive:
“These lemmings that eat up conspiracy theories are so blinded by lies, they don't even see the cliff they're about to plummet over.”
Does that seem familiar to you? Is there anyone of our populous that fits this description?
Thanks for saying this. It bugs me daily. When people consume lies by the second that murdoch promotes, they really are living in a different universe. They aren't b.s. "alternate facts" they are lies and the weak and the ill and many affected by the isolation of the pandemic were vulnerable to being radicalized. murdoch and others jumped on it. So the 1/6 committee hearings and any criminal acts didn't reach the other side because murdoch and the others couldn't have truth on display. They need the votes and love the money by any means.
Thanks for your explanation! You have succinctly described what has happened, which defies reason and rationality. For years, I never understood "voting against my best interest." But, I finally realized that Trump's constituents' "shared hatred" is more important to them than their "best interests." The fact that Trump is a power-hungry anti-Democracy, autocratic, narcissistic sociopath who doesn't care about anyone other than himself, rich people and billionaires, seems to have eluded them.
What they "love" about him, is that he appeals to their most base instincts, and he praises and articulates their shared hatred, anger, lawlessness, lack of compassion, greediness, desire to blame others, unwillingness to accept personal responsibility, ignorance, amorality, belief in violence, and lust for power.
What other president has so successfully united a coalition of racists, religious fanatics, criminals, gun fanatics, misogynists, White Nationalists, ageists, anti-immigrant rednecks, under-educated rural Americans, homophobes, law enforcement and military personnel, domestic terrorists, rich people, billionaires, far-right political extremists, anarchists, and well-educated politicians who want to emulate him?
They wear their shared ignorance like a badge of valor. And, Jim Jordan is the most dangerous person in their cult because he is a bully, and he has everything to lose. If the DOJ ever investigates him, they will find he was not only involved in planning the Insurrection and coup, but in a lot of other aspects I suspect as well.
Ruthann, I must disagree here, Ignorant Is merely being without information..I would submit that we are all ignorant of certain subject matter, that is until we become educated further on the subject..However, having said that..There are those who are ignorant in regards to the matter at hand in this discussion..To put it in Star Wars terms..they are the ones who can be turned to the light..😎
Sam, I respectfully disagree, although you are entitled to your opinion, and it may just be a matter of interpretation. "Stupid" suggests they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand something. Ignorance, in this case, is their choice. They can't "be turned to the light," because they choose to remain ignorant.
I hadn't considered "stupid" through this lens before, you are correct, "stupid" is misused here..Sadly, as you point out, ignorance is their choice. However, their minds can be changed should they develop the courage to confront or perhaps accept the truth..Wouldn't you agree?
Sam, I thought I wrote earlier, but I don't see it, and I do agree. But, sometimes it takes a real tragedy or life-changing experience to change. When a lot of the anti-vaxx people started dying, that was what it took for some of their loved ones--but certainly not all of them--to get vaxxed.
You make a solid point with your analogy..Susan, I believe we are getting to a place of the unknown..Kind of a “There in lies the rub” sort of place..We can’t know what will move these folks to come around in their thinking and take a different path..There is a metaphor that may be fitting..”A fish rots from the head, cut off the head, the body withers and dies"..What I am certain of though is our country is under attack by a threat from within, and at many levels of our elected government..Action must be taken at some point soon. I see you are also among The Warning community, what do you make of the latest there?
Both I’d say, particularly this continued voting against one’s own interests..However, there are those who want what the GOP are about..they represent a faction that must be crushed..
I'm with your friend who tweeted. While I can certainly understand that not everyone wants to talk politics every minute of every day (even I don't want to do that), it behooves us to pay close attention to what's going on, and to take whatever actions we can in order to keep our democracy from falling apart and to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. I'm so grateful to you and others who are keeping us informed.
Marie Élise might want to remind her family that ignorance is only bliss before tragedy strikes. In other words, ignorance is not bliss. Discussing politics thoughtfully and honestly is a duty of citizenship.
One issue I find with not remaining silent is that my overwhelming experience has been that those who are supporters of tfg do not want to hear the truth. They can’t let facts get in the way of a good story. So any attempts to convince them that they are citing incorrect information or ignoring relevant data falls on deaf ears.
Or they choose to be willfully ignorant. When I had a conversation with my brother over Christmas re masks (he insists they don’t prevent disease and are useless) I asked him why doctors mask up in surgery if they aren’t effective. His response was that that was completely different. When I asked him to explain how he said it was a sterile environment. I said then a) it should be the last place you need a mask then because “everything is sterilized” or b) he was saying masks helped keep it sterile meaning they protected against the spread of germs. Nope! He wasn’t hearing it and I was an MSNBC following sheep. You can’t successfully engage people who want to keep their blinders on.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree remaining silent helps the oppressor but engaging in futile and fraught conversations that are clearly going nowhere stresses me out something awful.
I agree completely. My sister got so tired of listening to my voice of reason and asking her to explain WHY she thinks I’m wrong, ended in her no longer speaking to me. To the point that she now calls a trump loving friend her sister :( So, yeah, it’s frustrating and stressful. They simply refuse to admit they were duped. Because I know she is smart enough to know she was. But she’ll go to her grave saying she wasn’t.
omg. I have a sister who was brought to sanity by questioning another sibling about a Lincoln Project ad. She voted for Biden based on that. But they're going to end up as snowbirds in FL and implored me to come. I said no nicely until I saw a desantis cartoon and forwarded that to her and said he's why I'm not patronizing FL. I think it was Ruth-Ben Ghiat on a Medhi Hassan panel (subject was good and Medhi wasn't annoying) who said there's a lot of reluctance in this country to acknowledge what's happening. This group isn't one of them :) hur-ray.
Oh so true! I’ve had similar conversations with my R siblings. They refuse to hear and reasonably consider facts. I was once accused by a sibling of not being educated enough to vote (while I hold a PhD).
Let’s see what the 2022 election holds. It is only by statistically insignificant votes that the House is Republican. The people pushed in a new direction, bucking the usual pattern. No matter what the Order of the Golden Republicans in the House thinks, they hold power by a thread.
Re the reluctance of family to refuse to discuss politics, I have the same problem with mine. I'll say something about politics, and I get massive blow-back. (This is from people who are 25 years younger than I am, and have old teens as kids. NO ONE gets involved in politics.) I finally asked "why? Why can't we talk about this?" I was told it's because it's boring. (Meanwhile the wife sat with crossed arms, crossed legs, and a scowl on her face.) I replied, "I don't think it's boring! It's our LIVES! It's our children's future! This isn't an autocracy! NO ONE gets to "sit this out" in a democracy! If you don't get involved in a democratic system, you deserve to lose your freedoms! It's not enough to vote once every four years!"
Did it work? Not immediately. The wife stormed off, and the husband changed the subject. But to be fair, it's the first time I really pushed back on this ban on politics. It doesn't feel like I failed though. The husband actually "got it." We will keep trying.
I want to make a bumper sticker that reads:
"If you aren't "woke" then wake up! Your House is on fire!!"
Thanks Joyce for your helpful notes and alerts about the week ahead.
In response to the writer whose family “doesn’t want to talk politics” she’s not alone. Many families don’t have the ability to navigate big or small differences-- many people are alienated and depressed.
I’m aware of how exhausted people and families are with ordinary life events. Political stressors, lack of fact based information on new cases Covid/flu etc and fears about facing the political consequences of the Jan 6 anniversary. We are living in a more fractured society. In day to day life I try to find small things in common, even small talk can sometimes make a difference. Every effort to nurture good personal relationships is worth the effort. I have recognized sometimes we can’t get past the misinformation and anger. Some folks are very lost and it’s hard to accept.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." I understand the attrubution is to Plato. Another way to think of it is when we don't talk politics at all, bad things happen behind our backs, and our vote is cast out of ignorance~ we likely end up choosing poorly.
It reminds me of companies telling us wage workers that we aren't allowed to discuss how much we get paid because it isn't proper. Well, of course they don't want us finding out how much each other makes or we will be demanding equal pay and such. The audacity of peasants!
I am getting depressed, but hold on to hope (which is not naïve, but built on many decades of good and bad). Good to read your clear, unemotional sentences. I'm especially interested in how Jordan et al. get around the fact they ignored supoenas. Not that he won't plow through. Thanks
Those who ignored Congressional subpoenas will most certainly deliver retaliatory subpoenas. Let’s see how that plays out! As Joyce tells us it will most likely just serve to cause more wasted time and resources.
Agreed. I say I'm interested in how it plays out because may it help to keep me from losing hope. It might be positive rather than only distressing to see their wrong moves. Maybe more voters will realize what chaos-lovers they are, not like Benghazi when Clinton lost popularity. We can hope our new Speaker in name only will continue to say the quiet part out loud as he did about Benghazi. I don't want to say popcorn, but I have hope.
A very busy week indeed! Regarding talking politics, I say speak your mind. If the political heat is too high for some they can get out of the kitchen! In this moment it’s unacceptable not to know where people stand on these issues..
When TFG was elected in 2016, my then-27yo Millennial daughter was inconsolable, describing fears about her future that have now mostly come true (e.g., Roe, lack of progress on climate change, civil rights, LGBTQIA+ rights). Though she votes Democratic in every single election (and cast her first presidential vote for Obama in 2008), we hold her and so many other young people in our ranks by the slimmest of threads. They are paying closer attention than we give them credit for, and do not have the faith in democratic institutions that we did/do. Our (seeming) naïveté and apparent trust in those institutions is deeply frustrating to them. We would be so wise to not dismiss their fears as unrealistic or dramatic, but to genuinely listen to them, as part of our duty of citizenship.
I’m a mom to three sons. My 16 yo routinely tells me January 6 was no big deal. I do my honest best to find moments when he’s not being oppositional and talk about democratic principles and the importance of the rule of law. Kid is in model UN so I think some of this is just rebellion. My 18 yo is not interested in politics—or so he says. He starts college in the fall and is considering political science. And my 22 yo is planning to go to law school and our family text thread Friday was hilarious.
All of that is to say that the kids ARE listening and watching and paying attention, and are aware that we are deeply divided as a country and that they will have to fix it. I wish we were leaving things in better shape, but here we are. Taking the duties of citizenship seriously is essential.
you may know how parenting goes with teenagers--some days it's all awesome and some days you wonder if anything you've ever said made it through.... so thank you for your kind words ❤️
I run into the same attitude, 'no politics, please' , from many people I encounter, or else I find myself being ignored when I bring up the subject (which I do every chance I get). What do I do, you ask?
I work at an abortion clinic and I warn my patients they will lose the choice they have to terminate an unwanted pregnancy if they ignore 'politics'. I help women register to vote.
I tell those who say 'no more politics', what will you do when authorities drag you from your home and throw you in prison for expressing your opinion?
Look at Russia. Look at what happens to those who say the word war, instead of conflict. How many hundreds of those people are sitting in some forsaken prison? It could be you. Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Look at Iran. How would you feel if they threw your daughter into prison for not wearing a head scarf, and then you discover she's dead? Do you still think religion has a place in our government? Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Freedom is not free, and if informative discussion about the politics of this country and it's effects on our daily life are distasteful, make it personal because it is. Use your own relevant examples. Keep reminding others of what it will be like if the very basic freedoms we have are stripped away, because they will be if we choose not to participate. Do not stop when you're told 'no politics, please'. Keep up the discussion, and get others to participate. If you're losing their attention, try again later. But never stop. Democracy is only successful if everyone joins in.
Thanks so much for the work you are doing. You know you’re helping others-- and that inspires all of us to discover or identify new ways to make our friends, our families or communities better-- one person, one conversation at a time. A compassionate attitude straight forward attitude-- and willingness to invest your time in others can have a powerful ripple effect. thank you.....
If the Republicans think they may overstep in their actions and not be held accountable by DOJ and a major part of the people of this country, let them think again.
Early on in your excellent commentary, you noted that, "... if Jordan goes too far here, he will be handing Democrats an argument regarding committee bias that will be easy for people with open minds to understand." I'm doing a bit of an eye-roll here, because we are only too aware that many people seem to have closed their minds to anything except MAGA and GQP nonsense. <sigh>
The GOP in the house are 7th graders and you’re belief that they will be uncomfortable with enforcing subpoenas is assuming any shred of adult behavior. The non election of the speaker showed they cannot see the forest for the trees. We are in for a tough ride as we watch the inmates run the asylum.
In response to your question, how does our family handle talking politics? Our father died of Covid. This happened early on while Trump was denying Covid would be a problem for our country. Around that time I had read Germany denied Trump’s attempt, interest in investing in their Covid vaccine, stocks. I thought OMG he isn’t going to help us until he invests in vaccine stocks everywhere he can. Didn’t 100,000’s of people die from his slow response? Then he quarreled with our Michigan Governor Whitmer and tried to deny any help for her because she’s Democrat. Therefore it’s hard for me to not blame Trump for my Dad’s passing. Trump had the power to help but chose not to. It has been very hard for the many Republican members of my family to discuss politics now. I sense they wrestle with being faithful to Trump now, but they still try to defend him. They will not listen to the truth. They do not want to look at him as anything but their great business model. It’s been hard for them. But harder for me as I see the destruction that unfolds if power is put in the wrong hands.
Too much of the country still views our “politics” in the traditional way: right-of-center, center, and left-of-center. Why else would we now have a Republican-controlled House just two years after a seditious insurrection - led by a maniacal Republican President - that almost toppled our democracy, and after many of those same Reps voted against certifying Joe Biden’s election with no valid reason just hours after said insurrection? As long as our fellow citizens vote these idiots into office, we are going to be in grave danger of losing our democracy.
I have been dumbfounded by this “voting against my best interest” phenomenon for many years. I’m afraid a sizable segment of the population is simply stupid, and they are damn proud of it.
Tom J...bluff park, al
Perhaps not "stupid". Perhaps deluded and misled by Murdoch, Tucker, tRump, Bannon, and pretty much any R currently serving in Congress.
Nobody can make rational decisions without accurate, factual information.
Many of those “stupid” Rs are highly educated. It is my belief that their need to belong transcends their need to be rational and thoughtful. K
The need to belong is definitely a big factor, especially for the rank and file. It goes hand in hand with the group think and validation in religion, which often conditions people to accept authoritarianism. It’s also the result of severe cognitive dissonance. They can’t see the other side of the coin and apply the same demands for “civil liberties” to others as they do to themselves. The truest belief of wealthy conservatives is that they are anointed to rule, just like kings believed they were chosen by God. They think their wealth proves their superiority and that the entire world will be better off if they’re in charge. Of course it’s self-serving, as they have proven time and again, only they become better off. As we’ve seen with Trump, Elon Musk and other obscenely rich, addle-brained conservatives, the only “skills” that play a part in the acquisition and perpetuation of their wealth, is lying, bullying and cheating, Often their wealth is inherited and managed by very savvy, ethically-compromised people who they can afford to pay well. Eventually, the weight of greed and corruption all caves in on them.
You are correct with one adaptation: "....and their need to hold power." I am certain many of the Ivy League schools where these people (Cruz, Hawley, DeSantis, et al) were educated would like nothing more than for their names to disappear from their alumnae/i roles.
And to clarify, I was referencing those Rs not holding office, but rather the voting public. They
Yes....power (misguided and perhaps resident only in their own minds).
DeeDee, you make a reasonable point, however, factual information or the lack there of doesn’t prevent the deployment of critical thinking..A skill that when used in this case would provide one with multiple sources of information from which to draw one’s conclusions..It is absent in these people who think as lemmings..
SusanB..
Thank you..The candor and eloquence of your truth telling remarks, your stepping up to support this factual goings-on or lack thereof is much appreciated by me..Those of us (all Americans) who see this dynamic in the 73 million fellow Americans you mentioned do not have a responsibility to make excuses or placate the political or behavioral choices of these groups, considering who they saw fit to put in the White House in 2016. And particularly considering the events of January 6th 2021..
Moreover, they and it should as you point out, be called out and challenged.
The Anti Vaxers dying from Covid 19 while being told by the Fox News’ of the media and their own members of Congress “there is no danger and the Vaccine is bad” in their hypocrisy is an excellent example of the core of this discussion..
It was disappointing to have one of the people who called me out regarding my remarks choose not to explain their position as asked by me in order to better understand them..See the thread..
I view this Newsletter/Blog Joyce has provided as a place for discussion, sharing ideas, learning and growing..In all of my time with the Civil Discourse community, or any of the other offerings here on Substack that I participate in I have not felt for one moment that anyone was arguing..We are discussing important issues and points of view..
I feel in this moment in this discussion it is appropriate to include an explanation of Critical Thinking, considering that so many of our fellow Americans perhaps are unaware of it, or choosing not to deploy it.
Critical Thinking:
"The intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully, applying, analyzing, and/or evaluating different sources of information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action, to arrive at an well informed conclusion..
A far cry I would say to planting ones self on the couch watching Fox News as a singular source of information..
Cheers,
Sam
Id like to caution against dehumanizing any of our fellow Americans. We have to live w them.
I've read though several comments made here, I don't believe the remarks made regarding the behavior and choices of our fellow Americans is dehumanizing..If I am missing a nuance to which you are perceiving, please point it out and help us or perhaps me better understand your feelings..
Hi, Sam . . . I would hear the comment, "It is absent in these people who think as lemmings.." as de-humanizing if you said it of me.
I see Mary, below is the 2nd of two definitions of “lemming” from Dictionary.com The 1st describing various small, mouselike rodents..
2 a person who follows the will of others, especially in a mass movement, and heads straight into a situation or circumstance that is dangerous, stupid, or destructive:
“These lemmings that eat up conspiracy theories are so blinded by lies, they don't even see the cliff they're about to plummet over.”
Does that seem familiar to you? Is there anyone of our populous that fits this description?
Don’t worry about it. I’m not here to argue.
Thanks for saying this. It bugs me daily. When people consume lies by the second that murdoch promotes, they really are living in a different universe. They aren't b.s. "alternate facts" they are lies and the weak and the ill and many affected by the isolation of the pandemic were vulnerable to being radicalized. murdoch and others jumped on it. So the 1/6 committee hearings and any criminal acts didn't reach the other side because murdoch and the others couldn't have truth on display. They need the votes and love the money by any means.
Tom, their too stupid to know the difference..they are what a grifter calls “ The Mark”..
Thanks for your explanation! You have succinctly described what has happened, which defies reason and rationality. For years, I never understood "voting against my best interest." But, I finally realized that Trump's constituents' "shared hatred" is more important to them than their "best interests." The fact that Trump is a power-hungry anti-Democracy, autocratic, narcissistic sociopath who doesn't care about anyone other than himself, rich people and billionaires, seems to have eluded them.
What they "love" about him, is that he appeals to their most base instincts, and he praises and articulates their shared hatred, anger, lawlessness, lack of compassion, greediness, desire to blame others, unwillingness to accept personal responsibility, ignorance, amorality, belief in violence, and lust for power.
What other president has so successfully united a coalition of racists, religious fanatics, criminals, gun fanatics, misogynists, White Nationalists, ageists, anti-immigrant rednecks, under-educated rural Americans, homophobes, law enforcement and military personnel, domestic terrorists, rich people, billionaires, far-right political extremists, anarchists, and well-educated politicians who want to emulate him?
More than stupid --- ignorant and in a cult. They has diminished any smarts they had.
Also, I don’t see any intellectual leader no2 as in the past ( real, not faux like Paul Ryan)..
Gym is their law guy --- never passed the bar, so it believe ever practice law.
Probably went to a mediocre law school.
We are getting a better legal education from Joyce!
They wear their shared ignorance like a badge of valor. And, Jim Jordan is the most dangerous person in their cult because he is a bully, and he has everything to lose. If the DOJ ever investigates him, they will find he was not only involved in planning the Insurrection and coup, but in a lot of other aspects I suspect as well.
Hit the nail on the thumb
#FearTheDumb
Thanks!
Ignorant could be substituted for stupid.
Ruthann, I must disagree here, Ignorant Is merely being without information..I would submit that we are all ignorant of certain subject matter, that is until we become educated further on the subject..However, having said that..There are those who are ignorant in regards to the matter at hand in this discussion..To put it in Star Wars terms..they are the ones who can be turned to the light..😎
Sam, I respectfully disagree, although you are entitled to your opinion, and it may just be a matter of interpretation. "Stupid" suggests they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand something. Ignorance, in this case, is their choice. They can't "be turned to the light," because they choose to remain ignorant.
Hi Susan,
I hadn't considered "stupid" through this lens before, you are correct, "stupid" is misused here..Sadly, as you point out, ignorance is their choice. However, their minds can be changed should they develop the courage to confront or perhaps accept the truth..Wouldn't you agree?
Sam, I thought I wrote earlier, but I don't see it, and I do agree. But, sometimes it takes a real tragedy or life-changing experience to change. When a lot of the anti-vaxx people started dying, that was what it took for some of their loved ones--but certainly not all of them--to get vaxxed.
You make a solid point with your analogy..Susan, I believe we are getting to a place of the unknown..Kind of a “There in lies the rub” sort of place..We can’t know what will move these folks to come around in their thinking and take a different path..There is a metaphor that may be fitting..”A fish rots from the head, cut off the head, the body withers and dies"..What I am certain of though is our country is under attack by a threat from within, and at many levels of our elected government..Action must be taken at some point soon. I see you are also among The Warning community, what do you make of the latest there?
Stupid or lazy or both.
Both I’d say, particularly this continued voting against one’s own interests..However, there are those who want what the GOP are about..they represent a faction that must be crushed..
Yes. Stupidity and laziness are not mutually exclusive 👍🏼
I'm with your friend who tweeted. While I can certainly understand that not everyone wants to talk politics every minute of every day (even I don't want to do that), it behooves us to pay close attention to what's going on, and to take whatever actions we can in order to keep our democracy from falling apart and to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. I'm so grateful to you and others who are keeping us informed.
Politics ain’t a spectator sport. Read TR’s Man in the Arena.
Came here with those exact words!
Marie Élise might want to remind her family that ignorance is only bliss before tragedy strikes. In other words, ignorance is not bliss. Discussing politics thoughtfully and honestly is a duty of citizenship.
Beautifully stated, Sarah.
It is a "duty of citizenship."
One issue I find with not remaining silent is that my overwhelming experience has been that those who are supporters of tfg do not want to hear the truth. They can’t let facts get in the way of a good story. So any attempts to convince them that they are citing incorrect information or ignoring relevant data falls on deaf ears.
Or they choose to be willfully ignorant. When I had a conversation with my brother over Christmas re masks (he insists they don’t prevent disease and are useless) I asked him why doctors mask up in surgery if they aren’t effective. His response was that that was completely different. When I asked him to explain how he said it was a sterile environment. I said then a) it should be the last place you need a mask then because “everything is sterilized” or b) he was saying masks helped keep it sterile meaning they protected against the spread of germs. Nope! He wasn’t hearing it and I was an MSNBC following sheep. You can’t successfully engage people who want to keep their blinders on.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree remaining silent helps the oppressor but engaging in futile and fraught conversations that are clearly going nowhere stresses me out something awful.
I agree completely. My sister got so tired of listening to my voice of reason and asking her to explain WHY she thinks I’m wrong, ended in her no longer speaking to me. To the point that she now calls a trump loving friend her sister :( So, yeah, it’s frustrating and stressful. They simply refuse to admit they were duped. Because I know she is smart enough to know she was. But she’ll go to her grave saying she wasn’t.
oh yeah... I sympathize. I literally never see my FL-based cousin after his wife gave a nazi salute at T-giving.
We do need to know when to cut our losses.
My family is pretty much Dems, and they also won't discuss politics. Not allowed! 🤯
omg. I have a sister who was brought to sanity by questioning another sibling about a Lincoln Project ad. She voted for Biden based on that. But they're going to end up as snowbirds in FL and implored me to come. I said no nicely until I saw a desantis cartoon and forwarded that to her and said he's why I'm not patronizing FL. I think it was Ruth-Ben Ghiat on a Medhi Hassan panel (subject was good and Medhi wasn't annoying) who said there's a lot of reluctance in this country to acknowledge what's happening. This group isn't one of them :) hur-ray.
Congratulations to your sister who "got it", and also to your sibling who explained The Lincoln Project ad! That's huge!
Oh so true! I’ve had similar conversations with my R siblings. They refuse to hear and reasonably consider facts. I was once accused by a sibling of not being educated enough to vote (while I hold a PhD).
LOL! They'll come up with anything. I'm too educated because I have 3 degrees, so clearly, I have no common sense. At least that's the story.
Hahaha! I feel your pain!
Let’s see what the 2022 election holds. It is only by statistically insignificant votes that the House is Republican. The people pushed in a new direction, bucking the usual pattern. No matter what the Order of the Golden Republicans in the House thinks, they hold power by a thread.
8,000 votes away from Jeffries as Speaker.
Hoo Boy! That was some robust legal activity!
Re the reluctance of family to refuse to discuss politics, I have the same problem with mine. I'll say something about politics, and I get massive blow-back. (This is from people who are 25 years younger than I am, and have old teens as kids. NO ONE gets involved in politics.) I finally asked "why? Why can't we talk about this?" I was told it's because it's boring. (Meanwhile the wife sat with crossed arms, crossed legs, and a scowl on her face.) I replied, "I don't think it's boring! It's our LIVES! It's our children's future! This isn't an autocracy! NO ONE gets to "sit this out" in a democracy! If you don't get involved in a democratic system, you deserve to lose your freedoms! It's not enough to vote once every four years!"
Did it work? Not immediately. The wife stormed off, and the husband changed the subject. But to be fair, it's the first time I really pushed back on this ban on politics. It doesn't feel like I failed though. The husband actually "got it." We will keep trying.
I want to make a bumper sticker that reads:
"If you aren't "woke" then wake up! Your House is on fire!!"
I want that bumpersticker!!
Thanks Joyce for your helpful notes and alerts about the week ahead.
In response to the writer whose family “doesn’t want to talk politics” she’s not alone. Many families don’t have the ability to navigate big or small differences-- many people are alienated and depressed.
I’m aware of how exhausted people and families are with ordinary life events. Political stressors, lack of fact based information on new cases Covid/flu etc and fears about facing the political consequences of the Jan 6 anniversary. We are living in a more fractured society. In day to day life I try to find small things in common, even small talk can sometimes make a difference. Every effort to nurture good personal relationships is worth the effort. I have recognized sometimes we can’t get past the misinformation and anger. Some folks are very lost and it’s hard to accept.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." I understand the attrubution is to Plato. Another way to think of it is when we don't talk politics at all, bad things happen behind our backs, and our vote is cast out of ignorance~ we likely end up choosing poorly.
It reminds me of companies telling us wage workers that we aren't allowed to discuss how much we get paid because it isn't proper. Well, of course they don't want us finding out how much each other makes or we will be demanding equal pay and such. The audacity of peasants!
I am getting depressed, but hold on to hope (which is not naïve, but built on many decades of good and bad). Good to read your clear, unemotional sentences. I'm especially interested in how Jordan et al. get around the fact they ignored supoenas. Not that he won't plow through. Thanks
Those who ignored Congressional subpoenas will most certainly deliver retaliatory subpoenas. Let’s see how that plays out! As Joyce tells us it will most likely just serve to cause more wasted time and resources.
Agreed. I say I'm interested in how it plays out because may it help to keep me from losing hope. It might be positive rather than only distressing to see their wrong moves. Maybe more voters will realize what chaos-lovers they are, not like Benghazi when Clinton lost popularity. We can hope our new Speaker in name only will continue to say the quiet part out loud as he did about Benghazi. I don't want to say popcorn, but I have hope.
A very busy week indeed! Regarding talking politics, I say speak your mind. If the political heat is too high for some they can get out of the kitchen! In this moment it’s unacceptable not to know where people stand on these issues..
Desperate times, desperate measures..
When TFG was elected in 2016, my then-27yo Millennial daughter was inconsolable, describing fears about her future that have now mostly come true (e.g., Roe, lack of progress on climate change, civil rights, LGBTQIA+ rights). Though she votes Democratic in every single election (and cast her first presidential vote for Obama in 2008), we hold her and so many other young people in our ranks by the slimmest of threads. They are paying closer attention than we give them credit for, and do not have the faith in democratic institutions that we did/do. Our (seeming) naïveté and apparent trust in those institutions is deeply frustrating to them. We would be so wise to not dismiss their fears as unrealistic or dramatic, but to genuinely listen to them, as part of our duty of citizenship.
I’m a mom to three sons. My 16 yo routinely tells me January 6 was no big deal. I do my honest best to find moments when he’s not being oppositional and talk about democratic principles and the importance of the rule of law. Kid is in model UN so I think some of this is just rebellion. My 18 yo is not interested in politics—or so he says. He starts college in the fall and is considering political science. And my 22 yo is planning to go to law school and our family text thread Friday was hilarious.
All of that is to say that the kids ARE listening and watching and paying attention, and are aware that we are deeply divided as a country and that they will have to fix it. I wish we were leaving things in better shape, but here we are. Taking the duties of citizenship seriously is essential.
Your kids are all right. 😃
you may know how parenting goes with teenagers--some days it's all awesome and some days you wonder if anything you've ever said made it through.... so thank you for your kind words ❤️
I run into the same attitude, 'no politics, please' , from many people I encounter, or else I find myself being ignored when I bring up the subject (which I do every chance I get). What do I do, you ask?
I work at an abortion clinic and I warn my patients they will lose the choice they have to terminate an unwanted pregnancy if they ignore 'politics'. I help women register to vote.
I tell those who say 'no more politics', what will you do when authorities drag you from your home and throw you in prison for expressing your opinion?
Look at Russia. Look at what happens to those who say the word war, instead of conflict. How many hundreds of those people are sitting in some forsaken prison? It could be you. Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Look at Iran. How would you feel if they threw your daughter into prison for not wearing a head scarf, and then you discover she's dead? Do you still think religion has a place in our government? Make sure they're registered to vote, and vote.
Freedom is not free, and if informative discussion about the politics of this country and it's effects on our daily life are distasteful, make it personal because it is. Use your own relevant examples. Keep reminding others of what it will be like if the very basic freedoms we have are stripped away, because they will be if we choose not to participate. Do not stop when you're told 'no politics, please'. Keep up the discussion, and get others to participate. If you're losing their attention, try again later. But never stop. Democracy is only successful if everyone joins in.
Thanks so much for the work you are doing. You know you’re helping others-- and that inspires all of us to discover or identify new ways to make our friends, our families or communities better-- one person, one conversation at a time. A compassionate attitude straight forward attitude-- and willingness to invest your time in others can have a powerful ripple effect. thank you.....
Vote.
If the Republicans think they may overstep in their actions and not be held accountable by DOJ and a major part of the people of this country, let them think again.
Early on in your excellent commentary, you noted that, "... if Jordan goes too far here, he will be handing Democrats an argument regarding committee bias that will be easy for people with open minds to understand." I'm doing a bit of an eye-roll here, because we are only too aware that many people seem to have closed their minds to anything except MAGA and GQP nonsense. <sigh>
The GOP in the house are 7th graders and you’re belief that they will be uncomfortable with enforcing subpoenas is assuming any shred of adult behavior. The non election of the speaker showed they cannot see the forest for the trees. We are in for a tough ride as we watch the inmates run the asylum.
I have used that phrase “inmates running the asylum” so many times in the last 20 years.
In response to your question, how does our family handle talking politics? Our father died of Covid. This happened early on while Trump was denying Covid would be a problem for our country. Around that time I had read Germany denied Trump’s attempt, interest in investing in their Covid vaccine, stocks. I thought OMG he isn’t going to help us until he invests in vaccine stocks everywhere he can. Didn’t 100,000’s of people die from his slow response? Then he quarreled with our Michigan Governor Whitmer and tried to deny any help for her because she’s Democrat. Therefore it’s hard for me to not blame Trump for my Dad’s passing. Trump had the power to help but chose not to. It has been very hard for the many Republican members of my family to discuss politics now. I sense they wrestle with being faithful to Trump now, but they still try to defend him. They will not listen to the truth. They do not want to look at him as anything but their great business model. It’s been hard for them. But harder for me as I see the destruction that unfolds if power is put in the wrong hands.