Floridians have the option to protect abortion during this election by voting “yes” on Amendment 4, which reads, “No law shall prohibit, penalize, delay or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient’s health, as determined by the patient’s healthcare provider.” But apparently, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis doesn’t want Floridians to hear arguments in favor of the measure.
Anyone who thinks winning this election is going to solve things is living in fantasy land. It's unlikely that anyone reading this is going to live to see "democracy restored" and this battle with the MAGA fascist movement ended with their defeat. We're going to have to fight every election like it's the most important election ever, because each one will be. Until they are defeated enough to knock the wind out of their sails, every fight is going to be an existential contest between fascism and freedom. We'll have to win every one of them; they only have to win once.
You are so right in this, Tom. We'te going to have to educate every child in every State in the US. We're going to have to drill the Constitution into ever adult. AND we're going to need a job description for every elected and appointed government official in every State along with an enforceable Code of Ethics for everyone in every government office.
We also need a REAL moral code that has nothing to do with religion or private sexual behavior (except for children)
We also need to redistribute the wealth of this county back to where it was in the late 40's through the mid 70's - except without the bigotry, misogyny and racism that accompanied it.
Education is key, but if they do away with the Department of Education and leave it to the states, the dumbing down will continue and voters will become simple and malleable. We are seeing this already, but only in patches. What happens when only certain books are allowed and discussions of critical thinking are banned? Does no one have the information anymore what the role of VP is? No one seems to argue when VP Harris is blamed for any Biden policies. The last 4 years have not been in her control.
I have pointed this out over and over! Harris was/is the VP! She did not have responsibility for presidential decisions, Biden did. The president tasks the VP with projects and outside of that, a VP has minimal autonomy.
Why Harris herself hasn’t said this in interviews is beyond me.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt began a series of informal radio chats to the American public during a turbulent time in the 1930s. The radio back then was to communicating as Twitter is today. Here is an excerpt:
“My fellow Americans, it is whispered by some that only by abandoning our freedom, our ideals, our way of life, can we rebuild our defenses adequately, can we match the strength of the aggressors. …I do not share these fears.”
Trump demands a quaint, televised, fireside chat to compete with FDR. Here is a sneak preview:
“My friends, Hillary Clinton will never see the inside of the White House again as long as I live.
“You people love me so much that I know you want to keep me as your president for life. The Constitution now allows this extended appointment of the executive branch. Our blessed homeland needs me to lead it. I have authorized The Enabling Act, borrowed from German Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s proposal to restrict powers of the Reichstag in 1933. His SS troops made legislators give up their civil liberties and transfer state powers to the Reich government. I’m pleased to tell you that the Democrats will sign away their legislative powers while my ICE agents surround the House of Representatives. I have the power to dissolve Congress and allow my Cabinet to pass much needed laws to Make America Great Again. And I pledge to you that all fake impeachment activity to convict me has ended.
“I also pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. And we will remove all undocumented immigrants that are poisoning the blood of our country. And we will remove the portrait of African-born Barack Hussein Obama from the White House wall.
“My first act tomorrow will be to have House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Shiftless Adam Schiff picked up for questioning to ascertain their patriotism for the United States.
“I know I’ve been accused of a quid pro quo with Ukraine. There is nothing wrong with finding the truth about liars and cheats like Slow Joe Biden. And there’s nothing wrong asking a nation to help with uncovering wrongdoing by a corrupt man. As your President for Life, I will always tell you the truth. When I make a promise to you, I keep it.
“This concludes the first of my fireside chats. I can’t wait to tell you what I have in store for other scum Trump haters.”
I think because it could come across as a whiny excuse - even though it's true - and her goal is not to blame others. But I agree -- her surrogates could do more of this.
Cathy, very perceptive. I do think she’s btwn a rock etc..as Biden’s VP. Ie re Nit nit Net, who wants the liar 🤥 as Tyrant in Nov., she’d most probably withhold any weapons until he allows far far more aid to Gaza. Plus, to halt negotiate peace re Lebanon. All not at all easy with his determination to stay out of Jail for recent atrocities plus his unlawful conduct before Hamas ever attacked.
Everything from Joyce Vance educates me including her followers’ posts and her very colorful menagerie.
I dont think she can - look at how many times various "interviewers" have asked her what she would do differently than Biden - there is no way for her to go there at this point. Its yet another gotcha question. Of course there are things she would/will do differently - but BIDEN IS STILL PRESIDENT! She would be undermining him and thats a road she doesnt want to go down at this point. At least it appears that way to me.
Simple and malleable. You nailed it. JD Vance may lack basic social skills, but he's just smooth enough to pull up in his van and say, "hey little girl, want some candy" and many will climb in. It appears the Rs don't care what t$$$$ says any more, because he ISN'T GOING TO BE PRESIDENT ANYWAY. Are we paying enough attention to JD? t$$$$ wins and resigns, Vance pardons, musk and thiel take over, and everyone's happy. Except for us and the world. Simple and malleable.
Bonnie Even now only ‘certain books’ are permitted in state schools. In Social Studies, publishers create books that will be accepted in large states such as TX and CA, as well as FL and some southern sites. The ‘selective editing’ is absurd and wrong, BUT publisher will cater to the politics of state school authorities.
When I taught 8th grade US History in California, way too many years ago, if a student did not pass a test on the Constitution they could not go on to the next grade. At that time I thought it a bit much but now not so much. Can’t count on our politicians or SCOTUS to not politicize it.
Leanne I taught the Constitution at community college from 1992 to 2013. The phrase ‘checks and balances’ was a mystery to almost all students who had taken two years of high school American history. Their knowledge and understanding of the 1st & 2nd Amendment was almost nonexistent.
And education -- history, civics, and the humanities - and especially critical thinking. The image of the 'rugged individual' in America has turned into the "me, me, me" American where blaming another and discriminating against them is how one gets ahead.
Cindy When I taught ECONOMICS FROM FEUDALISM TO THE PRESENT at community college (1992-2013) I devoted the first day on how economics affected them personally.Credit cards and all that jazz. I also said that my taxes were subsidizing their education, and it they didn’t bust their butts, I would seek to reduce my taxes for their education.
Also, virtually none of my students were numeric. In one exhibit I was deliberately off by 000 and no one noticed it.
While I completely understand what is motivating your reply, you also have to realize that much of what you are espousing is very close to what any authoritarian would also preach - making sure everyone sees things in a certain way. The question, of course, is whose view of the Constitution, whose moral code, whose code of ethics, whose version of a job description. Today, as it has been at least since the Marshall Court took unto itself the right of judicial review, even the several Justices of the Supreme Court cannot always agree on what the Constitution says, sometimes quite widely disagreeing even among themselves. This then 'trickles down’ to all the rest of it.
Mandatory redistribution of wealth is right out of the communist playbook. All you have to do is substitute land for financial wealth and you have exactly what Lenin did in Russia.
Understand that I’m not at all suggesting that you hold either authoritarian or communist views, but rather that sometimes the imagined cure can turn out to be as bad as the disease.
We were designed to be that nation, the first on earth, in which multiple varying and sometimes even contradictory views on nearly everything could co-exist as long as we all understood that co-existence itself to be the goal, and not the achievement of any single one of our varying visions of it.
The Founders envisioned a ‘republic of virtue’ in which ‘We the People’ could would consistently place the needs of the nation as a whole at least on an equal par with the rights of individuals. If either one became predominant, we'd likely fail the test they set us. It is a remarkably delicate balance which we consistently failed to achieve until the 14th Amendment ended slavery, the 19th gave the franchise to women, and the Civil Rights and Voting Acts tried to assure total equality among all Americans. Since that ‘high-water’ mark, the Republican Party has been trying to dismantle it in favor of a more restrictive vision of what constitutes American and thus also what is is to be a ‘true' American.
Historically they have not been alone in this endeavor. Even a cursory ramble over some of the rhetoric from the election of 1800 would reveal that significant differences in that vision were already tearing us apart. It was the birth of our binary political party system, the one primary aspect of our current and past political scene not envisioned by the Founders, who eschewed the development of formal ‘factions’ (as they called them), understanding that loyalty to party instead of country was a slippery slope, down which they then sent us despite that understanding.
I am not standing here with any substantial answers; only saying that as long as enough of us fail to understand the exceptional complexity of what we were designed to be, we will never come close to achieving that design. Our Constitution was a first attempt at setting up and putting into operation an ongoing political experiment unique in human history, to my mind the most crucial ever attempted. Compared to all the other ways of governing ourselves we’d tried since the Sumerians built the first great cities and ‘the kingship descended from heaven', ours is the most extraordinary, the most difficult, but also as Lincoln understood it, ‘the last best hope of earth’.
It’s all there in his Gettysburg Address, the one American document every one of us ought to read and ponder at least once a day. He knew, perhaps better than any other American who ever lived that ‘as a nation of free men, we shall live through all time, or die by suicide."
Mandatory redistribution of wealth is right out of the communist playbook.
That is bullsh^t. Progressive taxes are a mandatory redistribution of wealth. Government providing programs for the public good such as health, education, social services, infrastructure based on those taxes arer why governments exist. Americans dont like taxes because 1) they get little benefit from them compared to social democtartic countries 2) they are afraid people they consider their inferiors will benefit from tax funded programs ans 3) they are ignorant of and therefore frightened of words like comminism and socialism.
The real moral code is easy - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The hard part is teaching people that 'others' means all others. Education, as you and others have noted, is the key and the battle will never end while we live.
You’re right. Project 2025 is just one election away. It will always be lurking in the background. We’re going to have to get tougher, smarter and I hate to say it but meaner as well. The other side has been at this a very long time and has huge resources behind it.
Well saidTC. It’s amazing to witness the rapid descent into fascism that so many politicians across America are willing to adopt. Where does this urge come from? Why are there so many sheep. Thanks to those who are fighting, daily!
True, true, true! Everyone should read this week’s The New Yorker that has Alex Nalvany on the cover. It contains his prison diaries, well worth reading since it constitutes a testament on dying for what you believe. It is one of the most inspiring documents I have ever read.
Talk about inspiration—Navalny’s widow was on Rachel Maddow last night. She had his memoir published and will carry on his mission despite a warrant out for her arrest ordered by Putin. What a beautiful gutsy lady….
… Amazing folk artist Joni Mitchell returned to the stage at age 80 and got a standing ovation from the crowd when she said, “Fuck Trump!” So many great songs, but I think my favorites are ‘Both Sides Now’ and ‘Help Me.’ Millennials, listen to those two songs and fall in love with Joni like I did.
We won’t be safe as a country/society until every last MAGA in Congress is voted out. Shame on the voters of
this country for continuing to elect people who are against their own best interests. Shame on the selfishness of not being able to see beyond their own immediate gratification. (Mostly imagined!)
When I listen to people who support the felon I am astounded and realize they are indeed cult members in every sense of the definition. Not a one I have heard has an original thought…they are parroting. It is both sad and terrifying.
Hearing the speaker of the house the other day denying everything that the felon has said recently, I was struck once again by his Christian nationalist viewpoint. It is so dangerous! As Claire Macaskill said on MSNBC the other day, Johnson needs to review his Bible studies regarding “thou shalt not bear false witness.”
Christine.....Have you checked in on IHIPNEWS??? Two heroic Democratic women living in the midst of Christian Nationalism Insanity and keeping it real........"Moses Mike " totally
You're right. Trump is mortal. But Project 2025 will live on. The shades of Naziism are terrifying. And what scares me is that there are at least 40 million of my fellow Americans who think Trump, Project 2025, Vance, Musk, Thiel, Carlson, Bannon, and Murdoch are the leaders they want.
I agree. US political history has many examples of the issues that are facing voters today and how former administrations/political parties have addressed them. Too many of the issues we see discussed by the candidates require multiple years to implement - yet we are to think it can be accomplished in as little as four. We need to do a better job of continuity in government, meaning that successor administrations will continue and improve on programs already in place. The ACA as one example - why do we feel we have to end it and come up with something different? It's successful. Why can't the Republicans simply work to improve it - make it better - and take credit for that, rather than tear it down? One has to wonder.
There has always been a fascist/authoritarian/anti-democracy element in our country. It seems that it cannot be erased. But it can be defeated, as we have done again and again. Today we are facing what appears to be the most significant challenge to our democratic government. But we will beat it back into the bushes where it will hide until it feels it is time, again, to raise its ugly head.
I am so concerned as a doctor that lay-people can throw around 6 weeks, 15 weeks, 22 weeks etc. - it's different in every state because it is arbitrary and imposed by politicians. I am very worried about legalilty of abortions, but I would like to hear the argument on a bigger picture - that of politicians nosing into medical decisions at all. There are so many diseases and circumstances that can have religious nuances, for example, if Christian Scientists would have their way, no one would go to a doctor at all. What about Seventh Day Adventists and being a vegetarian? What about Jehovah's Witnesses not allowing transfusions? Death with Dignity? Assisted death? Choosing palliative care over resuscitation? Stem cell treatments? Genetic testing? This is the party that used to complain about big government, and they feel entitled to enter our most private moments and decisions. What next - who we marry or divorce? How many children we must have? We are saying that any bishop or politician can draw lines based on what they think is good vs. evil based on which religion? And who's whims? The implications are very much more than abortion, and if they get permission to put these restrictions on women, they will not stop their forming of our social fabric at every turn.
Thank you. Please tell me, does the Hippocratic Oath mean nothing? If I was a doctor and had to choose between saving a woman’s life and getting arrested, I would sue the state based on the oath I took. Imagine the protests across the country if I got locked up!
Sadly I don't see the protests you imagine......right now "the bad guys" are sort of in charge. Sue the state in which abortion is illegal ? The courts aren't exactly working right now.
Never substantiated belief based on the invention of religion by men as a tool of control has been used to subjugate women since its' inception.
The only hope we and possibly the rest of the world has is that women in the privacy of the voting booth will cast their ballots in favor of both their own and their daughters' interest.
Men in general will not do much of anything that may upset the applecart which has kept them in clover since the Mayflower dropped anchor.
I wonder if there is a viable legal claim, demanding DeSantis repay the state for the expenses incurred for his illegal state campaign to suppress speech. Certainly he knew or should have known that the ordered use of state funds to suppress speech was unconstitutional.
I was wondering the same thing, Mitchell. I haven't looked at the pleadings to see what the plaintiffs asked for. So I don't know if reimbursement, and/or attys fees and costs were requested but didn't get reported. I'm a native Floridian and would love for him to have to repay the State every dime he took to try and trick Floridians into voting "no" on one of the amendments that he never wanted to get onto the ballot.
It's also standard practice for him, after these amendments pass resoundingly, to then coerce state legislative leaders to find ways to overturn the people's voices. So, at a 60% favorable polling rate, a person of normal intelligence would know he doesn't have a good chance of changing many minds. Why waste the money? His imperious coercion with legislators then makes them look bad to their constituents and they're, naturally, going to be reluctant to act. Not very clued-in to mathematical probabilities, human nature, or smart politics, in general.
After two powerful hurricanes back to back, our governor refused Kamala Harris's call to see if we needed help because he said he felt it sounded "political". He also refused to meet with President Biden when he came to Florida recently to look at the hurricane Milton damage so federal assistance could be initiated for Milton's path. Instead, he went around them and called a federal contact person to set up federal assistance that way. The President still has to see the damage anyway to initiate the actual funding. So publicly hateful at a time when Floridians needed to see cooperation, leadership, and maybe some maturity, rather than striking a pose for another presidential run. Remember his campaign where he demonstrated pained-looking fake smiles and how he didn't take well to talking with people? Yeah, sounds like someone can't comprehend that he isn't making smart career choices.
As the GOP operates…they are above the law. I don’t think the constitution matters much unless it supports their objectives. That is exactly how they interpret it with the permission of SCOTUS.
Oooohhhh I just love that one of DeSantis’ own people has ragged on him! We all know that Ron has cloaked himself in protective gear and hired the “best” to protect him. Won’t matter much when Florida passes the right to have an abortion and Debbie Muscarsel-Powell beats Scott at the polls. We are getting towards the wire now. All hands on deck!
I would argue Ohio is the laboratory. A friend says Arkansas is. Others say Idaho owns the title. I can hear Texas shouting their leadership. We have a LOT of work to do!
Herritage has deep roots in the pain/total control based spin off from the Opus Die. religous cult that began in Spain during the late 1920's. Scarry stuff........thus we have the Orange Melting Pumpin cult that wears diapers and uses a communal "piss pot.".
Let me shout out to Chief Judge Mark Eaton Walker, Northern District of FL. He was one of my student assistants for 2 years. Comes from a good , hardworking family & that kid was something to behold. He was amazing. He was fascinating to watch with other students. Every thought process he had came loaded with honesty, integrity & fairness. He spoke his views, including how he came to his views. The kids really listened to him. And he never took advantage of his influence. He was always for the underdog. Mark was a joy, a gift. He is the most respected student to graduate from our little high school west of Orlando. Did I mention he was funny? But, not at anyone’s expense. He was respectful to everyone. He was a blessing! I could not be more proud of him.
Just had to share that with you. He made me glad I was a teacher. That was 38 years ago. God is good.
Well shucks, looks like my timing was near perfection. Ron DeSantis has abused his authority as Gov. of Florida for far too long, and Floridians should call him on the carpet for it. I am happy for the women in Florida and the judge's admonishment of DeSantis. Good the guy who sent out the batch of letters placed the blame at Ron's feet, too. It takes a great deal of internal fortitude to stand against these MAGA-nuts and DeSantanists. I'm happy to support their efforts. I yield back my time.
The federal judges in Florida's Northern District are very familiar with Gov. Run Disaster. Thankfully, they're on to him, as is the Federal 11th Circuit. That tells you a lot right there.
Thank you, Joyce, for bringing us this news. Thank you, Mr Wilson for havi9ng the courage to resign, and special thanks to Judge Walker for doing your job and upholding the Constitution as it is written. Tougjh patooties to DeSatan, you are as unlikable as JD.
Beside DeSantis there is Senator Rick Scott. That is why it’s imperative to vote BLUE up and down the ballot. We need Debbie Muscarsel-Powell to beat Scott as well as Amendment Four to pass. It seems to me there should be some type of punishment for using taxpayer money to ban the ads. DeSantis has his eyes on the next presidential race. He has been using Project 2025 playbook here in Florida. Thank goodness for John Wilson and Judge Walker this time, but I’m afraid the circus will have more acts. I’m afraid this won’t end until DeSantis is up for re-election and he has a strong opponent.
I have my VOTE YES on FOUR yard sign proudly displayed next to my HARRIS-WALZ sign.
I’m a Florida voter, and I voted YES on Amendment 4 yesterday, the first day of early voting. I was surprised and heartened at the turnout at my little remote early voting site. Oh, I voted for Harris/Walz, too LOL. Let’s go, Florida! 🌊
Joyce, Thank you for your timely article on Florida’s abortion initiative. I am currently reading Jessica Valenti’s excellent book, Abortion. I consider myself well versed on the abortion issues and current events but still I’m learning a lot from reading Valenti’s book. The extremists are full of tricks and lies to deny women access to abortion, IVF, and birth control and Valenti lays it out well.
It’s clear to me that the (mostly white male Republican) lawmakers who pass abortion bans have done so without taking into consider women’s best interests at all. In fact, lawmakers were told by medical experts that women would be harmed by restricting abortion access and they did it anyway. Let that sink in. Knowing abortion bans will cause women to suffer & die, Republicans STILL passed abortion bans.
Even before reading Valenti’s book, every time I heard someone profess to support abortion bans because (they say) they are “pro-life” I knew their bans were NOT designed to protect ANY woman’s life. In practice, as we have seen, the bans mean LET WOMEN SUFFER & DIE. The extremists will deny it, of course, just as they deny and minimize the horror stories we all hear from women who nearly died because they were either denied abortions or forced to suffer and wait until their health deteriorated.
If Republicans cared they would fix it. They won’t fix it, because they believe the bans are working as intended. I believe they won’t be happy until there is a national ban but they’re trying not to bring it up before the election since most Americans support access to abortions and they think we’ll forget. (Fat chance.) In the meantime, Trump brags he ended Roe and women suffer and die because of Trump abortion bans. Nobody wants this. (We also don’t want to hear from Trump about the size of a famous golfer’s penis. Ick.)
Republicans cannot be trusted to protect women, because they hear the same horror stories we all hear and they refuse to allow doctors to provide life-saving medical care EVEN WHEN there is a nonviable fetus (or one that cannot long survive after birth).
The bans are all about controlling women. In some cases, it’s about punishing women or girls (for sex out of wedlock or for married sex for pleasure).
In states with abortion bans, doctors operate in an environment of fear. Fear they will go to prison, be fined or lose their license for providing women with an abortion before the law allows. Doctors were trained to provide medical care (including abortion care) based on the needs of their patient. But abortion bans don’t allow doctors to rely on their medical training and experience. So to avoid legal consequences, doctors must wait and watch their patient’s health deteriorate until the lawyers say the law allows doctors to intervene LEGALLY. By this time, the woman may be seriously ill or dying. In fact, that’s what some of the laws require: a woman must be near death to begin to receive abortion care. (That’s cruel.) Medicine isn’t an exact science so if the doctor and lawyer don’t time it just right, the woman could wind up dead. Or permanently impaired (think brain damage, unable to get pregnant again, other serious impairments). If she doesn’t die, the needless wait will mean her recovery will take longer, be more expensive (ICU ain’t cheap!!), she’ll miss more work, and she may not fully recover.
Women who want access to abortion aren’t asking for anything special; we just want control over our own bodies, you know, the right men have.
I trust women, not lawmakers. It’s why after the horrors caused by abortion bans, I’ve concluded that reinstating Roe isn’t enough. What we need are laws which support ABORTION ON DEMAND, WITHOUT APOLOGY. Women know what is best for themselves and their families. Republican lawmakers sure don’t care about women.
Vote Harris and Democrats, up & down the ballot, to restore women’s reproductive rights and protect democracy for us all.
I trust women on both sides of the aisle vote for both themselves and women too young to vote, as we men do little to understand what women face let alone cast a ballot which would assist them.
Seriously, it should be required that boys attend a class which educates them about women. Like most men in the world, not just Republican lawmakers, we have had our heads in the sand too long and this ignorance of half our population has done nothing to make our nation better.
Do you think DeSantis (or countless others we could identify) actually attended classes to obtain that law degree (perhaps he sent a clone to his classes) or actually took any constitutional law classes? Asking for a friend!
Fakebook has once again removed tonight's post as SPAM. They don't touch the posts I report as spam, harassment, threats of violence, hate speech, and false information but take down your post.
In 1985 or 85,this young woman I knew back then,found out she was pregnant,had all the customary blood work and a pelvic exam/pap done,and about a week later,the doctors office calls her,saying for her to come in right away.Turns out,they found out she had late stage cervical cancer.To save her life,she had to have a hysterectomy which also meant her baby was aborted.Even then,the doctors understood what was at stake,and the law had no space in that conversation in the way it does now.Frighteningly,in some places today,she would have been told nothing could be done until literally the last minute,if even at all.
I have been talking about stuff like this for years and years,and everything I saw coming and others did too,is happening before our eyes.I am scared witless for my daughters and especially my granddaughters,most of whom are in their early to late teens,and still in school.I worry about how many things could randomly happen to them, whether or not they want a child,and the callousness of heartless idiots like DeSatan,who literally don't care who lives or dies,but he should have the last word.
I look forward to throwing his sorry ass to the curb in the next couple years.Him and his whole herd of braindead idiots with him.And I don't want to hear about"God's will"from any of them,they sure as hell have no room to talk to anyone about it.
Anyone who thinks winning this election is going to solve things is living in fantasy land. It's unlikely that anyone reading this is going to live to see "democracy restored" and this battle with the MAGA fascist movement ended with their defeat. We're going to have to fight every election like it's the most important election ever, because each one will be. Until they are defeated enough to knock the wind out of their sails, every fight is going to be an existential contest between fascism and freedom. We'll have to win every one of them; they only have to win once.
You are so right in this, Tom. We'te going to have to educate every child in every State in the US. We're going to have to drill the Constitution into ever adult. AND we're going to need a job description for every elected and appointed government official in every State along with an enforceable Code of Ethics for everyone in every government office.
We also need a REAL moral code that has nothing to do with religion or private sexual behavior (except for children)
We also need to redistribute the wealth of this county back to where it was in the late 40's through the mid 70's - except without the bigotry, misogyny and racism that accompanied it.
And that takes time and money.
Education is key, but if they do away with the Department of Education and leave it to the states, the dumbing down will continue and voters will become simple and malleable. We are seeing this already, but only in patches. What happens when only certain books are allowed and discussions of critical thinking are banned? Does no one have the information anymore what the role of VP is? No one seems to argue when VP Harris is blamed for any Biden policies. The last 4 years have not been in her control.
I have pointed this out over and over! Harris was/is the VP! She did not have responsibility for presidential decisions, Biden did. The president tasks the VP with projects and outside of that, a VP has minimal autonomy.
Why Harris herself hasn’t said this in interviews is beyond me.
Reason #1 that she hasn’t shouted it: She has to walk a fine line between backing and refuting Biden Administration policies.
When confronted with "what has Harris done", throw it back and say "what did Pence do", and you'll hear, silence.
The VP serves at the pleasure of the president, and is the understudy in case they are assassinated or drops dead.
Truman, Johnson and Ford are examples.
The thought of JD, with his bizarre view of the country, as president, should scare everyone.
A Fireside Chat
(From 'Donald's Vanity Tantrums')
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt began a series of informal radio chats to the American public during a turbulent time in the 1930s. The radio back then was to communicating as Twitter is today. Here is an excerpt:
“My fellow Americans, it is whispered by some that only by abandoning our freedom, our ideals, our way of life, can we rebuild our defenses adequately, can we match the strength of the aggressors. …I do not share these fears.”
Trump demands a quaint, televised, fireside chat to compete with FDR. Here is a sneak preview:
“My friends, Hillary Clinton will never see the inside of the White House again as long as I live.
“You people love me so much that I know you want to keep me as your president for life. The Constitution now allows this extended appointment of the executive branch. Our blessed homeland needs me to lead it. I have authorized The Enabling Act, borrowed from German Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s proposal to restrict powers of the Reichstag in 1933. His SS troops made legislators give up their civil liberties and transfer state powers to the Reich government. I’m pleased to tell you that the Democrats will sign away their legislative powers while my ICE agents surround the House of Representatives. I have the power to dissolve Congress and allow my Cabinet to pass much needed laws to Make America Great Again. And I pledge to you that all fake impeachment activity to convict me has ended.
“I also pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. And we will remove all undocumented immigrants that are poisoning the blood of our country. And we will remove the portrait of African-born Barack Hussein Obama from the White House wall.
“My first act tomorrow will be to have House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Shiftless Adam Schiff picked up for questioning to ascertain their patriotism for the United States.
“I know I’ve been accused of a quid pro quo with Ukraine. There is nothing wrong with finding the truth about liars and cheats like Slow Joe Biden. And there’s nothing wrong asking a nation to help with uncovering wrongdoing by a corrupt man. As your President for Life, I will always tell you the truth. When I make a promise to you, I keep it.
“This concludes the first of my fireside chats. I can’t wait to tell you what I have in store for other scum Trump haters.”
I think because it could come across as a whiny excuse - even though it's true - and her goal is not to blame others. But I agree -- her surrogates could do more of this.
Cathy, very perceptive. I do think she’s btwn a rock etc..as Biden’s VP. Ie re Nit nit Net, who wants the liar 🤥 as Tyrant in Nov., she’d most probably withhold any weapons until he allows far far more aid to Gaza. Plus, to halt negotiate peace re Lebanon. All not at all easy with his determination to stay out of Jail for recent atrocities plus his unlawful conduct before Hamas ever attacked.
Everything from Joyce Vance educates me including her followers’ posts and her very colorful menagerie.
I don't think that she has to SHOUT it...she can say it without back stabbing Joe!
I dont think she can - look at how many times various "interviewers" have asked her what she would do differently than Biden - there is no way for her to go there at this point. Its yet another gotcha question. Of course there are things she would/will do differently - but BIDEN IS STILL PRESIDENT! She would be undermining him and thats a road she doesnt want to go down at this point. At least it appears that way to me.
Simple and malleable. You nailed it. JD Vance may lack basic social skills, but he's just smooth enough to pull up in his van and say, "hey little girl, want some candy" and many will climb in. It appears the Rs don't care what t$$$$ says any more, because he ISN'T GOING TO BE PRESIDENT ANYWAY. Are we paying enough attention to JD? t$$$$ wins and resigns, Vance pardons, musk and thiel take over, and everyone's happy. Except for us and the world. Simple and malleable.
AS the saying goes, don't look now, but "voters will become simple and malleable" happened about 40 years ago.
Bonnie Even now only ‘certain books’ are permitted in state schools. In Social Studies, publishers create books that will be accepted in large states such as TX and CA, as well as FL and some southern sites. The ‘selective editing’ is absurd and wrong, BUT publisher will cater to the politics of state school authorities.
When I taught 8th grade US History in California, way too many years ago, if a student did not pass a test on the Constitution they could not go on to the next grade. At that time I thought it a bit much but now not so much. Can’t count on our politicians or SCOTUS to not politicize it.
Leanne I taught the Constitution at community college from 1992 to 2013. The phrase ‘checks and balances’ was a mystery to almost all students who had taken two years of high school American history. Their knowledge and understanding of the 1st & 2nd Amendment was almost nonexistent.
And education -- history, civics, and the humanities - and especially critical thinking. The image of the 'rugged individual' in America has turned into the "me, me, me" American where blaming another and discriminating against them is how one gets ahead.
I think that Economics 101 should be taught in HS. So many Americans are clueless about how our economy works.
Cindy When I taught ECONOMICS FROM FEUDALISM TO THE PRESENT at community college (1992-2013) I devoted the first day on how economics affected them personally.Credit cards and all that jazz. I also said that my taxes were subsidizing their education, and it they didn’t bust their butts, I would seek to reduce my taxes for their education.
Also, virtually none of my students were numeric. In one exhibit I was deliberately off by 000 and no one noticed it.
Agreed, Laurie. We need a nation of people who accept responsibility for their own behavior instead of blaming "others"
A "REAL moral code"??? Government has no business dictating or enforcing morality. That's exactly what DeSantis and the Republicans are trying to do.
While I completely understand what is motivating your reply, you also have to realize that much of what you are espousing is very close to what any authoritarian would also preach - making sure everyone sees things in a certain way. The question, of course, is whose view of the Constitution, whose moral code, whose code of ethics, whose version of a job description. Today, as it has been at least since the Marshall Court took unto itself the right of judicial review, even the several Justices of the Supreme Court cannot always agree on what the Constitution says, sometimes quite widely disagreeing even among themselves. This then 'trickles down’ to all the rest of it.
Mandatory redistribution of wealth is right out of the communist playbook. All you have to do is substitute land for financial wealth and you have exactly what Lenin did in Russia.
Understand that I’m not at all suggesting that you hold either authoritarian or communist views, but rather that sometimes the imagined cure can turn out to be as bad as the disease.
We were designed to be that nation, the first on earth, in which multiple varying and sometimes even contradictory views on nearly everything could co-exist as long as we all understood that co-existence itself to be the goal, and not the achievement of any single one of our varying visions of it.
The Founders envisioned a ‘republic of virtue’ in which ‘We the People’ could would consistently place the needs of the nation as a whole at least on an equal par with the rights of individuals. If either one became predominant, we'd likely fail the test they set us. It is a remarkably delicate balance which we consistently failed to achieve until the 14th Amendment ended slavery, the 19th gave the franchise to women, and the Civil Rights and Voting Acts tried to assure total equality among all Americans. Since that ‘high-water’ mark, the Republican Party has been trying to dismantle it in favor of a more restrictive vision of what constitutes American and thus also what is is to be a ‘true' American.
Historically they have not been alone in this endeavor. Even a cursory ramble over some of the rhetoric from the election of 1800 would reveal that significant differences in that vision were already tearing us apart. It was the birth of our binary political party system, the one primary aspect of our current and past political scene not envisioned by the Founders, who eschewed the development of formal ‘factions’ (as they called them), understanding that loyalty to party instead of country was a slippery slope, down which they then sent us despite that understanding.
I am not standing here with any substantial answers; only saying that as long as enough of us fail to understand the exceptional complexity of what we were designed to be, we will never come close to achieving that design. Our Constitution was a first attempt at setting up and putting into operation an ongoing political experiment unique in human history, to my mind the most crucial ever attempted. Compared to all the other ways of governing ourselves we’d tried since the Sumerians built the first great cities and ‘the kingship descended from heaven', ours is the most extraordinary, the most difficult, but also as Lincoln understood it, ‘the last best hope of earth’.
It’s all there in his Gettysburg Address, the one American document every one of us ought to read and ponder at least once a day. He knew, perhaps better than any other American who ever lived that ‘as a nation of free men, we shall live through all time, or die by suicide."
Mandatory redistribution of wealth is right out of the communist playbook.
That is bullsh^t. Progressive taxes are a mandatory redistribution of wealth. Government providing programs for the public good such as health, education, social services, infrastructure based on those taxes arer why governments exist. Americans dont like taxes because 1) they get little benefit from them compared to social democtartic countries 2) they are afraid people they consider their inferiors will benefit from tax funded programs ans 3) they are ignorant of and therefore frightened of words like comminism and socialism.
Does depend on what kind of wealth, who’s redistributing it, and why.
The real moral code is easy - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The hard part is teaching people that 'others' means all others. Education, as you and others have noted, is the key and the battle will never end while we live.
You’re right. Project 2025 is just one election away. It will always be lurking in the background. We’re going to have to get tougher, smarter and I hate to say it but meaner as well. The other side has been at this a very long time and has huge resources behind it.
Well saidTC. It’s amazing to witness the rapid descent into fascism that so many politicians across America are willing to adopt. Where does this urge come from? Why are there so many sheep. Thanks to those who are fighting, daily!
Power is more addictive than opium.
Do sheep have power, Dotty?
I was replying to Bruce's comment about politicians, not the sheep by which I assume you mean t's voters.
I got that Dotty. I was actually referring to the politicians! As the sheep.
Propaganda works
True, true, true! Everyone should read this week’s The New Yorker that has Alex Nalvany on the cover. It contains his prison diaries, well worth reading since it constitutes a testament on dying for what you believe. It is one of the most inspiring documents I have ever read.
Talk about inspiration—Navalny’s widow was on Rachel Maddow last night. She had his memoir published and will carry on his mission despite a warrant out for her arrest ordered by Putin. What a beautiful gutsy lady….
… Amazing folk artist Joni Mitchell returned to the stage at age 80 and got a standing ovation from the crowd when she said, “Fuck Trump!” So many great songs, but I think my favorites are ‘Both Sides Now’ and ‘Help Me.’ Millennials, listen to those two songs and fall in love with Joni like I did.
We won’t be safe as a country/society until every last MAGA in Congress is voted out. Shame on the voters of
this country for continuing to elect people who are against their own best interests. Shame on the selfishness of not being able to see beyond their own immediate gratification. (Mostly imagined!)
When I listen to people who support the felon I am astounded and realize they are indeed cult members in every sense of the definition. Not a one I have heard has an original thought…they are parroting. It is both sad and terrifying.
Hearing the speaker of the house the other day denying everything that the felon has said recently, I was struck once again by his Christian nationalist viewpoint. It is so dangerous! As Claire Macaskill said on MSNBC the other day, Johnson needs to review his Bible studies regarding “thou shalt not bear false witness.”
Christine.....Have you checked in on IHIPNEWS??? Two heroic Democratic women living in the midst of Christian Nationalism Insanity and keeping it real........"Moses Mike " totally
needs a biblical wake up call.......
You're right. Trump is mortal. But Project 2025 will live on. The shades of Naziism are terrifying. And what scares me is that there are at least 40 million of my fellow Americans who think Trump, Project 2025, Vance, Musk, Thiel, Carlson, Bannon, and Murdoch are the leaders they want.
I agree. US political history has many examples of the issues that are facing voters today and how former administrations/political parties have addressed them. Too many of the issues we see discussed by the candidates require multiple years to implement - yet we are to think it can be accomplished in as little as four. We need to do a better job of continuity in government, meaning that successor administrations will continue and improve on programs already in place. The ACA as one example - why do we feel we have to end it and come up with something different? It's successful. Why can't the Republicans simply work to improve it - make it better - and take credit for that, rather than tear it down? One has to wonder.
It took WWII to knock out fascism previously. It always returns.
Consequently, courts and judges, as well.
Dems need to fight the contest with the same rules the opposition is using. Not those rules the Repubs abandoned in 1983.
There has always been a fascist/authoritarian/anti-democracy element in our country. It seems that it cannot be erased. But it can be defeated, as we have done again and again. Today we are facing what appears to be the most significant challenge to our democratic government. But we will beat it back into the bushes where it will hide until it feels it is time, again, to raise its ugly head.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-150362305
Read this very prescient article
I am so concerned as a doctor that lay-people can throw around 6 weeks, 15 weeks, 22 weeks etc. - it's different in every state because it is arbitrary and imposed by politicians. I am very worried about legalilty of abortions, but I would like to hear the argument on a bigger picture - that of politicians nosing into medical decisions at all. There are so many diseases and circumstances that can have religious nuances, for example, if Christian Scientists would have their way, no one would go to a doctor at all. What about Seventh Day Adventists and being a vegetarian? What about Jehovah's Witnesses not allowing transfusions? Death with Dignity? Assisted death? Choosing palliative care over resuscitation? Stem cell treatments? Genetic testing? This is the party that used to complain about big government, and they feel entitled to enter our most private moments and decisions. What next - who we marry or divorce? How many children we must have? We are saying that any bishop or politician can draw lines based on what they think is good vs. evil based on which religion? And who's whims? The implications are very much more than abortion, and if they get permission to put these restrictions on women, they will not stop their forming of our social fabric at every turn.
Thank you. Please tell me, does the Hippocratic Oath mean nothing? If I was a doctor and had to choose between saving a woman’s life and getting arrested, I would sue the state based on the oath I took. Imagine the protests across the country if I got locked up!
Sadly I don't see the protests you imagine......right now "the bad guys" are sort of in charge. Sue the state in which abortion is illegal ? The courts aren't exactly working right now.
I would still prefer to fulfill my oath and go to prison than send a woman away who came to me for health care….
Thank you, Doc. If a hospital can recognize a JW refusal of transfusion, why can on NOT recognize a woman’s choice to terminate a pregnancy?
Thank you for expanding on the dangers of this movement!
Never substantiated belief based on the invention of religion by men as a tool of control has been used to subjugate women since its' inception.
The only hope we and possibly the rest of the world has is that women in the privacy of the voting booth will cast their ballots in favor of both their own and their daughters' interest.
Men in general will not do much of anything that may upset the applecart which has kept them in clover since the Mayflower dropped anchor.
I wonder if there is a viable legal claim, demanding DeSantis repay the state for the expenses incurred for his illegal state campaign to suppress speech. Certainly he knew or should have known that the ordered use of state funds to suppress speech was unconstitutional.
Did the state get reimbursed for his immigrant busing stunt?
I was wondering the same thing, Mitchell. I haven't looked at the pleadings to see what the plaintiffs asked for. So I don't know if reimbursement, and/or attys fees and costs were requested but didn't get reported. I'm a native Floridian and would love for him to have to repay the State every dime he took to try and trick Floridians into voting "no" on one of the amendments that he never wanted to get onto the ballot.
It's also standard practice for him, after these amendments pass resoundingly, to then coerce state legislative leaders to find ways to overturn the people's voices. So, at a 60% favorable polling rate, a person of normal intelligence would know he doesn't have a good chance of changing many minds. Why waste the money? His imperious coercion with legislators then makes them look bad to their constituents and they're, naturally, going to be reluctant to act. Not very clued-in to mathematical probabilities, human nature, or smart politics, in general.
After two powerful hurricanes back to back, our governor refused Kamala Harris's call to see if we needed help because he said he felt it sounded "political". He also refused to meet with President Biden when he came to Florida recently to look at the hurricane Milton damage so federal assistance could be initiated for Milton's path. Instead, he went around them and called a federal contact person to set up federal assistance that way. The President still has to see the damage anyway to initiate the actual funding. So publicly hateful at a time when Floridians needed to see cooperation, leadership, and maybe some maturity, rather than striking a pose for another presidential run. Remember his campaign where he demonstrated pained-looking fake smiles and how he didn't take well to talking with people? Yeah, sounds like someone can't comprehend that he isn't making smart career choices.
But like his orange cohort, he doesn’t care.
As the GOP operates…they are above the law. I don’t think the constitution matters much unless it supports their objectives. That is exactly how they interpret it with the permission of SCOTUS.
Oooohhhh I just love that one of DeSantis’ own people has ragged on him! We all know that Ron has cloaked himself in protective gear and hired the “best” to protect him. Won’t matter much when Florida passes the right to have an abortion and Debbie Muscarsel-Powell beats Scott at the polls. We are getting towards the wire now. All hands on deck!
In Republican America, the states are laboratories of fascism.
Florida is at the top of that experiment. DeSantis enjoys the cruelty that he suppresses his constituents with. He doesn't hide it.
I would argue Ohio is the laboratory. A friend says Arkansas is. Others say Idaho owns the title. I can hear Texas shouting their leadership. We have a LOT of work to do!
Spanish inquisition.
Herritage has deep roots in the pain/total control based spin off from the Opus Die. religous cult that began in Spain during the late 1920's. Scarry stuff........thus we have the Orange Melting Pumpin cult that wears diapers and uses a communal "piss pot.".
Incubators.
Let me shout out to Chief Judge Mark Eaton Walker, Northern District of FL. He was one of my student assistants for 2 years. Comes from a good , hardworking family & that kid was something to behold. He was amazing. He was fascinating to watch with other students. Every thought process he had came loaded with honesty, integrity & fairness. He spoke his views, including how he came to his views. The kids really listened to him. And he never took advantage of his influence. He was always for the underdog. Mark was a joy, a gift. He is the most respected student to graduate from our little high school west of Orlando. Did I mention he was funny? But, not at anyone’s expense. He was respectful to everyone. He was a blessing! I could not be more proud of him.
Just had to share that with you. He made me glad I was a teacher. That was 38 years ago. God is good.
Well shucks, looks like my timing was near perfection. Ron DeSantis has abused his authority as Gov. of Florida for far too long, and Floridians should call him on the carpet for it. I am happy for the women in Florida and the judge's admonishment of DeSantis. Good the guy who sent out the batch of letters placed the blame at Ron's feet, too. It takes a great deal of internal fortitude to stand against these MAGA-nuts and DeSantanists. I'm happy to support their efforts. I yield back my time.
The federal judges in Florida's Northern District are very familiar with Gov. Run Disaster. Thankfully, they're on to him, as is the Federal 11th Circuit. That tells you a lot right there.
Thank you, Joyce, for bringing us this news. Thank you, Mr Wilson for havi9ng the courage to resign, and special thanks to Judge Walker for doing your job and upholding the Constitution as it is written. Tougjh patooties to DeSatan, you are as unlikable as JD.
Beside DeSantis there is Senator Rick Scott. That is why it’s imperative to vote BLUE up and down the ballot. We need Debbie Muscarsel-Powell to beat Scott as well as Amendment Four to pass. It seems to me there should be some type of punishment for using taxpayer money to ban the ads. DeSantis has his eyes on the next presidential race. He has been using Project 2025 playbook here in Florida. Thank goodness for John Wilson and Judge Walker this time, but I’m afraid the circus will have more acts. I’m afraid this won’t end until DeSantis is up for re-election and he has a strong opponent.
I have my VOTE YES on FOUR yard sign proudly displayed next to my HARRIS-WALZ sign.
You rock 🩵 Monica
I’m a Florida voter, and I voted YES on Amendment 4 yesterday, the first day of early voting. I was surprised and heartened at the turnout at my little remote early voting site. Oh, I voted for Harris/Walz, too LOL. Let’s go, Florida! 🌊
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Unconstitutional coercion by the State of Florida and Gov Desantis. Not surprised.
Joyce, Thank you for your timely article on Florida’s abortion initiative. I am currently reading Jessica Valenti’s excellent book, Abortion. I consider myself well versed on the abortion issues and current events but still I’m learning a lot from reading Valenti’s book. The extremists are full of tricks and lies to deny women access to abortion, IVF, and birth control and Valenti lays it out well.
It’s clear to me that the (mostly white male Republican) lawmakers who pass abortion bans have done so without taking into consider women’s best interests at all. In fact, lawmakers were told by medical experts that women would be harmed by restricting abortion access and they did it anyway. Let that sink in. Knowing abortion bans will cause women to suffer & die, Republicans STILL passed abortion bans.
Even before reading Valenti’s book, every time I heard someone profess to support abortion bans because (they say) they are “pro-life” I knew their bans were NOT designed to protect ANY woman’s life. In practice, as we have seen, the bans mean LET WOMEN SUFFER & DIE. The extremists will deny it, of course, just as they deny and minimize the horror stories we all hear from women who nearly died because they were either denied abortions or forced to suffer and wait until their health deteriorated.
If Republicans cared they would fix it. They won’t fix it, because they believe the bans are working as intended. I believe they won’t be happy until there is a national ban but they’re trying not to bring it up before the election since most Americans support access to abortions and they think we’ll forget. (Fat chance.) In the meantime, Trump brags he ended Roe and women suffer and die because of Trump abortion bans. Nobody wants this. (We also don’t want to hear from Trump about the size of a famous golfer’s penis. Ick.)
Republicans cannot be trusted to protect women, because they hear the same horror stories we all hear and they refuse to allow doctors to provide life-saving medical care EVEN WHEN there is a nonviable fetus (or one that cannot long survive after birth).
The bans are all about controlling women. In some cases, it’s about punishing women or girls (for sex out of wedlock or for married sex for pleasure).
In states with abortion bans, doctors operate in an environment of fear. Fear they will go to prison, be fined or lose their license for providing women with an abortion before the law allows. Doctors were trained to provide medical care (including abortion care) based on the needs of their patient. But abortion bans don’t allow doctors to rely on their medical training and experience. So to avoid legal consequences, doctors must wait and watch their patient’s health deteriorate until the lawyers say the law allows doctors to intervene LEGALLY. By this time, the woman may be seriously ill or dying. In fact, that’s what some of the laws require: a woman must be near death to begin to receive abortion care. (That’s cruel.) Medicine isn’t an exact science so if the doctor and lawyer don’t time it just right, the woman could wind up dead. Or permanently impaired (think brain damage, unable to get pregnant again, other serious impairments). If she doesn’t die, the needless wait will mean her recovery will take longer, be more expensive (ICU ain’t cheap!!), she’ll miss more work, and she may not fully recover.
Women who want access to abortion aren’t asking for anything special; we just want control over our own bodies, you know, the right men have.
I trust women, not lawmakers. It’s why after the horrors caused by abortion bans, I’ve concluded that reinstating Roe isn’t enough. What we need are laws which support ABORTION ON DEMAND, WITHOUT APOLOGY. Women know what is best for themselves and their families. Republican lawmakers sure don’t care about women.
Vote Harris and Democrats, up & down the ballot, to restore women’s reproductive rights and protect democracy for us all.
I trust women on both sides of the aisle vote for both themselves and women too young to vote, as we men do little to understand what women face let alone cast a ballot which would assist them.
Seriously, it should be required that boys attend a class which educates them about women. Like most men in the world, not just Republican lawmakers, we have had our heads in the sand too long and this ignorance of half our population has done nothing to make our nation better.
Do you think DeSantis (or countless others we could identify) actually attended classes to obtain that law degree (perhaps he sent a clone to his classes) or actually took any constitutional law classes? Asking for a friend!
So grateful "we're in this together"!!
They studied the law. Greed and power overcame any commitment to the rule of law.
These MAGA are NOT conservative! What are the “conserving?” Nothing. They wreck things … wrecking is opposite of conserving.
The MAGA are Right Wing Reactionaries
Fascists!
Fakebook has once again removed tonight's post as SPAM. They don't touch the posts I report as spam, harassment, threats of violence, hate speech, and false information but take down your post.
/s/PissedOffOldWoman
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Grrrrr
In 1985 or 85,this young woman I knew back then,found out she was pregnant,had all the customary blood work and a pelvic exam/pap done,and about a week later,the doctors office calls her,saying for her to come in right away.Turns out,they found out she had late stage cervical cancer.To save her life,she had to have a hysterectomy which also meant her baby was aborted.Even then,the doctors understood what was at stake,and the law had no space in that conversation in the way it does now.Frighteningly,in some places today,she would have been told nothing could be done until literally the last minute,if even at all.
I have been talking about stuff like this for years and years,and everything I saw coming and others did too,is happening before our eyes.I am scared witless for my daughters and especially my granddaughters,most of whom are in their early to late teens,and still in school.I worry about how many things could randomly happen to them, whether or not they want a child,and the callousness of heartless idiots like DeSatan,who literally don't care who lives or dies,but he should have the last word.
I look forward to throwing his sorry ass to the curb in the next couple years.Him and his whole herd of braindead idiots with him.And I don't want to hear about"God's will"from any of them,they sure as hell have no room to talk to anyone about it.
Vote YES on 4!!