Thursday morning, the Supreme Court issued decisions in four cases, none of them involving Donald Trump. Nor were any of the other high profile cases we’ve been following on the docket this morning. That means cases about the power of administrative agencies, whether it’s constitutional to make it a crime for someone under a domestic protection order to possess a firearm, and whether hospitals are obligated to stabilize patients in emergency situations, including by providing an abortion where appropriate, are still on the docket.
As an Episcopal priest, I stand firmly against this blending of church and state. And, I hope that it can be made clear that this is NOT a Christian text - this is from scripture revered by Jews, Muslims, and followers of Jesus. Finally - if they want to display the law, how about a copy of the US Constitution? Maybe they should actually read it.
There is far less a religion behind this nonsense, than an ideology with the superficial trappings of one. At best, it is a conditional faith with a conveniently malleable or pliable deity. Thou may not but I shall.
I recently heard a phrase about religion that sorta made sense (I’m Unitarian raised and now agnostic). The saying goes “Follow the teachings not he trappings”.
Ironically, Christian Nationalists much prefer the Old Testament, because of all of its smiting of your enemies. They are big on the smiting part. Or, as Donald Trump might put it, the "retribution" part.
They avoid quoting the New Testament, especially Jesus's words about love & forgiveness & the parable of the Good Samaritan, which was a story about being kind to those who are not in your same tribe or social group.
Not much " Christian" in the Christian Nationalists.
Also, whenever I hear a reference to the Ten Commandments, I immediately think of the bit Mel Brooks did about them in "History of the World Part 1" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I48hr8HhDv0>.
The fact that the Ten Commandments appear in the pre-Christian Old Testament -- that the commandments "[are] NOT a Christian text" but "from scripture revered by Jews, Muslims, and followers of Jesus" -- reinforces the notion that requiring their exhibition violates the Establishment Clause, which prohibits any "law respecting an establishment of religion" <https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/>. Mandating the exhibition of a text "revered" by adherents of multiple religions, not just one religion, also multiplies the scale of the violation. As someone who would be classified as (in the words of a good friend who's a pastor) "unchurched" (though I prefer the term "dechurched"), I don't pray that the Court tosses the Louisiana statute when it arrives, but I sure hope the Court does so. So far, the Court has essentially written Section 3 of the 14th Amendment out of the Constitution. Let's hope (or pray, if that's your First Amendment-protected preference) that the Court doesn't write the Establishment Clause out as well.
I find your take on the 10 Commandments interesting. I see it as being more inclusive, than say the Beatitudes, rather than multiplying the scale of violation. Although I think I understand what you are saying there. I'm with you on being "de-churched". In my experience, churches tend to make those who don't go along with whatever they do, unwelcome.
Why is it in America that the Episcopalian faith appears to be the only Christian denomination that still has a grip on reality? I see it over and over. The others - most or all of them - have decided White Christian Trumpist Nationalism is their ticket to heaven.
In my area of Central NJ there are several Presbyterian, as well as Unitarian-Universalist and Quaker/Friends churches (meetings) that are very involved in social justice.
When I was a child in the fifties, we were required to sing Christmas carols in school. I am Jewish and it always rankled me to have to sing about Jesus Christ--so much so that it still bothers me almost 70 years later. So it's not surprising that the thought of having someone else's religion shoved down my throat makes me want to fight. The people who behave this way have no idea what it feels like to be told how to believe. It's beyond repugnant. What nerve! I hope the Court does the right thing when they get the case, although I fear they won't.
I agree with you, except I went to Catholic school. I still resent all the things I was taught that have NO basis in fact. No wonder so many believe Trump when they have been indoctrinated to believe in virgin birth and rising from the dead.
My husband and I were children in the 40s and 50s. We were both unhappy when the words ‘under god’ were added to the pledge of allegiance to or country. To this day we will recite the pledge along with everyone else, but neither of us will say those two words during it.
As for adding ‘in god we trust’ to our money; not everyone thinks there’s a magic man in the sky and that’s just a fact. Some folks just accept that we’re gonna die and don’t get all freaked out about it.
A friend of mine who was a child in the 50's complained that people today were objecting to the inclusion of "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. He was surprised when I told him that phrase was never in the original pledge. I imagine most people now just assume it was always in there.
According to the article whose link is below, the inclusion of "under God" into the pledge of allegiance was pushed by a Catholic group (the Knights of Columbus) and a Catholic member of the U.S. House of Representatives. President Eisenhower was influenced to include the words after attending a sermon in D.C. by a Presbyterian minister who also pushed the idea. Eisenhower signed a bill adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance, making it a law in1954.
Interestingly, the minister said the objection of atheists was irrelevant arguing that an “atheistic American is a contradiction in terms,” because if “you deny the Christian ethic, you fall short of the American ideal of life.”
Seems like Eisenhower, an American president, and the Presbyterian minister who preached in Washington D.C., were not acquainted with the founders' idea of the separation of church and state, nor freedom in America to worship any religion or no religion at all.
Some of us thought those were bedrock principles woven into the founding of our United States.
I was a child in the 40s & 50s, and I remember very well when "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance, as does my husband. I also remember my parents objecting forcefully to that addition. I really like the idea of leaving out that part of the pledge, and will do so from now on.
I have previously and often commented on these very same thoughts! Basically it goes against the constitution no matter how you spin it. I also take exception to the National Prayer breakfast and the need for a “blessing” that invokes god prior to gatherings. It irritates me to have to listen to someone just blabber on with religious invocations when most of the time it is just a meaningless display. To ask for grace, be thankful and seek kindness should be enough.
I wasn't happy about that either . A friend and I used to quietly say "I pledge allegiance to the clock of the United States of the school." This was around fourth grade, I think.
It's unlikely there was any real malignant intent in forcing you to sing Christmas carols; and yet you still felt excluded. This time there is no doubt that this is a deliberate attempt to make non-Christians feel unwelcome. It's not just that they don't understand what it's like to be told how to believe. It's that, despite all their whining about religious persecution, they know that they never will be.
It will be really interesting to see how the Court handles this. While a majority of Justices might sympathize with Louisiana, this might be too blatant a violation of the Constitution to be allowed to stand. If they take the case, I expect some sort of non-ruling that forces Louisiana to back off without establishing a real precedent.
It does not need a malignant intent to hit with a totally ignorant, evil, harmful ... (fill in as many blanks as you care to here) impact. Nowadays we've invented the brilliant word "microaggressions" for words and actions enforced without rising to malignance level.
I think it starts to fill in the missing vocabulary needing to be created to better know how insulting when an uncaring majority group disrespects anyone else.
Of course. I didn't intend to minimize the harm of careless indifference. I wanted to stress that this time is different because we are faced with a deliberate attempt to enforce Christian dominance.
I went to public school and in grammar school, praying in school was common place. ( New Jersey) who knew? After all we were fighting those godless communists. Also practicing duck and cover under our desk in case of newkewlar attack. Ah, the good old days are coming back!
When I was a child in the fifties, we were required to recite the Xian prayer daily each morning. Including the 1/3 of the school that was Jewish. and the 1/500th (?) of the student body that was me. In each classroom a different student was to lead the homeroom in the prayer. Some of the Jewish kids seemed to be growing an ulcer. I know I was.
This was south of the Mason-Dixon Line, but it wasn't the Deep South. It was Montgomery County, Maryland, directly north of Washington, DC.
As to fighting, I am at the moment thinking of increasing our stake in Freedom from Religion Foundation, which has announced it's going to make the LA governor happy and sue him.
So was I, Paula, a child in the 50’s. I was part of an all-female singing group called the Musicalettes. Ages went from 1st-12th grade. Every year, we performed the Singing Christmas Tree. Now mind you, this is rural NC and my folks were Holocaust victims. They weren’t too thrilled (my dad, especially) with me participating in this but I wanted to be in it. I was a 3rd grader in this particular performance and was assigned to be one of the Three Wise Men. They never ever introduced anyone to Judaism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Islamic practices, of course. My mom always sat in the front row and waved to me which embarrassed me. I realized that there were points at which my parents had to assimilate to be taken seriously as business owners. But the minute I turned 18, I high-tailed it to Washington, DC, never going back to NC to live.
That must have been really hard for your parents. I don't blame you for leaving.
When I was in Sunday school at temple, we studied comparative religion. It's the only place that happened. Weird. I don't know if any public schools offer that now but they certainly didn't then.
Sorry, just a joke about your positive thought that public schools teach anything that significant. Also a nod to the fact that a lot of Americans read at a sixth grade level.
I agree with you, but I wasn't Jewish. The Catholic kids were taken off campus for catechism and the nuns made sure that all those kids had a basket of candy to show off when they were returned to the school. I was envious.
Catholic students in elementary school in the 50s (in RI) were excused early on Thursdays so they could attend Catechism. My church was several blocks away. I never got candy so I don't know what that was about. Catholics at my husband's RI school were allowed to leave school to have fish and chips across the street on Fridays. He was given parental permission to do this even though his mother was very 'anti-Roman'.
That strikes me as very strange but what do I know? We used to take the whole day off for the high holidays (I hated that! I felt so singled out), but I'm unaware of anything like what you're describing. Could be because of where I lived (West Los Angeles, which has always been a liberal area).
A Pew survey of Rhode Island residents' religious self-identification in 2014 showed the following distribution of affiliations: Catholic 42%, Protestant 30%, Jewish 1%, Jehovah's Witnesses 2%, Buddhism 1%, Mormonism 1%, Hinduism 1%, and Non-religious 20%.
Rhode Island has had the highest proportion of Catholic residents of any state according to a study in 2000, mainly due to large Irish, Italian, and French-Canadian immigration in the past; recently, significant Portuguese and various Hispanic or Latino communities have also been established in the state. It has the highest overall Catholic percentage of any state.
Rhode Island's Jewish community, centered in the Providence area, emerged during a wave of Jewish immigration predominantly from Eastern Europeans shtetls between 1880 and 1920. The presence of the
RI is very Catholic with a large population of Italians, Portuguese, Irish, French and Hispanics which tend to be Catholic. It also has a large Jewish population. Touro Synagogue in Newport is the oldest existing synagogue building in the United States.
I was a child of the 60’s. My Dad was baptized and as a child raised catholic, my Mom was raised Presbyterian and chose to be baptized as a teenager. The fellowship I most recall attending with my parents was a Unitarian one held at a local YMCA. I also often attended Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, and Jewish services with my various friends’ and neighbors’ families. At age 16 my parents encouraged me to follow the practice that suited me best. To me that is what every child deserves.
I, too, was a Jewish child forced to participate in singing Christmas carols every December in mandatory music class. One year, I asked to be excused from the singing and was assigned to write a research paper instead. So, there I sat, in a lonely classroom, researching and writing a paper, while my friends were singing Silent Night and Good King Wenceslaus. The following year, I was back singing with everyone else.
Saying Cannon's rulings and behavior are due to inexperience has always been the gracious but disingenuous way of not saying the quiet part out loud. It has been crystal clear from the beginning that she's in Trump's slimy little pocket.
And her $600,000 personal residence mortgage in Vero Beach, FL was released in Sept 2020, two months prior to her appointment as Federal Judge in Nov 2020.
There’s nobody surprised there’s money floating around to sway their prey the ‘right’ way , and not a damn thing we can do about that …except ……VOTE BLUE !!!!STOP THE COUP💙
I searched and only found this from LA Progressive. No, I did not look at the writer's astrological analysis of Cannon. The writer makes a strong argument for certainty she would be appointed to the district court. https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-justice/aileen-cannon
Cannon's horoscope is in the LA P articles? I scrolled through and didn't see it. I'm a (very) retired astrologer and would be interested in seeing it...and sharing it.
I was a school superintendent for 25 years (not in Louisiana). I have been retired from that position for nearly 25 years. I give thought if I were faced with this legal requirement. I might have prepared three district versions of the Ten Commandments -- a Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish one (since they differ) and give teachers the choice of which to post. I might revise the statement claiming
the Ten Commandments have been a prominent part of American education for almost three centuries so that, without violating the statute, a phrase that explains that (some make that claim about the Ten Commandments. I might add additional placards to be posted in classrooms -- the same size and formality: the five pillars of Islam, something drawn from the Hinduism, something drawn from Buddhism, and finally Thomas Jefferson's Ten Commandments:
1. Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.
2. Never trouble another for what you can do yourself.
3. Never spend your money before you have earned it.
4. Never buy what you do not want because it is cheap.
5. Pride costs more than hunger, thirst, and cold.
6. We seldom repent of having eaten too little.
7. Nothing is troublesome that we do willingly.
8. How much pain evils have cost us that have never happened!
9. Take things always by their smooth handle.
10. When angry, count to ten before you speak - if very angry, count a hundred.
I remember in grade school saying the Pledge of Allegiance having different older teachers who refused to hear “one nation, under God” from their class. Those “religious” words, added by Eisenhower, were offensive to the separation of church and state.
Judy Davis, I learned the Pledge of Allegiance before “…under God” was in it. To this day I do not say it. While in high school, someone from the National Honor Society had to read something from the Bible over the loudspeaker when school started. I volunteered because I learned many “non-denominational”sections and recited them. By the way, I was then and am now a Unitarian/secular humanist.
Agree, religion belongs in churches which are privately owned and supported. Schools are publicly owned and supported. Displaying the Declaration of Independence would be acceptable, keeping a copy of the Constitution of the United States would be acceptable.
But when I taught secondary school in California, we were required to swear the oath of allegiance. I refused to repeat the phrase "under god" added in the 1950's.
Rusty - You say there are 6000 religions so why not POST ALL OF THEM with what would parallel the 10 Commandments. Practically everyone is then included ... Thus TRANSPARENCY !
Hopefully Alito and Thomas will be away from the court before the Louisiana case makes it. Either by Biden getting reelected or Congress impeachment of them.
We all knew Cannon was on the take. Why else would he have approved her especially when her hubby worked on his campaign. Blame Rick Scott and Marco Rubio because they wouldn’t fill that vacancy when Obama was in office and they didn’t like the other judges that were on the list. This is why it’s important that Florida residents don’t put Mr. Medicare fraud Scott back in office! I’m encouraging everyone to support Debbie Mucarsel Powell by doing postcards and texting. Hopefully Jack can finally go to the 11th appeals court.
Having Rick Scott anywhere close to decision making on government spending, especially Medicare and Social Security is extraordinarily dumb and unwise.
I have no choice. As an ex-pat, I vote where I was last registered in the US, which is Florida. Shout out to Seminole County Supervisor of Elections, Chris Anderson, the one R I have 0 problem voting for. His office has been great to work with re. voting from overseas.
There’s some really good supervisor of elections that’s republicans in Florida. Flagler county has a good one and I had no problem with my mail in ballot or dropping it in the Drop box.
Professor, there were over 7000 folks on SCOTUSblog this morning when the 4 cases dropped. Your analysis of the 3 Opinions & 1 per Curiam order by the Chief Judge ... was the best.
Heads Up: I posted on Civil Discourse before that on 1/26/24 BLOOMBERG LAW's, Lydia Wheeler exposed the groups & individuals that brought the Mifepristone case. Lydia writes that 2 other SCOTUS case this term like MURFY v, MISSOURI, are manufactured by a related Trust, Corporate entities such as 'NCLA' & individuals.
Deeper research indicates the Mifepristone case was funded by "Donor's Trust", supported by individuals such as Leonard Leo, a 501(c)(4) identified as "Marble 'Freedom' [no] Trust & others.
********************************
Friday, June 21 - 'Looking Ahead' to Murthy vs Missouri opinion coming soon.
Murfthy vs Missouri is another NCLA generated case, 23-411, that was argued on 3/18/24 - 96 Days ago. The case is about attacking social media platforms from stoping mis & disinformation
"or otherwise even meeting with social media" to discuss "content moderation".
These issues some Readers may recall, I have posted about many times here on Substack both at Civil Discourse & on LFAA authored by our remarkable Professors, Joyce & Heather.
On point Jeff .🎯 I am regular reader of The Guardian US Edition but, I had not seen or read MOIRA DONEGAN's 6/21/24 penetrating article. .
Moira, if you are out there, that was accurate, fact-filled context into the Plaintiffs, the Moores, & theire non-payment of fair taxes on overseas operation which is in fact "INCOME" under U.S. Tax Law.
The posting from Paula B. gave me the courage to write about my own experiences as a Jewish child in the Philadelphia public school system. Yes, I too had to sing Christmas carols, but I just mouthed the truly upsetting words.
However, in elementary school we also had to listen to a Bible reading every morning. In a reading from the New Testament one day, I heard "Pray not like the hypocrites in the Synagogue." That truly shook me and made me anxious fearing what I might hear in any future readings - and that was over 78 years ago!
Im sorry. Children are so vulnerable and to me, who rejected the "lord" at 8 after hearing the story of Lot (and was thrown out of Sunday school in my small Kansas Methodist whorehouse), I felt outraged and hurt even then.
It would be very interesting to review Cannon's emails, phone logs and any other communication she has received or been part of during the last 10 months. While we will never see them, it is an interesting question - Has she been communicating with Trump and/or his minions?
Always felt that Judge Cannon was being coached by not just one person but by several with the same endgame. Thanks for all you do Joyce to make things clearer for all of us on the subject of the law and its current abuse.
Love the conditional piety of the Louisiana legislature and governor, along with the usual conditional originalism about the intent of the Founders. No wonder polling shows the young leaving organized religion in droves. The fact is, a number of the Founders, including Madison the "lead architect" of the Constitution, were Deists, valuing reason over religious dogma. This was an important influence on the religion clauses of the First Amendment --- ensuring (the Founders' hoped) the free exercise of all religions and the establishment of none as the preferred one. Want to provide secular educational value, add similar or related tenets from the Koran, Tripitaka and the Vedas alongside the Ten Commandments. A nice little grouping of examples of the world's religions. But then again, educational value is not the point, is it? And so it continues, this Crusade in modern dress. You have the absolute right to believe. You also have the absolute right not to believe or have the beliefs of others imposed on you. So far...
I was living in the Bremerton area when Kennedy did his prayer thing. No one was happy. I was in attendance at those games. At the end of the season he was fired. His contract was year to year so he could be fired without cause. It would have all died down if groups outside of WA state didn’t get involved. It cost the school district so much money. Money that should have been spent on education. It made Kitsap County residents very angry with very few happy with the results.
There is a suspicion here that Loose Cannon is not over her head, incompetent or inexperienced but rather she has been coached by an outsider to muck up the case to either further delay it or get it thrown out all together. There is something rotten going on. She was a high honors student as she attended the university, she is not stupid. An investigation is called for here or a review by a higher court is needed and her eventual removal is becoming more and more likely. How can the DOJ allow this farce to continue. And where the hell is our Attorney General? What an embarrassment he is.
As an Episcopal priest, I stand firmly against this blending of church and state. And, I hope that it can be made clear that this is NOT a Christian text - this is from scripture revered by Jews, Muslims, and followers of Jesus. Finally - if they want to display the law, how about a copy of the US Constitution? Maybe they should actually read it.
There is far less a religion behind this nonsense, than an ideology with the superficial trappings of one. At best, it is a conditional faith with a conveniently malleable or pliable deity. Thou may not but I shall.
And it’s cheap virtue signaling from a party that has neither virtue nor shame.
Amen!
Putting the Ten Commandments on a classroom wall is a nice way for teachers and students to remember that tffg broke all 10 Commandments, bigly.
I recently heard a phrase about religion that sorta made sense (I’m Unitarian raised and now agnostic). The saying goes “Follow the teachings not he trappings”.
The continuing saga of the christian Taliban
Or even a copy of The Beattitudes next to the 10 Cs.
Wouldn't that be a hoot?
The Beatitudes are Christian; the Ten Commandments from the Old Testament.
Yet with which do these Christian Nationalists want to indoctrinate the children!!
Ironically, Christian Nationalists much prefer the Old Testament, because of all of its smiting of your enemies. They are big on the smiting part. Or, as Donald Trump might put it, the "retribution" part.
They avoid quoting the New Testament, especially Jesus's words about love & forgiveness & the parable of the Good Samaritan, which was a story about being kind to those who are not in your same tribe or social group.
Not much " Christian" in the Christian Nationalists.
I would like to point out that two of Jesus' most famous quote were fist found in the Old Testament. One is from Hillel and the other from Isaiah.
Much more appropriate. If you want to pretend you're a Christian.
Also, whenever I hear a reference to the Ten Commandments, I immediately think of the bit Mel Brooks did about them in "History of the World Part 1" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I48hr8HhDv0>.
That's always been a favorite scene for us! "15, no 10 commandments!" 😅🤣
Fantastic. Not sure I ever saw that one.
Thank you Reverend Wilcox!
The fact that the Ten Commandments appear in the pre-Christian Old Testament -- that the commandments "[are] NOT a Christian text" but "from scripture revered by Jews, Muslims, and followers of Jesus" -- reinforces the notion that requiring their exhibition violates the Establishment Clause, which prohibits any "law respecting an establishment of religion" <https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/>. Mandating the exhibition of a text "revered" by adherents of multiple religions, not just one religion, also multiplies the scale of the violation. As someone who would be classified as (in the words of a good friend who's a pastor) "unchurched" (though I prefer the term "dechurched"), I don't pray that the Court tosses the Louisiana statute when it arrives, but I sure hope the Court does so. So far, the Court has essentially written Section 3 of the 14th Amendment out of the Constitution. Let's hope (or pray, if that's your First Amendment-protected preference) that the Court doesn't write the Establishment Clause out as well.
I really like the statement "we're both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do".
I find your take on the 10 Commandments interesting. I see it as being more inclusive, than say the Beatitudes, rather than multiplying the scale of violation. Although I think I understand what you are saying there. I'm with you on being "de-churched". In my experience, churches tend to make those who don't go along with whatever they do, unwelcome.
So true
Why is it in America that the Episcopalian faith appears to be the only Christian denomination that still has a grip on reality? I see it over and over. The others - most or all of them - have decided White Christian Trumpist Nationalism is their ticket to heaven.
In my area of Central NJ there are several Presbyterian, as well as Unitarian-Universalist and Quaker/Friends churches (meetings) that are very involved in social justice.
Mega church/mega money/no taxes
I was just planning on mentioning that!
Yes!
When I was a child in the fifties, we were required to sing Christmas carols in school. I am Jewish and it always rankled me to have to sing about Jesus Christ--so much so that it still bothers me almost 70 years later. So it's not surprising that the thought of having someone else's religion shoved down my throat makes me want to fight. The people who behave this way have no idea what it feels like to be told how to believe. It's beyond repugnant. What nerve! I hope the Court does the right thing when they get the case, although I fear they won't.
Sent from my iPhone
I agree with you, except I went to Catholic school. I still resent all the things I was taught that have NO basis in fact. No wonder so many believe Trump when they have been indoctrinated to believe in virgin birth and rising from the dead.
I put it in the same category as Santa Claus. Wish we let children age out of that belief too.
My husband and I were children in the 40s and 50s. We were both unhappy when the words ‘under god’ were added to the pledge of allegiance to or country. To this day we will recite the pledge along with everyone else, but neither of us will say those two words during it.
As for adding ‘in god we trust’ to our money; not everyone thinks there’s a magic man in the sky and that’s just a fact. Some folks just accept that we’re gonna die and don’t get all freaked out about it.
A friend of mine who was a child in the 50's complained that people today were objecting to the inclusion of "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. He was surprised when I told him that phrase was never in the original pledge. I imagine most people now just assume it was always in there.
According to the article whose link is below, the inclusion of "under God" into the pledge of allegiance was pushed by a Catholic group (the Knights of Columbus) and a Catholic member of the U.S. House of Representatives. President Eisenhower was influenced to include the words after attending a sermon in D.C. by a Presbyterian minister who also pushed the idea. Eisenhower signed a bill adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance, making it a law in1954.
Interestingly, the minister said the objection of atheists was irrelevant arguing that an “atheistic American is a contradiction in terms,” because if “you deny the Christian ethic, you fall short of the American ideal of life.”
Seems like Eisenhower, an American president, and the Presbyterian minister who preached in Washington D.C., were not acquainted with the founders' idea of the separation of church and state, nor freedom in America to worship any religion or no religion at all.
Some of us thought those were bedrock principles woven into the founding of our United States.
https://www.history.com/news/pledge-allegiance-under-god-schools
I was a child in the 40s & 50s, and I remember very well when "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance, as does my husband. I also remember my parents objecting forcefully to that addition. I really like the idea of leaving out that part of the pledge, and will do so from now on.
It was a push back on communism. Cold war stuff.
I have previously and often commented on these very same thoughts! Basically it goes against the constitution no matter how you spin it. I also take exception to the National Prayer breakfast and the need for a “blessing” that invokes god prior to gatherings. It irritates me to have to listen to someone just blabber on with religious invocations when most of the time it is just a meaningless display. To ask for grace, be thankful and seek kindness should be enough.
Agreed!
Same experience in High school, still won't say that part of the pledge.
My mother was irked by that too.
I wasn't happy about that either . A friend and I used to quietly say "I pledge allegiance to the clock of the United States of the school." This was around fourth grade, I think.
Made me laugh! 🤣
Agree!
It's unlikely there was any real malignant intent in forcing you to sing Christmas carols; and yet you still felt excluded. This time there is no doubt that this is a deliberate attempt to make non-Christians feel unwelcome. It's not just that they don't understand what it's like to be told how to believe. It's that, despite all their whining about religious persecution, they know that they never will be.
It will be really interesting to see how the Court handles this. While a majority of Justices might sympathize with Louisiana, this might be too blatant a violation of the Constitution to be allowed to stand. If they take the case, I expect some sort of non-ruling that forces Louisiana to back off without establishing a real precedent.
It does not need a malignant intent to hit with a totally ignorant, evil, harmful ... (fill in as many blanks as you care to here) impact. Nowadays we've invented the brilliant word "microaggressions" for words and actions enforced without rising to malignance level.
I think it starts to fill in the missing vocabulary needing to be created to better know how insulting when an uncaring majority group disrespects anyone else.
Of course. I didn't intend to minimize the harm of careless indifference. I wanted to stress that this time is different because we are faced with a deliberate attempt to enforce Christian dominance.
I went to public school and in grammar school, praying in school was common place. ( New Jersey) who knew? After all we were fighting those godless communists. Also practicing duck and cover under our desk in case of newkewlar attack. Ah, the good old days are coming back!
And it seems no Americans ever learned the once oft-cited Santayana warning. Why learn history when you can invent it, like Toxic Orange Man?
Me, too. Every day started with The Lord’s Prayer & The Pledge of Allegiance. In fact I first learned the pledge before « under God » was added.
I think we went to school at the same time 🥴
I said the Lord's Prayer in Hebrew and was promptly suspended.
I love this. That was really clever. I'm sorry you were suspended but I still think you got the last laugh.
When I was a child in the fifties, we were required to recite the Xian prayer daily each morning. Including the 1/3 of the school that was Jewish. and the 1/500th (?) of the student body that was me. In each classroom a different student was to lead the homeroom in the prayer. Some of the Jewish kids seemed to be growing an ulcer. I know I was.
This was south of the Mason-Dixon Line, but it wasn't the Deep South. It was Montgomery County, Maryland, directly north of Washington, DC.
As to fighting, I am at the moment thinking of increasing our stake in Freedom from Religion Foundation, which has announced it's going to make the LA governor happy and sue him.
So was I, Paula, a child in the 50’s. I was part of an all-female singing group called the Musicalettes. Ages went from 1st-12th grade. Every year, we performed the Singing Christmas Tree. Now mind you, this is rural NC and my folks were Holocaust victims. They weren’t too thrilled (my dad, especially) with me participating in this but I wanted to be in it. I was a 3rd grader in this particular performance and was assigned to be one of the Three Wise Men. They never ever introduced anyone to Judaism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Islamic practices, of course. My mom always sat in the front row and waved to me which embarrassed me. I realized that there were points at which my parents had to assimilate to be taken seriously as business owners. But the minute I turned 18, I high-tailed it to Washington, DC, never going back to NC to live.
That must have been really hard for your parents. I don't blame you for leaving.
When I was in Sunday school at temple, we studied comparative religion. It's the only place that happened. Weird. I don't know if any public schools offer that now but they certainly didn't then.
Are you crazy...they don't even offer reading !
What are you talking about?
Sorry, just a joke about your positive thought that public schools teach anything that significant. Also a nod to the fact that a lot of Americans read at a sixth grade level.
Ah, okay. I thought you were serious.
They don't care how others feel... They think they're on a mission from God...
Although to be fair, many are just trying to score political points... That's their mission...
Politics and Religion should never be mixed...
I agree with you, but I wasn't Jewish. The Catholic kids were taken off campus for catechism and the nuns made sure that all those kids had a basket of candy to show off when they were returned to the school. I was envious.
I don't think I understand this. The Protestant kids stayed at school and got nothing but the Catholics went off and got candy?
Catholic students in elementary school in the 50s (in RI) were excused early on Thursdays so they could attend Catechism. My church was several blocks away. I never got candy so I don't know what that was about. Catholics at my husband's RI school were allowed to leave school to have fish and chips across the street on Fridays. He was given parental permission to do this even though his mother was very 'anti-Roman'.
That strikes me as very strange but what do I know? We used to take the whole day off for the high holidays (I hated that! I felt so singled out), but I'm unaware of anything like what you're describing. Could be because of where I lived (West Los Angeles, which has always been a liberal area).
A Pew survey of Rhode Island residents' religious self-identification in 2014 showed the following distribution of affiliations: Catholic 42%, Protestant 30%, Jewish 1%, Jehovah's Witnesses 2%, Buddhism 1%, Mormonism 1%, Hinduism 1%, and Non-religious 20%.
Rhode Island has had the highest proportion of Catholic residents of any state according to a study in 2000, mainly due to large Irish, Italian, and French-Canadian immigration in the past; recently, significant Portuguese and various Hispanic or Latino communities have also been established in the state. It has the highest overall Catholic percentage of any state.
Rhode Island's Jewish community, centered in the Providence area, emerged during a wave of Jewish immigration predominantly from Eastern Europeans shtetls between 1880 and 1920. The presence of the
I suppose that explains it then.
RI is very Catholic with a large population of Italians, Portuguese, Irish, French and Hispanics which tend to be Catholic. It also has a large Jewish population. Touro Synagogue in Newport is the oldest existing synagogue building in the United States.
Radical Agnostic: I don't know and you don't either
I have this on a bumper sticker but I'm in a red part of Colorado ( where Boebert thinks she'll win) and don't dare put it on a car.
Yeah, probably wise not to display it. I hope she loses badly though. She's horrible.
I was a child of the 60’s. My Dad was baptized and as a child raised catholic, my Mom was raised Presbyterian and chose to be baptized as a teenager. The fellowship I most recall attending with my parents was a Unitarian one held at a local YMCA. I also often attended Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, and Jewish services with my various friends’ and neighbors’ families. At age 16 my parents encouraged me to follow the practice that suited me best. To me that is what every child deserves.
And that weird sentence in the Pledge of Allegiance, which 'pledge' itself is weird: "One nation, under god." Whose imaginary guy is that?
We all had to stand there like good little worker-war-fodder animatrons and recite that thing every morning.
That's what the MAGAs dream about. A nation of thoughtless bio-robots to boss around, echoing their mythological dogma.
I, too, was a Jewish child forced to participate in singing Christmas carols every December in mandatory music class. One year, I asked to be excused from the singing and was assigned to write a research paper instead. So, there I sat, in a lonely classroom, researching and writing a paper, while my friends were singing Silent Night and Good King Wenceslaus. The following year, I was back singing with everyone else.
Anti-semitism FTW!
That's terrible! I certainly hope this kind of thing doesn't still happen.
Same experience as a child and also when a teacher in 1970's when the entire Christmas pageant was enacted in a school assemble every year!
Ugh. I don't think I could have handled that. No disrespect to Christians but the rest of us shouldn't have to participate if we don't want to.
Then I’ll be posting the 4 noble truths and the noble eight fold path in my classroom.
And we will practice meditation and yoga everyday. 🙏🏻
Here's a comic from 2014 which seems appropriate.
https://ki6mnk.substack.com/p/for-louisiana
You’re going to drive some of those “Christians” crazy with your “Eastern” religious practices! DO IT! 😉
I think that would be more useful!
👌❤️
With respect to you if not to the LA govt, please see my cmt 4 hours later than yours.
Saying Cannon's rulings and behavior are due to inexperience has always been the gracious but disingenuous way of not saying the quiet part out loud. It has been crystal clear from the beginning that she's in Trump's slimy little pocket.
And her $600,000 personal residence mortgage in Vero Beach, FL was released in Sept 2020, two months prior to her appointment as Federal Judge in Nov 2020.
Well, well, well. That’s news to me. Shades of Kegs Kavanaugh. There seems to be a lot of money floating around in these jurist’s background 💸💸💸.
There’s nobody surprised there’s money floating around to sway their prey the ‘right’ way , and not a damn thing we can do about that …except ……VOTE BLUE !!!!STOP THE COUP💙
Well, well! I'm shocked that there's bribery going on here! SHOCKED!!😆😆
“Kegs”!!!!!! Smile of the day
Really? Wow. Do you have a source on that? I’d like to share the info.
I searched and only found this from LA Progressive. No, I did not look at the writer's astrological analysis of Cannon. The writer makes a strong argument for certainty she would be appointed to the district court. https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-justice/aileen-cannon
Certainly the bank who made the mortgage on that home should have documents stating her income or how it was justified.
Cannon's horoscope is in the LA P articles? I scrolled through and didn't see it. I'm a (very) retired astrologer and would be interested in seeing it...and sharing it.
There's a link at the beginning of the article in red. It's quite interesting, although the time of her birth is unknown in the article.
Thank you, Katherine. As I suspected.
So would I.
Roger Stone lives just out that way. He's a scuzzball enough to be pulling her strings.
I was a school superintendent for 25 years (not in Louisiana). I have been retired from that position for nearly 25 years. I give thought if I were faced with this legal requirement. I might have prepared three district versions of the Ten Commandments -- a Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish one (since they differ) and give teachers the choice of which to post. I might revise the statement claiming
the Ten Commandments have been a prominent part of American education for almost three centuries so that, without violating the statute, a phrase that explains that (some make that claim about the Ten Commandments. I might add additional placards to be posted in classrooms -- the same size and formality: the five pillars of Islam, something drawn from the Hinduism, something drawn from Buddhism, and finally Thomas Jefferson's Ten Commandments:
1. Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.
2. Never trouble another for what you can do yourself.
3. Never spend your money before you have earned it.
4. Never buy what you do not want because it is cheap.
5. Pride costs more than hunger, thirst, and cold.
6. We seldom repent of having eaten too little.
7. Nothing is troublesome that we do willingly.
8. How much pain evils have cost us that have never happened!
9. Take things always by their smooth handle.
10. When angry, count to ten before you speak - if very angry, count a hundred.
You’re missing the point entirely that religion should be kept out of public schools. Period.
I remember in grade school saying the Pledge of Allegiance having different older teachers who refused to hear “one nation, under God” from their class. Those “religious” words, added by Eisenhower, were offensive to the separation of church and state.
Judy Davis, I learned the Pledge of Allegiance before “…under God” was in it. To this day I do not say it. While in high school, someone from the National Honor Society had to read something from the Bible over the loudspeaker when school started. I volunteered because I learned many “non-denominational”sections and recited them. By the way, I was then and am now a Unitarian/secular humanist.
You are not alone refusing to say ‘under god’ during the pledge.
This law also violates the Louisiana state constitution, see section 8.
Agree, religion belongs in churches which are privately owned and supported. Schools are publicly owned and supported. Displaying the Declaration of Independence would be acceptable, keeping a copy of the Constitution of the United States would be acceptable.
But when I taught secondary school in California, we were required to swear the oath of allegiance. I refused to repeat the phrase "under god" added in the 1950's.
There’s 6000 religions so the commandments shouldn’t even be posted.
Rusty - You say there are 6000 religions so why not POST ALL OF THEM with what would parallel the 10 Commandments. Practically everyone is then included ... Thus TRANSPARENCY !
I love it. Just wallpaper the rooms with it.
Put it on toilet paper. Then it will be certain they're read.
Could make wallpaper out of all that! Made myself laugh just imaging that!
How about posting them in the original Hebrew?
How about not posting religion at all in public schools?
I fully agree - I was being facetious.
I like Mom's commandment: If you get it out, put it back.
Fabulous💙
Hopefully Alito and Thomas will be away from the court before the Louisiana case makes it. Either by Biden getting reelected or Congress impeachment of them.
We all knew Cannon was on the take. Why else would he have approved her especially when her hubby worked on his campaign. Blame Rick Scott and Marco Rubio because they wouldn’t fill that vacancy when Obama was in office and they didn’t like the other judges that were on the list. This is why it’s important that Florida residents don’t put Mr. Medicare fraud Scott back in office! I’m encouraging everyone to support Debbie Mucarsel Powell by doing postcards and texting. Hopefully Jack can finally go to the 11th appeals court.
Having Rick Scott anywhere close to decision making on government spending, especially Medicare and Social Security is extraordinarily dumb and unwise.
Floriduh is a lost cause. Don’t go there.
Don’t give up. Nikki Fried has put qualified candidates in every state house and congressional elections.
I have no choice. As an ex-pat, I vote where I was last registered in the US, which is Florida. Shout out to Seminole County Supervisor of Elections, Chris Anderson, the one R I have 0 problem voting for. His office has been great to work with re. voting from overseas.
There’s some really good supervisor of elections that’s republicans in Florida. Flagler county has a good one and I had no problem with my mail in ballot or dropping it in the Drop box.
She will get my vote!
Professor, there were over 7000 folks on SCOTUSblog this morning when the 4 cases dropped. Your analysis of the 3 Opinions & 1 per Curiam order by the Chief Judge ... was the best.
Heads Up: I posted on Civil Discourse before that on 1/26/24 BLOOMBERG LAW's, Lydia Wheeler exposed the groups & individuals that brought the Mifepristone case. Lydia writes that 2 other SCOTUS case this term like MURFY v, MISSOURI, are manufactured by a related Trust, Corporate entities such as 'NCLA' & individuals.
Deeper research indicates the Mifepristone case was funded by "Donor's Trust", supported by individuals such as Leonard Leo, a 501(c)(4) identified as "Marble 'Freedom' [no] Trust & others.
********************************
Friday, June 21 - 'Looking Ahead' to Murthy vs Missouri opinion coming soon.
Murfthy vs Missouri is another NCLA generated case, 23-411, that was argued on 3/18/24 - 96 Days ago. The case is about attacking social media platforms from stoping mis & disinformation
"or otherwise even meeting with social media" to discuss "content moderation".
These issues some Readers may recall, I have posted about many times here on Substack both at Civil Discourse & on LFAA authored by our remarkable Professors, Joyce & Heather.
Thank you, Bryan!
Great information, Brian!
And this is a very good article to your point, https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/21/us-supreme-court-conservative-lies?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
On point Jeff .🎯 I am regular reader of The Guardian US Edition but, I had not seen or read MOIRA DONEGAN's 6/21/24 penetrating article. .
Moira, if you are out there, that was accurate, fact-filled context into the Plaintiffs, the Moores, & theire non-payment of fair taxes on overseas operation which is in fact "INCOME" under U.S. Tax Law.
Superior Link Jeff.
The posting from Paula B. gave me the courage to write about my own experiences as a Jewish child in the Philadelphia public school system. Yes, I too had to sing Christmas carols, but I just mouthed the truly upsetting words.
However, in elementary school we also had to listen to a Bible reading every morning. In a reading from the New Testament one day, I heard "Pray not like the hypocrites in the Synagogue." That truly shook me and made me anxious fearing what I might hear in any future readings - and that was over 78 years ago!
Im sorry. Children are so vulnerable and to me, who rejected the "lord" at 8 after hearing the story of Lot (and was thrown out of Sunday school in my small Kansas Methodist whorehouse), I felt outraged and hurt even then.
And like you, it hasn't stopped.
❤️❤️
It would be very interesting to review Cannon's emails, phone logs and any other communication she has received or been part of during the last 10 months. While we will never see them, it is an interesting question - Has she been communicating with Trump and/or his minions?
Federalist Society gives her orders. She apparently has already been paid for this work (real estate).
I bet she has all of them on speed dial, with Trump at the top. (I wonder how far down the list her husband is!)
Federalist Society. I’m certain of it.
Never dumpty directly. Always a surrogate.
Well you know that the “biggies
Are going to come on a Friday or last day of court. This way they have time to leave town or go on an all expense paid vacation.
That crossed my mind too.
Thanks for everything you do. I’ve learned so much since I subscribed. I calm down when I read your posts.
Calmer and more angry.
Always felt that Judge Cannon was being coached by not just one person but by several with the same endgame. Thanks for all you do Joyce to make things clearer for all of us on the subject of the law and its current abuse.
She's on the Federalist Society team, perhaps well compensated (real estate) for her (piece of) work.
That's what the rat bastards do well.
Funny thing is is that there is no God. I know this because Mrs God told me so.
Love the conditional piety of the Louisiana legislature and governor, along with the usual conditional originalism about the intent of the Founders. No wonder polling shows the young leaving organized religion in droves. The fact is, a number of the Founders, including Madison the "lead architect" of the Constitution, were Deists, valuing reason over religious dogma. This was an important influence on the religion clauses of the First Amendment --- ensuring (the Founders' hoped) the free exercise of all religions and the establishment of none as the preferred one. Want to provide secular educational value, add similar or related tenets from the Koran, Tripitaka and the Vedas alongside the Ten Commandments. A nice little grouping of examples of the world's religions. But then again, educational value is not the point, is it? And so it continues, this Crusade in modern dress. You have the absolute right to believe. You also have the absolute right not to believe or have the beliefs of others imposed on you. So far...
Don't forget the loathsome slimy Speaker.
I was living in the Bremerton area when Kennedy did his prayer thing. No one was happy. I was in attendance at those games. At the end of the season he was fired. His contract was year to year so he could be fired without cause. It would have all died down if groups outside of WA state didn’t get involved. It cost the school district so much money. Money that should have been spent on education. It made Kitsap County residents very angry with very few happy with the results.
As I recall, some of the football players were led to believe they would be benched if they didn’t attend. Repulsive.
Who put the idiot there to begin with?
I will not defend his post games actions at all, but I will say he was a good football coach. If only he would have just stuck with that.
There is a suspicion here that Loose Cannon is not over her head, incompetent or inexperienced but rather she has been coached by an outsider to muck up the case to either further delay it or get it thrown out all together. There is something rotten going on. She was a high honors student as she attended the university, she is not stupid. An investigation is called for here or a review by a higher court is needed and her eventual removal is becoming more and more likely. How can the DOJ allow this farce to continue. And where the hell is our Attorney General? What an embarrassment he is.
Federalist Society Child.