143 Comments

I’m glad this community exists. I have a feeling we’re gonna need each other a ton for the next little while. I’m glad to be here with y’all.

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Same. Thank you all for being here.

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Yes, and let's search our contact lists for others we can share Joyce's letters with. Keep growing this community and brainstorming together. I'm so glad I found y'all.

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I’m in!

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I am and do. I also send animal and knitting and tea pictures to calm some friends down while pretending I'm calm.

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I agree. I am doing "therapy" this morning -- group therapy, I should say -- to help me get over the trauma of seeing what has been happening for the past 4 days, culminating in the horror of Mac's puerile speech and the fact that Chairmanship of some of our most crucial Congressional committees will now go to some of the worst of the worst in Congress.

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True. It’s an utter disgrace. The sad part is that as we continue to be strong and active, we have to pay close attention to these insurrectionist dimwits. Ugh.

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And I'm SO tired... It's been 8 years, so far.

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Joyce's Civil Discourse is my new alternative to Twitter. Thank you, Joyce, for feeding us.

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"THEY GOT IN, AFTER ALL."

Watching mccarthy pick up the Speaker's gavel, and listening to his first words, I had that sudden, chilling realization: "They got in, after all!" The insurrectionists who invaded the People's House two years ago, have now taken over the House. The coup happened. In the exact same place where they forced a delay in the vote of the Electoral College, the Capitol building; on the exact same date, January 7th; and at the exact same time, the wee hours of the morning -- here we are precisely two years later with 150 repugnicant election-deniers sitting in our House, and cheering for the corrupt mr. mccarthy. I am sick at heart.

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kdsgerpa, They did. Now for my question; AG Garland, for how long? We have the laws in place to remove them, never to allow them govern again. So, are we going to allow them to turn us into a full blown oligarchy? Or, are we going to insist this be addressed and acted upon? The law is crystal clear on this, file a law suit against the DOJ for allowing known seditionists to be seated? Merrick Garland is a federalist society judge, perhaps he doesn’t find this as disturbing as we do? Who knows? By not enforcing laws that protect our democracy, expect anarchy. The Republican Party is burning hot with sedition and having crazy fever dreams. What they want unrestrained power. We saw that with our own eyes 👀. Yet, here we are, the place our framers and ancestors fought and died to protect us and the rest of the world from.

Republicans and their ilk want us desperately to appear weak to the rest of the world. It’s working.

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From one Livolsi to another...I couldn’t agree with you more! The fact the McCarthy thanked TFG for his “win” is appalling. McCarthy is a tool to be used and tossed aside when they get what they want. It’s going to be a long 2 years, but they still must be held accountable.

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Joe, pleasant surprise to see another Livolsi here! You took the words right out of the mouth! What a giant tool!

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𝙲𝚕𝚊𝚜𝚜 𝙰𝚌𝚝𝚒𝚘𝚗 𝚕𝚊𝚠𝚜𝚞𝚒𝚝 𝚊𝚐𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚜𝚝 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝙳𝚘𝙹 𝚏𝚘𝚛 𝚗𝚘𝚝 𝚊𝚌𝚝𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚚𝚞𝚒𝚌𝚔𝚕𝚢 𝚎𝚗𝚘𝚞𝚐𝚑?

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I thought they were going to have to shutdown the government due to the normal inability to do anything productive because they don't want to work. My parter believes they were too stupid to orchestrate a plan to do that.

I've been afraid for years about what's going on. It's why I "ate" books like "On Tyranny", Masha's book on autocracy (just keep saying "yes" to the autocrat), Applebaum's book, "The Twilight of Democracy." I have another being delivered today but I forgot the name of it but it's by Ruth Ben-Ghiat. I like knowing where we're headed (Orban/Hungary) and what it'll look like if we get there. I did read the biography of Angela Merkel for fun and it was fabulous inbetween the scary books.

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Ruth Ben-Ghiat's work is excellent. I've found the historical parallels she draws to demonstrate trends are very valuable for how we think about what we are observing in real time.

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Ruth's book is Strongmen, and it's excellent.

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They got in but for how long😀

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Exactly. And that is up to us.

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Long enough to create "legislative monsters" of their own. While Trump may be gone directly from the DC scene his brand of truth/alternate facts and the like are marching on.

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I'm not sick at heart: I'm tremendously relieved that enough sane, pro-democracy voters turned out in November (and, in GA, again in December) to keep the Senate and minimize Republican gains in the House. I remember much too well what happened when just enough petulant "progressives" stayed home in 2016 and the country got stuck with Trump.

We USians have plenty of reasons to be skeptical about voting, especially since the Citizens United decision opened the floodgates to dark money. In many places we have to do it on faith. But I'm glad enough of us did it this time.

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In time, hopefully I will regain some of my happiness about the Senate wins. Last night was so gruesome, I am having to process it.

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It is sickening, particularly when you think about, and we don't know the full extent yet, of McCarthy "selling the farm". How much did he give away? Plenty. All for power. As he began to speak, what entered my mind was that he was not the brightest light in the room and couldn't compare to the humble yet brilliant Hakeem Jeffries who gave a speech for the ages. Schumer is exactly right, in every word he uttered about McCarthy's win and the GOP/MAGA house. What really gets me is that many in that party either gave tours of the Capitol two years ago, were part of the planning and/or the insurrection itself, and are now holding public office with no accountability. Santos sat alone in the beginning of the week, but as McCarthy won last night, Santos was sitting right next to Gaetz. Integrity has to place in this party.

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!!! I didn't see that picture of Santos next to Mattt!!! I DID see Madge all over Mattt when he apparently finally gave in to Mac. It was obvious what THAT meant.

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It reminds me of Heather Cox Richardson’s book How the South Won the Civil War. It’s happened again.

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Excellent book

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✅ Greaaaaate book!

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I had the same thoughts and feelings. The voters gave our House to the seditious conspirators.

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And the House proceeded to give the seditious conspirators power over all.

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𝕀𝕟𝕕𝕖𝕖𝕕. 𝕊𝕒𝕞𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝕞𝕖.

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Hakeem Jeffries is a true leader. He has gumption and leadership qualities much needed going forward. I shall remain hopeful that 20 Republicans or more will do the right thing when they realize the necessity. Peace, Joyce.

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I am looking forward to watching him lead. If the last six years have taught us anything, it's that the individuals inside of our institutions really do matter a lot. He seems to be a case of right person, right time.

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I'm hoping that the sincerity that he delivered his speech with gets through to some of the non-crazed Republicans, the ones who still have working brains & actually know b.s. when they see/hear it and will have the courage to side with Dems when courage is what is called for, the likes of which Liz Cheney & Adam Kinzinger showed America that they have. I don't expect them to side with Dems all the time, but on crucial votes, I hope they do. Carry on. BTW, I am enjoying the give and take on Mastodon, not missing Twitter one iota. Peace.

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He sure schooled the House on the ABCs of governing!!!

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It’s certainly very unsettling. Thank you Joyce for articulating so well what is happening. I just feel like the inmates are now running Congress and it scares the crap out of me, but I am comforted to know we are in this together.

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While the sabers were rattling about a potential, deliberate default on the horizon thanks to extremist reps bent on destruction (some of whom on Putin’s dark $ payroll) and we had no functioning legislature, the stock market was up 700 points--yes, the jobs numbers. And would much prefer it be up than down for sure. Yet, have to wonder that what’s described herein --the uncertainty/instability which is the #1 thing the market hates--was seemingly unreflected— as if it’s not possible or believable. Are enough backstops there to not hold SS& Medicare hostage? Not bring the world economy to its knees? The instability, insanity, uncertainty and sh*tshow ahead was won by voter suppression and gerrymandering. Operative tactics. The unaccountable to date, insurrectionist plotters made a coup of the House using the vote for speaker. They are focused on screwing up the FBI while it’s investigating Trump stolen top secret docs & if sold to adversaries of democracy + J6. Trump is running for POTUS and remains on the loose—let’s get back to the top secret, stolenvdocs case—whose hands did they end up in? They are hellbent on hamstringing the DOJ investigators —gee, wonder why? We’re helping Ukraine hold its own but we are under attack here by the same adversary still using their dirty, secret $. Thanks Citizens United & SCOTUS.

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👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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Where oh where are those FEMA camps the conservative entertainment complex is always going on about, when we have a crying need for the incarceration of 222 seditious conspirators and their enablers?

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Just burns my ham! But, I’m one of those people that takes my burned ham to the bank, cashes it in and goes on road with it. The answer to all this is vote.

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It's very telling that this debacle reached its climax on January 6, two years after a coup attempt and insurrection.

The trump agenda will be continued by the extreme right wing Republican cabal in the House, and I wonder if American Constitutional Government is any safer after today than we were two years ago.

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Well we still have Biden and a Senate majority. I will be interested to see how they play this winner take all scenario. I am not prepared to feel discouraged. We the People will get through this too.

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I might add that two years seems like a very long time for this destructive clown show but two years will fly by. And we must all be prepared for the next election.

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I would say we are not as safe today because the criminals control the House. Kevin McCarthy better enjoy this brief time he has as Speaker. He should have been more careful for what he wished for. Any one of those rabid, rancid, wild minded extremists in his party could turn on him and each other in a skinny minute. I pray that enough of them will not serve out their term that sanity can be restored.

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He certainly is beholden to the extremists who voted for him. And, also to trump, who was making his own phone calls last night.

The Republicans are still owned by trump.

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I don't believe McCarthy will be Speaker for very long. All it takes is one vote and he's out.

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I'm not sure it takes a single vote. I think it takes a single individual to make a Motion to remove the speaker but I would think that the entire House would then have to vote on the Motion. Joyce? Someone? Is this correct.

At least, the elected representatives have now been sworn in and, one hopes, there would be enough sane Republicans (surely there are some?) to join with Democrats to vote McC off of the speaker's chair.. Unfortunately, if he's removed, we end up right where we have been this past week though. Talk about Catch 22!

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All of us need to work very hard every single day to get out the vote in every election up and down the ballot. We need to find ways to get young voters registered to vote as soon as they turn 18. That’s what groups such as “Voters of Tomorrow” are doing. Please follow @marcelias and @democracydocket on Post.News or Twitter and subscribe to his daily newsletter updates. Go to:

ballotpedia.org to learn more about local and special elections in your state and community. There is an election in Virginia for a vacant House seat: The election is February 21. The Democratic candidate is Jennifer McClellan. She needs our support!

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Not quite as pessimistic as dear Joyce Vance because I have learned from several wise people to always reserve space in your thoughts for the unknown. Linda mentioned we will probably pick up another House seat in February. I suspect we will gain more.

What we need are experienced leaders for this coming battle, and discipline. We are fortunate to have them in the Executive, Senate, and House. We are blessed to have Speaker Jeffries and Rep Pelosi standing or sitting nearby.

Everyone participating in Joyce Vance newsletter has a common goal to preserve our democracy. I believe we will succeed if all of us join and work daily to achieve it.

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Hi Linda, I see you're from Evanston. I live in Skokie. Neighbors!

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Palatine, here. My daughter lives in Evanston.

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A win for Jennifer Mc makes it 213 Dems in the House next month.

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We know the names of the 20 who

held our country hostage this past

week. These are congress people.

They serve for 2 years. A few of them were involved with Trump's

fake electors scheme. Some of

them will be up for re-election

within the next 2 years. We, the

people, need to clean our House.

We need to stay the course and

do whatever we can and must do,

to get rid of these malignant

people. We are in this together!

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Fingers crossed that some of them get indicted PDQ. (Gaetz, Santos, surely there are others)

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Weren’t all or most of these people active in the denial of the Election? More than “some”?

Trump election

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It is truly frightening to see these people in action and their agenda. I already know that the Republicans cannot govern, at least nothing that I consider governing appropriately. The way that they all seem to be stuck in junior high, a period in life where one is not comfortable in ones own skin and you do not hear people talking to you, blow upsets out of proportion and get into petty fights, fractionalize, bump into people without noticing because you do not have control of your body as it grows and changes. The mean girls, and bully boys come out of the closets. These are not sophisticated people experientially. Their world view is truncated by lack of experiences. The constituency that the right wing contingent of the party--the MAGA Republicans are trying to appeal to--are those with a White Nationalist agenda. They want to blow up our government and nation so that they can violently take over the hoped for chaotic disarray and create a White Nationalist State. They do not represent the majority of the USA, what they represent is their ability to get in their gerrymandering and numerous anti election laws before the Democrats got to protect these rights. Kevin McCarthy is low down scum. He is the bully boy who is bullied too. He has given away his power for the role of being the Speaker. I hope he is not third in line for the presidency because he is a terrible leader. We are going to have to count on the Democratic faction to hold out on votes. As I understand it the House of Representatives needs a simple majority of 218 votes to pass a bill, but then it moves to the Senate who has to approve it too. The Senate is going to have to save us from the craziness of the House. The President can also veto the bills. It is time for all of us to work on the Moderates in the Republican party and suggest that they become Independents in action if not in name.

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I dearly hope Republicans from blue districts will summon the courage to alter the outcome of this disaster.

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I can't even think of the succession for the Presidency without having a panic attack.

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Particularly as I read about several Democrats in New Mexico having their homes or offices shot at.

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When criminals, whether are in Congress or street thugs, aren't punished for their crimes, other criminals are emboldened. And, since Republicans and SCOTUS have been working feverishly to relax or eliminate gun control laws, unfortunately I believe we will see more violence rather than less.

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I fear that you are correct. Recent attacks on home offices of Democrats in New Mexico are horrifying.

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Thank you for your comment. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I see a disturbing relationship between the violent rhetoric of Republican politicians, their unfettered ability to foment violence without any consequences, and their unwillingness to support even the most basic gun control laws--as strong part of their political strategy.

What was so interesting--and distressing during the midterms--was that violence was a big issue, and yet, Republicans who have done absolutely nothing about gun control in 30 years because of Mitch McConnell, except for passing the very weak bipartisan gun control bill--painted Democrats as responsible for gun violence due to the rhetoric for "defunding the police," when Republicans are completely responsible for it.

And, it is a terrible sign that house Republicans like MTG (who delighted in her Thanksgiving videos showing herself shooting feral pigs from a helicopter,) and Lauren Boebert, who wore a holstered gun on her thigh during her reelection campaign appearances, will now be elevated within the Republican Party.

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AND -- there are no longer magnetometers at the doors of the House, courtesy of the new Speaker. I wouldn't be surprised if bobblehead shows up with a holstered gun one of these days. (Sorry. Juvenile, but it helps me keep some semblance of humor when I write or talk about these scary people.)

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So horrible.

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Naw. McCarthy would panic if he ever set foot in the Oval Office.

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McCarthy does not strike me as bright enough to understand that he is not qualified to lead the House, let alone the Country. I am sure he wants to be in the White House, and probably sees himself having to pay obayance to Trump one more time before it can be his turn. I personally am hoping that Trump is running from prison this by time next year.

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We have to choose whether we are PunkAmerica or not.

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Joyce, thank you. Although the information of late is not what I’ve been hoping for the clarity you provide us with is more in the positive and gives me hope regarding the understanding we can see more clearly. That is a place to connect with and find ways to benefit from the knowledge and move in the direction of lifting ourselves toward positive growth.Those who work against the principles are against the majority as they are afraid of losing either their wealth or the possibility of wealth yet to come. To them so as not to be forced to turn it over to all and to care for what we need as people working together. They fear that.

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Jamie Raskin captured it well:

‘This is a body where James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, and Thaddeus Stevens once served. I don’t buy the GOP’s whole attack on science, but this week definitely casts doubt on the theory of evolution.’

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That's a good one!

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Thanks Joyce, January 6th both 2021 and 2023 continue to be dark days for democracy but they are also wake up calls that despite their actions the country is pushing back. Yes it’s a war but it’s our time to stand up. Thanks for your continual insights and leadership!

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Senate Majority Leader Schumer summed it up “nicely” in his statement. The silver lining is that perhaps not too much damage will be done by GOP dysfunction and it will help to seal the deal for Dems in 2024.

P.S. I have not played Hearts in many years. Once upon a time it was one of favorite card games.

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The reason not to be completely depressed about tonight’s “election” is that ol’ Kevin and the rest of the Republicans are so damn incompetent. As odious as Trumps four years in office were, I am still shocked they weren’t worse. And the reason they weren’t was due to the Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight’s basic stupidity and incompetence.

I really hope Kevin doesn’t look too closely at his big “victory” tonight.

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Unfortunately, he is a strutting peacock with little brain space. All ego, not substance.

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-->> "with little brain space" <<-- 👏

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ANIMAL HOUSE. We saw inside the Frat Party and heard the immortal line, “You f’d up! You trusted us!!”

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