466 Comments

It seems important to know that an embryo is not a fetus. An embryo exists from the time of fertilization to 11th week of pregnancy (which is the 9th week after fertilization). At that point, it is defined as a fetus. What these judges have decided to call a child is not even a fetus, it is an embryo.

(And a fetus is not a child until it can survive independently of the womb.) The absurdity of this decision is gobsmacking.

Expand full comment

I suspect at some point in the not too distant future, embryos will count in the census to justify more legislature representation!

Expand full comment

Do you remember when Mitt Romney made the famous statement that corporations were "people?"

Here we are again.

Question - if these embryos are "people," will Social Security numbers have to be issued? May the "parents" deduct them on their taxes? I know I'm absurd but so is this ruling brought by people, in the name of Christianity. Justices who, Jesus would have tossed out of the temple, the same way he did the money changers.

Expand full comment

And until SCOTUS did way with Roe v Wade, Citizens United was the worst decision the Court ever made.

Expand full comment

Well, there are a couple of others. Dred Scott and Korematsu come to mind.

Expand full comment

As well as letting people carry guns all over the place.

Expand full comment

Yep, embryos must live but not children in school, people in places of worship, night clubs, watching parades, women in relationships, nor any other human endeavor.

Expand full comment

Hey! Something ALL Americans (men and women) can agree on, right?! Maybe with this "Right" it's time for women to get a backbone.

Expand full comment

You must be female. ONLY females can get this. Our earth's patriarchal-dominate existence will ALWAYS win... because the bible says ..... God is a male. Period. There is one passage that seems to apply -- Genesis 2.7. but I'm sure a male could/has rewritten this passage to their benefit .... no?

Expand full comment

For these "life begins at conception" people, how do they know when conception happens? Lots of people don't even know they're pregnant at 6 weeks. In IVF, it's possible to tell a sperm and egg have united, not as easy in a human body. Sometimes 3 embryos are implanted in a uterus, but only one develops into a fetus? What happens in that situation? Is an embryo frozen for 10 years still viable? Even frozen food has an expiration date. The Talabama Supreme Court has stepped into a place where angels fear to tread.

Expand full comment

Sperm frozen for a decade or more is supposedly still viable, so I would think a fertilized egg would be, too.

Expand full comment

And just would the law be if an IVF embryo is implanted then spontaneously aborts as I have read happens? Or, as you write, several embryos are implanted but only one survives being implanted? Would the woman be charged with having an illegal abortion?

My mother told me that she had had a spontaneous abortion when she didn't know she was pregnant until the fetus dropped into the toilet (first pregnancy, age 22).

Expand full comment

You must be female! No Good 'ol boy understands or cares! THAT is what Trump and the GOP are!

Expand full comment

Donna - I'm not sure who your comment is directed to, perhaps me. I agree with you about the so-called Good Old Boys, though that category doesn't include all men. There are many men, I'd like to think most men, including husbands who want children as much as their wives do, who do and will care.

Expand full comment

I don't think you are absurd at all. What you say follows from the holding. Since it isn't a FEDERAL holding, probably not a good idea to claim Jr. in Waiting as a deduction on your Federal Returns. But state returns---why not?

Expand full comment

Georgia allows a $3,000 dependent person income tax deduction for any unborn fetus with a detectable heartbeat. I kid you not. See https://dor.georgia.gov/press-releases/2022-08-01/guidance-related-house-bill-481-living-infants-and-fairness-equality-life.

Expand full comment

No detectable heartbeats in a blastocyst, the multicellular stage implanted in a woman’s womb. No heart actually. Not unlike those judges and legislators.

Expand full comment

Worth reading the FAQ's in the coverage of this bill. Absurdity is not considering the fallout and long-term consequences of ideology rapidly, thoughtlessly, heartlessly, ruthlessly becoming law across the land.

Expand full comment

I read the FAQ’s. Very interesting - no documentation of the pregnancy is required. Unless audited! Then you better have your medical records fully documented. The potential for an absolute invasion of your privacy is in the hands of the Georgia Republicans. No worries!

Expand full comment

Party of open carry gun policies, refusal to expand Medicaid, book banning…a

Expand full comment

Is Georgia one of the states that, when given $ for Welfare and children’s meal’s don’t distribute it, they keep for their own “causes”?? Disgusting

Expand full comment

Carol-Ann - Your post is WONDERFUL. Thank You !!

Expand full comment

I came here to say the exact same thing! Thank you for expressing it so well!

Expand full comment

Yes. And, we can take out loans in their names using their identification as frozen people who are waiting to be born if some willing women puts them in their womb. Or, are we going to put money into petrie dish development. All of this state control of reproduction reminds me of Hitlers Lebensborn program.

Expand full comment

Amazing post. Thank you!

Expand full comment

You must be female. ONLY females can get this. Our earth's patriarchal-dominate existence will ALWAYS win... because the bible says ..... God is a male. Period. There is one passage that seems to apply -- Genesis 2.7. but I'm sure a male could/has rewritten this passage to their benefit .... no?

Expand full comment

Ok if these embryos are children, then they can be tax deductions, no? For every year they’re “alive”, all say, 9 of them count. If more than one harvesting is performed, could be 18 or 27. Allll these little tax deductions…

Expand full comment

And, in addition to claiming them as a tax deduction, can I carry those embryos in a cooler in my car, so I can drive in the commuter lane to & from work?

Expand full comment

You guys are thinking too small. Get yourself 750,000 of those embryos in an annex on your home. Your home is now has enough people to be its own congressional district and you are the only registered voter in the district. You get your own congressman.

Expand full comment

🤣🤣🤣

Expand full comment

Have to admit, I stole this idea from my son.

Expand full comment

And let’s not forget that child support must be paid and medical insurance provided and/or contributions to insurance be required.

Expand full comment

OMG, don't hold your breath. These ninnies would change their tune in a, pardon the expression, heartbeat.

Expand full comment

Are women due child support for their embryos?

Expand full comment

The white christian zealots don’t see the need for outside child care to exist. The zealots want the woman at home having babies and tending her husband and family needs. No need for child care, work, college, activities, credit card, voting…

Expand full comment

Change your address to Afghanistan!

Expand full comment

They can't even get it for their actual children, which is the real question. Can a DNA paternity test be done on a microscopic blob?

Expand full comment

Nope.

Expand full comment

It seems that the original cases were filed so that the people could get money the state offers for loss of life through fetal or embryo loss. Not sure what the deal is on that. So, these definitions being monetized just adds to the craziness. Unfortunately the crazies have planned and organized and are taking over. Thus we have things in common with the people's in authoritarian nations.

Expand full comment

I don't disagree, but most assuredly only " white" embryos!!

Expand full comment

Only the Republican embryos can vote, though.

Expand full comment

Don’t give them any more crazy ideas. They’ll jump on it!

Expand full comment

Or as tax deductions.

Expand full comment

I totally agree with you of course - that the decision is gobsmacking - but I totally disagree that there is a useful, legal, or moral distinction between an embryo and a fetus. This is not for grumpy old male judges to decide, and it is not a distinction that is valid for women who wish to control their reproduction.

Women must have the total and unfettered right to decide when to have an abortion - whether one week, 20 weeks or 39 weeks ... full stop.

Expand full comment

Only clarifying the language, not implying anything about limits to abortion.

Expand full comment

Noorillah, I wish there was a way to get your educated words through to those who are stripping this country of our rights, but it can't be done. The far right men making these terrible decisions (and women, too) are drunk with power. They are uneducated, cruel, and will never listen to facts...that has been clear for the past 7-8 years. Our only recourse is to vote them out, to appoint educated individuals to judgeships, and ensure that the word god has no place in our government. Before it's too late.

Expand full comment

In Alabama, it's good luck with voting out our radical low information legislators. We do not have a viable state Democratic party to serve as a counterbalance; they're too busy wrangling and arguing among themselves over who's gonna hold the gavel during what passes for meetings. Add to that, Alabama's republican legislators do not want to hear from the experts, let alone the constituents that do not share their extreme, ill informed opinions. Too, in Alabama judges like those on the ALSC are elected, not appointed. Our system of electing judges is rotten to the core and driven by a strict political agenda. It's already too late IMHO but I hope I'm wrong.

Expand full comment

I’m so sorry! Just VERY glad I live in a Democratic state. Hang in there John.

Expand full comment

Thanks! I'm doing my best but it ain't easy being a blue dingy in and deep red roiling sea.

Expand full comment

Some are educated but it never took. Disantis received regular instruction but he, like the maga judges and 🤡💩🎃, live in their own bloviated world without ethics, morals and common sense. I think of their world as a golden submarine where every one of them has all they need. Maybe that’s not what the Beatles intended but it works for me. Magnuts ignore the real world.

Expand full comment

What worries me more are the ultra right wing wealthy guys who are putting these pols into office (yes DJT, and SCOTUS, too). They deliberately choose low-intelligence automatons who do their bidding for a price. They are neo-Nazis and/or Christian Nationalists.

Expand full comment

Gilead 10

Former American women 0

Expand full comment

To me, this just shows the lack of education on the part of these people. They don't even know WHAT they don't know. I wonder if any of the judges reviewed the biology of reproduction prior to making this ruling.

Expand full comment

And don't you just wish they would legislate male reproductive responsibility first?

Expand full comment

No, they already know it all (not!).

Expand full comment

And the notion that life begins at fertilization is inherently absurd. The sperm and ovum are living cells before they meet. If they weren’t alive, they couldn’t conjoin. Life is a continuous process that began with something like algae and evolved into all the forms that have ever existed. But these guys don’t believe in evolution. Consequently, by proclaiming an absurd proposition as given truth, they have opened a huge can of worms instead of foreclosing the argument. Can’t even.

Expand full comment

Wonderful observation, thank you. This comes from the ability and inclination to observe, reflect and learn from what is real. One might expect (and demand) that judges on any state supreme court could, and would, do likewise.

Expand full comment

Are the worms alive or dead?

Expand full comment

Oh, I believe the worms are very much alive.

Expand full comment

Until a fetus can survive outside the womb it isn't entitled to anything. Following to its illogical collision, the supposition otherwise would require us to convert the entire military budget to pre-term infants.

Of course, once it's there, we don't really give a damn.

Expand full comment

...try telling that to a low information Alabama legislator. They reject science in favor of their radical religious convictions.

Expand full comment

Indeed...well said. 💯🎯 Thank you for this clarification.

Expand full comment

Make them all start paying child support for blastocysts, and they'll reverse this ruling in a New York second.

Expand full comment

If the criteria is embryonic viability, is there a difference between a “viable” implanted embryo and “viable” fetus? What is “viability” if not the ability to survive outside womb? Test tube-not viable, implanted embryo- not viable, pre 23 week fetus- viable? Should be interesting to see republican pretzel logic on this one.

Expand full comment

I don't think they are concerned with viability, and i didn't mean to imply that they were. Viability is about biology, which is in the realm of reality, and these guys seem to have a very tenuous relationship with reality, if at all. Their concern is CONTROL, and they are using their delusional, toxic theology to assert this control, in blatant violation of the First Amendment. Every Constitutional fire alarm across the nation should be wildly clanging right now...

Expand full comment

I don't disagree. My perspective has more to do with the legislative hole they are in. How to rationalize when the embryo is "a child". When it's in the uterus therefore its viable as opposed to test tube where it's not? if viability is the condition then it seems to me they've lost their entire argument. Embryo not viable in test tube, not viable in uterus, not viable as fetus till mol 23 wks. Of course, hypocrisy never stops these characters. The fact that they WANT and NEED to control others is pathological. They do not understand a women's choice its none of their GD damn business. My alarms have been clanging for 8 years!

Expand full comment

You must be female. ONLY females can get this. Our earth's patriarchal-dominate existence will ALWAYS win... because the bible says ..... God is a male. Period. There is one passage that seems to apply -- Genesis 2.7. but I'm sure a male could/has rewritten this passage to their benefit .... no?

Expand full comment

And if I was a betting woman, I'd bet a big pile that these same legislators spirit their daughters out of the state if their unmarried daughters wind up pregnant, especially if the daddy is not a white man.

Expand full comment

Hell if the daddy is not a white man, some of these goons would see that their daughter had some kind of accident or miscarriage. Tom Cotton seems the sort, for one.

Expand full comment

Tom Cotton should have been fragged over in Iraq.

Expand full comment

👍👍 Cotton Is a nasty piece of work.

Expand full comment

This touches a nerve with you.

He and Gooberville

Expand full comment

I have a subterranean pain threshold for morons.

Expand full comment

Actually they get to show they are not "racist"...I live here. They turn everything into a talking point for themselves.

Expand full comment

OF COURSE THEY DO.

Expand full comment

That's an interesting point, any of these who try to pull the bait and switch from "let the states decide" to a nationwide ban need to understand the potential cost to their bank account to find a doc willing to risk their license in that case, even their "concierge docs".

Expand full comment

I resisted this idea for a long time, but we must expand the Supreme Court. Of course this must be done under a Democratic president and with a Democratic Senate. I dearly hope we will all vote Blue in November.

Expand full comment

It took me a while too but there's reasons aplenty for it.

And term limits to serve asSCJ as well they can rotate back down to the appellate system 18 years

Expand full comment

Term limits has to be done!! 💙💙💙💙

Expand full comment

Honestly, age limits too, and require cognitive testing every 2 years after 75. Do that for Congress and POTUS/VP. Pass law requiring pres candidates to submit 10 years of tax returns first, though.

Expand full comment

I have always thought we should expand to the number of districts which is 12.. Fair and simple and it gets us 3 more seats.

Expand full comment

Also Puerto Rico and DC should be states.

Expand full comment

13 is my favorite number.

Expand full comment

🗳️🗳️🗳️🗳️🗳️💙💙💙💙💙

Expand full comment

I am unsure of the process, can it be done while Biden is in office or does it take eons for something of this caliber.

Expand full comment

Congress.

Expand full comment

Don't resist. Give in. It will feel good. ⚖️

Expand full comment

These ludicrous buffoons need to be stopped—as if women were cattle to be impregnated and forced to give birth because their God says so (and I don’t know where it is said). Is this a patriarchal backlash against women who seem to be “threatening” the boys’ club mentality?

Expand full comment

They’ve never forgiven Hilary Clinton for having a brain.

Expand full comment

I heard Little Tommy T. on TV saying we need a lot more babies. Why? So they can grow up to become Government workers or --- heaven forbid (being sarcastic) --- soldiers? So he can make sure they all go broke because he doesn't believe in raises, except for those in the House?

Expand full comment

And to think that this cretin, this semi-literate hominid replaced a decent and thoughtful Democrat, Doug Jones...I hope that those people in this benighted state - with respect, Joyce - actually see and feel the consequences of their vote.

Expand full comment

Wrath was invented by a woman.

Expand full comment

. . . . . because of men like him!

Expand full comment

They have no idea what is coming.

Expand full comment

I hope Alabamans come out in protest too large to ignore.

Expand full comment

SO DO I. 🗳️💙💙

Expand full comment

So do I!

Expand full comment

Not "gonna" lie... Tuberville's comments that "we need more kids", creeped me the heck out! He said it at least twice. Seeing the daily posts on Twitter (now "x") about pastors, youth pastors, police officers, coaches, educators, camp counselors etc who are being arrested each day for possessing child porn or worse - for the rape of a child accompanied by their social media posts about their loyalty to trump, is heartbreaking. They aren't drag queens as DeSantis would have you believe. They aren't gay men. They are the authority figures who place themselves into organizations where children are. And far too many of them (based on their social media history) are not Democrats. So to hear an empty suit like Tuberville emphasize that "we need more kids" makes me ask the question why? You won't give them free lunches, you'll ban their books, you'll decide what they'll be taught in school, you'll legalize them going to work at age 14 in Arkansas more than 8 hours/day, 6 days/week and, as of yesterday (I can't remember which state it is), you'll also decide the length and style of their hair and more. "We need more kids". Because cruelty is the point.

Expand full comment

I keep thinking what ever happened to ZPG? (Zero Population Growth) The mantra when I was growing up and a few smart and educated people recognized the huge negative impact of the exploding human population on Gaia - the Earth’s ecosystem. Now we have even more evidence that human activity has put our planet into serious trouble. What we don’t need is even more people.

Expand full comment

Marian, "What we don’t need is even more people." I was a member of ZPG in NYC in my 20's as it made enormous sense to me, and still does. I lost a few friends who felt it was directed at them (it was not) when they were getting married and having babies.

Expand full comment

Republicans always need there to be more kids because they're not interested in dating anyone of legal age.

Expand full comment

I know there have to be some good Repubs somewhere but, when I read about charges of sexual assault, rape, incest and porn it is overwhelmingly white Republicans who are the perps. What is it that makes them so obsessed with sex and cruelty? What were their upbringing, parents, churches, schools like that made them this way and of course they scream about the Dems lack of morality and family values!

Expand full comment

I wasn't on social media much but became active on Twitter in 2018 before the 2020 election as I was actively working to get Democrats elected. Candidly, that's the first place where, now after years of engagement, I learned how rampant child abuse in our society and our country is. As a (now former) Catholic, I was familiar with it in the church, but had no clue how far reaching and extensive it is. If you are on "x" (formerly Twitter and yes, I still am because I just don't have the time to be on other apps), there's an activist @antifaoperative or Beks who has been tracking arrests of these pedophiles. It's gone from her posting weekly to daily and recently she said it's almost becoming hourly because of the number and permeation of the abuse. She always attaches the links if you choose to read the articles behind the arrests or the sentencing. And you are 100% correct, Sally; they are overwhelmingly white Republicans, some even current and former elected officials. The travesty for me as well is that I had to learn about it on social media. How many people are like me previously and have no clue? 💔

Expand full comment

OMG, Ema, I knew it was rampant in current and former lawmakers among others from the reading I do but this is heartbreaking. I can’t bear to imagine the agony of those children. I don’t like social media and am only on FB with my friends, not public, and even that takes up valuable time. I am working with Third Act, The Civics Center and other groups. Thank you for your response which does not make me happy but I applaud the person who has taken on this terrible list and sources so we know who they are. The more of them who are arrested the better!

Expand full comment

Here's a list of links from atAdvocacy News 2/23/24. They're not live because copied/pasted from an email but you get the gist here. All articles are dated between Feb. 20-22, 2024. The Bobby Leonard about shorts is a video on Xitter.

"Really starting to see a pattern here but not any drag queens

---Kansas church camp assistant director charged with indecency with a child

---Former youth pastor charged with molesting fourth teen boy in Orange County, California

----More victims sought as pastor charged with child sexual assault in Riverside County, California

----North Carolina Pastor Bobby Leonard tells congregation that he'd free any man who raped a woman wearing shorts because "a man's a man"

----Jasper County jury convicts former youth group leader of child rape"

Expand full comment

Mostly a combination of sexual repression - willingly or otherwise - and lack of education. Oh and no women actually want to date conservative men unless they have deep seated emotional issues of their own.

Expand full comment

It just occurred to me that there IS a reason why the Trumpublicans don't want sex education taught in schools anymore. Their way of thinking is that the LESS kids understand about what we used to call "the birds and the bees," the better chance some may become teenage parents, with no way to stop that from happening.

Sorry for being so gross, but I cannot un-see or un-hear those comments made by Little Tommy.

Expand full comment

Sadly.... I agree. They can't "control", manipulate or gaslight an adult partner. BTW, many of those arrested are married with their own children.

Expand full comment

🤣🤣

Expand full comment

(This is such a serious issue, but I admit that I absolutely LOVED your comment!)

Expand full comment

Ema, excellent comments. What you've said about Tommy never even occurred to me. Now I'm ALSO creeped out by him. I don't go on "X" anymore because of a hacking issue, so I'm glad that you mentioned this. You're right about authority figures. Seems to me that as each day goes by, one more authority figure "likes children" more and more (if you get my drift),

Expand full comment

Subjugation: Decades to change in the 20th Century. Two decades to regress in the 21st Century. Is this truly by the people when left in the laps of appointed judges?

Expand full comment