I agree. I have no public commenting on this but only to hope that this will not result in sympathy votes for Trump. I fear it will and this will add to an already unstable character. And one other thing I believe this attempted assassination has now moved the juice away from Biden’s alleged frailties to po Trump the victim.
"Axios Gun Violence Archive" keeps a running Tally of multiple Gun Violence in Victims the U.S. (4 or more victims required).
Per the Axios Archive as pf 7/2/24 -- 261 such Gun Violence incidents have occurred as of July 2, 2024. In 2024 Axios data projects an all-time high of Gun Violence Victims (plural) this year. "USA. USA, USA" --- Not.
Axios should correct that total Tally to 262 unless I missed any violent mayhem in the 11 days between July 3, 2024 to July 12, 2024.
Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
I also believe our SCOUS has allowed gun violence to go unchecked by allowing any type of guns,after a certain age or anyone can buy any gun they want.
Lynn, yes, the emphasis, if there is one, should be eliminating semi-automatic weapons, bumpstocks (not used in this event, I don't think, but certainly in others, toning down the "need for guns" talk and the 2nd amendment nonsense that anyone should be able to have a gun anywhere at any time. When we were listening to the reports of the event, my sister noted that Trump had his fist in the air and hand almost like a Hitler salute. If that is so, and I don't doubt her, that may be the Trump Kamp's future video image of Trump's miraculous strength rather than a "knee-jerk" response to having been shot. Guns will not be on the Republican agenda except that if more people had them, someone in the crowd could have taken out the shooter, nonsense, but Republicans thrive on nonsense these days and have no plan to change.
No but the Dems have always had the advantage of a superior get out the vote ground game. This may make Trump supporters highly motivated to go out and vote where otherwise they may have been inclined to stay home. This could minimize the Dems advantage.
I hadn't thought about sympathy votes, but I agree that's a definite possibility. I'm hoping that Biden's alleged frailties will go away, but to my mind, if trump tries to get sympathy, he'll be like the boy who cried "wolf". He's already overplayed that card.
Do you think trump will take the time to visit the two gun shot survivors and the family of the man who was killed? We know he doesn’t want disabled military wounded close to him and told that to General Miley. These are his supporters so it will be interesting, although my answer is no. What a loser.
Joanne - I’m sure he will visit as soon as he can get the media lined up to make it a campaign event. Never waste an opportunity to tell us one more time how the 2020 election was stolen.
Couldn't agree with you more and it's telling the virtually no one in Trump world seems to have acted on behalf of the family of the person killed or the other two who were wounded, except for a few statements about thoughts and prayers. Also interesting that Melania didn't seem to make the effort to be by his side, nor his children or at least let it be known that's what she /they wanted to do if all were advised by Secret Service to stay put.
I'm pretty sure that Melania wants nothing to do with him, and it could be true also of Ivanka. The boys probably are waiting for marching orders. I'm appalled that Trump has said absolutely nothing about the people who were so horribly hurt, especially the man who died. But I'm not surprised because Trump is a psychopath for whom other people mean nothing.
Anyone who feels sympathy for Trump is already voting for him. Anyone who doesn’t feel sympathy for him he’s not voting for him. I don’t think anything’s gonna change in the voting numbers because of this event.
The #1 issue in this election: Most voters know nothing about Project 2025. It's our job to get the word out. Let everyone we know what it'll mean for them personally.
I'm guessing there might be a sympathy vote if the election were held this week. By Thursday or so, Trump will have destroyed whatever sympathy he had from people who weren't already his devoted fans.
How will they use this to their advantage? Maybe ddt’s handlers want to keep him out of the public eye because of his worsening nonsensical rhetoric. This event will justify doing that. Also he wasn’t seen for many days in a row just before this event, right? Why?
I believe there are some people who are just that crazy. Your comment reminded me of a friend who married her boyfriend because he had a heart attack, but later had to divorce him. Same kind of crazy, IMO.
Biden's alleged frailties have gone away. All you have to do to believe this is to listen to his campaign speech in Detroit the other day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7mDPX_jmk
Not too long ago, I experienced a case of acute bronchitis caused by a virus perhaps brought on traveling over the December holidays. I have a good immune system and am rarely that sick but it knocked me out for days and the fatigue & mental fog held on for at least 10-14 days altogether. That seems entirely possible as the cause of Biden's terrible experience at the "debate".
I've felt they have, too. To me he presents as strong, and I did see some of the Michigan speech. I know that at his age, because I'm close, that some things slow down, but his brain and his energy don't seem to have slowed. I'm sure that the combination of age, a cold, and jet lag were the reason behind his poor debate performance. And, of course, the barrage of lies coming from his opponent. I have been very upset with all who think he should step down because of a poor debate performance. Debating, if you can call that encounter a debate, has nothing to do with handling the job of President, and Biden handles the presidency quite well, IMO. And, as I've said before elsewhere, Biden is a doer, not a performer.
Biden was more likely expected a debate on issues not just the 🍊💩 throwing out lie after lie and gaslighting that nobody would be able to keep up with. His mistake for thinking the tRump could have a debate
Yup. Good idea Judith, but not one that Biden's team thought of before, during, or immediately after his performance. His team needs to be better at thinking outside the box. So either his debate prep team needs to be fired (they do (especially the ghoul with the fondness for white facepaint)) or something is rotten in Denmark (maybe). We'll know soon enough I suppose.
He has physical frailties as do most of us at this age (I'm 80) but his mental faculties are here and strong now that he has recovered from whatever infection he was suffering from at the time of the "debate".
Evidence? And which frailties are you talking about? The ones in evidence at the June 27 debate were most likely due to serious jet lag + Gish gallop. They've already gone away.
Susan, you are right that Trump has more than overplayed his "poor little me" card, but he has handlers who have no ability to be honest with anyone. I do think they will make his "injury" seem far worse than it actually is. No medical report will be seen as true. He will be late for rallies because of massive headaches and his cult will stand in the heat and be made to feel just soooo bad for their wounded warrior. That kind of sympathy builds hate and resentment and could tip this election in favor of an old man Trump, with dementia who cares for no one and nothing but himself and what makes him feel good and powerful, and which will make his handlers far more powerful than they have a right to be.
Ruth, please pardon me while I "toss my cookies". I can see where what you say would be true, but right now he doesn't have enough of a base to win. Do you think that people outside his base will suddenly decide to vote for him because of that? I hope not, with all my heart.
Bill, if the election were next week, I'd be worried about that. It's not till early November. Three and a half months is more than enough time for reality to assert itself, esp. if we keep working to GOTV and persuade our wavering friends and neighbors to Vote Blue for Democracy. If it distracts the punditocracy from trying to push Biden off the ticket, that would be good, but I'm not betting on it. I just hope the delegates to the Democratic convention have their priorities straight, but I'm not betting on that either.
I am very worried that it will result in attempts on Biden and/or Harris's lives, which I have been worrying about since I learned that Putin planned to assassinate the CEO of a German weapons company supplying Ukraine, and others. Now, I feel more worried. I also know that we need to resist the fascist propaganda pressure to be silenced about how Trump is a criminal and Propaganda 2025 sf horrid and will destroy the USA and the planet if it comes to fruition. We need to keep reading, sharing and getting the word out about Project 2025 aka Agenda 47.
Linda - I wrote POTUS and VPOTUS and my reps back in March and asked them to not attend events together and to immediately polygraph all Secret Service agents to make sure none are insurrectionists. They must not underestimate the threat with the insurrectionist MAGA Mike Johnson second in line to POTUS.
I believe polygraph exploration of domestic threats should be expanded to all law enforcement including the FBI, active-duty military, and National Guard members. There are retired generals who are concerned that some governors will send their Guard units to assist in the next insurrection.
POTUS & VPOTUS did not take my advice to not simultaneously attend events. I hope they are rethinking everything after yesterday. I fear Christofascists will follow their leader and use violence. When you call for violence and make sure everyone has easy access to assault rifles you should not be surprised when that violence visits you.
The Secret Service has proven themselves untrustworthy and pro-Fascist. That is not conspiracy thinking, it's clear vision. Pence would not get in the car with them, Biden would not accept the ones assigned to him at the White House at the beginning, and the Secret Service at the highest levels ordered texts deleted and the system purged when the Jan 6 committee wanted to see them. I hope those responsible for Biden's security and security around the capitol during and right after the next election are very careful about who is on their team and gets the inside planning information.
Hence the need to polygraph everyone involved with our nation's security. POTUS also best consider activating all Army and Air National Guard troops around 1 October so they are under his command and not under the command of insurrectionist governors.
Zero Fail tells it all about the politics and goof ups of the SS...Carol Leonnig is the person to ask about the trustworthiness of the SS. Chilling stories.
While it makes sense for more reasons than just to appease MAGAs, but also for the security of everyone. However, with RNC this week and the DNC not too far off, they would need to at least choose an interim as acting Chief until there is time to hire someone to replace her. It sounds like the entire department needs a shake up.
Linda, I'm just now starting to watch the news, I like to give things 24 hours min to settle out. So far, I am hearing no one on the D side calling out Trump and MAGA for all their violent rhetoric, backing of assault rifles and violence. They are allowing Rs to project all this on Ds. I fear civil discourse is lost on the Christofascists, after all, they are on a mission from their God. When people cannot or don't want to know the truth, they provide security for the profession of arms.
POTUS needs to seriously consider using the powers SCROTUS has granted him in Trump v USA to save our democracy.
A MAGA friend sent me a screenshot of possibly an X post where Joe Concha claims that on July 8 POTUS said it's time to put Trump in a bullseye.
My response: As POTUS he can now do that legally! After all, that’s exactly what Trump wants if he is again POTUS. SCOTUS ruled that POTUS can order the military to assassinate political rivals. . . REAL dumbass ruling; but that is now the law of the land.
No, they ruled that POTUS can do whatever is deemed an official act ... by them. That means that they can give 45 a pass while refusing to consider any action by Biden as official. Despite all the talk of having made 45 "king", it also, as you may notice, gave them power over the top office in the land. IMO, they actually crowned six kings... seven if you count 45.
Biden had a huge opportunity tonight to rail against Trump for his violent rhetoric and for Trump's support of assault weapons. Instead we get kumbaya..... Anyone want to take a bet that the RNC is equally chummy to Biden next week.
At least Biden is doing his goodest. We can't ask for more....
I think kumbaya was the best approach. If he had not chosen that route the "kumbaya" as you call it democrats would have been horrified and repelled, the MAGAts would have screamed and ranted, and the undecideds would probably have been repelled too. Right now, I believe being serious and statesmanlike and having good policies are his strength and he does better to leave the hard talk for a few days out when things are a bit less raw. I have already heard democrats attacked for calling 45 a threat to democracy with the cry "calling out violence" as if...
Houston2024, I sincerely hope Ds are reevaluating everything after this weekend. I hope you are involved in Travis County since that could be one of the locations where the RShits try to stop the vote count so they can steal a Senate seat from Colin Allred.
Ms. Weide, I agree with you. Our biggest fear is that MAGA republican politicians, like Rep. Collins will spread propaganda that Pres. Biden & Democrats were behind this assassination attempt, & that one of their deranged members will attempt a hit on Biden or Harris. A focus on Trump’s instability, authoritarian plans, and utter lack of fitness for office as well as Biden’s great accomplishments, are the better path.
Yes Mr. Denman. They are doing this already. Not so much saying that he was behind it, but that he caused it by getting people het up. Of course, they are not addressing the fact that the would be assassin was a registered Republican. Of course instead of being prevented he was shot dead so there will be no questioning him on why he did it. Instead they will look at his things, which I have already read are not very much, and they will make a best guess. It seems to me our security services should be looking at every home that has guns and examining who is being let into political rallies. So, we need to improve the security set ups and the intel, but we should not get off message in this election. Fascists use sympathy all the time to get support. We should get right back on track with reading Project 2025 and telling people what is in it. It is still a choice between Fascism which will destroy our country, and Democracy. We need to also support AOC in taking on impeachment of our fascist Supreme Court members who are overthrowing our constitution from the bench.
Linda, Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
Steven - If these Christofascists simultaneously assassinate POTUS & VPOTUS it’s Gilead time as insurrectionist MAGA Mike Johnson is sworn in as POTUS, pardons the assassins and hands the election to Don the Con.
A friend of mine wrote this in response to my #BallotsNotBullets hash tag:
That would be a refreshing change of message from the fear and hatred we’ve been hearing from the left. It’s not too late for them to change, but the words they’ve been peddling this past year have been “existential threat”. I’m not kidding, it is their mantra. It can only change from within.
Now is the time for civil discourse concerning substantive gun reforms. It is a time to reflect on the victims of gun violence, especially the children. It is not the time for encouraging violence or advancing conspiracy theories. Nor is it the time to for gloating or levity.
If you really believe in gun reform, all victims should be afforded the same respect.
It's also important to remember that words have meaning. Often times multiple meanings now that we have a significantly smaller vocabulary than just a few years ago. When a person is lazy with their word choice, especially in politics, this kind of finger-pointing about word meaning only makes discourse harder.
Trump will flip anything to make himself a martyr and Biden the perpetrator. Never mind that the one who actually relishes in and promotes violence is Trump and his militia friends. Also, maybe a good time to point out that if Dems were in charge, no one could legally by an AR, especially not a 20 year old.
The fist-pumping image of a bleeding tRump and the flag will soon attain the iconography of the Joe Rosenthal "Iwo Jima" photo amongst the MAGA faithful...image has gone all viral, and trashy campaign gear featuring THE still photo is already on offer. Hard to believe - with one bystander dead and two others seriously injured - these people are so quick off the mark to exploit tRump's scratch on his ear to the exclusion of those actually struck by bullets.
Trump Campaign's GoFundMe For 'Butler PA Victims' Raises $1.4 Million In 15 Hours
A GoFundMe page set up by the Trump campaign to support victims of the Trump rally shooting has raised more than $1.4 million in 15 hours.
The fundraiser, titled "Support For Butler PA Victims," was set up by the national finance director of Trump's campaign, Meredith O'Rourke.
"President Donald Trump has authorized this account as a place for donations to the supporters and families wounded or killed in today's brutal and horrific assassination attempt," the page reads.
"All donations will be directed to these proud Americans as they grieve and recover. May God bless and unite our nation."
Written by Andy Campbell. Couldn’t tell if it was a tweet but I caught this with a screenshot in case things go into trumps fat little hands instead.
I took a screenshot of a tweet(I think)by one Andy Campbell about “the Trump Campaign’s Go Fund Me for Butler, PA victims raises $1.4 million in 15 hours”. It goes on to state, “The fundraiser, titled ‘Support For Butler PA Victims,’ was set up by the national finance director of Trump’s campaign, Meredith O’Rourke.
I hope this money finds the victims but since trump’s campaign set the fund up I’m having my doubts. I’m thinking some enterprising reporter(if there are any left)should maybe follow up on this little tale.
I read Ryan Grim's Drop Site newsletter about the shooting. In it, he reported that the gun was the shooter's father's gun and was an AR type. So, as Joyce said, let us wait for further investigation of this terrible shooting.
If iot was a 7.62mm (AK-47) there would have been more damage to Trump, even if what he was hit by was flying glass from the teleprompter. Bigger bullet, bigger impact.
TCinLA, given the rampant misinformation circulating & massive "jumping to conclusions", it is very important that you bring your expert military historian skills to the many issues over the inevitable endless "news" cycles.
UPDATE ABC national News:
A "local policeman did confront the shooter during the shooting but, apparently "fell" from the elevated position. This policeman has likely already been interviewed. The Shooter was killed by a sniper set up to the right of the stage.
A 50 year old local Dad & fireman,CASEY COMPERATORE, was killed by one of the shooter's bullets. CASEY COMPERATOREwho was on the stage had straddled his family with his body.
**********************************
Referencing an aerial map of "Butler Farm" of FBI origin, notes on a marked diagram indicate the elevated shooters position was "Roughly 148 yards" to the stage. The FBI diagram appears to confirm that the shooters position was OUTSIDE the magnometer screened security ring.
Can you estimate the actual oblique angle to Trump and/or the degree of difficulty?
An an ex-trial attorney, I am very interested in the identity and testimony of ANY witnesses also outside the security ring but such as the "local cop" very near, confronting and/or below the shooter's elevated position.This morning, Anchor, Andrea Mitchell botched an interview of at least 1 such witness.
Thank you in advance TCinLA; it's a long time to November.
When Ronald Reagan was shot, he wrote (in a note after coming out of anesthesia), “All in all, I’d rather be in Philadelphia.” Perhaps this was an attempt to comfort and reassure the nation. When Donald
Trump was shot, he pumped his fist and mouthed “Fight fight”. What a guy.
When Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election – a decision Trump saw as disloyal – he reportedly asked in anger "Where's my Roy Cohn?"
I also recall it being said that Reagan told Nancy,"Honey,I forgot to duck",a line from some old western movie.Likely the purpose was to help put her at ease.
Fight, my ass. He's OK with the fact that one of his fans was shot to death and two others gravely injured. But Trump expects other people to do the fighting for him, of course.
This has me so worried that Trump will be able to use this to win -- based on disinformation. Where were the Republicans when Paul Pelosi was clubbed in the head or when Whitmer's life was really and truly threatened. I deplore political violence - in all ways, but I am very concerned that this will turn the tide in Trump's favor and the GOP will milk it for all it's worth.
It is exhausting and head scratching, agree. Hard pressed think it’s the not the devil 😈 working overtime here. That said, no one, no one should be pointing at democrats while our president is about to speak to the American people.
I have begun to think of Trump the Undead, which is the only reason I can think of for why he has never suffered one consequence of any bad behavior any time in his entire life! Being Undead would explain a lot...
Because he "cashes in" or tweaks the narrative to make it all about him. Count on T taking his injured ear all the way to Election Day. Remember, he sees himself as a Mafiosi Don who is surrounded by protectors and advisors. Meanwhile, those who do his dirty work pay the price. Or the innocent...just like the officers on Jan 6.
To the contrary, this terrible incident will elevate the election debate around assault weapons! This weapon was apparently purchased by his father. Would the father have been able to do so if a Democratically controlled Congress plus Biden had enacted assault weapon legislation? It’s long past time to have a serious national conversation leading to impactful legislation and effective enforcement! We all are potential victims!
Sharon, Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
Sharon, Understood. Professor Snyder is talking about these fascists and trying to warn them that history says their violent rhetoric will very possibly boomerang:
"Some of Donald Trump’s supporters, including one right-radical senator and one right-radical congressman, were quick to blame the Democrats. (This is also, of course, Moscow’s line).
"Their reasoning might seem intuitive, and clearly did seem intuitive to many people. If a radical-right politician such as Donald Trump is the victim of an assassination attempt, should we not presume that the perpetrator is on the radical left?
"No, we should not.
"That sort of presumption, based on us-and-them thinking, is dangerous. It begins a chain of thinking that can lead to more violence. We are the victims, and they are the aggressors. We have been hurt, so it must have been them. No one thinking this way ever asks about the violence on one’s own side.
"And this way of thinking is also very often erroneous. The history of the far right tells a different story, one in which violence often refracts within and around a political movement that endorses it."
Ira, don’t forget that, right now, there are an estimated 20 million assault weapons in civilian hands. I’m not sure how we will EVER rid the nation of this scourge.
Doesn’t depend on MAGA; all depends on Dem turnout of younger women 18-35 on abortion and IVF; ballot initiatives will help induce Senate turnout of multi-millions of women in battleground states and maybe even Florida, Missouri; Nebraska just as we saw in 9 competitive victories in 2023 plus stronger D performance in competitive House CDs in CA, NY plus others here and there! Abortion turnout changes everything.
No, sorry, Ira. I totally agree that it would be good if it did elevate the discourse and, in particular, bring the conversation back to Trump's promotion of both violence and assault weapons. But it wont. Rep's have too many points to score blaming us for this. And they have a whole week ahead, during which time, Dem's wont fundraise and wont run ads. Funny world....
I see now Jason Orcamoon's comment about why no calls for thoughts and prayers. I had missed that. Interesting point indeed. Maybe they are too busy gloating that this has landed on their lap.
MAGA world is based on control, hate and revenge. We all should know that by now. Magats live and die by the projection of themselves on to others..............Their personal Jesus is the :Putin Praising Puppet, the shinning star of Narcissistic Peronality Disorder.
The Orange Cult is going to use this to the max..........put up the blue shield of protection and the bullets, arrows and stones will bounce off.
Be assured that misinformation would have/could have happened under any pretext. That's what they do. I am still shaking my head that a convicted felon and sex abuser could be a contender for the Presidency. Or that his fans don't seem to understand the consequences of voting for an authoritarian. Or that there should never be an abortion regardless of circumstances, while school shootings are shrugged off. It is what it is. As Mr. Rogers said, "Look for the Helpers." In this case, Joyce, who keeps calm, waits for the facts and keeps us advised, is clearly one of the helpers.
That is true, they will, but to what effect? Not so sure today. I heard Mike Johnson is going into little robot mode and calling for house investigations on the “failures of Biden’s Secret Service” before the criminal investigation is over. He needs to stay in his own lane. I’m being nice.
I thought he might have family, too! After all, they have proven their loyalty and willingness to be subservient. (I thought Ivanka so he could lord it over Biden/Harris)
Just to be clear: If Trump’s ear was hit by a bullet, he was an inch or two from dead. If he was hit by shattering glass, maybe somewhat lessso. This cannot be minimized in comparison with other assassination attempts.
Let's wait and see. I'm not convinced he was meant to be killed. Given what he is, and what his minions are, and what they do and have done, I will never be 100% convinced it wasn't staged. This is what disinformation produces even in relatively rational humans.
As a lawyer & retired judge, I agree with Joyce. Let’s wait for a more complete investigation before drawing conclusions. Political violence is abhorrent. Yet after seeing the video many times, I understand your point. One plausible conclusion is that the attack was staged to increase sympathy for Trump, who was not intended to be hurt.
I agree. (But you know, armchair detectives... I grew up on Perry Mason and Agatha Christie... I too think that is one of the plausible conclusions. So we'll wait.)
Everyone is talking about quieting the rhetoric. Why does NO ONE EVER mention Trump’s? He’s the entire reason the rhetoric is so bad and this country is so divided! I don’t want anyone to be assasinated but NOTHING will change until he does, and he NEVER will. Remember, he stopped, pumped his fist three times and said FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
Exactly!!! Mike Johnson is piously saying that Joe Biden saying Trump is dangerous to democracy is to blame for the shooting. While Trump and his minions casually and repeated use words vermin, thugs, low-lifes, traitors… and much more. God! the hypocrisy is sickening.
The first time I saw/heard the Johnson comment he blamed Biden for this - tried to cover himself by saying that Biden didn't realize blah, blah, blah. Since then I've seen that clip a dozen times and that piece of his remarks have been conveniently left out. You haven't seen the worst of the Trump hypocrisy, just wait.
My thoughts are on the firefighter who died saving his family. What is it going to take to get republicans to agree military style weapons don’t belong in non military hands?
As I demonstrated at Ebsen Range, a stock straight out of the armory M14 firing 7.62MM rounds can reach out 500 yards 10 for 10 in the black. At rapid fire at 300 yards I kept it to a pie plate circumference. I took my time once and qualified with 41 rounds out of the 50 given and qualified. No manliness in doing so in 1968. My Scout Master taught me at 14 when Scout Masters were real people.
The M16 is a piece of garbage. The round is meant for close up.
A sniper no, they trained me to be a Crypto Tech. Apparently, they liked my intelligence over my ability to shoot. My point? You do not need a hunting rifle. You pick up a stock military rifle with military sights and chambered for something other the 5.62mm round and you practice.
A different Republican party. Not a MAGA party. That will take years to create. A party that believes that all are created equal....you get the idea. We have the road map. An awful lot of people have neither the will, want, nor desire.
WE USED TO HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS REACH ACROSS THE ISLE IN COMPROMISE TO DO.THE PEOPLE'S WORK. SADLY I DON'T FEEL YOU'LL EVEN BEGIN TO HAPPEN UNTIL trump IS IN.YOUR REAR VIEW MIRROR...HE'S TORN THIS COUNTRY APART! LIKE A BROKEN PUZZLE, IT WILL TAKE TIME...A GREAT DEAL OF.WORK...TO.REPAIR THE DAMAGE HE HAS.WROUGHT.... " AND I HAVE MILES AHEAD BEFORE I.SLEEP..."
The entire purpose of the second amendment is so that as Alexander Hamilton put it, no force of regulars can be assembled that out guns the local populace. Has nothing to do with hunting or self-defense, but possibly standing up to the nation's military. If that young man had used a hunting rifle with a scope and much more powerful round, he would have accomplished his aim. We should all be clear that, like Kamala Harris says, we want to re-instate the old assault weapons ban, which allowed people to keep what they already had. If the government ever sent troops to confiscate peoples' weapons. It would start a second civil war. Remember more people are beaten to death than all killings with long guns, and knives kill four times as many as rifles.
Last knife attack I read about in England resulted in eight deaths and had to be stopped by a man grabbing a Narwhal tusk from a wall in some pub. The point is assault rifles are responsible for a very low amount of murders in the U.S. and most of those are gang related. They are effective in standing up to tyranny, the purpose of the second amendment. A free nation refers to one without a tyrannical government. Let's be glad this youngster did not know what he was doing so tRump can be defeated at the ballot box and go to jail.
They will NEVER AGREE to ban military style assault weapons as NRA and its supporters are very committed to support every Republican candidate! We just have to outvote them by electing Joe and a House and Senate majority in November! And then gaining effective control of the 60-vote Senate filibuster in 2026 which is possible as many more vulnerable Rs than Ds are up for election then!
So, effective gun control can become one of the major issues this year as well as abortion and IVF rights WITH YOUR FULL SUPPORT FOR Ds ON THE GROUND.
For effective nonpartisan voter registration of hundreds of thousands of Community College students only in “competitive” states and districts please go now to www.TurnUp.US and contribute generously as it is run by brilliant Harvard students and it us tax deductible as a C3! They really are very effective!
Violence can never be condoned. And yes I am waiting for the facts to emerge as advised: I always try to. But I admit I have no qualms saying it from where I sit:
Something about all of this smells like week-old rotting fish.
I’m not so sure anymore that violence can never be condoned. Was the attempted assassination of Adolf Hitler unwarranted? I worry that we may be approaching such a point.
Fair question. I think I would draw a distinction (and perhaps it's splitting hairs on my part) between "condoning" it and it being perhaps considered "justified" (as fraught as that word is) in some cases
Thanks for the common sense and thoughtful guidance Joyce. I don’t like Trump by any means but I never wanted this !! At all. This is not good for anyone and I just pray that knee jerk reactions by those with guns will be few.
We need republicans as well as democrats and other leaders to calm the rhetoric down. And I’m so sorry for those killed in the audience. So senseless.
It’s what is needed. And what I know we would have had in the past. But you are right. I’m not convinced it is possible in today’s world. But I can hope.
Thank you Joyce for a very factual report of the shooting. Your report gives facts free of the typical speculation and (sometimes) embellishment too often seen in reports these days.
One thing that is concerning is what this will do to trumps psychology . He has always imagined himself as a victim (Mary Trumps recounting of the mashed potato bowl on trumps head is perhaps one origin story). This was a very close call to actual victimhood. What will this do to the man's deranged vindictiveness?
Yes, a thoughtful person might re-examine his life and perhaps consider this event as a sign from God. Trump-types will think God favors what he is doing, justifying his detestable thoughts and actions.
Yes, I agree. Rather than a feeling of gratefulness for his survival, the many christian nationalists in my community are taking it as a sign that god favors him and has great plans for him to restore christianity to the unsaved. That’s us without a doubt. Gaaaaah!
We know who has fomented violence. We know who has suggested a bloodbath. There is much blood on the hands of this ex-President candidate, not just from his little cut on the ear. Officers of the law and others died on January 6. 2021. Donald Trump is directly responsible. A registered Republican tried to assassinate him, not the left. I appreciate being asked not to jump to conclusions, but mine eyes have seen all this. There is no conjecture here.
Thank you, Carl. The saying, "what goes around, comes around" comes to mind for me right now.
But superstition aside, I agree with Jeff Tiedrich that this is what we did not need. On the flip side, the one-note media can finally get off the "Joe Is Old" broken record and get on with turning Orange Jesus into "Saint Nick."
While I agree with you about fomenting violence, this was more than just a little cut on the ear. Not sure what this would do to someone as unstable as trump. After all, hearing a bullet whiz by your face hasn't to have been shocking. Especially with adderall on board.
Yes, and don’t be fooled by the devil’s “unity” speech on social media - that fist was for his base. If only people would follow more realistically and believe “bloodbath” when you hear it. Correlations with our past history are bone chilling.
Clear-minded sentiments as always, TY Joyce. President Biden will speak soon, he’s already called DT, both Ron Johnson and your mentioned post should not only step down, but leave our congress. It is indeed a moment of reflection of where our precious country is at and where it is headed, but there are always those who simply never feel or learn from these hateful events, only to point fingers. Stop the insanity now! I look fwd to hearing Joe, our sane POTUS.
YES, when we wrote that he is dangerous and unhinged and must be defeated, we meant at the ballot box not by a bullet!
I agree. I have no public commenting on this but only to hope that this will not result in sympathy votes for Trump. I fear it will and this will add to an already unstable character. And one other thing I believe this attempted assassination has now moved the juice away from Biden’s alleged frailties to po Trump the victim.
I really don't think that people who are terrified of tfg and know he's a fascist are going to vote for him because they feel sorry for him.
And the narrative should be look what happens when we don’t control firearms, rhetoric that is inflammatory, etc.
"Axios Gun Violence Archive" keeps a running Tally of multiple Gun Violence in Victims the U.S. (4 or more victims required).
Per the Axios Archive as pf 7/2/24 -- 261 such Gun Violence incidents have occurred as of July 2, 2024. In 2024 Axios data projects an all-time high of Gun Violence Victims (plural) this year. "USA. USA, USA" --- Not.
Axios should correct that total Tally to 262 unless I missed any violent mayhem in the 11 days between July 3, 2024 to July 12, 2024.
We definitely are "In this Together".
Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
https://snyder.substack.com/p/political-violence
I also believe our SCOUS has allowed gun violence to go unchecked by allowing any type of guns,after a certain age or anyone can buy any gun they want.
Lynn, yes, the emphasis, if there is one, should be eliminating semi-automatic weapons, bumpstocks (not used in this event, I don't think, but certainly in others, toning down the "need for guns" talk and the 2nd amendment nonsense that anyone should be able to have a gun anywhere at any time. When we were listening to the reports of the event, my sister noted that Trump had his fist in the air and hand almost like a Hitler salute. If that is so, and I don't doubt her, that may be the Trump Kamp's future video image of Trump's miraculous strength rather than a "knee-jerk" response to having been shot. Guns will not be on the Republican agenda except that if more people had them, someone in the crowd could have taken out the shooter, nonsense, but Republicans thrive on nonsense these days and have no plan to change.
Great point.
No but the Dems have always had the advantage of a superior get out the vote ground game. This may make Trump supporters highly motivated to go out and vote where otherwise they may have been inclined to stay home. This could minimize the Dems advantage.
Who knows what the future will bring… except I stick to my firm belief that DT will lose.
Me too….. holding onto hope.
I hadn't thought about sympathy votes, but I agree that's a definite possibility. I'm hoping that Biden's alleged frailties will go away, but to my mind, if trump tries to get sympathy, he'll be like the boy who cried "wolf". He's already overplayed that card.
I admired Reagan after he was shot, but I would never vote for him. This grazing doesn’t faze me.
I'm saving my sympathy for the person who died and the two guys who are in critical condition.
Do you think trump will take the time to visit the two gun shot survivors and the family of the man who was killed? We know he doesn’t want disabled military wounded close to him and told that to General Miley. These are his supporters so it will be interesting, although my answer is no. What a loser.
Joanne - I’m sure he will visit as soon as he can get the media lined up to make it a campaign event. Never waste an opportunity to tell us one more time how the 2020 election was stolen.
He will, as soon as he can get the campaign to arrange the photo-ops.
He's playing golf today!
what’s important to him is what he does, Golf is his priority
No way
Couldn't agree with you more and it's telling the virtually no one in Trump world seems to have acted on behalf of the family of the person killed or the other two who were wounded, except for a few statements about thoughts and prayers. Also interesting that Melania didn't seem to make the effort to be by his side, nor his children or at least let it be known that's what she /they wanted to do if all were advised by Secret Service to stay put.
I'm pretty sure that Melania wants nothing to do with him, and it could be true also of Ivanka. The boys probably are waiting for marching orders. I'm appalled that Trump has said absolutely nothing about the people who were so horribly hurt, especially the man who died. But I'm not surprised because Trump is a psychopath for whom other people mean nothing.
Same here.
Anyone who feels sympathy for Trump is already voting for him. Anyone who doesn’t feel sympathy for him he’s not voting for him. I don’t think anything’s gonna change in the voting numbers because of this event.
The #1 issue in this election: Most voters know nothing about Project 2025. It's our job to get the word out. Let everyone we know what it'll mean for them personally.
I really hope you are right.
Really, who would vote for him just because he got shot at?
I'm guessing there might be a sympathy vote if the election were held this week. By Thursday or so, Trump will have destroyed whatever sympathy he had from people who weren't already his devoted fans.
How will they use this to their advantage? Maybe ddt’s handlers want to keep him out of the public eye because of his worsening nonsensical rhetoric. This event will justify doing that. Also he wasn’t seen for many days in a row just before this event, right? Why?
I believe there are some people who are just that crazy. Your comment reminded me of a friend who married her boyfriend because he had a heart attack, but later had to divorce him. Same kind of crazy, IMO.
And it’s months away.
Biden's alleged frailties have gone away. All you have to do to believe this is to listen to his campaign speech in Detroit the other day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7mDPX_jmk
Not too long ago, I experienced a case of acute bronchitis caused by a virus perhaps brought on traveling over the December holidays. I have a good immune system and am rarely that sick but it knocked me out for days and the fatigue & mental fog held on for at least 10-14 days altogether. That seems entirely possible as the cause of Biden's terrible experience at the "debate".
I've felt they have, too. To me he presents as strong, and I did see some of the Michigan speech. I know that at his age, because I'm close, that some things slow down, but his brain and his energy don't seem to have slowed. I'm sure that the combination of age, a cold, and jet lag were the reason behind his poor debate performance. And, of course, the barrage of lies coming from his opponent. I have been very upset with all who think he should step down because of a poor debate performance. Debating, if you can call that encounter a debate, has nothing to do with handling the job of President, and Biden handles the presidency quite well, IMO. And, as I've said before elsewhere, Biden is a doer, not a performer.
Biden was more likely expected a debate on issues not just the 🍊💩 throwing out lie after lie and gaslighting that nobody would be able to keep up with. His mistake for thinking the tRump could have a debate
Yup. Good idea Judith, but not one that Biden's team thought of before, during, or immediately after his performance. His team needs to be better at thinking outside the box. So either his debate prep team needs to be fired (they do (especially the ghoul with the fondness for white facepaint)) or something is rotten in Denmark (maybe). We'll know soon enough I suppose.
Sorry Susan: Biden’s frailties won’t “go away.” They get worse.
Kamala Harris will not go away. Nice to have a strong competent backup if you're worried, isn't it?
Mary Selig - please watch and listen to Biden's speech just a few days ago in Detroit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7mDPX_jmk
He has physical frailties as do most of us at this age (I'm 80) but his mental faculties are here and strong now that he has recovered from whatever infection he was suffering from at the time of the "debate".
Evidence? And which frailties are you talking about? The ones in evidence at the June 27 debate were most likely due to serious jet lag + Gish gallop. They've already gone away.
He deserves the sympathy votes…
Susan, you are right that Trump has more than overplayed his "poor little me" card, but he has handlers who have no ability to be honest with anyone. I do think they will make his "injury" seem far worse than it actually is. No medical report will be seen as true. He will be late for rallies because of massive headaches and his cult will stand in the heat and be made to feel just soooo bad for their wounded warrior. That kind of sympathy builds hate and resentment and could tip this election in favor of an old man Trump, with dementia who cares for no one and nothing but himself and what makes him feel good and powerful, and which will make his handlers far more powerful than they have a right to be.
Ruth, please pardon me while I "toss my cookies". I can see where what you say would be true, but right now he doesn't have enough of a base to win. Do you think that people outside his base will suddenly decide to vote for him because of that? I hope not, with all my heart.
Correct, Mr. Katz. Our recourse is at the ballot box.
Bill, if the election were next week, I'd be worried about that. It's not till early November. Three and a half months is more than enough time for reality to assert itself, esp. if we keep working to GOTV and persuade our wavering friends and neighbors to Vote Blue for Democracy. If it distracts the punditocracy from trying to push Biden off the ticket, that would be good, but I'm not betting on it. I just hope the delegates to the Democratic convention have their priorities straight, but I'm not betting on that either.
There is a long time yet until the election. Any sympathy for him will dissipate by then, at least to anyone who's listening.
Trying not to go there, Bill. We can’t give up!
I am very worried that it will result in attempts on Biden and/or Harris's lives, which I have been worrying about since I learned that Putin planned to assassinate the CEO of a German weapons company supplying Ukraine, and others. Now, I feel more worried. I also know that we need to resist the fascist propaganda pressure to be silenced about how Trump is a criminal and Propaganda 2025 sf horrid and will destroy the USA and the planet if it comes to fruition. We need to keep reading, sharing and getting the word out about Project 2025 aka Agenda 47.
Linda - I wrote POTUS and VPOTUS and my reps back in March and asked them to not attend events together and to immediately polygraph all Secret Service agents to make sure none are insurrectionists. They must not underestimate the threat with the insurrectionist MAGA Mike Johnson second in line to POTUS.
I believe polygraph exploration of domestic threats should be expanded to all law enforcement including the FBI, active-duty military, and National Guard members. There are retired generals who are concerned that some governors will send their Guard units to assist in the next insurrection.
POTUS & VPOTUS did not take my advice to not simultaneously attend events. I hope they are rethinking everything after yesterday. I fear Christofascists will follow their leader and use violence. When you call for violence and make sure everyone has easy access to assault rifles you should not be surprised when that violence visits you.
The Secret Service has proven themselves untrustworthy and pro-Fascist. That is not conspiracy thinking, it's clear vision. Pence would not get in the car with them, Biden would not accept the ones assigned to him at the White House at the beginning, and the Secret Service at the highest levels ordered texts deleted and the system purged when the Jan 6 committee wanted to see them. I hope those responsible for Biden's security and security around the capitol during and right after the next election are very careful about who is on their team and gets the inside planning information.
Hence the need to polygraph everyone involved with our nation's security. POTUS also best consider activating all Army and Air National Guard troops around 1 October so they are under his command and not under the command of insurrectionist governors.
Zero Fail tells it all about the politics and goof ups of the SS...Carol Leonnig is the person to ask about the trustworthiness of the SS. Chilling stories.
I ordered it. Currently only cents over $15 on Amazon in hardback.
Agreed.
Jason, I totally agree with you. Also, Jeff Stein of Spy Talk Substack, says that Biden needs to fire Secret Service Chief Kimberly Cheatle.
https://www.spytalk.co/p/fire-kimberly-cheatle
While it makes sense for more reasons than just to appease MAGAs, but also for the security of everyone. However, with RNC this week and the DNC not too far off, they would need to at least choose an interim as acting Chief until there is time to hire someone to replace her. It sounds like the entire department needs a shake up.
Linda, I'm just now starting to watch the news, I like to give things 24 hours min to settle out. So far, I am hearing no one on the D side calling out Trump and MAGA for all their violent rhetoric, backing of assault rifles and violence. They are allowing Rs to project all this on Ds. I fear civil discourse is lost on the Christofascists, after all, they are on a mission from their God. When people cannot or don't want to know the truth, they provide security for the profession of arms.
POTUS needs to seriously consider using the powers SCROTUS has granted him in Trump v USA to save our democracy.
A MAGA friend sent me a screenshot of possibly an X post where Joe Concha claims that on July 8 POTUS said it's time to put Trump in a bullseye.
My response: As POTUS he can now do that legally! After all, that’s exactly what Trump wants if he is again POTUS. SCOTUS ruled that POTUS can order the military to assassinate political rivals. . . REAL dumbass ruling; but that is now the law of the land.
No, they ruled that POTUS can do whatever is deemed an official act ... by them. That means that they can give 45 a pass while refusing to consider any action by Biden as official. Despite all the talk of having made 45 "king", it also, as you may notice, gave them power over the top office in the land. IMO, they actually crowned six kings... seven if you count 45.
Biden had a huge opportunity tonight to rail against Trump for his violent rhetoric and for Trump's support of assault weapons. Instead we get kumbaya..... Anyone want to take a bet that the RNC is equally chummy to Biden next week.
At least Biden is doing his goodest. We can't ask for more....
Apparently :-(
I think kumbaya was the best approach. If he had not chosen that route the "kumbaya" as you call it democrats would have been horrified and repelled, the MAGAts would have screamed and ranted, and the undecideds would probably have been repelled too. Right now, I believe being serious and statesmanlike and having good policies are his strength and he does better to leave the hard talk for a few days out when things are a bit less raw. I have already heard democrats attacked for calling 45 a threat to democracy with the cry "calling out violence" as if...
Houston2024, I sincerely hope Ds are reevaluating everything after this weekend. I hope you are involved in Travis County since that could be one of the locations where the RShits try to stop the vote count so they can steal a Senate seat from Colin Allred.
PS Don't forget where Viktor Orban went after the NATO summit: Mar-a-Lago.
https://apnews.com/article/hungarys-orban-visit-trump-mar-a-lago-ee6ba8edc4d4f4f92b06a9265945df8f
Yes. I have been discussing this with friends.
Ms. Weide, I agree with you. Our biggest fear is that MAGA republican politicians, like Rep. Collins will spread propaganda that Pres. Biden & Democrats were behind this assassination attempt, & that one of their deranged members will attempt a hit on Biden or Harris. A focus on Trump’s instability, authoritarian plans, and utter lack of fitness for office as well as Biden’s great accomplishments, are the better path.
Yes Mr. Denman. They are doing this already. Not so much saying that he was behind it, but that he caused it by getting people het up. Of course, they are not addressing the fact that the would be assassin was a registered Republican. Of course instead of being prevented he was shot dead so there will be no questioning him on why he did it. Instead they will look at his things, which I have already read are not very much, and they will make a best guess. It seems to me our security services should be looking at every home that has guns and examining who is being let into political rallies. So, we need to improve the security set ups and the intel, but we should not get off message in this election. Fascists use sympathy all the time to get support. We should get right back on track with reading Project 2025 and telling people what is in it. It is still a choice between Fascism which will destroy our country, and Democracy. We need to also support AOC in taking on impeachment of our fascist Supreme Court members who are overthrowing our constitution from the bench.
Linda, Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
https://snyder.substack.com/p/political-violence
Steven - If these Christofascists simultaneously assassinate POTUS & VPOTUS it’s Gilead time as insurrectionist MAGA Mike Johnson is sworn in as POTUS, pardons the assassins and hands the election to Don the Con.
YIKES!
They are deranged the MAGAS I am afraid of this too
Right Linda, the MAGAs are already blaming Joe. This cannot end well.
A friend of mine wrote this in response to my #BallotsNotBullets hash tag:
That would be a refreshing change of message from the fear and hatred we’ve been hearing from the left. It’s not too late for them to change, but the words they’ve been peddling this past year have been “existential threat”. I’m not kidding, it is their mantra. It can only change from within.
Sigh...
“ Ballots not bullets “ is the path to victory!
Now is the time for civil discourse concerning substantive gun reforms. It is a time to reflect on the victims of gun violence, especially the children. It is not the time for encouraging violence or advancing conspiracy theories. Nor is it the time to for gloating or levity.
If you really believe in gun reform, all victims should be afforded the same respect.
It's also important to remember that words have meaning. Often times multiple meanings now that we have a significantly smaller vocabulary than just a few years ago. When a person is lazy with their word choice, especially in politics, this kind of finger-pointing about word meaning only makes discourse harder.
Trump will flip anything to make himself a martyr and Biden the perpetrator. Never mind that the one who actually relishes in and promotes violence is Trump and his militia friends. Also, maybe a good time to point out that if Dems were in charge, no one could legally by an AR, especially not a 20 year old.
The fist-pumping image of a bleeding tRump and the flag will soon attain the iconography of the Joe Rosenthal "Iwo Jima" photo amongst the MAGA faithful...image has gone all viral, and trashy campaign gear featuring THE still photo is already on offer. Hard to believe - with one bystander dead and two others seriously injured - these people are so quick off the mark to exploit tRump's scratch on his ear to the exclusion of those actually struck by bullets.
Vomitous
Nauseating and not surprising—- they is the most sickening part. None of this is surprising
Would not be surprised if money is grifted out of this in some way, knowing Trump.
Already happening, shocker! Not.
Trump Campaign's GoFundMe For 'Butler PA Victims' Raises $1.4 Million In 15 Hours
A GoFundMe page set up by the Trump campaign to support victims of the Trump rally shooting has raised more than $1.4 million in 15 hours.
The fundraiser, titled "Support For Butler PA Victims," was set up by the national finance director of Trump's campaign, Meredith O'Rourke.
"President Donald Trump has authorized this account as a place for donations to the supporters and families wounded or killed in today's brutal and horrific assassination attempt," the page reads.
"All donations will be directed to these proud Americans as they grieve and recover. May God bless and unite our nation."
Written by Andy Campbell. Couldn’t tell if it was a tweet but I caught this with a screenshot in case things go into trumps fat little hands instead.
Count on it,Veronica
I took a screenshot of a tweet(I think)by one Andy Campbell about “the Trump Campaign’s Go Fund Me for Butler, PA victims raises $1.4 million in 15 hours”. It goes on to state, “The fundraiser, titled ‘Support For Butler PA Victims,’ was set up by the national finance director of Trump’s campaign, Meredith O’Rourke.
I hope this money finds the victims but since trump’s campaign set the fund up I’m having my doubts. I’m thinking some enterprising reporter(if there are any left)should maybe follow up on this little tale.
Unfortunately, you are right about the "iconic" photo. It will be used the way his booking photo was used: ooooh, such a tough guy. :(
The bone spurs guy!
Tough NOT
It's just a matter of time before Rs start talking about a statue.
The shirts were literally online 3 hrs after the shot. I'm not sure that half the crowd on this substack realize how powerful is this moment.
Someone texted me privately to assure me that no-one would buy such a shirt... Sigh :-(
Disgusting!!
You reap what sow and trump sows violence!
Thanks to the missed shot, Donald missed reaping what he has sown. Sadly, innocent cultists were murdered
Cultists are hardly innocent. They're what keeps the cult alive!
I read Ryan Grim's Drop Site newsletter about the shooting. In it, he reported that the gun was the shooter's father's gun and was an AR type. So, as Joyce said, let us wait for further investigation of this terrible shooting.
Apparently the rifle was not an "AR".
If iot was a 7.62mm (AK-47) there would have been more damage to Trump, even if what he was hit by was flying glass from the teleprompter. Bigger bullet, bigger impact.
TCinLA, given the rampant misinformation circulating & massive "jumping to conclusions", it is very important that you bring your expert military historian skills to the many issues over the inevitable endless "news" cycles.
UPDATE ABC national News:
A "local policeman did confront the shooter during the shooting but, apparently "fell" from the elevated position. This policeman has likely already been interviewed. The Shooter was killed by a sniper set up to the right of the stage.
A 50 year old local Dad & fireman,CASEY COMPERATORE, was killed by one of the shooter's bullets. CASEY COMPERATOREwho was on the stage had straddled his family with his body.
**********************************
Referencing an aerial map of "Butler Farm" of FBI origin, notes on a marked diagram indicate the elevated shooters position was "Roughly 148 yards" to the stage. The FBI diagram appears to confirm that the shooters position was OUTSIDE the magnometer screened security ring.
Can you estimate the actual oblique angle to Trump and/or the degree of difficulty?
An an ex-trial attorney, I am very interested in the identity and testimony of ANY witnesses also outside the security ring but such as the "local cop" very near, confronting and/or below the shooter's elevated position.This morning, Anchor, Andrea Mitchell botched an interview of at least 1 such witness.
Thank you in advance TCinLA; it's a long time to November.
Stay Safe All
That’s why I am sure it was planned! But not to hurt Trump
FYI reports are his Father legally bought the gun. Not the shooter.
On that note, the gun he used was bought by his dad.
Good idea!
When Ronald Reagan was shot, he wrote (in a note after coming out of anesthesia), “All in all, I’d rather be in Philadelphia.” Perhaps this was an attempt to comfort and reassure the nation. When Donald
Trump was shot, he pumped his fist and mouthed “Fight fight”. What a guy.
The real person will always show their fangs
Challenges, traumas & hard times always bring out a person’s true character.
Let us recall with horror:
When Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election – a decision Trump saw as disloyal – he reportedly asked in anger "Where's my Roy Cohn?"
(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/us/politics/trump-sessions-russia-mcgahn.html)
Let us also think upon Project 2025, where the entire DOJ would become a Trump toy.
SADLY, THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW...AND WILL VOTE FOR HIM WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND HIS REAL MESSAGE...LIKE LEMMINGS OVER A CLIFF. SIMPLY...IT'S ALL ABOUT HIM.
PARAPHRASING...GOD! FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY.KNOW NOT WHAT THEY.DO!
His tiny, little fists.
No care whatever for those trying to protect him or bystanders at that point
Orange idiot
Did anyone, other than myself, notice that while the orange baby was being led off the stage, his last fist pump became a Nazi salute?
OH! YES!. SNAP! PRINT! THE WORLD.OVER!
R/W- I thought I saw that too.
I also recall it being said that Reagan told Nancy,"Honey,I forgot to duck",a line from some old western movie.Likely the purpose was to help put her at ease.
When I saw the video the first time, and every single time afterwards, I thought he was saying “fuck you, fuck you.”
Fight, my ass. He's OK with the fact that one of his fans was shot to death and two others gravely injured. But Trump expects other people to do the fighting for him, of course.
I heard that as F**k?
Mike-And didn’t anti- gun legislation follow?
The Brady Bill but not till. 1993 - Reagan was shot in 1981.
Thank you, Mike.
Perpetuating more violence "Fight..."
This has me so worried that Trump will be able to use this to win -- based on disinformation. Where were the Republicans when Paul Pelosi was clubbed in the head or when Whitmer's life was really and truly threatened. I deplore political violence - in all ways, but I am very concerned that this will turn the tide in Trump's favor and the GOP will milk it for all it's worth.
It seems when terrible, unfortunate things happen to other people, Trump somehow benefits.
It is exhausting and head scratching, agree. Hard pressed think it’s the not the devil 😈 working overtime here. That said, no one, no one should be pointing at democrats while our president is about to speak to the American people.
I have begun to think of Trump the Undead, which is the only reason I can think of for why he has never suffered one consequence of any bad behavior any time in his entire life! Being Undead would explain a lot...
Alas, DJT thinks of himself as immortal. But undead is more like it!
LOL
....or Rasputin....
My husband thinks Trump is the anti-Christ. But I don’t think so because I don’t think the anti-Christ will come as a moron.
The devil walks modern day earth in the form of donald j. trump and perhaps the hot dog guy on 54th St.
It’s part of his sociopathy.
Because he "cashes in" or tweaks the narrative to make it all about him. Count on T taking his injured ear all the way to Election Day. Remember, he sees himself as a Mafiosi Don who is surrounded by protectors and advisors. Meanwhile, those who do his dirty work pay the price. Or the innocent...just like the officers on Jan 6.
Devil
Somehow Trump emerges unscathed or worse, enhanced and emboldened. Nothing deters him. Under Satan’s protection. I am
agnostic but beginning to believe that he has some kind of cosmic protection
Still not going to vote for him
Never will I
Would never consider it.
To the contrary, this terrible incident will elevate the election debate around assault weapons! This weapon was apparently purchased by his father. Would the father have been able to do so if a Democratically controlled Congress plus Biden had enacted assault weapon legislation? It’s long past time to have a serious national conversation leading to impactful legislation and effective enforcement! We all are potential victims!
Interesting that Rs aren't responding with their typical: Thoughts and prayers.
No, they’re accusing the left and the President.
Sharon, Professor Snyder just posted his latest Thinking About: Political Violence.
“We learn that violence that starts on one corner of the far right often ricochets. We find that the important threshold is the enabling of the violence. And we realize is what we do afterwards that counts the most.”
“That, if anything, just confirms the general point. We might be tempted to think that violence against one side must come from the other side. But the bloody genie, once unleashed, often stays close to home. Those who have made violence normal are especially vulnerable, because they will always have colleagues or followers who think they have not gone far enough.”
“At this point, it is just worth noting that it would not be surprising if the man who tried to assassinate Trump was, like Trump, a right-wing radical. That would be typical of the United States, where most terrorist acts come from the far right. It would also be historically normal. Trump, like extreme-right-wing politicians in the past, has legitimated violence.”
https://snyder.substack.com/p/political-violence
I’m writing about JD Vance, James Comer and other Republicans who are blaming Biden and the left for the assassination attempt.
Sharon, Understood. Professor Snyder is talking about these fascists and trying to warn them that history says their violent rhetoric will very possibly boomerang:
"Some of Donald Trump’s supporters, including one right-radical senator and one right-radical congressman, were quick to blame the Democrats. (This is also, of course, Moscow’s line).
"Their reasoning might seem intuitive, and clearly did seem intuitive to many people. If a radical-right politician such as Donald Trump is the victim of an assassination attempt, should we not presume that the perpetrator is on the radical left?
"No, we should not.
"That sort of presumption, based on us-and-them thinking, is dangerous. It begins a chain of thinking that can lead to more violence. We are the victims, and they are the aggressors. We have been hurt, so it must have been them. No one thinking this way ever asks about the violence on one’s own side.
"And this way of thinking is also very often erroneous. The history of the far right tells a different story, one in which violence often refracts within and around a political movement that endorses it."
https://snyder.substack.com/p/political-violence
I fully expect the Christofascists to attempt assassinations this year.
Ira, don’t forget that, right now, there are an estimated 20 million assault weapons in civilian hands. I’m not sure how we will EVER rid the nation of this scourge.
Won’t happen, Ira. Sandy Hook and Uvalde did nothing to help our cause. MAGAts will revert to norm and declare we need more guns …..
Doesn’t depend on MAGA; all depends on Dem turnout of younger women 18-35 on abortion and IVF; ballot initiatives will help induce Senate turnout of multi-millions of women in battleground states and maybe even Florida, Missouri; Nebraska just as we saw in 9 competitive victories in 2023 plus stronger D performance in competitive House CDs in CA, NY plus others here and there! Abortion turnout changes everything.
No, sorry, Ira. I totally agree that it would be good if it did elevate the discourse and, in particular, bring the conversation back to Trump's promotion of both violence and assault weapons. But it wont. Rep's have too many points to score blaming us for this. And they have a whole week ahead, during which time, Dem's wont fundraise and wont run ads. Funny world....
I see now Jason Orcamoon's comment about why no calls for thoughts and prayers. I had missed that. Interesting point indeed. Maybe they are too busy gloating that this has landed on their lap.
MAGA world is based on control, hate and revenge. We all should know that by now. Magats live and die by the projection of themselves on to others..............Their personal Jesus is the :Putin Praising Puppet, the shinning star of Narcissistic Peronality Disorder.
The Orange Cult is going to use this to the max..........put up the blue shield of protection and the bullets, arrows and stones will bounce off.
MeidasTouch just reported that the assasin was a registered Republican 9/28/2021!!!
Be assured that misinformation would have/could have happened under any pretext. That's what they do. I am still shaking my head that a convicted felon and sex abuser could be a contender for the Presidency. Or that his fans don't seem to understand the consequences of voting for an authoritarian. Or that there should never be an abortion regardless of circumstances, while school shootings are shrugged off. It is what it is. As Mr. Rogers said, "Look for the Helpers." In this case, Joyce, who keeps calm, waits for the facts and keeps us advised, is clearly one of the helpers.
Joyce is clearly one of the helpers!
That is true, they will, but to what effect? Not so sure today. I heard Mike Johnson is going into little robot mode and calling for house investigations on the “failures of Biden’s Secret Service” before the criminal investigation is over. He needs to stay in his own lane. I’m being nice.
Paul Pelosi is married to a democrat. Since the republicans want to own the dems, that awful experience was a good thing to them. IMO.
Don Jr has already begun "strong man vs feeble man" campaign.
Watch for Don Jr for VP?
I thought he might have family, too! After all, they have proven their loyalty and willingness to be subservient. (I thought Ivanka so he could lord it over Biden/Harris)
Don, Jr. is a feeble man if there ever was one.
Just to be clear: If Trump’s ear was hit by a bullet, he was an inch or two from dead. If he was hit by shattering glass, maybe somewhat lessso. This cannot be minimized in comparison with other assassination attempts.
Let's wait and see. I'm not convinced he was meant to be killed. Given what he is, and what his minions are, and what they do and have done, I will never be 100% convinced it wasn't staged. This is what disinformation produces even in relatively rational humans.
As a lawyer & retired judge, I agree with Joyce. Let’s wait for a more complete investigation before drawing conclusions. Political violence is abhorrent. Yet after seeing the video many times, I understand your point. One plausible conclusion is that the attack was staged to increase sympathy for Trump, who was not intended to be hurt.
I agree. (But you know, armchair detectives... I grew up on Perry Mason and Agatha Christie... I too think that is one of the plausible conclusions. So we'll wait.)
I keep thinking of Putin's tactics and how much he wants Trump to win...
Everyone is talking about quieting the rhetoric. Why does NO ONE EVER mention Trump’s? He’s the entire reason the rhetoric is so bad and this country is so divided! I don’t want anyone to be assasinated but NOTHING will change until he does, and he NEVER will. Remember, he stopped, pumped his fist three times and said FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
Exactly!!! Mike Johnson is piously saying that Joe Biden saying Trump is dangerous to democracy is to blame for the shooting. While Trump and his minions casually and repeated use words vermin, thugs, low-lifes, traitors… and much more. God! the hypocrisy is sickening.
The first time I saw/heard the Johnson comment he blamed Biden for this - tried to cover himself by saying that Biden didn't realize blah, blah, blah. Since then I've seen that clip a dozen times and that piece of his remarks have been conveniently left out. You haven't seen the worst of the Trump hypocrisy, just wait.
Yes, his phony tough-guy, bully talk is worse than anybody’s.
K. Burns;
Very true.
SIMPLE ELOQUENCE...! SPOT ON!
We have become so inured to.his blather that we forget to realize it IS blather!
Exactly!
My thoughts are on the firefighter who died saving his family. What is it going to take to get republicans to agree military style weapons don’t belong in non military hands?
Actually, a properly equipped hunting-type rifle would have been much more accurate. As the Secret Service demonstrated.
Yes! Assault rifles are built for only one purpose: efficient killing at relatively short range. No legitimate “hunter” uses them.
Second amendment has nothing to do with hunting.
Doc:
As I demonstrated at Ebsen Range, a stock straight out of the armory M14 firing 7.62MM rounds can reach out 500 yards 10 for 10 in the black. At rapid fire at 300 yards I kept it to a pie plate circumference. I took my time once and qualified with 41 rounds out of the 50 given and qualified. No manliness in doing so in 1968. My Scout Master taught me at 14 when Scout Masters were real people.
The M16 is a piece of garbage. The round is meant for close up.
A sniper no, they trained me to be a Crypto Tech. Apparently, they liked my intelligence over my ability to shoot. My point? You do not need a hunting rifle. You pick up a stock military rifle with military sights and chambered for something other the 5.62mm round and you practice.
A different Republican party. Not a MAGA party. That will take years to create. A party that believes that all are created equal....you get the idea. We have the road map. An awful lot of people have neither the will, want, nor desire.
Unfortunately I believe you are right.
CAROL-ANN & DEBORAH...I AGREE WITH YOU BOTH!
WE USED TO HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS REACH ACROSS THE ISLE IN COMPROMISE TO DO.THE PEOPLE'S WORK. SADLY I DON'T FEEL YOU'LL EVEN BEGIN TO HAPPEN UNTIL trump IS IN.YOUR REAR VIEW MIRROR...HE'S TORN THIS COUNTRY APART! LIKE A BROKEN PUZZLE, IT WILL TAKE TIME...A GREAT DEAL OF.WORK...TO.REPAIR THE DAMAGE HE HAS.WROUGHT.... " AND I HAVE MILES AHEAD BEFORE I.SLEEP..."
The entire purpose of the second amendment is so that as Alexander Hamilton put it, no force of regulars can be assembled that out guns the local populace. Has nothing to do with hunting or self-defense, but possibly standing up to the nation's military. If that young man had used a hunting rifle with a scope and much more powerful round, he would have accomplished his aim. We should all be clear that, like Kamala Harris says, we want to re-instate the old assault weapons ban, which allowed people to keep what they already had. If the government ever sent troops to confiscate peoples' weapons. It would start a second civil war. Remember more people are beaten to death than all killings with long guns, and knives kill four times as many as rifles.
A knife would injure one person at a time, an AR will injure or kill dozens.
Last knife attack I read about in England resulted in eight deaths and had to be stopped by a man grabbing a Narwhal tusk from a wall in some pub. The point is assault rifles are responsible for a very low amount of murders in the U.S. and most of those are gang related. They are effective in standing up to tyranny, the purpose of the second amendment. A free nation refers to one without a tyrannical government. Let's be glad this youngster did not know what he was doing so tRump can be defeated at the ballot box and go to jail.
That's why every UK pub has a narwhal tusk. A lot of tourists miss that......
They will NEVER AGREE to ban military style assault weapons as NRA and its supporters are very committed to support every Republican candidate! We just have to outvote them by electing Joe and a House and Senate majority in November! And then gaining effective control of the 60-vote Senate filibuster in 2026 which is possible as many more vulnerable Rs than Ds are up for election then!
So, effective gun control can become one of the major issues this year as well as abortion and IVF rights WITH YOUR FULL SUPPORT FOR Ds ON THE GROUND.
For effective nonpartisan voter registration of hundreds of thousands of Community College students only in “competitive” states and districts please go now to www.TurnUp.US and contribute generously as it is run by brilliant Harvard students and it us tax deductible as a C3! They really are very effective!
They shouldn't have been there.
When you follow bad people bad things happen.
I know I hate seeing the children who are being taught to hate.
Violence can never be condoned. And yes I am waiting for the facts to emerge as advised: I always try to. But I admit I have no qualms saying it from where I sit:
Something about all of this smells like week-old rotting fish.
I’m not so sure anymore that violence can never be condoned. Was the attempted assassination of Adolf Hitler unwarranted? I worry that we may be approaching such a point.
Fair question. I think I would draw a distinction (and perhaps it's splitting hairs on my part) between "condoning" it and it being perhaps considered "justified" (as fraught as that word is) in some cases
Apparently we are there
My thoughts too.
Thanks for the common sense and thoughtful guidance Joyce. I don’t like Trump by any means but I never wanted this !! At all. This is not good for anyone and I just pray that knee jerk reactions by those with guns will be few.
We need republicans as well as democrats and other leaders to calm the rhetoric down. And I’m so sorry for those killed in the audience. So senseless.
“We need republicans as well as democrats and other leaders to calm the rhetoric down.”
Sorry, but what would it take to convinced you that Republicans will never do this?
It’s what is needed. And what I know we would have had in the past. But you are right. I’m not convinced it is possible in today’s world. But I can hope.
Yes! Let's remain constant in our openness to possibilities, lest we let a precious one go by irretrievably.
I don’t see too many avowed Dems using the type of rhetoric that calls for armed insurrection, or armed anything for that matter.
Thank you, Joyce. And, Happy Birthday.
When is your birthday, Joyce? Mine was yesterday. Happy Birthday!
July 22, same as mine!
Mine was yesterday, also!
Mine was the 10th! Cancers forever! ♋️ Happy Birthday & Celebrations All, in an otherwise depressing week...
Friday the 13th wasn't such an unlucky day.
Happy belated Birthday!
Mine was in January.
Happy birthday! Mine is coming up on Wednesday.
HB2U
Later this coming week, I believe.
Thank you Joyce for common sense and civil discussion on
this terrible incident.
"Ballots not Bullets"!
Thank you Joyce for a very factual report of the shooting. Your report gives facts free of the typical speculation and (sometimes) embellishment too often seen in reports these days.
I'm not saying it. Read my mind. A lot of time left to November. Do not fail to vote Blue up and down the ticket--no matter what.
Thank you for this. Very distressing.
One thing that is concerning is what this will do to trumps psychology . He has always imagined himself as a victim (Mary Trumps recounting of the mashed potato bowl on trumps head is perhaps one origin story). This was a very close call to actual victimhood. What will this do to the man's deranged vindictiveness?
If it’s even possible to get worse, his hate and blame will escalate.
Yes, a thoughtful person might re-examine his life and perhaps consider this event as a sign from God. Trump-types will think God favors what he is doing, justifying his detestable thoughts and actions.
Yes, I agree. Rather than a feeling of gratefulness for his survival, the many christian nationalists in my community are taking it as a sign that god favors him and has great plans for him to restore christianity to the unsaved. That’s us without a doubt. Gaaaaah!
Give him justification for killing others?
Thoughts and prayers. I have been waiting years to say it.
We know who has fomented violence. We know who has suggested a bloodbath. There is much blood on the hands of this ex-President candidate, not just from his little cut on the ear. Officers of the law and others died on January 6. 2021. Donald Trump is directly responsible. A registered Republican tried to assassinate him, not the left. I appreciate being asked not to jump to conclusions, but mine eyes have seen all this. There is no conjecture here.
Thank you, Carl. The saying, "what goes around, comes around" comes to mind for me right now.
But superstition aside, I agree with Jeff Tiedrich that this is what we did not need. On the flip side, the one-note media can finally get off the "Joe Is Old" broken record and get on with turning Orange Jesus into "Saint Nick."
While I agree with you about fomenting violence, this was more than just a little cut on the ear. Not sure what this would do to someone as unstable as trump. After all, hearing a bullet whiz by your face hasn't to have been shocking. Especially with adderall on board.
Well said, Carl 😔
Thank you. Being a victim does not mean innocence. Inciting a dog pack often leads to one to being bitten.
Yes, and don’t be fooled by the devil’s “unity” speech on social media - that fist was for his base. If only people would follow more realistically and believe “bloodbath” when you hear it. Correlations with our past history are bone chilling.
One just needs to watch https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/hitler-nazis-evil-on-trial-release-date-trailer-news
Tim Snyder gives a perspective with his soft-spoken brilliance. https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/political-violence?r=3m1bs&utm_medium=ios
Clear-minded sentiments as always, TY Joyce. President Biden will speak soon, he’s already called DT, both Ron Johnson and your mentioned post should not only step down, but leave our congress. It is indeed a moment of reflection of where our precious country is at and where it is headed, but there are always those who simply never feel or learn from these hateful events, only to point fingers. Stop the insanity now! I look fwd to hearing Joe, our sane POTUS.