Thank you, Ms. Vance. Excellent as always. Just one small edit, if I may. In your third (?) paragraph, you say Trump is 'uniquely prone to inciting violence with his CARELESS words.' (Caps are mine.)
Indeed you are spot on. He was mentored by Roy Cohn. After many years, when Roy had AIDS, Donald threw him under the bus. All’s fair: after Joe is reelected and many years from now when we want to say, someone screwed us, we will say: ‘They Donald’ed us.’ it will be in the urban dictionary for everyone to read. It will flip out of our mouths such as. ‘Boy, we were Donald-ed on that one!!’
I do not now, nor will I in the future, utter the name of the orange traitor so colloquially. He disgusts me, and the sooner I never hear the name again will not be soon enough.
Thank you Daniel, that also was my first thought reading that very same.
But deliberate and careless combined describe even more accurately the malicious intent.
Also , that these legal actions imposed as ‘never before being done on any other especially running for office ‘...further highlight with his prompt malign resumed..THE WHY.
It may not be a sign, but the dog once again hauled his Trump stuffie out of his toy box, then proceeded to sling in around, growl at it and gnaw on its head. Then leave it sprawled on the floor of the living room. Every time he does that something bad happens to Trump. Thanksgiving is quiet at my house - just me and the dog. I make all the stuff *I* like for Thanksgiving - turkey, stuffing, sweet potatoes and apples, cranberry relish. No green bean casserole! And, of course, lots of football. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Your dog has given us a sign!! if he wears the toy out, let us know and will send a new one to him. Is he a Dachshund by chance? It sounds like he’s shaking the badger…
I love rough coat collies, have had one in my life for years, my sweetheart blue merle and tan collie Se, crossed the rainbow bridge 2 years ago. We will always miss him.
If my Windy were still around, she probably would have either thrown up on it or peed (I would have had to train her to do that, though, because she never peed inside) on it. (Hope it wasn't offensive for me to say that word.)
Dogs are such wonderful, intelligent creatures. Makes me so glad that God never allowed Trump to have a dog. He would no doubt have taken advantage of the love from his dog, which he would never have returned in a million years.
Regarding the word "careless," all I can say is no matter how Joyce or any others interpreted its use, he simply cares LESS about anything or anyone except power, greed and money.
OK, day before T-Day our son drives out to our premier PNW seafood vendor and buys several fresh Dungeness crabs and three dozen freshly harvested Shiguko oysters for a shellfish bash...served with a lovely vin d'Alsace, quite aromatic.
T-day is turkey on the barbecue, garlic-mashed potatoes, sheet-pan roasted veggies, and baked sourdough bread stuffing, all brought together with a rich brown gravy...wines are Provençal rosé and Gamay red, usually a Beaujolais Village or Morgon. Dessert is classic pecan and pumpkin pies...then we collapse.
I will be celebrating Thanksgiving with the Dems-Abroad in Münster Germany this year. Anybody else a member of Dems-Abroad. We will be at a Beer Hall, and I have a hotel room for the night, okay?
Sorry, as I read my comment it could be construed as an invitation. I was just addressing with the “okay “ those that might be worried about me being alcoholized that I was not going to drive.
Oh man, the Dungeness crabs are coming from Alaska now and the meat is tight to the shell. Absolutely perfect. I was up there a few weeks ago and had some at Anthony's in Everett that just knocked me over. Enjoy!
I just bought a Christmas gift card for Anthony's for my sister and bro-in-law in Seattle, and hoped it was a good choice. (I live in Alabama.) Guess I did okay!
My favorite meal of the year: turkey, stuffing, gravy, peas, cranberries, pecan pie. Mulled wine.
Actually, roast turkey bits, wings, etc. for a stock base, and deglaze with red wine to give a nice brown base, then add a couple of quarts of good chicken bone broth, couple of cups of lightly sautéed mirepoix, simmer for several hours, make a roux, combine w/ strained stock, add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste (important)...Bob's yer uncle.
Exactly, we add the gizzard to the pot as well, fine chop it and the meat off the wings, etc and put it in the gravy. I’ve never used tomato paste though, I’ll give that a try this year, thanks
A small amount of tomato paste is a wonderful additive to brown sauces as it deepens the colour, and contributes a subtle sweetness...sort of a je ne sais quoi flavour component, optional of course.
Laurie, Contrary to your remarks regarding the Colorado 14th Amendment case, I found the two rulings 1) that Trump was complicit in insurrection and 2) that a First Amendment exemption does not apply both highly significant. The technicalities for ruling against removing Trump’s name from the ballot 1) that the Amendment’s text does not explicitly name the Office of the Presidency and 2) that it enlists the verb “support” rather than “preserve, protect, and “defend,” in my view, are sheer nonsense. I would add that leaving it to voters to determine whether we will remain a democratic republic or a fascist state also is ludicrous. Hence, I say the Judge’s ruling has accorded legitimacy to the 14th Amendment argument and that we need to pursue it.
On one hand, it is a good thing to parse the words and understanding of what the constitution states BUT on the other hand it appears as if we are splitting hairs and losing all common sense!
Yes, as non commital as the ruling sounds, those points were made also by Harry Littman or Lawrence Tribe. My poor old brain. It's hard enough to follow the reasoning, and still remember who I was listening to. I always look forward to your comments, Barbara Jo. Clear as usual.
Thank you, Ransom, for your generous words. I would note that because a host of constitutional scholars corroborated one another’s views, it’s understandable to lose sight of from whom you’ve heard what
Not so generous Barb, just the truth. I hope you have time to read Robert Hubble tonight. He just posted and has a lot of good stuff to absorb. He put up the Lutig/Littman link for the MSNBC discussion they had. That is who I as trying to remember. Also the WAPO link for the Biden editorial about the Hamas/Israel and his possition on it all. Very informative and clear. Have a great week ahead. I might have to forget about my waistline till next week. (Chuckle)
Barbara, Won't it appeal to the Colorado Supreme? That is what happened in New Mexico with Couy Griffin. And the appeal won: Couy Griffin can never hold public office in New Mexico (He was the guy who rode his horse down Pennsylvania avenue - I think on January 6). He spent time in the DC jail. Trump threw him under the bus. Sigh. But we know Trump does that. That is what he does. I think the same folks who brought the case in Colorado brought it in New Mexico.
Valerie, My understanding is that the Plaintiffs who filed the suit in Colorado were Colorado residents. My point was, despite a Pyrrhic win for Trump based on nonsense technicalities, the Judge’s ruling virtually set the table with substantive findings that verify Trump should never be allowed to appear on a ballot.
Valerie, I noticed my reply an hour ago didn’t include an answer to your initial question. Yes. The Appeal will be heard by the Colorado Supremes. Given the District Judge’s findings on the substance, while I could be wrong, I expect the State Supremes to rule against the Defense’s ludicrous technical arguments. The last stop, of course, is the U.S. Supreme Court, from which I expect the same, unless they believe they can justify that every one but a former President who took the oath is subject to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Valere, While I like your thinking, I suggest we take nothing for granted and do all we can to gin up turnout. Moreover, considering Senate Democrats up for reelection are facing an unfriendly map, we’ll have to work hard to hold our 49 seats (here I exclude Manchin & Sinema) plus flip at least 1 Republican seat.
BTW, Am. 14:3 gives Congress final remedy to any judicial determination of disability. Since Congress has ultimate authority in the matter, the courts need have no fear of deciding Trump is ineligible, as there is a final political remedy. Makes it more likely for courts to support Trump’s disability for the Presidency.
Steve, Admittedly, I am not clear about the Congressional statute to which you are referring that would supersede a High Court’s ruling rooted in its interpretation of the Constitution.
Ransom, You might recall Hubbell, last week, had posted that Lutig and Tribe would be appearing on Velshi on Saturday at 10:00AM. As I was watching, I had imagined all of you were watching with me. Of course, since then, scholar after scholar have corroborated their views.
I do remember but my world has gotten a bit chaotic and I missed it. My mother-in-law who lives with us fell two weeks ago and hit her head hard. She is in rehab now for at least a month and at 96, she is doing damn well. I'm retired and my wife is still teaching a full load of Yoga classes, so I'm picking up the slack. She put in her twenty some years at university and college teaching art and the Yoga keeps her going too. The evening is my time and I've been trying to hit the sack, but too much interesting stuff keeps popping up. I'll be looking forward to keeping up with you.
Ransom, Considering her fall, and her age, how fortunate your Mother-in-Law is doing so well. Changing the subject, I, too, look forward to following you as matters invariably grow increasingly urgent.
Now ...and AGAIN... we are in this battle brought to us by underhanded deviants -to win . Not winning will sadly prove as Argentina will soon find out , Ukraine already knows , Germany suffered through with so many innocents lost, and many of our soldiers died for, that Democracy is BEST .
Judge Luttig was interviewed right before the mid-terms (last year). He expressed genuine fear of the potential for a fascistic government if Trump wins the 2024 presidency. Trump and his lackeys are planning it with the help of the Heritage Foundation. Trump talks openly about what he will do if elected.
Listen to the New Yorker podcast from this week It’s called “The Political Scene”. I pray that he is in prison.
I’m well aware. I’m a New Yorker subscriber as well. But even more of a high alert to me is the economist this week. They don’t have a horse in the race over in England, but they have declared Trump the single greatest threat to the WORLD in 2025 should he win. Sorry to use all caps, but I did it on purpose. The reason it’s such a stunning article is economist split their magazine so they could highlight the Trump warning. The entire world is watching what is happening in the United States. Still I think we need to be positive because we’re so much better than they are. Frankly, Trump has a gang of eight in the House of Representatives and they’ve done everything in their power to bring our budget to the brink of disaster. The Republican party is imploding and going off the cliff with Trump leading them with their ‘rolling up the sleeves’ threatening fights on the Senate floor. his gang of eight Representatives have less than appropriate members, an accused pedophile, someone who’s been accused of sexual assault (all of this has been published). They are running with the lowest common denominator, and we are taking the highroad and that’s why I sense that we’re going to win. We are better than they are.
We have work ahead of us like we’ve never seen and once we’re finished with our win, we will have to repair the damage done to our country from years of Republican mismanagement, including taking citizenship out of schools, taking civics out of schools, taking social studies out of schools. I’ve spent the last weekend dealing with a fascist imposter right on this very Substack. We all do what we can do and I’m constantly and continually informing with my probably too long postings. But I am also writing letters to current and former members of the house, and Senate, because even though they are former, they still have layers of power and influence. I spent 22 years on a western state board of league of women voters and I’m now involved with national League. I was raised from a baby in Iowa at League meetings - so getting out a non-partisan vote has been in my blood for my entire life. But now I can be openly blue. League is non-partisan but I’m not on a board at the moment💙 My primary mission is to get out the vote and to get it done in Blue. A friend gave me an idea this weekend for stocking stuffers - a Joe Biden coffee cup for which he says in the advertisement, “I like my coffee dark.”
It’s a joke about how the Republicans called him Brandon and the coffee cup turns its face red when it’s filled with coffee. I’ve ordered some but I have to see it and test it. So regardless of red or blue that’s what they get for Christmas stocking stuffers and I hope they like them:)
I’m I’ll also eyeballing rainbow T-shirts with an inclusive message. A T-shirt is worth 1000 words.
Blessings - thank you for your response. And I hope Economist is not too tough to read. But I think it’s an important conversation. And I think it’s even more important that it’s from across the pond in England. They’ve never been hyper critical of Trump. I’ve thought they’ve been a little soft but they’re sure not now, it’s a headlight warning
That was the first case that clearly applied the section III of the 14th. After that all state constitutions were examined for a clause that was clear on sedition. Colorado was one of them.
For what it’s worth New Mexico and 20 other US states have a state defense force, separate from the National Guard and which cannot be Federalized. A state militia. Just like Madison wanted. n Federalist No. 46, Madison wrote how a federal army could be kept in check by the militia, "a standing army ... would be opposed [by] militia." Yep, New Mexico has one.
In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."
In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".
The well-regulated NMSDF supplies its members with standard weapons at times of mobilization. Thus is satisfied the stipulation that “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The NMSDF is not composed of idiot cowboys such as the aforementioned.
Right?? FFS why should the people be subjected to TFG’s non stop chaos!! I’m completely against the idea the “voters should decide” clearly there are requirements to “apply” for this or any job!! He fails !!!
Thanks Joyce. That was a calming read! As calming as it can be considering everything that is going on. I bake cranberry bread every year around Thanksgiving and the Holidays. It tastes and smells so good and it really feels like the spirit is in the house. I'll tell you guys the recipe if you promise not to tell anyone... I use the recipe that it printed on the Ocean Spray bag and on their website. I get the orange zest and juice from my tree. I totally load the things up with love and care. That's it. Scouts honor. Okay... Cub Scouts. Still counts!!!
I’ve also been using that Ocean Spray recipe for years and it always makes the best cranberry bread, hands down. The zest and juice from your very own orange trees definitely take yours to a whole different level! Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you as always for your overview of the upcoming events
Here’s a little story for your Thanksgiving adventure collection. It was the first Thanksgiving I was making for my family, in a funky little apartment in the East Village, with a small funky stove
I went to check the turkey, carelessly pulled out the rack, and out it slid onto the floor. My husband and I grabbed it, stuck it back in the pan and back in the oven and said nothing to anyone. I think we had had one too many margaritas 😁
My sister bred Irish setters--big, unruly ones. While she was on the phone with me one Thanksgiving, they snatched the turkey off the counter. There was a ruckus; she retrieved her turkey, and went on as if nothing happened.
I had a black lab as a kid, and two cats including a big 18lb Maine Coon named Tobey - who was notorious for cruising the kitchen counter when food was present. My mom covered and then left the carcass on the counter when she went to bed one Thanksgiving.
Let ‘s just say that I was required to keep all three animals in my room for a couple of days when my mom discovered the fairly cleaned carcass on the kitchen floor the next day. No turkey soup that year, lol.
Thank you, as always, for your clarity. As for Thanksgiving I’ll share for most of my life I made (or ate my mother’s) oyster dressing stuffed into the turkey. Yum. But my children, none of whom were raised in New Orleans, don’t love it and prefer to eat all the mashed potatoes and creamed peas available. (“Enough carbs Mom!”) Instead I’ve made a dressing with homemade pumpkin bread, fennel and other yummy things. I’m trying apple and chestnut dressing made with challah. Love the sweet and savory. Kind of like life. Best wishes for a warm, lovely and deliciously filling Thanksgiving with your family.
Thanksgiving will be quiet this year. I take care of my 91-year-old mom, and we've generally just had a simple dinner of "the usual" Thanksgiving fare; turkey (or sometimes not, neither one of us are big fans), dressing, cranberry sauce, and some kind of potato. I will usually start hauling out Christmas decorations at some point and get that business going, which usually lasts all throughout the weekend because I am getting too old for all that 💩, and it takes longer now!
Unfortunately, this year we will be without Sarge the dog (see my avatar) because I had to have him put to sleep this past week. He developed pancreatitis, and at 14+ years old, nothing was working to help him, so it was an unavoidable decision. It's a downer for sure, but life must go on.
But, have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Joyce, and to your whole family. I look forward to the chicken videos! And a very happy Thanksgiving to all of the Civil Discourse community!
Sorry about your dog. They're our pets, but also become part of our family. I take care of my 96 yr old Mom, too. This year a couple of friends, one who loves to cook, is cooking and bringing T-day dinner to our house since my mom has a hard time getting out to other people's houses. I'll supply adult beverages, green beans, and bread. Sounds good to me. And, yep, getting Christmas decorations out of the attic, putting outside lights up.
Steve, I am so sorry about the loss of Sarge. Many condolences. I know you will treasure your memories of this 'human in a dog's body' 💜 Big hugs to you and your mom.
Years ago when I lived in Yorba Linda on 7 acre of avocado and other fruit trees it seemed like we always had the Santa Ana winds and would be picking up fruit. That was almost a tradition. But the real one was my father making the pumpkin pies and making me a small amount of potato
stuffing as I didn’t like the regular kind . And can’t forget the “lively discussion “ when you got the family together.
When I lived in San Clemente and Laguna Beach CA. we would set up on the beach with the deep fryer and the BBQ. Nothing like Thanksgiving on the beach with the waves pounding and good friends surrounding.
Well done! Lots of us Aussies have that approach to Christmas ... down the beach or park, with cold chicken, multiple salads, a bucket of shrimp, and a cooler full of beer ... summer!
Joyce, excellent summary of what's coming at us this week.
Wishing you and your loved ones a joyful Thanksgiving! Although I currently reside in the east, my roots trace back to the strong influence of my Arkansas-born and bred female relatives. While I certainly appreciate the traditional turkey and its accompanying delights, such as the delectable homemade cranberries prepared by my wife, my personal preference lies in savoring a delicious sweet potato pie rather than the customary pumpkin pie. The cherished art of crafting these mouthwatering sweet potato pies was passed down through generations of remarkable women in my family. First, my two eldest great-aunts acquired the masterful techniques from their mothers, who then generously imparted their knowledge to my mother, despite her being several years younger.
Be that as it may about Trump and Gag orders, I believe that if we as members of the "general public" were to have taken such liberties with name calling and insulting behavior directed toward the Bench, we would have found ourselves in an entirely different situation from Trump.
It's only 9:30 out here on the Leftist Coast and Heather posted early too. I just might get a full night's sleep tonight. Thank you for keeping us in the loop, Joyce and enjoy the Quad alignment.
We used to do an Italian-American supper starting with homemade ravioli and pasta sauce with antipasti. But in recent years we’ve cut back on the carbs and stuck with the traditional American feast. We always make refrigerator cloverleaf rolls which started with my mom making them for holidays years ago. That’s one carb we can’t seem to quit. Mom is from Tulsa and used to cook big family dinners. Gratefully she is still with us at 96, but I have taken over the roll-making task. My brother makes rolls for his family on the east coast. Joyce, wishing you and yours a peaceful Thanksgiving holiday. I am ever grateful for your legal explanations. Also love Sisters-in-Law podcast.
While getting my nails done, the person getting their nails done next to me stated to their nail tech, "Thanksgiving is a Jewish holiday." Happily, I did not burst into flames and torch the establishment....
My favorite Thanksgiving food is oyster casserole. I buy the same ingredients each year from the same grocery. It has been $34.26 for the past 6 years. This year it was $64.90. Like wow.
I wish everyone here a lovely not Jewish holiday.
I very much look forward to chicken videos and pics of pies!!
But it does seem totally absurd that a white Christian nationalist would believe such a thing. I’ve never heard that. Then again, I’m a died in the wool east coaster - haven’t had much exposure to white Christian nationalists, thankfully
Thank you, Ms. Vance. Excellent as always. Just one small edit, if I may. In your third (?) paragraph, you say Trump is 'uniquely prone to inciting violence with his CARELESS words.' (Caps are mine.)
His words are not careless. They are deliberate.
Calculated.
Indeed you are spot on. He was mentored by Roy Cohn. After many years, when Roy had AIDS, Donald threw him under the bus. All’s fair: after Joe is reelected and many years from now when we want to say, someone screwed us, we will say: ‘They Donald’ed us.’ it will be in the urban dictionary for everyone to read. It will flip out of our mouths such as. ‘Boy, we were Donald-ed on that one!!’
I do not now, nor will I in the future, utter the name of the orange traitor so colloquially. He disgusts me, and the sooner I never hear the name again will not be soon enough.
Or that face and hands.
You and me both!
Oh Valere! 👏
You heard it here first,folks! How astute!
We were DONALD’ED🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Let’s hope we’re doing this in 2025 in a version that says: ‘Donald Donald-ed himself’
👍✔️…I got a great laugh, thanks
or Joyce could be using the word “careless” as “care less” which describes tfg’s usual attitude.
My thoughts too.
I highlighted the same phrase for the same reason. There is nothing careless at all about Trump’s words. Grrrr.
Thank you Daniel, that also was my first thought reading that very same.
But deliberate and careless combined describe even more accurately the malicious intent.
Also , that these legal actions imposed as ‘never before being done on any other especially running for office ‘...further highlight with his prompt malign resumed..THE WHY.
Such an insidious mass of mess.
💙💙VOTE ALL THE COMPLICIT OUT💙💙
He was trained by Roy Cohn
I just signed on to say that exact thing.
I was coming here to make the same comment.
It may not be a sign, but the dog once again hauled his Trump stuffie out of his toy box, then proceeded to sling in around, growl at it and gnaw on its head. Then leave it sprawled on the floor of the living room. Every time he does that something bad happens to Trump. Thanksgiving is quiet at my house - just me and the dog. I make all the stuff *I* like for Thanksgiving - turkey, stuffing, sweet potatoes and apples, cranberry relish. No green bean casserole! And, of course, lots of football. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Let us know when your dog rips the head off.
LOL
Your dog has given us a sign!! if he wears the toy out, let us know and will send a new one to him. Is he a Dachshund by chance? It sounds like he’s shaking the badger…
He's a rough coat collie - a Lassie dog. He's had it for awhile, and hasn't started de-stuffing it yet
🩵🐾
I love rough coat collies, have had one in my life for years, my sweetheart blue merle and tan collie Se, crossed the rainbow bridge 2 years ago. We will always miss him.
I have a rough coat Lassie too. She excels at surgically removing feet from all her toys.
I love your dog. ♥️
Do you live near No. Cal? Come on over! Lots of good food here.
Where are you in NorCal? I’m in Santa Rosa. Well not for Thanksgiving as I’m in Colorado. But I live there! Happy thanksgiving.
I'm in Sebastopol! Happy Thanksgiving to everyone 🦃
More north, near Eureka. Happy Thanksgiving!
Woof! Please give your dog an extra treat! Have a safe holiday.
Good dog, Julie!
Dogs are the best, aren't they?! Even when it comes to that certain person...! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Julie.
Thank you! Same to you.
If my Windy were still around, she probably would have either thrown up on it or peed (I would have had to train her to do that, though, because she never peed inside) on it. (Hope it wasn't offensive for me to say that word.)
Dogs are such wonderful, intelligent creatures. Makes me so glad that God never allowed Trump to have a dog. He would no doubt have taken advantage of the love from his dog, which he would never have returned in a million years.
Regarding the word "careless," all I can say is no matter how Joyce or any others interpreted its use, he simply cares LESS about anything or anyone except power, greed and money.
Haven't even met him, but I love your collie!
In a zen moment, DOG is the mirror image of GOD.
OK, day before T-Day our son drives out to our premier PNW seafood vendor and buys several fresh Dungeness crabs and three dozen freshly harvested Shiguko oysters for a shellfish bash...served with a lovely vin d'Alsace, quite aromatic.
T-day is turkey on the barbecue, garlic-mashed potatoes, sheet-pan roasted veggies, and baked sourdough bread stuffing, all brought together with a rich brown gravy...wines are Provençal rosé and Gamay red, usually a Beaujolais Village or Morgon. Dessert is classic pecan and pumpkin pies...then we collapse.
I will be celebrating Thanksgiving with the Dems-Abroad in Münster Germany this year. Anybody else a member of Dems-Abroad. We will be at a Beer Hall, and I have a hotel room for the night, okay?
Sorry, as I read my comment it could be construed as an invitation. I was just addressing with the “okay “ those that might be worried about me being alcoholized that I was not going to drive.
10 of us travelled to Italy. Celebrating at a Tuscan Villa with a “Thanksgiving” (not turkey) dinner prepared by a chef in house. 🙏
nice...where in the Toscana?
Oh man, the Dungeness crabs are coming from Alaska now and the meat is tight to the shell. Absolutely perfect. I was up there a few weeks ago and had some at Anthony's in Everett that just knocked me over. Enjoy!
I just bought a Christmas gift card for Anthony's for my sister and bro-in-law in Seattle, and hoped it was a good choice. (I live in Alabama.) Guess I did okay!
My favorite meal of the year: turkey, stuffing, gravy, peas, cranberries, pecan pie. Mulled wine.
Do you “dry brown” your flour for it’s nutty flavor in your rich brown gravy? (Something my grandmother taught us)
Actually, roast turkey bits, wings, etc. for a stock base, and deglaze with red wine to give a nice brown base, then add a couple of quarts of good chicken bone broth, couple of cups of lightly sautéed mirepoix, simmer for several hours, make a roux, combine w/ strained stock, add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste (important)...Bob's yer uncle.
Exactly, we add the gizzard to the pot as well, fine chop it and the meat off the wings, etc and put it in the gravy. I’ve never used tomato paste though, I’ll give that a try this year, thanks
Absolutely...2-3lbs wings and everything not nailed down in the turk, incl. the neck!
Why tomato paste? You kinda lost me there.
A small amount of tomato paste is a wonderful additive to brown sauces as it deepens the colour, and contributes a subtle sweetness...sort of a je ne sais quoi flavour component, optional of course.
Sounds delicious!
I have one word for you, Lance...YUM!
Where do you live Lance? Ha ha
No weedling in, Valere!
What a rats nest of litigation! How does he sleep at night. Well, I probably know the answer to that…
Gag him. Keep him gagged!
This 14th Amendment business never seemed solid. Seems rather desperate.
All of the other suits seem to have merit. I keep hoping beyond hope that justice is served!
Laurie, Contrary to your remarks regarding the Colorado 14th Amendment case, I found the two rulings 1) that Trump was complicit in insurrection and 2) that a First Amendment exemption does not apply both highly significant. The technicalities for ruling against removing Trump’s name from the ballot 1) that the Amendment’s text does not explicitly name the Office of the Presidency and 2) that it enlists the verb “support” rather than “preserve, protect, and “defend,” in my view, are sheer nonsense. I would add that leaving it to voters to determine whether we will remain a democratic republic or a fascist state also is ludicrous. Hence, I say the Judge’s ruling has accorded legitimacy to the 14th Amendment argument and that we need to pursue it.
I agree. It's time the Constitution was adhered to in order to protect this nation, the very reason section 3 was written.
On one hand, it is a good thing to parse the words and understanding of what the constitution states BUT on the other hand it appears as if we are splitting hairs and losing all common sense!
Yes, as non commital as the ruling sounds, those points were made also by Harry Littman or Lawrence Tribe. My poor old brain. It's hard enough to follow the reasoning, and still remember who I was listening to. I always look forward to your comments, Barbara Jo. Clear as usual.
Thank you, Ransom, for your generous words. I would note that because a host of constitutional scholars corroborated one another’s views, it’s understandable to lose sight of from whom you’ve heard what
Not so generous Barb, just the truth. I hope you have time to read Robert Hubble tonight. He just posted and has a lot of good stuff to absorb. He put up the Lutig/Littman link for the MSNBC discussion they had. That is who I as trying to remember. Also the WAPO link for the Biden editorial about the Hamas/Israel and his possition on it all. Very informative and clear. Have a great week ahead. I might have to forget about my waistline till next week. (Chuckle)
Ransom, Because it’s 2:30 AM ET (my time), Hubbell’s Today’s Edition will have to wait until morning. Wishing you and yours a happy Thanksgiving. B
Understood. You have a very pleasant one too. It's 11:30 here in So. Cal. and I'm hittin' the sack. RR
That was a great segment by Ali Velshi, wasn’t it? I really enjoy listening to these two incredible scholarly, constitutional experts.
Barbara, Won't it appeal to the Colorado Supreme? That is what happened in New Mexico with Couy Griffin. And the appeal won: Couy Griffin can never hold public office in New Mexico (He was the guy who rode his horse down Pennsylvania avenue - I think on January 6). He spent time in the DC jail. Trump threw him under the bus. Sigh. But we know Trump does that. That is what he does. I think the same folks who brought the case in Colorado brought it in New Mexico.
Valerie, My understanding is that the Plaintiffs who filed the suit in Colorado were Colorado residents. My point was, despite a Pyrrhic win for Trump based on nonsense technicalities, the Judge’s ruling virtually set the table with substantive findings that verify Trump should never be allowed to appear on a ballot.
Thank you ever so much. I have a very difficult time understanding verdicts. I’m afraid I’m getting an F minus in my first school 101 class.
And now I shall google pyrrhic.
Oh yes, thank you again.
From Pyrrhus?
Precisely! From Pyrrhus who sustained severe losses in defeating the Romans.
Valerie, I noticed my reply an hour ago didn’t include an answer to your initial question. Yes. The Appeal will be heard by the Colorado Supremes. Given the District Judge’s findings on the substance, while I could be wrong, I expect the State Supremes to rule against the Defense’s ludicrous technical arguments. The last stop, of course, is the U.S. Supreme Court, from which I expect the same, unless they believe they can justify that every one but a former President who took the oath is subject to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
I’m thinking Joe Biden will be reelected, we will win the house and Senate and Joe will expand the Supreme Court. In an ideal world.
Valere, While I like your thinking, I suggest we take nothing for granted and do all we can to gin up turnout. Moreover, considering Senate Democrats up for reelection are facing an unfriendly map, we’ll have to work hard to hold our 49 seats (here I exclude Manchin & Sinema) plus flip at least 1 Republican seat.
Indeed. I'm aware and have been ginning. I'm fully aware of the battle ahead.
Barbara, I think the maps have to do with the House? Each state gets 2 senators and voter locations don't matter?
BTW, Am. 14:3 gives Congress final remedy to any judicial determination of disability. Since Congress has ultimate authority in the matter, the courts need have no fear of deciding Trump is ineligible, as there is a final political remedy. Makes it more likely for courts to support Trump’s disability for the Presidency.
Steve, Admittedly, I am not clear about the Congressional statute to which you are referring that would supersede a High Court’s ruling rooted in its interpretation of the Constitution.
The discussion was Judge Lutig and Lawrence Tribe on MSNBC. Robert Hubble just posted and gives the links and serious quotes,
Ransom, You might recall Hubbell, last week, had posted that Lutig and Tribe would be appearing on Velshi on Saturday at 10:00AM. As I was watching, I had imagined all of you were watching with me. Of course, since then, scholar after scholar have corroborated their views.
I do remember but my world has gotten a bit chaotic and I missed it. My mother-in-law who lives with us fell two weeks ago and hit her head hard. She is in rehab now for at least a month and at 96, she is doing damn well. I'm retired and my wife is still teaching a full load of Yoga classes, so I'm picking up the slack. She put in her twenty some years at university and college teaching art and the Yoga keeps her going too. The evening is my time and I've been trying to hit the sack, but too much interesting stuff keeps popping up. I'll be looking forward to keeping up with you.
Ransom, Considering her fall, and her age, how fortunate your Mother-in-Law is doing so well. Changing the subject, I, too, look forward to following you as matters invariably grow increasingly urgent.
Blessings requested . Yoga🙌 Pitching in 🙌
Now ...and AGAIN... we are in this battle brought to us by underhanded deviants -to win . Not winning will sadly prove as Argentina will soon find out , Ukraine already knows , Germany suffered through with so many innocents lost, and many of our soldiers died for, that Democracy is BEST .
Do all you can.
Oh, they talked about NM? These guys want to get rid of Trump. And they can say it in public while his buddies on the Supreme Court can’t.
Judge Luttig was interviewed right before the mid-terms (last year). He expressed genuine fear of the potential for a fascistic government if Trump wins the 2024 presidency. Trump and his lackeys are planning it with the help of the Heritage Foundation. Trump talks openly about what he will do if elected.
Listen to the New Yorker podcast from this week It’s called “The Political Scene”. I pray that he is in prison.
I’m well aware. I’m a New Yorker subscriber as well. But even more of a high alert to me is the economist this week. They don’t have a horse in the race over in England, but they have declared Trump the single greatest threat to the WORLD in 2025 should he win. Sorry to use all caps, but I did it on purpose. The reason it’s such a stunning article is economist split their magazine so they could highlight the Trump warning. The entire world is watching what is happening in the United States. Still I think we need to be positive because we’re so much better than they are. Frankly, Trump has a gang of eight in the House of Representatives and they’ve done everything in their power to bring our budget to the brink of disaster. The Republican party is imploding and going off the cliff with Trump leading them with their ‘rolling up the sleeves’ threatening fights on the Senate floor. his gang of eight Representatives have less than appropriate members, an accused pedophile, someone who’s been accused of sexual assault (all of this has been published). They are running with the lowest common denominator, and we are taking the highroad and that’s why I sense that we’re going to win. We are better than they are.
We have work ahead of us like we’ve never seen and once we’re finished with our win, we will have to repair the damage done to our country from years of Republican mismanagement, including taking citizenship out of schools, taking civics out of schools, taking social studies out of schools. I’ve spent the last weekend dealing with a fascist imposter right on this very Substack. We all do what we can do and I’m constantly and continually informing with my probably too long postings. But I am also writing letters to current and former members of the house, and Senate, because even though they are former, they still have layers of power and influence. I spent 22 years on a western state board of league of women voters and I’m now involved with national League. I was raised from a baby in Iowa at League meetings - so getting out a non-partisan vote has been in my blood for my entire life. But now I can be openly blue. League is non-partisan but I’m not on a board at the moment💙 My primary mission is to get out the vote and to get it done in Blue. A friend gave me an idea this weekend for stocking stuffers - a Joe Biden coffee cup for which he says in the advertisement, “I like my coffee dark.”
It’s a joke about how the Republicans called him Brandon and the coffee cup turns its face red when it’s filled with coffee. I’ve ordered some but I have to see it and test it. So regardless of red or blue that’s what they get for Christmas stocking stuffers and I hope they like them:)
I’m I’ll also eyeballing rainbow T-shirts with an inclusive message. A T-shirt is worth 1000 words.
Blessings - thank you for your response. And I hope Economist is not too tough to read. But I think it’s an important conversation. And I think it’s even more important that it’s from across the pond in England. They’ve never been hyper critical of Trump. I’ve thought they’ve been a little soft but they’re sure not now, it’s a headlight warning
Is it still only 2023?
Here's Judge Luttig's Xitter discussion of the Colorado case, neatly bundled thanks to the threadreader app: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1725695335081594903.html#google_vignette
Thank you!
May your mother-in-law prevail. And may you get some quality sleep.
That was the first case that clearly applied the section III of the 14th. After that all state constitutions were examined for a clause that was clear on sedition. Colorado was one of them.
Thank you. I did not know the reasoning behind bringing the case in New Mexico.
For what it’s worth New Mexico and 20 other US states have a state defense force, separate from the National Guard and which cannot be Federalized. A state militia. Just like Madison wanted. n Federalist No. 46, Madison wrote how a federal army could be kept in check by the militia, "a standing army ... would be opposed [by] militia." Yep, New Mexico has one.
In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."
In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".
The well-regulated NMSDF supplies its members with standard weapons at times of mobilization. Thus is satisfied the stipulation that “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The NMSDF is not composed of idiot cowboys such as the aforementioned.
Thank you Steve. Have they ever used the NMSDF or do you know?
Are they funded privately? I think this is the first time that I’ve ever heard of one in operation.
A gracious Thanksgiving to you and family Joyce.
Thus, a precedent.
How the 14th AMENDMENT isn’t perfectly clear just amazes me.
Right?? FFS why should the people be subjected to TFG’s non stop chaos!! I’m completely against the idea the “voters should decide” clearly there are requirements to “apply” for this or any job!! He fails !!!
Amen
Thanks Joyce. That was a calming read! As calming as it can be considering everything that is going on. I bake cranberry bread every year around Thanksgiving and the Holidays. It tastes and smells so good and it really feels like the spirit is in the house. I'll tell you guys the recipe if you promise not to tell anyone... I use the recipe that it printed on the Ocean Spray bag and on their website. I get the orange zest and juice from my tree. I totally load the things up with love and care. That's it. Scouts honor. Okay... Cub Scouts. Still counts!!!
I’ve also been using that Ocean Spray recipe for years and it always makes the best cranberry bread, hands down. The zest and juice from your very own orange trees definitely take yours to a whole different level! Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you as always for your overview of the upcoming events
Here’s a little story for your Thanksgiving adventure collection. It was the first Thanksgiving I was making for my family, in a funky little apartment in the East Village, with a small funky stove
I went to check the turkey, carelessly pulled out the rack, and out it slid onto the floor. My husband and I grabbed it, stuck it back in the pan and back in the oven and said nothing to anyone. I think we had had one too many margaritas 😁
Sounds like no one violated the 5-second rule.
My sister bred Irish setters--big, unruly ones. While she was on the phone with me one Thanksgiving, they snatched the turkey off the counter. There was a ruckus; she retrieved her turkey, and went on as if nothing happened.
I had a black lab as a kid, and two cats including a big 18lb Maine Coon named Tobey - who was notorious for cruising the kitchen counter when food was present. My mom covered and then left the carcass on the counter when she went to bed one Thanksgiving.
Let ‘s just say that I was required to keep all three animals in my room for a couple of days when my mom discovered the fairly cleaned carcass on the kitchen floor the next day. No turkey soup that year, lol.
Here’s to too many margaritas!
🤣🤣
Julia Child would have been proud of you.
Thank you, as always, for your clarity. As for Thanksgiving I’ll share for most of my life I made (or ate my mother’s) oyster dressing stuffed into the turkey. Yum. But my children, none of whom were raised in New Orleans, don’t love it and prefer to eat all the mashed potatoes and creamed peas available. (“Enough carbs Mom!”) Instead I’ve made a dressing with homemade pumpkin bread, fennel and other yummy things. I’m trying apple and chestnut dressing made with challah. Love the sweet and savory. Kind of like life. Best wishes for a warm, lovely and deliciously filling Thanksgiving with your family.
I wasn’t raised in New Orleans but lived in the French Quarter a long time and always loved the amazing oyster dressing.
This time of year a good, gooey apple pie and some cinnamon ice cream is my idea of nirvana!
Knock it off! Some of us old crustys are getting to be pre-diabetic! Torture!
Exactly once i had some haagen dasz cinnamon dulce de leche ice cream.
Absolutely the best thing i ever tasted. Never seen any since.
Nocciola Fig
Thanksgiving will be quiet this year. I take care of my 91-year-old mom, and we've generally just had a simple dinner of "the usual" Thanksgiving fare; turkey (or sometimes not, neither one of us are big fans), dressing, cranberry sauce, and some kind of potato. I will usually start hauling out Christmas decorations at some point and get that business going, which usually lasts all throughout the weekend because I am getting too old for all that 💩, and it takes longer now!
Unfortunately, this year we will be without Sarge the dog (see my avatar) because I had to have him put to sleep this past week. He developed pancreatitis, and at 14+ years old, nothing was working to help him, so it was an unavoidable decision. It's a downer for sure, but life must go on.
But, have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Joyce, and to your whole family. I look forward to the chicken videos! And a very happy Thanksgiving to all of the Civil Discourse community!
Sorry about your dog. They're our pets, but also become part of our family. I take care of my 96 yr old Mom, too. This year a couple of friends, one who loves to cook, is cooking and bringing T-day dinner to our house since my mom has a hard time getting out to other people's houses. I'll supply adult beverages, green beans, and bread. Sounds good to me. And, yep, getting Christmas decorations out of the attic, putting outside lights up.
Steve, I am so sorry about the loss of Sarge. Many condolences. I know you will treasure your memories of this 'human in a dog's body' 💜 Big hugs to you and your mom.
Years ago when I lived in Yorba Linda on 7 acre of avocado and other fruit trees it seemed like we always had the Santa Ana winds and would be picking up fruit. That was almost a tradition. But the real one was my father making the pumpkin pies and making me a small amount of potato
stuffing as I didn’t like the regular kind . And can’t forget the “lively discussion “ when you got the family together.
Everyone have a wonderful thanksgiving!
When I lived in San Clemente and Laguna Beach CA. we would set up on the beach with the deep fryer and the BBQ. Nothing like Thanksgiving on the beach with the waves pounding and good friends surrounding.
Well done! Lots of us Aussies have that approach to Christmas ... down the beach or park, with cold chicken, multiple salads, a bucket of shrimp, and a cooler full of beer ... summer!
You too, Christine.
Joyce, excellent summary of what's coming at us this week.
Wishing you and your loved ones a joyful Thanksgiving! Although I currently reside in the east, my roots trace back to the strong influence of my Arkansas-born and bred female relatives. While I certainly appreciate the traditional turkey and its accompanying delights, such as the delectable homemade cranberries prepared by my wife, my personal preference lies in savoring a delicious sweet potato pie rather than the customary pumpkin pie. The cherished art of crafting these mouthwatering sweet potato pies was passed down through generations of remarkable women in my family. First, my two eldest great-aunts acquired the masterful techniques from their mothers, who then generously imparted their knowledge to my mother, despite her being several years younger.
Be that as it may about Trump and Gag orders, I believe that if we as members of the "general public" were to have taken such liberties with name calling and insulting behavior directed toward the Bench, we would have found ourselves in an entirely different situation from Trump.
It's only 9:30 out here on the Leftist Coast and Heather posted early too. I just might get a full night's sleep tonight. Thank you for keeping us in the loop, Joyce and enjoy the Quad alignment.
As always, I'll be pullin' for the pullets.
We used to do an Italian-American supper starting with homemade ravioli and pasta sauce with antipasti. But in recent years we’ve cut back on the carbs and stuck with the traditional American feast. We always make refrigerator cloverleaf rolls which started with my mom making them for holidays years ago. That’s one carb we can’t seem to quit. Mom is from Tulsa and used to cook big family dinners. Gratefully she is still with us at 96, but I have taken over the roll-making task. My brother makes rolls for his family on the east coast. Joyce, wishing you and yours a peaceful Thanksgiving holiday. I am ever grateful for your legal explanations. Also love Sisters-in-Law podcast.
While getting my nails done, the person getting their nails done next to me stated to their nail tech, "Thanksgiving is a Jewish holiday." Happily, I did not burst into flames and torch the establishment....
My favorite Thanksgiving food is oyster casserole. I buy the same ingredients each year from the same grocery. It has been $34.26 for the past 6 years. This year it was $64.90. Like wow.
I wish everyone here a lovely not Jewish holiday.
I very much look forward to chicken videos and pics of pies!!
That is ridiculous and hysterical, at the same time, Sabrina!
Yes I thought so too!
🤣
But, but.....oysters aren’t kosher! ☹️
Did you think she was being serious, and why would it cause you to burst into flames?
Yes she was. She was "schooling" her nail tech. Well this is an old White Christian Nationalist trope I have heard since 1967.
Those Jewish pilgrims started a lot of trouble
Bahaa!
Lol. I thought perhaps it was a Jewish woman, in which case it would fit perfectly with Jewish humor.
Ah yes!
I have never heard that one. Well, at least she didn't try to pass off Christmas as a Jewish holiday!
In one sense Christmas might be the ultimate Jewish holiday.
But it does seem totally absurd that a white Christian nationalist would believe such a thing. I’ve never heard that. Then again, I’m a died in the wool east coaster - haven’t had much exposure to white Christian nationalists, thankfully
Happy Thanksgiving! My favorite holiday... Enjoy family one and all!!
My favorite as well. All you have to do is eat. 😁