95 Comments

Joyce you are a treasure... Not holding my breath either, but... we can't ignore the pressure of the reasonable people outside the House. There are a lot of us with common sense and are not ready to kneel in front of short visionned and ill hearted House Representatives.

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I agree and I'm convinced that when we exert pressure on our representatives, including on social media, it has an impact.

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It is distressing that poorly educated, uninformed bomb throwers want to be, and are elected to office. Their aims have nothing to do with public service or having government operate smoothly for the benefit of citizens. It is dangerous to have people in both Houses whose idea of public service is to stall whatever the Democrats want to do and push the agenda of the crackpot caucus. Where does this crowd think their ideas for governing will end? I’m not sure they’ve thought that far ahead. Heaven help us, because the Matts and Marjories are not in Washington for that purpose. They’re there to blow our House down.

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Those bomb throwers act like they are on Survivor: The Congressional Edition. They are only in it for their 10 minutes of fame on Fox. Isn't it ironic that they want to break the government they campaigned to get elected to?

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I just responded to you, but I think it was lost in the ether. It it appears elsewhere, apologies.

The answer to your question was supplied by James Carville: They are the Congressional Kardashians.

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I do not believe they will succeed. Everyone knows they want real power but are playing with unreal and unreliable tactics. Their nasty confrontations will only cause more chaos and a bigger hole than they can climb out of.

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👍

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founding

I think… I’m going to have to just keep the tv news shut off, limit newspaper reading, stick to substack (yes, including Civil Discourse) and long-form print and podcast journalism to stay sane the next two years. The sheer insane turmoil of 2016-2021 national political theater is coming back, again, including to my state (LaTurner, Marshall, Moran, Kobach).

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I'm just glad I make the cut :)

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founding

Of course!

And I enjoy hearing you and Preet on Cafe Insider too!

I have to take a diet on TV (despite a few stand-out hosts, like one TV former prosecutor, but I can't pick favorites here), but too much TV just gets me too worked up. As well, there is having to lunge for the mute button during TV commercials (so many prescription drugs!). Seems podcasts/blogs are one way to stay tuned while not being overwhelmed by the current and the absurd advertising.

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I'm with ya on that one!

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Indeed. Podcasts are calm in comparison and give us need to know information without the drama.

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Agree. And McCarthy has AGAIN welcomed Trump back into the daily ruckus of the Republican Party - moments after being elected Speaker. So all those so-called “moderate” Republicans who wanted to be rid of Donny just voted in the man who will assure Donny acts as Speaker through him. House Rs are all morons and deserve losing it all in 2024 after the 2-year SHITSHOW their “leader” will assure.

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founding

It did feel like a litmus test, though, when TFG got nominated, he got exactly ONE VOTE to be speaker. What a pin-pop to his ego balloon. Dining room must have another red tomato splat on the wall.

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But TFG won in the end. I’m sure he and Kevin will talk daily so he can instruct Kevin what to do - all the revenge antics he wants to see and Kevin will oblige. And I now believe all these so-called “moderate” “conservatives” Rs who voted for Kevin knew exactly what they were voting for. Hey, MSM and journalists, you can’t call them moderate or conservative if they keep voting for an entirely different message of chaos and anti-democracy. Actions speak louder than words. These “conservatives” only needed a group of 5 among them to determine a better alternate to Kevin and negotiate with the Dems (nonpartisan) to achieve it. Instead they all let Kevin sign away the power of the Speakership and a 2-year clown show that will likely lose them their seats in 2024.

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I completely agree with you, but TFG doesn't need to discuss it with McCarthy because according to Trump, his closest contact in Congress is Jim Jordan. And, in November, before the midterms, Jordan already had sent letters to Garland and Wray, requesting long lists of documents he wanted, and threatening them with investigations. And, he had written to Ron McClain telling him that Jordan planned on interviewing 42 members of the Biden Administration. It was clear he planned on trying to reframe the Insurrection so he could blame Democrats, and was aggressively giving interviews.

I emailed President Biden about this. I was hoping Democrats would put together a top tier group of attorneys, as well as finally hire a first-rate political pr agency to work on messaging. I fear that neither has happened.

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I hope Biden listens.

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I'm sure he didn't. I sent it at the beginning of November when Jordan starting sending his letters. Since my senators and congressperson have done nothing about anything, I finally just started writing directly to Biden during the third or fourth month of his presidency. I registered as a Democrat when I was first able to, which was when I was 21. I'm now 72, and I have never felt that my voice has been less heard than during the Trump administration (when I contacted my Democratic senators and representative), and this administration as well. While Biden has signed a lot of significant legislation, and had many accomplishments, I have been disappointed that he doesn't communicate better, and that Democratic messaging remains as awful as it always has been. Sorry, I sound so negative, but it's been eight years since Trump starting campaigning and six, since he was elected, and I'm tired of watching Democrats make the same mistakes over and over. An inability to anticipate problems, and take actions before they happen, isn't the sign of a strong leader. While this administration does a fine job of communicating with our allies, I don't believe they do a good job of communicating with us.

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At least you're near the Menninger Clinic, where I thought I might do a spell during the Trump years -- which aren't over, btw.

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founding

I'll be building a padded room to visit; there is no Menninger Clinic in Topeka any more, if you didn't know... Long before I moved here, in 2003 it moved to Houston, and it seems to have quite a large campus, but it would be a bit of a drive. (What would the definition of "crazy" be in Texas, now?) Some folks who chose not to move south still are in Topeka; it was quite a blow to lose that institution. A shell of the old campus still sits empty on the hill, and most Topeka mental health services are outsourced to for-profit companies now, I believe.

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Jan 8, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance

Well, I suppose it would be a euphemism to say the next two years in the House should be interesting. I just hope it’s not a total horror show.

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Jan 8, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance

"May you live in interesting times" is no benevolent phrase. It's a curse.

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Haha, yes. Interesting Times are only interesting in hindsight.

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Isn't there a curse that says: "May you live in interesting times."

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Yes. It's Chinese, I think.

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It is, indeed, Chinese.

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I like steaming on demand because I can pause or go back or forward and omit the superfluous mish mash.

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Jan 8, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance

"It is only because of their stupidity they're able to be so sure of themselves." Kafka. Was Kafka prescient? Let's start election cycle recognizing we need leaders with a little humility.

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I have been meaning to reread Kafka. I reread 1984 (and even taught it) at the beginning of the Trump administration and am currently rereading Elie Wiesel, but I'm going to put Kafka next on the list. Thanks for the flag!

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The Trial.

Thank again for your hard work of keeping us informed.

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Professor Vance, I recommended that all of my high school teacher friends teach 1984 at that same time. After reading Animal Farm my daughter put that on her to read list as well. She is about to read Kafka's The Metamorphosis with a friend. Let me know whether you recommend The Trial as well.

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The Dunning-Kruger Effect: The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias[2] whereby people with low ability, expertise, or experience regarding a certain type of task or area of knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge. Some researchers also include in their definition the opposite effect for high performers: their tendency to underestimate their skills. (Wikipedia)

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But they just don’t know what that is (humility).

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Hi Tutone, Maybe we should write and tell them... it is a wonderful tonic that makes the struggles smaller and life quite joyous.

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But still hence a waste of time.

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Jan 8, 2023Liked by Joyce Vance

Thank you, Joyce, for your information. Bette Davis’ words come to mind: “Fasten your seat belts it’s going to be a bumpy night.”

We need to strap ourselves in for many bumpy nights for the next two years!

Stay strong.

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Realizing they have not learned respect for the American people or themselves I will remove any emotion from these unfortunate proceedings and allow justice to somehow prevail. It will be apparent in 2024. Notice how they keep losing no matter how hard they try?

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Quibbling aside, who needs a program, a procedural guide, or a rule book when we have Joyce?

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Why do the Democrats.always seem to be playing defence? It's a safe bet the Russians have scoped this out and have given Donald a plan A, B, and C to pass on to Kevin.

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I agree with you, and find it infuriating. We knew this would happen when we lost the midterms. From the time Trump lost the election (I later read it was months earlier), he spent all of his time trying to reverse the 2020 election by calling Secretaries of State throughout the country to get them to overturn it, filing his 60-plus lawsuits or working with others who would file them, sending MAGAs after election officials, spreading disinformation at rallies, and working with Jim Jordan, his closest contact in the House, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Sydney Powell, Mike Flynn, and members of the Freedom Caucus, to come up with ways to overturn the 2020 election, and plan the Insurrection and coup.

While a lot of that will hopefully help Jack Smith indict him, I wondered what we Democrats would do after we lost, to work on a campaign to get out in front of this. As I wrote above, I hoped President Biden finally would hire a top-tier political PR firm to drive the truthful narrative, and teach Democrats how to message, as well as put together a strong legal team to "sue them" before they persecute us. My feeling, from past experience, is that we've done nothing.

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Caving to fear does none of us any good.

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a friend noted that the "one vote to challenge" rule isn't limited to Republicans. Is that true? Ah, apparently not.

Can a House Rule be attacked as unconstitutional? Does a court have ANY jurisdiction over a House rule?

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Very important question.

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Joyce I noticed, in the 55 page document, that there is a section that reads; "Access to the Hall of the House. Subsection (p) strikes language providing Governors of Territories and the Mayor of the District of Columbia access to the Hall of the House." Does this address the non-voting members you mentioned from entering the house floor?

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Wow. Gail, indeed, here it is, the item you spotted is at page 14 of the 55-page document, lines 4 to 6.

The referenced rule for the previous (117th) congress is here:

https://cha.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/republicans-cha.house.gov/files/documents/117-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf

and if you search for Rule IV, look at item 2(a):

"2. (a) Only the following persons shall be admitted to the Hall of the House or rooms leading thereto:"

and a list follows with 17 groups / persons enumerated, and number 14 is

"(14) Governors of States and of the Territories and the Mayor of the District of Columbia."

By the new rules of the 118th congress, it changes to read:

""(14) Governors of States ."

Astonishing.

Said Mayor and territorial Goverernors would seem to have been handed a "no entry," and if there is taxation without representation, that sounds to me like a reason for... a tea party revolt, if history is any guide. Someone call Newt G. to let him know.

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If the House is going to conduct sham investigations perhaps the Senate can conduct some legitimate investigations on important topics such as campaign finance violations, fake charities, income tax evasion, other fraud. I can’t keep up with all of this. There is also the anxiety of a debt ceiling crisis and how negatively it will impact our economy, global economies are our own retirement accounts. I’m wearing all black all weekend to mourn the damage to our increasingly fragile Democracy.

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It’s just got to play itself out. The McCarthy team will accomplish nothing and pave the way for true governance in 2024.

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I am so damned sad.

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That's part of Putin's plan. He wants us to be depressed, because angry people are harder to manipulate.

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How true! Sad people just check out. Angry people hyper-check in!

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Get a grip. Have some faith and focus on the good that will come out of this. They want you to be afraid and go to pieces. That’s the autocrat’s playbook.

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It’s just not looking good for a sane House working for the people. My senator (I) AZ (damn her) better get right on what’s important and help keep the house in check. Always a pleasure to read your perspective.

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MSM keeps referring to my rep, Dave Joyce, as a moderate, yet there he was on TV yucking it up with Kevin between the 14th and 15th ballots, kissing his butt. He’s not moderate. He’s just a SILENT, HIDE-IN-THE-OFFICE guy with a job he shouldn’t have supporting the whole clown show through his silence. There are no moderate or conservative Republicans in the U.S. House. Not one R in the House tried to find a better alternative to Kevin and work with the Dems to make it happen. They ALL want the SHITSHOW for our country.

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AGREED- that’s their goal- it was performance.

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Just wondered what Senator Sinema is up to these days? It's sort of difficult to be a "party of one." I guess it's fitting that she's an Independent because at one point, she was disliked equally by Democrats and Republicans. Allegedly, she will sit on the Democratic side and caucus with Democrats. But, since they mostly despise her, it undoubtedly would be more comfortable for her on the Republican side. In one of the many articles I've read about her--awhile ago--she was talking about her closeness with McCarthy, when she served in the House, which wouldn't endear her to Democrats either.

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Professor Vance, thank you for sharing your insights on what we are facing with this new Republican dominated House. I am furious at the laziness of the so called Moderate Republicans that they just stood back and let all this happen. Where were the moderate concerns they should have been negotiating. They are all weak and pathetic. The concept of Moderate Republican is an oxymoron, and furthermore, in German news on ZDF yesterday, it was clear that everyone in Europe is looking to see what impact this is going to have on our foreign policy first and our domestic policy secondly. It is no surprise that Sweden and Italy were emboldened to vote in Right wing parties into their government after seeing the threats our democracy is facing here in the USA. I am grateful that the far-right in France did not succeed. Clearly democratic ideas matter more than just self interested short none insightful ideas of economic well-being and cultural purity! Whiteness! Anne Gellinick, the anchor interviewed someone from the publication Foreign Affairs, and a German scholar in foreign affairs at the Brookings Institute in Washington. First the Foreign Affairs expert interviewed said that it is problematic for McCarthy to be beholden to this group. Then, the German expert said that she does not know where this will go because McCarthy does not have to follow what he has promised. However, it sounds like from what you are saying he has to set the rules when the House returns and since he is beholden to Trump he has to follow a Trump agenda. All of these extremists are beholden to Trump, so a minority group, who are after destroying our government and setting up for Trump to be emperor of the USA for life, or whatever he wants to do just so that they can stay in power as his minions with no fresh ideas of their own, as a little sickening junior high level White Supremacist fantasy. Let everyone read Professor Kathleen Belew's Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and Paramilitary America, which writ large includes Europe too, since they all met together in the Pacific Northwest stronghold after the bombing of the Edward R. Murrow Federal building to plan moving forward. Goals to create chaos in the government whilst pretending to be less extremist--using less obvious racist rhetoric (although since they don't know other people well, and have no insight--they are pretty obvious with their racist messaging on everything), and more anti-immigration language. Caving in to this anti immigrant wave is agreeing with a White Supremacist agenda, and ignoring the facts that I read in a Foreign Policy article last week, we have a 10 million vacancy in jobs and we have only 4.6 million people who are unemployed. By their statistics we clearly need to be helping people immigrate and setting up a policy beyond personal sponsorship to do that. We need the government to be building low income housing (government subsidized), since there is not only a shortage of workers, but a huge shortage of housing, particularly low income housing. This housing should be for students, working poor, people on welfare, retired poor, and immigrants. This idea is not in line with the Republican party agenda, however, it would be good for our country.

We need to be informing ourselves on the issues and writing to all of our politicians to demand that they be implementing those ideas which can be done, and at least trying to improve our living circumstances in this country. A lot is going to need to happen on the State level with our House or Representatives so tainted by nation destroyers. What is clear from the people interviewed on German news, since this was the top news story last night, is that our foreign and domestic policy affects everyone else on this planet. What is bad for us is bad for everyone, and Donald Trump is bad news. We are going to have to be more vocal than the right wingers in these next 2 years demanding, educating, explaining and defending the good governance of our country. Thank you Professor Vance for embracing the important role you play in this.

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Ai-yai-yai! Fasten your seat belts, check the chin strap on your helmet, and pack a parachute. Joyce, I do soooo appreciate your clear-eyed and easily comprehensible, for us lay folk, analysis of all this *stuff*. Understanding how it's happening and the ramifications thereof doesn't ease my anxiety, but I do feel informed and can better attempt my citizen duties. I've downloaded and have been trying to read through the Jan6 report 😵‍💫 but depend more on your rendering of the info. So, thank you - and see ya on tv next time you're on MSNBC 🤗

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Joyce, after reading your piece, which is very helpful in understanding what will happen tomorrow, my response is a profound disappointment in the Constitution, which now seems completely ineffective in protecting us because the founding fathers never would have considered that we would elect a seditionist president and/or that one political party would support his lawlessness, and traitorous behavior.

I also feel so very angry that my worst expectation will be realized tomorrow because justice hasn't been served. Attorney General Merrick Garland was sworn in on March 11, 2021, and yet he has failed to indict any of the Congressional Republicans who allegedly participated in working to overturn the 2020 election and undoubtedly in planning the Insurrection and coup. Tomorrow, a number of those alleged seditionists within the Republican Party, will dominate the proceedings as they are rewarded for their anti-Democratic behavior and elevated to leadership positions.

I wonder how you explain this travesty to your students, because during the summer of 1973, when I was in college, I took a history class in which our primary assignment was to watch the hearings, which we discussed with our professor every day. And, it was most heartening, instructive, and uplifting, and strengthened my belief in our democracy. I worry about the impact of all this on today's crop of students who see a "broken system" led by treacherous politicians.

Finally, I would like to provide an example of the kind of judicial failure I am speaking about, and to name names. I wish to focus on a very important White House meeting that mostly has been overshadowed. More than a year ago, on December 21, 2021, 11 House members, predominately from the Freedom Caucus, attended a White House meeting with Trump, Pence, Meadows, and Giuliani to strategize about overthrowing the 2020 election. They are: Mo Brooks (AL), Brian Babin (TX), Andy Biggs (AZ), Matt Gaetz (FL), Louie Gohmert (TX), Paul Gosar (AZ), Andy Harris (MD), Jody Hice (GA), Jim Jordan (Ohio), Scott Perry (PA), and Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA).

The meeting was briefly mentioned by Rep. Murphy in the seventh Select Committee hearing. It was not given the importance it deserved, possibly because aside from Rudy Giuliani, four of the participants who attended, Jim Jordan, Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks, and Scott Perry, did not voluntarily testify nor did they honor their subpoenas. (Brooks later agreed to testify, but wanted so many stipulations that they didn't pursue him.) After the meeting, Mo Brooks, on behalf of Matt Gaetz asked Trump for a blanket pardon for himself and Gaetz as well as for everyone else who attended, and a number of people who didn't (but possibly were given assignments).

FYI...I've spent a lot of time researching this meeting, reading the hearing transcript, and finding and reading stories in local newspapers in which participating House members served, rather than in national publications, because the meeting barely was mentioned. Another interesting point is the Pat Cipollone was not invited to this meeting, and was turned away when he heard about it, and tried to participate. While I don't trust that AG Garland will pursue this, I am hoping that Special Counsel Jack Smith will.

One story about the meeting is entitled: 11 House Republicans attended a White House meeting with Trump to strategize about overturning the election results on January 6. Six of them later asked for pardons. The link is: https://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-white-house-meeting-december-21-2020-election-2022-7 While Insider isn't the best source, it's usually fairly accurate.

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