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Oct 28, 2022Liked by Joyce Vance

Joyce, you make these complex issues, for example what seems like a pass with barely a prison term, understandable for your readers who only have attended google law school.

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I'm really glad civil discourse it's working that way for you! We got to demystify the rule of law & how our system works so that everyone can understand it

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Thank you Joyce! You say so well what I am thinking and hoping. I also hope Officer Fanone has some peace with this conviction and sentence. He is a true hero who fought to protect our democracy. And thank you Judge Bergman

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A typo.. I meant Judge Berman Jackson.

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I'm pulling the trigger, becoming a paid subscriber. I knew it would happen, just needed the compulsion to comment to make me do it.

I think that it's not in human nature to maintain a raw level of emotional response to something that has gone from acute to "chronic", or part of established history. It's not wise to forget what has gone before, or to fail to follow through to the rightful end to a specific action. Justice always trails the offense and usually be quite an interval. Occasionally karmic justice happens in the moment, but that's a rare treat to behold. Justice is best rendered in an environment with cool heads so as not to be blamed for "an eye for an eye" sort of response. We don't usually condone beating folks who are convicted of assault, or shooting them for a weapons offense. On the other hand, we're quite satisfied that jail time is a reasonable punishment for all but the very most egregious of offenses, and even then we struggle with the concept of death as a reasonable sentence for any offense. Making jail time proportional to the convicted offense is a primary responsibility of our judicial workforce. Thus, justice must follow the crime and must be occasioned with a thorough and careful examination of the facts of the case. I'm happy to let our justice system run it's course; try and sentence these offenders to appropriate jail terms without me maintaining a conscious level of arousal for the whole interval prior to their sentencing hearings. It's the ones who incited the riot that concern me more. They have not been indicted. In fact, they're fund-raising, standing for election, getting on-going media attention on the back of crimes against the state. Anyone who spoke in the language of conflict at that rally on 1/6/21 should be held accountable for the subsequent violence that occurred. It was all incitement. Does it matter if their trials occur 6, 12, 18 or 24 months after the offense? I don't know, except that we have a finite judicial workforce and there is probably an order of priority determined internally of which I am not aware. Again, I care more about those who incited the violence. They are the conspirators. I want to see their indictments and dates set for their trials.

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I think you said it perfectly: it's not in human nature to maintain a raw level of emotional response to something that has gone from acute to "chronic", or part of established history. I'm concerned we haven't paid more attention to this reality. And thank you for becoming a paid subscriber!

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I subscribed for the opportunity to participate in the conversation, but I have to admit the chickens captured my attention from the outset. I have had a personal history with chickens dating back to my son's preschool time (he's a senior in highschool). We're on chicken house number five now!

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IKR? they are irresistible, those wee chickies...

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There is a difference between justice and revenge, and too often, people want the latter. Justice should serve the community goals of peace and fairness, whereas revenge and retribution serve a lower purpose. Justice should also include a measure of compassion for both victims and perpetrators.

The US system has built in a time frame to follow because "justice delayed is justice denied." Many defendants from Jan. 6th were not arrested until many months passed, and most are out on bail or ROR'd, so their cases do not have the urgency of those where the defendants are in jail awaiting a disposition.

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Oct 28, 2022Liked by Joyce Vance

Well said, Joyce! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and those of Judge Jackson!

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Many thanks, Joyce, especially for the reasoning behind the 7.5 years sentencing decision. I pray Officer Fanone is at peace with the judge's ruling.

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Oct 28, 2022Liked by Joyce Vance

This is a terrific piece, Joyce! It’s clear, pointed, and will be useful in coming days as we all speak to others about the importance of their votes this year. So many thanks.

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Oct 28, 2022Liked by Joyce Vance

Yes, yes, yes! Context is important around the sentencing guidelines and honestly, as we watch Trump continue to be outside prison walls, it’s frustrating. Very much appreciate the review and as a person with a law degree, your review is worth 1000 law school classes!

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Thank you!

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There is the shadow of Tyranny and those who hide in that shadow. Writing this from Munich where this did not start but started the footsteps to what we remember today.

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Unplug from the news really hit me. Yesterday my husband and I were headed to work with students for a civics competition. My topic was the current state of our institutions and his was participation/voting. We are both retired, but taught civics for 30 years and still volunteer. So, I should be extremely focused, and I usually am. But, boy, do I really want to unplug right now. Walker could win? Trump is STILL supported? Making me crazy nuts. Grateful for Joyce and her Sisters and forums like this that keep me sane. And you’ll be glad to know that 300 students showed up to the event and spent two hours discussing civics🤓

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Today I received notice from the ballot tracking app here in California that my ballot has been received and my vote added to the tally. At times it feels like a pitiful gesture here in blue California but today it feels like a note in the roar against the authoritarians.

From the dribbles of information I have read it sounds like 2022 will be an even greater turn out than 2020.

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Yes, you help me understand also, but that still does not make it right. Officer Fanone will probably never be able to work as a police officer again. The defendant, brutally battered Officer Fanone and offer him up to other while participating in an attempted coup. I am sorry Joyce; I do not understand a system that gives this kind of sentence for those crimes. Too many of these folks are getting off too easy.

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After interrogating 20+ yrs of suspects who committed equatable violence in circumstances in no way related to the intensity of J6, I am not in agreement w this sentencing. I am not comforted by it. And the judicial complexity by which it was derived will fail to deter Mega MAGAs and therefore is inadequate. To repeatedly draw weaponized mob violence onto an individual is sadistic. 90mos is not long enough.

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Good evening JV - Thanks again for some insight into the sentencing outcome of previous officer Fanone’s attacker. These days I’m attempting to tiptoe through these briefings in a way that allows me my continued sense of wholeness and optimism amidst such madness and insanity knowing that voting is our greatest privilege living in America and that our common goal to preserve our democracy will be met with vigor and pride at the polls on November 8th, 2022. I again salute you for your continued offerings of hope.

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I'll add my voice to the the thank yous. Reading Civil Discourse helps bring my blood pressure down - at least a little bit.

I find my thoughts these days are centered on two things. Bringing the leaders of the insurrection to justice (can we have some movement, please?) and hoping that the midterm results confirm that there are more people in the United States who believe in democracy than there are who believe in autocrats.

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Awesome article as always and a big shout out to the courage of Judge Jackson, a true American Patriot as opposed to the coward who ordered the mob attack.

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A magnificent explanation. I actually feel I'm beginning to grasp some of these legal issues. Smartest thing I've done since getting vaccinated, is signing up for Civil Discourse.

Many thanks Joyce.

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