In advance of January 6, Mike Pence relied on the advice of highly esteemed conservative jurist and former Fourth Circuit Judge Michael Luttig, when he was pressed by Trump to interfere with certification of the Electoral College vote for Biden. But reading the tea leaves from Judge Luttig’s essay in the
Wow... I hadn't read Judge Luttig's essay. Thanks Joyce, for breaking it down. Poor Pence. he seems like such a hapless lad... twisting and turning like a spineless windsock in the political wind.
pence is a spineless coward searching for power and trying to pull off slimy moves like his traitorous orange predecessor. It's pitiful that he will run for President yet refuse to honor a lawful subpoena. What a flopping fish.
The problem is not with Pence refusing the subpoena, it is with the DOJ not hauling him into custody and fining him $10,000 a day until he testifies..As well with the others..The response to these "Lawful Subpoenas" is what is called where I grew up "A Fuck You." And the DOJ does nothing.
Soooo depressing! WHAT WAS THE MATTER WITH GARLAND??! I was hoping against hope last year, when there was still plenty of time, that Biden would replace him. I hope I am wrong and that things will eventually happen the way they should. But every time I think of him, I feel down. Blame the nasty mitchmcdonald for now allowing Obama to put him on the Supreme Court. That sounds like a much more suitable place for him.
If you or I were a material witness in a high profile federal criminal case involving 18 U.S. Code §2384 Seditious Conspiracy and defied a Grand Jury Subpoena we would be in custody in minutes..There is nothing special or different about Mike Pence..Smith has made a court filing to compel him to testify.. He should have been arrested and locked up..Whatever is causing him not to be arrested, and this hoop jumping filling to be made is political not legal..It’s bullshit!
Regarding the you or I part, I am certain..however, regarding Pence, I would not call it conjecture, I would simply admit that it is my opinion based on past observation of the DOJ..Considering the severity of the circumstances, I have yet to see anyone who has defied a Grad Jury Subpoena in this or related matters be be dealt with accordingly, as if it were you or I..Perhaps I've missed it..Can you name one for me?
From the Judge's article, Pence says “For me, this is a moment where you have to decide where you stand, and I stand on the Constitution of the United States.” He certainly is standing ON the Constitution; methinks most of us would want to stand WITH the Constitution.
He doesn’t understand the difference. He has little character -shown by his daily debasement before his dear leader. Who could possibly look at him to hold any office anywhere? No leadership, he only grovels at the feet of anyone who will give him attention.
This is 100 percent correct, and thank you for pointing out that there are not two sides to the non-controversy created by the former President and his supplicants. Mike Pence will have to testify, and will probably take the Fifth and find lawyers more than willing to support his obfuscatory efforts. Trump certainly has. Thank you, as usual, for being so supportive of the rule of law; I often lose the ability to remain so resolute, so I appreciate your steadfast respect even more.
Thank you for focusing our attention on the very hopeful notion that there is no legitimate interpretation of Trump’s behavior regarding the election nor of Pence’s attempts to shield him.
It’s sad and frustrating that Pence doesn’t see that he could go down in history as a hero rather than as the spineless hypocrite that he is showing himself to be.
Thank you Joyce for always giving us clear analysis of the situation. I’ve learned a lot from you.
History continues to be rewritten. What I didn't realize is that it has always been rewritten (I watch old Westerns as much as they warp history - story lines are simple but, brother, it's not close to realistic (thank goodness)). We're pretty old here and I'm going to safely put books of the times in our attic so whoever lives here after us will find treasures. We found some really cool soldiers toys in iron under a shed in one of our houses built in 1895 and the toys reflect it. Hope the same happens here.
I don't think he would go down as a hero in anyone's books who knows HIS history. But for people who don't know much about his toadying to the Orange Sadist for 4 years prior to that time, they probably will.
Judge Luttig is a very interesting man, George W. Bush chose Alito and Thomas over him for the SCOTUS. Hindsight is 20/20 I know, but what a mistake that was. I am a liberal and probably wouldn't agree with a lot of his views, but I think as a judge he would be more like Scalia and Burger both of whom he clerked for and assisted. I think he would always put country over any pollical feeling he might harbor or party and prove to be more ethical than Alito, Thomas, Robert, Gorsuch, Barrett, or Kavanaugh.
All I ever think of Pence is how he debased himself daily to his dear leader. And that he desperately tried to find folks to allow him to overthrow those ballots. And now he ends with calling the special prosecutor’s subpoena the “Biden DOJ subpoena”. How many times must he show us what a tiny little man he is. As a side note, he speaks like he’s constipated and it’s hurting getting his words out. Of course this is the person Trump chose for his VP - a mealy-mouthed devotee with no integrity, honesty or decency.
Very well said. Pence is another member of the "My Pathetically Weak Ego Craves Power At ALL COSTS" Club.
Pence and Kevin McCarthy are prominent members of that Republican club, who have used the Constitution to wipe their muddy, bloody shoes on, after having taken an oath to uphold it on behalf of 330 million Americans whose lives are in their hands.
Thank you. I don't subscribe to NYT (I choked after the 2016 election coverage and dropped it) but do subscribe to WaPo and I'm happy to use my guest articles in just this way.
I really wonder what Mike Pence will choose to do in the end, whether or not aided by his lawyers.
Whatever his course, this will be a great lesson in the law for all of us and... for Donald Trump. Thank you ever so much Joyce, as ever. Wouldn't we all love to have Judge Luttig and You in our corner.
Yes, I was thinking that same thing. His piece in The NY Times reads like a direct challenge from a powerful voice (Gandalf?) for the courts to execute their decision the right way and with lightning speed.
It was great to see Luttig blasting Pence. When I look at this stuff, I'm always aware I'm watching two images. Pence still is obviously attached the the base. I hope it ends quickly. Wish we could just air Luttig's statements on fox, twitter, youtube, and fb ...
Read Judge Luttig’s op-ed. Thanks for the analysis. We’ll have to wait & see if Pence’s lawyers read it. Just IMHO I think Pence is hurting his presidential chances more by refusing to testify than if he did. (Not that he would ever be elected POTUS either way.)
In ordinary times, I'd say that there's no aspiring president who's less presidential than Mike Pence, but in these times he's got plenty of competition. He was a mediocre governor. Reportedly he was one of only three Republicans willing to consider being Trump's VP. And as VP he was a complete toady. Only in the current Republican crop would he even be considered a possibility.
If he can write a book and go on speaking tours($$$$) he damn well can get his wimpy self in and testify. With or without mother.
Wow... I hadn't read Judge Luttig's essay. Thanks Joyce, for breaking it down. Poor Pence. he seems like such a hapless lad... twisting and turning like a spineless windsock in the political wind.
pence is a spineless coward searching for power and trying to pull off slimy moves like his traitorous orange predecessor. It's pitiful that he will run for President yet refuse to honor a lawful subpoena. What a flopping fish.
The problem is not with Pence refusing the subpoena, it is with the DOJ not hauling him into custody and fining him $10,000 a day until he testifies..As well with the others..The response to these "Lawful Subpoenas" is what is called where I grew up "A Fuck You." And the DOJ does nothing.
Here's hoping that Jack Smith does the right thing.
Soooo depressing! WHAT WAS THE MATTER WITH GARLAND??! I was hoping against hope last year, when there was still plenty of time, that Biden would replace him. I hope I am wrong and that things will eventually happen the way they should. But every time I think of him, I feel down. Blame the nasty mitchmcdonald for now allowing Obama to put him on the Supreme Court. That sounds like a much more suitable place for him.
Check Tutone's post above for clarification.
Not sure what clarification you are referring to. Would you kindly explain? Thanks!
“it is Jack Smith’s hands not Merrick Garlands.
It is in Jack Smith’s hands, not Garland’s at this point.
If you or I were a material witness in a high profile federal criminal case involving 18 U.S. Code §2384 Seditious Conspiracy and defied a Grand Jury Subpoena we would be in custody in minutes..There is nothing special or different about Mike Pence..Smith has made a court filing to compel him to testify.. He should have been arrested and locked up..Whatever is causing him not to be arrested, and this hoop jumping filling to be made is political not legal..It’s bullshit!
Hope I am wrong, but "White Privilege" "Rich Privilege" "Lawyer Privilege" name others.
That is conjecture on your part. It is not based on fact.
Regarding the you or I part, I am certain..however, regarding Pence, I would not call it conjecture, I would simply admit that it is my opinion based on past observation of the DOJ..Considering the severity of the circumstances, I have yet to see anyone who has defied a Grad Jury Subpoena in this or related matters be be dealt with accordingly, as if it were you or I..Perhaps I've missed it..Can you name one for me?
But it's taken SO long to go into the right hands!
Perhaps Pence is just as cunning as FPOTUS but just has a different cover.
I was told this years ago.
I said bright, not intelligent.
Perhaps. Cunning, yes. Intelligent, no.
LOL
From the Judge's article, Pence says “For me, this is a moment where you have to decide where you stand, and I stand on the Constitution of the United States.” He certainly is standing ON the Constitution; methinks most of us would want to stand WITH the Constitution.
He doesn’t understand the difference. He has little character -shown by his daily debasement before his dear leader. Who could possibly look at him to hold any office anywhere? No leadership, he only grovels at the feet of anyone who will give him attention.
and he is pathetic in his efforts.
one can hope he wiped off the soles of his shoes when he chose to stand ON the constitution...
LOL!
one can hope... 😈
Well said!!
😀🇺🇸
This is 100 percent correct, and thank you for pointing out that there are not two sides to the non-controversy created by the former President and his supplicants. Mike Pence will have to testify, and will probably take the Fifth and find lawyers more than willing to support his obfuscatory efforts. Trump certainly has. Thank you, as usual, for being so supportive of the rule of law; I often lose the ability to remain so resolute, so I appreciate your steadfast respect even more.
Thank you for focusing our attention on the very hopeful notion that there is no legitimate interpretation of Trump’s behavior regarding the election nor of Pence’s attempts to shield him.
It’s sad and frustrating that Pence doesn’t see that he could go down in history as a hero rather than as the spineless hypocrite that he is showing himself to be.
Thank you Joyce for always giving us clear analysis of the situation. I’ve learned a lot from you.
History continues to be rewritten. What I didn't realize is that it has always been rewritten (I watch old Westerns as much as they warp history - story lines are simple but, brother, it's not close to realistic (thank goodness)). We're pretty old here and I'm going to safely put books of the times in our attic so whoever lives here after us will find treasures. We found some really cool soldiers toys in iron under a shed in one of our houses built in 1895 and the toys reflect it. Hope the same happens here.
I love your idea.
I don't think he would go down as a hero in anyone's books who knows HIS history. But for people who don't know much about his toadying to the Orange Sadist for 4 years prior to that time, they probably will.
Agree.
Judge Luttig is a very interesting man, George W. Bush chose Alito and Thomas over him for the SCOTUS. Hindsight is 20/20 I know, but what a mistake that was. I am a liberal and probably wouldn't agree with a lot of his views, but I think as a judge he would be more like Scalia and Burger both of whom he clerked for and assisted. I think he would always put country over any pollical feeling he might harbor or party and prove to be more ethical than Alito, Thomas, Robert, Gorsuch, Barrett, or Kavanaugh.
A field mouse is more ethical that Alito, Thomas, Roberts, Gorsuch or Barret or Kavanaugh. Hell, an amoeba is more ethical.
I agree. Although I do think that Roberts is on the level of a field mouse.
Hahahahahahahahahahah
Alito's challenge was putting the law before his ego. He seldom saw a precedent that cast a longer shadow than his own opinion.
Alito is a truly disgusting political animal and has NO business on the SCOTUS.
There are solutions..
None of them do. Russian operatives. IMHO.
I don't know about all of them..However, "The Pelican Brief" was such a good movie...Don't you think?
One of Grisham’s BEST!
All I ever think of Pence is how he debased himself daily to his dear leader. And that he desperately tried to find folks to allow him to overthrow those ballots. And now he ends with calling the special prosecutor’s subpoena the “Biden DOJ subpoena”. How many times must he show us what a tiny little man he is. As a side note, he speaks like he’s constipated and it’s hurting getting his words out. Of course this is the person Trump chose for his VP - a mealy-mouthed devotee with no integrity, honesty or decency.
Very well said. Pence is another member of the "My Pathetically Weak Ego Craves Power At ALL COSTS" Club.
Pence and Kevin McCarthy are prominent members of that Republican club, who have used the Constitution to wipe their muddy, bloody shoes on, after having taken an oath to uphold it on behalf of 330 million Americans whose lives are in their hands.
they way he speaks draws you in and holds you, he knows exactly what he is doing.
Doesn’t hold or draw me in at all. As I said, more like he’s constipated.
just how I see Max, just my opinion, don't mean to question yours.
Back at you!
Gift link to Luttig op-ed
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/24/opinion/mike-pence-grand-jury.html?unlocked_article_code=EB_ZZoIPCatCjUmpHtxhzi5upmuyTNDiAMoZybR6FolM8rrFDLPZHdJBpSDdXLlsQdHpqxlOyFdDoElYBbUUud8JQzRgrA1T4iEPh7endV6LGgSV3FRztVJTgs5o_3d2PL1T2Vi-3FhDy_Fm2Zo10lx9s49gf0MyXERcunXIMyAAFKipJvZvHDS2Jie5d436aK0u1LLbWG37r9GqnxWGZeGGoMm0_7Cq4LGSy2rf1E05joqMqH-ofqiRGeE_6x4i1ZRSSpIdwC0lUoju-pkqsROnkKSiGFuI4K533IPswCxHpr4cKiWHQ2-hOk4nGe6qXJm6s_5jY7Z0T06hEdc&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Thank you. I don't subscribe to NYT (I choked after the 2016 election coverage and dropped it) but do subscribe to WaPo and I'm happy to use my guest articles in just this way.
Thank you for gifting us this link to the full article. It was informative and gave me new respect for Judge Luttig.
Thank you!!
Thank you for gifting this link to us.
Thank you!!
Thank you!
Thank you Joy!
I really wonder what Mike Pence will choose to do in the end, whether or not aided by his lawyers.
Whatever his course, this will be a great lesson in the law for all of us and... for Donald Trump. Thank you ever so much Joyce, as ever. Wouldn't we all love to have Judge Luttig and You in our corner.
It should not be a choice, but rather at the hands of the U.S. Marshals Service or whoever is responsible for seeing to it that people are compelled..
9 am, Monday morning, with forewarning to the local media...
Wow! Excellent. Thanks. Do you think this is also a warning to the Supreme Court?
Yes, I was thinking that same thing. His piece in The NY Times reads like a direct challenge from a powerful voice (Gandalf?) for the courts to execute their decision the right way and with lightning speed.
Yes! (And hello from Maury!)
🤣🤗
Doubt they care.
It was great to see Luttig blasting Pence. When I look at this stuff, I'm always aware I'm watching two images. Pence still is obviously attached the the base. I hope it ends quickly. Wish we could just air Luttig's statements on fox, twitter, youtube, and fb ...
Luttig, a Country first kind of guy..Unlike the party hack he writes about..
Read Judge Luttig’s op-ed. Thanks for the analysis. We’ll have to wait & see if Pence’s lawyers read it. Just IMHO I think Pence is hurting his presidential chances more by refusing to testify than if he did. (Not that he would ever be elected POTUS either way.)
In ordinary times, I'd say that there's no aspiring president who's less presidential than Mike Pence, but in these times he's got plenty of competition. He was a mediocre governor. Reportedly he was one of only three Republicans willing to consider being Trump's VP. And as VP he was a complete toady. Only in the current Republican crop would he even be considered a possibility.
I would not like to stand before Judge Luttig's desk on any matter, much less this one.
Except when you're right.
Love seeing you here, LKTIV. I'm always glad to find people I respect in the same book, if not exactly on the same page. ;-)
Great inside view of the system, Joyce.