I cried when I heard this news. 14 years old!! A child!! His parents should have gotten him psychological help after he made violent threats last year that were important enough to bring in the FBI. Parents should be held accountable for neglecting their children’s needs resulting in mental health crises that erupt in violence. This 14 year old was most assuredly a deeply wounded and mentally ill child. He is guilty of course but so are his parents and so are the disgusting money grubbers who profit off gun sales. They should be charged as accessories after the fact. It’s just unconscionable.
Does anyone know who to contact in eastern Pennsylvania to work with on election day? I live in CT and I’m not needed here. Everyone should head to a battleground state.
But the price for too many is the ones that are killed or injured, their families and all those that have to live with the horror of it happening so near or right in front of them. IT'S GOT TO STOP, vote those that support more and more guns, they are what kill in the hands of too many sick people.
I have no law studies in my past, but even a 4th grader could understand the reading of the 2nd amendment that DOES NOT give the general public the right to bear arms. It does give a “…well regulated militia…” the right to bear arms. And if one wishes to apply an originalist thinking to this, militias in the 18th century were organized state defense guards formed to protect against a central federal authority and at the time, that authority was the British crown.
In the 1970s, the board of the NRA, a sportsman’s club was take over by gun industry zealots who turned it into a pure lobby group for the gun industry. And when you repeat a lie over and over again as Joseph Goebbels knew so well, the lie becomes truth. The NRA has done its damage. They don’t need to exist anymore as the corrupt org it became.
I was having a non confrontational chat with a local police officer a short while back about guns and what he thought about possession. His curt response was, “It’s our second amendment rights.” Then I mentioned how two police officers had recently been killed in an ambush in Bristol, Connecticut. His response was unremarkable and I don’t recall it. But there you have it. The public does not have a right to own weapons. But even I stated further down that if Trump were to win that I would for the first time in my life arm myself for the coming civil war. And that’s what the gun industry wants; even people like me to patronize their services. I picketed in front of Hoffman’s Guns last year. The general manager came out for a talk. He suggested it could be a little dangerous picketing them to which I replied, “But I thought only the good guys have guns” which is scrawled on their building. I soon left because we know that statement is erroneous. And the big stampede to buy guns is, without discussion, in the tradition of white arming to suppress Black populations.
Bill I agree with what you are saying. However, Popular Information makes a case that Trump does well on campaigning as the crime reducing candidate because of the way that crime is reported in local news contributes to people's concerns about crime. https://popular.info/p/why-trumps-spurious-attacks-on-crime
Someone also pointed out that these local news stations are increasingly owned by Sinclair and Fox and other right wing groups. A problem that needs to be addressed in our country. The press, SCOTUS and others need to be addressed just as much as abortion rights.
In response to your inquiry about working on election day, I suggest contacting your local board of elections. They probably need poll workers. I am a poll worker in MD and the county Bd. of elections set me up at a local polling place. And they train AND pay.
The father told the FBI he had “hunting guns” that were “secured.” How is an AR15 a hunting gun? I have argued this was gun owners who insist it is. That’s ridiculous bordering on obscene.
We could prohibit the sale of ALL guns tomorrow and we’d still have a gun problem in this country 100 years from now. Why? Because America is awash in guns. But for God’s sake, we could start somewhere - like a ban on sale or possession of military grade semi automatic long guns. Every long hard journey begins with that first step.
Or ammunition. You can buy the gun, but if you can’t load it with the proper ammo, you might as well use it for a tomato stake. Laws prohibiting where the AR-15 ammunition can be sold, like gun ranges and used only at the range.
It’s not perfect by any means. But it’s a start on gun control without trying to control gun sales.
Law abiding citizens who like to own an AR-15 know it’s not a weapon used for home defense. It’s designed to kill as many people as possible. That’s its sole purpose. Not hunting.
A secure range is a perfect place to shoot without harming people. Split the gun dealers from ammunition dealers. Require an ammunition purchasing license and now there’s a paper trail. No purchased AR-15 ammunition can leave the range, but it can be stored there. With other storage options other than home, it has lucrative possibilities. Gun experts on hand for cleaning and servicing the weapons gun owners can appreciate. No membership necessary. I see this as a lucrative business opportunity. These weapons aren’t cheap nor is the ammunition but as we’re all taught in hunter safety courses around the country, Safety, Safety, Safety comes first. Can’t infringe on gun owner rights? Try something different. Plus create a safer place for AR-15 regulation usage.
All other guns used for home protection, hunting, sports events, gun collecting, can all be secured in homes with minimum ammunition purchase requirements.
Or load your own, cost effective and keeps you busy.
If we can regulate cigarettes, we can regulate ammunition sales. Get creative. We can do more without taking guns away or interfering with sales or ownership.
If these weapons aren’t instantly available to someone who is in crisis, it will save lives.
We must think! Be creative because this must not be permitted to continue.
Your idea has some merit, but there is absolutely NO REASON a regular person needs an AR-15. It’s intended for combat, to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. What percentage of our population join the military? How many of the military will be in combat and need such weapons? 1-2%? Sacrificing our children on the altar of gun companies’ profits is obscenely reprehensible.
Jenn As a Foreign Service Officer, I operated with a M-16 (predecessor to the AR-15) in rebel-infiltrated provinces during the 1964 Congolese foreign hostage crisis.
The M-16 was designed to kill. I could shoot a clip of 22 bullets in seconds. There is absolutely no reason why an American civilian should have access to such a killer weapon or ammo packets that make other guns automatic.
I taught the Constitution for two decades. A close reading of the 2nd Amendment clearly does NOT justify condoning such weapons for American civilians.
In 1791 thERE were state militias and only a few hundred soldiers in the American Army. The idea of grabbing a musket to protect your town was a commonplace concept back then. Today? PSHAW!
Yes, yes, yes. This is what I've been saying for years, regulate the sale of ammunition. If you want a military style gun, fine, have it but you can't get any ammunition for it. It seems I remember reading about a European country (Switzerland?) where ammunition was regulated. And your idea of those weapons being used at a shooting range is also a good one. I am not anti-gun but I am anti-slaughtering our children.
People will always find, or make, ammo. The internet is also full of places to buy ghost guns. The current interpretation of the 2nd Amendment opened Pandora's box.
Yes! The conservative Right Wing in this country has patiently used and is still using the “inch by inch” tactical strategy to dismantle all of our cultural norms and interpersonal agreements that make this and any functioning democracy work well. We are far behind their lead in most every case. As in basketball, you miss every shot you decide not to take. There’s no time like the present to begin mounting a staunch counterinsurgency, but one based squarely in a more rational rule of law.
The conservative right, Christofascists who own most of the guns in this country and are now the formidable adversary directing our politico-social battleground believe as a matter of faith that they are a grassroots militia empowered by whatever higher power suits their fancy to defend their delusional vision of American Democracy with the guns that kill so many innocents every day. From this source cauldron their perceived 2nd Amendment rights flow as water from a firehouse. They and their rancid vision of America is the unnaturally fertile ground from which our “gun problem” luxuriates.
Too many guns. And get this: there are estimated some 400 million plus guns in the US. If 50,000 firearms were to be destroyed EVERY DAY, and no new ones added, it would take about 22 years to be rid of them.
Kyle Rittenhouse's rifle was purchased for him by a relative who told him he couldn't have it until he turned 18. His cousin got ahold of the gun and gave it to Rittenhouse, who killed 2 people with it hours later.
IMHO, at the first indication of this boy's violent obsessions, he should have been removed from school, period! We need firmness in every aspect of managing this national tragedy. He should have remained under parental supervision while doing home studies. Then, all parties could reconcile with the seriousness of threats to schools, students, and teachers.
I don’t want to lay all of mine blame on the parents without knowing more. Yes, they needed to prevent access to firearms. Also, they should have gotten him extensive mental health treatment. I hope they tried, but I know that finding treatment, and having insurance that will pay for it at the level that it is needed can be very difficult. Yes, the parents have a responsibility, but did they try and society put up roadblocks? It’s another preventable tragedy with guns, and I suspect the parents aren’t the only ones deserving blame.
Well if they knew their child was sick and couldn't afford the treatment it's their responsibility to eliminate his ability to get his hands on the guns. No unsupervised access????????? Guess he found a way around that.
Hi Sally. This is what I think about this tragedy. The truth is that Americans value the right to own guns over the right of children and people to life, liberty and security of the person. Until Americans eliminate or modify the second amendment, the slaughter of children and people will continue. You will continue to cry at the deaths and issue the meaningless 'our hearts and minds go out to the families' statements. Until you take a stand against access to guns, you are complicit in the gun violence that tarnishes America. I write this with respect and hope for a different America.
We should not seek to eliminate the Second Amendment. We should seek to illuminate its true meaning and seek to have it applied as the Founders and Framers intended. Too many judges (especially the so-called originalists on SCOTUS) pretend (or maybe even actually believe) that the Second Amendment is all about guns merely because it says "arms."
True originalists would think like the originals did--like the people who founded this nation and framed our Constitution. The Second Amendment's scope is both far greater and far more limited that some SCOTUS "originalist" justices pretend to believe. They actually know that the Second Amendment doesn't pertain necessarily or even primarily to guns or to taking lives. They know that it pertains primarily and fundamentally to defense and preservation. They know it pertains primarily to saving lives. See, e.g., https://blackcollarcrime.substack.com/p/the-dobbs-fraud-by-scotuss-fake-originalists-f5a?r=30ufvh
As a result, the Second Amendment clearly is pro choice (and it is controlling legal authority) and (contrary to the pretenses of the "originalists" on SCOTUS) it clearly establishes each woman's constitutional right to choose to terminate a pregnancy for the purpose of protecting her own life or safety.
Hi Sally. My apologies to you. I should have used the word we, not you. I did not intend to criticize you. Your points are an important piece of the answer. The bottom line for me is political courage is necessary to stop gun violence.
I agree that it is tragic, and until we change our Supreme Court ,we are forced to accept this level of violence in the USA. This is the reason my child is going to university in Germany, where they have guns too, but they have more serious gun laws. No one under 25 is getting a gun without going through a psychological evaluation. Each gun owner needs liability insurance of at least 1.1 million €. You need training and a permit. You have to lock up your guns and the police can show up to check on this unannounced. Still there is violence. It is creating a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment. Germany is not discussing enacting stricter gun laws, they are discussing enacting stricter knife laws. I am not saying that people with knives cannot kill, they can, but really a knife vs an AR-15 is apples and bananas. Just totally different in the realm of damage they can do. No sniper knifers. Still, this killing, killing, killing in the USA, that many Americans have found an acceptable part of society, is what cause me to mostly live in the EU. When I am in the USA, I feel a constant awareness of the fact that not only do people have guns, but we were not prepared enough to prevent the Supreme Court that we currently have, which is the biggest reason we cannot get reasonable gun laws enacted. I must add that in Germany most people have personal liability insurance. It is what you use when you have ridden your bike and nicked someone's car, or your first grade threw a ball at a tree and it bounced off, hit a car, and broke the window. It is going to kick in if you did not intentionally commit the act.
I do not feel free in a country where I have to constantly worry about being shot. In my community in Chicago, which is a university community, an 18-year old with an AR-15, shot and killed a University student from China, who would not relinquish his laptop 2 years ago. A friend of a friend is a surgeon living on that block and he ran out to try to help the boy, and told my friend he had never seen so much blood in his life. Then, during the pandemic, my daughter was out walking with a friend, and when she came home, we learned that a man with a gun, who was driving around from one end of the city to another, shot and killed a graduate student who had just finished his PhD, also from China right were she and her friend had been walking around that time. He also killed a woman who was the door-person of a luxury building nearby, and a mom and her daughter who were in a car near him.
I looked at Chicago, my US city to compare, and there I saw that on July 4, 2023 they don't even have Chicago listed, where 73 were shot, 11 fatally, because it was over the weekend, and they were not all in one place, but these are still a lot of shootings, or according to another report 109 shot, 19 fatally over the weekend. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023/7/3/23781855/chicago-shootings-fourth-of-july-weekend-2023
or according to another report 109 shot, 19 fatally over the weekend.
Over the years I have kept track of the Global Peace index, and in the past few years we went down the list from 129, to now 132. Scroll down to page 9 and see.
Notice that there are a lot of poor African countries considered safer than ours. This is ironic because we see that being the wealthiest nation on earth cannot buy us safety. I see the job of our nation as getting control of the Supreme Court so that it serves the people, not their wealthy benefactors. Then, we need to seriously go after gun control. It is a monumental task. We are endangered from the proliferation of guns, and these lone shooters are heated up by on line propaganda, often being White Supremacist in nature. This film AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, about violence on January 6, is eye opening and ties into the general danger we are in because of right wing policies that help them to be armed to the teeth. https://youtu.be/D2uwOZhqGS0?si=RA_7OzYUkvqxx6pr
And therein is one of the issues. If the child is deeply wounded at the age of 14 it starts at home and the parents are the wounders. Probably also deeply wounded themselves. Sigh. But yes, we should absolutely hold parents responsible.
Many 14 yo's are wounded just by being here in a country that wounds children by being so violent that kids have to practice active shooter drills. Many 14 yo males are confused by hormones and 14 yo girls. A 14 yo is not an adult and should not be tried as one.
I had a very confused 14 yo son who never had gun toys, never had a beating, was never cursed nor denigrated, was in treatment off and on for years, and has grown to be a fine contributor to society, a fine employee, and a fine father... and an AR15 owner, much to my chagrin.
You know very little about this child or his parents yet. Hold off on your judgment.
EXCERPT>>The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.
Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, >>other risk factors, >>such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization.
Columbia Mass Murder Database
Findings from the Columbia database help dispel the myth that having a severe psychiatric illness is predictive of who will perpetrate mass murder......
Why does the public erroneously link mental illness with mass shootings and with violence in general?
A lot of people who aren’t experts in mental illness tend to equate bad behavior, and often immorality, with mental illness. These are a false equivalence. I think it's incumbent on us, especially when we're talking about something as horrible as mass shootings, to make sure other people understand that all bad behavior, and certainly not evil and pure psychopathy, is not the same as mental illness........
The major findings from our database are that the vast majority of mass shootings and mass murder are committed by people without mental illness, and certainly not psychotic illness, and when a person with severe mental illness commits a mass murder, they’re much less likely to use firearms than other methods, such as arson or knives.
Each awful shooting must be understood in light of its own circumstances. However, they all occur in an environment of weak regulation exploited by the gun industry to promote record gun sales. The Supreme Court bears responsibility for that weak regulation, having wrenched open Pandora's box with its decision on the Second Amendment in Heller and following jurisprudence. Three members of the Heller bench remain on the Court: Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Thomas and Justice Alito. These three just keep on giving. Roberts authored the majority opinion in Trump v. United States. Alito authored the majority opinion in Dobbs. Thomas demeans the Court by his presence.
Thank you professor. I think this is the only time that I used the word hate. I hate guns. We don’t need them. so many tragedies so many senseless senseless acts of violence. Peace of love everybody.
If ever there was a case of a slowly boiled frog, it is the United States and guns. Degree by degree, arms have evolved from single shot pistols and muskets which took a minute to reload, to the 6-chamber revolver of the Civil War era, to the automatic and semi-automatic weapon of today with a magazine shooting 50 rounds without reloading. Get 10 of them and you can shoot 600 people from the top floor of a Las Vegas hotel, lickety split.
I agree with you 100%. I hate guns, too. Hearing over and over that the Second Amendment says everybody should be armed with as many kinds of weapons as they want makes me nauseous, and of course, scared just thinking about.
We shouldn't have to worry about shopping at a mall, going to a concert, going to church, or even shopping at a grocery store or Wal-Mart in case there's an armed person there who has nefarious plans. School kids, teachers, and staff should NOT have to be constantly afraid that they could be victims of an active shooter.
I doubt anyone can forget the young man who slaughtered his fellow students at Columbine High School. It seems that since then, this is happening more and more each year. Not sure what the statistics are, but it would be interesting to know whether most of these shootings are happening more often in states with very minimal gun laws, or in those with laws made to protect citizens no matter WHERE they happen to be at any given minute.
Finally, I highly recommend a publication from the Department of Homeland Security called "Active Shooter - How to Respond." Reading --- and remembering --- the information everything in this 13-page booklet could save many lives. Here's the link: https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
[Be advised that I'm not very computer-literate when it comes to posting links, so hopefully, this works.]
Is there any limit to the second amendment? Can I own a grenade launcher? A flame thrower? How about a nuke in a suitcase? Is that protected under the second amendment? The whole thing is bat crap crazy!
David, your questions made me smile a bit, even though they are serious and need to be given consideration. Actually, I had to laugh to keep from crying, because there's no way to know what people have with them at any given time, or what they left behind in the trunks of their cars.
We shouldn't have to live in fear that ANYTHING could happen anywhere and anytime. Unfortunately, as we learned yesterday, no place is safe. Yes, it has become "bad crap crazy" (LOVE that term, BTW) and I believe that unless the Democrats win in November, things will become unbelievably worse. That scares the h*ll out of me.
As long as the NRA generously supports these repulsive politicians, these very people who were voted in office will continue to claim that the Second Amendment allows carte blanche to kill any living being, whether two-legged, four-legged, without any appendages (like amoebas, worms, slugs, etc.), or creatures with fins who live under water.
Some of our illustrious individuals will go a step further by insisting that the Framers wanted to make sure that "the militia" would be able to have at their disposal every kind of weapon available at that time in history, and anything that would or could be invented even hundreds of years later ...... just in case there might be a need for everyone to have their own arsenals. Always thinking ahead, those Framers were very worried that someday, due to the ever-increasing obsession over the RIGHT to bear arms, many private armorers, local gun shops, "unofficial" gun dealers, and sellers at gun shows might have a difficult time keeping in stock not just guns and rifles, but grenade launchers, flame throwers and nuclear items as well.
Sometimes I think that politicians just don't want to address this problem in a way that is most likely to save lives. Sometimes, I think what they really want is the political benefits of perpetuating a simmering sort of cold civil war between gun-lovers and gun-haters. Why is it that so much talk is about whether to ban this or that gun or modification and not about how to ensure that people keep, bear and use guns in a manner that is most safe for the most people?
Why not treat guns more like cars or airplanes? Why not require training for everyone who wants to own a gun--and their children--and require insurance. And make the insurance more affordable for those who demonstrate the best record of gun safety. I grew up around guns and then, for years, I carried a gun for this country to support and defend our country and our Constitution. Without fail, it was people and their mindsets, not the guns they carried, that were the problem.
People will blame: the kid, his mental health, lack of mental health facilities, the school, the kid’s treatment at school, the parents, bullying etc. but not being able to get a gun is the best deterrent for a school or other mass shooting - period!
Thanks, that was a really good assessment of what is going on related to gun possession in the USA right now. It is sad that an inanimate object like a gun has more rights than the people who could be killed or injured by it. In this case, I do think the father should be held responsible because he knew what his son was threatening and kept guns in the home and of course, the kid got hold of one and killed 4 human beings. The kid is 14 and has now sacrificed his life because a parent thought more of the guns than the people who ultimately became victims of the gun and the need to possess guns.
How can a 14-year-old “be tried as an adult?" Surely, that is an issue that should be litigated. BTW, every 14-year-old wants to feel powerful. Back in the day they used to read a Superman comics; now they grab an AR.
Under Georgia law, the minimum age to be charged as an adult is 13. And while even an alleged violent crime such as manslaughter or armed robbery can be moved to juvenile court, there is no exception made if the penalty for the alleged crime is death or life without parole. Here the death penalty is not an option because the defendant is under 18, but if first-degree murder is charged (as it very likely will be) the mandatory sentence is life without parole.
I just cannot fathom this. Ever. I was living about 15 miles from Sandy Hook Elementary School in CT, when that horrific event happened in 2012. Drove by that school weekly, taking the kids to music lessons.
We are human butchers apparently and those who should be working to protect the public from the abattoir we find ourselves living in wring their hands and express sympathy sometimes. Sad, sickening, maddening and depressing.
When we were unable to get sane gun safety laws after Sandy Hook, I gave up hope. Can’t imagine driving past there every day. I’m normally a cheerful, optimistic person but NOT about guns. I hate them.
When nothing changed in the years after Sandy Hook, I felt that nothing ever would. Those children would have graduated from high school this past summer if they had lived. I think about them every December. But the good news is that apparently, at a snail's pace, change has been happening.
It is insane that this student was already interviewed with his father. The father assured the FBI that he had no access to the guns in the house. Why is there an assault rifle in the house. 4 people are dead because this adult allowed these guns to be kept unsecured in his house. He should be charged with murder as well. This has got to stop.
This Jim Concannon the Gun expert on MSNBC. said this morning that in these cases there is always a “leak”. The suspect usually draws attention to himself before the shooting. He was absolutely right.
Infuriated isn't strong enough word to express how I feel about unfettered access to guns in our country. I'm livid. My heart breaks for the friends and family of the victims of today's mass shooting.
Two more children killed in school! In school! How is this even conceivable? A gun owning parent who insisted that his firearms are secure. How can a society that believes itself to be civilized accept in the name of a perverse "freedom" the continued sacrifice of children on the altar of the Second Amendment?
Do we KNOW that this 14 year old used an AR15 from his parent’s house? The Dad said he had hunting guns. Could the lid have obtained it somewhere else? A friend’s house?
Apparently this parent and child were called in to the school some time ago because of the child's threatening language. You may be right, Penny, and details are as yet too sketchy. You make a fair point. The next days will reveal more.
I am sick to death of gun violence tragedies one after another. I am sick of military weapons in the hands of civilians who clearly are a danger to both themselves and others. And I am sick to death of weak minded politicians more interested in serving the interests of the gun lobby than their constituents. As Kamala said today it does not have to be like this. There are reasonable gun safety measures that are overwhelmingly supported by a majority of Americans. However, until voters begin to punish politicians for failing to passsuch measures the tragedies will continue.
Please remember that four families are grieving tonight for the losses of two children and two teachers. Nine families are sitting at hospital bedsideshoping their children and one teacher will recover. And hundreds of children who suffered this trauma today will be traumatized for weeks, months, and perhaps even forever.
This is senseless violence. So many children dying needlessly. Schools having “shooter” drills. Mass killings must stop. No semi- automatic guns or military style guns should be allowed. You don’t need these kinds of guns to shoot deer. This has to happen now before more innocents are murdered.
The rest of the world agree that excessive guns in the hands of the public, leads to troubles like this. The arrogance of the US does not agree with. So , more and more kids will be killed this way.
"Credit" to the gun lobby, led by the NRA, and coddled by a Supreme Court that resurrected the anachronistic Second Amendment and grew it into something it was not intended to be when it was adopted. It is a monstrous barrier to the enactment of sensible gun regulation. I wrote about this a few years ago- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4581800
The Supreme Court made a deliberately incorrect and ahistorical interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, for what exact reasons I don't know; but the fallout continues to threaten the fabric of our society. The Constitution in its preamble aims to promote the general welfare, but this interpretation of the 2nd Amendment does the opposite.
It seems so childish, the whole premise of gun ownership's divine right, so, so, so, if the government become oppressive.... Joe, with his AK15 is going to overthrow the oppressor. Joe, or 20,000 Joes with AK15s, against the governments, bombs, drones, tanks, airplanes, and all the rest of the machines of war, etc. Poor Joe, with his outdated little gun weapon... stuff of fairy tales. For this pipe dream our children are dying.
I feel terrible for the people of Winder, as well as the public officials who spoke about the incident. It's tragic. But I vehemently disagree with the Sherriff (I think it was) who said he "never thought" he'd have to speak of such an event in his town.
We all have to admit it: Eventually, it WILL be our town, our children's school. No community is safe; nobody is immune from the eventual tragedy of gun violence. We can't be surprised when it happens to us; it's only a matter of time. It's a pandemic we all MUST deal with and solve.
Exactly so. We are one nation under guns. And after the latest tragedy you will hear, "But this isn't who we are." No, this is exactly who we are, and who we will be until we cherish our children more than our guns.
The courts that protect guns over people, especially over children, are sickening. I had a few experiences with guns when I was in my early twenties, and there was nothing positive about those experiences. Unless the guns make people feel more powerful, I don't understand this love affair our country has with guns. And even if feeling more powerful is what's behind the love affair with guns, I still don't understand it. IMO, what the courts are doing is promoting lawlessness. There are responsible gun owners, but too many people with guns are taking the law into their own hands these days. That scares me.
I cried when I heard this news. 14 years old!! A child!! His parents should have gotten him psychological help after he made violent threats last year that were important enough to bring in the FBI. Parents should be held accountable for neglecting their children’s needs resulting in mental health crises that erupt in violence. This 14 year old was most assuredly a deeply wounded and mentally ill child. He is guilty of course but so are his parents and so are the disgusting money grubbers who profit off gun sales. They should be charged as accessories after the fact. It’s just unconscionable.
I donʻt want to draw any conclusions by the childʻs name (Colt) but...... I wonder if these parents will be charged as occurred in Michigan?
I would hope so.
Does anyone know who to contact in eastern Pennsylvania to work with on election day? I live in CT and I’m not needed here. Everyone should head to a battleground state.
Check Jessica Craven's "Chop Wood/Carry Water" Substack. I believe she has information for different areas around the country.
It has to happen. Irresponsibility has to come with a price.
But the price for too many is the ones that are killed or injured, their families and all those that have to live with the horror of it happening so near or right in front of them. IT'S GOT TO STOP, vote those that support more and more guns, they are what kill in the hands of too many sick people.
Most of them are not "sick." Most are psychopaths and have a personality disorder, not mental illness.
Let us hope so. Charged, imprisoned and fined into forever poverty. Use the funds to somehow protect kids in schools.
There has to be some accountability. Maybe if enough parents are prosecuted in these cases, some deaths could be prevented.
I hope so!
I have no law studies in my past, but even a 4th grader could understand the reading of the 2nd amendment that DOES NOT give the general public the right to bear arms. It does give a “…well regulated militia…” the right to bear arms. And if one wishes to apply an originalist thinking to this, militias in the 18th century were organized state defense guards formed to protect against a central federal authority and at the time, that authority was the British crown.
In the 1970s, the board of the NRA, a sportsman’s club was take over by gun industry zealots who turned it into a pure lobby group for the gun industry. And when you repeat a lie over and over again as Joseph Goebbels knew so well, the lie becomes truth. The NRA has done its damage. They don’t need to exist anymore as the corrupt org it became.
I was having a non confrontational chat with a local police officer a short while back about guns and what he thought about possession. His curt response was, “It’s our second amendment rights.” Then I mentioned how two police officers had recently been killed in an ambush in Bristol, Connecticut. His response was unremarkable and I don’t recall it. But there you have it. The public does not have a right to own weapons. But even I stated further down that if Trump were to win that I would for the first time in my life arm myself for the coming civil war. And that’s what the gun industry wants; even people like me to patronize their services. I picketed in front of Hoffman’s Guns last year. The general manager came out for a talk. He suggested it could be a little dangerous picketing them to which I replied, “But I thought only the good guys have guns” which is scrawled on their building. I soon left because we know that statement is erroneous. And the big stampede to buy guns is, without discussion, in the tradition of white arming to suppress Black populations.
Bill I agree with what you are saying. However, Popular Information makes a case that Trump does well on campaigning as the crime reducing candidate because of the way that crime is reported in local news contributes to people's concerns about crime. https://popular.info/p/why-trumps-spurious-attacks-on-crime
Someone also pointed out that these local news stations are increasingly owned by Sinclair and Fox and other right wing groups. A problem that needs to be addressed in our country. The press, SCOTUS and others need to be addressed just as much as abortion rights.
It's disinformation.
Object to the FCC.
I wholeheartedly agree.
In response to your inquiry about working on election day, I suggest contacting your local board of elections. They probably need poll workers. I am a poll worker in MD and the county Bd. of elections set me up at a local polling place. And they train AND pay.
He wants info about working in an area (PA) outside of where he lives (CT).
Especially since the father apparently has already said that there was no “unsupervised” access to his cache of lethal weapons.
colt is one of those universe names....like weiner and bobbit.
How can a 14 yo obtain a gun?
The parents are responsible for their child until the age of 18, and need to be held responsible for this mass shooting.
It was an AR-15. It’s not hard to imagine a 14 year old boy getting ahold of that. That gun is very popular. It should be banned.
The father told the FBI he had “hunting guns” that were “secured.” How is an AR15 a hunting gun? I have argued this was gun owners who insist it is. That’s ridiculous bordering on obscene.
Did the FBI take daddy's word for it! Did they demand to see the guns? Were they even registered? Did they check?
Georgia is one of those southern states with the most lax gun laws. Who knows if guns even need to be registered there...
This is the 385th mass shooting in 2024.
The blood of the 4 is on Kemp and the legislature.
NO...
Gun registration
State permit to purchase
Assault weapon law
Magazine capacity restriction
Owner license required
Permit required for concealed carry
Permit required for open carry
Background checks for private sales.
The father should be charged with aiding and abetting in the murder for 4 individuals. Will they in Georgia? If he is white they will let him go.
We could prohibit the sale of ALL guns tomorrow and we’d still have a gun problem in this country 100 years from now. Why? Because America is awash in guns. But for God’s sake, we could start somewhere - like a ban on sale or possession of military grade semi automatic long guns. Every long hard journey begins with that first step.
Ban the ARs.
And require insurance, proportional to the evil the gun can do. And big fines for not having insurance.
Yes , there are people who drive cars uninsured. But they are a minority.
It won't stop the gun fetisists, with their tiny penises and insecurity. But it's a start.
Or ammunition. You can buy the gun, but if you can’t load it with the proper ammo, you might as well use it for a tomato stake. Laws prohibiting where the AR-15 ammunition can be sold, like gun ranges and used only at the range.
It’s not perfect by any means. But it’s a start on gun control without trying to control gun sales.
Law abiding citizens who like to own an AR-15 know it’s not a weapon used for home defense. It’s designed to kill as many people as possible. That’s its sole purpose. Not hunting.
A secure range is a perfect place to shoot without harming people. Split the gun dealers from ammunition dealers. Require an ammunition purchasing license and now there’s a paper trail. No purchased AR-15 ammunition can leave the range, but it can be stored there. With other storage options other than home, it has lucrative possibilities. Gun experts on hand for cleaning and servicing the weapons gun owners can appreciate. No membership necessary. I see this as a lucrative business opportunity. These weapons aren’t cheap nor is the ammunition but as we’re all taught in hunter safety courses around the country, Safety, Safety, Safety comes first. Can’t infringe on gun owner rights? Try something different. Plus create a safer place for AR-15 regulation usage.
All other guns used for home protection, hunting, sports events, gun collecting, can all be secured in homes with minimum ammunition purchase requirements.
Or load your own, cost effective and keeps you busy.
If we can regulate cigarettes, we can regulate ammunition sales. Get creative. We can do more without taking guns away or interfering with sales or ownership.
If these weapons aren’t instantly available to someone who is in crisis, it will save lives.
We must think! Be creative because this must not be permitted to continue.
Your idea has some merit, but there is absolutely NO REASON a regular person needs an AR-15. It’s intended for combat, to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. What percentage of our population join the military? How many of the military will be in combat and need such weapons? 1-2%? Sacrificing our children on the altar of gun companies’ profits is obscenely reprehensible.
Jenn As a Foreign Service Officer, I operated with a M-16 (predecessor to the AR-15) in rebel-infiltrated provinces during the 1964 Congolese foreign hostage crisis.
The M-16 was designed to kill. I could shoot a clip of 22 bullets in seconds. There is absolutely no reason why an American civilian should have access to such a killer weapon or ammo packets that make other guns automatic.
I taught the Constitution for two decades. A close reading of the 2nd Amendment clearly does NOT justify condoning such weapons for American civilians.
In 1791 thERE were state militias and only a few hundred soldiers in the American Army. The idea of grabbing a musket to protect your town was a commonplace concept back then. Today? PSHAW!
I've heard it is "fun" to fire. Some fun when it kills innocent children.
Totally agree
Yes, yes, yes. This is what I've been saying for years, regulate the sale of ammunition. If you want a military style gun, fine, have it but you can't get any ammunition for it. It seems I remember reading about a European country (Switzerland?) where ammunition was regulated. And your idea of those weapons being used at a shooting range is also a good one. I am not anti-gun but I am anti-slaughtering our children.
People will always find, or make, ammo. The internet is also full of places to buy ghost guns. The current interpretation of the 2nd Amendment opened Pandora's box.
It sure did
I'm in favor of having a 100% tax and additional surcharges on guns and ammunition, and limiting the # of bullets in a magazine.
But CA tried to limit the # of bullets in a magazine, but was stuck down.
https://apnews.com/article/california-gun-laws-highcapacity-magazines-ban-5e16caf66a17964b292d647e432ca6d8
High CA taxes on cigarettes and making it almost impossible to smoke made me quit, 13 years tobacco free.
Yes! The conservative Right Wing in this country has patiently used and is still using the “inch by inch” tactical strategy to dismantle all of our cultural norms and interpersonal agreements that make this and any functioning democracy work well. We are far behind their lead in most every case. As in basketball, you miss every shot you decide not to take. There’s no time like the present to begin mounting a staunch counterinsurgency, but one based squarely in a more rational rule of law.
The conservative right, Christofascists who own most of the guns in this country and are now the formidable adversary directing our politico-social battleground believe as a matter of faith that they are a grassroots militia empowered by whatever higher power suits their fancy to defend their delusional vision of American Democracy with the guns that kill so many innocents every day. From this source cauldron their perceived 2nd Amendment rights flow as water from a firehouse. They and their rancid vision of America is the unnaturally fertile ground from which our “gun problem” luxuriates.
Australia had a gun buyback program in 1996, made it a crime to own one, and virtually eliminated all guns.
Too many guns. And get this: there are estimated some 400 million plus guns in the US. If 50,000 firearms were to be destroyed EVERY DAY, and no new ones added, it would take about 22 years to be rid of them.
How old would your kids be in twenty-two years?
We need to pass a law to make impossible for anyone under the age of 21 to obtain an assault weapon. I can dream, can't I?
Kyle Rittenhouse's rifle was purchased for him by a relative who told him he couldn't have it until he turned 18. His cousin got ahold of the gun and gave it to Rittenhouse, who killed 2 people with it hours later.
IMHO, at the first indication of this boy's violent obsessions, he should have been removed from school, period! We need firmness in every aspect of managing this national tragedy. He should have remained under parental supervision while doing home studies. Then, all parties could reconcile with the seriousness of threats to schools, students, and teachers.
I don’t want to lay all of mine blame on the parents without knowing more. Yes, they needed to prevent access to firearms. Also, they should have gotten him extensive mental health treatment. I hope they tried, but I know that finding treatment, and having insurance that will pay for it at the level that it is needed can be very difficult. Yes, the parents have a responsibility, but did they try and society put up roadblocks? It’s another preventable tragedy with guns, and I suspect the parents aren’t the only ones deserving blame.
The parents could have gotten rid of their guns. That’s a good start.
If the father had an AR style gun and told the FBI he had "hunting rifles" then he's a liar. Start there.
Well if they knew their child was sick and couldn't afford the treatment it's their responsibility to eliminate his ability to get his hands on the guns. No unsupervised access????????? Guess he found a way around that.
Hi Sally. This is what I think about this tragedy. The truth is that Americans value the right to own guns over the right of children and people to life, liberty and security of the person. Until Americans eliminate or modify the second amendment, the slaughter of children and people will continue. You will continue to cry at the deaths and issue the meaningless 'our hearts and minds go out to the families' statements. Until you take a stand against access to guns, you are complicit in the gun violence that tarnishes America. I write this with respect and hope for a different America.
We should not seek to eliminate the Second Amendment. We should seek to illuminate its true meaning and seek to have it applied as the Founders and Framers intended. Too many judges (especially the so-called originalists on SCOTUS) pretend (or maybe even actually believe) that the Second Amendment is all about guns merely because it says "arms."
True originalists would think like the originals did--like the people who founded this nation and framed our Constitution. The Second Amendment's scope is both far greater and far more limited that some SCOTUS "originalist" justices pretend to believe. They actually know that the Second Amendment doesn't pertain necessarily or even primarily to guns or to taking lives. They know that it pertains primarily and fundamentally to defense and preservation. They know it pertains primarily to saving lives. See, e.g., https://blackcollarcrime.substack.com/p/the-dobbs-fraud-by-scotuss-fake-originalists-f5a?r=30ufvh
As a result, the Second Amendment clearly is pro choice (and it is controlling legal authority) and (contrary to the pretenses of the "originalists" on SCOTUS) it clearly establishes each woman's constitutional right to choose to terminate a pregnancy for the purpose of protecting her own life or safety.
Interesting. Will pursue this line of thought.
Cindy, How do you know I don’t take a stand? You comment is quite presumptuous . You have no idea where my hard earned and heart felt donations go.
Hi Sally. My apologies to you. I should have used the word we, not you. I did not intend to criticize you. Your points are an important piece of the answer. The bottom line for me is political courage is necessary to stop gun violence.
Cheers!
Thank you
How exactly did you reproduce Sally's comment? Who are you and what are you up to?
I agree that it is tragic, and until we change our Supreme Court ,we are forced to accept this level of violence in the USA. This is the reason my child is going to university in Germany, where they have guns too, but they have more serious gun laws. No one under 25 is getting a gun without going through a psychological evaluation. Each gun owner needs liability insurance of at least 1.1 million €. You need training and a permit. You have to lock up your guns and the police can show up to check on this unannounced. Still there is violence. It is creating a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment. Germany is not discussing enacting stricter gun laws, they are discussing enacting stricter knife laws. I am not saying that people with knives cannot kill, they can, but really a knife vs an AR-15 is apples and bananas. Just totally different in the realm of damage they can do. No sniper knifers. Still, this killing, killing, killing in the USA, that many Americans have found an acceptable part of society, is what cause me to mostly live in the EU. When I am in the USA, I feel a constant awareness of the fact that not only do people have guns, but we were not prepared enough to prevent the Supreme Court that we currently have, which is the biggest reason we cannot get reasonable gun laws enacted. I must add that in Germany most people have personal liability insurance. It is what you use when you have ridden your bike and nicked someone's car, or your first grade threw a ball at a tree and it bounced off, hit a car, and broke the window. It is going to kick in if you did not intentionally commit the act.
I do not feel free in a country where I have to constantly worry about being shot. In my community in Chicago, which is a university community, an 18-year old with an AR-15, shot and killed a University student from China, who would not relinquish his laptop 2 years ago. A friend of a friend is a surgeon living on that block and he ran out to try to help the boy, and told my friend he had never seen so much blood in his life. Then, during the pandemic, my daughter was out walking with a friend, and when she came home, we learned that a man with a gun, who was driving around from one end of the city to another, shot and killed a graduate student who had just finished his PhD, also from China right were she and her friend had been walking around that time. He also killed a woman who was the door-person of a luxury building nearby, and a mom and her daughter who were in a car near him.
Then, I was looking at the stats that the Guardian published on serial shootings in the USA for the last 10 years. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/may/27/us-mass-shootings-database
I looked at Chicago, my US city to compare, and there I saw that on July 4, 2023 they don't even have Chicago listed, where 73 were shot, 11 fatally, because it was over the weekend, and they were not all in one place, but these are still a lot of shootings, or according to another report 109 shot, 19 fatally over the weekend. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023/7/3/23781855/chicago-shootings-fourth-of-july-weekend-2023
or according to another report 109 shot, 19 fatally over the weekend.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/07/09/chicago-gun-violence-shootings/74333431007/
Or June 18, 2023 where 71 where shot at least 9 fatally. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023/7/3/23781855/chicago-shootings-fourth-of-july-weekend-2023
Or, August 9, 2021 where 73 people were shot and 10 killed over the weekend.
https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/09/73-people-shot-10-killed-weekend-violence-across-chicago
Over the years I have kept track of the Global Peace index, and in the past few years we went down the list from 129, to now 132. Scroll down to page 9 and see.
https://www.economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/GPI-2024-web.pdf
Notice that there are a lot of poor African countries considered safer than ours. This is ironic because we see that being the wealthiest nation on earth cannot buy us safety. I see the job of our nation as getting control of the Supreme Court so that it serves the people, not their wealthy benefactors. Then, we need to seriously go after gun control. It is a monumental task. We are endangered from the proliferation of guns, and these lone shooters are heated up by on line propaganda, often being White Supremacist in nature. This film AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, about violence on January 6, is eye opening and ties into the general danger we are in because of right wing policies that help them to be armed to the teeth. https://youtu.be/D2uwOZhqGS0?si=RA_7OzYUkvqxx6pr
And therein is one of the issues. If the child is deeply wounded at the age of 14 it starts at home and the parents are the wounders. Probably also deeply wounded themselves. Sigh. But yes, we should absolutely hold parents responsible.
Many 14 yo's are wounded just by being here in a country that wounds children by being so violent that kids have to practice active shooter drills. Many 14 yo males are confused by hormones and 14 yo girls. A 14 yo is not an adult and should not be tried as one.
I had a very confused 14 yo son who never had gun toys, never had a beating, was never cursed nor denigrated, was in treatment off and on for years, and has grown to be a fine contributor to society, a fine employee, and a fine father... and an AR15 owner, much to my chagrin.
You know very little about this child or his parents yet. Hold off on your judgment.
Having the FBI contact you about your child should've been a great big fucking red flag.
I worked in behavioral health.
Mental illness is responsible for only 5% of mass shootings. https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/mass-shootings-and-mental-illness<
EXCERPT>>The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.
Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, >>other risk factors, >>such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization.
Columbia Mass Murder Database
Findings from the Columbia database help dispel the myth that having a severe psychiatric illness is predictive of who will perpetrate mass murder......
Why does the public erroneously link mental illness with mass shootings and with violence in general?
A lot of people who aren’t experts in mental illness tend to equate bad behavior, and often immorality, with mental illness. These are a false equivalence. I think it's incumbent on us, especially when we're talking about something as horrible as mass shootings, to make sure other people understand that all bad behavior, and certainly not evil and pure psychopathy, is not the same as mental illness........
The major findings from our database are that the vast majority of mass shootings and mass murder are committed by people without mental illness, and certainly not psychotic illness, and when a person with severe mental illness commits a mass murder, they’re much less likely to use firearms than other methods, such as arson or knives.
Karma never happens soon enough for me regarding gun sales, drug pushers, sex, offenders, etc.
Each awful shooting must be understood in light of its own circumstances. However, they all occur in an environment of weak regulation exploited by the gun industry to promote record gun sales. The Supreme Court bears responsibility for that weak regulation, having wrenched open Pandora's box with its decision on the Second Amendment in Heller and following jurisprudence. Three members of the Heller bench remain on the Court: Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Thomas and Justice Alito. These three just keep on giving. Roberts authored the majority opinion in Trump v. United States. Alito authored the majority opinion in Dobbs. Thomas demeans the Court by his presence.
More than likely the father egged him on.
Thank you professor. I think this is the only time that I used the word hate. I hate guns. We don’t need them. so many tragedies so many senseless senseless acts of violence. Peace of love everybody.
If ever there was a case of a slowly boiled frog, it is the United States and guns. Degree by degree, arms have evolved from single shot pistols and muskets which took a minute to reload, to the 6-chamber revolver of the Civil War era, to the automatic and semi-automatic weapon of today with a magazine shooting 50 rounds without reloading. Get 10 of them and you can shoot 600 people from the top floor of a Las Vegas hotel, lickety split.
Kafkaesque.
I agree with you 100%. I hate guns, too. Hearing over and over that the Second Amendment says everybody should be armed with as many kinds of weapons as they want makes me nauseous, and of course, scared just thinking about.
We shouldn't have to worry about shopping at a mall, going to a concert, going to church, or even shopping at a grocery store or Wal-Mart in case there's an armed person there who has nefarious plans. School kids, teachers, and staff should NOT have to be constantly afraid that they could be victims of an active shooter.
I doubt anyone can forget the young man who slaughtered his fellow students at Columbine High School. It seems that since then, this is happening more and more each year. Not sure what the statistics are, but it would be interesting to know whether most of these shootings are happening more often in states with very minimal gun laws, or in those with laws made to protect citizens no matter WHERE they happen to be at any given minute.
Finally, I highly recommend a publication from the Department of Homeland Security called "Active Shooter - How to Respond." Reading --- and remembering --- the information everything in this 13-page booklet could save many lives. Here's the link: https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
[Be advised that I'm not very computer-literate when it comes to posting links, so hopefully, this works.]
Is there any limit to the second amendment? Can I own a grenade launcher? A flame thrower? How about a nuke in a suitcase? Is that protected under the second amendment? The whole thing is bat crap crazy!
Enough!
David, your questions made me smile a bit, even though they are serious and need to be given consideration. Actually, I had to laugh to keep from crying, because there's no way to know what people have with them at any given time, or what they left behind in the trunks of their cars.
We shouldn't have to live in fear that ANYTHING could happen anywhere and anytime. Unfortunately, as we learned yesterday, no place is safe. Yes, it has become "bad crap crazy" (LOVE that term, BTW) and I believe that unless the Democrats win in November, things will become unbelievably worse. That scares the h*ll out of me.
As long as the NRA generously supports these repulsive politicians, these very people who were voted in office will continue to claim that the Second Amendment allows carte blanche to kill any living being, whether two-legged, four-legged, without any appendages (like amoebas, worms, slugs, etc.), or creatures with fins who live under water.
Some of our illustrious individuals will go a step further by insisting that the Framers wanted to make sure that "the militia" would be able to have at their disposal every kind of weapon available at that time in history, and anything that would or could be invented even hundreds of years later ...... just in case there might be a need for everyone to have their own arsenals. Always thinking ahead, those Framers were very worried that someday, due to the ever-increasing obsession over the RIGHT to bear arms, many private armorers, local gun shops, "unofficial" gun dealers, and sellers at gun shows might have a difficult time keeping in stock not just guns and rifles, but grenade launchers, flame throwers and nuclear items as well.
The link works.
Yay!!! Thanks for letting me know!
Scared is the point for the gun Nazis.
Sometimes I think that politicians just don't want to address this problem in a way that is most likely to save lives. Sometimes, I think what they really want is the political benefits of perpetuating a simmering sort of cold civil war between gun-lovers and gun-haters. Why is it that so much talk is about whether to ban this or that gun or modification and not about how to ensure that people keep, bear and use guns in a manner that is most safe for the most people?
Why not treat guns more like cars or airplanes? Why not require training for everyone who wants to own a gun--and their children--and require insurance. And make the insurance more affordable for those who demonstrate the best record of gun safety. I grew up around guns and then, for years, I carried a gun for this country to support and defend our country and our Constitution. Without fail, it was people and their mindsets, not the guns they carried, that were the problem.
People will blame: the kid, his mental health, lack of mental health facilities, the school, the kid’s treatment at school, the parents, bullying etc. but not being able to get a gun is the best deterrent for a school or other mass shooting - period!
Of course, Virginia. Talk about common sense!
RShits and guns: Make sure the country is awash in guns. Make crime a constant campaign issue. Rinse. Repeat.
RShits again have blood on their hands and they're DAMN proud of their thoughts and prayers!
Thanks, that was a really good assessment of what is going on related to gun possession in the USA right now. It is sad that an inanimate object like a gun has more rights than the people who could be killed or injured by it. In this case, I do think the father should be held responsible because he knew what his son was threatening and kept guns in the home and of course, the kid got hold of one and killed 4 human beings. The kid is 14 and has now sacrificed his life because a parent thought more of the guns than the people who ultimately became victims of the gun and the need to possess guns.
How can a 14-year-old “be tried as an adult?" Surely, that is an issue that should be litigated. BTW, every 14-year-old wants to feel powerful. Back in the day they used to read a Superman comics; now they grab an AR.
Under Georgia law, the minimum age to be charged as an adult is 13. And while even an alleged violent crime such as manslaughter or armed robbery can be moved to juvenile court, there is no exception made if the penalty for the alleged crime is death or life without parole. Here the death penalty is not an option because the defendant is under 18, but if first-degree murder is charged (as it very likely will be) the mandatory sentence is life without parole.
How much you wanna bet that the 13 age of adulthood is primarily used to charge black boys as adults?
This Oahu kane thinks you nailed it.
Exactly what I thought when I read that.
Thanks for the detailed info. Georgia law has a strange conception of adulthood.
Georgia has a great many strange conceptions.
Back in my day, I was worried about being hit in the head by a tetherball.
Kids are now being taught how to hide from a mass shooter.
It is the law in many states that 13 to 18 yr olds can be tried as an adult if they commit a “serious crime.”
They have been in other states.
Somehow I doubt that charging this 14 year old murderer as an adult will stand up in court.
I just cannot fathom this. Ever. I was living about 15 miles from Sandy Hook Elementary School in CT, when that horrific event happened in 2012. Drove by that school weekly, taking the kids to music lessons.
And it keeps happening.
Who are we? Who ARE we?????
We are human butchers apparently and those who should be working to protect the public from the abattoir we find ourselves living in wring their hands and express sympathy sometimes. Sad, sickening, maddening and depressing.
And legislators proudly wear AR 15 pins next to their flag pins & pose with weapons in Christmas cards.
Revolting. Obscene. Those AR 15 pins are horrible.
so are tge people who wear them! EVEN WORSE!
When we were unable to get sane gun safety laws after Sandy Hook, I gave up hope. Can’t imagine driving past there every day. I’m normally a cheerful, optimistic person but NOT about guns. I hate them.
When nothing changed in the years after Sandy Hook, I felt that nothing ever would. Those children would have graduated from high school this past summer if they had lived. I think about them every December. But the good news is that apparently, at a snail's pace, change has been happening.
https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/blog/advocacy/5-life-saving-changes-after-the-sandy-hook-tragedy/
It is insane that this student was already interviewed with his father. The father assured the FBI that he had no access to the guns in the house. Why is there an assault rifle in the house. 4 people are dead because this adult allowed these guns to be kept unsecured in his house. He should be charged with murder as well. This has got to stop.
This Jim Concannon the Gun expert on MSNBC. said this morning that in these cases there is always a “leak”. The suspect usually draws attention to himself before the shooting. He was absolutely right.
Infuriated isn't strong enough word to express how I feel about unfettered access to guns in our country. I'm livid. My heart breaks for the friends and family of the victims of today's mass shooting.
Two more children killed in school! In school! How is this even conceivable? A gun owning parent who insisted that his firearms are secure. How can a society that believes itself to be civilized accept in the name of a perverse "freedom" the continued sacrifice of children on the altar of the Second Amendment?
Do we KNOW that this 14 year old used an AR15 from his parent’s house? The Dad said he had hunting guns. Could the lid have obtained it somewhere else? A friend’s house?
I do not want to blame parents yet.
Apparently this parent and child were called in to the school some time ago because of the child's threatening language. You may be right, Penny, and details are as yet too sketchy. You make a fair point. The next days will reveal more.
AR15 obliterates. Not a gun for hunting. A joke!
I am sick to death of gun violence tragedies one after another. I am sick of military weapons in the hands of civilians who clearly are a danger to both themselves and others. And I am sick to death of weak minded politicians more interested in serving the interests of the gun lobby than their constituents. As Kamala said today it does not have to be like this. There are reasonable gun safety measures that are overwhelmingly supported by a majority of Americans. However, until voters begin to punish politicians for failing to passsuch measures the tragedies will continue.
Please remember that four families are grieving tonight for the losses of two children and two teachers. Nine families are sitting at hospital bedsideshoping their children and one teacher will recover. And hundreds of children who suffered this trauma today will be traumatized for weeks, months, and perhaps even forever.
We can and should be much better.
This is senseless violence. So many children dying needlessly. Schools having “shooter” drills. Mass killings must stop. No semi- automatic guns or military style guns should be allowed. You don’t need these kinds of guns to shoot deer. This has to happen now before more innocents are murdered.
The rest of the world agree that excessive guns in the hands of the public, leads to troubles like this. The arrogance of the US does not agree with. So , more and more kids will be killed this way.
"Credit" to the gun lobby, led by the NRA, and coddled by a Supreme Court that resurrected the anachronistic Second Amendment and grew it into something it was not intended to be when it was adopted. It is a monstrous barrier to the enactment of sensible gun regulation. I wrote about this a few years ago- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4581800
The Supreme Court made a deliberately incorrect and ahistorical interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, for what exact reasons I don't know; but the fallout continues to threaten the fabric of our society. The Constitution in its preamble aims to promote the general welfare, but this interpretation of the 2nd Amendment does the opposite.
It seems so childish, the whole premise of gun ownership's divine right, so, so, so, if the government become oppressive.... Joe, with his AK15 is going to overthrow the oppressor. Joe, or 20,000 Joes with AK15s, against the governments, bombs, drones, tanks, airplanes, and all the rest of the machines of war, etc. Poor Joe, with his outdated little gun weapon... stuff of fairy tales. For this pipe dream our children are dying.
I feel terrible for the people of Winder, as well as the public officials who spoke about the incident. It's tragic. But I vehemently disagree with the Sherriff (I think it was) who said he "never thought" he'd have to speak of such an event in his town.
We all have to admit it: Eventually, it WILL be our town, our children's school. No community is safe; nobody is immune from the eventual tragedy of gun violence. We can't be surprised when it happens to us; it's only a matter of time. It's a pandemic we all MUST deal with and solve.
Exactly so. We are one nation under guns. And after the latest tragedy you will hear, "But this isn't who we are." No, this is exactly who we are, and who we will be until we cherish our children more than our guns.
The courts that protect guns over people, especially over children, are sickening. I had a few experiences with guns when I was in my early twenties, and there was nothing positive about those experiences. Unless the guns make people feel more powerful, I don't understand this love affair our country has with guns. And even if feeling more powerful is what's behind the love affair with guns, I still don't understand it. IMO, what the courts are doing is promoting lawlessness. There are responsible gun owners, but too many people with guns are taking the law into their own hands these days. That scares me.