466 Comments

The mainstream media should relentlessly report what you’ve written. Instead, it’s all about his trial, his power, his high poll numbers, etc. I’ve come to detest the media for its ignorance, mediocrity, and seeming determination to give trump the White House. Everything Joyce has written should be their focus, not the trivia bs I see and hear everyday. It would also be helpful if they’d mention Joe Biden’s daily accomplishments as he works hard to undo trump’s attempts to destroy us. If I hear one more time about Joe’s age, gaffs, or low poll numbers, I may scream.

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Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC are exemplar in their truth telling reporting who I watch religiously.

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Add Nicolle Wallace to that group too.

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I wish all of them would also point out who is behind Trump winning. The Millers, Bannons, Flynns, Heritage Foundation and others who are the brains behind Trump and really dangerous. Trump is just all about Trump and his backers know how to manipulate him to get to their real goal of control without borders or checks and balances.

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Not to forget the mega-money that's behind all of them, esp. the Heritage Foundation and ALEC.

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... and Putin too.

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Mainly Putin. Remember what Nancy said: "All roads lead to Putin." She was right. She still is.

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The only reason Trump survived his term is because those you named didn’t trust Mike Pence.

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And Ari Melber too!

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And Ali Velshi, and Joy Reed.

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Nov 9, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023

And Brian Stelter. oops. CNN fired him.

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Because he told the truth.

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Alex Wagner, Stephanie Ruhle, Jen Psaki....There are a lot of great reporters/commentators at MSNBC.

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And Ari Melber too

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The problem is, the people who need the information do not watch those shows and would not believe them. When we lived in a world of Walter Cronkite, where the news was just that, (actual, factual news) instead of opinions and propaganda, it was easier. IT was reported on actual news programs and in reputable publications. Hear the facts, form your own opinion. The media is controlled by money now and the people with the money control the message. The Washington Post, the publication that exposed Nixon, will now be run by a Rupert Murdoch guy. If that's not an omen, I don't know what is.

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I loved Walter Cronkite.

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We had 3 channels and no internet.

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I remember those days. The news wasn't flashy or entertaining, just news. I miss that. Now, the airwaves are filled with non-news and the opinions of those spewing it. I want to keep up with current events, but don't want someone trying to tell me "what it's all about". If I want an interpretation, that's what discussion is for. It's disheartening that the current state of animosity in America is stopping people from having good conversation with those of differing thoughts. Society suffers because of it.

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founding

If we do not have the capacity to distinguish what’s true from what’s false, then by definition the marketplace of ideas doesn’t work.

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Truth is many get their news from social media, not tv news! How sick is it that they get their news from the hub of deception and misinformation!

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Lori, who is the Murdoch guy?

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William Lewis, a reporter-turned-executive who spent years working in British media and for Rupert Murdoch-owned companies, has been named the CEO and publisher of The Washington Post.

His most recent gig was with the Wall Street Journal

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Hella. I should’ve waited until morning to read this. I think some of those Pulitzer reporters are going to be mighty upset. This is horrid news.

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Might be true, but apparently CBS still has a relatively large following of conservatives.

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founding

Problem is, they are not. I do a review of mistruths told by the various "News Agencies". Fox News is the worst with over 65% untruths, and next comes MSNBC with 47%. CNN used to be bad, but now better with 20%. NPR is the best. Tutone, I watch them too, but I also 'watch' what to believe...and Rachel is not all of MSNBC.

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Interesting numbers, can you supply your sources? Thank you

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I agree the source needs to be posted. I started to do a search for the source but it's a lot to go through so I won't. The numbers here seem odd and we have no time stating when this was done.

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I mean it is possible that inaccurate information comes out from all outlets just want to make sure.

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founding

See above Sherri

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I see. Tnx.

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founding

https://www.purevpn.com/blog/unbiased-news-sources/. and https://www.statista.com/topics/3251/fake-news/#topicOverview and I did my own analysis last year, can't find the numberson my harddrive though

Here are some of the most biased news outlets that you should avoid:

Fox News

MSNBC

InfoWars

Sky News

Breitbart News

I too was astounded that MSNBC is right up there, but it is again and again

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MSNBC I would agree is a left site. I don’t agree that is spews false information.

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founding

Look at the sites that analyze untruths. This is not about you agreeing with me or not. The people who count the facts are right or wrong, decide based on their methodologies.

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Nov 10, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023

I'm sorry but purevpn.com and statistica.com are both commercial websites. Their 'opinions' are no more unbiased than mine. Do you have any research based sources that are valid? We all know about InfoWars (Alex Jones with his mega millions off-shore accounts where he has hidden his money from creditors); Breitbart (former home of Bannon); all Trump buddies taking the fifth. So why is MSNBC lumped in there? I will send some valid sites later tonight. With Alex Jones pulling information from who know where, he simply cannot be counted as valid. There is no validity in the opinion-based methodology of commercially owned purevpn and statistica (the name does not really mean they do valid statistics).

Visit factcheck.org - put together by the Annenberg Public Policy Center. They have an archive.

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founding

looking forward to what you come up with Valere.

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MSNBC is my go to evening news channel. I never watch FOX due to its incredibly bad reporting and bias. I can’t believe the two are rated the same. I have always liked NPR for its factual reporting and I will read reports from the Guardian. The best news on MSNBC starts with Nicole Wallace at 4pm and goes right up to Lawrence O’Donnell at 10pm.

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Thanks for the NPR reminder. I have to go back to listen to them.

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They are the best on the continent. Many Canadians watch the PBS Newshour.

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Being a PBS/NPR ‘sustainer’ I like hearing this. The BBC is also strongly supported by many the same donors though the PBS hour is about all I can manage other than snippets.

I do think for the exaggerations that MAY be part of the % afore mentioned, the main balance is truth with subliminal encouragement ‘silver lining’. Most of the factuals I DEPEND on HCRichardson, Joyce, and Ruth for.

We ALL like a little entertainment , and some sell the point well enough for me to excuse a little embellishing, another BRAVO for the avid researchers in this family🥰, BLESS YA!

We all know who and what is ‘the other end’..thank your preferred deity for inventing the remote...and the often used mute button😉🤣

Robert Reich did two pieces this morning (just can’t afford you yet Robert, sorry) , interesting . Life expectancy ...mentioned was the COViD factor as I surmise it still a huge impact -LT COVID affects being more commonly pointed out often.

Stress is another under-rated factor needing loving focus. What stress reductions need mentioned more often .

My list: simple daily and ‘religious’ following.

Stretch upon waking

Breath deeply then and every hour thereafter.

Music/Singing along

Water intake-half your weight in ounces or as close as possible

Daily exercise : swimming, dancing, yoga, walks in the park/woods/local track

Nutrition..comfort foods are treats ONLY.

All things needed for a good.night’s. sleep.

Hugs🫶

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Hi Patricia, I started doing resistance stretching via Bob Cooley's Zooms. I am sorry I do not have the specific journal article to reference for you, but Harvard, Johns Hopkins, NIH and the American Heart Association have all published - the article I read indicated that resistance stretching was comparable to fast walking for heart health. I am working to fix a horseback riding accident from 2017 - I've had years of therapy, stem cell in a clinic in Mexico, but Cooley's resistance stretching has been the best. Sometimes it has been like surgery without the anesthetic - but I'm almost at zero pain (finally:) Now, I'm using it for stress - beyond fabulous. Then one can sleep like a baby. I swim, walk, do yoga as well.

stre

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founding

CBS has a very high rating ineverything I have seen, and although it leans left in terms of readers, a good number of Republicans read it too, and it is known for its unbiased reporting. Maybe Heather and Joyce should be read on CBS?

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I have to say this sounds dubious to me.

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I'd like to know the criteria for truthful or untruthful. An opinion piece shouldn't be judged either way. Straight news can be judged, but I often hear MSNBC hosts say they are waiting for more corroboration before they present as fact. There is inherent bias in everything because we're human and made up of all the information we've taken in since birth. Or before.

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News needs to be fact-based. Check it all with factcheck.org.

factcheck.org is a project put together by the Annenberg Public Policy Center. You can check your articles through this site, as they rate all of the 'fact checkers.'

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A very smart observation today was fact is not a selling rebuttal because fantasy is the preferred ‘reality’ .

I wonder why happiness, peace, stability ,no longer dress up the table...maybe because too many don’t have this anymore?

The reasons are multiple but focusing on the 5 main underlying causatives is strategic..

It would be interesting to see what people’s 5 are:

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Thanks for the link!

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founding

It's what I have been reading and researching for a number of years. It has helped me stay away from the fake news, and why shouldn't the democrats and MSNBC put out propaganda too. What surprised me is that last year, CBS rose to the top of US News truthfulness ratings. I try to read 10 Papers per day (jumping over the repetitions. It allows me to "triangulate" on the real stroy often.

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ps Bruce, You need to be able to trace the claims to the original source.

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Bruce, Your triangulation is good because print sources are less likely to be regurgitated - but that is no guarantee that the article is 'true.' Make sure the writer gives sources.

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Bruce, see factcheck.org a project put together by the Annenberg Public Policy Center. You can check your articles through this site, as they rate all of the 'fact checkers.'

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These numbers are suspect. Source??

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The problem is they're pretty much preaching to the choir.

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Yes. The magats simply do not listen to anything but the tRump approved outlets!

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And worse. All the Q Anon, and foreign entities sowing discord and all the crazy sh** that's out there

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founding

Heather was asked for whom she was writing her latest book. Her answer was pretty good: "For the undecided, and for those who have some doubts"

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Ali Veishi is outstanding. Love the nights he covers for Lawrence O’Donell. Ali is clear,sharp and thorough without the pomposity and wind-bag tendency of Lawrence.

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founding

I like Nancy Wallace. She brings people on who are authorities and know their stuff.

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I am aware of them.

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And Chris Hayes. And Stephanie Ruhl.

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MSNBC preaches to the converted.

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Nov 13, 2023·edited Nov 13, 2023

Hi TutoneSF, I know this is not the place we were talking about the lentil recipe, but here is where to find it: https://www.opb.org/artsandlife/series/cooking/recipe-teff-pancakes-spicy-ethiopian-red-lentil-soup/

I didn't have time to retype it but I shall. For now, you can find it here, and can copy and print to Microsoft Word, if you use that program. It is from: 'Easy Soups from Scratch with Quick Breads to Match: 70 recipes to pair and share. Author: Ivy Manning, 2017. The recipe was featured on this website. The best comfort food! Her recipe for Savory Teff Pancakes is on the site I have sent. I wanted to share this site because my days are backed up - not sure when I will be able to type it and send it, but here's the access:)) Still freezing rain in my neck of the woods, so I'm making this again tonight (since IMHO its the best ever red lentil soup/stew). Amy Manning deserves the James Beard or some such medal.

ps: I make my own Bebere' spice blend. I know they have one at Whole Foods (haven't tried it), because I prefer blending my own spices (small amounts from 1 oz. organic packets so they are fresh).

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They do a better job than the others, but they are not hammering on Trump's stated agenda.

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Except the good people of MSNBC are preaching to the choir. If the major networks and what remains of newspapers aren't reporting these things it's all for naught.

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It's funny stepping through the replies to your post. We're making sure the notables get covered. They're all great (Psaki is pretty darn cool) and have different things we all like about them. I've pulled back from Maddow and get wired from Hayes instead.

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It is not that they are “ignorant!” Some like Fox (and many others we don’t watch) are deliberately misleading while others like CNN think they must bend the truth or uncritically to be nonpartisan or true to both sides. That attitude buries the truth!

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Yes! You are absolutely correct, “that attitude buries the truth.”

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We need to use the template of the Heritage Foundation and others to raise big funds to have a network tv 1 hour event titled “The Danger of Losing Our Democracy.” Or any similar wording. It would need to be fast-passed. Complete with Video clips. This is a clarion moment like no other. We need to shave away some of our extreme issues that turn off a large segment of the population. You know what they are. Anytime I get specific I get chastised but I’m only expressing my opinion like everyone else.

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Organization is key, and fieldwork is the answer. But let’s address voters as we find them. Is the voter undecided, skeptical, indifferent, single issue or all in? Registered? Have an ID? The correct precinct? Need a ride to the polls? Interested in volunteering or supporting a local or statewide get-out-the-vote organization? And by all means convey to others Heritage’s dedicated efforts to suppress votes, intimidate and exclude eligible voters (including college students in swing states). Yes, our democratic republic is at stake, in every sense, but it’s also important to recognize a number of voters have personal issues that first need to be addressed.

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Good breakdown Tom…’what’s the issue for you’ question, huh? Organizing takes such questions , categorizes the answers then focus on top 3-5.

But again for the MAGA bunch there is no solution but burning it all down . They are NOT interested in fixing problems, just the limelight, chaos, and notoriety their screaming antics get…bought into the circus harp , fantasy fools, mafia mentality. But their backers are the dangerous proliferators.

The trending news …they are losing their seats!

People are ‘waking up’ , disgusted with the show, and going to vote in increasing numbers.

Let’s continue encouraging this. 🗣️proud of our Democrats showing up👏🙌🫶

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You nailed it Ira. Do you have suggestions for us - besides vote Blue and encourage others? Should we send Joyce's blog tonight to email lists? I think Propublica should investigate the New York Times. We know Fox is misleadig.

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Live TV/Youtube news adds much entertainment to the information, and each network colors the shows certain ways to attract and retain viewers. I try to always read the news too - Reuter's, NPR, AP, and various authors who seem to honor the truth and provide facts and sources. Often the flashy news (today Ivanka) gets airtime way out of proportion to its importance.

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I just put it on my fb page. Most will not believe it and others won't read it. I hope some do, but if I don't take the opportunity to educate them, am I helping to end democracy?

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Absolutely, Kay! Some are educable. Those will be your FB readers. The cult member MAGA followers will not read, but we have to be resilient, and work resolutely until we elect Joe Biden in 2024, and see Trump incarcerated.

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I have just sent this to some on my email list and hoping they will read it. This is very scary stuff.

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founding

If we do not have the capacity to distinguish what’s true from what’s false, then by definition the marketplace of ideas doesn’t work, and then we are toast.

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But we already are toast and applying some Irish butter is just allowing breakfast to taste a little better.

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..that’s a clever point ...introduction 101 to smoke screens bruce...it worked for them😉

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founding

Write to the editor and demand correct coverage. I have done so with WAPO and NYT. The polls are wrong (I can only suspect that NYT is doing this to get us off our Butts to vote.)

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“Getting us off our butts” is not a justification for the incredible failure of media to speak directly of and to the voters as Civil Discourse has just done. It is imperative that the media become much more committed to A. Providing a clear and comprehensive report of the work of the Biden Administration and its impact, and B. They move forward with regular investigative reporting of what Trump did as President and what he and his dark money cohorts are planning if he is re-elected.

We only have to recognize the warning Justice Michael J. Luttig offered during his testimony with the House Special Committee to Investigate January 6 when he stated, “They are going to do the same thing in 2024. How do I (we) know? Because they are telling us.”

We are, as the author of Civil Discourse writes, in this together.

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Agree! They are in our faces with transparency! We just have to be smart enough to realize what’s happening!

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The press' job is to report the news, not decide to get people "off their butts" to vote.

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“Report the news” could otherwise be construed as “get to the truth of the matter.” When news companies and individual reporters start being selective with their coverage of the facts then the fourth wall crumbles bit by bit. Agreeing to what constitutes facts - there is the issue. Fox people know full well what kind of shell game they are playing with their viewers. CNN wants to play the ratings game by bending over backwards to be non-committal and MSNBC states what should be obvious to anyone paying attention. They won't ever get the viewers that need to her what they are reporting. ‘Murica

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The mainstream media is a tool of the Oligarchic ownership of the press.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/

We need to be informing everyone we personally know and writing letters to the press when possible.

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No it isn't. It's simply a profit-motivated industry in a capitalist society.

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Great point. News, used to be a loss leader for tv networks as part of their civic duty. In late stage capitalism nothing but money matters. Not truth, not human well-being, not goodness, not beauty . It makes me angry and sad at the same time.

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Twitter, X, is a fast way to let the media know your opinion about something they just reported. Others will read it too. If they like their Press freedom, they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

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I don't use Twitter X, or Facebook, Or Instagram, or Snapchat. I use Substack, Signal and email. I also write responses in the Washington Post and NYT, as well as my local newspapers in the USA.

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WaPo has just a new editor, Murdoch's boy.

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What. I thought that was the Wall Street Journal as part of the News Corp media empire. Murdoch's son Lachlin at age 52 has taken over from his 92 year old father, who saw fit to work up until now. Here is the editor of the WaPo. https://www.washingtonpost.com/pr/2023/07/26/philip-rucker-named-national-editor-washington-post/

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Hi Linda. Murdoch has not left WSJ. That was manufactured for optics. Follow the money: subscriptions were down, including mine. So Rupert pretends he’s gone, but he’s not. He won’t leave until he crosses over. I promise.

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That platform, besides fast, is one of the worst (or should I say best?) for misinformation.

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Agreed, Ginni. It is incumbent upon us to vote. That is the only way to stop him because we are still a democracy. Once he gets in office, our almost 250 year experiment dies.

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I am concerned about the states that have passed laws that allow them to change the votes! This man is already the dictator and in control! There has not been nor will there be real consequences for the many crimes.

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Hear Hear🙌

Thank you Joyce ( and Ginni ), now to the rest :

1) Share this with everyone who isn’t able to afford a subscription.

2) Highlight the local venues and GTVO so people will see we HAVE TO BE engaged , active, and aware .

3) Stay the push at this 2025 issue , they actually TELL ON THEMSELVES 👏

Theirs is a repetitive record , it’s a collective anomaly , very negative but extremely an extremist tactic that wears ,grates, but sinks through sadistically.

I so proud of this group, the authors, and comments are funny and REAL.

Even the nay sayers (who still spill nonsense/prove our point /provide fodder) are useful. The bottom line is we hope ‘they’ wake up vs bear down with the rhetoric. It’s SO OLD. It’s SO REVEALING..(which btw is advantageous ) .

Thanks brothers and sisters GOTV🙌

💙💙VOTE OUT ALL THE COMPLICIT💙💙

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Joyce cites and links the Washington Post.

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CNN, for one, was instrumental in trump’s win in 2016, with its 24/7 airtime devoted to trump sound bites, clips, and hyperbolic rhetoric - the more outrageous, the better. It became the National Inquirer of television. It’s obvious the MSM does NOT want a “normal” White House dedicated to Democracy, the Constitution and to the American people. That would be too boring for them. They want the chaos, the negativity, the gloom and doom, the outrageous antics of the repuglican party. I quit watching CNN in 2015 and now it’s even worse! It’s owned by a right-ringer and no different than Fox in my opinion.

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I'm screaming along with you Ginni. It's really sickening and I'm trying real hard to keep my blood pressure down but it's quite challenge.

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The mainstream media is nothing more than corporate pr. Who do those massive corporations and super wealthy people support? Republicans and trump are their weapons to kill our republic. We need free voices to get this message across.

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When I first learned of the "Heritage" Foundation in the 1980's, my blood ran cold a the prospect of what a well-financed, cagey, spiteful conservative group of hell-bent people could do. Now what is manifesting from them is even worse than I could have imagined. It is not just Trump folks; he just is a useful monster. The real menace is the greed of the hyper-wealthy control-mad oligarchs pulling for Trump.

Remain vigilant and to hell with polls.

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And let's not forget the damage done by the Federalist Society, either.

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Unfortunately it is very long-lasting damage, with lying youngsters sitting on SCOTUS.

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A lot of those polls are propaganda machines. Give it up. Stay focused. Remember everyone thought Biden would never win and he kept going and stayed focused.

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The behind the scenes MAGA propagandists are key in this war for US democracy. Thom Hartmann just posted an article on substack that asked why half of US citizens continue to find Donald Trump attractive. I have been thinking hard about this ever since. So I looked at alot of his mass mediated images. The US political arena is run like Hollywood is on creating cult followings through visual loyalty cues created by images of famous individuals. Think of Fonz and his leather jacket or Tom Cruise and that smile. Then I saw it and I now cannot unsee it. Trump visually mimics James Cagney with an occasional , usually unsuccessful, attempt at aping Cary Grant.

This subliminal visual tropes being cued here are obvious to all of a certain generation. The all American patriotic tough guy on the wrong side of the law for those wronged by iniquity with a heart of gold. He even uses Cagney’s speech rhythms. Strong culturally embedded visual memories are passed down through the generations. So before they know it some younger MAGA will find themselves singing: I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy…

I suggest we need to find a Bette Davis to mass mediate against his James Cagney.

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This is the article:

Why Is America So Vulnerable to Charlatans Like Trump?

https://hartmannreport.com/p/why-is-america-so-vulnerable-to-charlatans-397

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Thank you Joan! What an interesting and informative piece. Two curious notes as I read it: Thom Hartmann did not list Jeffrey Epstein as having hanged himself, as did Broeksmit and Bowers. Hartmann may not be buying the story that Epstein hanged himself. But the most interesting piece of information was Justice Kennedy's resignation to make room for Brett Kavanaugh. It was supposedly at Trump's request (but via the puppet masters who really run Trump. I've always thought he was the useful idiot for the mob whether US or Russia). So what was Anthony Kennedy to take from that request? "I either resign or hang myself?"

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Thank you Tutone!!

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So agree Bruce. I am very concerned with how far this group has come within the Republican Party. It’s taken them since the 80’s but now they have woven themselves into mainstream conservative thinking in a very manipulative way. It will, in my opinion, take a long time to change that and will require diligence on our part.

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Bruce

You bring up a good point. Trump is just being used. Once he's gone, the Heritage Foundation will find another stooge to further their nefarious plan. Who will they choose?

Reminds me of how Hershel Walker was used. Repubs figured a famous athlete could bring in the votes. Didn't matter who he was or what he believed - just bring in the votes, win, and we'll tell him how to vote. Hershel basked in the attention, seeming unaware of his actual purpose. They sent Lindsay to babysit him. It was a humiliation that went right over Hershel's head. It was obscene and I felt embarrassed for him.

What witless, attention-hog will be next after Trump? The Heritage Foundation is accepting resumes.

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I was embarrassed for Hershel over his being manipulated by such obviously malevolent people.

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Yes Bruce!

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Bruce, your words ring as true as these groups are duplicitous. They cover themselves in monikers with keywords such as “patriot” yet they reveal themselves unable to stop expressing their true intentions: to subvert liberty and usurp the independence of our branches of government. Joyce, this article (and your vigilance via Civil Discourse) has convinced me to subscribe to WAPO. We most certainly are in this together and all should be able to realize that our vote is the great equalizer- that is - it should be.

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Well said.

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BINGO!

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So many people do not even pay attention to "politics" or say they don't know enough about "politics" to get involved. When I tell them "politics" affects every area of their lives, I am usually met with silence. I don't know how to get through to people that we are staring at the end of democracy...

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When people tell me they “don’t do politics,” I reply, “Don’t worry, politics will do you anyway.”

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The run of the mill daily news is hard for people to take in because of the way it’s written. It isn’t conducive to keeping the readers attention. It’s boring and In my experience it intentionally does not really inform. Compare that to Joyce’s article today. If news was like this readers would eat it up. They would look forward to it every day. This kind of article is easy to read in its unmasked truthfulness. People turn away from reading about politics because it’s obvious certain news outlets want them to.

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I reread this later and don’t particularly like the conclusion. I meant they play up certain news and play down other news.

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I have this same problem Janet. People don’t want to hear what I’m saying. They get angry with me and some have even alienated me. Things I’ve heard, “but trump did so much good for our country,” “ lose our democracy? It will never happen!” “ all politicians are corrupt,” “ the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans,” “ don’t talk about politics in a social setting,” and on and on!

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founding

I reported “Stay Strong USA”. We don’t need trolls.

I have felt that our democracy was at risk for years starting with the Bush 2 administration. Not so much with him personally, but of his supporters. And the overt racism during the Obama years. Trump was just the torch that lit the fire, brought it all out in the open. Not just open season on persons of color, but on women, the LGBTQ community, and persons who do not observe fundamentalist christianity.

Don’t be complacent. Don’t bore the young voters with economic gains, it is not being felt at this stage of their lives. We still have unfair income inequality, basic services like health care being bought by equity companies and hedge funds, housing costs unaffordable to the middle class and an unfair tax system that benefits the wealthy and screwed the middle class during the last Trump tax law changes. Address them where it affects them personally, reproductive rights, personal rights, the right to be who you are and who you love.

Said from an old hippie boomer.

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Thank you Debi - agreed with all and as well for reporting 'Stay Strong USA' I also reported him/her.

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It looks like I missed the ‘Stay Strong USA’ post. Was it removed via being reported? Or, do I need to scroll through again?

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Hi Wineaux, We constantly report Stay Strong USA. He/she reappears.

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Valere, could you tell me how to report?

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Yes, near the bottom of the offender's post, at the right side, are three dots. Click on those dots and 'report' in red typeface appears. Click on that and you can write in the space 'why' you wish to report. You can say: 'troll' or 'offensive language' or 'improper topic' - whatever the offense may be. I usually just write 'troll' when the individual is a frequent visitor, spewing forth the same message - negative to our group.

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Thank you Valere. This Substack is literally one of the most "civil", and I have little tolerance for trolls or f-bombs. Usually I just suggest to the offending writers that they would be better received over at X. But now that I know about the dots . . .

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Indeed Pamela. You are so welcome. I was spending many minutes sending rewrites and edits until a kind person on this sub stack informed me about the three dots. One thing that is beneficial about using the three dots is you can just do the ‘report’ beneath the troll message and it’s anonymous to Joyce and her team, and the troll doesn’t know that you have reported him or her. Then the troll cannot attack you. Joyce might get several reports but it’s better than the troll having your name . By the way, I didn’t even know what a troll was until I joined this sub stack and people would type ‘troll alert.’ I had heard the term, but I had no clue about what it was. And I agree, this is a very kind community. An individual on this substack referred everyone to read a blog by a different substack writer. I read the blog article and then pasted the link to other people on this website. Then I went back in a couple days and read some of the comments on that substack. In fact, the blog post was so because informative, I was considering joining, but wanted to read the comments first. The gentleman did not have many commenters. The first two individuals were sort of in a fight and they were so vile that I decided I wouldn’t go back. There was a name calling and it was quite vicious. I don’t know if that is regular, but they were being quite vile to one another with name calling to one another. So I’m not joining him. I may or may not read his letters from time to time, but I’m certainly not engaging with a group that name calls. If one can’t figure out how to engage intellectually or in a debate without name-calling, with nasty bullying undertones they’re no better than Trump and I don’t have time for that. It seems they have co-opted the substack as a venue to spew their hate? Also, we are sometimes so frustrated and people are explosive with their words. I am guilty. We can always bracket the term [curse word] then anyone can use their own word - if they get that far in the reading.. If we are at the level that we can be in law school 101, we can surely find! a word to apply for an emotion when we are writing on a substack (besides f-bomb).

Trump is so exasperating.. it is difficult to sit back and wait for him to implode. He will, because that’s what narcissist do unless they use free will and change. One positive from the negative is those who do yoga will be doing lots of inhale and exhale with suspended breath, and those who have never done yoga breathing may take up yoga breath, so we don’t end up like Trump and his cult member followers. We have to save our energy for 2024 and following the election, roll up our sleeves, because we have work to do in our communities, bringing civics back to public school curricula and working on the electoral college mess. The idea of electoral college votes was to prevent a populist president coming on the scene and taking over. And look what’s happened with the help of the populist individuals gerrymandering buddies in the Republican party! We are at the place our forefathers were trying to prevent happening. That should tell anyone what a many-million headed snake can accomplish with enough time and money. How’s that for wordsmithing? Kumbayah!

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Excellent word smithing as always Valere! I always enjoy your comments. Thank you!

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You open the three dots and hit report. However, ever this ignorant person is, they have a right to express their opinion just because we disagree with it. But have at it. I frequently go on Fox and chastise the nut quacks and they invariably tell me to go back to cnn. Bla bla bla.

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founding

Go into the 3 dots to the right of the reply, that is the report link.

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Thank you Debi! I'm a total Luddite with tech ):

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founding

I also reported Stay Strong USA. Agree with you on all points. Young voters need one issue -- keeping our individual freedoms -- to goad them to vote. Everything else is noise.

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I agree with you 100%

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founding

I agree ... Thank You !! Debi

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Our Constitution is very clear, Amendment 14, Section 3, states he should not be allowed to run again, and our Justice system should be fighting like hell to uphold the 14th, sec 3.

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An important step of the "Justice system" is due from the state of Colorado Court on or about November 17, 2023. After Colorado, the state Justice system of Minnesota is likely to take the next step to enforce Amendment 14, Section .

As we all know, there are 4 pending court cases with 4 pending judgments likely well before January 2025.

There will be no Fourth Reich. Never.

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Minnesota Supreme Court dismissed yesterday the insurrection clause challenge for Trump to be on the primary ballot. So it is now up to Colorado.

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founding
Nov 9, 2023·edited Nov 9, 2023

Just for the primary ballot. Plaintiffs invited to sue to stop Trump listing on actual presidential election ballot, as I recall. Minn court said primary was private party process so they couldn't interfere with named candidates. However, my husband (a lawyer) objected, saying taxpayer $$ are used to run primary elections so we have standing and Trump should be out. Your take, Bryan?

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I think the Strands of Michigan are smart litigators.

Wolverines are tenacious.

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Bryan, just make sure you are not whistling past the graveyard. Underestimating Trumps “genius” for manipulating the media is how we have arrived where we are today. To THAT is where I say NEVER.

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I concur with your lens on the political universe.

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Thank you Bryan.

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He has to convicted, first.

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No he doesn't need to be convicted. Read the Amendment for your self, it is available on line. He doesn't even need to have physically participated in the violence. He needs to have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." On TV, watched by millions of us, he did give aid and encouragement to those attacking our Congress. I was one of those watching for the entire duration.

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As long as there is disagreement on what happened - an insurrection or an honest effort to be sure the election was truly fair - it will at least have the appearance of a political issue, not a criminal one. Very clever how they have all banded together with their Lie to gaslight everyone into a dark and conflicted place. One would think our Supreme Court scholars could read 14.3 and come to clear conclusions, but I fear they will not.

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The entire insurrection is on television and available for all to see. This was too obvious for "interpretation". Honest efforts do not include crushing a police officer's head between two glass doors, breaking windows, defecating and spreading feces over the walls of the Congressional building. breaking into offices, stealing laptop computers, spraying police officers with bear spray, hitting with flag poles, and on, and on. There was zero appearance of "honesty". Even after it was over and the votes were counted, and Mike Pence declared President Biden to be the winner, 147 MAGAts in Congress refused to accept the lawful count. I saw all this with my own eyes, I heard there chants of hang Pence, grab Pelosi. Sorry Bonnie, your version is unconvincing.

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Nov 10, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023

Hi Fay - I agree with you. Still, there are many who continue to claim otherwise which makes it look like a controversy. There appear to be many voters who refuse to see it any other way than the election was stolen and the process needed to be stopped. I watched every minute on 1/6/21 and was shocked and appalled. But there are still many who disagree with us (or claim they do).

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You are absolutely right on both points. There's not much we can do about the conspiracy theorists, I have a niece who absolutely believes in them, she always want to send me links to her sources. I keep telling her that unless the sources are from known, reliable scientists I won't believe them. 1/6 was definitely appalling, I will never forget that police officer with his face jammed between the folding glass doors and those morons pushing on it. That picture is burned into the optic portion of my brain.

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Even SCOTUS gets "Kill Mike Pence".& "I will be there with you.."

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One would hope. Seems obvious to me, but the insistence by MAGA that nothing was done wrong might give them cover.

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Bonnie, 'MAGA' can insist until the cows come home. The case is in court, Trump has been indicted. Trump, not 'MAGA' need to defend in court against Jack Smith. Trump's attorneys have submitted four Motions: the first is very thin. The second has a glaring error. They must do much more than 'insist' because Mark Meadows has likely agreed to testify about Trump's 'mindset.' Bill Barr (Trump's AG who resigned December 23, 2023, has testified to January 6, and Ivanka agreed with Bill Barr that Joe Biden won the election. Bill Barr first said the DOJ found no evidence of fraud. He later said that Trump knew full well that he had lost. Trump's mindset on January 6 is important to know: people close to Trump will testify against him that he absolutely knew he lost. So we don't need to worry about MAGA having cover - Jack Smith is not prosecuting MAGA; nothing is certain in court cases, but there is a lot of powerful testimony that Trump knew he lost.

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Hi Bonnie, Please read the Motions that Trump's attorneys filed in DC this week (the first was filed in October). They are rather thin. I'm not an attorney but their case law does not appear to match the current indictments.

On Motion 2, Trump's attorneys made a false claim on p. 29:

Trump's attorneys said: see also 146 CONG. REC.

E2180 (daily ed. Dec. 13, 2000) (statement of Rep. Mink) (“Based on the earlier certified results

[in Hawaii in 1960], the Republican electors met and cast their three votes for Nixon. The Democratic electors also met and cast their votes for Kennedy even though they did not have a certificate of election from the State.”) (emphasis added).

What really happened is this and I am hoping Jack Smith spots this: Hawaii had a RECOUNT and Kennedy, a Democrat overturned an initial result favoring Vice President Richard Nixon, a Republican. The result was considered an upset, as Nixon had been thought likely to win the state's electoral votes.

They repeated this on page 30. "And in 1960, Vice President Nixon—himself a candidate—decided which competing slate of electors to accept from Hawaii." That is not true: Hawaii became a state in 1959. It had been Republican Run by the Big Five and had a Republican appointed governor. The assumption was that Hawaii would go Republican. It did not. The young democrats (including Dan Inouye (Hawaii's first representative, elected in 1959) and Danny Akaka, returned WWII vets, organized the Dem wins, including Patsy Mink, a young lawyer. Hawaii did a recount and the Democrats won. Nixon and Congress did not 'decide' the vote: Hawaii did. Trump's attorneys have twisted the truth, just as he does. I hope Jack Smith picks up on this false information. Trump's attorneys said this on p. 31: "Furthermore,

the actions listed in the Indictment had been performed in 1800, 1824, 1876, and 1960, among others, without any suggestion they were criminal."

No former president claimed election fraud in Hawaii in 1960. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hawaii, historically, had the highest turnout for their first vote of any state. The Hawaiians were enormously proud of becoming a state. Many of the Japanese population (Nisei) had served in WW II and represented the first generation of their plantation families to attend university. They used the GI bill to go to law school and were impeccable about the way the elections were conducted. I am horrified that Trump is using Hawaii as an example to lie about them to further his lying lawsuit. I'm letting Ed Case know about this. When he sent his false "love and prayers" after the Lahaina fire, Native Hawaiians were stunned. When the Republican House and Senate members showed up to 'fact find' after Joe Biden visited to promise relief, the Hawaiians (all of them, not just Native Hawaiians) were furious. They told them to leave. That is very unusual for Hawaii - because they extend Aloha. I truly hope Jack Smith let's Judge Chutkan know about this lie.

I'm still reading Motions 3 and 4. Trump is a liar, liar pants on fire. And his attorneys can't write. They are obviously not checking the footnotes and records.

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Very interesting. I hadn't heard any of this except the claims about the event by Republicans. Thank you for taking the time to write this out; much appreciated. Will delve into it a bit.

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You are correct Fay but the Judicial branch interprets the Constitution-article three of that same document you are referring to . That is why judges and justices whether appointed or elected are so important. Roe was interpreted through the Fourh Amendment’s implicit right to privacy to be valid law. Then it was overturned because there is no implicit right to privacy.

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California has an express right of Privacy in our CA state Constitution. See, Article 1 section 7. Thank you Willie Brown. Ohio has a new &:direct state Constitutional protection for freedom & health care.

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But Jack Smith isn’t trying him for insurrection

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His charges surround the insurrection, depriving citizens of their right to vote - the insurrection was to stop the counting of votes lawfully cast and verified by the 50 State Governors. Obstructing the actions of Congress (2 separate counts) - again trying to stop the vote count, trying to defraud the US - telling the MAGA crowd the votes was "stolen" from him, that voting machines had been rigged, etc. Jack Smith is a very smart well experienced prosecutor. The indictments as world are all winnable, do not involve 1st Amendment rights for a very good reason. Trump's claims of immunity and executive privilege do not hold up against the "no one is above the law" accepted principle. Even if Trump appeals which he will, his own speech recorded on TV, justifiably invokes the 14th Amendment. No indictment or conviction is necessary and Trump and magats can lie all they want - the evidence is in plain view. See Joyce Vance's Substack column. She is a highly respected attorney with years of experience and her husband is a judge. I am not a lawyer, I just happen to read the Constitution almost daily.

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founding

Nope. The crime is against the constitution. Jerry, Listen to or read Judge Luttig as he explains in detail what the law requires.

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No he doesn’t. It mentions Act of Congress to reverse if invoked. Lawrence Tribe and Judge Luttig discussed it. “Section Three is self-executing, operating as an immediate disqualification from office, without the need for additional action by Congress. It can and should be enforced by every official, state or federal, who judges qualifications."

No person shall be a Senator or

Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. - Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, U.S. Constitution.

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From what I read, no, he doesn't.

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The disqualification includes giving aid or comfort to the enemy. There are no criminal statutes against giving aid or comfort. No elements of the crime. No case to file.

Also the amendment was originally added, and used successfully, without any criminal convictions having taken place.

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Al, I know all that. But reality and MAGA don't coexist in the same universe. A conviction might hit 'em upside the head hard enough to notice. Without that smack, we'll have a real insurrection.

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I hear you Jerry but, there is a real on- going insurrection NOW with the defunding of the central government set to expire. Happy Holidaze.

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Yeah, Brian, you're right. I'm hoping for a miracle. If the government shuts down and it's commitments become shaky, I expect my retirement funds will be fu**ed and I'll have to start raising chickens and goats to eat. At least, TX just voted in expanded rights to farm in the city, so we'll eat.

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It is the season for Miracles. PS: Professor Joyce Vance is an expert on raising chickens. Goats are super for clearing TX brush.

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Bryan! I am shocked! Mike Johnson said "Trust us." Do you mean we can't trust him? I am so shocked by this:))

I'm pasting my comments on Motion 2 of the re Motions Trump's attorneys filed Monday. Would you please take a look at Motion 2, pp 29-31 to see if I am correct that they are misusing Hawaii as an example for changing the votes of electors? Trump's attorneys claim that Hawaii set a precedent in 1960 when they submitted two slates of electors. But Hawaii had a recount and Kennedy won.

Here is what I spotted:

On Motion 2, Trump's attorneys made a false claim on p. 29:

Trump's attorneys said: see also 146 CONG. REC.

E2180 (daily ed. Dec. 13, 2000) (statement of Rep. Mink) (“Based on the earlier certified results

[in Hawaii in 1960], the Republican electors met and cast their three votes for Nixon. The Democratic electors also met and cast their votes for Kennedy even though they did not have a certificate of election from the State.”) (emphasis added).

What really happened is this and I am hoping Jack Smith spots this: Hawaii had a RECOUNT and Kennedy, a Democrat overturned an initial result favoring Vice President Richard Nixon, a Republican. The result was considered an upset, as Nixon had been thought likely to win the state's electoral votes.

They repeated this on page 30. "And in 1960, Vice President Nixon—himself a candidate—decided which competing slate of electors to accept from Hawaii." That is not true: Hawaii became a state in 1959. It had been Republican run by the Big Five and had a Republican appointed governor. The assumption was that Hawaii would go Republican. It did not. The young democrats (including Dan Inouye (Hawaii's first representative, elected in 1959) and Danny Akaka, returned WWII vets, organized the Dem wins, including Patsy Mink, a young lawyer. Hawaii did a recount and the Democrats won. Nixon and Congress did not 'decide' the vote: Hawaii did. Trump's attorneys have twisted the truth, just as he does. I hope Jack Smith picks up on this false information.

Trump's attorneys said this on p. 31: "Furthermore, the actions listed in the Indictment had been performed in 1800, 1824, 1876, and 1960, among others, without any suggestion they were criminal."

No former president claimed election fraud in Hawaii in 1960 (as Trump did in 2020). Nothing could be further from the truth. Nixon was a Vice-president. When Hawaii had a recount, Kennedy had won.

Have Trump's attorneys misreported the record in Motion 2?

TY

Valere

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Question is: is this exclusively a tRump aspiration, or is "Project 2025" a blueprint for ANY Repub who may be elected president, whether in 2024 or beyond? I mean, isn't it folly to believe that if somehow tRump would disappear before or lose in 2024, tRumpism/MAGA disappears with him? What you've outlined here, and what WaPo and the Times have reported is simply the game plan of a powerful minority, funded by - amongst others - SV billionaire "libertarians", wealthy PE principals, industrialists, and that ilk, a minority virulently set against an evolving majority of Americans who have no interest in what these Republicans are selling, nor in the "values" of the far-right religious extremists, anti-abortionists, self-styled "patriotic" militias, et al who compromise the public face and shock troops of their minoritarian movement.

Frankly, "Project 2025" is sort of a latter-day "Mein Kampf", a list of grievances and a plan of attack on how to seize power, and keep it as a means to reorder society in the image of a white, "christian", hyper-capitalist State, theoretically in perpetuity. This action plan is designed to outlive tRump, who is merely a convenient vehicle and rabble-rousing figurehead behind whom the groundwork will be laid over four years for total control as outlined in "Project 2025".

So, yes, this movement can be forestalled, or even defeated, if - and ONLY if - we in the majority come out in numbers and enthusiasm as we have seen in the 2020/2022/2023 elections, and turn away these authoritarians and Know-Nothings in November, 2024, while we still have the opportunity to do so in a democratic fashion, full stop.

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Indeed, Trump is a useful idiot for project 2025.

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Thank you Lance, for bringing this up. As soon as I heard about the "2025 project", I knew it wasn't just trump who would use it. In my opinion, _any_ Republican who can get elected will use it. They may not say so at this point, or even truly want to use it, but the pressure will come from said billionaires that if they do not toe the line, they will lose the "base", so they will have to go along. And frankly, I think most of them would be just fine with that. They _all_ know that their party is a big loser, and that will only get worse. If they want to maintain power, this is how they will do it. It's terrifying stuff.

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"...who compromise..." - lack of an editing option in the App is very frustrating..."compromise" of course should be "comprise".

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It's pretty clear from his utterances that Vivek Ramaswamy has the same authoritarian desires that Defendant Trump has. He vows to abolish tne Department of Education on day one, and "do away with the administrative state."

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This could not be more serious and perhaps the most pressing issue ever in the United States and the world. Not only would Trump dismantling the United States but the world. He is a sycophant to Putin and is driving the US to support Putins intentions. With an exceptional few there is no honor in the GOP. They have dishonored their oath to preserve , protect and defend the constitution. We are not in an election cycle, we are in a war!

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Why doesn't anyone in media call this person what he is? A malignant narcissistic psychopath. Engoron and Chutkan are not willing to stand up to him and have refused to do to him what anyone else would experience. The boot licking and cowardly Judge Cannon is merely a puppet. If these people are not stepping into this psychopath with the full weight of the law and judicial system behind them they are disheartening and demotivating average American citizens. Being informed of this person's insanity and those enabling him is very important. And more important are the actions of our LE and judicial system putting the full weight of the system on this person not treating him with repeated and never ending "exceptions" in avoidance of what we all see he is trying to do. It is utterly ridiculous Smith should have to file a motion telling the judge they are being manipulated by this person. It is obvious even to a tween what this person is doing. This person's behavior in court on Monday was never curtailed or punished. This IS the message being sent to the average American. This person gets to be totally abusive and no one does anything to stop him.

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It’s not the two judges you mentioned before Cannon. Engoron has practically slapped The Don across his face. Chutkan is only giving him a mere thread to hang onto. Please cut them some slack. This is the first time a president has been held accountable for acts against one’s country and for fraud. Engoron fined Trump $15k and Chutkin moved the trial date up. Cannon, on the other hand, may be replaced if she continues to act like she’s Trump’s emissary. Personally, I wish Smith would do that but a new judge might have to take a lot of time catching up on all of the evidence, motions, etc. The person we should all be angry with is Merrick Garland. I really don’t know why it took him so long to go after this crook!

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Marlene: The law requires steps need to be taken before the government can take action. In Trump's case, the Pentagon and other departments holding chain of custody cards for Top Secret documents knew they were in Trump's possession at the White House, they were not returned when they requested them when he left office in January 2021, and they began making official requests for them. Trump proceeded to claim that he had them under 'executive privilege.' Instead of showing up at Mara Larga guns a-blazing, Merrick Garland proceeded to follow the steps outlined by the statutes covering executive privilege. The documents needed to be returned to the National Archives, but Merrick Garland could not direct the FBI to search Mara Largo until Trump was given proper notice by the National Archives and the sitting president at the White House (Biden). The National Archives communicated with Trump throughout 2021 in an attempt to gain the missing Top Secret documents. The Pentagon and other agencies were deeply troubled that the former president had left Washington DC without returning the Top Secret documents. After spending an entire year attempting to gain the Top Secret documents, the National Archives received 15 boxes in January 2022 (but that still did not allow Merrick Garland to move ahead to search Mara Largo because the then-president (Biden) needed to show they needed the Top Secret documents to run the government. And the DOJ needed to review them to conduct their criminal investigation. Trump knew the DOJ was conducting a criminal investigation and stalled returning the documents. The Acting Director of the National Archives received 15 boxes of Top Secret documents in January 2022, with a request from Trump's attorney, Evan Corchoran, not to inform the FBI about these boxes of classified documents because of 'Executive Privilege'! The National Archives had to follow the US statute that covered Executive Privilege, and that included consulting with President Biden. President Biden told the Acting Director of the National Archives the decision was in her hands to make. At the end of April 2022, she extended Trump's request for a week to give him time to return the documents to her. He refused to do so. The Archivist, gave Trump and his attorney Evan Corchoran notice in a letter on May 10, 2022, that her decision was that Trump did not have Executive Privilege to keep the documents and that his keeping them prevented the DOJ to perform their review. The DOJ and the FBI knew exactly what documents were in the boxes Trump was holding at Mara Largo because the chain of custody cards showed they were not returned to their proper safes. So Trump knew for 17 months that the DOJ and FBI wanted the Top Secret documents to review. And he played his shell game with them - taking them to New Jersey on his private plane, showing some of them to authors writing memoirs, etc. Only when he knew the FBI was going to visit Mara Largo did he return them: and then he asked his attorney if it 'wouldn't be better to make some of them go missing' (wink wink nod nod). Instead of making them go missing, Evan Corchoran had his office partner deliver the boxes to the DOJ and Evan went to the DOJ to tell them about the wink wink nod nod event. And he had been keeping copious notes. Even Corchoran could do this because he knew something illegal was going on: and that voided the attorney-client privilege he had with Trump. That is also why the other office attorney did the hand-off of the Top Secret documents to the DOJ. So because we have laws in this country that say someone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, Merrick Garland had to have the DOJ conduct the review; then he had to order the FBI to go to Mara Largo to search for the still yet MISSING documents. Some Top Secret documents were/are allegedly missing. As soon as that was done in November 2022, he assigned Jack Smith to the case. As Brian Sean McKown states below, Jack Smith was prosecuting Thaci at The Hague (the Trump friend who was the former president of Kosovo who had been arrested while leaving Kosovo to visit Trump at the White House and instead of visiting Trump, Thaci went to jail at The Hague - where he is still being held/tried for war crimes). Thaci (a true dictator) has been charged with war crimes, including harvesting and selling body parts of innocent civilians who opposed him politically. Trump is not able to get along with leaders of democracies, but he has stated publicly that he "gets along with dictators." In the meantime, if there is blame to be spread for the DOJ (i.e. Merrick Garland) moving slowly, please harken back to our statutes that protect one as being innocent until being found guilty in a court of law. To find one guilty, the steps need taken, i's need dotted, t's need crossed. As Merrick Garland did all of this, including having the FBI raid Mara Largo, the case was being built for Jack Smith. And that is why Jack Smith asked every American to read the indictments on the documents case and the four indictments on the theft of our votes. The documents indictment is 37 felony counts. It details how Trump concealed the documents; including how Walt Nuata asked Melania if she had spoken to 'POTUS' (former president Trum) about the documents going on the plane, and her response was 'there is no room for the boxes because I have my luggage on the plane.' (That's in the documents indictement). Joyce has told us that for the DOJ to make charges, they need to have at least 95% certainty of conviction. How high do you think Jack Smith raised this bar to be certain of conviction? He had a team and a case ready by the time he arrived from The Hague. He formed a Grand Jury and proceeded with his cases. The first thing we want to do when things do not go the way we wish is to place blame. Joyce told us as well that 'everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.' That's to ensure that we watch the steps proceed to their conclusion. The trick to watching is to have patience. That's the hard part when we have already made our conclusions.

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Valerie — Thank you SO much for this summary. I hope everyone on Joyce’s Substack reads it, then reads it again. It’s one of the best that I’ve read, by far.

That said, like you, I’m one of the folks who followed everything that roll out regarding the documents fiasco, took note of the steps taken (it’s definitely a process), and I also understand that many, many things happen in the background that we are not privy to. The new thing that I learned was about Thaci & his relationship to Trump. That was a surprise...thx for adding that (I just read a complete article in WaPo). What’s not covered enough is the timing of Trump’s campaign announcement (Nov 15, 2022). Related to ‘normal’ times, it was far, far too early for him to announce a 2024 presidential campaign. But, he did that thinking it (the campaign) would protect him. He got nervous as he saw them getting closer & closer to nailing him. And, then Garland appointed Jack Smith, Nov 18, 2022. No doubt, Merrick & Jack were in discussions well before that date.

Regarding the indictments: I read them all. As Joyce has mentioned, everyone should read them. ‘Speaking indictments’ are very, very detailed and read like you’re watching a movie. Very easy to read.

Anyway, even though many don’t like the speed at which all of the indictments came about (4 of them, 91 felony counts!), here we are. And, per all the fantastic legal analysts (YAY, Joyce! 🙌🏼), this all happened quickly... per the law, the steps, the process. One or two of the cases may bump up against the Nov election, but we’ll see.

In the meantime, the guy who insists he did nothing wrong continues to thwart the legal process, promote the Big Lie, hoping to get back to the WH. We can’t let that happen.

Thanks, again, Valerie, for that great summary. I hope it opened a few eyes. 👊🏽👋🏼

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Hi Wineaux, I love your name! Is it pronounced Wino? Or an actual last name? I'm a teetotaler, and not so aware. My friends and I stopped drinking many years ago when we started bringing our wine to meetings in the cardboard box things because they were easier to carry. We decided we were probably either in trouble or headed there. That's been a while.

Trump's announcement followed the August 8, 2022 raid on Mara Largo. He knew the DOJ and FBI would discover he had not returned all of the classified documents in his possession. He also knew Evan Corcoran, his attorney, who had handed the classified documents over to the DOJ and FBI, had met with the DOJ and because Corcoran's attorney client privilege was removed, would testify against him. So his Plan A was to run for president in 2024. The raid on Mara Largo was no surprise to Trump. He pretended to the nation that he was 'shocked' but he knew the drill: he had received an official letter from the Acting Director of the National Archives (May 10, 2022) letting him know that she was informing the DOJ and FBI that she was authorizing them to receive and review the documents. The National Archives had pursued Trump for 20 months, from January 2021 to recover the Top Secret and other classified documents in his possession. There were a number of steps that had to happen prior to the August 8, 2022 FBI raid, and Merrick Garland coordinated all of these with the National Archives. One of the steps was that Biden had to inform the Acting Director of the National Archives that he needed the documents to run the country. Everybody up and down and across agencies, who had given the TS documents to Trump in the first place were all aware that he had them. There are chain of custody cards for all of the documents that remain in safes when the documents are removed. So if a general in the Pentagon requested a document for a meeting in the command center, it was signed out. When it was returned to its home safe, the card reflected that - by whom, the date and time. That is how they knew exactly what Trump had and did not return: the cards showed the documents had been delivered to Trump. And this involved several agencies. Trump may not have realized when he requested documents that many folks were involved in the transfer: they were simply placed on his desk, someone else signed for them, the chain of custody card sans document went to its home safe. So everyone was on high alert, they were extremely nervous about Trump having the documents and they had to go through legal steps outlined in statutes to get them back (and for 20 months, Trump claimed executive privilege). Garland couldn't simply drive a tank through the gates of Mara Largo and retrieve the documents at gun-point. Trump claimed (through Evan Corcoran) in response to the many requests from the National Archives, that he had executive privilege. Finally, Biden instructed the acting director of the National Archives that the exec privilege decision was hers to make; but he needed the documents to run the US government. Note: Merrick Garland could not simply go to Mara Larga and crash the gates as he could by subpoena with another citizen: because citizens cannot claim executive privilege. So when folks complain about Merrick Garland taking too much time, the paper trail is plain: he followed up on every move by Trump. Biden's counsel wrote to the Acting Director of the National Archives on May 10, 2022 telling her that he needed the documents. There is a letter dated 5-10-2022 from the Acting Director of the National Archives to Trump's attorney, Evan Corcoran informing him that Trump did not have Executive Privilege, that she had given him an extension of time to return the documents, and that his game was up. You can google and find both of those letters. She informed Trump she was notifying the DOJ and the FBI to give them access to the missing documents. She notified Trump that she had coordinated with the DOJ. Trump allegedly left for his golf course with some of the documents. Trump's attorney Evan Corcoran met with the DOJ and FBI at Mara Largo on June 3, 2022 and handed them 38 files. This may or may not have been all of the missing records. (If files are missing, we may have another indictment or one will be updated, but those i's will be dotted and t's crossed by Jack Smith. [Evan Corcoran took extensive notes on his interactions with Trump, and when he was subpoenaed to speak with the DOJ, he told them his take on Trump's behavior. Corcoran's attorney client privilege was lifted because a crime was allegedly committed. He will testify against Trump]. Once those records were in the hands of the DOJ to review with the FBI to determine what they had and what was missing they moved to raid Mara Largo on August 8, 2022. So obviously some were missing. This was 20 months after the National Archives had initially requested the Top Secret records. Trump was in New Jersey. He knew the FBI raid was imminent. He had sent Walt Nuata on an unscheduled trip from New Jersey to Mara Larga, and we are wondering if Walt hand-carried some of the documents back to the bathroom? So when Merrick Garland appointed Jack Smith on November 18, 2022, he had built a case with a complete chain of custody trail of classified documents, including videos of the boxes being moved. I don't know in the waterbed that is Washington DC how soon after Merrick Garland conjured to have Jack Smith become special counsel that Trump got wind of it. But he started 'announcing' several weeks before his official November 15, 2022 official announcement date - when he campaigned for midterm elections and gave support to candidates. So he knew the DOJ and FBI had evidence against him on the missing documents and his only shot at staying out of prison for life was to become president and pardon himself. We first had almost two years of stalling by Trump - and now he is up to it again through Cannon.

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Hi, again, Valere! I've been rereading comments & noticed that I had forgotten to respond to your query re how to pronounce Wineaux. Yes, just like 'wino'...the -eaux- has same sound as in Bordeaux. Ta-da! 😃 Cheers! 🍷

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I need a glass and I don't even drink. I had wine 40 years ago and loved it...but I'm a teetotaler for health:) (congentinal kidney issue...) My spree of dancing on the tables and kissing all the cowboys only lasted about a year. I'm fine actually, but do not have sugar or alcohol. But I'm having matcha tea celebrating our victory with E. Jean. So cheers!!

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Valere, I have picked my jaw off of the floor a couple of times now. I admit I knew some things but many I did not and I want to thank you for correcting me.

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Marlene, Everything I write (and rewrite) has been published - and I fact check through factcheck.org (Annenberg Public Policy Center). Trump has lied throughout the entire investigation and indictment process. This has never been one of taking away his First Amendment Rights. Jack Smith said right in the indictment for vote stealing: "Go ahead and continue saying anything you wish. This is not about your First Amendment rights." And the document thefts: Trump was notified and pursued for 20 months until the FBI had to search Mara Largo (for our national security). Some documents may still be missing; however, even reporting that would be a security breach. I'm waiting for more indictments.

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Valere....sorry for misspelling your name. 🫣 I should have kept my eye on autocorrect . 😳

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founding

If we start acting like them and the many versions of them (the fascists) then we join them. We hold to a higher standard, the law, and where the law is flawed we change it, legally. That puts us at a disadvantage to the 'bully' with lots of money, at times.

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Exactly. I'm looking for the DOJ to start indicting some of the 'lots of money bullies' (you mention above) very soon. And those bullies are not going to jail. They will spill everything they know and their payees will be indicted: congress people, mostly Republicans. But the mega donors will not go to jail or wear an ankle bracelet. They will do what the Mafia calls 'rat' on the others.

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Nov 9, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023

Valere, thank you for explaining in great detail about why this document investigation is taking so long. Isn’t Judge Cannon purposely slow walking this? Can she just do this?

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Helen, yes she can. For now. Please read one of the members of this sub stack Ira Tyler. comments. Jack Smith is not able to file a motion against her for this yet. If she slow walks through to the end, there will be an appeal and then these kinds of issues can be added to the appeal. But for now, she hasn’t done anything so egregious that a Motion can be filed. Thank you for rewriting. Please copy Joyce’s article and send it in an email to all your email addresses. It’s important to get this out on the grass roots level. Valere💙

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Helen, Could you please rewrite this response? I am not sure about what you said: "....sleeping wing Jack Smith down now?"

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Sorry. I rewrote the comment

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Thank you Helen. I responded to your reply above.

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Jack Smith wea not fully available until all matters were wrapped up putting away an international war criminal.at The Hague Merrick got Jack.

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Agree about Garland. $15k is what this guy spends on dinner. It's meaningless. The trial date will be moved back out by appeals. His behavior on Monday in court w absolutely no consequences is where this situation is in reality.

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Sabrina, Please read the indictments. Also, the reason Trump was not curtailed in court was because it is a bench trial. The judge has ruled that there is fraud. Judge Engoron will take away Trump's certificates to do business. Judge Engoron tried to curtail him but Trump's attorneys decided to allow him to yap at will. After the break, the judge came back and said: "Go ahead and attack me. So Trump rambled on - but at one point, when he had felt safe enough, he admitted that 'everyone was responsible for the financial reports.' 'Everyone' would be Trump, Don Jr. and Eric. This is all the judge needed. This portion of the court proceeding is to determine how much of the $250 Million requested by the State of New York should be awarded. What you are requesting is that Engoron 'stand up to him' but he already has found him guilty of fraud. He would only have to shut him up should there be a jury (there is not - the judge will decide everything). He is being very careful to not make mistakes that could allow Trump to win on appeal. So far as Smith filing a motion with Chutkan: Joyce and attorneys on this site have stated ad nauseum that there are no grounds to file a motion to Judge Chutkan. Trump's attorneys are making normal motions to delay. Judge Cannon is concerning and as soon as Smith is able (when he does something that warrants a motion, Smith will file one.

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Sorry: Very unfair to Engoron and Chutkan! Our democracy has rules that courts must follow and they both are doing so! He will be dealt with appropriately at the proper time and with proper adherence to the courts’ fairness and the Rule of Law.

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founding

I hope we have the time, Ira.

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