More about Pence’s Lack of Principles In yesterday’s edition of Civil Discourse, we explored the news that Trump’s lawyers plan to challenge the Special Counsel’s subpoena to Mike Pence on executive privilege grounds. Now comes news that Pence, too, intends to challenge the subpoena, arguing that the Constitution’s “speech or debate” clause protects him from testifying. You might ask how the speech or debate clause, which applies to members of Congress, works for Pence. Here’s his answer: it applies because he was acting as the president of the Senate on January 6. Never mind that Mike Pence ducked testifying before the January 6 committee by claiming that he was part of the executive branch.
Pence is the guy those traitors wanted to hang on Jan. 6. Why is he so opposed to telling the truth about what transpired on that shameful day? Because he’d lose votes from the very monsters who wanted him dead. It’s twisted: Keep your mouth shut and never rat on your … enemies?? That’s some kinda sick, Mike.
First off....that Pence might be trying to fend off the subpoena because he thinks that having to testify against Trump will impact his political future is laughable in the extreme. Not questioning your analysis, Joyce. Just saying that Pence is delusional if he thinks he HAS a political future. He barely has a political past.
Mike Pence has no political base. Many people see him for what he is, a total fake. At those Cabinet meetings where the press was brought in, he was the Sycophant-in-Chief. As for the Trump MAGA base, they would rather hang him than vote for him. The only policy issue he stands for is banning abortions completely.
Pence should wake up from his daydream and step up and testify. Perhaps he could save a scrap of his honor and reputation, rather than flush it down the toilet that currently contains the legacy of Donald J. Trump.
Hey, Mike. Do the right thing and maybe at least Mother and the kids can be proud of you some day.
I have a question for Joyce: If per chance judges rule against Jack Smith & say that Pence doesn’t have to obey Smith’s subpoena, can Smith use the many taped interviews Pence gave while promoting his book as evidence?
I realize that Pence wasn’t under oath when he gave those interviews, but Pence related many of the conversations he had with Trump after the 2020 election, even telling about their conversations in the days before the Jan. 6 insurrection. What’s the law on using that public information as evidence?
I am looking forward to hearing more right wing criticism of Smith and these "fishing expeditions" and "prosecutorial misconduct" and "weaponized DOJ" from the people who belong to the "Kenneth Starr is protecting our country" and "Hunter Biden is a threat" brigade. Let us never forget our mortal peril brought about by Benghazi.
Thank you for an excellent synopsis - again. I had read briefly about Pence’s proposed “exception” to keep him from testifying. I knew you would flesh it out a bit more. I truly don’t understand how you can write a book, go on a speaking tour, and then claim some ridiculous privilege against telling the truth!! I guess that means his book is a load of BS because he can’t really tell people anything about his time in office because it’s all privileged. But then I fully expect his book is a work of fiction. On a side note - I can’t wait to see that new coop!! Those girls are going to love it!
Pence, the perfect lackey, has always served Pence’s interest first I believe. His time fawning over little Donnie tells me he only resisted the attempts to change the outcome because he was afraid he would be in trouble. Not because he feared for the republic. In the dictionary his picture is beside the definition of WEAK.
Joyce Vance, braved addressing 'principle' in the land that appears to have abandoned it, along with the rule of law.
'Principled would have been coming forward in advance of Jan. 6 to prevent what was about to happen. Principled would have been sharing what he knew with the country during impeachment. But refusing to tell Americans the truth about the president he served alongside two years down the road in order to protect himself and his career is tawdry. Pence’s effort to cloak himself in both executive privilege and legislative privilege, while leaving the country to fend for itself, offends the oath he took to serve.' Vance wrote.
NOT SO FAST, MIKE PENCE! '...Pence may not fully appreciate who the special counsel and his top lieutenants are. Although Jack Smith has worked in a number of different positions at DOJ, he once ran its public integrity unit.' Vance at it, again!
'...the lawyers in public integrity are good prosecutors. They’ve had lots of institutional experience with difficult cases that backstops their work. They know the law, they know strategy, they know how to litigate questions like this and get the evidence they need. It seems very unlikely that they issued this subpoena without fully anticipating what Pence would try to sling back at them.'
Professor Vance, I imagine that Pence does not understand fully what he is up against. He has always struck me as a man with little worldly experience and therefore less imagination than those that do have it. By worldly I mean exposure and experience with diverse people and divergent ideas. Experience whether from books or otherwise drives imagination. Pence seems to lack both. This can be a problem in general with fundamentalists running our country and world. He sits squarely with the conservative members of the Supreme Court who also have this problem, which I think disqualifies them experientially from deciding the cases that come before them. They are not really able to understand the cases. It sounds like the team Pence is facing has much more experience and imagination. Let us hope they put it to good use here. Pence should not be able to treat our national safety as something to either convenience or inconvenience his running for office. I do sympathize with the fear he might be feeling as he relives the call for him to be killed by the former president when he did not do his bidding.
It is truly disheartening and disgusting to know there are so many in our government in the highest, most important positions, who stand and take an oath to uphold laws they continually break or ignore when it serves their selfish purposes. And these criminals are running for the highest positions in the country, again.
I will never understand how anyone could even consider voting for someone who would destroy their very freedom for political and monetary gain.
The fact that pence does not want to testify to the truth of the matter after being threatened with hanging tells me he is an idiot, and has no business in a position of authority.
Thank you for your explanation. Lawrence Tribe also made it very clear that this new Pence strategy is not valid at all. Every attempt Pence uses now to avoid testimony
screams self serving motives. His desire to protect Democracy or the Constitution is long gone.
It takes courage to sacrifice your career to a higher cause. We ask our military to unquestionably put country over their own self interest. Pense testifying is political suicide and he knows this. The GOP will abandon him, call him a traitor and worse . I think we will all remember people like Cassidy Hutchinson way beyond Mike Pense if he continues to fight this. For a man of deep faith in Christianity he should understand that sacrifice is at the real center of this faith. I hope he realizes what his higher duty should be.
I can't shake the image of Pence during the Muir/ABC interview. His body language is an advanced-level Psych course. The man keeps busy 24/7 trying to say exactly the right things to keep all his deceptions and loyalties and religiosity spinning. It must be terrible to be Mike Pence. And I am pleased to watch him journey through hell on earth. Take your time, you deserve your misery.
And that was probably the nastiest thing I ever wrote down. I am not, however, sorry in the least.
“Principled would have ... “ Pious Mike has no principles, his political future is non existent and at the rate he’s going, his afterlife will be more Dante than pearly gates.
Writes a book with title of “in god we trust” but doesn’t want to appear before a grand jury where he can says those words out loud. $$$$$ comes first . Doing the right thing comes in dead last everytime in his case.
This from today's piece is priceless "In the Graham matter, the courts ruled that legislative investigative activity was protected, but that conversations about ways states could avoid election outcomes that favored Biden didn’t fall within his Senate work."
It's interesting to think about how Pence's 'strongly held Christian beliefs' will play into his testimony. Should he not, as a devout Christian, keep an oath to tell the truth? Or is it more important to boost book sales and a 'promising' political career.
Pence is the guy those traitors wanted to hang on Jan. 6. Why is he so opposed to telling the truth about what transpired on that shameful day? Because he’d lose votes from the very monsters who wanted him dead. It’s twisted: Keep your mouth shut and never rat on your … enemies?? That’s some kinda sick, Mike.
First off....that Pence might be trying to fend off the subpoena because he thinks that having to testify against Trump will impact his political future is laughable in the extreme. Not questioning your analysis, Joyce. Just saying that Pence is delusional if he thinks he HAS a political future. He barely has a political past.
Mike Pence has no political base. Many people see him for what he is, a total fake. At those Cabinet meetings where the press was brought in, he was the Sycophant-in-Chief. As for the Trump MAGA base, they would rather hang him than vote for him. The only policy issue he stands for is banning abortions completely.
Pence should wake up from his daydream and step up and testify. Perhaps he could save a scrap of his honor and reputation, rather than flush it down the toilet that currently contains the legacy of Donald J. Trump.
Hey, Mike. Do the right thing and maybe at least Mother and the kids can be proud of you some day.
I feel reassured, and hopeful (but that’s just me). May seriousness prevail. Thank you, Joyce, as always.
I have a question for Joyce: If per chance judges rule against Jack Smith & say that Pence doesn’t have to obey Smith’s subpoena, can Smith use the many taped interviews Pence gave while promoting his book as evidence?
I realize that Pence wasn’t under oath when he gave those interviews, but Pence related many of the conversations he had with Trump after the 2020 election, even telling about their conversations in the days before the Jan. 6 insurrection. What’s the law on using that public information as evidence?
I am looking forward to hearing more right wing criticism of Smith and these "fishing expeditions" and "prosecutorial misconduct" and "weaponized DOJ" from the people who belong to the "Kenneth Starr is protecting our country" and "Hunter Biden is a threat" brigade. Let us never forget our mortal peril brought about by Benghazi.
Thank you for an excellent synopsis - again. I had read briefly about Pence’s proposed “exception” to keep him from testifying. I knew you would flesh it out a bit more. I truly don’t understand how you can write a book, go on a speaking tour, and then claim some ridiculous privilege against telling the truth!! I guess that means his book is a load of BS because he can’t really tell people anything about his time in office because it’s all privileged. But then I fully expect his book is a work of fiction. On a side note - I can’t wait to see that new coop!! Those girls are going to love it!
Pence, the perfect lackey, has always served Pence’s interest first I believe. His time fawning over little Donnie tells me he only resisted the attempts to change the outcome because he was afraid he would be in trouble. Not because he feared for the republic. In the dictionary his picture is beside the definition of WEAK.
Joyce Vance, braved addressing 'principle' in the land that appears to have abandoned it, along with the rule of law.
'Principled would have been coming forward in advance of Jan. 6 to prevent what was about to happen. Principled would have been sharing what he knew with the country during impeachment. But refusing to tell Americans the truth about the president he served alongside two years down the road in order to protect himself and his career is tawdry. Pence’s effort to cloak himself in both executive privilege and legislative privilege, while leaving the country to fend for itself, offends the oath he took to serve.' Vance wrote.
NOT SO FAST, MIKE PENCE! '...Pence may not fully appreciate who the special counsel and his top lieutenants are. Although Jack Smith has worked in a number of different positions at DOJ, he once ran its public integrity unit.' Vance at it, again!
'...the lawyers in public integrity are good prosecutors. They’ve had lots of institutional experience with difficult cases that backstops their work. They know the law, they know strategy, they know how to litigate questions like this and get the evidence they need. It seems very unlikely that they issued this subpoena without fully anticipating what Pence would try to sling back at them.'
'All's Well That Ends Well'!
Professor Vance, I imagine that Pence does not understand fully what he is up against. He has always struck me as a man with little worldly experience and therefore less imagination than those that do have it. By worldly I mean exposure and experience with diverse people and divergent ideas. Experience whether from books or otherwise drives imagination. Pence seems to lack both. This can be a problem in general with fundamentalists running our country and world. He sits squarely with the conservative members of the Supreme Court who also have this problem, which I think disqualifies them experientially from deciding the cases that come before them. They are not really able to understand the cases. It sounds like the team Pence is facing has much more experience and imagination. Let us hope they put it to good use here. Pence should not be able to treat our national safety as something to either convenience or inconvenience his running for office. I do sympathize with the fear he might be feeling as he relives the call for him to be killed by the former president when he did not do his bidding.
It is truly disheartening and disgusting to know there are so many in our government in the highest, most important positions, who stand and take an oath to uphold laws they continually break or ignore when it serves their selfish purposes. And these criminals are running for the highest positions in the country, again.
I will never understand how anyone could even consider voting for someone who would destroy their very freedom for political and monetary gain.
The fact that pence does not want to testify to the truth of the matter after being threatened with hanging tells me he is an idiot, and has no business in a position of authority.
Thank you for your explanation. Lawrence Tribe also made it very clear that this new Pence strategy is not valid at all. Every attempt Pence uses now to avoid testimony
screams self serving motives. His desire to protect Democracy or the Constitution is long gone.
It takes courage to sacrifice your career to a higher cause. We ask our military to unquestionably put country over their own self interest. Pense testifying is political suicide and he knows this. The GOP will abandon him, call him a traitor and worse . I think we will all remember people like Cassidy Hutchinson way beyond Mike Pense if he continues to fight this. For a man of deep faith in Christianity he should understand that sacrifice is at the real center of this faith. I hope he realizes what his higher duty should be.
I can't shake the image of Pence during the Muir/ABC interview. His body language is an advanced-level Psych course. The man keeps busy 24/7 trying to say exactly the right things to keep all his deceptions and loyalties and religiosity spinning. It must be terrible to be Mike Pence. And I am pleased to watch him journey through hell on earth. Take your time, you deserve your misery.
And that was probably the nastiest thing I ever wrote down. I am not, however, sorry in the least.
“Principled would have ... “ Pious Mike has no principles, his political future is non existent and at the rate he’s going, his afterlife will be more Dante than pearly gates.
Writes a book with title of “in god we trust” but doesn’t want to appear before a grand jury where he can says those words out loud. $$$$$ comes first . Doing the right thing comes in dead last everytime in his case.
This from today's piece is priceless "In the Graham matter, the courts ruled that legislative investigative activity was protected, but that conversations about ways states could avoid election outcomes that favored Biden didn’t fall within his Senate work."
It's interesting to think about how Pence's 'strongly held Christian beliefs' will play into his testimony. Should he not, as a devout Christian, keep an oath to tell the truth? Or is it more important to boost book sales and a 'promising' political career.