I absolutely screamed with joy when this suit came across the tv screen earlier today! Let’s face it, TFG will continue to run his mouth unless someone attaches a monetary value to everything that comes out of it regarding E.Jean! I applaud her guts and stamina for continuing to fight back! Thank you too Joyce for explaining the legal jargon to the rest of us. Peace👏☮️
I'm not convinced TFG is capable of shutting up even if a monetary value *is* attached to everything comes out of his mouth. In his psyche the connection between "cause" and "effect" is broken: most of us at least consider possible consequences when we speak or act, but TFG does not. The only way he's going to avoid incriminating himself again and again and again is if his lawyers muzzle and handcuff him, and last I looked there were laws against that.
This is important to remember. I hear too many people thinking it's because TFG is stupid. He is not stupid. He is very, very canny. What he's been doing all along has always gotten him what he wants. Now, for maybe the first time in his life, he's running into consequences. He's not taking it well.
No one gets as far as Trump because they're stupid. He's not well educated, probably because daddy bought his Wharton degree after paying off every academy he attended. Trump's real teacher was Fred Trump, who was also probably a sociopath. The father, and lawyer Roy Cohn, taught the son how to grift, cheat, lie and steal.
The number of underage girls and women Trump abused while learning how to exploit them when he owned Trump Models is something I read about during the 2016 presidential race. Trump partnered up with John Casablancas in the 1990s, and was an apt pupil.
I disagree. "The first indication of stupidity is a complete lack of shame." Sigmund Freud. 45 has no shame, he revels in his cruelty. I'd wager most of us might get a momentary charge out of being mean-spirited, but we'd also later feel ashamed.
I think you need to read up on personality disorders, specifically, antisocial and narcissistic disorders. Shame? How does one feel shame when they believe they can do whatever they like?
Exactly and thanks (both of you) for underscoring the principle.
There’s so many current ‘situations’ with principally the exact same reasonings, in facts, that need -the ‘standing up to..’
yes continue the prayers..learning can be a painful lesson for diehards -but needed
yes continue to 💙vote 💙 for proven consistent leaders who stand by their convictions of ‘for the people’
we are a racist society Mr Scott, et al, have you not been paying attention? By that very statement you place yourself in with the same magical delusion-ists and say what your people want to hear/read/swallow. We . Make. Mistakes. WE need to change what is obvious and continue striving for excellence -Rome wasn’t built in a day ...but sure can be brought to its knees/down by the selfish and puppets of evil conspirators.
I think E. Jean Carroll should also sue CNN, for they knowingly and recklessly published the defamatory material by providing the known prevaricator with the very friendly forum for repeating the slander. And they did it for the same reason that Faux News defamed Dominion: $$$
The CEO of CNN, Chris Licht, stated after the event that "we made news tonight." His job is not to make news, it is to report news, not to make sure defamation occurs again and again. It was an entirely foreseeable event and CNN should be held to account for that.
The CNN airing was very one-sided. No opposing views either to counter TFG’s lies. I wonder if it is in CNN’s by laws to report the news, not make the news? I wonder what the CNN news anchors were saying to each other offset?
That's another reason why she should sue CNN as well. Discovery in that lawsuit would probably yield a treasure trove of emails, texts, DMs, antisocial media posts, etc., among CNN employees that would back a lot of the reporting I've seen about how CNN wants to displace Faux News, and the truth be damned.
You sure do seem to be presuming a lot by ascribing unwarranted motives to me, given that all I seek is accountability for CNN. They willfully and knowingly provided the despicable forum for IQ45 to maximize the cruelty of his continuing defamation by stacking the audience with a bunch of sociopaths who mocked E. Jean and applauded more defamation and sexual abuse. I would gladly file the suit myself, but I would need a client, and last I checked, she's represented by a very capable attorney.
Among the stories I've read is a virtual parade of high-profile on-air talent either being dressed down by Licht-spittle for being "too emotional," (Oliver Darcy) or on the other end, Licht probably getting an earful from CNN talent a whole lot more valuable to the network than him (Christiane Amanpour).
Yeah, Licht seems a little bit unclear on the difference between covering and "making" news. The former is what a news network is SUPPOSED to do, the latter is what trashy, tabloid networks/shows do.
Meidas Touch, which I generally like, does the same thing. I was a reporter years back, and people like to blether on social media about what news, reporting, and defamation is with very little nuance, so it's a thing.
Apples and oranges. CNN pushed back, however poorly. (And I think Kaplan should write CNN a thank you note for splendidly documenting the bad behavior on tape so as to streamline and enhance Carroll I.
Thank you, Joyce, for distilling a lot of legalese for us lay folks to understand. And kudos once again to E. Jean Carroll for continuing the good fight. Al Capone was brought down by tax evasion. May IQ45 be brought down by a strong and righteous woman.
Amen to that! The whole world's women marched with us in 2016. Appalled, disgusted and rightly frightened, we stood up and yet nothing has changed. Infact it is now so much worse. I promise never to give up hope or stop fighting but damn this sh*t is exhausting. I suppose that's the plan but they underestimate us as usual. I've got a just turned legal adult daughter and she will definitely take no prisoners. There's a ton more just like her. They've watched laws in place their whole lives that protect their bodily autonomy wiped away in an instant.
They are pissed and they are not afraid. I suppose worrying that you might die in your classroom at any moment will do that.
That's been my longtime descriptor until TFG took its place. Just thought I'd reinvigorate it. Seems appropriate since the dumb a$$ is going to talk himself into even more lawsuits and legal wranglings.
America encourages students to stand up to bullies and urges schools to support victims of bullying and to do lots of teaching about bullies - - and yet at least one-third of Americans applaud pathetic bullies like Trump and DeSantis and want one of them as president. There's a serious disconnect between what we teach and what we practice.
Does "America" do any such thing? I don't think so. Some school districts take bullying seriously, but they nearly always view it as an individual issue, not a systemic one. Bullying by other names is endemic to our political and economic system. If you have the law and economic clout on your side, you can "bully" anyone.
I see Trump voters, today's Republican Party, and the so-called "Christian nationalists" as the all-too-logical culmination of a prominent strand in U.S. history. It's been building into a tsunami at least since the Reagan administration. And most of us were on snooze-control until the 2016 election.
By fawning over him for so many years and persistently lauding his so-called success, the media in this country has played a significant role in creating the excremental monster that is Donald J. Trump. On top of that, I am absolutely befuddled and exasperated by those who continue to heroize the man.
Steam away, Kenneth! I sometimes watch the journalists who can stomach interviewing the supporters of such an obvious miserable example of a man. They are uniformly ignorant, cannot respond to most questions, except with QAnon theories and they live in an alternate universe from mine, dare I say, ours. It didn’t used to be this way, in my 73 years on the planet.
Yes, characterizing their worldview as an alternate universe profoundly different from mine (and yours) is not wrong.
I have lost friends because of the toxic division Donald Trump has sown. A few of them I've known for the better part of my 70 years (and counting). There has always been discord, and democracies, by their very nature, have always been rife with contention and tumult, but I never thought I'd live to see anything like this in the country I so dearly love.
It is not possible for me to loathe another human being as much as I loathe Donald J. Trump.
It sure didn't, and I am 73 years old too! There's not one Republican in Congress whom I respect. They either applaud Trump, or say nothing! At one point, I was thinking of listing all of their crimes, but decided that dwelling on such negativity isn't the way I wish to live the rest of my life.
The only real success tRump has had is to stoke hatred, racism, and division in a percentage of the population. How could someone who declares bankruptcy six times be considered a success? And he bankrupted casinos, for gosh sake! Rick Wilson is right; everything tRump touches dies.
So glad you said this out loud, Christopher. Thank you. Think about it. Why E. Jean Carroll? What I think is that she's the only person who has had the courage and the singular focus to lead and get to the heart of the matter; to clear away the moss and algae, and all the gobbledygook that's gotten attached to holding TFG accountable, and to get to the HEART OF THE MATTER: Other living things who are not CERTAIN TALL WHITE MEN IN POWER, ARE SUFFOCATING IN A TRUMP-TYPE WORLD. E Jean has paired herself with a wonderful legal team, and they, together, have done it!
Good for E. J. Carroll but until the Frumper has to actually pay anything, nothing is gained. This person is abusing the legal system and about 30% of the American public cheers him on. I am enormously frustrated the 'normal' press seems to help perpetuate this fraud.
Hmmm - good idea. It'll be interesting to see what Jack Smith comes up with after subpoena of IQ45's business records for while he was ---- since 2017.
If what I've read about Jack Smith is correct, I'm hoping he's not only going to pulverize Trump, but all the Congressional Republicans who were involved in the Insurrection, including the 11 House members who met with Trump, Pence, Meadows and Giuliani on December 21. 2020 to overturn the 2020 Election. https://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-white-house-meeting-december-21-2020-election-2022-7
He really can't help himself so I will bet that regardless of the damages imposed, he will do it again sometime and then fund raise off the fact that she sues him again! And she will win! I hope she gets 25M from this case and donates to worthwhile charities for the poor and working class in New York City!
When anyine doesn't pay their bills, the offended party can garnishee their pay check. When a three year old repeatedly breaks a rule, and abuses a toy, we take the toy away.. Trump's properties should be stripped to pay E. Jean.
This kind of behavior by the defendant should prompt the judge to take action irrespective of the plaintiff's wishes. The defendant is thumbing his nose at the court itself, mocking the work of the jury and disregarding the court's ruling as irrelevant. Since a civil court doesn't issue criminal sentences, if I were the judge, I'd just slap on about 5x the judgement for damages in punitive damages to start with, in addition to an order for the defendant to cease his slanderous comments or face increasing punitive damages not limited to seizure of real assets (buildings and golf courses). Money is meaningless to this guy, when he can raise millions from his acolytes off of an indictment. I think he does care about his guilded tower with his name in 10 foot letters on it.
I keep hearing in my head "... and the Hits just keep comin'". Brava for EJC, she's a tough lady of character. This seems to be a well reasoned strategy. "Piling on" in this case is just fine in my book.
Perhaps now, due to the courage of a single woman, perhaps now, Congressmen will stand up and denounce relentlessly, publicly, the vocal violence and bullish behaviors of this former president infecting our public life.
It would be only fair that these attitudes be constantly denounced by Congressmen sitting safely in chambers.
On May 18th Preet Bharara interviewed Tom Nichols who stressed how relentlessly denouncing that is essential for a sane public life. E. Jean shows the way.
E. Jean Carroll strikes again as well she should. Trump just won’t help himself so it will be up to those stronger and smarter to show him the many errors of his ornery ways.
Yes, Ms Carroll has bigger testicles than any of the MAGA GOP. I’m so proud of her and her team. Class act all the way. As a result of the trial & the verdict, you would think 45IQ (thanks for the new name) would know not to discuss her, especially since Carrol 2 has not finalized. I hope he has to pay her money every time he says something derogatory agst her. 45IQ is not fit to be President. Period. Thanks, Joyce! Thanks, Gang, for the chuckles & the wisdom!
I absolutely screamed with joy when this suit came across the tv screen earlier today! Let’s face it, TFG will continue to run his mouth unless someone attaches a monetary value to everything that comes out of it regarding E.Jean! I applaud her guts and stamina for continuing to fight back! Thank you too Joyce for explaining the legal jargon to the rest of us. Peace👏☮️
I'm not convinced TFG is capable of shutting up even if a monetary value *is* attached to everything comes out of his mouth. In his psyche the connection between "cause" and "effect" is broken: most of us at least consider possible consequences when we speak or act, but TFG does not. The only way he's going to avoid incriminating himself again and again and again is if his lawyers muzzle and handcuff him, and last I looked there were laws against that.
The inability to learn from consequences is classic sociopathic behavior.
This is important to remember. I hear too many people thinking it's because TFG is stupid. He is not stupid. He is very, very canny. What he's been doing all along has always gotten him what he wants. Now, for maybe the first time in his life, he's running into consequences. He's not taking it well.
And we can thank a couple of brilliant, savvy women for introducing him to accountability!!
I don't need any more T-shirts, but if someone makes a good one with E. Jean and Roberta on it, I am *so* buying it!
Same here! Would make a great gift as well
I grew up with people not unlike him. (Yes, he's not a one off.) Horrific and sneaky can exist in the same person.
No one gets as far as Trump because they're stupid. He's not well educated, probably because daddy bought his Wharton degree after paying off every academy he attended. Trump's real teacher was Fred Trump, who was also probably a sociopath. The father, and lawyer Roy Cohn, taught the son how to grift, cheat, lie and steal.
The number of underage girls and women Trump abused while learning how to exploit them when he owned Trump Models is something I read about during the 2016 presidential race. Trump partnered up with John Casablancas in the 1990s, and was an apt pupil.
I disagree. "The first indication of stupidity is a complete lack of shame." Sigmund Freud. 45 has no shame, he revels in his cruelty. I'd wager most of us might get a momentary charge out of being mean-spirited, but we'd also later feel ashamed.
I think you need to read up on personality disorders, specifically, antisocial and narcissistic disorders. Shame? How does one feel shame when they believe they can do whatever they like?
Might look at that again. She said "most of us might get a charge... but we'd also later feel ashamed". (Specifically a counterpoint to what T does.)
Please try to not use diagnostic terms as a synonym for evil. Call out evil, don't call it names.
I use terms I feel are appropriate. And evil is a name. Of course Trump is evil. But he also has all the classic traits of a sociopath.
The laws he has no respect for.
Indeed. He would happily muzzle, handcuff, and "lock up" anyone who disagrees with him.
and worse.
Well said.
Exactly and thanks (both of you) for underscoring the principle.
There’s so many current ‘situations’ with principally the exact same reasonings, in facts, that need -the ‘standing up to..’
yes continue the prayers..learning can be a painful lesson for diehards -but needed
yes continue to 💙vote 💙 for proven consistent leaders who stand by their convictions of ‘for the people’
we are a racist society Mr Scott, et al, have you not been paying attention? By that very statement you place yourself in with the same magical delusion-ists and say what your people want to hear/read/swallow. We . Make. Mistakes. WE need to change what is obvious and continue striving for excellence -Rome wasn’t built in a day ...but sure can be brought to its knees/down by the selfish and puppets of evil conspirators.
💙 VOTE THE BLUE TSUNAMI 💙
I think E. Jean Carroll should also sue CNN, for they knowingly and recklessly published the defamatory material by providing the known prevaricator with the very friendly forum for repeating the slander. And they did it for the same reason that Faux News defamed Dominion: $$$
The CEO of CNN, Chris Licht, stated after the event that "we made news tonight." His job is not to make news, it is to report news, not to make sure defamation occurs again and again. It was an entirely foreseeable event and CNN should be held to account for that.
Yes, sue the Cretin News Network out of existence and head cretin Licht into his next lifetime.
I call him Licht-spittle.
Is that open source or do I have to steal it? :-)
Attribution unnecessary. Make it go viral!
Yessir!
Plus they chose an audience that laughed at the repeated defamation!
That was a disgrace.
The CNN airing was very one-sided. No opposing views either to counter TFG’s lies. I wonder if it is in CNN’s by laws to report the news, not make the news? I wonder what the CNN news anchors were saying to each other offset?
That's another reason why she should sue CNN as well. Discovery in that lawsuit would probably yield a treasure trove of emails, texts, DMs, antisocial media posts, etc., among CNN employees that would back a lot of the reporting I've seen about how CNN wants to displace Faux News, and the truth be damned.
Let's you and him go fight... is expensive.
And calling for a sex abuse survivor to carry YOUR vengeance is creepy.
Step up and file the suit yourself if you believe in this. And go broke, the way you are calling for E Jean to do for your gladiatorial self pleasure.
You sure do seem to be presuming a lot by ascribing unwarranted motives to me, given that all I seek is accountability for CNN. They willfully and knowingly provided the despicable forum for IQ45 to maximize the cruelty of his continuing defamation by stacking the audience with a bunch of sociopaths who mocked E. Jean and applauded more defamation and sexual abuse. I would gladly file the suit myself, but I would need a client, and last I checked, she's represented by a very capable attorney.
Among the stories I've read is a virtual parade of high-profile on-air talent either being dressed down by Licht-spittle for being "too emotional," (Oliver Darcy) or on the other end, Licht probably getting an earful from CNN talent a whole lot more valuable to the network than him (Christiane Amanpour).
Yeah, Licht seems a little bit unclear on the difference between covering and "making" news. The former is what a news network is SUPPOSED to do, the latter is what trashy, tabloid networks/shows do.
Meidas Touch, which I generally like, does the same thing. I was a reporter years back, and people like to blether on social media about what news, reporting, and defamation is with very little nuance, so it's a thing.
Apples and oranges. CNN pushed back, however poorly. (And I think Kaplan should write CNN a thank you note for splendidly documenting the bad behavior on tape so as to streamline and enhance Carroll I.
Thank you, Joyce, for distilling a lot of legalese for us lay folks to understand. And kudos once again to E. Jean Carroll for continuing the good fight. Al Capone was brought down by tax evasion. May IQ45 be brought down by a strong and righteous woman.
Amen to that! The whole world's women marched with us in 2016. Appalled, disgusted and rightly frightened, we stood up and yet nothing has changed. Infact it is now so much worse. I promise never to give up hope or stop fighting but damn this sh*t is exhausting. I suppose that's the plan but they underestimate us as usual. I've got a just turned legal adult daughter and she will definitely take no prisoners. There's a ton more just like her. They've watched laws in place their whole lives that protect their bodily autonomy wiped away in an instant.
They are pissed and they are not afraid. I suppose worrying that you might die in your classroom at any moment will do that.
Haha! IQ45. Good one!
That's been my longtime descriptor until TFG took its place. Just thought I'd reinvigorate it. Seems appropriate since the dumb a$$ is going to talk himself into even more lawsuits and legal wranglings.
America encourages students to stand up to bullies and urges schools to support victims of bullying and to do lots of teaching about bullies - - and yet at least one-third of Americans applaud pathetic bullies like Trump and DeSantis and want one of them as president. There's a serious disconnect between what we teach and what we practice.
Does "America" do any such thing? I don't think so. Some school districts take bullying seriously, but they nearly always view it as an individual issue, not a systemic one. Bullying by other names is endemic to our political and economic system. If you have the law and economic clout on your side, you can "bully" anyone.
I see Trump voters, today's Republican Party, and the so-called "Christian nationalists" as the all-too-logical culmination of a prominent strand in U.S. history. It's been building into a tsunami at least since the Reagan administration. And most of us were on snooze-control until the 2016 election.
What is your source for one third?
I think she is referring to the percentage of voters in the 2016 election who voted for tfg.
The 2020 election was also in that ballpark.
Good for E. Jean Carroll and good for our country.
By fawning over him for so many years and persistently lauding his so-called success, the media in this country has played a significant role in creating the excremental monster that is Donald J. Trump. On top of that, I am absolutely befuddled and exasperated by those who continue to heroize the man.
I'm just letting off steam.
Steam away, Kenneth! I sometimes watch the journalists who can stomach interviewing the supporters of such an obvious miserable example of a man. They are uniformly ignorant, cannot respond to most questions, except with QAnon theories and they live in an alternate universe from mine, dare I say, ours. It didn’t used to be this way, in my 73 years on the planet.
Yes, characterizing their worldview as an alternate universe profoundly different from mine (and yours) is not wrong.
I have lost friends because of the toxic division Donald Trump has sown. A few of them I've known for the better part of my 70 years (and counting). There has always been discord, and democracies, by their very nature, have always been rife with contention and tumult, but I never thought I'd live to see anything like this in the country I so dearly love.
It is not possible for me to loathe another human being as much as I loathe Donald J. Trump.
Loathing is a fine first step.
Are you getting out the blue vote?
Donating to campaigns?
Donating to lawsuits?
DOING something?
Yes! Kathy with a great name!
It sure didn't, and I am 73 years old too! There's not one Republican in Congress whom I respect. They either applaud Trump, or say nothing! At one point, I was thinking of listing all of their crimes, but decided that dwelling on such negativity isn't the way I wish to live the rest of my life.
The only real success tRump has had is to stoke hatred, racism, and division in a percentage of the population. How could someone who declares bankruptcy six times be considered a success? And he bankrupted casinos, for gosh sake! Rick Wilson is right; everything tRump touches dies.
"...the excremental monster..." 🤣👏
Why is it the only person swinging for truth and Justice is E Jean Carroll. Beat the bastard!
So glad you said this out loud, Christopher. Thank you. Think about it. Why E. Jean Carroll? What I think is that she's the only person who has had the courage and the singular focus to lead and get to the heart of the matter; to clear away the moss and algae, and all the gobbledygook that's gotten attached to holding TFG accountable, and to get to the HEART OF THE MATTER: Other living things who are not CERTAIN TALL WHITE MEN IN POWER, ARE SUFFOCATING IN A TRUMP-TYPE WORLD. E Jean has paired herself with a wonderful legal team, and they, together, have done it!
Good for E. J. Carroll but until the Frumper has to actually pay anything, nothing is gained. This person is abusing the legal system and about 30% of the American public cheers him on. I am enormously frustrated the 'normal' press seems to help perpetuate this fraud.
WERSBA
Want to force IQ45 to pay up? How about putting liens on some of his properties?!
Hmmm - good idea. It'll be interesting to see what Jack Smith comes up with after subpoena of IQ45's business records for while he was ---- since 2017.
If what I've read about Jack Smith is correct, I'm hoping he's not only going to pulverize Trump, but all the Congressional Republicans who were involved in the Insurrection, including the 11 House members who met with Trump, Pence, Meadows and Giuliani on December 21. 2020 to overturn the 2020 Election. https://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-white-house-meeting-december-21-2020-election-2022-7
He really can't help himself so I will bet that regardless of the damages imposed, he will do it again sometime and then fund raise off the fact that she sues him again! And she will win! I hope she gets 25M from this case and donates to worthwhile charities for the poor and working class in New York City!
Double or triple that amount. That might get Dumbass Donald's attention.
Start by adding zeroes. After all, they popped Alex Jones for nearly a billion.
Ira, from your lips to God’s ears....
Thanks!
When anyine doesn't pay their bills, the offended party can garnishee their pay check. When a three year old repeatedly breaks a rule, and abuses a toy, we take the toy away.. Trump's properties should be stripped to pay E. Jean.
Yes but monsters such as Alex Jones find ways around the law.
The whole world knows what US media is trying not to tell us. Its perfectly obvious that Donald is a traitor and deserves to be treated like one.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1QFWxYLF3iJB8YsDAPyahY?si=2hTVsVEyRAOlC_KxW9oZbA
Gaslite Nation
24 May 2023
Dictatorship: It's Easier Than You Think
Interview with Olga Lautman, Russian mafia expert
This kind of behavior by the defendant should prompt the judge to take action irrespective of the plaintiff's wishes. The defendant is thumbing his nose at the court itself, mocking the work of the jury and disregarding the court's ruling as irrelevant. Since a civil court doesn't issue criminal sentences, if I were the judge, I'd just slap on about 5x the judgement for damages in punitive damages to start with, in addition to an order for the defendant to cease his slanderous comments or face increasing punitive damages not limited to seizure of real assets (buildings and golf courses). Money is meaningless to this guy, when he can raise millions from his acolytes off of an indictment. I think he does care about his guilded tower with his name in 10 foot letters on it.
But that might be irrelevant in the future.
Trump just can’t help himself can he? And the Republicans want to support him again for the Presidency. It’s shameful.
It's unconscionable.
I keep hearing in my head "... and the Hits just keep comin'". Brava for EJC, she's a tough lady of character. This seems to be a well reasoned strategy. "Piling on" in this case is just fine in my book.
Perhaps now, due to the courage of a single woman, perhaps now, Congressmen will stand up and denounce relentlessly, publicly, the vocal violence and bullish behaviors of this former president infecting our public life.
It would be only fair that these attitudes be constantly denounced by Congressmen sitting safely in chambers.
On May 18th Preet Bharara interviewed Tom Nichols who stressed how relentlessly denouncing that is essential for a sane public life. E. Jean shows the way.
E. Jean Carroll strikes again as well she should. Trump just won’t help himself so it will be up to those stronger and smarter to show him the many errors of his ornery ways.
Yes! And this judge took him to school—to avoid him saying he didn’t know … 😂
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/judge-orders-trump-to-attend-lecture-on-rules-after-worries-hell-use-evidence-to-slam-witnesses_n_645fb826e4b09eef8306d463/amp
How long do you think he will blow these rules all to smithereens? I’ll take 1 hour for $5.00
I think the Over/Under Vegas line is one minute 45 seconds. I'm taking the under.
Smart move. I forgot the over/under bet.
That was yesterday. He blew it right after. Sociopaths don't follow rules. They always charm their way out of things.
Yes, Ms Carroll has bigger testicles than any of the MAGA GOP. I’m so proud of her and her team. Class act all the way. As a result of the trial & the verdict, you would think 45IQ (thanks for the new name) would know not to discuss her, especially since Carrol 2 has not finalized. I hope he has to pay her money every time he says something derogatory agst her. 45IQ is not fit to be President. Period. Thanks, Joyce! Thanks, Gang, for the chuckles & the wisdom!