Before we get to the serious stuff: If you’re like me and saw the video of AOC talking intently with Republican congressman Paul Gosar (R-AZ), purveyor of the big lie, on the first day of failed voting to select a new speaker of the House, you may have wondered what they were discussing so seriously. Now we get a delightfully bad take on what that conversation was about.
Ruby and Shaye need to sue Trump for defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress (if it’s a tort in Georgia). Trump’s continued lies about these ladies, in light of the harm they’ve endured as a result of his lies, is cruel and unconscionable.
Thank you Barbara; I have long been an advocate of ordinary folks pusuing severe emotional damages for the breach of ancient torts such as defamation, infliction of emotional distress both negigent & intentional particularly when the conduct is despicable.
I also agree with the aggressive pursuit of commercial defamation and gross commercial fraud by national Election-result fraudsters.
A number of these cases will be coming to trial in the months ahead. Damages can be paid or settled when the Perp has or is covered by a liability polic(ies). Other remedies available as well.
I'm in your age range and saw enough history. I was born when McCarthyism was at its peak (and "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance). In 3rd grade, we hid under my desk in case war broke out or we all went home. I voted for Reagan instead of Carter and have lived with guilt ever since I watched the slaughter while at work watching the U.S. turn red. I voted for Nader in NY because I knew NY was going to Gore.
Now, I feel like we're in free fall. Mary L. Trump couldn't figure out why former republicans were following her unc off a cliff. We know why now...
Cool! You're in NC. We were there when the gov. I called The Count (after the Sesame Street Count). Yay, too, I couldn't remember his name and had to look him up - it was McCrory. We moved from outside NYC to NC in 2010 and back north later.
Warning about local papers. The Rockland Gannett (Suffern area in NY) and most other small newspapers were bought by the super wealthy. Our Morning Call has very little about the candidates so information about them is not getting out there (on purpose). It's already shown to be messing up elections.
We now have a speaker (and that stays lower case). Yuck but Jeffries did pretty well for most boxing rounds.
Mary is great. Her writing can be magical and you can subscribe to her newsletter on substack. She allows us to see a little into her unc's head.
I am doing everything my body allows me to. I'm an old-er and apparently aging activist. I look at all the mileage I put on my feet and wondered if it was worth is since we're in trouble now. As HRC said if the (my words) republicans get control of this country, we won't recognize it in 5 years. I also believe if I hadn't been out there, this might've happened even sooner (the change in our country).
When the march was held the day after the Malignant Narcissist was pushed into office, we were out protesting in Asheville. I walked with the NC speaker of the house (a democrat) who said I wouldn't believe what the republicans are doing to the state legislature - they were doing everything in their evil little minds to shut down Cooper and stopping the democrats before Cooper (who had just been elected).
I hope so too. I think it goes beyond emotional distress and defamation -- imagine one of Trump's unhinged followers physically going after Freeman or Moss because they were inspired by Trump's lies.
I kept waiting for the GOP slap down of Trump for bringing up Ruby Freeman in his vicious post but of course they were all bickering in the House and playing the 'Who gets the big gavel' at the table.
Thanks Joyce. I would like to understand the process (rational)/why we give prosecutors the power to not prosecute a case... it seems so ripe for corruption. I understand the part about there being enough evidence to convict. It's like in the case of Meadows, and many others over the years, that the decision seems suspect to us lay folks. Maybe you've covered this and I missed it. If so please point to when, so I can read. Happy New Year
HURRAY!!!!! We had a backup plan. If the insurrectionist who makes desantis look sane running for gov. won, we got an estimate on our house and knew it would change but it was a start. We were going to get the heck outta Dodge.
Was in Indivisible in Asheville back when it was starting up. I left it when I learned about the budding love with putin and put my focus there. It's a great organization.
Perhaps through these awful times, we are teaching our kids that civilization itself can die without morality and conscience. Decency and fairness and good character are what distinguishes us from the vicious and wicked who beset every society at some time or another. Liberty and justice for all, is not just happy talk. They are the very oxygen supply of civilization.
Most races were close and while we were told it was a free and fair election, I sent my geek sis to find out how we could tell if votes were hacked. She majored in cyber security but I never did find out.
I asked a friend who is black and a veteran what she thought about Fetterman due to this:
She said she really likes him and she lived in Pittsburgh when he was living there. I was taken aback but I trust her. I was leery about it and voted for the tamer democrat in the primary but Conor Lamb probably would've lost to the dimwit oz.
You're absolutely correct, Joyce. The last thing a bully expects is for someone to strike back. They're inured to expect their victims to turn tail and run. The more we stand up to them, the less effective their bullying becomes.
I keep wondering…is there a reason why Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman can’t/shouldn’t file defamation charges against Trump? At this point he is a private citizen that continues to spread dangerous lies about them. What am I missing?
Not missing anything but, there are many case strategy issues to consider. Trump Org is now a Judgment Debtor in NY. tfg & coconspirators are being sliced & diced in many criminal & civil matters. Need Defendants & Codefendants who can pay Ruby & Shaye damages. I would not rule out a RICO action which requires an experienced Plaintiffs' Legal Team & offers triple damages. Recommend consulting with the Legal Team who obtained immense damages in the Sandy Hook Shootings smear of children & parents by a Major Troll.
An attorney client (confidential) consultation over facetime or a protected App of law firm would be best. I would check in with local ACLU office who knows how to.pierce any defenses.
I agree with everything you have to say Professor Vance. Other than voting at 18 when I naively voted out of pure idealism, all my voting has been strategic and considering not only appointments to the Supreme Courts, but the Federal Courts who typically decide more cases, as well as health, education and environment have been priorities. Now foreign policy matters a lot too. I know for a lot of Americans the issues are economy and crime, but I see those two issues as following from the other issues. We need judges that represent our nation and are qualified to do their jobs. They should be politically impartial, but that is not the case in our activist Supreme Court. I had colleagues in my last job who increasingly were Millennials that did not vote, or read books. They were into YouTube videos, comics, and working out. They have had no experience of government that is actually for the people instead of for corporations and as long as they make enough money to accomplish what they want, which is to buy a home, send their children to "good" schools, pay for their endless after school lessons, buy "organic" foods, with some occasional travel on vacations, they do not expect much. I have been working on getting them to vote, but have not been successful so far. It seems that as long as they feel that they are doing well enough no matter who wins, and since their children are little, they do not seem to see anything as affecting them. It is just shocking to me. Since they teach in an elite private school that gives them a huge break on tuition, they don't start thinking about the cost of education in the USA until their children get to be college age, which for the ones I am talking about is a long way off.--Our daughter is a senior and is not applying to USA universities. She will go where tuition is free and where it is safer. She is fluent in German and Austria ranks 5 for safety, Germany ranks 16. The USA is at 129. If you scroll down this chart in the link below you will see that there are something like 28 or 29 African countries deemed safer than the USA.
My daughter's friends who are staying here are avoiding states that have prohibitions on abortion. A few are staying in Illinois or going to the East and West Coasts. As for Congress, the best course of action would be if 6 moderate Republican members could be convinced to become Independents and to vote for Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker of the House. In that way, the right wing fringe that would like to destroy our government would lose some of their power.
Good evening Joyce on this early January 5th Eve remembering the bullies attempting to abolish all that “We the People” hold dear one year ago tomorrow, I find it difficult to express my sorrow that this could happen. And yet a certain number of current members in the House who voted not to certify Biden’s win and who are still holding court by the tail as they would like to think they are, seem determined to go beyond their failed coup last year and piece by piece tear the House down once and for all. So they must have been planning this. It is obvious I believe that Jeffries should be the new Speaker in the House. He was trained by the best, Nancy Pelosi, he is polished and ready to serve, the wrecking ball across the aisle. Perhaps good fortune will smile upon us once more. I am grateful you reached out to us today. Thank you once more 🇺🇸
Ruby and Shaye need to sue Trump for defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress (if it’s a tort in Georgia). Trump’s continued lies about these ladies, in light of the harm they’ve endured as a result of his lies, is cruel and unconscionable.
Re Ruby and Shaye, it’s bold cruelty the way they were treated and we must not stand for it.
Thank you Barbara; I have long been an advocate of ordinary folks pusuing severe emotional damages for the breach of ancient torts such as defamation, infliction of emotional distress both negigent & intentional particularly when the conduct is despicable.
I also agree with the aggressive pursuit of commercial defamation and gross commercial fraud by national Election-result fraudsters.
A number of these cases will be coming to trial in the months ahead. Damages can be paid or settled when the Perp has or is covered by a liability polic(ies). Other remedies available as well.
I'm in your age range and saw enough history. I was born when McCarthyism was at its peak (and "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance). In 3rd grade, we hid under my desk in case war broke out or we all went home. I voted for Reagan instead of Carter and have lived with guilt ever since I watched the slaughter while at work watching the U.S. turn red. I voted for Nader in NY because I knew NY was going to Gore.
Now, I feel like we're in free fall. Mary L. Trump couldn't figure out why former republicans were following her unc off a cliff. We know why now...
Cool! You're in NC. We were there when the gov. I called The Count (after the Sesame Street Count). Yay, too, I couldn't remember his name and had to look him up - it was McCrory. We moved from outside NYC to NC in 2010 and back north later.
Warning about local papers. The Rockland Gannett (Suffern area in NY) and most other small newspapers were bought by the super wealthy. Our Morning Call has very little about the candidates so information about them is not getting out there (on purpose). It's already shown to be messing up elections.
We now have a speaker (and that stays lower case). Yuck but Jeffries did pretty well for most boxing rounds.
Mary is great. Her writing can be magical and you can subscribe to her newsletter on substack. She allows us to see a little into her unc's head.
I am doing everything my body allows me to. I'm an old-er and apparently aging activist. I look at all the mileage I put on my feet and wondered if it was worth is since we're in trouble now. As HRC said if the (my words) republicans get control of this country, we won't recognize it in 5 years. I also believe if I hadn't been out there, this might've happened even sooner (the change in our country).
When the march was held the day after the Malignant Narcissist was pushed into office, we were out protesting in Asheville. I walked with the NC speaker of the house (a democrat) who said I wouldn't believe what the republicans are doing to the state legislature - they were doing everything in their evil little minds to shut down Cooper and stopping the democrats before Cooper (who had just been elected).
I hope so too. I think it goes beyond emotional distress and defamation -- imagine one of Trump's unhinged followers physically going after Freeman or Moss because they were inspired by Trump's lies.
Potential criminal claims by the DA as well as civil claims by Shaye & Ruby.
I kept waiting for the GOP slap down of Trump for bringing up Ruby Freeman in his vicious post but of course they were all bickering in the House and playing the 'Who gets the big gavel' at the table.
Apparently, Round 12 starts at noon Eastern xxxx Updated: Round 14 starts at 10 pm on a Friday night Eastern. CANNOT vote by proxy.
Thanks Joyce. I would like to understand the process (rational)/why we give prosecutors the power to not prosecute a case... it seems so ripe for corruption. I understand the part about there being enough evidence to convict. It's like in the case of Meadows, and many others over the years, that the decision seems suspect to us lay folks. Maybe you've covered this and I missed it. If so please point to when, so I can read. Happy New Year
This morning's Haiku:
Moon behind concave
Cloud lights a smile in black sky
A happy day comes
Time for Ruby to sue for defamation.
Ruby Freeman should sue tRump for billions of dollars, since he is an "alleged" billionaire.
There are many potential NAMED Defendants along with DOE Defendants ... say 1 through 999.
This doesn't take away at all from your point but JD Vance won OH.
I was going to mention that. Another Trump-backed loser was Doug Mastriano in the PA gubernatorial race.
Re Mastriano, we were very lucky there.
HURRAY!!!!! We had a backup plan. If the insurrectionist who makes desantis look sane running for gov. won, we got an estimate on our house and knew it would change but it was a start. We were going to get the heck outta Dodge.
Re the JD Vance win, that was a sad day.
What?
Can we have a Civil Discourse Action of the Week?
Here's what I'm thinking about (just some examples)
Week 1: Share an action plan (there are several out there: Indivisible has a 2023 guide, Susan Rogan has one... I'm sure there are others).
Week 2: Write your Congress Critter, whether you like him/her or not.
Week 3) Get on the mailing list for a Get out the Vote group.
Week 4) Share a DIY skill - texting, calling, postcard making, sign making, posting...
If we had an Action of the Week, it could be fun to report in as "done" or to share successes?
Chop Wood, Carry Water is a good example - in fact, she (Jessica Craven) always has quite a few actions of the day. Thoughtful and thought provoking.
Thanks Beth B! Exactly the kind of thing :)
Was in Indivisible in Asheville back when it was starting up. I left it when I learned about the budding love with putin and put my focus there. It's a great organization.
Perhaps through these awful times, we are teaching our kids that civilization itself can die without morality and conscience. Decency and fairness and good character are what distinguishes us from the vicious and wicked who beset every society at some time or another. Liberty and justice for all, is not just happy talk. They are the very oxygen supply of civilization.
Unfortunately JD Vance the Trump endorsed candidate won the Ohio senate seat against democrat Tim Ryan.
And yet, John Fetterman won in PA. He was sworn in last Tuesday.
https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania-senate-race/john-fetterman-sworn-in-as-pennsylvanias-newest-u-s-senator/
Here is his article published in Democracy Docket, "At the end of the day, I just tried to be the kind of guy that I would want to vote for."
https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/taking-every-county-every-vote-to-the-u-s-senate/?emci=26e18b62-448d-ed11-9d7b-00224832e811&emdi=4a5798b2-4c8d-ed11-9d7b-00224832e811&ceid=17269876
So sad about that but it was close.
Most races were close and while we were told it was a free and fair election, I sent my geek sis to find out how we could tell if votes were hacked. She majored in cyber security but I never did find out.
I asked a friend who is black and a veteran what she thought about Fetterman due to this:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/fettermans-gun-incident-rattles-black-democrats-pa-senate-race-rcna25649
She said she really likes him and she lived in Pittsburgh when he was living there. I was taken aback but I trust her. I was leery about it and voted for the tamer democrat in the primary but Conor Lamb probably would've lost to the dimwit oz.
You're absolutely correct, Joyce. The last thing a bully expects is for someone to strike back. They're inured to expect their victims to turn tail and run. The more we stand up to them, the less effective their bullying becomes.
I keep wondering…is there a reason why Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman can’t/shouldn’t file defamation charges against Trump? At this point he is a private citizen that continues to spread dangerous lies about them. What am I missing?
Not missing anything but, there are many case strategy issues to consider. Trump Org is now a Judgment Debtor in NY. tfg & coconspirators are being sliced & diced in many criminal & civil matters. Need Defendants & Codefendants who can pay Ruby & Shaye damages. I would not rule out a RICO action which requires an experienced Plaintiffs' Legal Team & offers triple damages. Recommend consulting with the Legal Team who obtained immense damages in the Sandy Hook Shootings smear of children & parents by a Major Troll.
I hope they're reading or have someone to advise them.
Ruby & Shaye have this Community & many others.
This is a good suggestion. Following in the footsteps of the Sandy Hook victims who went after Alex Jones in a defamation suit.
An attorney client (confidential) consultation over facetime or a protected App of law firm would be best. I would check in with local ACLU office who knows how to.pierce any defenses.
I agree with everything you have to say Professor Vance. Other than voting at 18 when I naively voted out of pure idealism, all my voting has been strategic and considering not only appointments to the Supreme Courts, but the Federal Courts who typically decide more cases, as well as health, education and environment have been priorities. Now foreign policy matters a lot too. I know for a lot of Americans the issues are economy and crime, but I see those two issues as following from the other issues. We need judges that represent our nation and are qualified to do their jobs. They should be politically impartial, but that is not the case in our activist Supreme Court. I had colleagues in my last job who increasingly were Millennials that did not vote, or read books. They were into YouTube videos, comics, and working out. They have had no experience of government that is actually for the people instead of for corporations and as long as they make enough money to accomplish what they want, which is to buy a home, send their children to "good" schools, pay for their endless after school lessons, buy "organic" foods, with some occasional travel on vacations, they do not expect much. I have been working on getting them to vote, but have not been successful so far. It seems that as long as they feel that they are doing well enough no matter who wins, and since their children are little, they do not seem to see anything as affecting them. It is just shocking to me. Since they teach in an elite private school that gives them a huge break on tuition, they don't start thinking about the cost of education in the USA until their children get to be college age, which for the ones I am talking about is a long way off.--Our daughter is a senior and is not applying to USA universities. She will go where tuition is free and where it is safer. She is fluent in German and Austria ranks 5 for safety, Germany ranks 16. The USA is at 129. If you scroll down this chart in the link below you will see that there are something like 28 or 29 African countries deemed safer than the USA.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world
My daughter's friends who are staying here are avoiding states that have prohibitions on abortion. A few are staying in Illinois or going to the East and West Coasts. As for Congress, the best course of action would be if 6 moderate Republican members could be convinced to become Independents and to vote for Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker of the House. In that way, the right wing fringe that would like to destroy our government would lose some of their power.
Indeed, the work isn't done; the lifecycle of a MAGAt is pretty short...we may have beat them in '22, but they are back out there, reproducing.
thx for the laugh! And thanks for all your hard work. Between teaching, writing, and your tv appearances I don't know how you find time to knit!
Good evening Joyce on this early January 5th Eve remembering the bullies attempting to abolish all that “We the People” hold dear one year ago tomorrow, I find it difficult to express my sorrow that this could happen. And yet a certain number of current members in the House who voted not to certify Biden’s win and who are still holding court by the tail as they would like to think they are, seem determined to go beyond their failed coup last year and piece by piece tear the House down once and for all. So they must have been planning this. It is obvious I believe that Jeffries should be the new Speaker in the House. He was trained by the best, Nancy Pelosi, he is polished and ready to serve, the wrecking ball across the aisle. Perhaps good fortune will smile upon us once more. I am grateful you reached out to us today. Thank you once more 🇺🇸
Thank you for reminding us to be ever vigilant. Our democracy is too precious to lose.
🐼❤️
Wholeheartedly agree, Joyce. Thanks so much!
Is there standing for the ACLU to begin a defamation case against Trump in defense of Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss?