Jul 24, 2023·edited Jul 24, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance
It's odd to see a body of people as in the photo that are all so white. I see 1 woman, but she's not but one voice. Doesn't bode well for minority voices.
It seems the new norm is to just do what one wants. Create your own reality, snub the law and the judges, make-up your own rules. Trump set that standard, and it feels like we can never go back. Loopholes have become the rule of law. Honor system and protocol are so passe'.
To use a knitting analogy, it feels like everything is unraveling.
Not only are these dudes white, the most glaring thing is that they all look alike and have the same barber and go to the same haberdashery. A twinge of fear happened when I looked at that photo.
I understand your comment and agree with its sentiment, but it raises an interesting implication: do we view the population of Alabama as "just people" or always through the lens of race. Race seems to be the reality of it despite John Roberts demand that life be color blind.
If you are a white male, you may not have experienced the feeling of being "different". In a country where whites prevail, being in these times, and being in Alabama, it just automatically makes those not represented feel like there is a thumb on the scale. Consider if this were a jury and the defendant were a woman or a person of color. I think it is easy for John Roberts to demand things of life, but until we stop seeing groups like this, we aren't there yet.
Being color blind is no answer and preposterous on its face. We can obviously see the color of a woman’s skin, right? What we need to see is that the color of her skin does not her different make.
I think I may not have expressed myself very well. Bonnie, Abigail, and you might have not caught what I was getting at.
Yes, I'm a white male; and yes, this country is as racist as it was in 1830 and before. But the governments we install are supposed to be colorblind, gender neutral, and non-discriminatory. They are supposed to govern for and serve all the people. Thus, it is not supposed to care if 34% of its constituents are black, or if 51% are women, or 3% identify as something other than binary, or if 66% are white. The Venn diagram of "the people" is supposed to be a single circle.
On the other hand, if one's point is that the government should look like us--i.e. reflect the diversity of the population it governs--I would heartily agree that that mix of life experiences among our legislators and executives would make for a better mix of ideas, result in better policies, and produce a more legitimate and respected brand of governance (even if the mix is not mathematically apportioned exactly). I doubt that John Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and the other radical right ideologues on their bench would agree. Being members of the white power broker class, they have the luxury to erase race from all consideration.
Seems that way because it’s propaganda and noise. We must call out these tactics at every turn. There is no place for fear if the only way to save the ship is to stand steadfast and grow this coalition with vigilance and talking to the representatives who will listen and give them courage to know we support their efforts every day as we do here with Joyce.
White supremacy. Think about it. Our history has always favored white men over women and all other minorities. But because as the last census shows, women and minorities are and will continue their pursuit for equality in all levels of democracy and eventually get to the promised land as MLK talked about. An inevitable shift is taking place no matter how hard the antiquated order prevails. And it’s all about love and because of these ongoing serious threats to physical survival on the planet we must unite for this sacred goal to save the planet and ourselves.
Never say never. The new norm will shift when people realize 45 would govern like Putin and Mussolini and Hitler. How we burst their bubble? Watch the war in Ukraine day by day. This is not what the majority of all Americans want.
Judge Cannon knew what she was doing when she postponed the date for nearly a year on an open and shut case. I guess we can only wait and see for Jack smith’s response. The situation in Alabama should be considered insurrection.
Thanks Joyce, not an easy but necessarily necessary read!
Mine also. I have no faith in this judge’s ability to preside fairly over this case. She will side with Trump or give him as much leeway as possible that this case will just disappear into the past with no trial. Can’t say I feel the same about the J6 charges.
Or, whenever Fani Willis feels moved enough to actual file something. Imminent has a completely different meaning in GA. Like 7 months worth of down time is hardly “on the brink”.
Alabama is a disgrace to this nation. Always has been. Elected officials trying to keep a grip on their white supremacy power by any means necessary. Must we send the National Guard to see to it a fairly elected black mayor does not have his power usurped? That a POC was fairly elected in the first place is actually such a conflict of interests that may very well bite white supremacy in the ass.
19 governors in red states sending letters of intent they intend to pursue women’s health records for the purpose of charging them with illegally obtaining an abortion in states where it IS legal. Think about that, that means all women’s health records of child bearing age. I expect they’ll expand it to any women who’s had an abortion, ever. Not permitted to leave your uterus chasing state cause you pregnant. Not a funeral, a vacation, celebrating holidays. You’re stuck until you birth a baby. What about tubal ligations? Does that make you a criminal?
How come vasectomies are still legal? Logically those should also be illegal, but they’re not. Men in general have no responsibility/consequences in any of this?
The women are 100 % accountable for another person’s actions? Let’s kick this bullshit to the curb. Women, do as you please. If the entire state of Alabama can thumb their nose at the SCOTUS, so can the entire female population.
Evangelicals who have enjoyed way too much political power for far, far to long can have as many children they can during their childbearing years. So why is their nose in your personal decisions?
IMHO Vasectomies should be mandatory at the onset of puberty. Once a man can demonstrate he has the emotional maturity and the financial wherewithal to care for a child as well as a willing and able partner, he could apply to have the vasectomy reversed.
Sound draconian? It is. But then so is telling women what to do with their bodies.
Since all unplanned/unwanted pregnancies start with sperm deposited into the vagina, mandatory vasectomies would solve the problem.
My sister and I, both retired educators, have this discussion practically verbatim often. Our other sister, also an educator still working in OH at 70 years old always agrees wholeheartedly. The general public doesn’t see day to day what public school K-12 educators see. The custodians, the food service people, secretaries can verify it’s not just teachers who see and lament these unfortunate situations.
We see generational problems play over and over. If you’re going to try to improve society over all, this is a good place to start.
Yes, send the National Guard to ensure that the lawfully elected mayor can execute his duties. Will we have another Wilmington insurrection if Black citizens fight back?
They are writing their own political obituary! The evangelicals have captured the Rs though they did it with only 20% because they have committed members who will vote for the socialist party if their leaders tell them that the Rs abandoned the evangelical instructions! So these poitical R cowards in Congress put themselves first and only and go along! When I was in the Virginia Legislature and working for Paul Simon in the Senate, there were some like these Rs but certainly not all particularly not among Ds but also some principled Rs. The Rs are writing their own obit is because GenZ has increased by 34M--yes, Million and 2.5 M old white Rs died in the last 8 years! By 26 they will completely control the national majority and in 28 it's over for many Rs even in Red states.
The problem is, there are worse judges. It's like roulette, even though it looks like the deck was stacked in his favor. Jack Smith wants the conviction to be beyond reproach, so my guess is he's giving them (and Cannon) just enough latitude to make mistakes. And then he will ask.
Jul 24, 2023·edited Jul 24, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance
Yes Joyce, people need to have the perception that justice is fairly applied. The social contract that holds a civil society from sliding into lawless chaos is appearing null and void- not just for the most oppressed and justice denied, discriminated against among us, but for a growing number of white middle class citizens who see a corrupt justice system from the Supreme Court all the way down to the local corrupt politicians in Georgia run roughshod over our rights. Plus, the DOJ has also lost its moral authority as a bulwark of the social contract via the pathetic, fear driven negligence to not have prosecuted trump for 2 1/2 years. Many Middle class citizens are feeling like chumps for playing by the rules while the whole justice system is in growing decay. The social contract collapses when law abiding citizens feel they are stupid to obey the law when so many others, from a president and suprem court Justice on down get no consequences.
Really great explanation of why the courts must be so careful with their reputation and make sure the public has confidence in their integrity. The courts came through 2020 in good shape, but lately, not so much.
Thanks Joyce. Yes, there’s a fateful tipping point where the public is at risk to just give up on the courts and equal justice in general, and if that happens a dangerous apathy sets in that says what’s the use in even voting anymore- or being engaged in civic life at all because of the perceived corruption. That kind of cynical alienation puts democracy itself at risk.
Neither the social contract nor the DOJ has collapsed. Shortly after J6 tfg-ed insurrection I signed up for the DOJ's J6 Prosecution Teams' updates on the successful prosecution of now over 1000 Defendants including the "Leaders of the Pack" convicted of Seditious Conspiracy.
This morning I received 4 new DOJ email updates with the names, city of arrest, complete details & Docket status of each & new Defendant. When I say "complete", I mean charging declarations, criminal "informations", complaints, & amended complaints if necessary. All of this ADMISSIBLE evidence will be marshaled against "Co-conspirator No 1" in the "speaking indictment" prepared by Jack Smith which we may see as early as this week. Read the charging allegations & understand the diligent work by many folks to bring this case to Trial with ADMISSIBLE evidence properly required under our Constitutional system of Due Process.
Just say it, the Wheels of Justice move to slowly for you but, let Jack Smith roll it to you.
We must let Joyce give an explanation to the judicial machinations that tRump has played for 60 years (I’ll give him before 18 to not have) on America and how to run by the rule of law and insure any verdict is virtually appeal proof means - time wasted to get to justice.
No one has received such deference, but when you aim for “the king” our President the body politic must be with a good portion of that. DJT has expertly played his carny barking cards on his marks. He’s perfected that grievance, exploitive, fear mongering model to protect himself.
Wrong turn guys. You are under estimating the impact of the father Drump & Roy Cohn as well as the death of tfg's older brother from alcohol. I defer to Mary Trump.
There are those who believe he is a confidential informant. And that he is being protected by the very same justice system that we are complaining so vociferously about here. Such a notion runs counter to my Occam's razor brain - I am no conspiracy theorist. But there must be some kind of explanation for his continuous escaping from justice.
When Mueller -- who previously ran Trump as CI -- was appointed, Trump's, not realizing that DOJ ethos sealed his history -- said, "Oh, shit, now I'm done for". But of course Mueller could never reveal that prior association.
That is exactly what autocrats are counting on. That is why it is critical we focus on putting pressure on our representatives who will listen and vote in upcoming elections and unite where we still can.
As I mentioned, DOJ has failed to prosecute trump for his coup attempt for over 2 1/2 years now because of fear to do so. That’s too long a time to let the unwritten social contract between citizen’s and government that crucially depends on equal treatment under the law to deteriorate. DOJ risked and has lost its moral authority as a failed bulwark to protect the social contract. In doing so, DOJ has reinforced a pervasive 2 tier justice system becoming the perception of a critical mass of citizens. Joyce warned today of how vital it is that there not be a public perception of unequal application of justice. I believe the phrase “justice delayed is justice denied” is the true emotional feeling now for a growing number of citizens.
I get that and I feel that way as well. But I trust we will find our way amidst this growing unrest. How will we effectively put enough pressure on SCOTUS to rule fairly without following the money. How?
Merrick Garland proved unequal to the task of protecting democracy.
The FBI actually refused to investigate the leaders of the attempted coup.
The failure to act for more than 2 years - while the coup plotters raised a war chest and kept spreading the underlying election lies - has done grave damage.
My only hope is that there is a robust indictment and a DC jury locks TFG up for the rest of his life.
Otherwise this country will be destroyed by the Republicans.
Why is it if you steal a loaf of bread you can be immediately arrested and detained until trial, but if you completely ignore a court-mandated redistricting plan, nothing happens? Isn’t it illegal and more egregious?
It’s likely your question was intended to be rhetorical but I’m going to be a “scoff law” (😀) and answer it anyway. It’s not because one act is illegal and the other is not, they both are illegal. It because 99 times out of 100, the person who stole the bread is poor (otherwise they wouldn’t be stealing food) and therefore cannot afford the type of lawyer that can get him out of the charges. But the person who tried to steal an election and implement an insurrection and coup can pay for teams of lawyers, and all sorts of other bribes and pay offs so they never have to face true accountability since in their mind accountability only applies to suckers, losers, and poor people.
A little rhetorical. Eric Garner was killed by police for selling loose cigarettes. Your comment, as well as Marycat below, basically covers what I’m saying.
Yes, similarly George Floyd was killed by Derek Chauvin because he allegedly tried to pay for cigarettes with a counterfeit $20 dollar bill. But at least Chauvin was convicted and went to prison. Pantaleo was only fired for murdering Gardner and he had the audacity to sue NYPD to get his job back which thankfully he did not win.
I think you've missed the mark here. Nobody gets detained for stealing small items unless they have an extensive record and are likely to abscond. Most crimes have a bail in accordance with the law, or at least a pretrial supervision such as house arrest or electronic monitoring, or both. From the beginning, both Trump and Nauta have been ROR'd, which for a case as serious as stealing secret documents seems a little weird to me. Trump is free to travel and even live at his Bedminster golf club. Both defendants are allowed to keep their passports while the case is pending. This is preferential treatment.
As for ignoring redistricting, there is no real penalty for it because courts are reluctant to mess with legislatures over what they see as issues better left up to the voters to decide. This is why racist policies are flourishing.
Thank you for this thread Joyce. It braids together several concerns about integrity of justices in our judicial system. In my experience as a BA I did not doubt the justices. Now I have no trust left. Each time a justice follows the law in a case in the news I feel nothing. I know Ailleen Canon is protecting Trump and SCOTUS is destroying the fabric of the protections of my womanhood and diversity. No other justices' actions will make up for that.
Expat, I share all your numbered concerns. Consider the following:
No. 3, tfg increased the threat of violence over the last week. Pence & others gave up on the judicial system on Sunday, 7 /23. This from a guy hiding from a noose on J6. I learned on the playground & "in the halls of justice" never give into tne threat of violence. As a retired lawyer with over 30 years of litigation & trial work. I am still an active ABA member; I will never give up on our judicial system.
Timely trials before jurors is also essential to amy democratic republic ... "if you can keep it." Did not John Adams teach us this with his successful defense before a jury of two (2) redcoats at the Boston Massacre? That before 1776!
1. Vote while Section 2 of the VRA still exists.
2. On the threat of pardons & get out of jail cards, see my comment on No. 3 above. Ditto.
4. Our judicial systrm is actually made of human beings, jurors, judges, witnesses inder oath, licensed attorneys, Court clerks, armed sheriffs & Court reporters, There folks are not machinery. What ... forgetabout- it? I will not - never.
5. Agree.
Otherwise, I fear we will create more expatriates.
I read somewhere last night that in a recent poll, 69% of Americans disapprove of him. I'm not a big fan of polls, especially this far ahead of Nov. 2024, but I think it looks like voters are starting to pay attention to what's going on.
Trump lost in 2020. He ran against a guy who beat him by over 7.5 million votes, and by a near-landslide electoral victory. Since then, things have only gone to hell for Trump. He's running again because not doing so would make him a "loser." He is so beholden to the radical right wing that he has to run. The GOP can't even get rid of him; they made a deal with the devil.
The Republican party is what should be dealt with right now, because they are the danger. Trump is mostly a figurehead; he only wants retribution, the 2024 election is his revenge tour.
There is a new book out by Miles Taylor called “Blowback.” Taylor worked in TFG’s administration and recounts the many ways 45 failed the American people.
I'm not worried about Judge Cannon or the documents case at all. It may be the easiest case to prove, but it is also the most trivial, compared to the massive treason surrounding January 6.
And the indictment for those crimes will be filed in the District of Columbia, where the federal courts have demonstrated how comfortable they are with proceeding expeditiously where Trump is concerned.
Once that indictment is filed, its gravity will draw so much national attention and concern that the documents case will be almost forgotten.
True. In theory, the documents case could bring a prison sentence, but it's not likely with Aileen Cannon presiding over the case. We already know she's a MAGA judge.
On the other hand, Trump unleashed mayhem on Jan. 6th, in hopes of staying in power. People died. He urged them to show up on Jan. 6th, encouraged violence, and armed gangs of thugs such as the Oath Keepers and Patriot Front showed up with piles of firearms stashed in hotel rooms and vehicles. Some of these operatives have received 18 to 25 year sentences for seditious conspiracy. It only makes sense that Trump will also be sentenced to a term in prison.
I completely agree; the “insurrection” should be first priority and if TFG found guilty (as we know he is) he will not accede to the presidency. I’d put my eggs in that basket and run with it. Considering your chickens, Joyce, and bless your restraint in posting these highly charged failings of justice in your state and mine as you must be impartial even as you teach and reside in AL. How difficult this must be for you. I love AL and my experience of it but these failings bring tears to my eyes for my Black friends, neighbors, patients in AL. 🥲
So true. Owned a home in SC for a dozen years. Confederate Flags frequently flown or displayed with great pride. No one says anything to the contrary.
Democrats struggle mightily to remain sane. It was the first time I understood disenfranchisement -- it is a terrible combination of impotence and waste.
Virginia is no different. And they are also into vulgar signs on their houses, their cars, their clothing. Ignorant and proud of it apparently. Can't get away from it.
And, SC was first to secede pre-Civil War. I certainly toook note of Tump's 2016 R Primary win in EVERY SC county across the State at around 32% for djt to mark the rise of the Autocrat. Now looking for data that will demonstrate that 32% has shrunk or will shrink over time, Unity as a Country, the United States.
In the late 70's my sister lived in Myrtle Beach. She told me that the racism is so open, and rampant, and that there were confederate flags flying even on state buildings.
I'm willing to bet the people don't know the state's history but keep the myths alive. It's why people say the south is still fighting the Civil War. I just can't understand it. I spent my first half of childhood living in Florida and never understood the racism. My father, who died when I was 9, was buried in a "whites only" cemetery, as if being buried next to a Black man was so offensive that the cemetery put this part of the deed to my dad's burial plot in writing.
I actually have a prejudice against white male southern politicians. They can pretend all they want, but history doesn't lie.
Again, George: “In contemplating the causes wch may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern, that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by Geographical discriminations—Northern and Southern—Atlantic and Western;13 whence designing men may endeavour to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence, within particular districts, is to misrepresent the opinions & aims of other Districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heart burnings which spring from these misrepresentations.” Be careful staring into the abyss.
I agree with you on the need for the courts to act with speed and equality, but the difference between fair and equal often feels unequal from the cheap seats.
America is being tested once again. We can never take it for granted. Liberty is a fragile lady and we must rally the cause to protect her. Taking her for granted will no longer work until we do the work our forefathers knew we would have to do.
JEN PSAKI interviewed NEAL KATYAL on 7/23 who is Thumbs-up ! onJ6 charging count. 18 US Section 241, Conspiracy Against [Citizen's] Rights [ protected by our Constitution or Federal Law]..
Yes! I am ignoring Ms. Cannon's trump-ette because it appears to me that the brilliant and accomplished Jack Smith has never expected a timely win there. tRump will go down long before the election via the D.C. J6 insurrection trial and in his attempt to overturn the Georgia election. Then there's New York, and...
I'll be interested to learn whether Thomas and Alito curb their extravagant vacationing. Thankfully, there will be reporters out there who will be doing their jobs and looking for the ethical lapses that don't seem to engender any reaction from Roberts or their colleagues. This whole Supreme imbroglio highlights the importance of an independent press - and it further highlights the dangers of having all the press power concentrated in a few (undemocratic) hands like FOX.
My gut reaction to “the integrity of the court” is that we’ve gone over the cliff here. The Roberts Court faces no accountability from any corner but that of the Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo. They are immune to any other reckoning, and as such will/ are making new law as if they were Pharisees. Congress is not able to stop them. States will do what they please and that momentum is growing
The unraveling of settled law will continue as the Gang of Six write increasingly absurd rulings that defy embarrassment. Confidence in the Court??? Why should they care what the public thinks? We have no say in the matter. Leonard Leo bought them. Its to him they obey
The ignoring of the ruling by the Supreme Court by Alabama legislators is interesting. If they get away with it why would any past or future ruling have any standing.
The problem with Alabama is we didn't kill enough of the Confederate traitors when we had the chance to alter the gene pool. Same with the rest of the South.
It's odd to see a body of people as in the photo that are all so white. I see 1 woman, but she's not but one voice. Doesn't bode well for minority voices.
It seems the new norm is to just do what one wants. Create your own reality, snub the law and the judges, make-up your own rules. Trump set that standard, and it feels like we can never go back. Loopholes have become the rule of law. Honor system and protocol are so passe'.
To use a knitting analogy, it feels like everything is unraveling.
My first thought exactly at seeing that Alabama photo! About 34% of Alabamans are NOT white!. Who is representing them?
Not only are these dudes white, the most glaring thing is that they all look alike and have the same barber and go to the same haberdashery. A twinge of fear happened when I looked at that photo.
The unhooded Klan come to mind maybe?
And are pretty much the same "older" generation as a lot of our Congressmen & Senators!
Good old boys.
They all look alike? They all need a DIET! Dreadful!
I understand your comment and agree with its sentiment, but it raises an interesting implication: do we view the population of Alabama as "just people" or always through the lens of race. Race seems to be the reality of it despite John Roberts demand that life be color blind.
Fred, the R's want to erase all but whites, and primarily men. Roberts is second only to Uncle Thomas in his slanted views. IMO.
If you are a white male, you may not have experienced the feeling of being "different". In a country where whites prevail, being in these times, and being in Alabama, it just automatically makes those not represented feel like there is a thumb on the scale. Consider if this were a jury and the defendant were a woman or a person of color. I think it is easy for John Roberts to demand things of life, but until we stop seeing groups like this, we aren't there yet.
Roberts is speaking for his and his wife’s bank accounts.
Being color blind is no answer and preposterous on its face. We can obviously see the color of a woman’s skin, right? What we need to see is that the color of her skin does not her different make.
Let me guess, you're a white man?
I think I may not have expressed myself very well. Bonnie, Abigail, and you might have not caught what I was getting at.
Yes, I'm a white male; and yes, this country is as racist as it was in 1830 and before. But the governments we install are supposed to be colorblind, gender neutral, and non-discriminatory. They are supposed to govern for and serve all the people. Thus, it is not supposed to care if 34% of its constituents are black, or if 51% are women, or 3% identify as something other than binary, or if 66% are white. The Venn diagram of "the people" is supposed to be a single circle.
On the other hand, if one's point is that the government should look like us--i.e. reflect the diversity of the population it governs--I would heartily agree that that mix of life experiences among our legislators and executives would make for a better mix of ideas, result in better policies, and produce a more legitimate and respected brand of governance (even if the mix is not mathematically apportioned exactly). I doubt that John Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and the other radical right ideologues on their bench would agree. Being members of the white power broker class, they have the luxury to erase race from all consideration.
We caught it and your misogyny is no surprise. So typical. Just stop talking and listen.
Mine too! Exactly..
Picture is worth a thousand words. It's from the GOP Senate caucus's website. Their picture of themselves.
Nice for their Christmas cards to voters and donors?
Yes. A similar looking bunch.
There is another knitting term called frogging, intentionally unraveling a work in progress, which seems to be what’s happening here.
Maybe a new word that seems to fit better could be "toading". Not to insult amphibians...
Seems that way because it’s propaganda and noise. We must call out these tactics at every turn. There is no place for fear if the only way to save the ship is to stand steadfast and grow this coalition with vigilance and talking to the representatives who will listen and give them courage to know we support their efforts every day as we do here with Joyce.
Not only the glaring whiteness, but is anyone in that picture under age 50?
White supremacy. Think about it. Our history has always favored white men over women and all other minorities. But because as the last census shows, women and minorities are and will continue their pursuit for equality in all levels of democracy and eventually get to the promised land as MLK talked about. An inevitable shift is taking place no matter how hard the antiquated order prevails. And it’s all about love and because of these ongoing serious threats to physical survival on the planet we must unite for this sacred goal to save the planet and ourselves.
Yes, TutoneSF. It is all about love.
Never say never. The new norm will shift when people realize 45 would govern like Putin and Mussolini and Hitler. How we burst their bubble? Watch the war in Ukraine day by day. This is not what the majority of all Americans want.
"The banality of evil.".. Hannah Arendt.
Judge Cannon knew what she was doing when she postponed the date for nearly a year on an open and shut case. I guess we can only wait and see for Jack smith’s response. The situation in Alabama should be considered insurrection.
Thanks Joyce, not an easy but necessarily necessary read!
IMHO Cannon should have been replaced at the very start. The whole thing is tainted by her presence.
Mine also. I have no faith in this judge’s ability to preside fairly over this case. She will side with Trump or give him as much leeway as possible that this case will just disappear into the past with no trial. Can’t say I feel the same about the J6 charges.
Or, whenever Fani Willis feels moved enough to actual file something. Imminent has a completely different meaning in GA. Like 7 months worth of down time is hardly “on the brink”.
Alabama is a disgrace to this nation. Always has been. Elected officials trying to keep a grip on their white supremacy power by any means necessary. Must we send the National Guard to see to it a fairly elected black mayor does not have his power usurped? That a POC was fairly elected in the first place is actually such a conflict of interests that may very well bite white supremacy in the ass.
19 governors in red states sending letters of intent they intend to pursue women’s health records for the purpose of charging them with illegally obtaining an abortion in states where it IS legal. Think about that, that means all women’s health records of child bearing age. I expect they’ll expand it to any women who’s had an abortion, ever. Not permitted to leave your uterus chasing state cause you pregnant. Not a funeral, a vacation, celebrating holidays. You’re stuck until you birth a baby. What about tubal ligations? Does that make you a criminal?
How come vasectomies are still legal? Logically those should also be illegal, but they’re not. Men in general have no responsibility/consequences in any of this?
The women are 100 % accountable for another person’s actions? Let’s kick this bullshit to the curb. Women, do as you please. If the entire state of Alabama can thumb their nose at the SCOTUS, so can the entire female population.
Evangelicals who have enjoyed way too much political power for far, far to long can have as many children they can during their childbearing years. So why is their nose in your personal decisions?
IMHO Vasectomies should be mandatory at the onset of puberty. Once a man can demonstrate he has the emotional maturity and the financial wherewithal to care for a child as well as a willing and able partner, he could apply to have the vasectomy reversed.
Sound draconian? It is. But then so is telling women what to do with their bodies.
Since all unplanned/unwanted pregnancies start with sperm deposited into the vagina, mandatory vasectomies would solve the problem.
My sister and I, both retired educators, have this discussion practically verbatim often. Our other sister, also an educator still working in OH at 70 years old always agrees wholeheartedly. The general public doesn’t see day to day what public school K-12 educators see. The custodians, the food service people, secretaries can verify it’s not just teachers who see and lament these unfortunate situations.
We see generational problems play over and over. If you’re going to try to improve society over all, this is a good place to start.
I’m sure that Viagra and Cialis are covered under most health insurance, but there are threats to contraception.
Yes, send the National Guard to ensure that the lawfully elected mayor can execute his duties. Will we have another Wilmington insurrection if Black citizens fight back?
They are writing their own political obituary! The evangelicals have captured the Rs though they did it with only 20% because they have committed members who will vote for the socialist party if their leaders tell them that the Rs abandoned the evangelical instructions! So these poitical R cowards in Congress put themselves first and only and go along! When I was in the Virginia Legislature and working for Paul Simon in the Senate, there were some like these Rs but certainly not all particularly not among Ds but also some principled Rs. The Rs are writing their own obit is because GenZ has increased by 34M--yes, Million and 2.5 M old white Rs died in the last 8 years! By 26 they will completely control the national majority and in 28 it's over for many Rs even in Red states.
I agree, no matter what excuses are made Judge Cannon should have recused. Completely tainted in favor of Trump
Only upside is if she presides and he is found guilty, no one can say it was "rigged".
The problem is, there are worse judges. It's like roulette, even though it looks like the deck was stacked in his favor. Jack Smith wants the conviction to be beyond reproach, so my guess is he's giving them (and Cannon) just enough latitude to make mistakes. And then he will ask.
Cannon is the same trumpist. Doing stepwise to limit risk of being appealed to 11th circuit and getting strike 3.
An ethical person with judicial temperament would have recused.
I’m hoping we can get Cannon out of there before she goes too far.
Spot on Christopher.
Yes Joyce, people need to have the perception that justice is fairly applied. The social contract that holds a civil society from sliding into lawless chaos is appearing null and void- not just for the most oppressed and justice denied, discriminated against among us, but for a growing number of white middle class citizens who see a corrupt justice system from the Supreme Court all the way down to the local corrupt politicians in Georgia run roughshod over our rights. Plus, the DOJ has also lost its moral authority as a bulwark of the social contract via the pathetic, fear driven negligence to not have prosecuted trump for 2 1/2 years. Many Middle class citizens are feeling like chumps for playing by the rules while the whole justice system is in growing decay. The social contract collapses when law abiding citizens feel they are stupid to obey the law when so many others, from a president and suprem court Justice on down get no consequences.
Really great explanation of why the courts must be so careful with their reputation and make sure the public has confidence in their integrity. The courts came through 2020 in good shape, but lately, not so much.
Thanks Joyce. Yes, there’s a fateful tipping point where the public is at risk to just give up on the courts and equal justice in general, and if that happens a dangerous apathy sets in that says what’s the use in even voting anymore- or being engaged in civic life at all because of the perceived corruption. That kind of cynical alienation puts democracy itself at risk.
But that is exactly what the autocrats want.
This is an excellent example of exactly how I feel. Thank you for articulating it so well.
You’re welcome Cathy. Thanks for your affirming comment.
Neither the social contract nor the DOJ has collapsed. Shortly after J6 tfg-ed insurrection I signed up for the DOJ's J6 Prosecution Teams' updates on the successful prosecution of now over 1000 Defendants including the "Leaders of the Pack" convicted of Seditious Conspiracy.
This morning I received 4 new DOJ email updates with the names, city of arrest, complete details & Docket status of each & new Defendant. When I say "complete", I mean charging declarations, criminal "informations", complaints, & amended complaints if necessary. All of this ADMISSIBLE evidence will be marshaled against "Co-conspirator No 1" in the "speaking indictment" prepared by Jack Smith which we may see as early as this week. Read the charging allegations & understand the diligent work by many folks to bring this case to Trial with ADMISSIBLE evidence properly required under our Constitutional system of Due Process.
Just say it, the Wheels of Justice move to slowly for you but, let Jack Smith roll it to you.
👍
Thanks Bryan...There is hope in the detail! "Something" is happening and at quite a pace. Thanks for providing those reassuring details!
We must let Joyce give an explanation to the judicial machinations that tRump has played for 60 years (I’ll give him before 18 to not have) on America and how to run by the rule of law and insure any verdict is virtually appeal proof means - time wasted to get to justice.
No one has received such deference, but when you aim for “the king” our President the body politic must be with a good portion of that. DJT has expertly played his carny barking cards on his marks. He’s perfected that grievance, exploitive, fear mongering model to protect himself.
Wrong turn guys. You are under estimating the impact of the father Drump & Roy Cohn as well as the death of tfg's older brother from alcohol. I defer to Mary Trump.
There are those who believe he is a confidential informant. And that he is being protected by the very same justice system that we are complaining so vociferously about here. Such a notion runs counter to my Occam's razor brain - I am no conspiracy theorist. But there must be some kind of explanation for his continuous escaping from justice.
When Mueller -- who previously ran Trump as CI -- was appointed, Trump's, not realizing that DOJ ethos sealed his history -- said, "Oh, shit, now I'm done for". But of course Mueller could never reveal that prior association.
It's the whole entire plan--Anarchy.
That is exactly what autocrats are counting on. That is why it is critical we focus on putting pressure on our representatives who will listen and vote in upcoming elections and unite where we still can.
By saying DOJ has lost its moral authority adds to a misunderstood perception that it’s not doing its job responsibly and that’s unfair.
As I mentioned, DOJ has failed to prosecute trump for his coup attempt for over 2 1/2 years now because of fear to do so. That’s too long a time to let the unwritten social contract between citizen’s and government that crucially depends on equal treatment under the law to deteriorate. DOJ risked and has lost its moral authority as a failed bulwark to protect the social contract. In doing so, DOJ has reinforced a pervasive 2 tier justice system becoming the perception of a critical mass of citizens. Joyce warned today of how vital it is that there not be a public perception of unequal application of justice. I believe the phrase “justice delayed is justice denied” is the true emotional feeling now for a growing number of citizens.
Am I the only one who doesn’t think 2+ years is a long time in this most intricate, unusual case?
Furthermore I think Jack Smith may have purposely tossed the documents case to the wind of Chance in order to drive the DC and Georgia cases home.
I get that and I feel that way as well. But I trust we will find our way amidst this growing unrest. How will we effectively put enough pressure on SCOTUS to rule fairly without following the money. How?
DOJ has failed us.
Merrick Garland proved unequal to the task of protecting democracy.
The FBI actually refused to investigate the leaders of the attempted coup.
The failure to act for more than 2 years - while the coup plotters raised a war chest and kept spreading the underlying election lies - has done grave damage.
My only hope is that there is a robust indictment and a DC jury locks TFG up for the rest of his life.
Otherwise this country will be destroyed by the Republicans.
To summarize, we are toast.
Not yet.
Good Lord, my flabber is completely gasted with that situation in Newbern.
I don't understand all of the state/federal things you're laying out there, but it seems like the federal marshals should be called in.
WTAF.
Thank you for bringing daylight to this travesty.
‘My flabber is completely hasted’ hilariously sums up exactly how I feel. Thank for a morning chuckle!
‘My flabber is completely gasted’ made me lol this morning!
Why is it if you steal a loaf of bread you can be immediately arrested and detained until trial, but if you completely ignore a court-mandated redistricting plan, nothing happens? Isn’t it illegal and more egregious?
It’s likely your question was intended to be rhetorical but I’m going to be a “scoff law” (😀) and answer it anyway. It’s not because one act is illegal and the other is not, they both are illegal. It because 99 times out of 100, the person who stole the bread is poor (otherwise they wouldn’t be stealing food) and therefore cannot afford the type of lawyer that can get him out of the charges. But the person who tried to steal an election and implement an insurrection and coup can pay for teams of lawyers, and all sorts of other bribes and pay offs so they never have to face true accountability since in their mind accountability only applies to suckers, losers, and poor people.
A little rhetorical. Eric Garner was killed by police for selling loose cigarettes. Your comment, as well as Marycat below, basically covers what I’m saying.
Yes, similarly George Floyd was killed by Derek Chauvin because he allegedly tried to pay for cigarettes with a counterfeit $20 dollar bill. But at least Chauvin was convicted and went to prison. Pantaleo was only fired for murdering Gardner and he had the audacity to sue NYPD to get his job back which thankfully he did not win.
I think you've missed the mark here. Nobody gets detained for stealing small items unless they have an extensive record and are likely to abscond. Most crimes have a bail in accordance with the law, or at least a pretrial supervision such as house arrest or electronic monitoring, or both. From the beginning, both Trump and Nauta have been ROR'd, which for a case as serious as stealing secret documents seems a little weird to me. Trump is free to travel and even live at his Bedminster golf club. Both defendants are allowed to keep their passports while the case is pending. This is preferential treatment.
As for ignoring redistricting, there is no real penalty for it because courts are reluctant to mess with legislatures over what they see as issues better left up to the voters to decide. This is why racist policies are flourishing.
Not altogether.
Thank you for this thread Joyce. It braids together several concerns about integrity of justices in our judicial system. In my experience as a BA I did not doubt the justices. Now I have no trust left. Each time a justice follows the law in a case in the news I feel nothing. I know Ailleen Canon is protecting Trump and SCOTUS is destroying the fabric of the protections of my womanhood and diversity. No other justices' actions will make up for that.
Yet, we must not give in to let this thirst for power above all things win. “Right over might” must prevail.
Confidence restored is a major undertaking once the faith is broken. And, boy is MAGA, white supremacy and trumpism working to break everything.
It is more important that trump not be elected than that there be a trial before the election for several reasons.
1. The survival of our way of life is lost if he is re-elected
2. If he’s elected he will pardon himself and maneuver away any other problems
3. A full blown violent confrontation is more likely if he’s convicted before an election
4. Our judicial machinery doesn’t move fst enough to make this happen. (See how long it took us to get here)
5. His multiple court proceedings and on-going revelations help us in the election
We have to keep working hrd on the election and ask prosecutors to keep the pressure on, read Arizona, Pennsylvania, Smith
Expat, I share all your numbered concerns. Consider the following:
No. 3, tfg increased the threat of violence over the last week. Pence & others gave up on the judicial system on Sunday, 7 /23. This from a guy hiding from a noose on J6. I learned on the playground & "in the halls of justice" never give into tne threat of violence. As a retired lawyer with over 30 years of litigation & trial work. I am still an active ABA member; I will never give up on our judicial system.
Timely trials before jurors is also essential to amy democratic republic ... "if you can keep it." Did not John Adams teach us this with his successful defense before a jury of two (2) redcoats at the Boston Massacre? That before 1776!
1. Vote while Section 2 of the VRA still exists.
2. On the threat of pardons & get out of jail cards, see my comment on No. 3 above. Ditto.
4. Our judicial systrm is actually made of human beings, jurors, judges, witnesses inder oath, licensed attorneys, Court clerks, armed sheriffs & Court reporters, There folks are not machinery. What ... forgetabout- it? I will not - never.
5. Agree.
Otherwise, I fear we will create more expatriates.
Respectfully, bsm
I read somewhere last night that in a recent poll, 69% of Americans disapprove of him. I'm not a big fan of polls, especially this far ahead of Nov. 2024, but I think it looks like voters are starting to pay attention to what's going on.
Trump lost in 2020. He ran against a guy who beat him by over 7.5 million votes, and by a near-landslide electoral victory. Since then, things have only gone to hell for Trump. He's running again because not doing so would make him a "loser." He is so beholden to the radical right wing that he has to run. The GOP can't even get rid of him; they made a deal with the devil.
The Republican party is what should be dealt with right now, because they are the danger. Trump is mostly a figurehead; he only wants retribution, the 2024 election is his revenge tour.
There is a new book out by Miles Taylor called “Blowback.” Taylor worked in TFG’s administration and recounts the many ways 45 failed the American people.
I'm not worried about Judge Cannon or the documents case at all. It may be the easiest case to prove, but it is also the most trivial, compared to the massive treason surrounding January 6.
And the indictment for those crimes will be filed in the District of Columbia, where the federal courts have demonstrated how comfortable they are with proceeding expeditiously where Trump is concerned.
Once that indictment is filed, its gravity will draw so much national attention and concern that the documents case will be almost forgotten.
I pray you are right
True. In theory, the documents case could bring a prison sentence, but it's not likely with Aileen Cannon presiding over the case. We already know she's a MAGA judge.
On the other hand, Trump unleashed mayhem on Jan. 6th, in hopes of staying in power. People died. He urged them to show up on Jan. 6th, encouraged violence, and armed gangs of thugs such as the Oath Keepers and Patriot Front showed up with piles of firearms stashed in hotel rooms and vehicles. Some of these operatives have received 18 to 25 year sentences for seditious conspiracy. It only makes sense that Trump will also be sentenced to a term in prison.
Agree! tRrump will be J6'd, and long before the election. Thank You, Douglas.
I completely agree; the “insurrection” should be first priority and if TFG found guilty (as we know he is) he will not accede to the presidency. I’d put my eggs in that basket and run with it. Considering your chickens, Joyce, and bless your restraint in posting these highly charged failings of justice in your state and mine as you must be impartial even as you teach and reside in AL. How difficult this must be for you. I love AL and my experience of it but these failings bring tears to my eyes for my Black friends, neighbors, patients in AL. 🥲
I agree.
I hope so.
My fantasy is that 45 gets his wish and trials are all held after the 2024 election which Biden wins.
Hope spring eternal, but I feel like we’re rolling a set of loaded dice that doesn’t favor the roller
For sure, Dave. Can still fantasize, though!
Yeppers. Small victories
The South is still fighting the Civil War.
See Heather Cox Richardson if anyone has not figured this out. "Reconstruction" utterly failed.
Started out ok but not for long.
So true. Owned a home in SC for a dozen years. Confederate Flags frequently flown or displayed with great pride. No one says anything to the contrary.
Democrats struggle mightily to remain sane. It was the first time I understood disenfranchisement -- it is a terrible combination of impotence and waste.
Virginia is no different. And they are also into vulgar signs on their houses, their cars, their clothing. Ignorant and proud of it apparently. Can't get away from it.
And, SC was first to secede pre-Civil War. I certainly toook note of Tump's 2016 R Primary win in EVERY SC county across the State at around 32% for djt to mark the rise of the Autocrat. Now looking for data that will demonstrate that 32% has shrunk or will shrink over time, Unity as a Country, the United States.
In the late 70's my sister lived in Myrtle Beach. She told me that the racism is so open, and rampant, and that there were confederate flags flying even on state buildings.
It’s baked in, it seems. Resentments are so self-destructive.
I'm willing to bet the people don't know the state's history but keep the myths alive. It's why people say the south is still fighting the Civil War. I just can't understand it. I spent my first half of childhood living in Florida and never understood the racism. My father, who died when I was 9, was buried in a "whites only" cemetery, as if being buried next to a Black man was so offensive that the cemetery put this part of the deed to my dad's burial plot in writing.
I actually have a prejudice against white male southern politicians. They can pretend all they want, but history doesn't lie.
There’s no shame about it either, and the Evangelical Christianity espoused in many varieties among such hypocrites seems to allow for it.
People pass political and religious beliefs to their children. That's why racism refuses to die.
Again, George: “In contemplating the causes wch may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern, that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by Geographical discriminations—Northern and Southern—Atlantic and Western;13 whence designing men may endeavour to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence, within particular districts, is to misrepresent the opinions & aims of other Districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heart burnings which spring from these misrepresentations.” Be careful staring into the abyss.
And with a sorrowful decline in standards, too.
I agree with you on the need for the courts to act with speed and equality, but the difference between fair and equal often feels unequal from the cheap seats.
America is being tested once again. We can never take it for granted. Liberty is a fragile lady and we must rally the cause to protect her. Taking her for granted will no longer work until we do the work our forefathers knew we would have to do.
JEN PSAKI interviewed NEAL KATYAL on 7/23 who is Thumbs-up ! onJ6 charging count. 18 US Section 241, Conspiracy Against [Citizen's] Rights [ protected by our Constitution or Federal Law]..
This week?
Yes! I am ignoring Ms. Cannon's trump-ette because it appears to me that the brilliant and accomplished Jack Smith has never expected a timely win there. tRump will go down long before the election via the D.C. J6 insurrection trial and in his attempt to overturn the Georgia election. Then there's New York, and...
Concur on all points, MaryPat.
I'll be interested to learn whether Thomas and Alito curb their extravagant vacationing. Thankfully, there will be reporters out there who will be doing their jobs and looking for the ethical lapses that don't seem to engender any reaction from Roberts or their colleagues. This whole Supreme imbroglio highlights the importance of an independent press - and it further highlights the dangers of having all the press power concentrated in a few (undemocratic) hands like FOX.
My gut reaction to “the integrity of the court” is that we’ve gone over the cliff here. The Roberts Court faces no accountability from any corner but that of the Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo. They are immune to any other reckoning, and as such will/ are making new law as if they were Pharisees. Congress is not able to stop them. States will do what they please and that momentum is growing
The unraveling of settled law will continue as the Gang of Six write increasingly absurd rulings that defy embarrassment. Confidence in the Court??? Why should they care what the public thinks? We have no say in the matter. Leonard Leo bought them. Its to him they obey
The Robber Barons have finally succeeded
I wouldn’t go that far. It’s not over yet and that’s a good thing.
The ignoring of the ruling by the Supreme Court by Alabama legislators is interesting. If they get away with it why would any past or future ruling have any standing.
Good question.
They better not get away with it.
The problem with Alabama is we didn't kill enough of the Confederate traitors when we had the chance to alter the gene pool. Same with the rest of the South.
What we didn't do is hold them accountable. We can't make that mistake again.
The germ of hatred lies in your assertion. The Selektion you offer is not the antidote but the poison undiluted.
I hope you're joking. Really.
I agree with Steve