Today, we focus on Trump’s appeal to the Supreme Court after Judge Chutkan denied his motion to dismiss the Special Counsel’s election interference case, claiming he has absolute immunity from criminal prosecution as a former president.
Thank you, Joyce. I find it hard to believe the conservative/reactionary justices even care about the rule of law. These are dispiriting, disheartening, and disillusioning times.
Thanks Dan, the off topic quality of the discussion by 4 justices certainly earned this title. The supreme court usually confines itself to a narrow scope of the case before them. These justices were not interested in whether the president can sic a mob on the capital... they wanted to wander around in the future of what could possibly happen bad for a president--not the constitution, not the people. This change in the supreme court's role may ultimately be as bad for us as their questions seemed to indicate for the rule of law.
They do not. They have been placed on the court upon the advice of The Federalist Society who has their own vision for a 19th century country or the Viktor Orban model of governance.
I would be sickened to hear Chief Justice Roberts offer up another opinion like “corporations are people.”
I don’t share the ominous opinions about this court because Donald Trump will not be elected President, the Democrats will regain the House and the Senate but, only by a simple majority because they won’t be able to achieve the 2/3 majority to sustain a conviction for impeachment of the Supreme Court’s conservatives until the next election cycle.
We have been bombarded by poll, after poll, after poll, after poll almost daily for the past several years because the mass media needed something to justify advertising costs, increasing circulation and keeping eyeballs on their video programming.
The mass media has highlighted and stressed reporting that Biden or Trump won with 85% or 95% of the votes.
I believe that the more important numbers, which were neglected and not reported by the media are the total population of all citizens of the state, the total number of eligible qualified electors (registered voters)in the state, the number and percentage of citizens of a state that actually are registered voters of both parties of a state, and the total number of citizens of a particular state of both parties of a state that actually voted in their primary election(s).
Finally, what is the percentage of registered voters of the total population of a state that actually voted, 2% in Iowa, approximately 10% in New Hampshire and 5% South Carolina.
Just recently in Pennsylvania, out of a total population of 13 million, 8.7 million are eligible voters, 4 million Democrats, 3.5 million Republicans and 1 million Independents, who are not permitted to vote in Pennsylvania’s closed primary election.
The total number of votes cast by both parties was 1.9 million votes, which excluded 1million independent voters for a total percentage of 4.6% of eligible voters and 3% of the total population of the state.
I would submit that after several years of constant polling, the best that can be shown is that on average, somewhere between statistically insignificant 3%, and barely significant 10%, would best describe voter turnout for the 2024 national primary election cycle for all states.
Trump and his Republican sycophantic allies and their protection racket schemes, and lying, fraudulent financial schemes, and the hyperbole by the FOX Republican news channel and others, have barely moved their Republican voter involvement needle.
I would submit that in the best interests of our country the foregoing is the true headline that needs to be published.
I pray your prediction of President, House, Senate all Democratic. I hope for the official demise of the Republican Party which isn't anything but a Trump-fearful group of cowards.
The Republicans aren't the only cowards. Why is it that not one Democrat filed a criminal complaint against any Republican that conspired 18 USC 371 and/or aided and abetted 18 USC 2, to overthrow the the government on Jan. 6, not one? Saving lives and influencing destiny one day at a time. Karl
My concern is that after all is said and done, and evaluating numbers one way or another up the kazoo, the popular vote which should be the deciding factor, can be undone by the electoral college. The latter has to be GONE!
That would require a constitutional amendment, currently that would require affirmation by 37 states. In the meantime we need to turn out the vote of Democrats and Independents, and not allow 3% to 10% of the population's qualified electors choose for us. This will initiate the phase one of the eradication of the largest criminal enterprise in the country.
Article I Section 3 ",,,And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the Members present." That could be an arrangement whereby the Democrats ask enough Republican members of the Senate to go fishing so the Democrats have two thirds of members present, but don't hold your breath.
The Conservative Justices do care, in so much as it affects what they want and how they want things to go... Those who elected to even hear this case knew they were throwing DJT a lifeline... Frankly it's time to end Lifetime Appointments...
EXACTLY, if they give immunity because it is/would be impossible for a President to do the job of Presidenting then Biden could throw the supreme court away. I don't think a non criminal President would need immunity but we aren't talking about a non criminal, they haven't mentioned his name but they are making these considerations because of the criminal under federal indictments many times over.
I think that someone should pose the question to them, "What if the president were to insist that the members of the court be executed? Would he be able to do that as a hypothetical?" Like forget him executing Biden, or trying to, how about him executing them. Someone has to make clear that they are giving Trump permission to do this, and Biden too for that matter, if he can do anything. Secondly, this is going on because the American people do not go out to march on this. I understand the imperative of Gaza, but why is this any less an imperative and something to occupy campuses on? Does the youth of the land understand what is at stake, or for that matter, most of the people? People should be in front of the courts protesting Clarence Thomas being a part of the discussion, and they should be in front of Congress insisting that they impeach Thomas. It doesn't matter if they cannot pass it, it would wake the people of the land up to the need to do it.
I love that the newest Supreme, Ketanji Brown Jackson, distilled the core of the immunity case as described by Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe who said, “Jackson got to the point, ‘All we have to do is do our job, and our job is to decide the case before us, and on the facts before us, there is no plausible case for immunity.’
Authoritarians want to fatigue us into “crying uncle”. Apathy towards politics is a soft voter suppression strategy. It might be why 50% of the population doesn’t vote at all.
I know what they want and I'm not crying uncle, some days are so damn difficult to even read the news because it's more of the same. The criminals are doing their thing and too many (like SCOTUS) are making it easier for them and not protecting democracy. I always vote and always encourage others to do the same. It's on all of us to encourage people that every vote counts and to vote responsibly. Someone I listen to on the radio says "despair is not an option" ...not always easy though.
This court and the way they seem to allow Trump and the GOP States to get away with harm they have done e and will do to all Americans is so discouraging. I don’t get my hopes up at all anymore. The legal system drags its feet so slowly making the outrageous become neutral. One day SCOTUS will rue the day they bent over backwards to this petty man.
Watchandlearn -- And will be impossible to unseat once he gets to the throne. This is an entire new concept of governance I cannot conceive would be appropriate. I think Canada would gain a lot of new citizens, and perhaps consider building a wall along our northern border.
Perhaps Dreeben should have tried to make it real: if a President decided he had a disagreeable supreme court Justice he could do something unpleasant to happen to him and his family.
Biden wouldn't, but damn sure an unfettered Drumpf would.
We ought to make that bastard revert to his actual family name.
Funny how SCOTUS is so focused on their place in history and so little on more humbly resolving the particular problem before them.
Question: has any lawyer appearing before this court had the gumption to apply for Justice Thomas’ recusal on the basis of his wife’s well-publicised efforts to overturn the last presidential election? Or is it all just handwringing from the sidelines?
Ken, you have asked some interesting questions. As far as handwringing goes, I agree wholeheartedly because I've also wondered about that, too. It seems to me that SCOTUS is making a mockery of this whole process, all because of their adoration of their king.
Dianne- Your word “mockery” is so appropriate. This is exactly what I concluded after sitting in the supermarket parking lot for a a good half hour cringing over the back-and-forth between the far-right justices and t-rump’s lawyer. All the “bobbing and weaving” to feed him answers made me sick.
Nancy, OMG! I thought I was the only one who gets so affected by this.
Sometimes, when I'm watching discussions about All Things Trump, it frustrates me to the point that I find myself changing channels or just turning off my TV.
I wish that WE were the ones who choose SCOTUS members with our votes. It's way, way, way too political while giving these nine people that much power!
I way prefer Joyce’s letter to the news. She really nailed the tone of the far right justices and the sensible women Justices,. Comey-Barrett surprised me.
I agree with you. Joyce has a way of "calming down" the horrible situation we're in. That may sound odd, but I couldn't think of another way to express that.
Sometimes, I feel sorry for Comey-Barrett because of all the pressure she's under. Trump appointed her, so maybe she feels she owes her loyalty to him. Not as extreme as Judge Loose Cannon, thank goodness. But Amy seems more settled now that she's been one of the Supremes for a few years now
We'll need to wait and see how this all works out. Hopefully, they'll rule against Trump. How can they NOT do that? If they say it's okay, then from now on, a President has carte blanch --- period. He or she can order right wing extremists to kill anyone who's a Democrat or start a war because they don't like something that a leader from another country says or does. The possibilities are endless.
Sorry Dianne Loftus I disagree. Not exactly adoration of that guy though I understand an impulse to see things that way. Adoration of themselves is at base of their every impulse in this and so many other cases. “Originalists” my eye. I think that clatch operates mostly from a need to be right and beyond reproach and tippy top dogs in their worlds and the public’s. That is, they operate mostly from profound self-serving arrogance. And merely see the former president as a ready means to fulfil that personal agenda. Rather low ke what drives TFG’s snake oil salesman modus operandi.
Marion, it's okay to disagree. At this point, I feel as if I'm going crazy because a lot of this doesn't make sense. If it weren't for Joyce, this REALLY wouldn't make sense.
Yes, it's obvious that most of SCOTUS members believe they can walk on water.
Well, yes! Certainly, Clarence Thomas raises questions - and I say this in all seriousness, having done my time as a lawyer from another place. His position on any court dealing with these constitutional issues, let alone an ultimate court of appeal like the High Court of Australia or UK Supreme Court, would be completely untenable. In either country you could be absolutely certain that he would not be sitting on these cases. Most likely without the need for any litigant to move for his recusal. And it would be highly probable that he would have resigned from the bench altogether - for the good of the institution, irrespective of his personal political beliefs, or whether in fact he and his spouse's pillow talk centred on excluding Biden from office, or other, happier things.
OMG, your discussion is so polite!!! After the nine black robes (8 because Thomas already has his mind made up) were given a simple case to preserve the rule of law (well argued in detail in the lower courts) on an existential threat to democracy did everything to obscure the simple historical decision they needed to make for the country with legal sophistry. They are truly a national disgrace. Joyce, don't you ever get angry?
"OMG, your discussion is so polite!!! [...] They are truly a national disgrace. Joyce, don't you ever get angry?"
The calm analysis and political level-headedness is precisely the reason I love coming here every day. There are plenty of partisan-leftie websites and forums where people do yell and scream at the bastardry of the ruling class, but those are far less interesting to read, and 300 angry comments can be very boring to wade through (DKOS is one that can be very tiresome).
IanWilliams -- I agree. This has become a haven for me, especially after hearing that three-hour horror today. I keep asking myself "What were they thinking ?"
I agree. Many people here are more knowledgeable than I, and are better at expressing themselves in writing. I don't like yelling and screaming. It accomplishes nothing and is useless. Better to seek knowledge.
Jeoffrey, I agree. We can see through Thomas, so when it comes time for the Supremes to make their final decision, they can save a few minutes of their "precious" time by not even asking him how he votes.
Meanwhile, I've never met Joyce, but even so, she seems kind and polite. As for her getting angry, she doesn't need to worry about that, because all of this stuff makes me angry enough for the both of us. Maybe you, too!
I just can't understand how ANYONE, no matter which party they vote for, isn't concerned about our democracy. I often wonder whether those people are taking this threat seriously. Heaven forbid, if Trump wins, they'll soon have a big wake-up call.
Well, to tell the truth I love and admire Joyce! Also I admire her bravery for living in Alabama and loving it, elitist Californian that I am. I was not really serious, just trying to add a little levity to a really sickening and horrible day at the Court.
I admire Joyce, too, and have always looked forward to seeing her on MSNBC because I appreciated her insight, wisdom and experience in a way that viewers could understand. (Just like what we're privileged to read about daily.) I can't remember how I found out about Civil Discourse, but I am REALLY glad that I found it!
At the risk of sounding too nosey, what kinds of topics do you decide for each of your substacks? How long have you been doing that? Sorry for asking these questions, but before Civil Discourse, I had never heard of such a thing.
If this decision goes where it looks like it's going, we will at least be easily able to identify the date of the fall of the constitutional democratic republic: April 25, 2024. That'll make it easier for we historians.
TC, Respectfully, If we more aggressively mobilize to ensure Democratic victories up and down the ballot, April 25, 2024 could mark the beginning of the end of the MAGA effort to precipitate both a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a Presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual.
TC, I prefer to believe our words (and actions) capable of sending ripples of influence conceivably gaining prominence in public dialogue and contributing to shaping public policy.
Indeed... "mad props" to your thinking here Barbara... this is, in point of fact, the true bottom line. We MUST mobilize and Vote ALL "Trump apologizers and lemmings" OUT.💯🎯
Sometimes it's the most sickening thing, the straw that breaks the camels back that is the motive to truly standup and do something. Their overturning Roe certainly didn't make us go quietly into the night - it became go time and now we must keep going!!
Pat, Precisely! Accordingly, we can’t allow the conservative Justices’ willful ploys to protect Trump from legal scrutiny and accountability to go unanswered.
Betty, For some time, experts have claimed that the one branch of government that seemingly has held is the judiciary. If the conservative justices succeed in preventing the J6 trial from proceeding before the election, we no longer can cling to that claim. Accordingly, every day leading up to the election we will need to drive home the consequences of this breakdown in the balance of powers our Founders had established to protect us from the excesses of any one branch.
WE the People must strive for, demand, and obtain Balance of Powers!
Guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution! We must demand it of our elected officials AND vote for only candidates who respect it!
Of course, these justices are appointed technically to life-time jobs. Believe me-the Federalist Society has tremendous powers over these conservatives! Dangerously dangling over the political scene within nation! Justices are “members” and support this group! Proud of it since the Federalist Society got them their attention and jobs!
@ Barbara Joe. Potentially 13 million unregistered people trend heavily Democratic. FT6 uses data mining to identify them. 60% of unregistered voters have never been asked to register and are eager to hear from us.
Daniel, While I am aware of the need, given the demands on my time, I continually recalibrate my priorities to determine where my strengths can do the most good.
sadly, cleaning up the judicial consequences of the would-be-dictator's prior term of office will still require retirements, deaths and/or impeachments, all of which are somewhere in the indefinite future.
@Just Sayin’, Because courts are subject to people’s belief in their legitimacy, I am becoming increasingly confident that, with Democratic majorities, everyday people will be poised to prevail upon reluctant office holders to expand both the Supreme Court and the lower courts. Besides, unlike 1869, when there were 9 SCOTUS Justices and 9 U.S. Circuit Courts, 1 Justice assigned to each, currently, there are 13 U.S. Circuit Courts. Expanding SCOTUS would allow each Justice, once again, to follow the cases in a specific region.
I think, based on the SCOTUS behavior today - it's to late to do that. Sorry to say. I wish it were not so...oh how I ever don't want this to be the case. This is the beginning of the end as far as I can see.
Betty, Respectfully, I’m baffled by your response. It suggests that Democratic races up and down the ballot hinge solely on whether or not Trump is held criminally accountable for January 6th.
As an alternative, I suggest, as a start, we ensure we are sufficiently educated regarding both what the current Administration has accomplished and also how it plans to continue working for us over the next 4 years. Next, we seek every opportunity to spread the word.
Barbara, sadly. I agree with Betty about it being too late. I hope I am wrong but it’s difficult to see Roberts standing up to counter to his extremist counterparts.
Joyce wrote: “It’s also about the legacy of the Roberts Court and whether history will view the already unpopular Justices as the Court that gave away democracy.”
Unfortunately history is written by the victors. If the Roberts Court becomes the Court that “gave away democracy” it will be whitewashed by the Christian Fascist if (when?) they take over the government of our country. Roberts and his cronies will then be portrayed as patriots or some other bogus personification.
I’m not even sure our upcoming November elections will be viewed as legit by the Christian Fascists justices on the Roberts Court unless Trump is the winner. Based on how they are handling the presidential immunity case before them it’s easy to see they would be motivated to find a way to circumvent the vote and declare trump the winner in November.
The failure of Justice Thomas to recuse when recusal is so obviously called for taints any decision the Court teaches. They do not operate as a court of law, but as a political body. They spent their time focusing on everything but the actual indictment before them. It was embarrassingly transparent that they want to delay this case.
Susan, This was their game plan when Jack Smith asked for cert. and this is exactly why Jack Smith asked for cert. he wanted to smoke them out and he did. This is a sham Court. I’m hoping for demonstrations this spring and summer. Joe Biden is going to be reelected, we are going to take back the house, and we will have a blue bicameral Congress. Ginny Thomas needs to be indicted. Clarence would then be forced to resign.
I wish that would happen soon so we could have a nomination for a decent replacement for Clarence before November.
Agree, Valere. We win in November and take back the House and Senate. Then the first thing Smith does is push for trial against Trump. Second, we go after Leonard Leo, The Heritage Foundation people, and Clarence & Ginni Thomas. We expand the Court with lots of women and those of color, however, Joyce, Barb, and or Jamie Raskin could sit there, as well.
Agree Marlene. I think the DOJ will indict some Congress folks for their roles. In my humble opinion, I think that Mike Johnson is trying to cushion himself against some of that by trying to pretend he’s a human being with releasing aid for Ukraine and stopping our government from shutting down. He was one of the architects of January 6, but there are many more to go after to give a very strong message to Congress. That needs cleaned up. Absolutely Ginny Thomas. Leo is very slippery.
Leo is like an eel...keep your eyes on him. He has yet to be brought before any committee to answer for all the underhanded things he has done. He is definitely a critical player all of this...if it ends as intended, we may never know...there is is the crux of the matter. Just how deep is he in.? I think he's in as deep as possible.
Read up on him, he's been at this for years...literally. Now here we are having to live with what he and Alito, et al have conspired to do to the women of this country, among all the other things he's done behind the scenes. He is NOT any type of government employee, and he must be investigated to determine all he has done...it will be shocking.
Thank you for this, Valere. Your acumen in this area is formidable, to say the least💯. I have come to the assessment that Jack is a very savvy "Legal Chess player" with several "cloaked" advanced decision-tree moves planned ahead. This is all very plausible and a viable way to end-around this abomination of a Trump-appointed dominant SCOTUS.
Hi Marc, many more with more acumen than I have on this Substack. You are absolutely spot on about Jack. He knew in advance when he requested cert what he was doing - Jack doesn’t do anything without a reason.
Our job is to elect blue up down and sideways to position ourselves with a blue reelected president and blue bicameral Congress so we can put protections in place and get our civil rights restored. We can (will) do this!! 💙
"Joe Biden is going to be re-elected, we are going to take back the house, and we will have a blue bicameral Congress. Ginny Thomas needs to be indicted. Clarence would then be forced to resign."
As has been discussed previously, even if the Democrats hold every Senate seat they have to contest, and flipped every Republican senate seat being contested, the Dems can't get to two-thirds, and barely 60.
I dearly hope Biden is re-elected, and the House returns to Democrat control, but the Senate looks a bridge way too far, because of the horrendous electoral map this cycle. Four more years of deadlock and GOP skulduggery, and a politicised Supreme Court.
IanWilliams -- I suggest seriously supporting Jon Tester's Senate re-election in Montana. His opponent, Sheehy, has very scary backing, and his different stories of how he was wounded in the arm should delete him from consideration. Tester is a mainstay we shouldn't to without.
Yes Ian, you have posed your opinion about our success at a bicameral Congress. I’m majority this November is not out of reach. And we need about four cycles (indeed, that would be four cycles, four years per cycle ) to return our democracy to its previous levels. It’s not going to happen overnight and I’ve never said it would. I’ve simply pointed to the fact that we need to.begin by gaining a blue bicameral in November and reelect Joe Biden. We can disagree, but I’m holding to the thought that that’s what we’re going to accomplish. I’m not suggesting we need a 2/3 majority we need a majority. We need to indict Ginny Thomas for Clarence to resign. He can’t stay in the office if she is indicted That needs to happen sooner than later
Thomas shouldn't have ever been on the court, I well remember how he lied during his confirmation hearings. Unfortunately, Biden whom I adore what he is doing and has done for our country was instrumental in appointing him...everybody makes mistakes...I guess.
We absolutely must retain the Senate as well. In this environment I can see zero judicial nominations approved by a Republican Senate. They might even refuse to consider cabinet nominations.
Because it's clear to me that Republicans fundamentally do not accept the concept of Democrats exercising political power.
TBH the Democratic Senate has played along with this, they've been far more passive than necessary. Why are there any judicial vacancies on the docket? Why haven't they held hearings on the corruption in the SC? They're as useless as the House of Lords.
Elections have consequences! Remember IF Hillary Clinton had been elected, those three (3) Trump nominated justices would never be PLUS we would not have lost the Right to Abortion! So VOTE to hold on to OUR Democracy!
True but irrelevant. We have to deal with the situation as it exists on Earth 1, where trump won, not Earth 2 where President Hillary is wrapping up her 2nd term.
Let there be no doubt: the fix is in for Trump. I listened at the beach, sitting in my Surf Truck, while my buddies paddled out and I sat for 2+ hours, livid, furious, outraged, terrified. Friends came over to ask if I was ok. No, I said, not ok. Not good. Our democracy is being scuttled by 5 or 6 unelected ideologues, including a corrupt one — Justice (ugh…should not have to use that word before his name) Thomas — who REFUSED to discuss the facts surrounding the events of J6, the facts arising out of the ONLY attempt to overthrow the government. Let there be no doubt: the fix is in for Trump.
Here it is. They already know how they’re going to rig this case. “Every time Dreeben tried to respond to questions they asked him and began to score points, they seemingly lost interest, never permitting him to get in a full answer.”
"Is a former president entitled to immunity for criminal acts committed while president, and if so, what is the scope of that immunity?"
Never has it been more apparent that in the end it is the moral character of those with power that is most important. When we allow liars, bribe takers, drunken ragers, we get judges who don’t judge… they simply stir up mud to hide decisions which smear legitimate questions…
“Alito suggests there are not enough legal safeguards in place to protect presidents against malicious prosecution if they don’t have some form of immunity. He tells Dreeben that the grand jury process isn’t much of a protection because prosecutors, as the saying goes, can indict a ham sandwich.” Mud or mustard thrown at the wall. A Justice who does not believe in our judicial system. Depressing as hell!
The Defendant/appellant came before the Court with a singular claim: ABSOLUTE immunity for any and all acts performed whilst in office...that's it. And where did at least four Justices go with that claim? "What-iffing" and "whatabouting" acts past and future of OTHER presidents, for god's sake. It's almost as if tRump was a spectator or bystander, and not the principal focus of arguments. And slimy Alito, virtually asking John Sauer for tRump what HE would settle for from this Court.
Well, I say how about asking what we the public would settle for? Does this country want immunity from criminal acts for its president? How about "partial" immunity? Does that work for us? Or, how about the very basic and foundational principle that No Man Is Above The Law...can we all agree upon THAT as a working hypothesis for constitutional government? What say you, Justices?
Fab post Lance. Exactly - I thought the same when he asked John Sauer what he would settle for. It is exactly being a surrogate for Trump, As though they are kissing Trump’s ring in absentia. Why have a pretend court session at all? Just ask Trump what he wants and write it up.
If the elected president had a moral fiber, and a core, there wouldn’t need to be special protections. Biden doesn’t need these kinds of special protections.
Our decision is going to be which one of these pretenders do we impeach first? I’m hoping Ginny Thomas is indicted so Clarence will step down. Then we can impeach Ito after we have Joe Biden re-elected
to office, and a bicameral blue Congress. Let’s do this!💙
Marc, If you harken back to the verdict in the verdict in the E. Jean Carroll case, you will see that Justice *has* been properly served. An 80-year-old woman broke his back. She and her attorney annihilated him. In the eyes of the public, he became a rapist, a fraud who had no money and had lied about his money because he didn’t have enough cash to pay the appeal bond. There will be an appeal, but he’s going to lose it Robbie Kaplan made sure that her case was appeal proof. The citizens of the United States know who he is thanks to E. Jean Carroll. He is annihilated. He is broken. So in that sense, justice has been served. Everything from that point on has been downhill for Trump and it’s going to get worse.
He’s going to lose everything. He’s going to lose his properties in New York, he will not be able to do business in New York. He’s going to lose the election. His health is gone. According to a number of psychiatrist who have watched video video of him in depth, he is in mid to late stage dementia, and is probably sundowning. We Americans with our idea of “justice “want to see a guilty verdict that puts him in jail. But think about what justice means, and if it means losing everything as he has, take a bit of heart, knowing that justice has been served. Our job is to make sure we react Joe Biden, and we vote blew up down and sideways to gain a blue bicameral Congress to restore our civil rights that have been lost and we need to think about doing some impeachments on the Supreme Court. Trump is broken. I don’t think there are many people who are more aware of and disturbed by the egregious behavior of Trump than I. The fact that he could organize an army of thugs to take away, our votes is nearly beyond comprehension. We are still missing more than 100 classified documents, and those could have been marketed to a very dangerous dictator. Our intelligence community very likely knows exactly what happened to those documents. And if our intelligence community knows it, so does Joe Biden because there is nobody more astute with intelligence than Joe Biden. The fact that we have conservative justices who are willing to continue to sell their souls to keep Trump out of prison isn’t surprising. Their role has been a set up to take away the right self Women first, then Black, then anyone in the LGBTQ community and they’ve been doing this since Reagan was in office. We have , our work cut out for us beyond reelecting Joe and getting the blue bicameral Congress. I think Joyce knows how incredibly important it is for a group such as the folks on this Substack to continue as a community to reverse the egregious harm that has been done to us. I hope you are one of the community who stay beyond the election and understand that we’re just warming up:) 💙
By the way, people I like to read on this Substack are Laura McElroy, Bryan McCowan and Ira Lechner. They are kind of like the weathervane for me so I can tell what’s coming down the highway.
I can't fathom that the Supreme Court is considering granting immunity. This is a dark day. With my 66th birthday coming up in a couple of weeks, I see the world burning down.
Selfish of me to ask Charlie, but could you please help us by writing postcards to re-elect Trump? You only have to sign your first name and the hand-write the prewritten message.
You will receive a reply that walks you through the process of signing up to write postcards. You need to purchase postcards and stamps - but it's an effective way to make change.
It’s ludicrous that the question even needs to be asked! What if the CEO of a corporation committed crimes while in that position? Would immunity be claimed?
I think many of the SC Justices are no longer living in reality. Unless, as many are positing, that there is a foregone outcome here.
both. They live in Leonard Leo's world. They live separated from the real world of people. it really showed in the Idahol abortion case. The women, including Barrett, discussed real issues- ectopic pregnancy, hemorrhage. The men discussed esoteric technical issues, divorced from real people.
It’s so interesting that this hasn’t been a question before. I find it interesting that unless the justices confine their rulings to future presidents to avoid Biden’s having these opportunities they shouldn’t apply to the orange tot either.
Joyce, I have a question. If the Constitution states the neccessity of high crimes & misdemeanors for impeachment & the J6 committee & Jack Smith have shown them, how can the "originalists" decide otherwise?
Tracy, in any other world that would be considered to be a very logical question. But in this world, with this Supreme Court, using corpus, linguistics AI to write their briefs, They aren’t making decisions at all. They’re just piling up words and data to show have enough ‘history’ quantify their briefs, not an organic thought among them. Thank Utah Republican, Senator Mike Lee’s brother, a former justice on Utah’s Supreme Court who created the artificial intelligence corpus linguistics software for the judges to use. He was the professor in the law school at BYU and got his hands on the linguistic programs from their linguistics department (they have extensive language programs and data from teaching their missionaries). The credible justices on the Supreme Court do not use the AI artificial intelligence program, but we know Alito and Thomas are using it.
It was either Politico or an Atlantic publication. Fact-based and gave the locations of all the ‘workshops’ and seminars: deer Valley in Park city of course; The Greenbriar in West Virginia (all 5 stars).
One can google and gain the sordid details. As with all AI and never disappears. So whatever their trusty little fingers were typing in, their questions will be kept forever in the database. Not surprising at all that the two biggest cheaters on the bench are cheating with brief writing. So they may have thought they were doing something quick and dirty and clever; but the reality is, it’s going to bite them. It’s always always always better to go through the struggle to create your own content. Then you can copyright it. Nothing you write on the AI is able to be copyrighted and they think they’re getting away with something, but it can all be discoverable. They need to watch out for those smart Gen Z kids!!
Marlene, in AI, the answers don’t matter. The questions are pertinent and they can be found so Ito and Thomas think they have confidentiality but they don’t. Whatever answers they received and have used and briefs can be searched back to find their questions. They’ve already lost credibility, but just imagine being exposed as someone who is incapable of writing a brief and sitting at the Supreme Court level. Lots of lawyers do use AI. I Personally, I organically composé everything - So if it’s a paper for publication or a white paper, it’s original work and that way I copyright it. You can’t copyright anything on AI it’s open for anyone to take. Why would anyone do that when you can simply rewrite a draft a few times? Most of the folks I know who use AI don’t have the mental ceiling or energy to research and write: it’s just a matter of doing it. But you simply can’t do original work and publish it if you use AI and that is what to me is so disingenuous about Supreme Court judges, who are simply compiling data and words. In other words, whatever they’re doing is in capable of constructing a theoretical framework and yet they’re passing it off. Indeed, Gen Z needs to get on this and expose their fingerprints for the world to see. I’ve always thought Clarence Thomas had a low mental ceiling and this almost confirms it to me. I can’t even say ‘allegedly.’
Ouchbabe... I had my suspicions.... but thank you so much, Valere, for clarifying the intellectually lame AI-based contributions to this scenario. You rock.💯
George Herbert Walker Bush appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court to replace Thurgood Marshall. Clarence Thomas couldn’t carry Thurgood Marshall’s water across the street. But Bush Senior was able to check off the boxes with his replacement choice. Thomas had no judicial background. He has a low intellectual ceiling but he’s doing his job for the puppet masters and they’re doing their job for him.
By the way, it’s taken a while, but Ketanji Brown Jackson is the real replacement for Thurgood Marshall. She has a core as did Thurgood Marshall, and she is carrying on his legacy.
💙 just part of this struggle we are in and it’s not going to end after we reelect Joe Biden in November. Will be together for a long time, restoring our democracy:))
If, as I think we all suspect, SCOTUS grants Trump even limited immunity, then I fear we can no longer claim to have 3 branches of government. The Judicial Branch will have been completely subsumed by the Executive Branch and the concept of checks and balances will no longer apply to our government. Without such checks and balances the whole underpinning of our Democracy crumbles. This was a very sad day and one that, in the fullness of time, will be seen as the first nail in the coffin of Democracy in America.
We actually lost our democracy when the Supreme Court remanded Bush v. Gore, 2000 back to Florida. So we’ve lied along in this mess for almost 25 years. It’s time to impeach a few of these jokers.
@ Ann. Limited immunity. I'm not sure whether this was argued at t he DC level so by rights should have been waived. As Robert Hubbell is saying: "The hearing itself was a supreme outrage. While the reactionary majority may not adopt the most extreme version of Trump’s defense, they need not do so to grant Trump a victory. Indeed, they have already granted Trump most of what he asked for: a lengthy delay." Ian Millheiser says Republican justices, engaged in dizzying feats of reverse logic. https://www.vox.com/scotus/24140309/supreme-court-donald-trump-immunity-jack-smith
Someone mentioned "scope and course" of employment. IMHO there are probably mixed questions of law and fact. Could be a jury question. This is the kind of stuff that comes up in civil law and workers' comp all the time. "Personal" matters like trying to subvert the will of the people.
Consider the concepts of frolic and detour. Generally, a “detour” constitutes a minor departure from an employee's duties but is still considered acting within the scope of employment, whereas a “frolic” would be a major departure from the scope of employment undertaken for that employee's own benefit. I think Trump blew it by failing to address it at the DC level.
This was the most disappointing day of the Trump era as it was revealed just how extreme these justices are. They are just as far right as were some of the quotes from the 1930’s such as “ might makes right” and “ I am the state!”. That such thinking would ever be connected to a former president named Trump, was beyond my imagination. The fact that he is the inevitable nominee for the third time is astounding.
Thank God also for Robbie Kaplan and E. Jean Carroll who annihilated him in New York civil court. Bravo to New York. Also to Attorney General.Letitia James. (Leticia James will be prosecuting Steve Bannon on May 28 by the way). New York is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the entire country. I think the message to Trump is we don’t want your stinking campaign in our state.
Indeed Louise. And now the entire world knows who he is. Brava New York for keeping the heat on and coming to fruition with these lawsuits. It is not easy. I remember Leticia James saying last year in a presser: "I'm not afraid of him. He's not going to bully me." (paraphrasing - and she knew the threats don-Don was surely going to make to her and her staff).
It’s really hard to describe anyone being worse than Trump. But he was the mastermind who put Trump in office in 2016 with the help of Cambridge and Letica, Mark Zuckerberg giving over 75 million Facebook accounts without the owners’ knowledge or permission and the Russian agents who ran the API between Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Cambridge Analytica’s CEO Testified in Congress that this was Steve Bannon’s brain child and his baby and 100% of the data went to Trump’s campaign. He still has it by the way. Steve Bannon does his war room podcast six days a week, using his psychological ops Military training to spill for propaganda to these 75 million Republicans. He tells them over and over that “Trump won.” We are now in 2024 and have had more than 68 lawsuits with all of them lost by Trump. Bannon’s MO is if you say something often enough people will believe it. It’s too bad he can’t be facing trial for colluding with Russian computer science experts to steal Facebook accounts. Instead, he’s in trial for his alleged fraudulent theft of citizens funds at the fraudulent build the wall scheme at the southern border. And he still is on appeal for refusing to meet with the January 6 committee. So he’s a bad character. And he’s smarter than Trump.
Oh my, George T. I did not know this about OSS Hitler. The Steve Bannon war rooms podcast is from Steve Bannon’s psy ops military training. He still has the same Cambridge Analytica data set set that was used for Trump in 2016 - The same Republicans, who unknowingly gave their Facebook data and identities to Cambridge Analytica, the company, Steve Bannon owned in England. Mark Zuckerberg testified about Facebook’s role in giving over the 75 million accounts and he told the congressional committee that he couldn’t remember anything. One of the most watched YouTube videos on the Internet is when the Senator questioning him over and over when he kept saying, he didn’t remember, finally said, “and I assume if I asked you where he stayed last night, you wouldn’t remember?” (Not an exact quote, but everyone in the room left because they knew Mark was lying about not remembering). Facebook was off the hook. Cambridge Analytica was off the hook. The CA CEO Who testified in the hearing said “every bit of Trump‘s data came from us. This was Steve Bannon‘s baby. And the computer engineers running the API between us, Cambridge, Analytica, and Facebook were Russian computer scientists.”
So this begs the question: if I can find this published information on YouTube, how could Robert Mueller have concluded that Russia had known involvement in Trump‘s election? Did Putin have to drive the tank with flags on top saying vote for Trump? The Russian scientist were not Russian American citizens. They were Russian citizens working out of London. What kind of deal did the Cambridge Analytica Have with the DOJ that he would testify and not be charged? Steve Bannon got his millions of dollars back from Cambridge Analytica when they closed down. He also got a cushy job with Trump, Then left to go hobnob with Orban to ruin Hungary; Then got indicted by the DOJ for the wallet, the border scam; then was pardon by Trump on his last day in office when I understand or the rumor is that allegedly Giuliani was collecting $1 million fees for pardons. Then he was the subpoenaed by the January 6 committee and refused to go, he was charged and his appealing that. So now comes New York saying we had New York citizens investing in that scam at the border and user are going to be going to trial May 28 so finally we’ll see some measure of justice (But not for the treason he’s guilty oven my view) and again it comes from New York, which hallelujah God bless New York!! Last time Biden was elected. My theme song was “Happy”
by Pharrell Williams. This time when we reelect Biden on November 5, my theme song will be ‘New York, New York’ by Frank Sinatra:)
Robbie Kaplan is amazing! So is Letitia James. Why are most of the heroes women: Sally Yates, Marie Yovanovitch, Fiona Hill, Dr. Richardson, Dr. Freeman.....Now Robbie Kaplan and Letitia James. Faini Willis made some serious judgement errors or she would be in that list, too. There IS Colonel Vindman but the guys seem to be few and far between.
The Georgia state case involves defendants mostly neither elected nor appointed and could hardly be construed as involving official acts of an elected officer. Nothing he did related to his current term of office, rather his candidacy for re-election. The Florida case, except for it's presiding justice, is about activities occurring AFTER he left office. These crimes should stand up to an immunity defense. I didn't hear anything about immunity for activities occurring after he returned to being private citizen. On the other hand, as quoted so often heretofore, justice delayed is justice denied and he is being successful in his quest to delay, delay, delay.
Thank you for clarifying the depths of my feeling. What the MAGA folks on the Supreme Court did today was a travesty and a farce, but it was not a surprise. This week they held two hearings that seemed to show how much this court continues to find ways to punish women and protect Trump. Their main method is by questioning the meaning of words. This court continues to be one the biggest threats to American freedom and democracy. They seem to have no concern for precedent or crime, and certainly nothing about equality and justice.
For me, the worst part was a glib remark by one of the men — I could’t tell which because I heard it on the radio. — After the government lawyer said that the charges against the former president came from a legally appointed special prosecutor, who had to get the approval of a grand jury, and that the judgment of guilt or innocence would come for a jury of 12 Americans. The justice, scoffed and said something like “We all know a good prosecutor can get anything he wants form a grand jury, and they know how to work a jury.” In other words, he was saying that the entire justice system is a joke that no one should believe is fair, so how can we ever hold a president accountable? It’s all political.
So here, a justice on the Supreme Court is tossing out the legitimacy of the entire American legal system. Only they are in a position to decide what is legal and what is not, and they are not about to do that for a while, especially if it involves their wive’s favorite candidate.
My fear is that these people feel that it part of their duty to America to make sure that they will get to choose the winners of the 2024 election. They have already shown by how they allow voter suppression and gerrymandering that they don’t really feel that elections should be free and fair. WE the People, have to hold them accountable. We are seeing a fascist theocracy appear before our eyes.
I think that was Alito, who's had a bee in his bonnet this entire process. IMO, he is ideology-driven and has no intention of impartiality. He just uses double-speak to appear to be weighing the issues. What a smug SCOTUS (un) Justice.
The right wing Christian nationalist evangelical movement has been working toward establishing a fascist theocracy for over 50 years. Now they have their Orange Jesus, And there is to install him in the White House as they did in 2016. His job in return for that installation was to stack the Supreme Court. He wants to be the fascist dictator. We must stop him and them: the puppet masters who would first do away with civil rights for women, then blacks, and lastly our LGBTQ citizens. I’m taking heart with the fact that E. Jean Carroll and Robbie, Kaplan, and annihilated him. The New York cases are very powerful in the public eye. He now is known as a rapist, a fraud, and he is broke. He is also broken: with the onset of dementia, unable to form sentences or recall, simple words. He is now forced to sit through a criminal trial, where a gag order has been imposed. I don’t think he’s going to make it through the entire trial without some kind of physical or mental collapse. Then justice will have been served.
Everyone must remember that none of these crooks will live forever and quite a few are up in years. Heaven forbid that Trump lasts as long as Kissinger!
Thank you, Joyce. I find it hard to believe the conservative/reactionary justices even care about the rule of law. These are dispiriting, disheartening, and disillusioning times.
This court has become “The Lowest Court in the Land”
Dan “Swing low stench justices
coming to muddy immunity
Swing low stench justices
Mucking the law with impunity.”
Nice Dan! Thats going to stick.
Thanks Dan, the off topic quality of the discussion by 4 justices certainly earned this title. The supreme court usually confines itself to a narrow scope of the case before them. These justices were not interested in whether the president can sic a mob on the capital... they wanted to wander around in the future of what could possibly happen bad for a president--not the constitution, not the people. This change in the supreme court's role may ultimately be as bad for us as their questions seemed to indicate for the rule of law.
Joyce please do not drop this subject.
Eloquently stated!
They do not. They have been placed on the court upon the advice of The Federalist Society who has their own vision for a 19th century country or the Viktor Orban model of governance.
I would be sickened to hear Chief Justice Roberts offer up another opinion like “corporations are people.”
The federalist society should be designated as a terrorist organization.
They are certainly a threat to our country.
Amen!
I don’t share the ominous opinions about this court because Donald Trump will not be elected President, the Democrats will regain the House and the Senate but, only by a simple majority because they won’t be able to achieve the 2/3 majority to sustain a conviction for impeachment of the Supreme Court’s conservatives until the next election cycle.
We have been bombarded by poll, after poll, after poll, after poll almost daily for the past several years because the mass media needed something to justify advertising costs, increasing circulation and keeping eyeballs on their video programming.
The mass media has highlighted and stressed reporting that Biden or Trump won with 85% or 95% of the votes.
I believe that the more important numbers, which were neglected and not reported by the media are the total population of all citizens of the state, the total number of eligible qualified electors (registered voters)in the state, the number and percentage of citizens of a state that actually are registered voters of both parties of a state, and the total number of citizens of a particular state of both parties of a state that actually voted in their primary election(s).
Finally, what is the percentage of registered voters of the total population of a state that actually voted, 2% in Iowa, approximately 10% in New Hampshire and 5% South Carolina.
Just recently in Pennsylvania, out of a total population of 13 million, 8.7 million are eligible voters, 4 million Democrats, 3.5 million Republicans and 1 million Independents, who are not permitted to vote in Pennsylvania’s closed primary election.
The total number of votes cast by both parties was 1.9 million votes, which excluded 1million independent voters for a total percentage of 4.6% of eligible voters and 3% of the total population of the state.
I would submit that after several years of constant polling, the best that can be shown is that on average, somewhere between statistically insignificant 3%, and barely significant 10%, would best describe voter turnout for the 2024 national primary election cycle for all states.
Trump and his Republican sycophantic allies and their protection racket schemes, and lying, fraudulent financial schemes, and the hyperbole by the FOX Republican news channel and others, have barely moved their Republican voter involvement needle.
I would submit that in the best interests of our country the foregoing is the true headline that needs to be published.
I pray your prediction of President, House, Senate all Democratic. I hope for the official demise of the Republican Party which isn't anything but a Trump-fearful group of cowards.
Dear Dorothy K;
The Republicans aren't the only cowards. Why is it that not one Democrat filed a criminal complaint against any Republican that conspired 18 USC 371 and/or aided and abetted 18 USC 2, to overthrow the the government on Jan. 6, not one? Saving lives and influencing destiny one day at a time. Karl
My concern is that after all is said and done, and evaluating numbers one way or another up the kazoo, the popular vote which should be the deciding factor, can be undone by the electoral college. The latter has to be GONE!
Dear Ms. Stevens;
That would require a constitutional amendment, currently that would require affirmation by 37 states. In the meantime we need to turn out the vote of Democrats and Independents, and not allow 3% to 10% of the population's qualified electors choose for us. This will initiate the phase one of the eradication of the largest criminal enterprise in the country.
Let's hope your estimated 2/3 majority to sustain impeachment is wrong.
Article I Section 3 ",,,And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the Members present." That could be an arrangement whereby the Democrats ask enough Republican members of the Senate to go fishing so the Democrats have two thirds of members present, but don't hold your breath.
Awomen!
You are so right. Citizens United was the truest signal of the dark, undemocratic and truly stupid decisions we could expect from this Court.
Precisely!
The Conservative Justices do care, in so much as it affects what they want and how they want things to go... Those who elected to even hear this case knew they were throwing DJT a lifeline... Frankly it's time to end Lifetime Appointments...
Agree but need something more immediate, they will destroy us and that seems to be the goal.
Today's SCOTUS news was especially sickening and gut-wrenching.
I find it terrifying...for real.
Defund that court, remove them from our government, they only seek to serve themselves and those like them, I am so angry.
Amber, that would be unconstitutional. Wait...
EXACTLY, if they give immunity because it is/would be impossible for a President to do the job of Presidenting then Biden could throw the supreme court away. I don't think a non criminal President would need immunity but we aren't talking about a non criminal, they haven't mentioned his name but they are making these considerations because of the criminal under federal indictments many times over.
Yup, we're on the same page!
I do not believe they care about anything except for their personal agenda. Democracy doesn't seem to matter at all.
I think that someone should pose the question to them, "What if the president were to insist that the members of the court be executed? Would he be able to do that as a hypothetical?" Like forget him executing Biden, or trying to, how about him executing them. Someone has to make clear that they are giving Trump permission to do this, and Biden too for that matter, if he can do anything. Secondly, this is going on because the American people do not go out to march on this. I understand the imperative of Gaza, but why is this any less an imperative and something to occupy campuses on? Does the youth of the land understand what is at stake, or for that matter, most of the people? People should be in front of the courts protesting Clarence Thomas being a part of the discussion, and they should be in front of Congress insisting that they impeach Thomas. It doesn't matter if they cannot pass it, it would wake the people of the land up to the need to do it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!!!
Also love that: "Conservative judge J. Michael Luttig noted: “The Court and the parties discussed everything but the specific question presented.”)"
I love that the newest Supreme, Ketanji Brown Jackson, distilled the core of the immunity case as described by Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe who said, “Jackson got to the point, ‘All we have to do is do our job, and our job is to decide the case before us, and on the facts before us, there is no plausible case for immunity.’
good label- they really aren't "conservative" but right-wing reactionaries close to, if not, MAGA.
Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and especially Clarence-on-the-take Thomas are American Disgraces.
Vote only Blue.
Retain control of the Senate.
Retake control of the House.
Re-elect President Biden.
Afterwards, expand the number of SCOTUS to 13.
Then impeach thomas. Lock Ginni up. She should be an indicted co conspirator.
Since they believe they are above all law it won't happen.
Doesn’t matter what they believe. We believe in justice and democracy. It will come.
While I remain hopeful (most of the time) it's been a discouraging week.
Authoritarians want to fatigue us into “crying uncle”. Apathy towards politics is a soft voter suppression strategy. It might be why 50% of the population doesn’t vote at all.
I know what they want and I'm not crying uncle, some days are so damn difficult to even read the news because it's more of the same. The criminals are doing their thing and too many (like SCOTUS) are making it easier for them and not protecting democracy. I always vote and always encourage others to do the same. It's on all of us to encourage people that every vote counts and to vote responsibly. Someone I listen to on the radio says "despair is not an option" ...not always easy though.
Absolutely!
I am now calling them MAGA Justices! Yes, it is imperative that we vote & get others to do so, too.
Exactly. This is patent and a "must do". 💯🎯
I didn't think there was urgency to expand the court, now it's imperative.
The four you mentioned by name then need to be impeached; the day after inauguration!!
Also Robert’s….
Who’s the last Supreme Court Justice to be impeached?
This court and the way they seem to allow Trump and the GOP States to get away with harm they have done e and will do to all Americans is so discouraging. I don’t get my hopes up at all anymore. The legal system drags its feet so slowly making the outrageous become neutral. One day SCOTUS will rue the day they bent over backwards to this petty man.
Exactly! They’ll regret making DJT KING!
Cuz he wont hesitate to throw them under the bus after he gets what he wants.
Watchandlearn -- And will be impossible to unseat once he gets to the throne. This is an entire new concept of governance I cannot conceive would be appropriate. I think Canada would gain a lot of new citizens, and perhaps consider building a wall along our northern border.
While making Biden king now. I don’t think they’ll do it.
Biden wouldn't do the king thing even if the SC gave him the power to do so, because he's a decent, compassionate human being.
Or in Trump's view, a loser.
Our lives will be worthless if he becomes king so it's moot. IMHO
Perhaps Dreeben should have tried to make it real: if a President decided he had a disagreeable supreme court Justice he could do something unpleasant to happen to him and his family.
Biden wouldn't, but damn sure an unfettered Drumpf would.
We ought to make that bastard revert to his actual family name.
They will destroy our democracy and us IF WE LET THEM.
We all will
Thank you, Joyce.
Funny how SCOTUS is so focused on their place in history and so little on more humbly resolving the particular problem before them.
Question: has any lawyer appearing before this court had the gumption to apply for Justice Thomas’ recusal on the basis of his wife’s well-publicised efforts to overturn the last presidential election? Or is it all just handwringing from the sidelines?
Ken, you have asked some interesting questions. As far as handwringing goes, I agree wholeheartedly because I've also wondered about that, too. It seems to me that SCOTUS is making a mockery of this whole process, all because of their adoration of their king.
Will we ever know all the layers in the trump criminal cake? What is it about this person?
He's for sale and everyone of these "conservative " justices know someone with too much money for our own good.
Jen, I agree.
Sad isn't it?
Yes, it is. And very frustrating.
Dianne- Your word “mockery” is so appropriate. This is exactly what I concluded after sitting in the supermarket parking lot for a a good half hour cringing over the back-and-forth between the far-right justices and t-rump’s lawyer. All the “bobbing and weaving” to feed him answers made me sick.
Nancy, OMG! I thought I was the only one who gets so affected by this.
Sometimes, when I'm watching discussions about All Things Trump, it frustrates me to the point that I find myself changing channels or just turning off my TV.
I wish that WE were the ones who choose SCOTUS members with our votes. It's way, way, way too political while giving these nine people that much power!
I way prefer Joyce’s letter to the news. She really nailed the tone of the far right justices and the sensible women Justices,. Comey-Barrett surprised me.
I agree with you. Joyce has a way of "calming down" the horrible situation we're in. That may sound odd, but I couldn't think of another way to express that.
Sometimes, I feel sorry for Comey-Barrett because of all the pressure she's under. Trump appointed her, so maybe she feels she owes her loyalty to him. Not as extreme as Judge Loose Cannon, thank goodness. But Amy seems more settled now that she's been one of the Supremes for a few years now
We'll need to wait and see how this all works out. Hopefully, they'll rule against Trump. How can they NOT do that? If they say it's okay, then from now on, a President has carte blanch --- period. He or she can order right wing extremists to kill anyone who's a Democrat or start a war because they don't like something that a leader from another country says or does. The possibilities are endless.
We’ll said!
Can't trust Comey-Barrett, though. I have friends in her Catholic cult and they serve a woman denigrating god.
Twas so nauseating, these InJustices' unbelievable contortions for trump. A 6th grader could see through their illogical arguments.
Sorry Dianne Loftus I disagree. Not exactly adoration of that guy though I understand an impulse to see things that way. Adoration of themselves is at base of their every impulse in this and so many other cases. “Originalists” my eye. I think that clatch operates mostly from a need to be right and beyond reproach and tippy top dogs in their worlds and the public’s. That is, they operate mostly from profound self-serving arrogance. And merely see the former president as a ready means to fulfil that personal agenda. Rather low ke what drives TFG’s snake oil salesman modus operandi.
Marion, it's okay to disagree. At this point, I feel as if I'm going crazy because a lot of this doesn't make sense. If it weren't for Joyce, this REALLY wouldn't make sense.
Yes, it's obvious that most of SCOTUS members believe they can walk on water.
Ken, it would seem at some point soon we should begin to talk about impeachment of SCOTUS Justices!
Well, yes! Certainly, Clarence Thomas raises questions - and I say this in all seriousness, having done my time as a lawyer from another place. His position on any court dealing with these constitutional issues, let alone an ultimate court of appeal like the High Court of Australia or UK Supreme Court, would be completely untenable. In either country you could be absolutely certain that he would not be sitting on these cases. Most likely without the need for any litigant to move for his recusal. And it would be highly probable that he would have resigned from the bench altogether - for the good of the institution, irrespective of his personal political beliefs, or whether in fact he and his spouse's pillow talk centred on excluding Biden from office, or other, happier things.
Never going to happen, you still need 2/3 of the senate to convict, I’m 77 and if I live to 100 I don’t see that happening.
Dick, I'm a few months behind you in age, and I feel the same way you do.
JohnM upstate NY mentioned talking about impeaching some SCOTUS Justices. If only we could . . . . .
Appears to be hand wringing from the sidelines. Sadly.
OMG, your discussion is so polite!!! After the nine black robes (8 because Thomas already has his mind made up) were given a simple case to preserve the rule of law (well argued in detail in the lower courts) on an existential threat to democracy did everything to obscure the simple historical decision they needed to make for the country with legal sophistry. They are truly a national disgrace. Joyce, don't you ever get angry?
"OMG, your discussion is so polite!!! [...] They are truly a national disgrace. Joyce, don't you ever get angry?"
The calm analysis and political level-headedness is precisely the reason I love coming here every day. There are plenty of partisan-leftie websites and forums where people do yell and scream at the bastardry of the ruling class, but those are far less interesting to read, and 300 angry comments can be very boring to wade through (DKOS is one that can be very tiresome).
So I like the cool around this place! 😄
IanWilliams -- I agree. This has become a haven for me, especially after hearing that three-hour horror today. I keep asking myself "What were they thinking ?"
I agree. Many people here are more knowledgeable than I, and are better at expressing themselves in writing. I don't like yelling and screaming. It accomplishes nothing and is useless. Better to seek knowledge.
Jeoffrey, I agree. We can see through Thomas, so when it comes time for the Supremes to make their final decision, they can save a few minutes of their "precious" time by not even asking him how he votes.
Meanwhile, I've never met Joyce, but even so, she seems kind and polite. As for her getting angry, she doesn't need to worry about that, because all of this stuff makes me angry enough for the both of us. Maybe you, too!
I just can't understand how ANYONE, no matter which party they vote for, isn't concerned about our democracy. I often wonder whether those people are taking this threat seriously. Heaven forbid, if Trump wins, they'll soon have a big wake-up call.
Well, to tell the truth I love and admire Joyce! Also I admire her bravery for living in Alabama and loving it, elitist Californian that I am. I was not really serious, just trying to add a little levity to a really sickening and horrible day at the Court.
I admire Joyce, too, and have always looked forward to seeing her on MSNBC because I appreciated her insight, wisdom and experience in a way that viewers could understand. (Just like what we're privileged to read about daily.) I can't remember how I found out about Civil Discourse, but I am REALLY glad that I found it!
At the risk of sounding too nosey, what kinds of topics do you decide for each of your substacks? How long have you been doing that? Sorry for asking these questions, but before Civil Discourse, I had never heard of such a thing.
Have a good weekend.
If this decision goes where it looks like it's going, we will at least be easily able to identify the date of the fall of the constitutional democratic republic: April 25, 2024. That'll make it easier for we historians.
TC, Respectfully, If we more aggressively mobilize to ensure Democratic victories up and down the ballot, April 25, 2024 could mark the beginning of the end of the MAGA effort to precipitate both a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a Presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual.
From your lips to goddess' ear.
TC, I prefer to believe our words (and actions) capable of sending ripples of influence conceivably gaining prominence in public dialogue and contributing to shaping public policy.
Vote 🗳️ BLUE 🔵🟦💙🇺🇸💪💪🏻💪🏽💪🏿
Indeed... "mad props" to your thinking here Barbara... this is, in point of fact, the true bottom line. We MUST mobilize and Vote ALL "Trump apologizers and lemmings" OUT.💯🎯
And not just on the federal level. Corruption here in Ohio is at an unprecedented level.
Sometimes it's the most sickening thing, the straw that breaks the camels back that is the motive to truly standup and do something. Their overturning Roe certainly didn't make us go quietly into the night - it became go time and now we must keep going!!
Pat, Precisely! Accordingly, we can’t allow the conservative Justices’ willful ploys to protect Trump from legal scrutiny and accountability to go unanswered.
I hope they will...but exactly how can we do that. Waiting till election day is too late.
Betty, For some time, experts have claimed that the one branch of government that seemingly has held is the judiciary. If the conservative justices succeed in preventing the J6 trial from proceeding before the election, we no longer can cling to that claim. Accordingly, every day leading up to the election we will need to drive home the consequences of this breakdown in the balance of powers our Founders had established to protect us from the excesses of any one branch.
WE the People must strive for, demand, and obtain Balance of Powers!
Guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution! We must demand it of our elected officials AND vote for only candidates who respect it!
Of course, these justices are appointed technically to life-time jobs. Believe me-the Federalist Society has tremendous powers over these conservatives! Dangerously dangling over the political scene within nation! Justices are “members” and support this group! Proud of it since the Federalist Society got them their attention and jobs!
Barbara, your responses/posts provide common senses. ACTION, and for me, hope. Thank you 🙏🏼
Brava Barbara!
@ Barbara Joe. Potentially 13 million unregistered people trend heavily Democratic. FT6 uses data mining to identify them. 60% of unregistered voters have never been asked to register and are eager to hear from us.
. https://www.fieldteam6.org/actions
Daniel, While I regularly receive lists from FT6, I’m glad you keep posting to arouse interest from other readers.
Need volunteers if we want to win.
Daniel, While I am aware of the need, given the demands on my time, I continually recalibrate my priorities to determine where my strengths can do the most good.
sadly, cleaning up the judicial consequences of the would-be-dictator's prior term of office will still require retirements, deaths and/or impeachments, all of which are somewhere in the indefinite future.
@Just Sayin’, Because courts are subject to people’s belief in their legitimacy, I am becoming increasingly confident that, with Democratic majorities, everyday people will be poised to prevail upon reluctant office holders to expand both the Supreme Court and the lower courts. Besides, unlike 1869, when there were 9 SCOTUS Justices and 9 U.S. Circuit Courts, 1 Justice assigned to each, currently, there are 13 U.S. Circuit Courts. Expanding SCOTUS would allow each Justice, once again, to follow the cases in a specific region.
I think, based on the SCOTUS behavior today - it's to late to do that. Sorry to say. I wish it were not so...oh how I ever don't want this to be the case. This is the beginning of the end as far as I can see.
Betty, Respectfully, I’m baffled by your response. It suggests that Democratic races up and down the ballot hinge solely on whether or not Trump is held criminally accountable for January 6th.
As an alternative, I suggest, as a start, we ensure we are sufficiently educated regarding both what the current Administration has accomplished and also how it plans to continue working for us over the next 4 years. Next, we seek every opportunity to spread the word.
Barbara, sadly. I agree with Betty about it being too late. I hope I am wrong but it’s difficult to see Roberts standing up to counter to his extremist counterparts.
Joyce wrote: “It’s also about the legacy of the Roberts Court and whether history will view the already unpopular Justices as the Court that gave away democracy.”
Unfortunately history is written by the victors. If the Roberts Court becomes the Court that “gave away democracy” it will be whitewashed by the Christian Fascist if (when?) they take over the government of our country. Roberts and his cronies will then be portrayed as patriots or some other bogus personification.
I’m not even sure our upcoming November elections will be viewed as legit by the Christian Fascists justices on the Roberts Court unless Trump is the winner. Based on how they are handling the presidential immunity case before them it’s easy to see they would be motivated to find a way to circumvent the vote and declare trump the winner in November.
The failure of Justice Thomas to recuse when recusal is so obviously called for taints any decision the Court teaches. They do not operate as a court of law, but as a political body. They spent their time focusing on everything but the actual indictment before them. It was embarrassingly transparent that they want to delay this case.
Susan, This was their game plan when Jack Smith asked for cert. and this is exactly why Jack Smith asked for cert. he wanted to smoke them out and he did. This is a sham Court. I’m hoping for demonstrations this spring and summer. Joe Biden is going to be reelected, we are going to take back the house, and we will have a blue bicameral Congress. Ginny Thomas needs to be indicted. Clarence would then be forced to resign.
I wish that would happen soon so we could have a nomination for a decent replacement for Clarence before November.
Agree, Valere. We win in November and take back the House and Senate. Then the first thing Smith does is push for trial against Trump. Second, we go after Leonard Leo, The Heritage Foundation people, and Clarence & Ginni Thomas. We expand the Court with lots of women and those of color, however, Joyce, Barb, and or Jamie Raskin could sit there, as well.
Agree Marlene. I think the DOJ will indict some Congress folks for their roles. In my humble opinion, I think that Mike Johnson is trying to cushion himself against some of that by trying to pretend he’s a human being with releasing aid for Ukraine and stopping our government from shutting down. He was one of the architects of January 6, but there are many more to go after to give a very strong message to Congress. That needs cleaned up. Absolutely Ginny Thomas. Leo is very slippery.
Definitely! Let’s not forget that Johnson feels he’s the new Moses.🙄
Leo is like an eel...keep your eyes on him. He has yet to be brought before any committee to answer for all the underhanded things he has done. He is definitely a critical player all of this...if it ends as intended, we may never know...there is is the crux of the matter. Just how deep is he in.? I think he's in as deep as possible.
I didn’t even know his name until a few months ago - Learned it on this Substack.
Read up on him, he's been at this for years...literally. Now here we are having to live with what he and Alito, et al have conspired to do to the women of this country, among all the other things he's done behind the scenes. He is NOT any type of government employee, and he must be investigated to determine all he has done...it will be shocking.
How about all three ? What a refreshing suggestion !
I have to believe Jack Smith has a “go bag” packed for any eventuality.
Thank you for this, Valere. Your acumen in this area is formidable, to say the least💯. I have come to the assessment that Jack is a very savvy "Legal Chess player" with several "cloaked" advanced decision-tree moves planned ahead. This is all very plausible and a viable way to end-around this abomination of a Trump-appointed dominant SCOTUS.
Hi Marc, many more with more acumen than I have on this Substack. You are absolutely spot on about Jack. He knew in advance when he requested cert what he was doing - Jack doesn’t do anything without a reason.
Our job is to elect blue up down and sideways to position ourselves with a blue reelected president and blue bicameral Congress so we can put protections in place and get our civil rights restored. We can (will) do this!! 💙
"Joe Biden is going to be re-elected, we are going to take back the house, and we will have a blue bicameral Congress. Ginny Thomas needs to be indicted. Clarence would then be forced to resign."
As has been discussed previously, even if the Democrats hold every Senate seat they have to contest, and flipped every Republican senate seat being contested, the Dems can't get to two-thirds, and barely 60.
I dearly hope Biden is re-elected, and the House returns to Democrat control, but the Senate looks a bridge way too far, because of the horrendous electoral map this cycle. Four more years of deadlock and GOP skulduggery, and a politicised Supreme Court.
IanWilliams -- I suggest seriously supporting Jon Tester's Senate re-election in Montana. His opponent, Sheehy, has very scary backing, and his different stories of how he was wounded in the arm should delete him from consideration. Tester is a mainstay we shouldn't to without.
Agree.
Yes Ian, you have posed your opinion about our success at a bicameral Congress. I’m majority this November is not out of reach. And we need about four cycles (indeed, that would be four cycles, four years per cycle ) to return our democracy to its previous levels. It’s not going to happen overnight and I’ve never said it would. I’ve simply pointed to the fact that we need to.begin by gaining a blue bicameral in November and reelect Joe Biden. We can disagree, but I’m holding to the thought that that’s what we’re going to accomplish. I’m not suggesting we need a 2/3 majority we need a majority. We need to indict Ginny Thomas for Clarence to resign. He can’t stay in the office if she is indicted That needs to happen sooner than later
@ Ian. Murkowski and Collins are RINOS to MAGATs.
Thomas shouldn't have ever been on the court, I well remember how he lied during his confirmation hearings. Unfortunately, Biden whom I adore what he is doing and has done for our country was instrumental in appointing him...everybody makes mistakes...I guess.
Infuriating.
We have to get Biden back in the White House. Then SCOTUS can delay all they want. It won't matter at that point.
We absolutely must retain the Senate as well. In this environment I can see zero judicial nominations approved by a Republican Senate. They might even refuse to consider cabinet nominations.
Because it's clear to me that Republicans fundamentally do not accept the concept of Democrats exercising political power.
TBH the Democratic Senate has played along with this, they've been far more passive than necessary. Why are there any judicial vacancies on the docket? Why haven't they held hearings on the corruption in the SC? They're as useless as the House of Lords.
Absolutely Warren.
Elections have consequences! Remember IF Hillary Clinton had been elected, those three (3) Trump nominated justices would never be PLUS we would not have lost the Right to Abortion! So VOTE to hold on to OUR Democracy!
True but irrelevant. We have to deal with the situation as it exists on Earth 1, where trump won, not Earth 2 where President Hillary is wrapping up her 2nd term.
Let there be no doubt: the fix is in for Trump. I listened at the beach, sitting in my Surf Truck, while my buddies paddled out and I sat for 2+ hours, livid, furious, outraged, terrified. Friends came over to ask if I was ok. No, I said, not ok. Not good. Our democracy is being scuttled by 5 or 6 unelected ideologues, including a corrupt one — Justice (ugh…should not have to use that word before his name) Thomas — who REFUSED to discuss the facts surrounding the events of J6, the facts arising out of the ONLY attempt to overthrow the government. Let there be no doubt: the fix is in for Trump.
Here it is. They already know how they’re going to rig this case. “Every time Dreeben tried to respond to questions they asked him and began to score points, they seemingly lost interest, never permitting him to get in a full answer.”
I so agree...you are so on target!
"Is a former president entitled to immunity for criminal acts committed while president, and if so, what is the scope of that immunity?"
Never has it been more apparent that in the end it is the moral character of those with power that is most important. When we allow liars, bribe takers, drunken ragers, we get judges who don’t judge… they simply stir up mud to hide decisions which smear legitimate questions…
“Alito suggests there are not enough legal safeguards in place to protect presidents against malicious prosecution if they don’t have some form of immunity. He tells Dreeben that the grand jury process isn’t much of a protection because prosecutors, as the saying goes, can indict a ham sandwich.” Mud or mustard thrown at the wall. A Justice who does not believe in our judicial system. Depressing as hell!
The Defendant/appellant came before the Court with a singular claim: ABSOLUTE immunity for any and all acts performed whilst in office...that's it. And where did at least four Justices go with that claim? "What-iffing" and "whatabouting" acts past and future of OTHER presidents, for god's sake. It's almost as if tRump was a spectator or bystander, and not the principal focus of arguments. And slimy Alito, virtually asking John Sauer for tRump what HE would settle for from this Court.
Well, I say how about asking what we the public would settle for? Does this country want immunity from criminal acts for its president? How about "partial" immunity? Does that work for us? Or, how about the very basic and foundational principle that No Man Is Above The Law...can we all agree upon THAT as a working hypothesis for constitutional government? What say you, Justices?
Fab post Lance. Exactly - I thought the same when he asked John Sauer what he would settle for. It is exactly being a surrogate for Trump, As though they are kissing Trump’s ring in absentia. Why have a pretend court session at all? Just ask Trump what he wants and write it up.
Well said Lance.
Our Supreme Court conservative justices are Law and BS!
Great idea.
Indeed, Lynn Geri,
If the elected president had a moral fiber, and a core, there wouldn’t need to be special protections. Biden doesn’t need these kinds of special protections.
Our decision is going to be which one of these pretenders do we impeach first? I’m hoping Ginny Thomas is indicted so Clarence will step down. Then we can impeach Ito after we have Joe Biden re-elected
to office, and a bicameral blue Congress. Let’s do this!💙
Spot-on 💯🎯. So anxious and fed-up to see justice properly served. 🙏
Marc, If you harken back to the verdict in the verdict in the E. Jean Carroll case, you will see that Justice *has* been properly served. An 80-year-old woman broke his back. She and her attorney annihilated him. In the eyes of the public, he became a rapist, a fraud who had no money and had lied about his money because he didn’t have enough cash to pay the appeal bond. There will be an appeal, but he’s going to lose it Robbie Kaplan made sure that her case was appeal proof. The citizens of the United States know who he is thanks to E. Jean Carroll. He is annihilated. He is broken. So in that sense, justice has been served. Everything from that point on has been downhill for Trump and it’s going to get worse.
He’s going to lose everything. He’s going to lose his properties in New York, he will not be able to do business in New York. He’s going to lose the election. His health is gone. According to a number of psychiatrist who have watched video video of him in depth, he is in mid to late stage dementia, and is probably sundowning. We Americans with our idea of “justice “want to see a guilty verdict that puts him in jail. But think about what justice means, and if it means losing everything as he has, take a bit of heart, knowing that justice has been served. Our job is to make sure we react Joe Biden, and we vote blew up down and sideways to gain a blue bicameral Congress to restore our civil rights that have been lost and we need to think about doing some impeachments on the Supreme Court. Trump is broken. I don’t think there are many people who are more aware of and disturbed by the egregious behavior of Trump than I. The fact that he could organize an army of thugs to take away, our votes is nearly beyond comprehension. We are still missing more than 100 classified documents, and those could have been marketed to a very dangerous dictator. Our intelligence community very likely knows exactly what happened to those documents. And if our intelligence community knows it, so does Joe Biden because there is nobody more astute with intelligence than Joe Biden. The fact that we have conservative justices who are willing to continue to sell their souls to keep Trump out of prison isn’t surprising. Their role has been a set up to take away the right self Women first, then Black, then anyone in the LGBTQ community and they’ve been doing this since Reagan was in office. We have , our work cut out for us beyond reelecting Joe and getting the blue bicameral Congress. I think Joyce knows how incredibly important it is for a group such as the folks on this Substack to continue as a community to reverse the egregious harm that has been done to us. I hope you are one of the community who stay beyond the election and understand that we’re just warming up:) 💙
By the way, people I like to read on this Substack are Laura McElroy, Bryan McCowan and Ira Lechner. They are kind of like the weathervane for me so I can tell what’s coming down the highway.
Thanks for your informative post, Valere.
Concur completely... nicely and objectively stated too. 💯🎯👌
I can't fathom that the Supreme Court is considering granting immunity. This is a dark day. With my 66th birthday coming up in a couple of weeks, I see the world burning down.
Happy coming up 66th birthday!
We will all live to fight another day and to defeat this blight on Nov 5!
We have work to do! Lots of work after the election:) 💙
I'm thinking that I won't be around. I don't want to live in this rotten ass world anymore.
Selfish of me to ask Charlie, but could you please help us by writing postcards to re-elect Trump? You only have to sign your first name and the hand-write the prewritten message.
send an email to: Tony the Democrat
postcards@tonythedemocrat.org
You will receive a reply that walks you through the process of signing up to write postcards. You need to purchase postcards and stamps - but it's an effective way to make change.
V💙
I thought I was a fairly intelligent person, but I cannot grasp the idea of granting immunity for a criminal act, by anyone!!!!!
Exactly Susan, the justices can slap a little lipstick and eye shadow on the pig, it is still a pig...
Lynn, they need to give it a hand held mirror.
It’s ludicrous that the question even needs to be asked! What if the CEO of a corporation committed crimes while in that position? Would immunity be claimed?
I think many of the SC Justices are no longer living in reality. Unless, as many are positing, that there is a foregone outcome here.
I think there is and Leonard Leo is the snake that gave them the answer.
both. They live in Leonard Leo's world. They live separated from the real world of people. it really showed in the Idahol abortion case. The women, including Barrett, discussed real issues- ectopic pregnancy, hemorrhage. The men discussed esoteric technical issues, divorced from real people.
It’s so interesting that this hasn’t been a question before. I find it interesting that unless the justices confine their rulings to future presidents to avoid Biden’s having these opportunities they shouldn’t apply to the orange tot either.
Joyce, I have a question. If the Constitution states the neccessity of high crimes & misdemeanors for impeachment & the J6 committee & Jack Smith have shown them, how can the "originalists" decide otherwise?
Logic & the conservative judges don’t work! Seems they were looking for anything to hang their hats on to support Trump!
Yes, I know. Hence my question.
Tracy, in any other world that would be considered to be a very logical question. But in this world, with this Supreme Court, using corpus, linguistics AI to write their briefs, They aren’t making decisions at all. They’re just piling up words and data to show have enough ‘history’ quantify their briefs, not an organic thought among them. Thank Utah Republican, Senator Mike Lee’s brother, a former justice on Utah’s Supreme Court who created the artificial intelligence corpus linguistics software for the judges to use. He was the professor in the law school at BYU and got his hands on the linguistic programs from their linguistics department (they have extensive language programs and data from teaching their missionaries). The credible justices on the Supreme Court do not use the AI artificial intelligence program, but we know Alito and Thomas are using it.
Jaw-dropping but highly believable.
It was either Politico or an Atlantic publication. Fact-based and gave the locations of all the ‘workshops’ and seminars: deer Valley in Park city of course; The Greenbriar in West Virginia (all 5 stars).
One can google and gain the sordid details. As with all AI and never disappears. So whatever their trusty little fingers were typing in, their questions will be kept forever in the database. Not surprising at all that the two biggest cheaters on the bench are cheating with brief writing. So they may have thought they were doing something quick and dirty and clever; but the reality is, it’s going to bite them. It’s always always always better to go through the struggle to create your own content. Then you can copyright it. Nothing you write on the AI is able to be copyrighted and they think they’re getting away with something, but it can all be discoverable. They need to watch out for those smart Gen Z kids!!
Gen Z will run them over!
Marlene, in AI, the answers don’t matter. The questions are pertinent and they can be found so Ito and Thomas think they have confidentiality but they don’t. Whatever answers they received and have used and briefs can be searched back to find their questions. They’ve already lost credibility, but just imagine being exposed as someone who is incapable of writing a brief and sitting at the Supreme Court level. Lots of lawyers do use AI. I Personally, I organically composé everything - So if it’s a paper for publication or a white paper, it’s original work and that way I copyright it. You can’t copyright anything on AI it’s open for anyone to take. Why would anyone do that when you can simply rewrite a draft a few times? Most of the folks I know who use AI don’t have the mental ceiling or energy to research and write: it’s just a matter of doing it. But you simply can’t do original work and publish it if you use AI and that is what to me is so disingenuous about Supreme Court judges, who are simply compiling data and words. In other words, whatever they’re doing is in capable of constructing a theoretical framework and yet they’re passing it off. Indeed, Gen Z needs to get on this and expose their fingerprints for the world to see. I’ve always thought Clarence Thomas had a low mental ceiling and this almost confirms it to me. I can’t even say ‘allegedly.’
I thought judicial clerks wrote most of the briefs. Now what do THEY do if AI does the writing?
Yes, don’t even say “allegedly”. I have heard that word more times recently than I care to!
Ouchbabe... I had my suspicions.... but thank you so much, Valere, for clarifying the intellectually lame AI-based contributions to this scenario. You rock.💯
George Herbert Walker Bush appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court to replace Thurgood Marshall. Clarence Thomas couldn’t carry Thurgood Marshall’s water across the street. But Bush Senior was able to check off the boxes with his replacement choice. Thomas had no judicial background. He has a low intellectual ceiling but he’s doing his job for the puppet masters and they’re doing their job for him.
By the way, it’s taken a while, but Ketanji Brown Jackson is the real replacement for Thurgood Marshall. She has a core as did Thurgood Marshall, and she is carrying on his legacy.
Valere...so well said. Thank you for your response to Marc Bergeron.
💙 just part of this struggle we are in and it’s not going to end after we reelect Joe Biden in November. Will be together for a long time, restoring our democracy:))
Ugh
If, as I think we all suspect, SCOTUS grants Trump even limited immunity, then I fear we can no longer claim to have 3 branches of government. The Judicial Branch will have been completely subsumed by the Executive Branch and the concept of checks and balances will no longer apply to our government. Without such checks and balances the whole underpinning of our Democracy crumbles. This was a very sad day and one that, in the fullness of time, will be seen as the first nail in the coffin of Democracy in America.
We actually lost our democracy when the Supreme Court remanded Bush v. Gore, 2000 back to Florida. So we’ve lied along in this mess for almost 25 years. It’s time to impeach a few of these jokers.
@ Ann. Limited immunity. I'm not sure whether this was argued at t he DC level so by rights should have been waived. As Robert Hubbell is saying: "The hearing itself was a supreme outrage. While the reactionary majority may not adopt the most extreme version of Trump’s defense, they need not do so to grant Trump a victory. Indeed, they have already granted Trump most of what he asked for: a lengthy delay." Ian Millheiser says Republican justices, engaged in dizzying feats of reverse logic. https://www.vox.com/scotus/24140309/supreme-court-donald-trump-immunity-jack-smith
Someone mentioned "scope and course" of employment. IMHO there are probably mixed questions of law and fact. Could be a jury question. This is the kind of stuff that comes up in civil law and workers' comp all the time. "Personal" matters like trying to subvert the will of the people.
Consider the concepts of frolic and detour. Generally, a “detour” constitutes a minor departure from an employee's duties but is still considered acting within the scope of employment, whereas a “frolic” would be a major departure from the scope of employment undertaken for that employee's own benefit. I think Trump blew it by failing to address it at the DC level.
But anything goes at SCOTUS.
If Justice Thomas was a potential juror, he never would have been allowed on the jury. It is a travesty he is participating in this case.
This was the most disappointing day of the Trump era as it was revealed just how extreme these justices are. They are just as far right as were some of the quotes from the 1930’s such as “ might makes right” and “ I am the state!”. That such thinking would ever be connected to a former president named Trump, was beyond my imagination. The fact that he is the inevitable nominee for the third time is astounding.
Thankful for DA Alvin Bragg. New York’s criminal case against Trump could be the only way Trump is held accountable for criminal conduct.
Thank God also for Robbie Kaplan and E. Jean Carroll who annihilated him in New York civil court. Bravo to New York. Also to Attorney General.Letitia James. (Leticia James will be prosecuting Steve Bannon on May 28 by the way). New York is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the entire country. I think the message to Trump is we don’t want your stinking campaign in our state.
Indeed, succinctly stated. LJ is definitely a hero in my book.
New York is a hero in my book:)))
They are giving their native son his comeuppance.
During the 2016 campaign we didn't see New Yorkers cheering Trump on. To me, that was a big red flag. They knew who he was.
Indeed Louise. And now the entire world knows who he is. Brava New York for keeping the heat on and coming to fruition with these lawsuits. It is not easy. I remember Leticia James saying last year in a presser: "I'm not afraid of him. He's not going to bully me." (paraphrasing - and she knew the threats don-Don was surely going to make to her and her staff).
I cannot wait for James to tear into that pot-marked evil criminal!
It’s really hard to describe anyone being worse than Trump. But he was the mastermind who put Trump in office in 2016 with the help of Cambridge and Letica, Mark Zuckerberg giving over 75 million Facebook accounts without the owners’ knowledge or permission and the Russian agents who ran the API between Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Cambridge Analytica’s CEO Testified in Congress that this was Steve Bannon’s brain child and his baby and 100% of the data went to Trump’s campaign. He still has it by the way. Steve Bannon does his war room podcast six days a week, using his psychological ops Military training to spill for propaganda to these 75 million Republicans. He tells them over and over that “Trump won.” We are now in 2024 and have had more than 68 lawsuits with all of them lost by Trump. Bannon’s MO is if you say something often enough people will believe it. It’s too bad he can’t be facing trial for colluding with Russian computer science experts to steal Facebook accounts. Instead, he’s in trial for his alleged fraudulent theft of citizens funds at the fraudulent build the wall scheme at the southern border. And he still is on appeal for refusing to meet with the January 6 committee. So he’s a bad character. And he’s smarter than Trump.
“Bannon’s MO is if you say something often enough people will believe it.”
That is almost verbatim of what Hitler did.
“The OSS psychological profile of Hitler described his use of the big lie:
“…… people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.”
Goebbels loved that idea. And it worked.
Oh my, George T. I did not know this about OSS Hitler. The Steve Bannon war rooms podcast is from Steve Bannon’s psy ops military training. He still has the same Cambridge Analytica data set set that was used for Trump in 2016 - The same Republicans, who unknowingly gave their Facebook data and identities to Cambridge Analytica, the company, Steve Bannon owned in England. Mark Zuckerberg testified about Facebook’s role in giving over the 75 million accounts and he told the congressional committee that he couldn’t remember anything. One of the most watched YouTube videos on the Internet is when the Senator questioning him over and over when he kept saying, he didn’t remember, finally said, “and I assume if I asked you where he stayed last night, you wouldn’t remember?” (Not an exact quote, but everyone in the room left because they knew Mark was lying about not remembering). Facebook was off the hook. Cambridge Analytica was off the hook. The CA CEO Who testified in the hearing said “every bit of Trump‘s data came from us. This was Steve Bannon‘s baby. And the computer engineers running the API between us, Cambridge, Analytica, and Facebook were Russian computer scientists.”
So this begs the question: if I can find this published information on YouTube, how could Robert Mueller have concluded that Russia had known involvement in Trump‘s election? Did Putin have to drive the tank with flags on top saying vote for Trump? The Russian scientist were not Russian American citizens. They were Russian citizens working out of London. What kind of deal did the Cambridge Analytica Have with the DOJ that he would testify and not be charged? Steve Bannon got his millions of dollars back from Cambridge Analytica when they closed down. He also got a cushy job with Trump, Then left to go hobnob with Orban to ruin Hungary; Then got indicted by the DOJ for the wallet, the border scam; then was pardon by Trump on his last day in office when I understand or the rumor is that allegedly Giuliani was collecting $1 million fees for pardons. Then he was the subpoenaed by the January 6 committee and refused to go, he was charged and his appealing that. So now comes New York saying we had New York citizens investing in that scam at the border and user are going to be going to trial May 28 so finally we’ll see some measure of justice (But not for the treason he’s guilty oven my view) and again it comes from New York, which hallelujah God bless New York!! Last time Biden was elected. My theme song was “Happy”
by Pharrell Williams. This time when we reelect Biden on November 5, my theme song will be ‘New York, New York’ by Frank Sinatra:)
Robbie Kaplan is amazing! So is Letitia James. Why are most of the heroes women: Sally Yates, Marie Yovanovitch, Fiona Hill, Dr. Richardson, Dr. Freeman.....Now Robbie Kaplan and Letitia James. Faini Willis made some serious judgement errors or she would be in that list, too. There IS Colonel Vindman but the guys seem to be few and far between.
The Georgia state case involves defendants mostly neither elected nor appointed and could hardly be construed as involving official acts of an elected officer. Nothing he did related to his current term of office, rather his candidacy for re-election. The Florida case, except for it's presiding justice, is about activities occurring AFTER he left office. These crimes should stand up to an immunity defense. I didn't hear anything about immunity for activities occurring after he returned to being private citizen. On the other hand, as quoted so often heretofore, justice delayed is justice denied and he is being successful in his quest to delay, delay, delay.
To Joyce Vance
Thank you for clarifying the depths of my feeling. What the MAGA folks on the Supreme Court did today was a travesty and a farce, but it was not a surprise. This week they held two hearings that seemed to show how much this court continues to find ways to punish women and protect Trump. Their main method is by questioning the meaning of words. This court continues to be one the biggest threats to American freedom and democracy. They seem to have no concern for precedent or crime, and certainly nothing about equality and justice.
For me, the worst part was a glib remark by one of the men — I could’t tell which because I heard it on the radio. — After the government lawyer said that the charges against the former president came from a legally appointed special prosecutor, who had to get the approval of a grand jury, and that the judgment of guilt or innocence would come for a jury of 12 Americans. The justice, scoffed and said something like “We all know a good prosecutor can get anything he wants form a grand jury, and they know how to work a jury.” In other words, he was saying that the entire justice system is a joke that no one should believe is fair, so how can we ever hold a president accountable? It’s all political.
So here, a justice on the Supreme Court is tossing out the legitimacy of the entire American legal system. Only they are in a position to decide what is legal and what is not, and they are not about to do that for a while, especially if it involves their wive’s favorite candidate.
My fear is that these people feel that it part of their duty to America to make sure that they will get to choose the winners of the 2024 election. They have already shown by how they allow voter suppression and gerrymandering that they don’t really feel that elections should be free and fair. WE the People, have to hold them accountable. We are seeing a fascist theocracy appear before our eyes.
I think that was Alito, who's had a bee in his bonnet this entire process. IMO, he is ideology-driven and has no intention of impartiality. He just uses double-speak to appear to be weighing the issues. What a smug SCOTUS (un) Justice.
It was Robert’s
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Well said oldandintheway💙
The right wing Christian nationalist evangelical movement has been working toward establishing a fascist theocracy for over 50 years. Now they have their Orange Jesus, And there is to install him in the White House as they did in 2016. His job in return for that installation was to stack the Supreme Court. He wants to be the fascist dictator. We must stop him and them: the puppet masters who would first do away with civil rights for women, then blacks, and lastly our LGBTQ citizens. I’m taking heart with the fact that E. Jean Carroll and Robbie, Kaplan, and annihilated him. The New York cases are very powerful in the public eye. He now is known as a rapist, a fraud, and he is broke. He is also broken: with the onset of dementia, unable to form sentences or recall, simple words. He is now forced to sit through a criminal trial, where a gag order has been imposed. I don’t think he’s going to make it through the entire trial without some kind of physical or mental collapse. Then justice will have been served.
Everyone must remember that none of these crooks will live forever and quite a few are up in years. Heaven forbid that Trump lasts as long as Kissinger!
Wow, I missed that truly awful and disrespectful comment.