It took the 11th Circuit nine days and 21 pages to reject the former president’s most unusual suggestion that a federal district judge could interfere with the government’s criminal investigation into the classified documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago. I’ll do a quick read-through of the opinion for you, which will probably be more lengthy than if I took time to distill it as we usually do, but let’s get a hot take on this breaking news today.
Fabulous, Joyce! And no worries on typos. I’m so happy to have your thoughts hot off the press. I wouldn’t want you to have waited to proof it for typos before sharing. We’re your posse. Your thoughts and opinions are why we’re here. 👏
Thank you, Joyce. As an attorney (retired) who carefully followed my state’s ethical rules, I wonder how it is Trump’s attorneys aren’t sanctioned for filing a frivolous lawsuit or abuse of process? They didn’t even try to assert the first legal test to establish the court’s jurisdiction.
Agree, but there's not a hint of a sanctions motion evident here. They don't use the word frivolous at all, and I wonder if that reflects how much of this bad ruling is Judge Cannon going off the rails.
Overturning democracy is at the heart of this mans existence since he first started running for president, and he won't stop now. He is a spoiled, unqualified adult who wants to be in charge (and badly, at that) and won't take no for an answer. Section 3 of the 14th amendment must be invoked, and hopefully it will. He has committed crimes against the United States and should be prevented from ever holding office again. I await his indictment, possible guilty verdict, and would like to see him sentenced to prison time, just as you or I would receive for the same crimes he has committed.
Yes, it's cut and dry and it's not just the classified documents - it's just about everything he knowingly stole and moved, and hid, and correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't heard much about the missing stolen documents (as in empty "Confidential" folders).
Can Cannon be removed (I think this falls ("fails" works here, too) to Congress...) or have the Bar reprimand her? I know he shopped for her and I don't understand why that's not an issue.
Yes, where are the other documents. Donald's old attorney said that Donald took documents with him in his travels. I am still wanting to know what is in the grave.
Thank you so much for this surgical reduction and clarification of the findings! Let’s hope the floodgates of Justice-for-all open now… Trump must finally face a long overdue comeuppance with Jail time and disqualify him from every being in any government office again. Lastly, this should now put down the pedal in a “Legal Bus that Judge Cannon is thrown under”… ie properly censured and taken to task and ideally removed from the bench. Deep sigh of relief and getting Popcorn ready.
That's a great phrase "surgical reduction". I agree and that's where reading the nerdy stuff is really interesting (and it may take me a while but it's really clarifying).
We always knew that Cannon didn't have jurisdiction and that T hadn't passed the first Richey factor and now the 11th circuit has made this official. So happy to read your wonderful report - typos - shmypos - you're amazing. Thanks for disseminating this for us all.
Joyce: Can Judge Cannon somehow be reprimanded for what she did? Yes, she got slapped hard by the 11th Circuit, but what are the chances (if any) of her getting removed from office?
Just talking to myself. Cannon has been front and center in the news lately as she had one call after another stripped from her idiotic ruling. Would someone ask her if she has any regrets about the "legal" calls she made :) ?
Thank you for reminding me of his shady sister. Now that somebody forced Trump to handover five or six years of his tax records I’ll be very interested to see if he ends up following Al Capone into Sing Sing. And if the fraudster gets indicted and convicted of tax fraud, it will be interesting to see if this sister‘s name comes up again. And I’m naïve and perhaps stupid enough to hope that if she was involved, that she gets outfitted with the orange jumpsuit too.
Part of fascism appears to be the speed at which events take place. So much garbage happens that we tend to forget about a lot of the bad stuff. My memory isn't that great but that bugged the heck out of me that she got away with it due to our broken system. Happy to remind you.
Oh my goodness! I had no idea that Donald had a sister that was once a judge. If his sister could be held accountable, then why not Cannon? Yep, she got away with it. Isn't that expected? She did have money.
Sister of the dope retired before anyone could come after her. Per Joyce, the worst that can happen to her is she'll feel ashamed (something that's inconsequential to her actions). https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-sister-retires-from-the-bench-negating-judicial-ethics-complaints (PBS calls her leaving "retiring" while HuffPo calls it resigning. Anyone, any idea? One would mean possible benefits and one means she gets bupkis.)
This is interesting, because she may not be able to be removed, but I swear I 've read judges - don't know if civil and federal are different in this - can be reprimanded.
…”So, what is the nation’s remedy against a rogue (and potentially corrupt) district court judge? Impeachment is the only remedy offered by the Constitution in such situations. As for Judge Cannon, she deserves condemnation and ridicule for issuing a series of nonsense orders that would receive a failing grade in a law school civil procedure class...”
Terrific, what you crank out in a few minutes has great value. (Typos on the fly generally means something significant is being done.) BTW, the New York Times released a report with a direct link to the ruling. Your intricately detailed but accessible post on Richey - its context, substance in law, and history -- made it possible for me to read this rulings with a degree of comprehension I would not have had otherwise. (My field is art history.) I am so excited to be part of your community and encouraged by your deep commitment to bring us along on a steep learning curve. Thank you. Carol
This makes me so happy! It's what I'm trying to do (minus the typos, but thanks for your understanding. I was writing while I was getting ready to do TV)
My hunch is that it took the 11th Circuit nine days not to decide the case but to draft an opinion from which all traces of chortle and eyeroll had been removed. Well, *almost* all traces. Their exasperation is all the more eloquent for its subtlety. Unfortunately, Trump and his lawyers are too dense to realize how deftly they've been skewered.
Thank you Joyce, as always. Part of the lesson is that when you favor Mr. Trump, you better have a good reason to do so. Otherwise, your reputation will be forever sullied. Are you listening Judge Cannon?
The opinion was direct and strong. I listened to the oral argument and am pleased the opinion delivered a needed strong message.
Thank you for making this simple to understand for those of us who are not legal mavens.alll i can say is Glory Hallelujah! Questions for you...What does it take to get a judge at Cannon's level out of that position? What does it take for the attorneys representing Trump to be held to the high ethical standards we expect from attorneys who have passed the Bar and committed to practice before a federal court?
So, after reading, if I am understanding properly, there is a possibility of Justice Thomas, as well as other Judges to be impeached. How else will the courts be full of individuals that abide by the laws and the Constitution.
Like the 14th Amendment. Can all the crimes Donald committed keep him from ever running for any public office?
Wow. You know how at a baseball game, just the crack of a bat can make the stadium leap to their feet before they see the ball in flight? That’s how this ruling SOUNDS.
The entire Trumpist movement is predicated on flaunting self-serving belief in the face of reality. It is about narcissistic beliefs that elevate a movement of whiners who think they have a God-given right to stop time.
I am reminded of attorney Joseph Welch: "at long last have you no sense of decency?"
The answer is clearly "no". Even if 40% of voters remain deluded and clueless, I am thankful that justice can still be found in the law even if long escaped from politics.
Fabulous, Joyce! And no worries on typos. I’m so happy to have your thoughts hot off the press. I wouldn’t want you to have waited to proof it for typos before sharing. We’re your posse. Your thoughts and opinions are why we’re here. 👏
Thank you, Joyce. As an attorney (retired) who carefully followed my state’s ethical rules, I wonder how it is Trump’s attorneys aren’t sanctioned for filing a frivolous lawsuit or abuse of process? They didn’t even try to assert the first legal test to establish the court’s jurisdiction.
Agree, but there's not a hint of a sanctions motion evident here. They don't use the word frivolous at all, and I wonder if that reflects how much of this bad ruling is Judge Cannon going off the rails.
Overturning democracy is at the heart of this mans existence since he first started running for president, and he won't stop now. He is a spoiled, unqualified adult who wants to be in charge (and badly, at that) and won't take no for an answer. Section 3 of the 14th amendment must be invoked, and hopefully it will. He has committed crimes against the United States and should be prevented from ever holding office again. I await his indictment, possible guilty verdict, and would like to see him sentenced to prison time, just as you or I would receive for the same crimes he has committed.
Indeed, spot-on.. nicely articulated.👍👍
👍Waiting for the indictment of TFG for stealing, concealing and lying about possession of Top Secret/Classified documents. Ready for it
Yes, it's cut and dry and it's not just the classified documents - it's just about everything he knowingly stole and moved, and hid, and correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't heard much about the missing stolen documents (as in empty "Confidential" folders).
Can Cannon be removed (I think this falls ("fails" works here, too) to Congress...) or have the Bar reprimand her? I know he shopped for her and I don't understand why that's not an issue.
Yes, where are the other documents. Donald's old attorney said that Donald took documents with him in his travels. I am still wanting to know what is in the grave.
Thank you so much for this surgical reduction and clarification of the findings! Let’s hope the floodgates of Justice-for-all open now… Trump must finally face a long overdue comeuppance with Jail time and disqualify him from every being in any government office again. Lastly, this should now put down the pedal in a “Legal Bus that Judge Cannon is thrown under”… ie properly censured and taken to task and ideally removed from the bench. Deep sigh of relief and getting Popcorn ready.
That's a great phrase "surgical reduction". I agree and that's where reading the nerdy stuff is really interesting (and it may take me a while but it's really clarifying).
😊
We always knew that Cannon didn't have jurisdiction and that T hadn't passed the first Richey factor and now the 11th circuit has made this official. So happy to read your wonderful report - typos - shmypos - you're amazing. Thanks for disseminating this for us all.
Joyce: Can Judge Cannon somehow be reprimanded for what she did? Yes, she got slapped hard by the 11th Circuit, but what are the chances (if any) of her getting removed from office?
Zero. I think public humiliation is all that happens to her here.
Don't answer my question (above). I need to read everything before posting. Dang it, though. Narcissist's appointees don't feel humiliation.
Just talking to myself. Cannon has been front and center in the news lately as she had one call after another stripped from her idiotic ruling. Would someone ask her if she has any regrets about the "legal" calls she made :) ?
hahahahahahahahahaha
I heard that question asked by Ari. Answer was no 😞
Lawyers can be sanctioned for malpractice. Why can’t judges?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-sister-retires-from-the-bench-negating-judicial-ethics-complaints
It's, "All in the Family." They are getting away with it, so far. (But most of the Bunkers were sane. Even Archie came around.)
Thank you for reminding me of his shady sister. Now that somebody forced Trump to handover five or six years of his tax records I’ll be very interested to see if he ends up following Al Capone into Sing Sing. And if the fraudster gets indicted and convicted of tax fraud, it will be interesting to see if this sister‘s name comes up again. And I’m naïve and perhaps stupid enough to hope that if she was involved, that she gets outfitted with the orange jumpsuit too.
Part of fascism appears to be the speed at which events take place. So much garbage happens that we tend to forget about a lot of the bad stuff. My memory isn't that great but that bugged the heck out of me that she got away with it due to our broken system. Happy to remind you.
Oh my goodness! I had no idea that Donald had a sister that was once a judge. If his sister could be held accountable, then why not Cannon? Yep, she got away with it. Isn't that expected? She did have money.
Sister of the dope retired before anyone could come after her. Per Joyce, the worst that can happen to her is she'll feel ashamed (something that's inconsequential to her actions). https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-sister-retires-from-the-bench-negating-judicial-ethics-complaints (PBS calls her leaving "retiring" while HuffPo calls it resigning. Anyone, any idea? One would mean possible benefits and one means she gets bupkis.)
Darn!
Certainly no one will take her seriously for showing favor.
This is interesting, because she may not be able to be removed, but I swear I 've read judges - don't know if civil and federal are different in this - can be reprimanded.
As noted, I’m just reporting what I heard on MSNBC.
Heard it too from Weissmann on Nicole’s show
Yes! That’s who it was. THANKS
I think there would only be a case against her if Trump benefitted somehow from it, such as a dismissal of charges or proof she benefited financially.
Robert Hubbel writes:
…”So, what is the nation’s remedy against a rogue (and potentially corrupt) district court judge? Impeachment is the only remedy offered by the Constitution in such situations. As for Judge Cannon, she deserves condemnation and ridicule for issuing a series of nonsense orders that would receive a failing grade in a law school civil procedure class...”
Well, she was used to slow the process. Sad.
Terrific, what you crank out in a few minutes has great value. (Typos on the fly generally means something significant is being done.) BTW, the New York Times released a report with a direct link to the ruling. Your intricately detailed but accessible post on Richey - its context, substance in law, and history -- made it possible for me to read this rulings with a degree of comprehension I would not have had otherwise. (My field is art history.) I am so excited to be part of your community and encouraged by your deep commitment to bring us along on a steep learning curve. Thank you. Carol
This makes me so happy! It's what I'm trying to do (minus the typos, but thanks for your understanding. I was writing while I was getting ready to do TV)
My hunch is that it took the 11th Circuit nine days not to decide the case but to draft an opinion from which all traces of chortle and eyeroll had been removed. Well, *almost* all traces. Their exasperation is all the more eloquent for its subtlety. Unfortunately, Trump and his lawyers are too dense to realize how deftly they've been skewered.
Yes. I'd love to see the first draft.
Thanks so much for this. It's good to have my "non-professional opinion" of the decision verified by someone who knows what is what.
Humpty Trumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Trumpty had a great fall
All the King's horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty Trumpty together again.
Perfect summation.
hahahahahahahahahaha
Thank you Joyce, as always. Part of the lesson is that when you favor Mr. Trump, you better have a good reason to do so. Otherwise, your reputation will be forever sullied. Are you listening Judge Cannon?
The opinion was direct and strong. I listened to the oral argument and am pleased the opinion delivered a needed strong message.
Imagine the grin on my face as the Donald gets smacked down like the criminal he is....priceless....
What a great day for the rule of law!⚖️
Thank you for making this simple to understand for those of us who are not legal mavens.alll i can say is Glory Hallelujah! Questions for you...What does it take to get a judge at Cannon's level out of that position? What does it take for the attorneys representing Trump to be held to the high ethical standards we expect from attorneys who have passed the Bar and committed to practice before a federal court?
Typically, federal judges are only impeached for committing crimes. You can read a little bit more about how Congress has handled this here: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-4-10/ALDE_00000697/
Still seems there is a lot of ambiguity in the law relative to Congress’ handling of many of these instances re your link.
So, after reading, if I am understanding properly, there is a possibility of Justice Thomas, as well as other Judges to be impeached. How else will the courts be full of individuals that abide by the laws and the Constitution.
Like the 14th Amendment. Can all the crimes Donald committed keep him from ever running for any public office?
Wow. You know how at a baseball game, just the crack of a bat can make the stadium leap to their feet before they see the ball in flight? That’s how this ruling SOUNDS.
This is the part I have waited for.
The entire Trumpist movement is predicated on flaunting self-serving belief in the face of reality. It is about narcissistic beliefs that elevate a movement of whiners who think they have a God-given right to stop time.
I am reminded of attorney Joseph Welch: "at long last have you no sense of decency?"
The answer is clearly "no". Even if 40% of voters remain deluded and clueless, I am thankful that justice can still be found in the law even if long escaped from politics.
Speaking on stopping time. Can Cannon be held for Obstruction of Justice? It appears to me that that is what she did. Okay, not a lawyer.
Thank you so very much for sharing your knowledge and passion of the law with the rest of us. Words are not enough but they are all I possess.