In April, two political science scholars, professors David Broockman at UC Berkeley and Joshua Kalla at Yale, put up a working paper online for comment.
I approach the topic by asking two easy questions and providing context. First I ask, are you looking forward to or appreciating the benefits of Social Security? Do you know that Democrats legislated it into existence (FDR in the 1930s). Are you looking forward to or already appreciating the benefits of Medicare? Again, Democrats legislated into law (LBJ) in the 1960s. And do you realize that it is Democrats that are defending Social Security and Medicare in the face of Republicans wanting to reduce or possibly hinting at eliminating it? So which party do you think is looking out for the average American worker (retiree)?
Twenty years ago, or there about, my group of workers were upset about something in government. We had Kinko print 1000 post cards with 4 hand written questions. Today the questions would have been something like: Would you
1. let your children play at a friends house where the father grab young girls but the crotch?
2. eat in a restaurant where the owner yelled "soldiers are losers and suckers?"
3. attend a church where the priest had security guards force a mother out because her baby cried?
We bought a random conservative mailing list. While we were in meetings, on planes, we hand addressed then sent out the cards. It's not all we did... but funny thing is, we all thought it was great... just faith in the receivers... no confirmation.
When Trump came out as a candidate with so much doubt, comment and support, I verbally resisted at every chance. I asked Trump supporters three questions: 1) Would you want to work for him?, 2) Would you hire him?, and 3) Would you want your daughter to bring him home for the weekend? Usually, questions remained unanswered! Yet, it says it all!
Thank you! A group in my community sends out postcards to voters out of state prior to elections, and I write them, too, but I like this idea of asking these kind of questions.
Hi Deb, Yes, I've sent those printed cards too. They don't have the soul satisfying aspect that totally anonymous hand written questions had. Just the process of deciding and forming the questions was powerful for us. Better both than neither.
You buy list from companies. I can't remember name any longer. Just google buy lists, a bet there are many companies now. Probably can't buy supporters of 45 list, but pastors of any church would be lovely. Yes, seeding.
I loved this "Civil Discourse" this evening. If there are any of you in this group that do not read "Letters From an American", authored by Professor Heather Cox Richardson, right here on Substack, Google her name and check it out. It is a terrific follow up of Joyce Vance's words of wisdom penned today/evening. Or visa versa on which you read first. There is Hope, always hope.
Also, if you like to take action but don't have a lot of time, check out Jess Craven's "Chop Wood, Carry Water" - her Substack lists simple actions we can take regularly to make a difference towards saving our democracy. This is a recent newsletter -
Thank you for that pep talk, Joyce. For more than a year, I have been going online to discussion groups to fight the good fight with our MAGA friends online. I have found hat the best way to change hearts is to stay with facts, and quickly and strongly correct lies and inaccuracies and to say what is true. Some folks will not change their minds. They are too far gone. There are many of them. But I keep myself encouraged by remembering that I only have to change a few hearts and minds to change the outcome of an election. At least that's what I'm hoping. Bless you for sharing your ideas and strategies for making a difference. Your encouragement helps a lot!
Very interesting results. After years of biting my tongue, I am starting to say what I think in a straightforward but reasonable way (just sayin’ kind of way) with people I have been skirting around. I’m a bit skittish around strangers who may have a gun, but so far, so good. Thanks, Coach!
I find myself speaking up more often than not these days. Always lead with facts, correct whataboutisms back to the original topic and remain calm. Listen and repeat what is said back to the person in the form of a question eg; “So if I understand correctly... you’re saying...” I find it creates a more thoughtful dialogue. That is always helpful.
I read recently that if you are talking to someone with an opposing position or belief, it will increase your effectiveness in communicating your position if you first ask them “Would you be open to hearing another perspective or point of view?” Most people will answer yes, and in doing so they subtly commit to actually listening, and being open to hearing your viewpoint, rather than opposing it.
Thank you for the encouragement Joyce. I, too, have someone in mind. Over the past year or so I have printed several of Heather Cox Richardsons' Letters to hand this fellow. Clear and to the point. If I can get through to him, a once friend, I should be able to at least open others eyes too. Seventeen months is a very short time. You would be a great guest on her "Now and Then" podcast. Only this afternoon,Andrew Weissmann Tweeted "Joyce is so right, as always. I would take him at his word.
The only flaw in your argument, Joyce, is the question it poses re: finances. Where do we get the $15/hour to pay each of the 74,000,000+ FOX-loving, Trump-voting MAGA dimwits for watching a few hours a week of CNN? Do you really think they'll watch because we lovingly request that they do so? By the way, the study was undoubtedly undertaken prior to Chris Licht's arrival as head of CNN and his subsequent purge of reasonable folks who might have provided the MAGAts with the exposure you think might be helpful (think: the disappearing Brian Stelter, Jeffrey Toobin, John Harwood, and others . . . and the hard-to-ignore "change in tone" of others who have not (yet) departed‑‑-think: a noticeably more muted "balanced" approach [balance in the sense of FOX's use of the term] from Jake Tapper and the recent stern remonstrations from the avuncular Anderson Cooper getting all righteous & school-marmy about those of us living in our little protective "bubbles" and CNN's misunderstood teaching moment: allowing a fraudulent, morally depraved democracy destroyer to usurp hours of CNN airtime to get those 74,000,000+ dimwits to do it all over again. Nah. Think I'll take that heartwarming but wishful thinking study with a mountain-size grain of salt.
Follow-up: Excerpt from Steve Schmidt's excellent The Warning substack:
"One thing is for certain: the Trump era wrecked CNN. What survived was further smashed to bits by the WarnerMedia-Discovery merger, and the absurdist world view of its plutocrat, the billionaire John Malone, whose sensibilities tell him that “balance” requires more television based on the ethics framework that drives Fox News. That’s what he wants — more Fox. It flows from there. He doesn’t get it. David Zaslav doesn’t get it, and Chris Licht doesn’t get it.
The greatest and most fertile television market that has ever existed is the untapped exhausted majority of Americans who have been marginalized, disenfranchised and expelled from the public square by freak show media, politics and business elites who live completely apart from them in every way imaginable. People want the truth. They want reality, normalcy and explanation. The American public is dying for someone —and something — to measure up when it comes to maintaining trust.
There is an astonishing paragraph in the Alberta story where Licht advises Kaitlin Collins and the team that produced the CNN-Trump campaign rally that “the way to deal with a bully like Trump was to confront him with facts.” Of course, this isn’t just a naive view, it is a dangerously foolish one. It is the philosophy of Édouard Daladier and Neville Chamberlain at Munich. There is a tried and true approach to dealing with bullies, which involves knocking them on their a$$. This is far from the only scenario or situation where Mr. Licht seems to have a tenuous grip on reality."
Do not send them to CNN,it is now Fox lite. The bummer of this study is the majority went right back to Fox Entertainment. Brian Tyler Cohen,David Packman, Meidas Touch Network (MTN),Majority Report w Sam Seder and Ring of Fire are the media people who are changing minds. There's others,these people are suspicious of MSM.
Of the 74 million how many vote party line, regardless of candidate qualifications? Loyalty to party over country is part of the problem. Ask a Republican politician: education is dangerous, just trust me....
You have a valid point about Republican views on Education...read the article from the Washington Post's newsletter, "The Post Most" by Peter Jamison May 30, 2023, titled "The Revolt of the Christian Home-Schoolers"!
Just read that article! What an eye-opener. Seems to show exactly what kind of upbringing & brainwashing is done by some of the Christians who so hate any education beyond their narrow beliefs!
Yes, Debbie it is a "doozie"! I feel for that young couple who were so brave & cared so very much for their children that they made this decision - it has to be so difficult to realize how much true learning they were both deprived of. Makes a lot of the present issues coming up in politics & elsewhere.
There's a fabulous person on Instagram (possibly other social media too) named Leigh McGowan (iampoliticsgirl). I often think if republicans and MAGAs watched her videos we could move the needle towards sanity. Check her out. She's legit!
Did you see Anderson Cooper's disbelieving interview of Jim Comey this afternoon in which he threw negative opinion after negative opinion of everything that Comey said without realling engaging in a back and forth discussion...Anderson's disbelieving tone throughout the interview with no positive affirmations at the end...just goodbye! Anderson has been bought!
I saw that interview and thought those questions needed to be asked so that Comey could clarify in his own words what he believed to be his truth and I felt Comey was honest in his answers.
I'm confused. The sentence that stuck with me is: "But the endline survey two months later found these results 'largely receded as treated participants primarily returned to their prior viewing habits.' ”
So this conclusion seems to undercut the theory that there is any permanence to the "change of minds" theme. And paying people to watch CNN is a different dynamic than arguing with your uncle.
I think they were suggesting that more constant exposure to the truth might be a real and effective goal and finding other ways to engage disbelievers of the truth.
Joyce, a bit off subject, but your reference to this study makes me believe that America needs a charismatic centrist to lead us back to thinking as one country. Just get us off the broken record message of Trumpism so democracy can breathe.
I pine for the days of the Fairness Doctrine. Having no enforced requirements for telling the truth has opened the floodgates to FOX, Newsmax, etc. Morality is clearly no longer a check box for joining the executive suite, setting programming guidelines, or show running. We're the worse for that.
I agree. And by the way, any person with ancestry in places that experienced the horrors of fascism or totalitarianism should have the discernment to know that people often would rather believe repeated simple lies than complex truths. For these reasons, liberal democracies that limit freedom of speech a bit, for the purposes of disincentivizing violent hate speech, have it right. The protections of the First Amendment are a bit too broad and this allows malign actors to subvert democracy.
Morality has always been bought and paid for by many but with the social platforms and far right exposure it just builds on itself and all the while extremists are enabled to push even further with the help of the SCOTUS majority.
The only real answer to Fox News (not news) is to kick Murdoch and his son out of the country and forbid them to do any kind of business here in the USA (yes, I know he is a naturalize citizens, too bad, revoke it). New Zealand was smart enough to keep him out of their country because of the poison he spreads. Murdoch mantra is they are not a news organization so why have them at the WH news briefings or anywhere near the president? I'm sorry Joyce I do not trust this study. I don't remember if you said when it was done but it must be before the change of leadership, because wasn't much better before, but now it is becoming just like Fox.
What remains crystal clear is that Fox News has been pumping poison into American minds for a long time. Some people retain enough critical thinking to recognize some of the falsehoods. I believe the damage is done, and all we can do is nibble at the margins.
I approach the topic by asking two easy questions and providing context. First I ask, are you looking forward to or appreciating the benefits of Social Security? Do you know that Democrats legislated it into existence (FDR in the 1930s). Are you looking forward to or already appreciating the benefits of Medicare? Again, Democrats legislated into law (LBJ) in the 1960s. And do you realize that it is Democrats that are defending Social Security and Medicare in the face of Republicans wanting to reduce or possibly hinting at eliminating it? So which party do you think is looking out for the average American worker (retiree)?
Twenty years ago, or there about, my group of workers were upset about something in government. We had Kinko print 1000 post cards with 4 hand written questions. Today the questions would have been something like: Would you
1. let your children play at a friends house where the father grab young girls but the crotch?
2. eat in a restaurant where the owner yelled "soldiers are losers and suckers?"
3. attend a church where the priest had security guards force a mother out because her baby cried?
We bought a random conservative mailing list. While we were in meetings, on planes, we hand addressed then sent out the cards. It's not all we did... but funny thing is, we all thought it was great... just faith in the receivers... no confirmation.
When Trump came out as a candidate with so much doubt, comment and support, I verbally resisted at every chance. I asked Trump supporters three questions: 1) Would you want to work for him?, 2) Would you hire him?, and 3) Would you want your daughter to bring him home for the weekend? Usually, questions remained unanswered! Yet, it says it all!
Thank you! A group in my community sends out postcards to voters out of state prior to elections, and I write them, too, but I like this idea of asking these kind of questions.
Hi Deb, Yes, I've sent those printed cards too. They don't have the soul satisfying aspect that totally anonymous hand written questions had. Just the process of deciding and forming the questions was powerful for us. Better both than neither.
I have copied these 3 seeds. The Lord told me if we plant the seeds He will make them grow.
I will start planting.
Great idea. I will start by sending them to the pastors of the churches that support Donald.
Where do you get the random conservative mailing list?
You buy list from companies. I can't remember name any longer. Just google buy lists, a bet there are many companies now. Probably can't buy supporters of 45 list, but pastors of any church would be lovely. Yes, seeding.
Thank you!
I loved this "Civil Discourse" this evening. If there are any of you in this group that do not read "Letters From an American", authored by Professor Heather Cox Richardson, right here on Substack, Google her name and check it out. It is a terrific follow up of Joyce Vance's words of wisdom penned today/evening. Or visa versa on which you read first. There is Hope, always hope.
Yes. What a treat to read Joyce and Heather each night and throw in Robert Hubbell.
Heathers “letters” of May 29 on fascism should have had a helicopter fly over parts of the country dropping leaflets for people to read.
Yes! There is too much ignorance about such profound events. People need to be warned any way possible.
I thought we should do something similar, too.
Joyce, Heather and Jay Kuo are my top three.
And Robert Hubbell (Today's Edition Newsletter), for 4.
Also, if you like to take action but don't have a lot of time, check out Jess Craven's "Chop Wood, Carry Water" - her Substack lists simple actions we can take regularly to make a difference towards saving our democracy. This is a recent newsletter -
https://chopwoodcarrywaterdailyactions.substack.com/p/chop-wood-carry-water-62
Thank you for the tip Susan. Will check this out
You are welcome.
LFAA is how I came here!!!
Thank you for that pep talk, Joyce. For more than a year, I have been going online to discussion groups to fight the good fight with our MAGA friends online. I have found hat the best way to change hearts is to stay with facts, and quickly and strongly correct lies and inaccuracies and to say what is true. Some folks will not change their minds. They are too far gone. There are many of them. But I keep myself encouraged by remembering that I only have to change a few hearts and minds to change the outcome of an election. At least that's what I'm hoping. Bless you for sharing your ideas and strategies for making a difference. Your encouragement helps a lot!
We ARE in this together!
Steve
Very interesting results. After years of biting my tongue, I am starting to say what I think in a straightforward but reasonable way (just sayin’ kind of way) with people I have been skirting around. I’m a bit skittish around strangers who may have a gun, but so far, so good. Thanks, Coach!
I find myself speaking up more often than not these days. Always lead with facts, correct whataboutisms back to the original topic and remain calm. Listen and repeat what is said back to the person in the form of a question eg; “So if I understand correctly... you’re saying...” I find it creates a more thoughtful dialogue. That is always helpful.
I read recently that if you are talking to someone with an opposing position or belief, it will increase your effectiveness in communicating your position if you first ask them “Would you be open to hearing another perspective or point of view?” Most people will answer yes, and in doing so they subtly commit to actually listening, and being open to hearing your viewpoint, rather than opposing it.
Very important point, Jeff!
Thank you for the encouragement Joyce. I, too, have someone in mind. Over the past year or so I have printed several of Heather Cox Richardsons' Letters to hand this fellow. Clear and to the point. If I can get through to him, a once friend, I should be able to at least open others eyes too. Seventeen months is a very short time. You would be a great guest on her "Now and Then" podcast. Only this afternoon,Andrew Weissmann Tweeted "Joyce is so right, as always. I would take him at his word.
The only flaw in your argument, Joyce, is the question it poses re: finances. Where do we get the $15/hour to pay each of the 74,000,000+ FOX-loving, Trump-voting MAGA dimwits for watching a few hours a week of CNN? Do you really think they'll watch because we lovingly request that they do so? By the way, the study was undoubtedly undertaken prior to Chris Licht's arrival as head of CNN and his subsequent purge of reasonable folks who might have provided the MAGAts with the exposure you think might be helpful (think: the disappearing Brian Stelter, Jeffrey Toobin, John Harwood, and others . . . and the hard-to-ignore "change in tone" of others who have not (yet) departed‑‑-think: a noticeably more muted "balanced" approach [balance in the sense of FOX's use of the term] from Jake Tapper and the recent stern remonstrations from the avuncular Anderson Cooper getting all righteous & school-marmy about those of us living in our little protective "bubbles" and CNN's misunderstood teaching moment: allowing a fraudulent, morally depraved democracy destroyer to usurp hours of CNN airtime to get those 74,000,000+ dimwits to do it all over again. Nah. Think I'll take that heartwarming but wishful thinking study with a mountain-size grain of salt.
Follow-up: Excerpt from Steve Schmidt's excellent The Warning substack:
"One thing is for certain: the Trump era wrecked CNN. What survived was further smashed to bits by the WarnerMedia-Discovery merger, and the absurdist world view of its plutocrat, the billionaire John Malone, whose sensibilities tell him that “balance” requires more television based on the ethics framework that drives Fox News. That’s what he wants — more Fox. It flows from there. He doesn’t get it. David Zaslav doesn’t get it, and Chris Licht doesn’t get it.
The greatest and most fertile television market that has ever existed is the untapped exhausted majority of Americans who have been marginalized, disenfranchised and expelled from the public square by freak show media, politics and business elites who live completely apart from them in every way imaginable. People want the truth. They want reality, normalcy and explanation. The American public is dying for someone —and something — to measure up when it comes to maintaining trust.
There is an astonishing paragraph in the Alberta story where Licht advises Kaitlin Collins and the team that produced the CNN-Trump campaign rally that “the way to deal with a bully like Trump was to confront him with facts.” Of course, this isn’t just a naive view, it is a dangerously foolish one. It is the philosophy of Édouard Daladier and Neville Chamberlain at Munich. There is a tried and true approach to dealing with bullies, which involves knocking them on their a$$. This is far from the only scenario or situation where Mr. Licht seems to have a tenuous grip on reality."
Do not send them to CNN,it is now Fox lite. The bummer of this study is the majority went right back to Fox Entertainment. Brian Tyler Cohen,David Packman, Meidas Touch Network (MTN),Majority Report w Sam Seder and Ring of Fire are the media people who are changing minds. There's others,these people are suspicious of MSM.
Of the 74 million how many vote party line, regardless of candidate qualifications? Loyalty to party over country is part of the problem. Ask a Republican politician: education is dangerous, just trust me....
You have a valid point about Republican views on Education...read the article from the Washington Post's newsletter, "The Post Most" by Peter Jamison May 30, 2023, titled "The Revolt of the Christian Home-Schoolers"!
Just read that article! What an eye-opener. Seems to show exactly what kind of upbringing & brainwashing is done by some of the Christians who so hate any education beyond their narrow beliefs!
Thank you, Maggie, I only hope more people read this article...
Yes, Debbie it is a "doozie"! I feel for that young couple who were so brave & cared so very much for their children that they made this decision - it has to be so difficult to realize how much true learning they were both deprived of. Makes a lot of the present issues coming up in politics & elsewhere.
There's a fabulous person on Instagram (possibly other social media too) named Leigh McGowan (iampoliticsgirl). I often think if republicans and MAGAs watched her videos we could move the needle towards sanity. Check her out. She's legit!
Did you see Anderson Cooper's disbelieving interview of Jim Comey this afternoon in which he threw negative opinion after negative opinion of everything that Comey said without realling engaging in a back and forth discussion...Anderson's disbelieving tone throughout the interview with no positive affirmations at the end...just goodbye! Anderson has been bought!
Oh for sure! Just as disappointing as Jake Tapper. And here I thought these men were principled journalists.
Msm is a joke. That’s why I’m here on Substack.
I saw that interview and thought those questions needed to be asked so that Comey could clarify in his own words what he believed to be his truth and I felt Comey was honest in his answers.
This is a big ask, Joyce. I try to interact effectively w/ my friends on the right, but it always comes out, "Are you f#*^ing nuts?"
I'm confused. The sentence that stuck with me is: "But the endline survey two months later found these results 'largely receded as treated participants primarily returned to their prior viewing habits.' ”
So this conclusion seems to undercut the theory that there is any permanence to the "change of minds" theme. And paying people to watch CNN is a different dynamic than arguing with your uncle.
I think they were suggesting that more constant exposure to the truth might be a real and effective goal and finding other ways to engage disbelievers of the truth.
I share your questions, Vincent. Changing attitudes/behaviors permanently is an intensive and intentional months-long process.
Joyce, a bit off subject, but your reference to this study makes me believe that America needs a charismatic centrist to lead us back to thinking as one country. Just get us off the broken record message of Trumpism so democracy can breathe.
I was struck by your second paragraph, Joyce. You read the study because you teach a seminar in democratic institutions. Your students are fortunate.
Thank goodness you don’t teach in Florida…
Really good point.
I pine for the days of the Fairness Doctrine. Having no enforced requirements for telling the truth has opened the floodgates to FOX, Newsmax, etc. Morality is clearly no longer a check box for joining the executive suite, setting programming guidelines, or show running. We're the worse for that.
I agree. And by the way, any person with ancestry in places that experienced the horrors of fascism or totalitarianism should have the discernment to know that people often would rather believe repeated simple lies than complex truths. For these reasons, liberal democracies that limit freedom of speech a bit, for the purposes of disincentivizing violent hate speech, have it right. The protections of the First Amendment are a bit too broad and this allows malign actors to subvert democracy.
Morality has always been bought and paid for by many but with the social platforms and far right exposure it just builds on itself and all the while extremists are enabled to push even further with the help of the SCOTUS majority.
The only real answer to Fox News (not news) is to kick Murdoch and his son out of the country and forbid them to do any kind of business here in the USA (yes, I know he is a naturalize citizens, too bad, revoke it). New Zealand was smart enough to keep him out of their country because of the poison he spreads. Murdoch mantra is they are not a news organization so why have them at the WH news briefings or anywhere near the president? I'm sorry Joyce I do not trust this study. I don't remember if you said when it was done but it must be before the change of leadership, because wasn't much better before, but now it is becoming just like Fox.
Naturalized citizens can be deported for cause. It happens all the time. That's another project.
Yes, but it's rare. It doesn't "happen all the time". The "Grounds for Denaturalization" are here:
https://www.findlaw.com/immigration/citizenship/can-your-u-s-citizenship-be-revoked-.html
Yes, as circumstances warrent. All the time is an exagerated emphasis. Thank you for the link.
What remains crystal clear is that Fox News has been pumping poison into American minds for a long time. Some people retain enough critical thinking to recognize some of the falsehoods. I believe the damage is done, and all we can do is nibble at the margins.
That’s what fascists do, nibble at the margins to create confusion and therefore disallusionment in our systems of government.
Perseverance & positivity! Thanks, Joyce!