We start with chickens, because these two are too sweet not to share, and also because Donald Trump’s transparent efforts to delay justice are so frustrating that we need something soothing before we get into tonight’s discussion.
You are one of the most eloquent voices here. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy should be taught in schools across this country. Maybe then people will grasp the reasons why labor laws and regulations are necessary - to save innocent lives.
Only those who care about people other than themselves.
(from Wikipedia) Hamlet chicken processing plant fire:The deep fryer in the Imperial Food Products plant where the fire started. Date: September 3, 1991; Time: Approximately 8:15 a.m.; Location: Hamlet, North Carolina, United States; Type: Industrial fire; Cause: Uncoupled hose leaking hydraulic fluid ignited by fryer, workers were trapped by locked doors; Deaths: 25; Non-fatal injuries: 54; Inquest: United States Fire Administration; Convicted: Emmett J. Roe, plant owner; Charges: 25 counts of involuntary manslaughter; Verdict: Plead guilty; Sentence: 19 years, 11 months (paroled after about 4 years)
Please note the date and the number of deaths. Why isn't this one remembered, even though it happened in most of our lifetimes? Only 25 died? or all workers were darker skinned?
Was 4 years a reasonable jail time for a negligent owner who purchased an old ice cream factory and was too greedy and selfish to complete the needed repairs before locking 79 workers in a death trap so they 'couldn't sneak out' for a break. Nothing will change, Patris until WE value all lives.
I can’t “like” this because holy hell you are right. Why isn’t this much more widely known??? Horrendous conditions- how were the doors locked?? The most basic safety concept I can imagine?? 1991? Where on earth was I that I cannot recall this catastrophic loss of life??
OSHA is seriously understaffed. I have to research this now to understand how this is and where the budget is for these critical inspectors. It needs attention now, or there will be more of these events.
Thank you, Patris. I don't know why I remember this, but I always have. Maybe because it was around the same time as a clothing factory in India (Bengal I believe) happened around the same time and several hundred women and children burned to death in a locked building. In all three cases the owners and manager weren't there. I don't know what, if any penalties were handed out, but they certainly weren't sufficient to prevent future occurrences. Other horrific examples of greed are undocumented immigrant children under the age of 15 being killed in meat and dairy processing factories by machinery too large and complicated for children to handle (but who cares? they're undocs , right) - this was during trump's reign of terror. The Hamlet fire was during HW Bush's administration.
Joyce and Robert Reich are correct - we NEED unions. The only time when workers have a modicum of safety and "living" wages is when we have strong unions.
In my home State of California we had workers die in enormous empty oil depositories - they were sent to "clean". The list goes on.
It’s a nightmare litany of profit over life. And always the conclusion seems to be a brief moment of ‘concern’ - then - nothing!
One of the reasons I find Texas so abhorrent is their self-proclaimed rejection of ‘government regulation’ I.e., rules in place in support of few humans being turned into torches for the glory of industry.
We're in agreement here too, Patris. But Texas has a real peculiarity (unless it's changed since 2007 when I was working there). Like all States they are supposed to be a democratically elected representative republic. BUT, the Texas legislature only meets for 80 days ONCE every two years - that's about 11% of the time. The rest of the time they are 'ruled' by their executive alone. That's as close to a dictatorship as we have in America. Being the second largest State in territory (Alaska is first) and the second largest in population (California is first) Texas has 254 counties, in some the jack rabbits and coyotes each out number the human residents. Alaska has only 19 counties (burroghs) but that's understandable a lot of the State is uninhabitable. Here in California we have 58.
Fay, Texas hasn't changed. But the legislature is so deeply red that it's really no different from dictator Abbott. I feel fortunate to live in a blue area (one of only 3 in the state), but I hate all the awful things that Abbott has done, like the razor wire in the Rio Grande.
Thanks for the information, Fay. Maybe the Texax legislature will be forced to change now that so many from California are moving to Texas unless they are moving there because they prefer less government.
Patris, Texas seems to live on the myth of individualism and thinks they don't need the government, or rather only to help them when they have gotten themselves into trouble or climate change causes huge hurricanes or tornados, or blizzards or . . . or . . .. They are essentially "takers" who want to give nothing, refuse regulation, treat workers like dirt, then cry for mommy when their lack of regulation or lack of foresight gets them into a bad situation. And, because they are part of this nation, Mommy comes to help, over and over. For some reason, Texans keep choosing or being pushed into choosing really bad leaders in their most critical state positions, even an indicted criminal Paxton, and senators who care only for themselves and what works for them. I just don't get it.
Yes we DO need unions - we also NEED OSHA! I worked for a construction company that became a construction management co. later - managing jobs with many subcontractors - we had to have a safety guy on each job and HIS job was dealing with OSHA & making sure we were "up to spec" on each job. It was a full time job, too. An inspector came to each job regularly & would leave a list of what was wrong - usually minor things, but it had to be corrected. And yes, these were union subs as were our own employees.
We must have re-investment in OSHA!! What was done during the pandemic in these meat processing "factories" due to tffg was a crime. Literally!! As are the monopolies formed then and since then. I love hearing what Lina Khan at the FTC is doing and trying to do!
Oh, but according to Project 2025, we won’t need those pesky regulatory agencies. They just get in the way of the bottom line for companies and corporations!
Those tragedies should also come under the jurisdiction of the local fire marshal. Code enforcement and OSHA overlap in several instances so it is doubly troubling that this happened. Unions help workers fight these conditions, where unions exist, but we know Trump and P2025 will outlaw unions as soon as they can, a la Reagan.
The Reader's Digest is how I learned about the Shirtwaist factory fire as a child while growing up in the 50s and 60s. I always remembered it. I was horrified that the women with the voluminous skirts, the style of the day, were forced to jump from windows several stories high.
And when all of those people who are willing to work, and if necessary, die, are dead, THEN what will happen to the companies and corporations, and the rich who own them and are shareholders in them? I assume they will die, also, along with planet earth.
Lois, when workers die or are injured, those owners, operators think they can just go out and get more, illegally if necessary, but they will do it as has always been done and they will pretend they didn't know those folks were undocumented. Rich men always seem to find a way until their money is gone, then they blame everyone else.
Fay, thanks for reminding us of that fire. Of course the owner served only 4 years. Rich folks aren't really criminals, you know, the owner just didn't pay enough attention. It was just a mistake, a sad one but . . . . We have all heard it over and over. And, we have a former president who will most likely never be held fully accountable for the many crimes he has committed: rich, white, powerful, and male.
I thought of this yesterday that Trump is not afraid of anything...he just commits an act and afterwards pledes innocent of any charges...this is just how he operates. You know, do it and ask forgiveness after the fact. Instead of asking permission before acting. We must destroy him in this election! My t-shirt says "We the people, She, the President!
I agree with you that the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy should be taught in our schools, but I doubt that it ever will be. That goes totally against everything Project 2025 believes, and even in our public schools as they are (thinking back to what I was taught when I was in school (graduated HS in June 1962), what we got in our history classes never went as far as the civil war, and were basically propaganda to get us to see the country through eyes that don't see the truth.
I learned about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire in 7th or 8th grade. It was discussed at length in class. That was in the mid 50s. I went to school in NJ.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire shocked the people of that time because the two factory owners escaped, while scores of young women died because exits were locked. They burned to death or jumped out windows and died of their injuries.
As a former teacher, I feel that labor history should be a course in high schools, and as such, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire would be an important piece of that. I am not sure where I learned of it, but it was more from my own reading, than my studies.
Linda, I didn't learn about the Triangle fire until I was teaching. I found an article about it and shared it with my students who were horrified, but there was no library for them to do any investigating. Some had computers so did research and shared it with their friends. I read several books about it and each time I think about it, I am horrified all over again. I just read a novelized life of Frances Perkins who said that witnessing the deaths of the women at Triangle added to her desire to reform the situations for working people. FDR knew of her near obsession for workers and appointed her as the first female Secretary of Labor, the first female member of a president's cabinet. The book about Perkins is "Becoming Madam Secretary" by Stephanie Dray. It is amazing how many critical things we don't learn about in our history classes. I took a class on WWII when I was in high school and never learned about Japanese internment. When in school, I never learned about the 1918 flu and when I finally did after college, I had no idea how important such knowledge would be to me as we faced our own pandemic. I get it that we can't teach everything in history class because there is just so much, but events that changed the course of history would be very important to know.
Ruth, you remind us that it is important to be lifelong learners because there is always going to be something we did not learn. I feel that we have waves of what is in in education, and labor history has not been in at many periods. Perhaps it is time to revive that. Of course, DeSantis would say that making factory owner's children feel bad is not acceptable in the curriculum, but I think we need to get rid of him so that Florida can stop being Project 2025 Florida style.
Linda, I am still shocked that anyone voted for DeSantis. He has no positive personal qualities, seems only to see how many ways he can hurt people, and just makes up things he can do to go after the groups of people he hates, but doesn't know anyone from those groups since he is wrapped up with being white, even though he is from a recent immigrant family, supposedly is not LGBTQ, and doesn't get that many immigrants to his state. I guess the confederacy is still alive down there in FL and the people are so busy pretending they're not racist, they elected one and let him do as much harm as he had in his power to people of color. I get it that the FL Cuban Americans are for him since they are working really hard to be considered white (not the Black Cuban Americans though). Amazing!
Just an FYI. I did learn about The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire when I attended the Fashion Institute of Technology in NYC. We learned about the importance of working with the fashion industry unions. ILGWU for one!
Patris, you are so right about the Triangle fire. Until that time, the women who worked in the garment industry, who did amazing work for 12-hour days, were considered expendable. The understanding of the men at the top was that there were always more workers where those came from. Seeing the horrors of that day made people pay attention. The needed changes didn't come immediately, but thinking about many of the regulations began then. Labor Day needs to be valued as more than the end of unofficial summer.
Thank you so much for filling in and explaining the details. That trump is again begging for delays to prevent voters from the facts they deserve is not at all surprising. Infuriating, yes, but not surprising. I don't believe Judge Chutkan will fall for his obvious ploys.
I'm hoping Judge Chutki⁶n is committed to a just and timely procedure. Let's move forward with Jack Smiths material so the judge can make an informed decision.
A few weeks of an evidentiary hearing shouldn't be a problem for the winningest candidate ever. Heck, he doesn't even have to attend! He can spend all his time on social media, providing distraction from the proceedings. That should be fun.
Let's go, Judge. Justice delayed is justice denied.
This on-and-forever justice system works well for the wealthy but is the reason many innocent poor people plead guilty and make a deal, even when it means jail time if they are unable to pay fees and fines.
Thank you for leading with the chickens. It is always a pleasure to see them! Today I happened to see your IG post on the knitting project you took with you to Scotland and completed, a gorgeous piece of work.
In this issue, regarding the upcoming case, this sentence was particularly infuriating:
"[...] the argument that, “sure, I pressured Mike Pence to refuse to certify the election for Joe Biden after we lost so we could take over the government anyway” isn’t exactly a compelling one. And yet, that’s the essence of the position Trump’s lawyers take." Still, I hope justice will eventually prevail.
Thank you for the reminder about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy. I have never forgotten it ever since I learned about it, either from you and/or Dr. Heather Cox Richardson, and how it inspired Frances Perkins to become a pivotal force in improving working conditions and contributed to her place in history as US Secretary of Labor.
He is and has always been a coward and a bully,he only cares about himself.He used these tactics to keep from paying people he owed back in the day,he would delay and delay until people who sued him went broke and lost everything,then they were offered pennies on the dollar when they had no other choice but to settle.(Remember he tried that in his trial this summer?I believe it surprised him when it didn't work anymore.)
He hates our federal government,that's why he and his minions want it dismantled.He is trying to delay long enough to steal the election,so he can get it all shut down and get away with everything,just like in the old days.
But we have the power to prove him very wrong.We vote and make sure he don't win.Don't let him win by staying home,or voting for an alternative candidate.Vote blue,let's give tfg the biggest boot out of the picture that we can muster.He needs to face the music,and take his medicine.Make sure he gets what he deserves.
I think it’s less about Trump hating the government than his being indifferent to its norms and rules, which, spoiled toddler that he is, he finds tiresome and inconvenient. He didn’t want to be President to govern: he wanted power and authority. Now that SCOTUS has deemed some things as immune from prosecution, Trump wants to stretch that to cover as much as possible to keep himself from actually being punished for his actions.
Melissa, I believe that's the way his father raised him. And apparently his mother agreed or at least had no say in the matter. He has gotten away with unmitigated permission for whatever he has wanted since he was two years old, which is why in so many ways he is still a "terrible two."
He was also taught how to manipulate any situation that threatened to make him have to follow rules he didn't like,or answer to things he wanted to go away,and in most instances,money was the answer.He learned early that everyone has a price.
It's driving him insane that he can't buy off the prosecutors or judges in New York or Georgia,to get them to drop everything so he can get off scot-free like he's accustomed to.He wants everything under his full control.That is why it is so dangerous to allow him to become president again.He wants rules that apply to everyone else except him.To do as he pleases,when he pleases,how he pleases,and no one can say No to him ever again.
Yes,much like a child would think.We who have raised or dealt with kids,have heard them say,When I grow up nobody can tell me what to do.Which isn't really true,which we find out pretty quickly we still have to answer to people,and follow rules we may or may not like.He thinks like a child,and wasn't taught any different way to think about being an adult.He also didn't have to suffer consequences until fairly recently,and brother is he not happy! Consequences are for others,never him.Others should lose,never him.He isn't liking the reality that that really isn't as true as he thought.
Spiderman was told,With great power comes great responsibility,and Christ said,To whom much is given much is required.Trump was never taught those things,and right now he is learning what the rest of us already know.And he isn't liking it one bit.
Personally speaking,I believe he needs a whole lot more time in the School of Hard Knocks.It's pleasurable to watch him squirm under what he imposed on so many others very unfairly and unjustly.It's about time he's getting what he's had coming to him.
As I heard often in past posts comments, it is beyond appalling and annoying, how this evil man is able to delay justice, time and time again. If anything needs to be changed in our laws, it should be a time limit on how many times a person can delay their trial. That would even out the playing field, so to Speak.
Thank you again for condensing the upcoming issues.
I don't understand the appeal process. Surely he's not the only person to abuse it.
Can anyone appeal any judicial decision for any reason whatsoever. Is there no process that identifies "frivolous" appeals? No process for "evasive appeals"?
Trump can't be the only rich crook to pull this stunt. Can the judicial system really be tied up in knots so easily?
One of most demoralizing aspects of Trumpism is witnessing first hand how he can bend the judicial system to his will.
I've never had a close up view of this kind of thing before. Its been an education. So far, its convinced me that very very bad actors with money can in fact get away with very bad crimes and go scot-free. Justice does not prevail, not even close.
I'd like a $$$ amount thats been spent trying to make Trump accountable.
I fear that money can buy almost anything, except morality and a conscience. Neither of which T has. Unless something is put into place to stop "continual" appeals, we are bound to see this continuing. There is all ready talk of how T can delay future trials with the tactics he has used so far. I fear he will never be brought to justice. A true stain on our judicial system.
All this legal wrangling and then he goes on TV with Mark Levin and out and out ADMITS TO HIS CRIME! I wish Mr. Smith would craft another superseding indictment with that admission as making a prima facie case for his criminality and therefore the new indictment.
This review and analysis is excellent. Thank you, Joyce.
I am struggling with the matter of immunity. As SCOTUS ruled, Trump will be immune for all OFFICIAL ACTS. But there is a caveat here. He must have been acting in an OFFICIAL capacity. So, can he be judged immune if not holding office? Doesn't this clearly beg the question?
Seems to me that he was not in office when he paid hush money to silence Stormy so that his chances of winning the 2016 election would not be compromised or jeopardized. So why is this still an issue? Not being in office means, by definition, that all of Trump's actions are UNOFFICIAL.
trump was not in office when he silenced Stormy Daniels. If he is using immunity in that case, it's just more of his BS. The thing that bugs me is that he is apparently saying that anything he did while in the white house was an official act, even when most of us would not see the behavior as that. He seems to be trying to make even his candidate/campaign activities into official presidential activities, which they aren't no matter where he was when he engaged in them.
I have thought about the Stormy Daniels case overnight, and realized that there was one witness - Hope Hicks - to whom his immunity might apply. He would use that to try to throw out the whole case, even though she was a minor witness and lack of her testimony wouldn't change the outcome of the case.
Incredible to think Trump's lawyers are ready to admit what he did so he can invoke immunity for doing it!
Is this kind of immunity available to governors and mayors and other executives? Every official in an executive branch of government will soon want some of that secret sauce!
We can all be grateful that Jack Smith and his team persist despite the machinations of SCOTUS, Trump, Trump's legal team (oops, that's SCOTUS again), right-wing media, an indifferent/cynical public, etc.
Counterfactual imagining: IF Congressional Republicans had followed through w/ impeachment, investigations, truth-telling; IF Merrick Garland hadn't been afraid of his own shadow; IF James Comey had revealed the national security and related issues with both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in 2016; IF Mitch McConnell weren't such a corrupt suck-up; IF country had come before party, politics, and power. Sigh.
I mostly look forward and accept this history for what it was, so it's back to work for all of us to get out the vote! When Democrats vote, everybody wins.
Apart from the labor and safety laws enacted first in NY after the tragedy, and subsequently swept into federal law during the New Deal, it's well worth remembering that most of the 500 employed, and the 146 killed, at this $6/week, 13-hour daily shift hazardous job were recent Italian and Jewish immigrants.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire occurred 1911. Locked exit doors imprisoned workers in a burning building. But that fire did NOT permanently prevent such tragedies. In 1991 The Hamlet Chicken Plant Fire in NC repeated the tragedy. We have come a LONG way in keeping our workers healthy & safe, but perhaps not far enough. I spent 40 years trying to do that! Labor Day is very meaningful.
Thank you for reminding me of last year’s Labor Day Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire essay, which I earmarked as being important to the Labor movement now being reborn. It certainly is more worth remembering today than the endless chicanery of MAGA&Co., as are Toots and Pickles.
Hopefully, the currently empaneled Grand Jury will issue a few additional indictments against previously unindicted conspirators and they will initiate separate criminal action(s) against those defendants.
You are one of the most eloquent voices here. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy should be taught in schools across this country. Maybe then people will grasp the reasons why labor laws and regulations are necessary - to save innocent lives.
Only those who care about people other than themselves.
(from Wikipedia) Hamlet chicken processing plant fire:The deep fryer in the Imperial Food Products plant where the fire started. Date: September 3, 1991; Time: Approximately 8:15 a.m.; Location: Hamlet, North Carolina, United States; Type: Industrial fire; Cause: Uncoupled hose leaking hydraulic fluid ignited by fryer, workers were trapped by locked doors; Deaths: 25; Non-fatal injuries: 54; Inquest: United States Fire Administration; Convicted: Emmett J. Roe, plant owner; Charges: 25 counts of involuntary manslaughter; Verdict: Plead guilty; Sentence: 19 years, 11 months (paroled after about 4 years)
Please note the date and the number of deaths. Why isn't this one remembered, even though it happened in most of our lifetimes? Only 25 died? or all workers were darker skinned?
Was 4 years a reasonable jail time for a negligent owner who purchased an old ice cream factory and was too greedy and selfish to complete the needed repairs before locking 79 workers in a death trap so they 'couldn't sneak out' for a break. Nothing will change, Patris until WE value all lives.
I can’t “like” this because holy hell you are right. Why isn’t this much more widely known??? Horrendous conditions- how were the doors locked?? The most basic safety concept I can imagine?? 1991? Where on earth was I that I cannot recall this catastrophic loss of life??
OSHA is seriously understaffed. I have to research this now to understand how this is and where the budget is for these critical inspectors. It needs attention now, or there will be more of these events.
Thank you, Patris. I don't know why I remember this, but I always have. Maybe because it was around the same time as a clothing factory in India (Bengal I believe) happened around the same time and several hundred women and children burned to death in a locked building. In all three cases the owners and manager weren't there. I don't know what, if any penalties were handed out, but they certainly weren't sufficient to prevent future occurrences. Other horrific examples of greed are undocumented immigrant children under the age of 15 being killed in meat and dairy processing factories by machinery too large and complicated for children to handle (but who cares? they're undocs , right) - this was during trump's reign of terror. The Hamlet fire was during HW Bush's administration.
Joyce and Robert Reich are correct - we NEED unions. The only time when workers have a modicum of safety and "living" wages is when we have strong unions.
In my home State of California we had workers die in enormous empty oil depositories - they were sent to "clean". The list goes on.
It’s a nightmare litany of profit over life. And always the conclusion seems to be a brief moment of ‘concern’ - then - nothing!
One of the reasons I find Texas so abhorrent is their self-proclaimed rejection of ‘government regulation’ I.e., rules in place in support of few humans being turned into torches for the glory of industry.
We're in agreement here too, Patris. But Texas has a real peculiarity (unless it's changed since 2007 when I was working there). Like all States they are supposed to be a democratically elected representative republic. BUT, the Texas legislature only meets for 80 days ONCE every two years - that's about 11% of the time. The rest of the time they are 'ruled' by their executive alone. That's as close to a dictatorship as we have in America. Being the second largest State in territory (Alaska is first) and the second largest in population (California is first) Texas has 254 counties, in some the jack rabbits and coyotes each out number the human residents. Alaska has only 19 counties (burroghs) but that's understandable a lot of the State is uninhabitable. Here in California we have 58.
Fay, Texas hasn't changed. But the legislature is so deeply red that it's really no different from dictator Abbott. I feel fortunate to live in a blue area (one of only 3 in the state), but I hate all the awful things that Abbott has done, like the razor wire in the Rio Grande.
Thanks for the information, Fay. Maybe the Texax legislature will be forced to change now that so many from California are moving to Texas unless they are moving there because they prefer less government.
Patris, Texas seems to live on the myth of individualism and thinks they don't need the government, or rather only to help them when they have gotten themselves into trouble or climate change causes huge hurricanes or tornados, or blizzards or . . . or . . .. They are essentially "takers" who want to give nothing, refuse regulation, treat workers like dirt, then cry for mommy when their lack of regulation or lack of foresight gets them into a bad situation. And, because they are part of this nation, Mommy comes to help, over and over. For some reason, Texans keep choosing or being pushed into choosing really bad leaders in their most critical state positions, even an indicted criminal Paxton, and senators who care only for themselves and what works for them. I just don't get it.
It’s baked in. The myths.
Yes we DO need unions - we also NEED OSHA! I worked for a construction company that became a construction management co. later - managing jobs with many subcontractors - we had to have a safety guy on each job and HIS job was dealing with OSHA & making sure we were "up to spec" on each job. It was a full time job, too. An inspector came to each job regularly & would leave a list of what was wrong - usually minor things, but it had to be corrected. And yes, these were union subs as were our own employees.
We must have re-investment in OSHA!! What was done during the pandemic in these meat processing "factories" due to tffg was a crime. Literally!! As are the monopolies formed then and since then. I love hearing what Lina Khan at the FTC is doing and trying to do!
Amen
Fay, I think the clothing factory fire was in Bangladesh. I am not positive, but I remember the event.
I think the reference is to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in NYC in 1911:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire
With depressing regularity there.
Oh, but according to Project 2025, we won’t need those pesky regulatory agencies. They just get in the way of the bottom line for companies and corporations!
Tesla moved to Texas because it’s a “right to work state” Elon would like to get all his manufacturing out of CA and away from labor unions
He needs a person who can discuss humanity with him.
Those tragedies should also come under the jurisdiction of the local fire marshal. Code enforcement and OSHA overlap in several instances so it is doubly troubling that this happened. Unions help workers fight these conditions, where unions exist, but we know Trump and P2025 will outlaw unions as soon as they can, a la Reagan.
How did I not know about this one. Devastating.
The Reader's Digest is how I learned about the Shirtwaist factory fire as a child while growing up in the 50s and 60s. I always remembered it. I was horrified that the women with the voluminous skirts, the style of the day, were forced to jump from windows several stories high.
And when all of those people who are willing to work, and if necessary, die, are dead, THEN what will happen to the companies and corporations, and the rich who own them and are shareholders in them? I assume they will die, also, along with planet earth.
Lois, when workers die or are injured, those owners, operators think they can just go out and get more, illegally if necessary, but they will do it as has always been done and they will pretend they didn't know those folks were undocumented. Rich men always seem to find a way until their money is gone, then they blame everyone else.
Fay, thanks for reminding us of that fire. Of course the owner served only 4 years. Rich folks aren't really criminals, you know, the owner just didn't pay enough attention. It was just a mistake, a sad one but . . . . We have all heard it over and over. And, we have a former president who will most likely never be held fully accountable for the many crimes he has committed: rich, white, powerful, and male.
I thought of this yesterday that Trump is not afraid of anything...he just commits an act and afterwards pledes innocent of any charges...this is just how he operates. You know, do it and ask forgiveness after the fact. Instead of asking permission before acting. We must destroy him in this election! My t-shirt says "We the people, She, the President!
I agree with you that the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy should be taught in our schools, but I doubt that it ever will be. That goes totally against everything Project 2025 believes, and even in our public schools as they are (thinking back to what I was taught when I was in school (graduated HS in June 1962), what we got in our history classes never went as far as the civil war, and were basically propaganda to get us to see the country through eyes that don't see the truth.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy was certainly taught to me in my school when I was young. Social Studies!
Not in mine - I knew of tragedies at work sites only through family stories of those who died..
In mine, too, Dan -- in the late 1960s.
Mine also- late 60’s!
I'm glad your school taught it. My only memory of it came from an adult era encounter.
Mine, too, Susan. but then, by the late 60's I was graduating from college.
I learned about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire in 7th or 8th grade. It was discussed at length in class. That was in the mid 50s. I went to school in NJ.
Let's see - I was in the 7th grade in 1963 or so. I do not remember anything at all during my school years about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.
Clearly my parents should not have moved us from NJ to CA in 1952. I think NJ has always had better education.
Ah! But I, too, lived in NJ and attended public schools K-12.
We learned about the Triangle Shirtwaist factory tragedy first in junior high, then in more detail in high school. Class of '72 here.
I’m glad - I spent high school and a college year abroad - it wasn’t discussed and I think I’d remember
Yes
Learned about it in school in Oklahoma, circa 1968.
Good on Oklahoma!
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire shocked the people of that time because the two factory owners escaped, while scores of young women died because exits were locked. They burned to death or jumped out windows and died of their injuries.
Hear Hear!!
As a former teacher, I feel that labor history should be a course in high schools, and as such, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire would be an important piece of that. I am not sure where I learned of it, but it was more from my own reading, than my studies.
Linda, I didn't learn about the Triangle fire until I was teaching. I found an article about it and shared it with my students who were horrified, but there was no library for them to do any investigating. Some had computers so did research and shared it with their friends. I read several books about it and each time I think about it, I am horrified all over again. I just read a novelized life of Frances Perkins who said that witnessing the deaths of the women at Triangle added to her desire to reform the situations for working people. FDR knew of her near obsession for workers and appointed her as the first female Secretary of Labor, the first female member of a president's cabinet. The book about Perkins is "Becoming Madam Secretary" by Stephanie Dray. It is amazing how many critical things we don't learn about in our history classes. I took a class on WWII when I was in high school and never learned about Japanese internment. When in school, I never learned about the 1918 flu and when I finally did after college, I had no idea how important such knowledge would be to me as we faced our own pandemic. I get it that we can't teach everything in history class because there is just so much, but events that changed the course of history would be very important to know.
Ruth, you remind us that it is important to be lifelong learners because there is always going to be something we did not learn. I feel that we have waves of what is in in education, and labor history has not been in at many periods. Perhaps it is time to revive that. Of course, DeSantis would say that making factory owner's children feel bad is not acceptable in the curriculum, but I think we need to get rid of him so that Florida can stop being Project 2025 Florida style.
Linda, I am still shocked that anyone voted for DeSantis. He has no positive personal qualities, seems only to see how many ways he can hurt people, and just makes up things he can do to go after the groups of people he hates, but doesn't know anyone from those groups since he is wrapped up with being white, even though he is from a recent immigrant family, supposedly is not LGBTQ, and doesn't get that many immigrants to his state. I guess the confederacy is still alive down there in FL and the people are so busy pretending they're not racist, they elected one and let him do as much harm as he had in his power to people of color. I get it that the FL Cuban Americans are for him since they are working really hard to be considered white (not the Black Cuban Americans though). Amazing!
Just an FYI. I did learn about The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire when I attended the Fashion Institute of Technology in NYC. We learned about the importance of working with the fashion industry unions. ILGWU for one!
Different fire but I suggest listening to Woody’s 1913 Massacre about a fire in Calumet Michigan. https://youtu.be/BxxKWGTtjNM?si=3UzSoRSJEs1X4SAN
Also looked unline - wikepedia tells about it in detail!
Never heard of this one either. Yes labor HISTORY should be a high school course. As many other actual historic happenings!!
Exactly what I was thinking.
Patris, you are so right about the Triangle fire. Until that time, the women who worked in the garment industry, who did amazing work for 12-hour days, were considered expendable. The understanding of the men at the top was that there were always more workers where those came from. Seeing the horrors of that day made people pay attention. The needed changes didn't come immediately, but thinking about many of the regulations began then. Labor Day needs to be valued as more than the end of unofficial summer.
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Thank you so much for filling in and explaining the details. That trump is again begging for delays to prevent voters from the facts they deserve is not at all surprising. Infuriating, yes, but not surprising. I don't believe Judge Chutkan will fall for his obvious ploys.
I'm hoping Judge Chutki⁶n is committed to a just and timely procedure. Let's move forward with Jack Smiths material so the judge can make an informed decision.
A few weeks of an evidentiary hearing shouldn't be a problem for the winningest candidate ever. Heck, he doesn't even have to attend! He can spend all his time on social media, providing distraction from the proceedings. That should be fun.
Let's go, Judge. Justice delayed is justice denied.
This on-and-forever justice system works well for the wealthy but is the reason many innocent poor people plead guilty and make a deal, even when it means jail time if they are unable to pay fees and fines.
I hit like because I’m grateful that you brought up this horrible instance of modern day greed. You point out that greed persists. How cruel.
Thank you for leading with the chickens. It is always a pleasure to see them! Today I happened to see your IG post on the knitting project you took with you to Scotland and completed, a gorgeous piece of work.
In this issue, regarding the upcoming case, this sentence was particularly infuriating:
"[...] the argument that, “sure, I pressured Mike Pence to refuse to certify the election for Joe Biden after we lost so we could take over the government anyway” isn’t exactly a compelling one. And yet, that’s the essence of the position Trump’s lawyers take." Still, I hope justice will eventually prevail.
Thank you for the reminder about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory tragedy. I have never forgotten it ever since I learned about it, either from you and/or Dr. Heather Cox Richardson, and how it inspired Frances Perkins to become a pivotal force in improving working conditions and contributed to her place in history as US Secretary of Labor.
He is and has always been a coward and a bully,he only cares about himself.He used these tactics to keep from paying people he owed back in the day,he would delay and delay until people who sued him went broke and lost everything,then they were offered pennies on the dollar when they had no other choice but to settle.(Remember he tried that in his trial this summer?I believe it surprised him when it didn't work anymore.)
He hates our federal government,that's why he and his minions want it dismantled.He is trying to delay long enough to steal the election,so he can get it all shut down and get away with everything,just like in the old days.
But we have the power to prove him very wrong.We vote and make sure he don't win.Don't let him win by staying home,or voting for an alternative candidate.Vote blue,let's give tfg the biggest boot out of the picture that we can muster.He needs to face the music,and take his medicine.Make sure he gets what he deserves.
I think it’s less about Trump hating the government than his being indifferent to its norms and rules, which, spoiled toddler that he is, he finds tiresome and inconvenient. He didn’t want to be President to govern: he wanted power and authority. Now that SCOTUS has deemed some things as immune from prosecution, Trump wants to stretch that to cover as much as possible to keep himself from actually being punished for his actions.
Sad,but very true.He hates to be told what to do,he wants all the rules to apply to anyone else but him.
Melissa, I believe that's the way his father raised him. And apparently his mother agreed or at least had no say in the matter. He has gotten away with unmitigated permission for whatever he has wanted since he was two years old, which is why in so many ways he is still a "terrible two."
He was also taught how to manipulate any situation that threatened to make him have to follow rules he didn't like,or answer to things he wanted to go away,and in most instances,money was the answer.He learned early that everyone has a price.
It's driving him insane that he can't buy off the prosecutors or judges in New York or Georgia,to get them to drop everything so he can get off scot-free like he's accustomed to.He wants everything under his full control.That is why it is so dangerous to allow him to become president again.He wants rules that apply to everyone else except him.To do as he pleases,when he pleases,how he pleases,and no one can say No to him ever again.
Yes,much like a child would think.We who have raised or dealt with kids,have heard them say,When I grow up nobody can tell me what to do.Which isn't really true,which we find out pretty quickly we still have to answer to people,and follow rules we may or may not like.He thinks like a child,and wasn't taught any different way to think about being an adult.He also didn't have to suffer consequences until fairly recently,and brother is he not happy! Consequences are for others,never him.Others should lose,never him.He isn't liking the reality that that really isn't as true as he thought.
Spiderman was told,With great power comes great responsibility,and Christ said,To whom much is given much is required.Trump was never taught those things,and right now he is learning what the rest of us already know.And he isn't liking it one bit.
Personally speaking,I believe he needs a whole lot more time in the School of Hard Knocks.It's pleasurable to watch him squirm under what he imposed on so many others very unfairly and unjustly.It's about time he's getting what he's had coming to him.
As I heard often in past posts comments, it is beyond appalling and annoying, how this evil man is able to delay justice, time and time again. If anything needs to be changed in our laws, it should be a time limit on how many times a person can delay their trial. That would even out the playing field, so to Speak.
Thank you again for condensing the upcoming issues.
I don't understand the appeal process. Surely he's not the only person to abuse it.
Can anyone appeal any judicial decision for any reason whatsoever. Is there no process that identifies "frivolous" appeals? No process for "evasive appeals"?
Trump can't be the only rich crook to pull this stunt. Can the judicial system really be tied up in knots so easily?
One of most demoralizing aspects of Trumpism is witnessing first hand how he can bend the judicial system to his will.
I've never had a close up view of this kind of thing before. Its been an education. So far, its convinced me that very very bad actors with money can in fact get away with very bad crimes and go scot-free. Justice does not prevail, not even close.
I'd like a $$$ amount thats been spent trying to make Trump accountable.
I fear that money can buy almost anything, except morality and a conscience. Neither of which T has. Unless something is put into place to stop "continual" appeals, we are bound to see this continuing. There is all ready talk of how T can delay future trials with the tactics he has used so far. I fear he will never be brought to justice. A true stain on our judicial system.
All this legal wrangling and then he goes on TV with Mark Levin and out and out ADMITS TO HIS CRIME! I wish Mr. Smith would craft another superseding indictment with that admission as making a prima facie case for his criminality and therefore the new indictment.
This review and analysis is excellent. Thank you, Joyce.
I am struggling with the matter of immunity. As SCOTUS ruled, Trump will be immune for all OFFICIAL ACTS. But there is a caveat here. He must have been acting in an OFFICIAL capacity. So, can he be judged immune if not holding office? Doesn't this clearly beg the question?
Seems to me that he was not in office when he paid hush money to silence Stormy so that his chances of winning the 2016 election would not be compromised or jeopardized. So why is this still an issue? Not being in office means, by definition, that all of Trump's actions are UNOFFICIAL.
WHAT AM I MISSING?
trump was not in office when he silenced Stormy Daniels. If he is using immunity in that case, it's just more of his BS. The thing that bugs me is that he is apparently saying that anything he did while in the white house was an official act, even when most of us would not see the behavior as that. He seems to be trying to make even his candidate/campaign activities into official presidential activities, which they aren't no matter where he was when he engaged in them.
He is desperate to avoid the consequences of his actions…jail and being known as a criminal. That is just too much for his ego.
His Supreme Court cronies have undermined justice being upheld for him. So blatantly wrong!
I have thought about the Stormy Daniels case overnight, and realized that there was one witness - Hope Hicks - to whom his immunity might apply. He would use that to try to throw out the whole case, even though she was a minor witness and lack of her testimony wouldn't change the outcome of the case.
Could he really throw out this entire case because of one witness? That seems bizarre.
Gramma Vicki, I don't believe he would succeed in throwing out the entire case. I am just certain that he would try to do that.
Incredible to think Trump's lawyers are ready to admit what he did so he can invoke immunity for doing it!
Is this kind of immunity available to governors and mayors and other executives? Every official in an executive branch of government will soon want some of that secret sauce!
Just wait'll you see how many Republican officials run for the Pres'y in four yars!
It surprises me that the date of the last activity isn’t “Never.”
Love the chickens. Such beautiful ladies.
We can all be grateful that Jack Smith and his team persist despite the machinations of SCOTUS, Trump, Trump's legal team (oops, that's SCOTUS again), right-wing media, an indifferent/cynical public, etc.
Counterfactual imagining: IF Congressional Republicans had followed through w/ impeachment, investigations, truth-telling; IF Merrick Garland hadn't been afraid of his own shadow; IF James Comey had revealed the national security and related issues with both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in 2016; IF Mitch McConnell weren't such a corrupt suck-up; IF country had come before party, politics, and power. Sigh.
I mostly look forward and accept this history for what it was, so it's back to work for all of us to get out the vote! When Democrats vote, everybody wins.
The History books are gonna be UNKIND to the GOP after all this. (Not that you'd be afforded the opportunity to READ them here in Florida.)
Not if they are allowed to win. Then we see the revisionist America that MAGA's dream of in their dark, wet, dreams of a dystopian autocratic America.
I'm tired of the slow pace of the wheels of justice. I wish the Grim Reaper would just pick up his pace.
Many American share that wish, but some hope he's still kicking long enough to enjoy his stay at the Greybar Hotel.
Otherwise, once again, he won.
Apart from the labor and safety laws enacted first in NY after the tragedy, and subsequently swept into federal law during the New Deal, it's well worth remembering that most of the 500 employed, and the 146 killed, at this $6/week, 13-hour daily shift hazardous job were recent Italian and Jewish immigrants.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire occurred 1911. Locked exit doors imprisoned workers in a burning building. But that fire did NOT permanently prevent such tragedies. In 1991 The Hamlet Chicken Plant Fire in NC repeated the tragedy. We have come a LONG way in keeping our workers healthy & safe, but perhaps not far enough. I spent 40 years trying to do that! Labor Day is very meaningful.
Thank you for reminding me of last year’s Labor Day Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire essay, which I earmarked as being important to the Labor movement now being reborn. It certainly is more worth remembering today than the endless chicanery of MAGA&Co., as are Toots and Pickles.
Hopefully, the currently empaneled Grand Jury will issue a few additional indictments against previously unindicted conspirators and they will initiate separate criminal action(s) against those defendants.
That should be Smith's strategy. Load up the docket with more and more indictments until the Trump team realizes they should'a stopped digging.
I wonder why he didn't indict more of them, as both the AZ and the Georgia cases did.
I will second Patris' comment and and thank you also. Pullets look happy you made it home.