Joyce...WOW! I am trying to absorb all of this, but I really appreciate the play-by-play events that happened today. I heard that Abba asked Judge Kaplan again about letting Trump delay the trial one day to go to his mother-in-law’s funeral. Kaplan replied that he had already gone over that matter with her. Abba replied that he had not but I understand he admonished her because she had originally asked that Trump be given one week off. Motion DENIED!
Donald J. Trump is the person who makes your skin crawl. You want to avoid him at all costs, especially if you are a woman. I think that’s why I admire Cassidy Hutchinson so much for speaking out about what she knew. But it’s E.Jean who I really applaud because she never has given up on her quest to hold this monster’s feet to the fire.
Oh, dear. I try not to think like that, but sometimes there is a pathetic truth. I snorted. Yup. One wishes for almost anything that could get that man to shut his trap.
Didn't Hannibal Lector (I know I spelled his name wrong) have some kind of mask? Duct tape might help. ANYTHING to get him to shut his mouth!
I try to imagine what things would be like if there was no Internet and we weren't forced to have Trump's name --- and baggage --- forced down our throats every day. I miss the good old days.
I have gone through two remotes muting anything about or from...the true colors emerged early on and it was indeed RED/FLAGS/Danger! Danger! ..through and thorough. Everything is calculated & carefully played from that bag of tricks, evil baggage of deception on top of out n out lies.
We have a few in our own midst too , the principle , what’s right , must be upheld .
Patricia, I have to laugh about your remotes! We have a TV in the living room and our bedroom. Of ALL the keys/buttons on the remotes, the "mute" one has been used so much, the white part has just about rubbed off!
“Trump had disappeared from the courtroom by the time the Judge returned from break and opening arguments began.”
tRump is not required to be in attendance at this trial. tRump did not attend court proceedings after the break so he could attend a campaign event. Yet, he needed the trial postponed so he could attend his mother-in-laws funeral? (scratches head). I’m guessing he will be in court on Thursday, missing the funeral and screaming that the judge is so unfair to require him to miss the funeral of his beloved MIL, and to be able to support his grieving wife. 🤮
I wonder what he would answer if the judge asked for his mother-in-laws full name, her age, the color of her eyes, what their first meeting was like. And what she and her grandson enjoy doing together.
Dollars to donuts he could only , maybe, answer the first one.
That little corner of his golf course in New Jersey is going to get pretty crowded one of these days, with all previous (and future) wives, plus their parents. But on the positive side, that will mean more hiding places for him.
I agree! If I were his "grieving wife," I wouldn't want him within 100 miles from the funeral. All of us KNOW exactly how that funeral will turn out. At the point when people participate in the eulogy, Trump will have his stack of note cards so he can campaign instead.
Instead of allowing visitors to sign The Book in the lobby of the funeral parlor or church, will be a separate book -- complete with envelopes --- for those interested in donations to Almighty Trump.
Sorry for disrespecting Melania and her family, but I just KNOW he will take advantage of this situation. As long as it's not televised,, maybe the TV stations can give US a short break.
If Big Mouth Ass isn't required to be there in court, then any details of his personal life have nothing to do with the case. Is he prohibited from eating Big Macs? Just as irrelevant.
Seriously? Do you know what "bully" means? "to treat (someone) in a cruel, insulting, threatening, or aggressive fashion" and/or "to cause (someone) to do something by means of force or coercion." (Both definitions from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, but other dictionaries are similar.)
MAGA Republican fealty to Trump, and the concomitant bullying such fealty requires may just be their undoing in the long run. Especially given we all still enjoy a secret ballot... a much undervalued asset in our country that might just provide an important opportunity to people who may find themselves otherwise hostage to fascist spouses...
I haven't seen any news about this. Ms. Hutchison greatly impressed me when she testified and reading how it all came to be from Liz Cheney's account in Oath and Honor, who by the way brought her in to the committee in the most professional and protective way. I imagine I'll see 'news' if the 'investigation' goes anywhere.
Thank goodness for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger! I feared that the whole Republican Party had gone off the rails. Now, I just say that only 80% of Republicans are making a bad name for the rest.
TY, SC...I see how I missed it. I tend to not watch or read MSNBC mainly so as not to be 'accused' of confirmation bias. Personal choice even if the information is accurate. And yes, I know JV is interviewed on MSNBC but her creds and legal focus make it OK.
MSNBC has very good commentators and legal analysts. They are completely transparent about their liberal bias and, that being said, deliver very insightful commentary.
A confession: I love fashion (even though I have been dressing for court as if it were a ski lodge). So I wasn’t surprised when a friend asked tonight if I noticed @ejeancarroll’s shoes. But I didn’t. I was too focused on her posture.
Imagine you were sexually violated by famous, powerful man, a person so shockingly entitled that he assaulted you in an isolated corner of a luxury department store.
Imagine that after confiding in two friends, you buried that secret away for two-plus decades.
Now imagine that you finally have the courage to come forward, and your assaulter, once just tabloid-fodder, charity-circuit famous, is now the leader of the free world.
Imagine he not only denies the worst trauma of your life, but insists you are a stranger and a liar.
Imagine you take him to court and after a trial he never bothers to attend, a unanimous jury finds he did, in fact, sexually assault you and then lie about it himself. And then imagine he keeps doing it again and again.
Now imagine months later, as you sue him again just to make it stop, you are in the same room for the first time in nearly 30 years. How would you sit?
I imagine you’d sit exactly as E. Jean Carroll did today: not comfortably settled in her chair, but perched on its edge, her back ruler straight, willing herself as far away from her assaulter, who was sitting two rows behind her, as she could.
Watching her seated like that was wrenching. It was like the seated embodiment of a fight-or-flight response. So no, I didn’t notice her shoes, but now you and my friend know why.
I’m afraid that I just couldn’t read this thoroughly because, with many other voiceless thousands the world over, Je suis E Jean Carroll.
What I need to write is that, for me, she is a true heroine. Whatever the jury decides here, her ongoing courage and honesty in the face of toxic Patriarchy and indulgent mob support of sexualised violence is both a wake up call for our societies and a beacon of hope for our youth.
Moi aussi. My assailant was a state official. It's hard to read some of the details, and sometimes I find the old nightmares returning. But they are a little different now: I feel stronger and in more control. Though I spent a long time living in fear, I not only survived, but thrived. He ended up eventually in prison, on other charges. Knowing the stories of women like E. Jean Carrol and Christine Blasey Ford and Anita Hill helped me move forward, and eventually to speak up. They are among my heroes.
Let me be clear. “Whatever the jury decided here ...” is not acceptable and downright wimpy. The jury should award her millions if not a billion. This trial is all about financial restitution. He should be in jail serving time for rape. Instead he is free and still maligning her!
I worked in and around NY real estate for decades. Donald Trump was known as a sleezeball and a shyster by everyone in the industry - and he was uniformly viewed as a laughingstock. It defies belief that he is a candidate for the highest office in the land.
My heart breaks for all of the women - and men - whose lives have been made miserable by the despicable acts of Trump. E Jean Carroll not only lives with the trauma of sexual assault but she is forced to publicly deal with the threats and demeaning comments by trump and his disgusting enablers. She is a brave woman and I hope the jury sends a message loud and clear that the time for accountability has finally arrived.
It’s because of the lies presented in “reality” television like The Apprentice and, dare I say it, some conservative news outlets. You know the shows I’m talking about. I have relatives who have followed TFG since The Apprentice days and still consider him a keen and savvy businessman. He’s a lying blow hard bully. That was my take after watching one half of one show.
I didn't make it THAT far into the one and only time I watched that UNreality show. Only a desperate person would want to be humiliated by the biggest creep on TV. He still thinks he's on TV and able to criticize and make rude comments.
Is there a way we can make him go back to "the elevator" and take a little trip to the penthouse, and locking him in there with no phone or access to the Internet?
I worked in NYC for years too. I still think there is more to the trump-epstein story! I have seen things online that have long-since disappeared and may be untrue, but 2 underage women and a notebook disappeared. Those two men deserve a special place in Hell.
Good point, Bruce. I listened to Former U.S. Attorney Elie Honig's Up Against the Mob series last year. But I never thought about the jurors in those cases being under threat. https://cafe.com/up-against-the-mob/
It's an excellent point. If he is so benign and innocent why do the jurors have to use false names in the jury room? He and his followers are monsters.
On that point, it would be helpful for Joyce to explain how Trump can evade or delay payment of the award. She may have already done this, but it now has more relevance to me. I want him to be held accountable!
I'm assuming she'll eventually get the $5 million from the original judgement. She deserves every penny and will have to spend half of it on protecting herself for who knows how long. The hopefully-bigger hit will give her the chance to donate some.
Security guards probably get a minimum of $100 per hour X 24 hours X 365 days per year = $876K per year. I'll bet they get paid closer to $200 or $300 per hour.
I don't know what the going price for MAGA "goons" is these days, but she may need to hang on to as much money as she can. Quite frankly, given the number of threats, courtesy of King Trump, I don't trust him.
I don't think anyone is going to see any money, because I don't think he has it. Not sure if her case can be attached to the sale of all of the properties in NYS or not.
It’s clear Trump is going to have Habba denigrate Carroll. The jury will see Habba viciously attack Carroll. Trump will also not be able to stop himself from personally denigrating judge Kaplan. He’ll attack Kaplan publicly and also will require Habba to be sarcastic, disrespectful and confrontational with the judge in court. That’s going to be a big mistake, but this is really the most intense and emotionally enraging bind Trump has ever been in legally- with him there in the courtroom, face to face with a woman who he sexually assaulted on the stand hour after hour speaking against him, while his stooge lawyer gets overruled constantly by the judge. Trump is going to really melt down with rage about the trial on truth social and during his campaign speech rants, with violence threatening hate speech that Kaplan will have to gag.
Let's use an exponential function for the damages. Every time trump or his lawyers have to be reminded of proper decorum, double the fines. It won't take long before the amount becomes burdensome.
Exponential to me means an order of magnitude - 10 times, not double. We want him to shut up sooner rather than later. I say $10M for the fine and $100M for the damages. If he shoots off his mouth again (and how can he not!) then she goes for $100M for the fine and $1B for the damages. She gets some golf courses, a Trump Tower and throw in Mar-A-Lago for good measure. That'll shut him up.
You have to wonder how Melina is taking this? Her inheritance is going out the window! And why else would she remain married to the guy?
She probably migrated a hundred million or so into her own account a few years ago, just in case. If she was to turn on him, I think she’d probably break him, the smell would be awful, don’t you know.
An exponential function is one of the form, f(x)=a^x where a>0.
e.g. f(x)=2^x, or f(x)=10^x, etc. They are arguably some of the most important functions in mathematics. They grow incredibly fast, faster than any polynomial growth.
Exponential can be any number that regularly modifies another over time: If the exponant is 2, then 4, 8, 16, etc. Order of magnitude is similar, but not necessarily regularized: the arrangement of a number of items determined by their relative size, as: "the items are arranged in ascending order of magnitude". [NOAD]. In common use, people often use the term to describe ascending exponents of 10x the previous level, but strictly speaking this is not accurate. That is a logarythmic function.
As for Melania, as I recall from a random news coverage in the early years of Trump's presidency, part of the deal for her living in the White House was the guarantee of her son's inheritance (more in line with Trump's older children and a legal firming up of her own future financial security. No idea of the details, but there are a number of ways that could happen that would protect her interests no matter what happens to Trump.
Habba is clearly the wrong type of lawyer for the defense in this case! She is a stupid attack dog but instead any defendant in this kind of case needs a kind, patient, sincere defense which apologizes and tries to minimize the damages.
She’s the perfect lawyer for enraged Trump- she will do and say anything he directs her to do and say to viciously attack and try to destroy Carroll. His rage will grow every hour of the trial.
Dr Mike. I’m anticipating with interest when Mt Vesuvius blows, and lava flows from his eyes, how the MSM will report the meltdown wrt Fitness for the Job
I’m taking fake bets at Dave Fake News. Double your money using the coupon code “OrangeNero”
He's incapable of hiring such a lawyer. He HAS to appear as the bully, no matter what. And his lawyers have to mimic him. He's their puppetmaster, telling them what to say and how to act. Then they fill in the legal language.
Ira, how many kind, sincere, patient lawyers do you think would represent this mean, impulsive, lying rapist? I doubt one could be found who would tarnish their good reputation!
Agree unless it it is Kiees (I'm spelling it wrong) who sits to his right with a slight fixed grin and has a big rep, was allegedly paid $3M up front plus continuing billing, and reportedly is openly hated by t but has a great deal of responsiblity for the immunity case and others
Those are the people who quit after a week or so. Habba is being paid to be an attack dog because that is what Trump wants. He's already lost, but it seems important to him to be seen as the victim on the one hand, and still on the offensive on the other. Maybe performance for his "base" (which appears to be getting smaller)? Or perhaps just plain fear and habitual aggression.
Thank you, Joyce. And thank you, Ms. Carroll. Until you brought it up in your final paragraph, I didn't realize how significant E. Jean's case can be in "informing more people" about how unqualified the likely candidate for president is this coming November.
I watched a video yesterday that covered Judge Kaplan's actions to protect the jurors in the case. It is beyond me why this story has not received more attention.
Last night only a few Iowa Republicans chose Trump as their candidate. Turnout to the caucuses was less than 15%. The 51% of those who voted for Trump then represented less than 7.65% of eligible Iowa Republican voters. The biggest question of the night might then be what will the other 92.35% do on November 5?
LOLOL..."Asafoetida is the dried latex exuded from the rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, perennial herbs of the carrot family." Carrot family, clever!
I don't like public use of the f* word, especially on this Civil platform, but in this case that word might actually be fitting. The MSM coverage was appalling, even among reporters/networks I usually trust. The percentages of the vote total were correct I assume, but NOBODY was highlighting the small number of voters! That's a very important fact!
I agree, and made a similar observation earlier, maybe here, but maybe on another of the forums I frequent. Or both. Media too caught up in the horserace to step back and evaluate what was actually going on. Same people who think polls based on erroneous assumptions actually refer to something real.
I totally agree. (Well not about f*ck part, but then I am an oldish fogie.) I even even sent an email to Rachel Maddow’s team, asking them to turn down the coverage. Occasional voters who hear even 10% of the Trump coverage could well assume his reelection is inevitable and, as a consequence, not show up to vote.
I'm blown away by the "Republican" women who either dismiss the accounts of his behavior or make excuses for it "because look at all he's accomplished". ??? What sense do these women have of themselves as female human beings deserving of respect? They seem to be seeking validation through supporting a deeply dysfunctional male human being. That is beyond sad.
Trump’s and his lawyer’s behavior in court is horrible, but I’d like to harken back to the evening before, in Iowa, in the caucus sites.
Did anyone else notice how the ballots were collected and counted in some (perhaps all?) of the caucus gathering places?
Paper grocery bags were passed, hand to hand, down the aisles for voters to drop in their ballots. As Republicans would likely accuse in another locale, what more perfect scenario to be able to “stuff the bags” with ballots. There was no control over who handled the bags and what was placed in them. (In other precincts, popcorn tubs and bags were used for stuffing ballots.)
Oh, I should note the faces were a sea of white skin. Would such a possibility for voting fraud have passed Republican approval in Detroit, in Oakland, Kansas City, Atlanta, or Baltimore? Or any primarily non-white voting district? The hypocrisy is so thick you’d need a Republican’s back-stabbing dagger to cut through it. And yet this passes for “transparency “ in voting in an all white, Republican only election. Well, bless their innocent hearts.
I would be interested to know if this is how they have always collected votes. We used to do caucuses in Washington, and the voting was done by physically sorting ourselves within the room: voters for candidate X here, voters for candidate Y over there. My point is that MAGA is really into intimidation. If the paper bag procedure was new, maybe they were trying to reduce the potential for confrontation.
This is pretty standard in a lot of places. In some town meetings here in Vermont, voting is often done first by voice or hand. If it's close, or there are objections to open voting, we each were handed out a piece of colored paper, and we handed them down to the end of the row when finished to be counted. Any kind of container is fine, because everybody can see what's going on. The process varies somewhat from town to town. This used to be pretty standard throughout New England, and some still do, especially the very small towns. Larger towns now generally use a combination of meetings for info and printed ballots on Town Meeting Day (ours can be mailed in ahead of time or dropped off at the town office).
But Parties get to choose how they select their candidates for general elections. Some caucus, some have primaries, some use conventions. But as above, everyone can see what is going on. Though it doesn't keep some from complaining. This is America, after all. Sometimes it is the complainers who keep things on the up and up. Or, sometimes, just get in the way of a process that works very well.
I believe when the Dems used to caucus in Iowa, they used the sort of physical sorting of bodies you mention and moved themselves around to a second choice if their original preferences didn't pan out. I don't know if the Republicans ever used that method.
Rudy is supposed to pay $148 million for his defamation, so what should Trump pay? If, in addition to defamation, Rudy had sexually assaulted Lady Ruby and Shay Moss, what would the judgment have been? $250 million? More? And let's remember that Trump defamed E. Jean while he was the so-called, "Leader of the Free World." If this were a "Price is Right" bid, I'd lock in at $100 million in the real world, and $500 million in my preferred world.
I also feel I can safely say that I'M a more skillful attorney than Alina Habba, and I do insurance audits for a living. And the reality show goes on...
Regarding the subject of who might or might not vote for Trump. I have been a lifelong republican but now am Independent. I have never really supported either party but have always voted for the lesser of evils. I always thought the republicans had no heart but understood economics while the democrats had heart but didn't have a clue about balancing a checkbook. I always supported republicans because the lesser of two evils was the one that supported the economy. However, the facts are the republicans have been just as bad if not worse from an economic standpoint. That is the nature of democracy...no one is ever happy because there is always compromise but this is what keeps things in balance. Democracy is the best form of government but also, the worst meaning there is nothing better. I stopped being a republican not because of Trump as anyone can elect a bad president. Rather I stopped voting for republicans because of the manner in which the republican leadership has enabled Trump. To vote against impeachment then say he was guilty is the ultimate form of cowardice and gave the finger to the entire country. I will never vote for a republican ever again. They have destroyed forever whatever esteem I so inaccurately assigned to them. I don't particularly like the democrats but now they are all that is left. Once again, this is Democracy...the lesser of two evils.
Interesting story of your voting history. I believe there are many like you who have seen reality over time. I especially appreciate that the misconception of Republicans are better at balancing the checkbook. Somewhere you learned the facts. It behooves us all to keep telling facts to correct misinformation and disinformation!
David, your post (re. "the lesser of two evils") is a cry out for the need of Ranked Choice Voting (RCV) in Federal Elections. Enacting it doesn't have to follow the interminable state-by-state route: the Democrats could enact it for all Federal elections (see the Constitution, Article 1, Section 4, the Election Clause, key word: "Manner") when they have the votes to do it. We might have to encourage them with an organized public outcry, since the Political Duopoly helps ALL incumbents). Our one-choice-only, plurality system imposes the "voter's dilemma" on all of us who vote: Do I vote for whom I truly want elected, or do I vote for the "lesser of two evils" who might actually win, so my vote actually counts? RCV eliminates the voter's dilemma. Make your favorite your first choice and your "lesser of two evils" your second choice (which we're finally allowed to express when we have RCV). If your favorite is eliminated during the instant run-off elimination tallies enabled by RCV, your second choice is elevated and counted.
Without the burden of the voter's dilemma, your favorite non-duopoly candidate's chances of winning might be greatly increased. Without the voter's dilemma, and the duopoly it protects, could Ralph Nader, to everyone’s surprise, perhaps have won the 2000 Presidential election?
WITH RCV, the current duopoly, in time, would lose its power so that third-party candidates or independents might often win, allowing many more points of view to be considered.
WITH RCV, political bosses in Congress would lose the weapon of threatening to "primary" members of Congress to maintain party discipline (which enables non-partisanship and radicalism like the current House Republican clown show). That threatened member of Congress would have the realistic response of running as an independent.
WITH RCV, candidates must consider voters who give them their second choices, third choices, etc., if they are to accumulate an absolute majority during the run-off tallies. This consideration will cause them to be moderate, rational, and conciliatory: firebrands lose!
WITH RCV, potential voters, no longer frustrated by the constraint of only one choice but being able to more fully communicate their preferences, might be more interested in exercising their voter franchise. Greater voter participation makes for a healthier, more robust democracy.
I know many who favor RCV. I think it makes sense..but with T challenging the “simpler” system we currently use as corrupted, can you imagine what he and his followers would do to challenge RCV?
Thank you Joyce for this informative commentary on this trial. Even if the jury awards a substantial amount I still worry for E. Jean Carroll, her attorneys, the jury and Judge Kaplan. Trump and his band of creeps are horrendous. I can’t imagine living with that kind of fear.
In the post "me-too" world, I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some knowledge by these jurors of the bad actors that have been in the recent high profile cases. The disturbing numbers of powerful men guilty of these sexual crimes is a genuine signature of our era. Even without specific knowledge of Trump's previous reputation, I'd imagine he looks like the proverbial rapists/attackers that have been outed and punished previously.
E. Jean Carroll is another person who has taken on this fight for us all (I'm a man, btw) and her courage should be illuminated further as a blunt rebuttal for Habba's tawdry descriptions of her seeking fame. Nobody is buying that manure.
Joyce...WOW! I am trying to absorb all of this, but I really appreciate the play-by-play events that happened today. I heard that Abba asked Judge Kaplan again about letting Trump delay the trial one day to go to his mother-in-law’s funeral. Kaplan replied that he had already gone over that matter with her. Abba replied that he had not but I understand he admonished her because she had originally asked that Trump be given one week off. Motion DENIED!
Donald J. Trump is the person who makes your skin crawl. You want to avoid him at all costs, especially if you are a woman. I think that’s why I admire Cassidy Hutchinson so much for speaking out about what she knew. But it’s E.Jean who I really applaud because she never has given up on her quest to hold this monster’s feet to the fire.
I wish there was a mute button for trump. He needs a ventriculocordectomy, a procedure used to "debark" a dog.
It's very cruel to do that to a dog. For Trump, not so much.
Agreed
Oh, dear. I try not to think like that, but sometimes there is a pathetic truth. I snorted. Yup. One wishes for almost anything that could get that man to shut his trap.
Dogs are capable of love just like many humans.
As horrific as this procedure is for a dog (it is) certainly seems fitting for this twit!
Agreed
Didn't Hannibal Lector (I know I spelled his name wrong) have some kind of mask? Duct tape might help. ANYTHING to get him to shut his mouth!
I try to imagine what things would be like if there was no Internet and we weren't forced to have Trump's name --- and baggage --- forced down our throats every day. I miss the good old days.
Yeah - a weird one - but that was supposed to keep him from eating anyone!
Duct tape would be so so so very much better AND more effective! What a fantasy, right?
Imagining is the only way we will be rid of him for a while - I'm afraid. Do NOT want to imagine another 4 years of that idiocy!
I have gone through two remotes muting anything about or from...the true colors emerged early on and it was indeed RED/FLAGS/Danger! Danger! ..through and thorough. Everything is calculated & carefully played from that bag of tricks, evil baggage of deception on top of out n out lies.
We have a few in our own midst too , the principle , what’s right , must be upheld .
Patricia, I have to laugh about your remotes! We have a TV in the living room and our bedroom. Of ALL the keys/buttons on the remotes, the "mute" one has been used so much, the white part has just about rubbed off!
LOL! Same here!!! When the whites of its eyes…got to be a joke in there somewhere …!!
I agree twofold.
“Trump had disappeared from the courtroom by the time the Judge returned from break and opening arguments began.”
tRump is not required to be in attendance at this trial. tRump did not attend court proceedings after the break so he could attend a campaign event. Yet, he needed the trial postponed so he could attend his mother-in-laws funeral? (scratches head). I’m guessing he will be in court on Thursday, missing the funeral and screaming that the judge is so unfair to require him to miss the funeral of his beloved MIL, and to be able to support his grieving wife. 🤮
I wonder what he would answer if the judge asked for his mother-in-laws full name, her age, the color of her eyes, what their first meeting was like. And what she and her grandson enjoy doing together.
Dollars to donuts he could only , maybe, answer the first one.
Beloved indeed.
Love your comment! He would fail the judge's test with flying colors.
I wonder if he suggested to his wife burying her on one of his golf courses. I'm sure he would love the tax break.
That little corner of his golf course in New Jersey is going to get pretty crowded one of these days, with all previous (and future) wives, plus their parents. But on the positive side, that will mean more hiding places for him.
😖😤
I agree! If I were his "grieving wife," I wouldn't want him within 100 miles from the funeral. All of us KNOW exactly how that funeral will turn out. At the point when people participate in the eulogy, Trump will have his stack of note cards so he can campaign instead.
Instead of allowing visitors to sign The Book in the lobby of the funeral parlor or church, will be a separate book -- complete with envelopes --- for those interested in donations to Almighty Trump.
Sorry for disrespecting Melania and her family, but I just KNOW he will take advantage of this situation. As long as it's not televised,, maybe the TV stations can give US a short break.
his 3rd mother-in-law
If Big Mouth Ass isn't required to be there in court, then any details of his personal life have nothing to do with the case. Is he prohibited from eating Big Macs? Just as irrelevant.
you know how to handle a bully, bully back - women, men or anyone - bully the fuck back
Yay, Patricia, for telling it like it is!
Seriously? Do you know what "bully" means? "to treat (someone) in a cruel, insulting, threatening, or aggressive fashion" and/or "to cause (someone) to do something by means of force or coercion." (Both definitions from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, but other dictionaries are similar.)
Your point.
Have you ever been bullied? If you haven’t then you have no idea what it’s like nor do you understand what it’s like to bully back.
MAGA Republican fealty to Trump, and the concomitant bullying such fealty requires may just be their undoing in the long run. Especially given we all still enjoy a secret ballot... a much undervalued asset in our country that might just provide an important opportunity to people who may find themselves otherwise hostage to fascist spouses...
I haven't seen any news about this. Ms. Hutchison greatly impressed me when she testified and reading how it all came to be from Liz Cheney's account in Oath and Honor, who by the way brought her in to the committee in the most professional and protective way. I imagine I'll see 'news' if the 'investigation' goes anywhere.
Thank goodness for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger! I feared that the whole Republican Party had gone off the rails. Now, I just say that only 80% of Republicans are making a bad name for the rest.
TY, SC...I see how I missed it. I tend to not watch or read MSNBC mainly so as not to be 'accused' of confirmation bias. Personal choice even if the information is accurate. And yes, I know JV is interviewed on MSNBC but her creds and legal focus make it OK.
MSNBC has very good commentators and legal analysts. They are completely transparent about their liberal bias and, that being said, deliver very insightful commentary.
Lisa was in the courtroom today.
Lisa Rubin
A confession: I love fashion (even though I have been dressing for court as if it were a ski lodge). So I wasn’t surprised when a friend asked tonight if I noticed @ejeancarroll’s shoes. But I didn’t. I was too focused on her posture.
Imagine you were sexually violated by famous, powerful man, a person so shockingly entitled that he assaulted you in an isolated corner of a luxury department store.
Imagine that after confiding in two friends, you buried that secret away for two-plus decades.
Now imagine that you finally have the courage to come forward, and your assaulter, once just tabloid-fodder, charity-circuit famous, is now the leader of the free world.
Imagine he not only denies the worst trauma of your life, but insists you are a stranger and a liar.
Imagine you take him to court and after a trial he never bothers to attend, a unanimous jury finds he did, in fact, sexually assault you and then lie about it himself. And then imagine he keeps doing it again and again.
Now imagine months later, as you sue him again just to make it stop, you are in the same room for the first time in nearly 30 years. How would you sit?
I imagine you’d sit exactly as E. Jean Carroll did today: not comfortably settled in her chair, but perched on its edge, her back ruler straight, willing herself as far away from her assaulter, who was sitting two rows behind her, as she could.
Watching her seated like that was wrenching. It was like the seated embodiment of a fight-or-flight response. So no, I didn’t notice her shoes, but now you and my friend know why.
Such a brave woman, this should give us all courage. Stand up to the bullies, they’ll cower every time.
She is exemplary.
I’m afraid that I just couldn’t read this thoroughly because, with many other voiceless thousands the world over, Je suis E Jean Carroll.
What I need to write is that, for me, she is a true heroine. Whatever the jury decides here, her ongoing courage and honesty in the face of toxic Patriarchy and indulgent mob support of sexualised violence is both a wake up call for our societies and a beacon of hope for our youth.
As I did read this, I found myself sitting at the edge of the chair, back stiff. Fighting the rage tears.
Je suis E Jean Carroll aussi
Moi aussi. My assailant was a state official. It's hard to read some of the details, and sometimes I find the old nightmares returning. But they are a little different now: I feel stronger and in more control. Though I spent a long time living in fear, I not only survived, but thrived. He ended up eventually in prison, on other charges. Knowing the stories of women like E. Jean Carrol and Christine Blasey Ford and Anita Hill helped me move forward, and eventually to speak up. They are among my heroes.
Mille fois.
Let me be clear. “Whatever the jury decided here ...” is not acceptable and downright wimpy. The jury should award her millions if not a billion. This trial is all about financial restitution. He should be in jail serving time for rape. Instead he is free and still maligning her!
I see you. I hear you. You too are courageous.
Evening Joyce. I believe the jury should award
E Jean Carroll at least a billion dollars. Maybe that will make 45 stop. Your thorough reporting tonight is much appreciated. 🥁🇺🇸🗽🗳️❤️🕯️
a billion is good, but I don't think any amount will work.
Actually to hit the "like" button doesnt exactly say it - I agree - I doubt any amount will work for this jerk to shut up.
Sometimes the like button just means you have my support.
Just doesnt alway do it for me!
I worked in and around NY real estate for decades. Donald Trump was known as a sleezeball and a shyster by everyone in the industry - and he was uniformly viewed as a laughingstock. It defies belief that he is a candidate for the highest office in the land.
My heart breaks for all of the women - and men - whose lives have been made miserable by the despicable acts of Trump. E Jean Carroll not only lives with the trauma of sexual assault but she is forced to publicly deal with the threats and demeaning comments by trump and his disgusting enablers. She is a brave woman and I hope the jury sends a message loud and clear that the time for accountability has finally arrived.
He is and always has been a zero. A nobody.. i have never understood how anyone could be impressed by him.
It’s because of the lies presented in “reality” television like The Apprentice and, dare I say it, some conservative news outlets. You know the shows I’m talking about. I have relatives who have followed TFG since The Apprentice days and still consider him a keen and savvy businessman. He’s a lying blow hard bully. That was my take after watching one half of one show.
I didn't make it THAT far into the one and only time I watched that UNreality show. Only a desperate person would want to be humiliated by the biggest creep on TV. He still thinks he's on TV and able to criticize and make rude comments.
Is there a way we can make him go back to "the elevator" and take a little trip to the penthouse, and locking him in there with no phone or access to the Internet?
I worked in NYC for years too. I still think there is more to the trump-epstein story! I have seen things online that have long-since disappeared and may be untrue, but 2 underage women and a notebook disappeared. Those two men deserve a special place in Hell.
“This jury will be charged with protecting Carroll, and with both Trump and his lawyer unrepentant, that could turn out to be a very high number.”
Yes, please let it be a very high number. The highest. Though I have no expectation that trump will ever pay a dime.
I'm still focused on a jury needing to be protected from Trump supporters, all the while his lawyer is expecting them to believe Trump is the victim?
New Yorkers have put away lots of Mafiosi...they know the score! And they are tough.
I hope so
Good point, Bruce. I listened to Former U.S. Attorney Elie Honig's Up Against the Mob series last year. But I never thought about the jurors in those cases being under threat. https://cafe.com/up-against-the-mob/
It's an excellent point. If he is so benign and innocent why do the jurors have to use false names in the jury room? He and his followers are monsters.
Well said, Lynell!
On that point, it would be helpful for Joyce to explain how Trump can evade or delay payment of the award. She may have already done this, but it now has more relevance to me. I want him to be held accountable!
Yes, when does he pay the $5million he already owes E. Jean?
And I hope she donates all the punitive damages to some organization relevant to her case. Thus exploding the lie that she's just in it for the money.
Minus what she needs to protect herself.
I'm assuming she'll eventually get the $5 million from the original judgement. She deserves every penny and will have to spend half of it on protecting herself for who knows how long. The hopefully-bigger hit will give her the chance to donate some.
Security guards probably get a minimum of $100 per hour X 24 hours X 365 days per year = $876K per year. I'll bet they get paid closer to $200 or $300 per hour.
I don't know what the going price for MAGA "goons" is these days, but she may need to hang on to as much money as she can. Quite frankly, given the number of threats, courtesy of King Trump, I don't trust him.
I don't think anyone is going to see any money, because I don't think he has it. Not sure if her case can be attached to the sale of all of the properties in NYS or not.
Nor will he shut up.
No. Apparently he won’t.
In my fantasy, he has a stroke like the drug lord in Breaking Bad. Confined to a wheel chair and unable to speak.
Mean I know.
There goes another bit of the good karma I have accumulated over the decades.
Think of it like cosmic justice for his ridicule toward the disabled.
Excellent!
On the karma spectrum I can think of a lot worse :>)
Moi aussi, Sky! :)
It’s clear Trump is going to have Habba denigrate Carroll. The jury will see Habba viciously attack Carroll. Trump will also not be able to stop himself from personally denigrating judge Kaplan. He’ll attack Kaplan publicly and also will require Habba to be sarcastic, disrespectful and confrontational with the judge in court. That’s going to be a big mistake, but this is really the most intense and emotionally enraging bind Trump has ever been in legally- with him there in the courtroom, face to face with a woman who he sexually assaulted on the stand hour after hour speaking against him, while his stooge lawyer gets overruled constantly by the judge. Trump is going to really melt down with rage about the trial on truth social and during his campaign speech rants, with violence threatening hate speech that Kaplan will have to gag.
Let's use an exponential function for the damages. Every time trump or his lawyers have to be reminded of proper decorum, double the fines. It won't take long before the amount becomes burdensome.
Exponential to me means an order of magnitude - 10 times, not double. We want him to shut up sooner rather than later. I say $10M for the fine and $100M for the damages. If he shoots off his mouth again (and how can he not!) then she goes for $100M for the fine and $1B for the damages. She gets some golf courses, a Trump Tower and throw in Mar-A-Lago for good measure. That'll shut him up.
You have to wonder how Melina is taking this? Her inheritance is going out the window! And why else would she remain married to the guy?
Melania has been known to revamp her prenup regularly. My guess is she's got it covered.
She probably migrated a hundred million or so into her own account a few years ago, just in case. If she was to turn on him, I think she’d probably break him, the smell would be awful, don’t you know.
An exponential function is one of the form, f(x)=a^x where a>0.
e.g. f(x)=2^x, or f(x)=10^x, etc. They are arguably some of the most important functions in mathematics. They grow incredibly fast, faster than any polynomial growth.
Being a prior business woman, I imagine Melanie has put money aside for a rainy day.
Exponential can be any number that regularly modifies another over time: If the exponant is 2, then 4, 8, 16, etc. Order of magnitude is similar, but not necessarily regularized: the arrangement of a number of items determined by their relative size, as: "the items are arranged in ascending order of magnitude". [NOAD]. In common use, people often use the term to describe ascending exponents of 10x the previous level, but strictly speaking this is not accurate. That is a logarythmic function.
As for Melania, as I recall from a random news coverage in the early years of Trump's presidency, part of the deal for her living in the White House was the guarantee of her son's inheritance (more in line with Trump's older children and a legal firming up of her own future financial security. No idea of the details, but there are a number of ways that could happen that would protect her interests no matter what happens to Trump.
Habba is clearly the wrong type of lawyer for the defense in this case! She is a stupid attack dog but instead any defendant in this kind of case needs a kind, patient, sincere defense which apologizes and tries to minimize the damages.
Just sayin but he may face the kind of damages that Rudy got hit with AND TRUMP DESERVES IT, DOESN’T HE?
She’s the perfect lawyer for enraged Trump- she will do and say anything he directs her to do and say to viciously attack and try to destroy Carroll. His rage will grow every hour of the trial.
Dr Mike. I’m anticipating with interest when Mt Vesuvius blows, and lava flows from his eyes, how the MSM will report the meltdown wrt Fitness for the Job
I’m taking fake bets at Dave Fake News. Double your money using the coupon code “OrangeNero”
I'm in!
She’s actually extending the defamation in the courtroom. Astonishing.
He's incapable of hiring such a lawyer. He HAS to appear as the bully, no matter what. And his lawyers have to mimic him. He's their puppetmaster, telling them what to say and how to act. Then they fill in the legal language.
Ira, how many kind, sincere, patient lawyers do you think would represent this mean, impulsive, lying rapist? I doubt one could be found who would tarnish their good reputation!
Agree unless it it is Kiees (I'm spelling it wrong) who sits to his right with a slight fixed grin and has a big rep, was allegedly paid $3M up front plus continuing billing, and reportedly is openly hated by t but has a great deal of responsiblity for the immunity case and others
Those are the people who quit after a week or so. Habba is being paid to be an attack dog because that is what Trump wants. He's already lost, but it seems important to him to be seen as the victim on the one hand, and still on the offensive on the other. Maybe performance for his "base" (which appears to be getting smaller)? Or perhaps just plain fear and habitual aggression.
We can only pray that what you write, does indeed, happen.
Thank you, Joyce. And thank you, Ms. Carroll. Until you brought it up in your final paragraph, I didn't realize how significant E. Jean's case can be in "informing more people" about how unqualified the likely candidate for president is this coming November.
I watched a video yesterday that covered Judge Kaplan's actions to protect the jurors in the case. It is beyond me why this story has not received more attention.
Lynell, like you, the madder the Ketchup Pitcher gets, the more the MSM will find this to be a “great trainwreck” to feature
Last night only a few Iowa Republicans chose Trump as their candidate. Turnout to the caucuses was less than 15%. The 51% of those who voted for Trump then represented less than 7.65% of eligible Iowa Republican voters. The biggest question of the night might then be what will the other 92.35% do on November 5?
It's hard to find a more vanilla state than Iowa, and he only got 51% of the republican vote there!
How many of the other 49% will be willing to accept Biden?
Or stay home and not vote.
Vanilla is much too complementary. More like an asafoetida state.
LOLOL..."Asafoetida is the dried latex exuded from the rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, perennial herbs of the carrot family." Carrot family, clever!
It's said to be good for getting rid of warts.
You’d never know it from the coverage...overwhelming was the catchphrase most used! Where is fuck is our MSM?
Playing both sides. Feckless as they are
I don't like public use of the f* word, especially on this Civil platform, but in this case that word might actually be fitting. The MSM coverage was appalling, even among reporters/networks I usually trust. The percentages of the vote total were correct I assume, but NOBODY was highlighting the small number of voters! That's a very important fact!
That's why we have to subscribe to Substack commentators. We need actual news.
I wouldn’t normally do that, however, the entire spelling of the word fits the occasion, I apologize if I have offended anyone
I hear you E, and I do agree that in this instance it's warranted!
I agree, and made a similar observation earlier, maybe here, but maybe on another of the forums I frequent. Or both. Media too caught up in the horserace to step back and evaluate what was actually going on. Same people who think polls based on erroneous assumptions actually refer to something real.
Yes Annie! So many of the numerical totals are stated as percentages. I'd like more hard numbers for context.
I totally agree. (Well not about f*ck part, but then I am an oldish fogie.) I even even sent an email to Rachel Maddow’s team, asking them to turn down the coverage. Occasional voters who hear even 10% of the Trump coverage could well assume his reelection is inevitable and, as a consequence, not show up to vote.
I realize everyone deserves competent legal representation, but it is a crime that Ms. Carroll has to keep going through this.
And sad that any woman would agree to represent this man.
I'm blown away by the "Republican" women who either dismiss the accounts of his behavior or make excuses for it "because look at all he's accomplished". ??? What sense do these women have of themselves as female human beings deserving of respect? They seem to be seeking validation through supporting a deeply dysfunctional male human being. That is beyond sad.
So many completely deny that this happened. Believe Trump is innocent & that she is after money/fame, etc...
Trump’s and his lawyer’s behavior in court is horrible, but I’d like to harken back to the evening before, in Iowa, in the caucus sites.
Did anyone else notice how the ballots were collected and counted in some (perhaps all?) of the caucus gathering places?
Paper grocery bags were passed, hand to hand, down the aisles for voters to drop in their ballots. As Republicans would likely accuse in another locale, what more perfect scenario to be able to “stuff the bags” with ballots. There was no control over who handled the bags and what was placed in them. (In other precincts, popcorn tubs and bags were used for stuffing ballots.)
Oh, I should note the faces were a sea of white skin. Would such a possibility for voting fraud have passed Republican approval in Detroit, in Oakland, Kansas City, Atlanta, or Baltimore? Or any primarily non-white voting district? The hypocrisy is so thick you’d need a Republican’s back-stabbing dagger to cut through it. And yet this passes for “transparency “ in voting in an all white, Republican only election. Well, bless their innocent hearts.
I would be interested to know if this is how they have always collected votes. We used to do caucuses in Washington, and the voting was done by physically sorting ourselves within the room: voters for candidate X here, voters for candidate Y over there. My point is that MAGA is really into intimidation. If the paper bag procedure was new, maybe they were trying to reduce the potential for confrontation.
This is pretty standard in a lot of places. In some town meetings here in Vermont, voting is often done first by voice or hand. If it's close, or there are objections to open voting, we each were handed out a piece of colored paper, and we handed them down to the end of the row when finished to be counted. Any kind of container is fine, because everybody can see what's going on. The process varies somewhat from town to town. This used to be pretty standard throughout New England, and some still do, especially the very small towns. Larger towns now generally use a combination of meetings for info and printed ballots on Town Meeting Day (ours can be mailed in ahead of time or dropped off at the town office).
But Parties get to choose how they select their candidates for general elections. Some caucus, some have primaries, some use conventions. But as above, everyone can see what is going on. Though it doesn't keep some from complaining. This is America, after all. Sometimes it is the complainers who keep things on the up and up. Or, sometimes, just get in the way of a process that works very well.
I believe when the Dems used to caucus in Iowa, they used the sort of physical sorting of bodies you mention and moved themselves around to a second choice if their original preferences didn't pan out. I don't know if the Republicans ever used that method.
If Trump has lost, the airwaves & web would be afire with blasphemous Trumpian furry about how the election was stolen -- that's just fact.
Rudy is supposed to pay $148 million for his defamation, so what should Trump pay? If, in addition to defamation, Rudy had sexually assaulted Lady Ruby and Shay Moss, what would the judgment have been? $250 million? More? And let's remember that Trump defamed E. Jean while he was the so-called, "Leader of the Free World." If this were a "Price is Right" bid, I'd lock in at $100 million in the real world, and $500 million in my preferred world.
I also feel I can safely say that I'M a more skillful attorney than Alina Habba, and I do insurance audits for a living. And the reality show goes on...
I actually think it’s Habba who wants her 15 minutes of fame.
Absolutely. She's auditioning for a job at Faux. You just know they will make an offer.
Yes, a job at Fox or White House counsel in the Fourth Reich.
Regarding the subject of who might or might not vote for Trump. I have been a lifelong republican but now am Independent. I have never really supported either party but have always voted for the lesser of evils. I always thought the republicans had no heart but understood economics while the democrats had heart but didn't have a clue about balancing a checkbook. I always supported republicans because the lesser of two evils was the one that supported the economy. However, the facts are the republicans have been just as bad if not worse from an economic standpoint. That is the nature of democracy...no one is ever happy because there is always compromise but this is what keeps things in balance. Democracy is the best form of government but also, the worst meaning there is nothing better. I stopped being a republican not because of Trump as anyone can elect a bad president. Rather I stopped voting for republicans because of the manner in which the republican leadership has enabled Trump. To vote against impeachment then say he was guilty is the ultimate form of cowardice and gave the finger to the entire country. I will never vote for a republican ever again. They have destroyed forever whatever esteem I so inaccurately assigned to them. I don't particularly like the democrats but now they are all that is left. Once again, this is Democracy...the lesser of two evils.
Interesting story of your voting history. I believe there are many like you who have seen reality over time. I especially appreciate that the misconception of Republicans are better at balancing the checkbook. Somewhere you learned the facts. It behooves us all to keep telling facts to correct misinformation and disinformation!
In fairness, the Repubs are great at balancing the checkbooks of the super rich.
They have checkbooks???
David, your post (re. "the lesser of two evils") is a cry out for the need of Ranked Choice Voting (RCV) in Federal Elections. Enacting it doesn't have to follow the interminable state-by-state route: the Democrats could enact it for all Federal elections (see the Constitution, Article 1, Section 4, the Election Clause, key word: "Manner") when they have the votes to do it. We might have to encourage them with an organized public outcry, since the Political Duopoly helps ALL incumbents). Our one-choice-only, plurality system imposes the "voter's dilemma" on all of us who vote: Do I vote for whom I truly want elected, or do I vote for the "lesser of two evils" who might actually win, so my vote actually counts? RCV eliminates the voter's dilemma. Make your favorite your first choice and your "lesser of two evils" your second choice (which we're finally allowed to express when we have RCV). If your favorite is eliminated during the instant run-off elimination tallies enabled by RCV, your second choice is elevated and counted.
Without the burden of the voter's dilemma, your favorite non-duopoly candidate's chances of winning might be greatly increased. Without the voter's dilemma, and the duopoly it protects, could Ralph Nader, to everyone’s surprise, perhaps have won the 2000 Presidential election?
WITH RCV, the current duopoly, in time, would lose its power so that third-party candidates or independents might often win, allowing many more points of view to be considered.
WITH RCV, political bosses in Congress would lose the weapon of threatening to "primary" members of Congress to maintain party discipline (which enables non-partisanship and radicalism like the current House Republican clown show). That threatened member of Congress would have the realistic response of running as an independent.
WITH RCV, candidates must consider voters who give them their second choices, third choices, etc., if they are to accumulate an absolute majority during the run-off tallies. This consideration will cause them to be moderate, rational, and conciliatory: firebrands lose!
WITH RCV, potential voters, no longer frustrated by the constraint of only one choice but being able to more fully communicate their preferences, might be more interested in exercising their voter franchise. Greater voter participation makes for a healthier, more robust democracy.
Don, this works for me
I know many who favor RCV. I think it makes sense..but with T challenging the “simpler” system we currently use as corrupted, can you imagine what he and his followers would do to challenge RCV?
Thank you Joyce for this informative commentary on this trial. Even if the jury awards a substantial amount I still worry for E. Jean Carroll, her attorneys, the jury and Judge Kaplan. Trump and his band of creeps are horrendous. I can’t imagine living with that kind of fear.
I think that’s very much the point: the fear and the threats that continue.
One has to wonder if hunger for fame is actually projection by any lawyer foolish enough to attach his or her star to a bumbling cretin like Trump.
She'll go down in flames as do the other Trump lawyers. Karma is a bitch!
Don't insult Karma. Or bitches!
ah well if Karma exists, it will get me back!
Her over-plumped lips ought to tell you everything.
Are this kind of ad hominem insults really useful in any way at all? You sound like Trump.
To quote John McEnroe, "You can't be serious!"
Indeed
Once again, every accusation is a confession.
If she scores a good deal with Faux News, she will have both fame (in a certain sector) and fortune.
In the post "me-too" world, I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some knowledge by these jurors of the bad actors that have been in the recent high profile cases. The disturbing numbers of powerful men guilty of these sexual crimes is a genuine signature of our era. Even without specific knowledge of Trump's previous reputation, I'd imagine he looks like the proverbial rapists/attackers that have been outed and punished previously.
E. Jean Carroll is another person who has taken on this fight for us all (I'm a man, btw) and her courage should be illuminated further as a blunt rebuttal for Habba's tawdry descriptions of her seeking fame. Nobody is buying that manure.
maybe sue Habba for Defamation? This could go on for ever.