Jul 17, 2023·edited Jul 17, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance
It keeps occurring to me: Trump may not be found guilty of anything, but in any case it seems very clear that our system can be taken down and he has blazed the trail.
WHY is Congress' collective hair not on fire to pass laws that cordon off these horrid gaps that have been exposed? Why is it so easy for someone to decide to take over and nearly make it happen? Could they give Ethics in Government some teeth? Election interference, something for emoluments, nepotism? What are they waiting for?
These gaps are forever going to be weak spots; if not for Trump, for the next like-minded aspirant.
Bonnie, I imagine you recall that throughout 21 & 22 the Democratically-controlled House passed a host of legislation, all of which, in one way or another, was aimed at instating increasingly more social and economic justice for increasingly larger numbers of people today who feel oppressed and marginalized by systemic oppressive forces that are largely beyond their individual control. Regrettably, virtually all of it was blocked in the 50-50 Senate and replaced by vastly edited down legislation that was able to pass despite receiving no support from Republicans.
Clearly, the remedy is retaking the House, not just holding the Senate but picking up more seats, and, of course, retaining the White House. Indeed, we also have to out-organize Republicans at the state and local level, but that conversation would lead me astray from your comment.
You are absolutely right, especially at the state and local levels. But the majorities need to be larger so that good legislation can't be watered down.
A larger issue is the Supreme Court, and the integrity of the Justices. They are an equal branch of government chosen in an underhanded way in order to advance a political agenda...NOT what the court is supposed to do. This problem needs to be fixed, and can only be accomplished if there is a hefty Democratic majority in both houses.
Joyce, your concern about DeSantis is my concern. He is trying to build a Nazi army, pure and simple. It brings shivers down my spine. Both of my parents were Holocaust victims. To see this little man spew garbage out of his mouth and have people react favorably, is reminiscent of how the Germans were easily convinced that Hitler would save them. DeSantis must be stopped immediately! I pray that the DOJ is taking notes and will squash this insect.
Retired National Guard Military Police Officer. DeSantis should seek additional support for the Florida National Guard, a professional and formally trained militial with Federal and State Missions. The State Mission focuses on domestic emergencies. DeSantis is clearly by-passing the intent of the National Guard to fuel his authortarian agenda. This will lead to great harm for citizens.
Celeste, I entirely agree with you and simply would add with respect to the High Court, that aside from instating a code of ethics, Congress, in my view, needs to expand the bench. Because I would want the process to be depoliticized, I would advocate amplifying that in 1869, when the number of justices was set at 9, there were 9 U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals (1 justice assigned to each). Today there are 13. Indeed, if down the road that number were to change, whichever party was in power would modify the number of justices accordingly.
Note I have said nothing about term limits because currently there is disagreement within the legal community as to whether said reform would require amending the Constitution. As a final point, it should be noted objective criteria also exist to justify expanding the lower federal courts.
I agree on what’s seen said. I didnt used to want term limits,and I still don’t for Congress, but the unelected and dangerous Extreme Court, I think an 18 year limit is appropriate. Immediately. That would rid us of Clarence Thomas immediately, and he can do his grift at some law firm. And Alito, I think the other most “senior” justice. Roberts might be next?
Of course none of this will happen if voters stay home. Maybe, just maybe, the egregiously racist, misogynist and bigoted decisions will be a motivator.
I'm 100% in favor of term limits for SCOTUS justices, but if they're enacted, there's zero chance they'll be applied retroactively. That would get us into 1984 territory: "Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."
Susanna, You’re absolutely right. Per my comment to Jen, no one who believes term limits could be enacted without amending the Constitution is proposing they “be applied retroactively.”
Jen, When I mentioned term limits, I was speaking about the Court. While some scholars have proposed, say, after 18 years that justices could be granted senior status and be rotated into the U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals yet still be available to sit temporarily on the High Court in the event of a retirement or a vacated seat, others have argued, based on their understanding of Article lll, that said proposal would be unconstitutional. Those who hold the latter view maintain that imposing term limits requires amending the Constitution, which would require a two-thirds majority in both Houses plus approval by three-fourths of the states. Accordingly, I have backed off proposing term limits until this dispute is resolved.
Do not back off. Term limits are a very reasonable proposition. The constitution has been amended in the past, and when appropriate, should be done again.
I agree with you. I brought up congress because there are a lot of commenters out there (don’t know if they are actual people) who propose them for congress, especially the Senate. Maybe I should rethink the Senate. Actually, having the voters decide in the case of Congress is still a good argument for me for Congress.
The People never get to decide about the Court, and I don’t think the “institutional knowledge” of decades of experience is at all important for the Court. It is for Congress.
I have been advocating for expanding the court equal to the number of U.S. Courts of Appeals. I've written to my Senators about this, and the President as well. I'll continue to do that, and with good voter turnout, we should be able to gain the majority in both houses...hopefully large enough to enact the changes needed in the SC. I, too, think term limits should be enacted along with ethics rules. The SC Justices need to behave with the highest moral and ethical standards and should be held accountable to them.
Celeste, Your reply mirrors a level of astuteness and commitment that could help even a casual reader to become more strategically astute and more determined.
this all day and night and into the Fall....we must expand the bench, MUST. This backsy forthsy garbage is enough to make me grow even more attractively silver hairs.
Congress's collective hair is not on fire because for about half of them, this is a feature, not a bug, and they've been working toward it since before the Reagan administration took office.
Bonnie, everything that Barbara Jo said is right on. I only want to add that the ultimate solution is organizing and electing quality candidates who will defend and fortify our democracy.
We, the voters, are the solution. And engaging voters in the need to be informed and take action by voting will always be a critical part of democracy to keep the authoritarians boxed in.
The "horrid gaps" often support the fascist and authortarian ideals of select members of Congress. The impotence of these politicians has permitted continual degradation of the rule of law in our society, hence normalizing deviance.
"Much as the Greatest Generation took on the fight against authoritarianism in Europe, we have to continue our work here. I’ve become increasingly resigned to that view, and I’m willing to accept the challenge because I believe that even though our form of government is not perfect, it is exceptional, and it has the power to be more so."
And We the People CANNOT afford to ever become complacent again, as we have veered very close to losing our democracy and the freedoms we have taken for granted. We must remain vigilant, and encourage the next generation to step forward to the challenge.
The Republican Party is going to have to be beaten in every election for the next 20 years to eiter knock this bullshit out of them or turn them into the 21st century Whigs.
I came to the conclusion on Jan 6 2021, that I will not be able to vote for a republican for at least the next 10 years, even though there are good ones, in order to "balance the ship". Makes me sad to feel this way especially for our younger generations.
So the story goes, Ben Franklin was walking out of Independence Hall after the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when someone shouted out, "Doctor, what have we got? A republic or a monarchy?"
To which Franklin supposedly responded, : "A republic, if you can keep it."
Hi Joyce, First amendment aside, if a regular person like me, without the financial and political power of Trump threatened judges or prosecutors then I would be locked up. So why does he get kid glove treatment. Thank you.
"Sitting members of Congress aiding and abetting a plot to overthrow the government. Insurrectionists criminally charged with plotting to end American democracy for good. Justice Department prosecutors under crushing political pressure. Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra is the all-but-forgotten true story of good, old-fashioned American extremism getting supercharged by proximity to power. When extremist elected officials get caught plotting against America with the violent ultra right, this is the story of the lengths they will go to… to cover their tracks."
The podcast can be found at or wherever you find your favorite podcasts:
And, this is not the first time. A reading of the book "A Fever in the Heartland" reads like the playbook for all these would be authoritarians like Trump and DeSantis.
We need to heed Joyce's words and wake up America.
Thank you Ms Vance. No matter which authoritarian is trying to control us it amounts to the same thing, ending our democracy, that is to say, ending our freedom. Our freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and it only gets worse. And just because, like me, you're white, doesn't mean you will be free. You won't. Unless you are willing to accept lesser education, the wholesale murder of innocents. Just because they are perceived as different, or liberal progressives or even just analytical thinkers. If you think State Guards are bad, wait until they turn into storm troops. Fascism took 20+ years to envelope Europe. We can't afford a repetition in America.
Such a great post, Joyce. I wrote nearly a 4 page booklet response, and I had to delete it. I am praying for patience and staying near and dear to family and reconsidering how my life will change - because all of us must maintain a new level of vigilance. Stay open-minded, listen, and proceed with caution. The celebration of making it through this pariah’s reign of consequential terror on all the rest of us will be the renewed gratitude we will have for the opportunity to make America, America, again.
We can still vote, and we can still help register new voters, but we now get fined for any mistakes. To err is human, except in floriduh, thanks to desatan.
I call it floriduh too. It's sad, isn't it? I've got several very liberal friends in floriduh, you all are the shiny blue dots, you'll have to create a code together. What happened to freedom of speech down there? Scary times--good luck to you!!
“It’s odd to reflect that, not long ago, Donald Trump’s photograph used to hang near the entry to every federal courthouse, every U.S. Attorney’s Office, and every federal law enforcement agency office in the country.” It’s certainly odd. “Yet he has no respect or regard for the people who enforce the law.” Indeed.
Of course DeSantis is going to use the “State Guard” as his private army. Imagining otherwise despite all the signs is magical thinking.
Hard to believe we’re quoting GWB… who lied us into two wars… on democracy or anything else, but here we are.
Absolutely necessary to address the character and actions of DeSantis in the serious way you did. How far did Trump go before, he was no longer treated as joke? My thought about DeSantis is that he needs Yevgeny Viktorovich Prigozhin to get his troops in order.
Joan, your warning speaks to the awful, lethal familiarity and strange 'reality'. in America today. DeSantis is a 'real' nightmare and Prigozhin/Putin the embodiment of that.
It keeps occurring to me: Trump may not be found guilty of anything, but in any case it seems very clear that our system can be taken down and he has blazed the trail.
WHY is Congress' collective hair not on fire to pass laws that cordon off these horrid gaps that have been exposed? Why is it so easy for someone to decide to take over and nearly make it happen? Could they give Ethics in Government some teeth? Election interference, something for emoluments, nepotism? What are they waiting for?
These gaps are forever going to be weak spots; if not for Trump, for the next like-minded aspirant.
Bonnie, I imagine you recall that throughout 21 & 22 the Democratically-controlled House passed a host of legislation, all of which, in one way or another, was aimed at instating increasingly more social and economic justice for increasingly larger numbers of people today who feel oppressed and marginalized by systemic oppressive forces that are largely beyond their individual control. Regrettably, virtually all of it was blocked in the 50-50 Senate and replaced by vastly edited down legislation that was able to pass despite receiving no support from Republicans.
Clearly, the remedy is retaking the House, not just holding the Senate but picking up more seats, and, of course, retaining the White House. Indeed, we also have to out-organize Republicans at the state and local level, but that conversation would lead me astray from your comment.
You are absolutely right, especially at the state and local levels. But the majorities need to be larger so that good legislation can't be watered down.
A larger issue is the Supreme Court, and the integrity of the Justices. They are an equal branch of government chosen in an underhanded way in order to advance a political agenda...NOT what the court is supposed to do. This problem needs to be fixed, and can only be accomplished if there is a hefty Democratic majority in both houses.
Joyce, your concern about DeSantis is my concern. He is trying to build a Nazi army, pure and simple. It brings shivers down my spine. Both of my parents were Holocaust victims. To see this little man spew garbage out of his mouth and have people react favorably, is reminiscent of how the Germans were easily convinced that Hitler would save them. DeSantis must be stopped immediately! I pray that the DOJ is taking notes and will squash this insect.
Retired National Guard Military Police Officer. DeSantis should seek additional support for the Florida National Guard, a professional and formally trained militial with Federal and State Missions. The State Mission focuses on domestic emergencies. DeSantis is clearly by-passing the intent of the National Guard to fuel his authortarian agenda. This will lead to great harm for citizens.
Celeste, I entirely agree with you and simply would add with respect to the High Court, that aside from instating a code of ethics, Congress, in my view, needs to expand the bench. Because I would want the process to be depoliticized, I would advocate amplifying that in 1869, when the number of justices was set at 9, there were 9 U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals (1 justice assigned to each). Today there are 13. Indeed, if down the road that number were to change, whichever party was in power would modify the number of justices accordingly.
Note I have said nothing about term limits because currently there is disagreement within the legal community as to whether said reform would require amending the Constitution. As a final point, it should be noted objective criteria also exist to justify expanding the lower federal courts.
I agree on what’s seen said. I didnt used to want term limits,and I still don’t for Congress, but the unelected and dangerous Extreme Court, I think an 18 year limit is appropriate. Immediately. That would rid us of Clarence Thomas immediately, and he can do his grift at some law firm. And Alito, I think the other most “senior” justice. Roberts might be next?
Of course none of this will happen if voters stay home. Maybe, just maybe, the egregiously racist, misogynist and bigoted decisions will be a motivator.
I'm 100% in favor of term limits for SCOTUS justices, but if they're enacted, there's zero chance they'll be applied retroactively. That would get us into 1984 territory: "Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."
Susanna, You’re absolutely right. Per my comment to Jen, no one who believes term limits could be enacted without amending the Constitution is proposing they “be applied retroactively.”
Jen, When I mentioned term limits, I was speaking about the Court. While some scholars have proposed, say, after 18 years that justices could be granted senior status and be rotated into the U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals yet still be available to sit temporarily on the High Court in the event of a retirement or a vacated seat, others have argued, based on their understanding of Article lll, that said proposal would be unconstitutional. Those who hold the latter view maintain that imposing term limits requires amending the Constitution, which would require a two-thirds majority in both Houses plus approval by three-fourths of the states. Accordingly, I have backed off proposing term limits until this dispute is resolved.
Do not back off. Term limits are a very reasonable proposition. The constitution has been amended in the past, and when appropriate, should be done again.
I agree with you. I brought up congress because there are a lot of commenters out there (don’t know if they are actual people) who propose them for congress, especially the Senate. Maybe I should rethink the Senate. Actually, having the voters decide in the case of Congress is still a good argument for me for Congress.
The People never get to decide about the Court, and I don’t think the “institutional knowledge” of decades of experience is at all important for the Court. It is for Congress.
I have been advocating for expanding the court equal to the number of U.S. Courts of Appeals. I've written to my Senators about this, and the President as well. I'll continue to do that, and with good voter turnout, we should be able to gain the majority in both houses...hopefully large enough to enact the changes needed in the SC. I, too, think term limits should be enacted along with ethics rules. The SC Justices need to behave with the highest moral and ethical standards and should be held accountable to them.
Celeste, Your reply mirrors a level of astuteness and commitment that could help even a casual reader to become more strategically astute and more determined.
this all day and night and into the Fall....we must expand the bench, MUST. This backsy forthsy garbage is enough to make me grow even more attractively silver hairs.
Congress's collective hair is not on fire because for about half of them, this is a feature, not a bug, and they've been working toward it since before the Reagan administration took office.
Two words - Moscow Mitch
Bonnie, everything that Barbara Jo said is right on. I only want to add that the ultimate solution is organizing and electing quality candidates who will defend and fortify our democracy.
We, the voters, are the solution. And engaging voters in the need to be informed and take action by voting will always be a critical part of democracy to keep the authoritarians boxed in.
I think he is pretty concerned about the documents that he took and hid.
The "horrid gaps" often support the fascist and authortarian ideals of select members of Congress. The impotence of these politicians has permitted continual degradation of the rule of law in our society, hence normalizing deviance.
Exactly right, this statement you made -
"Much as the Greatest Generation took on the fight against authoritarianism in Europe, we have to continue our work here. I’ve become increasingly resigned to that view, and I’m willing to accept the challenge because I believe that even though our form of government is not perfect, it is exceptional, and it has the power to be more so."
And We the People CANNOT afford to ever become complacent again, as we have veered very close to losing our democracy and the freedoms we have taken for granted. We must remain vigilant, and encourage the next generation to step forward to the challenge.
And vote 🗳️
Anyone who does not believe in the immense power of the people, remember Mauertag on November 10, when The Wall fell.
The Republican Party is going to have to be beaten in every election for the next 20 years to eiter knock this bullshit out of them or turn them into the 21st century Whigs.
I came to the conclusion on Jan 6 2021, that I will not be able to vote for a republican for at least the next 10 years, even though there are good ones, in order to "balance the ship". Makes me sad to feel this way especially for our younger generations.
Name a "good" republican?
I'm in favor of both, in either order, but I especially like knocking the BS out of them.
😂
Vote & Help Other People to Vote!
Joyce.....thank you for all the passion you put into your writing tonight. I wish things like this were daily headline news.
So the story goes, Ben Franklin was walking out of Independence Hall after the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when someone shouted out, "Doctor, what have we got? A republic or a monarchy?"
To which Franklin supposedly responded, : "A republic, if you can keep it."
Indeed.
Red states are you so dumb
In your ears do you have your thumbs
Causing pain with your new laws
Can’t you see what harm you cause
TommyTuberville in love with power
Go back to the gym and take a shower
Take Jim Jordan along with you
He could use a shower too
Trump -Jack Smith has interviewed all
your cronies
And he knows that you’re a phony
Everyone informed you that you lost the
election
Sorry you can’t deal with rejection
Didn’t have the decency to welcome
Biden to the Presidency
But left with documents quite venomously!!
Hi Joyce, First amendment aside, if a regular person like me, without the financial and political power of Trump threatened judges or prosecutors then I would be locked up. So why does he get kid glove treatment. Thank you.
He called for violence and added Obama's address. Jarring that a gag order did not follow.
I feel that authoritarian actions and fascism is alive and supported by many of the GOP controlled states. Scary scary times!
We’ve had them in Congress working to overthrow democracy in the late 30’s when Hitler was aspiring to power.
See: Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra
"Sitting members of Congress aiding and abetting a plot to overthrow the government. Insurrectionists criminally charged with plotting to end American democracy for good. Justice Department prosecutors under crushing political pressure. Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra is the all-but-forgotten true story of good, old-fashioned American extremism getting supercharged by proximity to power. When extremist elected officials get caught plotting against America with the violent ultra right, this is the story of the lengths they will go to… to cover their tracks."
The podcast can be found at or wherever you find your favorite podcasts:
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-presents-ultra
Agree, where is the 'dislike' button, or upside down heart? I want to 'like' this comment, but can't bring myself to 'heart' it.
So very true.
And, this is not the first time. A reading of the book "A Fever in the Heartland" reads like the playbook for all these would be authoritarians like Trump and DeSantis.
We need to heed Joyce's words and wake up America.
Great post as always and terrifying! Also, seems like the former president threatened the judge, in his way.
Absolutely he did. Just like he did with Raffensberger.
...and Pence.
The only thing missing on his comment was "Or else..."
Implied. Mafioso speak.
Thank you Ms Vance. No matter which authoritarian is trying to control us it amounts to the same thing, ending our democracy, that is to say, ending our freedom. Our freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and it only gets worse. And just because, like me, you're white, doesn't mean you will be free. You won't. Unless you are willing to accept lesser education, the wholesale murder of innocents. Just because they are perceived as different, or liberal progressives or even just analytical thinkers. If you think State Guards are bad, wait until they turn into storm troops. Fascism took 20+ years to envelope Europe. We can't afford a repetition in America.
Such a great post, Joyce. I wrote nearly a 4 page booklet response, and I had to delete it. I am praying for patience and staying near and dear to family and reconsidering how my life will change - because all of us must maintain a new level of vigilance. Stay open-minded, listen, and proceed with caution. The celebration of making it through this pariah’s reign of consequential terror on all the rest of us will be the renewed gratitude we will have for the opportunity to make America, America, again.
OK, but what can be done to stop DeSantis' state militia? Does he have to set the army against innocent people before anyone can act?
Is it unconstitutional what DeSantis is attempting? He’s trying to deceive everyone.
He's the governor of the state. He has the authority to
setup this militia/army because of the "wording" in
his proclamation: disaster response being primary as well as the fall off in the FL
Nat. Guard to help respond
to disasters. As reported
though, why you would need
hand to hand combat training
or carrying a side arm for a
natural disaster is a stretch,
until you get to his caveat of:
civil unrest and border protection/immigrants. Is
he expecting civil unrest
and a massive influx of
undocumented immigrants
from somewhere?
Right. This is what concerns me. He cannot attack people with a state army. But I don’t know what the constitutional limitations are.
I live in FL & I’m worried about this!
I think it hard to be liberal living in Florida. In fact being a normal conservative cannot be much less so.
Liberals can still vote in Florida the last I heard.
We can still vote, and we can still help register new voters, but we now get fined for any mistakes. To err is human, except in floriduh, thanks to desatan.
I call it floriduh too. It's sad, isn't it? I've got several very liberal friends in floriduh, you all are the shiny blue dots, you'll have to create a code together. What happened to freedom of speech down there? Scary times--good luck to you!!
Ty. We are on the front lines of fascism. Cloaked in the flag, carrying a cross.
yes, we are. Unbelievable, we took our freedoms for granted since WWII and now this is happening. :(
Scary in Florida DeSantis has changed so much in four years.
and a lot of floridians aren't paying attention, or like it. :( It is very scary.
“It’s odd to reflect that, not long ago, Donald Trump’s photograph used to hang near the entry to every federal courthouse, every U.S. Attorney’s Office, and every federal law enforcement agency office in the country.” It’s certainly odd. “Yet he has no respect or regard for the people who enforce the law.” Indeed.
Of course DeSantis is going to use the “State Guard” as his private army. Imagining otherwise despite all the signs is magical thinking.
Hard to believe we’re quoting GWB… who lied us into two wars… on democracy or anything else, but here we are.
DeSantis got that idea from 45. He’s a copycat.
And brown shirts from Hitler.
Absolutely necessary to address the character and actions of DeSantis in the serious way you did. How far did Trump go before, he was no longer treated as joke? My thought about DeSantis is that he needs Yevgeny Viktorovich Prigozhin to get his troops in order.
Watch for it. Could happen.
Joan, your warning speaks to the awful, lethal familiarity and strange 'reality'. in America today. DeSantis is a 'real' nightmare and Prigozhin/Putin the embodiment of that.
Thanks for the update on RD “disaster assistance force”. No question, he is a danger to America.