210 Comments

I read it last night and quite laughed.

Those awful Justices and their immunity for "official acts." I dearly hope President Harris's first OFFICIAL ACT is to kick at least 5 of those jokers off SCOTUS, nay 6, as Barrett sentenced a man to death last night against even the prosecutors' wishes.

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And she calls herself a christian.

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I will argue with you that what she calls herself has a capital C, even though you expressed yourself correct.y…

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To wit, I continue to wonder how the confirmation of six “Catholic” justices ever passed muster in a country that has always embraced separation of church & state. Sure, the justices are not priests but their previous decisions and individual history should have been a red flag that was ignored, particularly as we now know they lied and misled Senators during their confirmation hearings.

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I agree with you about the red flags. That's something I've never figured out. One thing I do remember is that when the judiciary committee was doing the hearing for Brett Kavanaugh, they wanted an investigation, and trump forced the FBI to severely limit their investigation. That was in the context of the sexual violence allegation from Christine Blasey Ford. I've also never figured out why nobody ever investigated or acknowledged Anita Hill's allegations against Clarence Thomas. I think at least part of it may have been misogyny.. And with Anita Hill, she was Black…

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Time to lace the good old boys club with women.

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Patricia, your comment made me smile. I agree!

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And for that alone, they should be kicked off the Court!

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Wowsa, I dig you two for those comments!

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founding

There are meny divisions within that faith and I spell that one thusly,

Krystyun

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Christians are bloodthirsty (see: The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, what happened to the Catharsis among other “heretics”)

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Google the Methodist hymn lyrics: "Onward Christian Soldiers." That will tell you all you need to know about these savages!

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Yes! And I look back at my younger, teenage years attending a Methodist Church and always wanting to sing “Onward Christian Soldiers.” Yikes! In my adult years I got my hands on a Methodist Hymnal and carefully read it in shock. “John, I said, what were you thinking?”

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I used to go with my grandmother until I was about 10. That was all I could take!!!

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As a child I remember thinking that was a really strange hymn.

Supporting soldiers going to war.

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Amen...but so easy to belt out with a military cadence!!!

😎😇👿

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LOL, Patris, you don't have to go that far back in history! There's plenty of recent Xtian villainy. Rep. Clay Higgins comes to mind, along with the misogyny and hatefulness of the Evangelicals.

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I know. I just wonder if The sanctimonious hardline Catholic (and to be fair, Orthodox)community knows history sometimes.

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So true! Just finished a non fiction that contains so much about the Papacy during the Renaissance, Paul Strathern’s The Medici. “ Catholic” power and money were

The Force. Seems like they still are, beware voters!

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Their international scope may be waning but is not significantly diminished.

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I am an apologist for Justice Coney Barrett because I trust her sincerity; not this time.

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Here is an article of what occurred. I read it hoping to defend that Justice Coney Barrett's hands were tied. NOPE! One may argue that this news outlet is biassed but the facts cited bear out the merciless nature of what occurred. Shame on the Supreme Court.

https://theatlantavoice.com/marcellus-williams-missouri-execution-injustice/

"Gov. Mike Parson, a staunch MAGA Republican, ignored every plea for mercy, including those from the prosecutor’s office and over a million citizens and faith leaders who called for clemency. Despite abundant evidence of Williams’ innocence, Parson’s decision to carry out the execution was viewed by many as cruel . . . ."

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Ned, it seems lately Republican governors get a thrill our of killing people in the name of the state. Since it is the state that does it, they don't hve to take any responsibility. In this case, there was a lot of evidence that the man was innocent, but both the SC and the MO governor didn't care.

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founding

Recreational cruelty

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Oooooo,,,, “… Recreational Cruelty …” What a spot-on label!!! And far more formal than the phrase I use, which is “Evil for fun…” My phrase comes from two bosses I had who I came to realize were just “evil for fun” because of the grossly mean way they treated some of us…. decisions that had nothing to do with the best needs of our work, but rather were decisions to pointedly be mean to, and cause hurt to, us. So, your label has given my phrase a new more formal descriptive label!!! Thanks!!

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Thanks for this, Ned.

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You are welcome, Heather. Au contraire, I thank you for alerting me to this hurtful ruling.

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She’s two faced imo.

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It reminds me of the old saying, "never believe your own press".

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A Spanish inquisition Christian.....

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And The Bonfire of the Vanities.

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Sep 25·edited Sep 25

I wholeheartedly agree. But I especially detest the outright hypocrisy on the part of Barrett in allowing the execution of a human, no matter the crime. She is a catholic, and "Thou Shalt Not Kill' is not a suggestion. So I agree, she and the other 5 jokers need to be removed from the bench and replaced with those who honor the Constitution and the rule of law (and the religious beliefs they profess.)

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I thought the same thing. The pro life party sanctions murder.

The right to choose is not about life at all. It’s about power over women.

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AND she adopted Haitian children! Can’t wait for them to grow up and hear about the errors of her ways.

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Justices Thomas, Alito, and Kavanaugh are definitely not fit to sit on the Supreme Court. I was overseas for Justice Alito and did not understand quite what he was like. Maybe Ms Harriet Myers might have been a better choice after all!

The other two, I opposed early on, before the scandals involving women broke. In fact, Mmes Hill and Blasey-Ford confirmed what I had concluded: each man had a weird relationship with power and a lack of humility. Ironically, I initially warmed to Justice Kavanaugh.

Justice Kavanaugh's animated "Clinton hatchet job" response, fueled in part by what he figured was vengeance for his role in publicizing the Starr inquiry into President Clinton, reminded me of me when someone called me out on my alcoholism in college.

Neither should be on the Court. Justice Alito, on the other hand, impresses me a resentful goodie-two-shoes who was bullied as a teen and never quite got over it. Maybe that is a weird relationship with power, too; I can not tell.

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For me, it was Kavanaugh screaming and crying during the hearings. Not eg act,y adult behavior, his (for me) legal and political leanings aside.

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founding

Great article. One cannot miss the irony that it was the charge the Supremes gave Chutkan that fully ( and obviously) necessitates a longer opening brief by the Government. It will be interesting to see this and ?maybe harmonize it with Ja6 Committee evidence.

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He was coached to do this by White House counsel Don McGahn, the same counsel who was cleaned up in a recent NY Times article discussing how lawyers including McGahn tried to put the brakes on Trump’s efforts to weaponize the DOJ.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/21/us/politics/trump-investigations-enemies.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

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Alito is worse than that. He is tied to Leonard Leo, the religious fanatical billionaire who is under investigation for his influence of the Court we now have and for creating 40+ shell companies that he created as “charities”. In fact, one of those companies is operated by Ginni Thomas. You know, Clarence’s wifey, who helped provide buses for the J6 coup.

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Thank you for this info. You remind me of why I like Senator Whitehouse so much.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5010131/user-clip-free-speech-corruption

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Love Sen. Whitehouse! He’s been on Leo’s case since Day One! A thorn in Leo’s side, happily.

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Isn’t he amazing! It’s

Like having four senators in one. He’s everywhere !!!

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And the second to pardon Hunter Biden.

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The whole laptop hullaballoo aside - the gun charges? And the House really screwed the pooch in their ""investigations. But the gun charge should stick.

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Maggie, I am not sure why the gun charges should stick when so many other people seem to have had such charges dismissed unless the person had used the gun, which he hasn't.

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Well, I've noticed - last 6-8 years - doesnt seem to matter what has happened with anyone else. Think about it - if the norms mattered - orange elvis would be in jail right now, right?

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It will stick. The pardon would keep him out of jail.

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This is what I meant when I said I couldn't agree more. President Biden must pardon him. You see, we can't take a chance on Trump winning (he won't win).

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I could not agree more.

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Why? Wasn't he found guilty of the charges?

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A pardon can, and usually does follow a conviction (Richard Nixon's notwithstanding.)

"A pardon is an expression of the president's forgiveness and ordinarily is granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or completion of sentence." -Wikipedia

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If r nixon can be pardoned of treason why not Hunter of his stupidity ?

Biden should pardon his son, why should he care what people think ? Clinton didn't care what anyone thought when he pardoned that rich f--k friend of his.

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Where did you get the idea that a President can remove a Supreme Court justice? Or did I miss your humor here?

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A president can start the impeachment of the judges.

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A president cannot remove a supreme court justice.

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True. I think, though, her choice of Attorney General will be consequential. In my opinion some of those SCJ have taken bribes for outcomes on the bench, and some have committed perjury during their confirmation hearings before the Senate. And that's just stuff we know about. I wonder how the new AG will approach the problem.

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I don’t think the executive has jurisdiction to kick supreme court justices off the bench. They can resign or be impeached but not fired.

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But if the President has complete immunity for acts done while in office...

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Sep 25·edited Sep 25

VP Harris has more respect for the law than to use that SC finding to get them off the bench. That's the underhanded way to solve the problem. I can bet she thinks about how to solve the issue of a tilted, political court.

We need majorities in both Houses. BLUE all the way.

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Even under SCOTUS' new vague immunity standard, removing a justice does not qualify as an official presidential act.

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apparently anything you do from behind the desk does.

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trump is against anything that does not make him look good, or rather, perfect. It makes perfect sense to me that Judge Chutkan is allowing the extra pages for Jack Smith's brief - he is doing a lot of the detail work for her. What's not to like about that? And trump and his lawyers just don't get that the spaghetti they throw at the judge has nothing to do with real legal issues, and that Judge Chutkan isn't going to eat that spaghetti. I am so glad she is sane! We need to see her type of sanity in all of trump's legal cases.

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Besides, he’s the one who pushed it into this timeframe. The case might have been over by now.

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Exactly. His only intention, everywhere, is to create chaos so that the public is to confused to look deeply. Well surprise! Thanks to Joyce and others...we are watching! Justice will prevail.

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Barbara B, justice should prevail eventually, but it hasn't yet. If it had, there would be a lot more people in prison, such as the many politicians who supported the Jan 6th attempted coup.

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Good point. Thank you. I agree.

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Agree. I think that is or should be crucial.

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I am waiting for her to stop them from intentionally wasting the court's time with nonsense repeated filings.

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I think she's trying to get a message across to them that they are too dense to get. All the delays are because trump is so desperate to stay out of jail. I'm thinking that even though she is very professional, her patience might some day run out. One can hope.

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Oh. . . Todd Blanche and the others get it, all right. They know they're pushing her limit but their main objective is to get all of this pushed past the election. That's their only goal.

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Betsy, IMO the reason they are trying to get the case pushed past the election, is so they'll get paid (if you don't keep trump really happy, you don't get paid…)

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IMHO, if you're dumb enough to work for Trumpet without getting paid in advance and as you go along, you deserve to not get paid! Hmm, and now I wonder if this has anything to do with the sometimes dubious quality of his legal representation.

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From what I understand, from listening Joyce Vance, they are actually seasoned lawyers. I think the biggest problem we've seen with them is that they listen to trump and do his bidding. I think we saw that with the election denial/porn star payment trial. I agree with you about deserving to not get paid if you don't look out for yourself.

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And then say she’s politically motivated and biased. It’s exhausting.

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That would be great.

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And the defense will likewise be granted leave to file a commensurately longer reply brief.

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Which will be "full of words and music and signifying nothing" a quote attributed to Gilbert and Sullivan.

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Actually, 17 hours later, I realized it was a quote from Tom Lehrer, about Gilbert and Sullivan.

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Joyce I enjoy understanding these legal ins and outs because of you. And Judge Chutkin must have a sharp mind and deep understanding of law to parse these issues so succincly. I admire both of you.

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Well, it was hard work but they are WOMEN! We're used to that. . . 😁

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And they certainly don't require trump's protection!!!!!!!

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Again, the usual Trump crap means more work for everyone else. even though these are ridiculous complaints, the judge has to read them through and write a proper response. Like having to write. rebuttal to "the dog ate my homework" over and over and over again, in legalese. This case is already demanding way more work than it should. And she's not only keeping up, she's pushing it forward. I'm optimistic that some significant disclosures are going to be made public pretty soon, definitely before Nov. 5. I just hope people are watching and listening. I'm also hoping that after Trump loses, Jack Smith and Judge Chutkan will forge ahead - relentlessly - and put Trump on trial.

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Did you see the new orange MAGA hat he is selling. A matching outfit when he gets to jail.

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The man whines incessantly. You would think he would tire of his own noise.

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AMEN!

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founding

I am wearying of Trump's incessant stupidity but more so the fact that the news AND the courts are weighed down by them. That we are in a never ending cesspool of Trump related crap makes me want to break my China into itsy bitsy pieces. LOL. It's funny though. Seems SCOTUS has shot themselves in the foot with these new demands on immunity. "Ya want more evidence? We got us more evidence!"

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Thank you Joyce. Judge Chutkan is a great American. Unlike most of the members of our Supreme Court, she will uphold our laws.

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And, with any luck at all, she'll one day be a member of that body.

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We'll need a lot more than a little luck for that to happen.

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Joyce, you are the best! Thanks for the Helpful summary.

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It was really hard work to write this. Sorry you could not spend the time with your chicks!

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As I understand it, the first draft is always chicken scratch which Joyce revises into a logical presentation for our reading “pleasure” or, at least, elucidation.

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Sure wish Joyce had taught any ofd my law classes. Ditto Barb.

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Of course tfg,ever the windbag,talks and talks,over everyone,yet says nothing.

Reminds me of a T-shirt someone I knew once had,"Help! I'm talking and I can't shut up!"

The faster he goes away the happier I'll be.

(P.S.He's no more "immune"than plague rats,and just as disgusting...)

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I have a tea towel that says, "I'm sorry I slapped you. But you wouldn't stop talking and I panicked!"

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That's a good one.So funny,I love it!😂

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I love that Judge Chutkan is all business with the clown show. They are the stupidest bunch of lawyers on the planet. Read the room, idiots! She does not want to play. Still, they continue testing her limits. It’s the wear-her-down-strategy that Trump uses with everyone. He wants to break her with his strongman tactics. Too bad for him and the clowns, she’s not going to back down because she knows the law; they make it up as they go.

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TFG has run off his “good” attorneys and the fame seekers running the show now are only doing what he tells them to. Think reince priebus whining about inauguration crowd sizes or in Tfg’s case, those two old farts in that great Akroyd-Murphy Christmas classic, “Trading Places.” Wouldn’t you love to see T in the gorilla’s cage when this nightmare finally ends?!

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His delay tactics have worked constantly and the bias Supreme Court publicly helped him with immunity. We are all so sick of Trump and his entitlement so I am very happy Chutkan sees right thru him unlike Cannon who I have always believed has an offshore account filled with Trump bribe money! Just my opinion! Let's go, Jack Smith!

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I, Anne, have that bumper sticker centrally positioned on the back of my car, Let's Go Jack Smith!

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I love having an experienced legal eagle to ‘splain all this stuff to us laypersons. Joyce is the shizzle! 💖🐓🐔👩‍⚖️

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I appreciate having the talking points, thank you. Really though, the entire thing could be summarized briefly in this way: "See prior re: delay, delay, delay."

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Love that Judge Chutkan ain't biting, though.

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Trump acts like a guilty man. His lawyers are giving the law a good go-around. But if Smith's case can be known ASAP, that would be great.

And yes, the justice system should not have to bow to norms created by the DOJ. Justice has been plenty denied but more, the people have been in this case against Donald Trump.

Reading Heather Cox Richardson's "Democracy Awakening" is a good reminder of how we got here and the work we have ahead. It's not dense, pretty plain spoken but essential.

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founding

Yes, HCR’s book, “Democracy Awakening” is an excellent read!

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And, Potter, On Tyranny and On Freedom by Timothy Snyder.

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founding

“The incoherence of defendant's demand” I do believe that this is what we have come to see and expect as this case moves forward. Thank you Joyce, for keeping us up to speed as things develop.

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The incoherence of defendant's demand mirrors the incoherence of his normal speech.

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Thank you for your great insight and thoughtful, clear writing and understanding. Your communication for democracy and our America is a true gift.

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Thank you for this update! I have questions about the criminal charges filed against the two citizens whose words terrorised an entire community in Ohio. Does that case filing affect the one out on bail, in numerous jurisdictions, differently? Isn't 'no committing additional crimes' part of any bail agreement language?

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