The hearing was informative. While I generally follow news closely my husband does not. The video disturbed him and kept asking me if I should watch it. My explanation was I had watched a lot of videos in regards to the insurrection I had seen a lot of bad things. Including watching real time that day in tears. He is clear now that we are on the right side of history! He is a republican, not a Trump supporter, but was holding out hope for his party with the rest of the Trump crew. He no longer believes that they were “managing” him.....As always thanks for breaking it down!
I continue to think people can be persuaded to understand the threat to our country if they're exposed to the truth. Hope your husband has a few friends he can share his updated views with!
Hearing far exceeded my expectations. I was hoping we would be given new information and the committee delivered. Rep Thompson and Rep Cheney did a wonderful job. There was no turning away.
The key point for me is what will AG Garland do? If the AG and DOJ fail to act, I am certain our democracy will be in grave danger.
As you noted DOJ must bring any case with enough compelling evidence to convince a jury of Trump’s culpability beyond reasonable doubt. I hope this will happen for the sake of our children’s future.
I found the evidence presented to be highly credible. Still more to come. But if you don't think this was an attempt to over throw the government you are hiding from the truth or you were in on it. #lockthemup
Here is my un of the mill citizen take away. The opening statements seemed to eliminate my cynical thoughts or fears this would be primarily political theater- legitmate politicing, perhaps but alas so it was clear that would not be the case last night. Phew! Second, two things intreagued me- the evidence of both the planning and timing of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers movement before the Trump speech tied together with evidence of why they were there- Trump “asked of us for our vote and to be there”. Third, the evidence that we suspected was there and now saw & will see before us, Trump had and still has a deliberate multiprong approach to undermine validity of the election and its results. And it is ongoing to this day. Third, but not least, the realty based description of what it was like on the ground. The images we have seen in the media always seemd chaotic and prior interviews always described violence, but hearing Officer Edwards calm reflective testimony with the video footage juxtaposed brought a sobering reality to what it was like to be there. The testimony about blood everywhere put an exclamation point on the hearing ‘this is real folks wake up’. And finally I am very interested in the hearings that will focus on the participants. David Brooks provocative op ed raised one point I agreed with- we need to look forward. To do that we as Americans need to understand from the participants in their own words Why? What led them to act and either claim or believe they were acting as patriots? This isnt legitmaizing their beliefs but rather like any criminal mind examination, will help inform us on how to prevent something like this from happeneing and or see it coming and stopping it to limit the damage done. I believe we are still living the insurection and this seemed to be a credible first step to acknowledging and addressin it.
Agreed, but a preliminary hearing is typically open to the public and involves lawyers on both sides as well as a judge. If this was, as you stated, more or less a grand jury proceeding, it violated the most sacred key principle. A grand jury is held in private. Every grand juror must take an oath with a vow of secrecy. Jurors aren't allowed to research cases ahead of time, as their opinions must be unbiased. The vow of secrecy makes witnesses feel safer and works to persuade them to testify. This secrecy is also designed to protect the reputation of an unindicted individual.
Thus, it came across to me as unfair, more political theater, indeed produced by a veteran TV producer! The main points as cited here in the comments are mostly designed for maximum emotional impact, with little relevance to the key objective, that of deciding what degree of culpability can be directly attributed to Trump, which everyone knows is the ultimate objective, openly acknowledged by both sides. As a student of history & propaganda, It's use of emotional videos which evoke universal revulsion, is exactly how the Nazis used Joseph Goebbels to produce propaganda to turn the German people against jews, which was chilling to realize, and Americans are wiser & more media savvy than ever, & I think they know when they are being psychologically manipulated, which I don't agree with, & would criticize even a Libertarian or family member if they used propaganda to inspire hatred towards anyone, for any reason. I don't like Trump, but two wrongs don't make a right. I am just expressing my own impressions & opinion, we can agree to disagree, I am a neutral observer stating what I see as fairly obvious. To see evil & remain silent IS evil. ✌🏻
I honestly do not see how last evenings broadcast was propaganda. Propaganda by definition distorts truth, misusing information to create a desired narrative. But is it propaganda to lay facts bare, even if those fact elicit strong emotion in nearly all observers? I dont think so. There are times when we need to show facts in the context of the event in order to understand what happened and come to an honest conclusion.
What facts were distorted last night?. What was untrue? As far as a grand jury analogy i see the American people as the jurors. It was not meant to be a direct comparison but rather as something with similar aim.
I am appalled at the behavior of those who brought violence to our beloved capitol, not justifiable, not trying. I didn't intend to offend anyone, I'm a gay guy & a Libertarian. I think the public needed to see those, I'm just not sure if all the violence can be blamed on one person, even if it's the guy we all 'love to hate', so to speak. SCOTUS justice Brett Kavanaugh was nearly assassinated a few nights ago, & President Biden gave his assent to the protestors shouting at home, which is illegal. I'm playing devil's advocate, but what if Kavanaugh had been killed? Would we blame Joe Biden, for encouraging peaceful protest, not at a public building, but at a private residence? Pres. Biden never called off the protestors, still hasn't, as far as I know. Would we have a similar outrage & hire a TV producer to present the gory photos on Prime Time? If that's not political theater, I can't imagine a better example. It just seemed staged for maximum emotion, & I'm sure there would be documentary films made to shows that graphic footage, just wish it wasn't as politicized as it seemed. I joined this forum because I think we can be more united & need civil discourse, and I hope these hearings don't divide American's further. To what end? I'm not convinced Trump could win, but I'll be glad when it's over, I'm usually very positive, joined not knowing the hearing would coincide or that it would bother me, just will hold off on discussion until it's over. :-)
One thought and a question. The thought: I'll be curious to see what kind of TV ratings the hearing received. And the question: In the event that the DOJ does indeed pursue a criminal case against Trump, perhaps for seditious conspiracy, what is the range of punishment in terms of prison time? Are there guidelines for this kind of crime?
Thanks for a great recap of highlights. I found the hearing both riveting and blood pressure raising.
Thanks for this recap, Joyce. I thought the opening from both the Chairman and Rep. Cheney went a bit long and was a little too lawyerly. Worried it would lose people, since our society seems to have the attention span of a gnat. I think it struck the right tone in terms of the seriousness of the occasion as it shouldn’t have to be sensationalized, but wish they’d mixed in some of the video a bit sooner. That said, once they did get into the video and testimony, it was very compelling. I was relieved that they used the phrase domestic terrorism repeatedly and that they connected to Donald Trump from the outset. Clearly, they are not going to be afraid to go there and to connect the dots. I don’t believe it will reach members of the cult, but am hopeful it will spur the apathetic crowd to wake up, realize how serious the threat is, and vote.
What I found so disturbing about all of this, is that when everyone acknowledged that the election in fact, had not been stolen, and trump refused to step down, that no one did anything to get him out of power. Everyone was worried about what he would do, and "talked" about invoking the 25th Amendment, but did nothing. Even after the second impeachment, all those republicans just looked the other way. Not to mention the number of republicans who voted against certifying the electoral votes. Are these the republicans Liz was talking to when she made the statement about how they will be remembered? I'm just so angry about all the crime and abuse of power that took place for four long years. All those who were involved, like Pruitt, Zenky, Perry, Mnuchin, Kushner, Ivanka, Pompeo, those who were using the federal government to abuse power and get rich. I'm rambling, but it should have been stopped, way before January 6, 2021.
agree. i watched the hearing but i still don’t have a lot of confidence that people at highest levels will be held accountable - and it may be hard to prove per guidelines Joyce outlined. i hope the Committee gets into details of how people were actively trying to take over the the gov’t and that it is still ongoing.
You are absolutely spot on! Trump should have been stopped long before Jan 6. Infuriates me no end that so many sat back then wrote a book telling about Trump's wrongdoings after he was voted out.
Starting the hearings with Barr”s testimony was a good move in my opinion. Also addressing the attempts to include Republicans in the process. The hearing also laid out Mc Carthy”s spinelessness pretty well. I did find it difficult to recognize new information because we’ve been receiving “trickle truth” for a year and a half and I can’t keep track of details I’ve heard before. If the Fox “News” response is any indication Maga is worried about these hearings.
I was stunned by the violence recorded on Nick Quested videotape and horrified at the small size of the police force that initially tried to hold back the growing, dangerous mob. Carolyn Edwards and Quested's testimonies were riveting and clearly showed the level of violence, i.e. not a peaceful protest getting out of hand!, and planning. Quested comment that Trump sent the bulk of the mob to the Capitol to help Proud Boys and Promise Keepers storm the Capitol, told the real story. He made it clear that he was there because he received a subpoena. I sense that he still has much more to say about what he saw and heard.
Every congressional representative should watch this. It should be mandatory. Every American should be watching this! The fact that Fox News is not airing the hearing makes me angry, because where I live most of the people will not see this and yet talk about it without knowing the truth.
One more thought: while I was watching video snippets of various individual testimonies it occurred to me one criticism would that they were taken out of context to be misleading. But, the Quested and Edward's testimonies nailed it for me. Quested's moment by moment description of his video, and Carolyn Edward’s account and video of her first injury and pepper spray/tear gas moved me to tears.
Thank you for your thoughtful recap, Joyce. We did watch it in our home. The videography by Gavin McInness was unsettling to see after the intervening months and time away from Jan. 6th, and more devastating than anything I'd seen before. I found myself nervously rocking my foot throughout it all. As others have mentioned, I noted the continual tie-in to Trump throughout the presentation. Our YouTube TV is set, now, to DVR all the episodes so that we won't miss a minute of the hearings. I wish that I had greater confidence that it is being followed by a broad spectrum of citizens, not just those of us who have been following the Committee's efforts for the past year+. After all is said and done with the hearings, I will be watching for meaningful change in legislation to protect democracy and future elections. Am I overly optimistic? I hope not!
I was struck that from the very beginning they laid it at Trump’s door. No pussyfooting around it. I would imagine that Trump wasn’t pleased. Oh well….
I thought the presentation was masterful and compelling. As a defender of our constitutional order, Liz Chaney is nonpareil. We can only hope that her Republican colleagues will stop treating her like a Casandra.
Joyce, I’m a fan of yours! Thank you for creating this platform to write truth to what’s happening in our country. My great, great, great, great grandparents came here from Scotland and fought to keep our democracy even though they were not from the USA. They all believed in freedoms we take for granted. The Civil war was brutal and I had relative die on the battle field defending our Constitution. I’m proud of my history. For years I believed nothing would ever change since my awareness of democracy was threatened by Nixon. The Vietnam war woke me up and I protested it back then. I was a teenager who watched as my Uncle and other people I knew came back from it a changed person. I’ll never forget it.
Once awoke I started to vote but certain family members tried to convince me it wasn’t worth it because nothing ever changes was their interpretation. But I kept with my gut and my votes did count. When Hilary didn’t win against Obama it was disappointing but I believed in the greater good. I liked Obama, I had more of a familiarity with Hilary’s work.
I remember thinking at the time that God forbid something would happen to Obama, it scared me.
To the present times, I knew what Trump was all about because I was a New Yorker and observed his ways. I knew people who were screwed by him and the fact that he put out an ad about those young black men infuriated me to no end!
When he won I was blown away disappointed and enraged but I never took it out on anyone. I did remind my family members that he would destroy everything America stood for but they ignored me because they thought his policy would somehow trickle down to them. They are not rich by any means but they thought he isn’t a politician so they wanted change. Why Hilary didn’t win again was beyond me. Again disappointed.
Trump was and is still behind this craziness and this community is doing a fantastic job at getting all the facts. I’m concerned that we might go into a Civil war over these investigations if Trump is criminal charged. No one seems to be talking about this in depth and I’m getting anxious. My gut tells me Trump is going to get away with this and we might see another round of domestic terrorism more violent than the insurrection.
It seems regular working people don’t care about our democracy and that scares me.
The hearing was informative. While I generally follow news closely my husband does not. The video disturbed him and kept asking me if I should watch it. My explanation was I had watched a lot of videos in regards to the insurrection I had seen a lot of bad things. Including watching real time that day in tears. He is clear now that we are on the right side of history! He is a republican, not a Trump supporter, but was holding out hope for his party with the rest of the Trump crew. He no longer believes that they were “managing” him.....As always thanks for breaking it down!
I continue to think people can be persuaded to understand the threat to our country if they're exposed to the truth. Hope your husband has a few friends he can share his updated views with!
Hearing far exceeded my expectations. I was hoping we would be given new information and the committee delivered. Rep Thompson and Rep Cheney did a wonderful job. There was no turning away.
WHAT!! Joyce! It feels like I just turned the hearings off---and here you are with a brilliant Joycean analysis!
Joyce,
The key point for me is what will AG Garland do? If the AG and DOJ fail to act, I am certain our democracy will be in grave danger.
As you noted DOJ must bring any case with enough compelling evidence to convince a jury of Trump’s culpability beyond reasonable doubt. I hope this will happen for the sake of our children’s future.
Tom, B’ham
I found the evidence presented to be highly credible. Still more to come. But if you don't think this was an attempt to over throw the government you are hiding from the truth or you were in on it. #lockthemup
Here is my un of the mill citizen take away. The opening statements seemed to eliminate my cynical thoughts or fears this would be primarily political theater- legitmate politicing, perhaps but alas so it was clear that would not be the case last night. Phew! Second, two things intreagued me- the evidence of both the planning and timing of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers movement before the Trump speech tied together with evidence of why they were there- Trump “asked of us for our vote and to be there”. Third, the evidence that we suspected was there and now saw & will see before us, Trump had and still has a deliberate multiprong approach to undermine validity of the election and its results. And it is ongoing to this day. Third, but not least, the realty based description of what it was like on the ground. The images we have seen in the media always seemd chaotic and prior interviews always described violence, but hearing Officer Edwards calm reflective testimony with the video footage juxtaposed brought a sobering reality to what it was like to be there. The testimony about blood everywhere put an exclamation point on the hearing ‘this is real folks wake up’. And finally I am very interested in the hearings that will focus on the participants. David Brooks provocative op ed raised one point I agreed with- we need to look forward. To do that we as Americans need to understand from the participants in their own words Why? What led them to act and either claim or believe they were acting as patriots? This isnt legitmaizing their beliefs but rather like any criminal mind examination, will help inform us on how to prevent something like this from happeneing and or see it coming and stopping it to limit the damage done. I believe we are still living the insurection and this seemed to be a credible first step to acknowledging and addressin it.
Agreed, but a preliminary hearing is typically open to the public and involves lawyers on both sides as well as a judge. If this was, as you stated, more or less a grand jury proceeding, it violated the most sacred key principle. A grand jury is held in private. Every grand juror must take an oath with a vow of secrecy. Jurors aren't allowed to research cases ahead of time, as their opinions must be unbiased. The vow of secrecy makes witnesses feel safer and works to persuade them to testify. This secrecy is also designed to protect the reputation of an unindicted individual.
Thus, it came across to me as unfair, more political theater, indeed produced by a veteran TV producer! The main points as cited here in the comments are mostly designed for maximum emotional impact, with little relevance to the key objective, that of deciding what degree of culpability can be directly attributed to Trump, which everyone knows is the ultimate objective, openly acknowledged by both sides. As a student of history & propaganda, It's use of emotional videos which evoke universal revulsion, is exactly how the Nazis used Joseph Goebbels to produce propaganda to turn the German people against jews, which was chilling to realize, and Americans are wiser & more media savvy than ever, & I think they know when they are being psychologically manipulated, which I don't agree with, & would criticize even a Libertarian or family member if they used propaganda to inspire hatred towards anyone, for any reason. I don't like Trump, but two wrongs don't make a right. I am just expressing my own impressions & opinion, we can agree to disagree, I am a neutral observer stating what I see as fairly obvious. To see evil & remain silent IS evil. ✌🏻
I'll be interested to see if your views about the merits of the evidence evolve over the course of the hearings. Please continue to share them!
I honestly do not see how last evenings broadcast was propaganda. Propaganda by definition distorts truth, misusing information to create a desired narrative. But is it propaganda to lay facts bare, even if those fact elicit strong emotion in nearly all observers? I dont think so. There are times when we need to show facts in the context of the event in order to understand what happened and come to an honest conclusion.
What facts were distorted last night?. What was untrue? As far as a grand jury analogy i see the American people as the jurors. It was not meant to be a direct comparison but rather as something with similar aim.
I am appalled at the behavior of those who brought violence to our beloved capitol, not justifiable, not trying. I didn't intend to offend anyone, I'm a gay guy & a Libertarian. I think the public needed to see those, I'm just not sure if all the violence can be blamed on one person, even if it's the guy we all 'love to hate', so to speak. SCOTUS justice Brett Kavanaugh was nearly assassinated a few nights ago, & President Biden gave his assent to the protestors shouting at home, which is illegal. I'm playing devil's advocate, but what if Kavanaugh had been killed? Would we blame Joe Biden, for encouraging peaceful protest, not at a public building, but at a private residence? Pres. Biden never called off the protestors, still hasn't, as far as I know. Would we have a similar outrage & hire a TV producer to present the gory photos on Prime Time? If that's not political theater, I can't imagine a better example. It just seemed staged for maximum emotion, & I'm sure there would be documentary films made to shows that graphic footage, just wish it wasn't as politicized as it seemed. I joined this forum because I think we can be more united & need civil discourse, and I hope these hearings don't divide American's further. To what end? I'm not convinced Trump could win, but I'll be glad when it's over, I'm usually very positive, joined not knowing the hearing would coincide or that it would bother me, just will hold off on discussion until it's over. :-)
One thought and a question. The thought: I'll be curious to see what kind of TV ratings the hearing received. And the question: In the event that the DOJ does indeed pursue a criminal case against Trump, perhaps for seditious conspiracy, what is the range of punishment in terms of prison time? Are there guidelines for this kind of crime?
Thanks for a great recap of highlights. I found the hearing both riveting and blood pressure raising.
Thanks for this recap, Joyce. I thought the opening from both the Chairman and Rep. Cheney went a bit long and was a little too lawyerly. Worried it would lose people, since our society seems to have the attention span of a gnat. I think it struck the right tone in terms of the seriousness of the occasion as it shouldn’t have to be sensationalized, but wish they’d mixed in some of the video a bit sooner. That said, once they did get into the video and testimony, it was very compelling. I was relieved that they used the phrase domestic terrorism repeatedly and that they connected to Donald Trump from the outset. Clearly, they are not going to be afraid to go there and to connect the dots. I don’t believe it will reach members of the cult, but am hopeful it will spur the apathetic crowd to wake up, realize how serious the threat is, and vote.
What I found so disturbing about all of this, is that when everyone acknowledged that the election in fact, had not been stolen, and trump refused to step down, that no one did anything to get him out of power. Everyone was worried about what he would do, and "talked" about invoking the 25th Amendment, but did nothing. Even after the second impeachment, all those republicans just looked the other way. Not to mention the number of republicans who voted against certifying the electoral votes. Are these the republicans Liz was talking to when she made the statement about how they will be remembered? I'm just so angry about all the crime and abuse of power that took place for four long years. All those who were involved, like Pruitt, Zenky, Perry, Mnuchin, Kushner, Ivanka, Pompeo, those who were using the federal government to abuse power and get rich. I'm rambling, but it should have been stopped, way before January 6, 2021.
agree. i watched the hearing but i still don’t have a lot of confidence that people at highest levels will be held accountable - and it may be hard to prove per guidelines Joyce outlined. i hope the Committee gets into details of how people were actively trying to take over the the gov’t and that it is still ongoing.
You are absolutely spot on! Trump should have been stopped long before Jan 6. Infuriates me no end that so many sat back then wrote a book telling about Trump's wrongdoings after he was voted out.
Starting the hearings with Barr”s testimony was a good move in my opinion. Also addressing the attempts to include Republicans in the process. The hearing also laid out Mc Carthy”s spinelessness pretty well. I did find it difficult to recognize new information because we’ve been receiving “trickle truth” for a year and a half and I can’t keep track of details I’ve heard before. If the Fox “News” response is any indication Maga is worried about these hearings.
I was stunned by the violence recorded on Nick Quested videotape and horrified at the small size of the police force that initially tried to hold back the growing, dangerous mob. Carolyn Edwards and Quested's testimonies were riveting and clearly showed the level of violence, i.e. not a peaceful protest getting out of hand!, and planning. Quested comment that Trump sent the bulk of the mob to the Capitol to help Proud Boys and Promise Keepers storm the Capitol, told the real story. He made it clear that he was there because he received a subpoena. I sense that he still has much more to say about what he saw and heard.
Every congressional representative should watch this. It should be mandatory. Every American should be watching this! The fact that Fox News is not airing the hearing makes me angry, because where I live most of the people will not see this and yet talk about it without knowing the truth.
One more thought: while I was watching video snippets of various individual testimonies it occurred to me one criticism would that they were taken out of context to be misleading. But, the Quested and Edward's testimonies nailed it for me. Quested's moment by moment description of his video, and Carolyn Edward’s account and video of her first injury and pepper spray/tear gas moved me to tears.
Just a little correction, last nights witness was Nick Quested, not Gavin McInnes.
Amy, thanks for catching this. I am not sure how I picked up on the other name instead. I'll correct my post if I can.
Thank you for your thoughtful recap, Joyce. We did watch it in our home. The videography by Gavin McInness was unsettling to see after the intervening months and time away from Jan. 6th, and more devastating than anything I'd seen before. I found myself nervously rocking my foot throughout it all. As others have mentioned, I noted the continual tie-in to Trump throughout the presentation. Our YouTube TV is set, now, to DVR all the episodes so that we won't miss a minute of the hearings. I wish that I had greater confidence that it is being followed by a broad spectrum of citizens, not just those of us who have been following the Committee's efforts for the past year+. After all is said and done with the hearings, I will be watching for meaningful change in legislation to protect democracy and future elections. Am I overly optimistic? I hope not!
I was struck that from the very beginning they laid it at Trump’s door. No pussyfooting around it. I would imagine that Trump wasn’t pleased. Oh well….
I didn’t get a chance to watch today, but your analysis makes me feel I did. Thank you…..
I thought the presentation was masterful and compelling. As a defender of our constitutional order, Liz Chaney is nonpareil. We can only hope that her Republican colleagues will stop treating her like a Casandra.
Joyce, I’m a fan of yours! Thank you for creating this platform to write truth to what’s happening in our country. My great, great, great, great grandparents came here from Scotland and fought to keep our democracy even though they were not from the USA. They all believed in freedoms we take for granted. The Civil war was brutal and I had relative die on the battle field defending our Constitution. I’m proud of my history. For years I believed nothing would ever change since my awareness of democracy was threatened by Nixon. The Vietnam war woke me up and I protested it back then. I was a teenager who watched as my Uncle and other people I knew came back from it a changed person. I’ll never forget it.
Once awoke I started to vote but certain family members tried to convince me it wasn’t worth it because nothing ever changes was their interpretation. But I kept with my gut and my votes did count. When Hilary didn’t win against Obama it was disappointing but I believed in the greater good. I liked Obama, I had more of a familiarity with Hilary’s work.
I remember thinking at the time that God forbid something would happen to Obama, it scared me.
To the present times, I knew what Trump was all about because I was a New Yorker and observed his ways. I knew people who were screwed by him and the fact that he put out an ad about those young black men infuriated me to no end!
When he won I was blown away disappointed and enraged but I never took it out on anyone. I did remind my family members that he would destroy everything America stood for but they ignored me because they thought his policy would somehow trickle down to them. They are not rich by any means but they thought he isn’t a politician so they wanted change. Why Hilary didn’t win again was beyond me. Again disappointed.
Trump was and is still behind this craziness and this community is doing a fantastic job at getting all the facts. I’m concerned that we might go into a Civil war over these investigations if Trump is criminal charged. No one seems to be talking about this in depth and I’m getting anxious. My gut tells me Trump is going to get away with this and we might see another round of domestic terrorism more violent than the insurrection.
It seems regular working people don’t care about our democracy and that scares me.