Two terms is WAY more than enough… I hate that man with the fire of a super nova and will NEVER forgive what he and his followers have done to our country and our standing worldwide…
Jay Kuo had an interesting article on the subject:
“…the U.S. Constitution should be read as a whole to ensure consistency across its various parts. Allowing Trump a backdoor way to become President again by first being elected Vice President would create contradictions within the structure of the document. One provision, the 22nd Amendment, which broadly prohibits that outcome would be undone by the twisted reading of another, the 12th Amendment.”
I greatly respect Jay and his views but the notion of a "consistent reading" of the Constitution has NEVER been endorsed or followed by the Supreme Court. In fact, many decisions intentionally ignore any potential cross-interpretation and focus on specifically looking at a specific issue, article or amendment. In this case, the 22nd Amendment itself has loopholes so big that you could easily drive a Tesla Cybertruck through them. The simplest obvious anomaly is that the amendment refers consistently to the term "elected" and does not say anything about "holding" the office of President. In fact, those words were carefully chosen as at one point in time, the words "holding office" had been in a draft of the amendment and were later abandoned in favor of the specific word "elected".
Since being elected to and office and holding office are two different things, it is virtually certain to me that a willing Supreme Court would absolutely permit Trump to assume the office from another occupant without objection.
The only question will be would the person actually elected be willing to give up that office voluntarily to permit Trump to serve again? I am not so sure.
Justice Roberts seems to have come to his senses. I don’t think he is under Trump’s “spell” any longer. I predict the two usual Trump puppets, Alito & Thomas, will continue to vote in Trump’s favor, but there won’t be enough votes to pass.
Furthermore as Kuo states:
“The 12th Amendment, which sets out the system we still use today to select the President and Vice President, expressly states,
No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”
President Trump is ineligible to be President, therefore he is ineligible to be Vice President.
Trump is certainly "ineligible" to hold the office of president NOW according to the plain meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, however the Supreme Court gave him a pass by ruling against the findings of the Colorado Supreme Court. I don't know where that gets us in 2028 if he is still alive and willing to brazenly bend electoral politics to his advantage.
All I can say is that JD Vance is an arrogant fool, but if he goes through the process of campaigning and running...I must wonder if Vance would really be willing to just resign and let Trump have the office. Seems to me that he is assuming Vance is enough of a toadying lickspittle to hand over the Presidency? That assumption by itself is risky. Maybe Trump ISN'T saying the quiet part out loud???? What does Trump have planned that would make it certain that the Presidency would be handed back to him???
In addition, Trump must be pretty damn sure in his assumption that JD would win...another outcome that Trump treats as a sort of given. That makes me want to closely examine the doings of the various State electoral commissions that are majority Republican...are they "making sure" that Vance would win? Vance is NOT popular and he hasn't the social skill to connect with the MAGAt base.
AND would Vance be "acceptable" to voters? Dems or repubs.
I would hope & pray that somehow, someway, before that happens, possibly the older Democratic politicians, would allow the younger members to have a bigger voice.
I watched a hearing with Jerry Connelly, the ranking member, yesterday. To think that AOC might have been sitting there? No matter how many years hes "served" and no matter whether he believes its "his turn" - not a good choice.
Oh, that was assumed! If Vance couldn't connect with the MAGAts, then who ? The only base I can think of would be the tech bro oligarchs.......and although there are no doubt a good many of those, I don't think there are enough of them to truly consider them a "base" or even a voting block.
It's a long shot but Don Jr. may be able to get elected by MAGA if there are still enough of them by then and he would definitely give the title over to his daddy.
Jay I'm honored that you would comment back here! By the way, I loved Allegiance when I saw it at El Cerrito. Keep writing music and plays, and i wish you all the best!
A basic principle of Gestalt psychology is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Focus on one phrase alone, or examine how that phrase fits with the flow and intent of the section, the entire document, and the behind the body of knowledge that underlies the American spirit. Also see Stephen Breyer's book, Reading the Constitution.
Trump has made it clear since before the election that he is not planning on leaving office and he is also letting us know now that he does not need to follow any rules. However, he has not really tested the military. Like a true dictator, he may be working them up to violating the constitution fully.
We should be keeping an eye on how he is using the military at the borders, and other actions. So far he has not turned them onto protesters. He is not there yet, but I am sure it is planned. He also has his militia to call out. All of them have to be tested in their loyalty to him.
We need to be like South Korea and nip his use of militia and the military in the bud. In fact, I hope that people have signs on April 5 that say. "Trump should not be president." or "Remove Trump! He is violating the constitution. Replace him with someone who is true to our country"
I started to refute these one by one and then realized that would be futile. Suffice it to say, if you believe what you wrote, I will refer you to the British writer, theologian, and literary scholar C.S. Lewis, who once stated, "One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts."
Gosh James you seem awfully triggered. Much of the illegal immigration issue could have been mitigated when during the last Congress both parties agreed to the most stringent immigration reform ever. But your MAGA misanthrope Trumplethinskin threatened Repubs who were going to vote for it with being primaried. And like good little minions they fell in line and voted no. You see James, Trump engages in performances, he really is just a clown.He doesn't govern and changes his mind with the latest person that whispers in his ear. Usually the Goebbels look and act alike Stephen Miller his immigration whisperer. MAGAs going down hard and there won't be enough cover for all of you.
Get a little heated dontcha? Trumplethinskin's border policy and ad-hoc deportation operation work only if you're rounding up ONLY the bad guys. And it is evident that is not the case. But no matter, you have likely never heard of the concept of better ten guilty parties going free than one innocent being convicted, which is ascribed to William Blackstone in 1769. Take your meds, and be sure to keep owning the libs, cowboy.
Rule of law? What rule of law? The President of the United States obeys on the law of whim. End birthright citizenship. Run a third time. He swore an oath to obey the Constitution … but immediately defies it. Twice. And behaves in a crude, crass manner.
The 12th Amendment last line is as follows: "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.[1]"
Therefore, inasmuch as he is Constitutionally ineligible to serve another term as President, he is not eligible to serve as Vice-President.
There is no way JD would ever step aside/down if (GINORMOUS “IF!”) he were to even win - his ego is too bloated.
I think it’s pretty good to note that we’re even discussing the idea of voting again after drumpf said we would never “need to” again. That’s the only plus I’ve seen recently.
That was my first thought: How in the heck would JD ever win an election for POTUS?! He would really have to "wow" a helluva lot of people in the next 4 years to get even a tiny bit close to that possibility.
It is thought to be a trick that Vance would run for President and Trump for VP but after election Vance would forfeit the Presidency and then Trump would up again as President it as you can see, the 12th Amendment would not permit this scheme to work!
Well, he keeps telling Elon to "Cut Corners" and get him that new Boeing Air Force One ASAP. After Starliner stranding astronauts for 9 months and 737 Max doors blowing off and bolts popping out and a couple of crashes (those poor people🙏) , it may not be just the end of Boeing...it may just be the end of him too! With Elon and JD and his entire cabinet of cretins along for the ride. Send Tommy Tuberville and Marge and Bobo too.And everyone else I loathe too...oooh... Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito are always up for a freebie. I 'm sorry for the innocent pilots and flight attendants but we will give them the Presidential medal of Freedom. Posthumously🎖 This is war. I know this sounds terrible, but this is what they have reduced me to. Sorry. Not sorry. My new mantra.
Well, not everyone agrees that the 12th Amendment, written several hundred years ago, necessarily restricts this interpretation of the 22nd Amendment, which was passed over 150 years later.
I would think ithe 12th means what it says whether it was written before or after the 22nd? The framers of the 22nd certainly knew what was enshrined in the 12th?
Theoretically yes, but the question of what constitutes ineligibility to be President still rears its ugly head. Other than the three known restrictions in the Constitution (age, citizenship and residency), the only other restriction to be President is the insurrectionist clause of the 14th amendment, but I do not believe that works for Trump since he hasn't been convicted of insurrection or impeached and removed by the Senate.
So the only other ineligibility is the restriction on being ELECTED twice and again, that would not apply since in the conservative interpretation, that would not constitute an "ineligibility to BE president" but only on being elected president.
It is definitely uncharted territory and it would be up to the SCOTUS to make that decision in the end.
The problem with this interpretation of the "ineligible" clause is that the 22nd Amendment does NOT specifically declare him "ineligible to the office of President", it specifically (and directly) only says he can not be ELECTED again. As there are indeed other ways to become President (albeit rarely used ones like VP succession or even 25th Amendment moments) it is absolutely possible that the Supreme Court might refuse to endorse the idea that Trump is "ineligible to the office" but is merely ineligible to be ELECTED to the office. That would of course end-run the 12th Amendment and permit him to run as VP and then succeed to the office.
The big question IMHO would be whether JD Vance, once being elected to the Presidency, would be willing to give up that office by resigning.
There is something in my gut that says "no, not likely". JD Vance is a tree-climber and having reached the top, why would he voluntarily step down, especially since he would then limit his OWN ability to run for that office again (once elected, he would only be able to be elected one more time).
Its a quandary that hopefully we will never have to see decided by the SCOTUS which isn't exactly pro-democracy most of the time these days.
In spite of all the calculations and permutations, I can’t help feeling this is all a lot of pre-game yikyak. I don’t think Joyce’s piece is about figuring out all the outlandish possibilities. I think she is warning us to take action starting now that prevents any of these scenarios from having any chance to occur.
What can we do now to stop it? Build a resistance movement strong enough to topple this regime. Do the work to take back the House in 2026. Do the work to take back the Senate and the Presidency in 2028. These are the actions that will prevent any possibility of a Trump attempt at a third presidency. That’s where our work lies now. Not in feverish speculation.
Two things occurred to me. The first was Gerald Ford. Wasn’t he the only president that wasn’t elected? When Nixon’s VP (Rockefeller?) died, somehow Ford became the new VP. How was he chosen?
The second thing was that they have 3+ years to change the rules. Probably can’t get a new amendment passed in time but maybe they have thought of a way to misinterpret the rules/amendments as they are. Or just pass a new law of some sort to fix it their way.
Actually, Nixon's original VP was Spiro Agnew, who resigned in disgrace after pleading no contest to tax evasion. Nixon picked Ford to replace him, and he was approved by Congress as per the 25th amendment. Any new amendment must be approved by 3/4 of the states (which won't happen). The most likely way Trump stays in office after 2028 is that he becomes a dictator in the meantime, by controlling the military, the FBI and the Justice Department. Supporters of democracy need to do everything we can to prevent that.
Geez, guys, he already said we'd be so happy with the way the country was going that we wouldn't even have to vote again. He's got a scam planned that won't involve an election at all.
Actually I disagree that he can't be put back in IF he gets the right backing from enough people or officials. I do believe that if he runs for VP, that would be potentially legal under the Constitution since the restriction on running for VP is based on based on being ineligible for the office of President, NOT on being ineligible to be elected again. It is clear in the 22nd amendment he can't be elected again, but he could succeed to the office and I do not think the 12th amendment deals with that issue.
Another way he could weasel his way is would be to get appointed to be the Speaker of the House assuming Mike Johnson stepped down and then both the newly elected Pres and VP would resign and he would step up to that office again.
Of course depends on the support of all those others and it does beg the question just how loyal those others would be if he wasn't actually winning the office himself.
Again, I think this is a misreading of the two amendments. The 22nd amendment does NOT on its face place a restriction on SERVING another term as President, only on being ELECTED to another term. If that is true, it has no bearing on the 12th amendment since that restriction is if you are ineligible to hold the office. That final clause in #12 is to make sure there isn't a VP who isn't eligible to BE President (based on at the time the amendment was made the restrictions on being president, i.e., age >=35, being a citizen and being a resident for 14 years.). So if you are eligible to BE President, you can be Vice President. And the 22nd amendment only restricts being ELECTED president, it doesn't appear to restrict BEING the president for more than 2 terms.
At least that's the way I read both of those amendments. And the likelihood of any new amendments being passed these days is between 0 and minus 1.
Didn’t Putin use a similar approach between a couple of terms? Before he finished rigging elections in Russia? Could this be another example of Trump playing follow the leader!!!
Yes, but Putin was only 55 when his second term ended, and Trump will be 82 when his second term ends. I agree, Putin seems to be his role model. Trump could try to have Shady Vance or DJTJ elected in 2028, and hope to be elected Speaker of the House, and become president if POTUS and VPOTUS resign, but that seems unlikely.
What people don't realize is that nothing is written in stone when it comes to Trump. Paper burns and stone is not hammerproof. Such a weird dance we're all in surrounded by a precipice.
One wonders if he really swore an oath. Sure he said it, but a picture of the swearing in by AP Photos in January clearly shows that Trump had his left hand at his side, not on the Bible. Somehow I'm sure he will make something of this by saying that everyone thought this was his second term, but it's really not. This seems to be his way of getting his way. Incomprehensible, I know, but it does make you wonder!!
Therefore people should be calling for his removal. The Republicans really entrenched themselves into government when they ignored Trump's impeachment. Like the gangster boss that he is, he rules them, and they are the little gangsters, every last one of them, falling in line. I consider John Fetterman one of these despicable gangsters, hiding behind his both-sider-ism Independent label.
April 5 should see signs calling for Trump to be removed and replaced with someone who can follow the law. Instead of normalizing his behavior, normalize the idea of removing him and anyone else who does not follow the Constitution. "Get Trump the King out, Replace with Law Abiding American. An LAA Law Abiding American
Actually, did you notice that he didn’t place his hand on the Bible that Melania held for him, the last time he swore an oath to the constitution? IDK, because it wasn’t a “Trump Bible”, or was it not such a subtle hint as to what he thought of the constitution? Quite apparently, he’s never read it!
Don 't fall for the deflections...I mean there's Greenland, there's 51st state Canada, there's the Panama Canal, there of course is "The Tariffs"...now he's adding "third-term" to the noise. Jaysus almighty, we know his fecking game already...remember how the media got oh-so serious about his Canada "annexation" shite? Well, that dropped off, but suddenly we're transitioning into "Signalgate", where the POS had lost control of the narrative, and so, yeah, let him start throwing out a dump-truck load of BS about a "third-term something something".
NO, NO, NO, let's not be distracted, ffs, we know the playbook, it's been open to us for nearly 10 yrs, and even years before that. WE need to control the narrative, not him! Let's just keep nailing him on what he's DONE, not what he's SAYING! Way more political gain to be realized there than helping him along with his nonsensical fantasies.
Greenland is part of the United Kingdom of Denmark. Denmark was the founder of NATO. I’m not sure if NATO already has forces in Greenland but am certain they are on high alert.
Off-topic. Voted today in the Evanston city election. Live in the First District and again backed Clare Kelly. Her opponents mailer had language that was essentially code for “more high rises.”
I’m in the 7th Ward I voted for Most Livable City Candidates: Jeff and Parielle. I live one block from Ryan Field. (Sorry Joyce -Here in Evanston we have our frustrations)
Exactly, Lance. The oily magician’s sleight of hand — intentional misdirection to confuse the viewer. Keep our eyes on the prize handed to us on a platter: SIGNALGATE
Yes, it's so important NOT to forget that. It's already dimming in the eyes of the fickle public. And of course pammy says it's a closed issue. "The laws is what we say it is."
I've been thinking about the 51st State of Canada. That would be a pretty large state. Canada consists of 10 provinces, most of which are bigger than any other American state except Alaska and Texas, plus three territories which are very low population but big geographically.
If we WERE to incorporate Canada, it might be expected that we should add at LEAST 7-10 more states (the three territories would probably be included in the adjoining new states. Using our current allocations, we would give each new state 2 senators (per the constitution) and we would reapportion the 435 members of Congress across the current and new states.
Now think about that. We would instantly have a Senate that is from 14-20 senators bigger than today (2 Senators per state). The Congress would remain the same size (unless we changed that law) and Canada's states would get about 11% of the Congressional members (roughly 45 out of 435).
Given the liberalness of Canada, the likelihood that Democrats would now completely outnumber Republicans in the Senate AND the Congress could be a GOOD thing, not a bad one. The Republicans would have the scramble to figure out how to fix this and they might not be able to.
This is one of those cases where Trump should probably be careful what he wishes for...
At one time the US acd Canada had joint jurisdiction of the American Northwest. Some people in Oregon and Washington want to annul the arbitrary border and the leader of one Canadian party wants to annex the northwest and California.
We probably have more Canadians here in Baghdad By the Sea than Wyoming, or each of the Dakotas. More than in some Canadian provinces. Most pay income and high Florida reeal estate taxes. A lot have dual citizennship. Candian businesses employ about 54,000 Floidians. We usually get about 3 million Canadian visitors who bring in billions of dollars.
We also have more Hispanics per square inch than any other county. Although three of our House representatives are Cuban Americans Trump ended humaintatian visas for Cubans (and Venezuelans and Haitains). Although they are Republicans, they and virtually everone else are pissed at Trump/Musk.
Thank you! Yes! So much has already been lost to us, never to return. We need to talk about what he has & has not done!
Don’t really care about his tantrum of the day. Talk about no prosecutions or even indictments for supposedly abuse OR fraud…. Because they have found none. The only fraud and abuse has been perpetrated by DOGE, and their theft of information and deleting of records. Talk about how much the regime spent in February 2025 as opposed to 2024. Talk about what we have ALREADY lost!!! Show recordings of his lies and fake promises, there certainly are many to show. Start pushing the narrative truthfully!! Shout it from the rooftops. Trusk is dangerous, and we won’t take it any longer.
It’s his way of obfuscating, the Signalgate scandal is getting bigger, so he needs to create a diversion. Of course we need to be wary and make sure we monitor him carefully. But seriously, Signalgate is getting to him, and he has to actually be a leader and fire the principals in that scandal and he doesn’t want to, this a third term. Pfffft. He is more of a moron than I’d previously thought.
Depends on what his handlers, who pull his strings, decide. They do seem to be swayed if the maggots are angry, and it seems like they are joining the rest of us who are.
Reuters on 3/29: 100,000's of Turks protested the jailing of Erdogan's main rival, Ekrem Imamoglu. Ekrem's letter was read to a massive crowd: ************************
Good point, JayW. France did as well (Jacques Chirac), also Italy (Silvio Berlusconi), and the Philippines (Rodrigo Duterte). They all seemed to have an unassailable grip on the countries they headed. But at some point, they lost and the country turned on them. Good point to remember - despots and crooks will have their fall. What goes up will fall down.
He’s already senile now, what makes him think, which he never does, he’ll be capable of running again, which he can’t perform the Constitution! He’s using the age old bs: “people are asking me to run again” a made up line …
We should have paid far more attention back in 2016 when Trump *won* the election, then complained loudly that it must have been rigged because he hadn't secured the popular vote. Anyone else would have taken the win, been sworn into office, and gotten to work. But no: he had to convene an election commission to find out where his popular votes must have gone.
I know it seems like a long time ago -- and it was -- but the signs were there. He's never satisfied and will push or ignore the law as he wishes. I hope the Supreme Court can deal with the monster they helped create.
All Trump needs to do is stack the Supreme Court prior to the next elections. Then Roberts and co will dream up another sound basis for contravening the Constitution.
If only someone thought about putting that scenario in the Constitution to make it ironclad in that no President could ever regain the seat for a 3rd term! Holy hell, how can our laws stop this madness?
He’s morbidly obese, suffering from dementia, and binge eating Big Macs. His emotional state is anger, which creates very high blood pressure and rapid heart rate. He won’t make it much longer.
In his first term even, his speech pattern was circular, (not the weave necessarily) he starts and finishes a statement with the same words and what’s in the middle wanders. Reminded me of how mom spoke in late stage Alzheimer’s.
From your mouth to God's ear! He's probably eternally preserved from the junk he eats, so it's not impossible that the GOP would prop him up and give it a go. Heaven forbid!
When MAGAs realize how Trump policies screw them: "I blame Biden. He shoulda done a better job explaining how Trump's policies were gonna screw people like me. That's why I'm still MAGA.”
Trump World & CalvinBall: make rules up as you go...
Respectfully I want to say that Trump is doing this as a diversion from their foreign policy disaster and from the fact that the reconciliation bill that would slash Medicare, Medicaid and countless other programs that Americans depend on is on the Senate floor this week. We need to focus on that. We’ve got lots of time to deal with the third term issue. We have only this week to try to stop these massive cuts in the Senate bill.
A patient I once cared for had dementia. She used to say she was on a cruise ship, and it was the nicest one she had ever been on. Insanity doesn't make sense...to those who are sane.
Two terms is WAY more than enough… I hate that man with the fire of a super nova and will NEVER forgive what he and his followers have done to our country and our standing worldwide…
Jay Kuo had an interesting article on the subject:
“…the U.S. Constitution should be read as a whole to ensure consistency across its various parts. Allowing Trump a backdoor way to become President again by first being elected Vice President would create contradictions within the structure of the document. One provision, the 22nd Amendment, which broadly prohibits that outcome would be undone by the twisted reading of another, the 12th Amendment.”
https://open.substack.com/pub/statuskuo/p/a-third-trump-term
I greatly respect Jay and his views but the notion of a "consistent reading" of the Constitution has NEVER been endorsed or followed by the Supreme Court. In fact, many decisions intentionally ignore any potential cross-interpretation and focus on specifically looking at a specific issue, article or amendment. In this case, the 22nd Amendment itself has loopholes so big that you could easily drive a Tesla Cybertruck through them. The simplest obvious anomaly is that the amendment refers consistently to the term "elected" and does not say anything about "holding" the office of President. In fact, those words were carefully chosen as at one point in time, the words "holding office" had been in a draft of the amendment and were later abandoned in favor of the specific word "elected".
Since being elected to and office and holding office are two different things, it is virtually certain to me that a willing Supreme Court would absolutely permit Trump to assume the office from another occupant without objection.
The only question will be would the person actually elected be willing to give up that office voluntarily to permit Trump to serve again? I am not so sure.
Justice Roberts seems to have come to his senses. I don’t think he is under Trump’s “spell” any longer. I predict the two usual Trump puppets, Alito & Thomas, will continue to vote in Trump’s favor, but there won’t be enough votes to pass.
Furthermore as Kuo states:
“The 12th Amendment, which sets out the system we still use today to select the President and Vice President, expressly states,
No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”
President Trump is ineligible to be President, therefore he is ineligible to be Vice President.
Trump is certainly "ineligible" to hold the office of president NOW according to the plain meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, however the Supreme Court gave him a pass by ruling against the findings of the Colorado Supreme Court. I don't know where that gets us in 2028 if he is still alive and willing to brazenly bend electoral politics to his advantage.
I believe Marlo citing Jay Kuo has it correctly deducted. I believe Neal Katyal would concur. Note, Neal completed 51 oral arguments at SCOTUS.
OMG. This whole thing is so scary, and you have just scared me even more. :-(
Jocelyn B - I join you in this fear. :-(
All I can say is that JD Vance is an arrogant fool, but if he goes through the process of campaigning and running...I must wonder if Vance would really be willing to just resign and let Trump have the office. Seems to me that he is assuming Vance is enough of a toadying lickspittle to hand over the Presidency? That assumption by itself is risky. Maybe Trump ISN'T saying the quiet part out loud???? What does Trump have planned that would make it certain that the Presidency would be handed back to him???
In addition, Trump must be pretty damn sure in his assumption that JD would win...another outcome that Trump treats as a sort of given. That makes me want to closely examine the doings of the various State electoral commissions that are majority Republican...are they "making sure" that Vance would win? Vance is NOT popular and he hasn't the social skill to connect with the MAGAt base.
Questions...questions.
AND would Vance be "acceptable" to voters? Dems or repubs.
I would hope & pray that somehow, someway, before that happens, possibly the older Democratic politicians, would allow the younger members to have a bigger voice.
I watched a hearing with Jerry Connelly, the ranking member, yesterday. To think that AOC might have been sitting there? No matter how many years hes "served" and no matter whether he believes its "his turn" - not a good choice.
No argument here! I do wish the 'old guard' (and I'm def old enough to be classed as old guard) could let go of power more gracefully. Sigh.
Yeah - I'm right there with you! Actually let go of power at all!!!!
Or any other base, T.
Oh, that was assumed! If Vance couldn't connect with the MAGAts, then who ? The only base I can think of would be the tech bro oligarchs.......and although there are no doubt a good many of those, I don't think there are enough of them to truly consider them a "base" or even a voting block.
It's a long shot but Don Jr. may be able to get elected by MAGA if there are still enough of them by then and he would definitely give the title over to his daddy.
This is more of an aspirational argument than one steeped in reality, agreed.
Jay I'm honored that you would comment back here! By the way, I loved Allegiance when I saw it at El Cerrito. Keep writing music and plays, and i wish you all the best!
A basic principle of Gestalt psychology is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Focus on one phrase alone, or examine how that phrase fits with the flow and intent of the section, the entire document, and the behind the body of knowledge that underlies the American spirit. Also see Stephen Breyer's book, Reading the Constitution.
Exactly!!
Trump has made it clear since before the election that he is not planning on leaving office and he is also letting us know now that he does not need to follow any rules. However, he has not really tested the military. Like a true dictator, he may be working them up to violating the constitution fully.
We should be keeping an eye on how he is using the military at the borders, and other actions. So far he has not turned them onto protesters. He is not there yet, but I am sure it is planned. He also has his militia to call out. All of them have to be tested in their loyalty to him.
We need to be like South Korea and nip his use of militia and the military in the bud. In fact, I hope that people have signs on April 5 that say. "Trump should not be president." or "Remove Trump! He is violating the constitution. Replace him with someone who is true to our country"
I agree with you 100%!
Joyce closed with " Two is more than enough." But really, it was two terms too many.
-Illegals down 95%
- Hostages returned to Israel
- Astronauts returned from space (left to die by BIDEN)
- Peace between Israel Hamas
- Peace between Ukraine & Russia
- 5 Trillion in new infrastructure investment
- THOUSANDS of criminals deported
- GIRS safe from BOYS in their locker rooms
- 200 Billion in fraud eliminate
- FAIR trade with TARIFFS that protect AMerican workers
50% Approval rating vs 21% for Democrats.
We won't forgive how you wanted to destroy America.
James A. WHO ARE you? What planet are you living on? You lie just like Trump, Musk & Vance.
LIE? - Name one thing I SAID THAT WAS UNTRUE?
NAME one lie?
I started to refute these one by one and then realized that would be futile. Suffice it to say, if you believe what you wrote, I will refer you to the British writer, theologian, and literary scholar C.S. Lewis, who once stated, "One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts."
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. You are the LIAR.
LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOUR PARTY let 11,000,000 Illegals into the country INCLUDING thousands of gang members who murdered AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Too bad if you don’t like it.
Feel free to take the side of criminals. ITS WHY the Democrats have a 21% approval rating.
Gosh James you seem awfully triggered. Much of the illegal immigration issue could have been mitigated when during the last Congress both parties agreed to the most stringent immigration reform ever. But your MAGA misanthrope Trumplethinskin threatened Repubs who were going to vote for it with being primaried. And like good little minions they fell in line and voted no. You see James, Trump engages in performances, he really is just a clown.He doesn't govern and changes his mind with the latest person that whispers in his ear. Usually the Goebbels look and act alike Stephen Miller his immigration whisperer. MAGAs going down hard and there won't be enough cover for all of you.
BIDEN and the left tried to blame the REpublicans for the border. IT WAS A LIE.
TRUMP stopped illegal immigration by 95% in 2 weeks. Simple. He let ICE and border agents do their jobs.
End of story.
Get a little heated dontcha? Trumplethinskin's border policy and ad-hoc deportation operation work only if you're rounding up ONLY the bad guys. And it is evident that is not the case. But no matter, you have likely never heard of the concept of better ten guilty parties going free than one innocent being convicted, which is ascribed to William Blackstone in 1769. Take your meds, and be sure to keep owning the libs, cowboy.
Rule of law? What rule of law? The President of the United States obeys on the law of whim. End birthright citizenship. Run a third time. He swore an oath to obey the Constitution … but immediately defies it. Twice. And behaves in a crude, crass manner.
The 12th Amendment last line is as follows: "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.[1]"
Therefore, inasmuch as he is Constitutionally ineligible to serve another term as President, he is not eligible to serve as Vice-President.
There is no way JD would ever step aside/down if (GINORMOUS “IF!”) he were to even win - his ego is too bloated.
I think it’s pretty good to note that we’re even discussing the idea of voting again after drumpf said we would never “need to” again. That’s the only plus I’ve seen recently.
I would put my money on President JD exercising the authority granted by the Supreme Court to have a SEAL team shoot Trump while trying to escape.
Or, in accordance with Trump's own declaration, Vance could just shoot Trump himself:
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
No crime there, right?
💯
That was my first thought: How in the heck would JD ever win an election for POTUS?! He would really have to "wow" a helluva lot of people in the next 4 years to get even a tiny bit close to that possibility.
The next four years is a scary thought...
There is no way he will accept a VP position. Too much ego.
It is thought to be a trick that Vance would run for President and Trump for VP but after election Vance would forfeit the Presidency and then Trump would up again as President it as you can see, the 12th Amendment would not permit this scheme to work!
TFG could just stroke out, on live TV... just sayin
I see him falling down the Air Force One stairs… a girl can dream, can’t she?
Only when the plane is at 40,000 feet and someone opens the air door. :-)
no need for proof of life when broadcast either way, maybe even stroke out and live, he has has the diaper part down
Well, he keeps telling Elon to "Cut Corners" and get him that new Boeing Air Force One ASAP. After Starliner stranding astronauts for 9 months and 737 Max doors blowing off and bolts popping out and a couple of crashes (those poor people🙏) , it may not be just the end of Boeing...it may just be the end of him too! With Elon and JD and his entire cabinet of cretins along for the ride. Send Tommy Tuberville and Marge and Bobo too.And everyone else I loathe too...oooh... Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito are always up for a freebie. I 'm sorry for the innocent pilots and flight attendants but we will give them the Presidential medal of Freedom. Posthumously🎖 This is war. I know this sounds terrible, but this is what they have reduced me to. Sorry. Not sorry. My new mantra.
🙏
Well, not everyone agrees that the 12th Amendment, written several hundred years ago, necessarily restricts this interpretation of the 22nd Amendment, which was passed over 150 years later.
I would think ithe 12th means what it says whether it was written before or after the 22nd? The framers of the 22nd certainly knew what was enshrined in the 12th?
Theoretically yes, but the question of what constitutes ineligibility to be President still rears its ugly head. Other than the three known restrictions in the Constitution (age, citizenship and residency), the only other restriction to be President is the insurrectionist clause of the 14th amendment, but I do not believe that works for Trump since he hasn't been convicted of insurrection or impeached and removed by the Senate.
So the only other ineligibility is the restriction on being ELECTED twice and again, that would not apply since in the conservative interpretation, that would not constitute an "ineligibility to BE president" but only on being elected president.
It is definitely uncharted territory and it would be up to the SCOTUS to make that decision in the end.
This was my understanding, too.
Trump thinks the Constitution has something to do with peristalsis … he doesn’t care.
The problem with this interpretation of the "ineligible" clause is that the 22nd Amendment does NOT specifically declare him "ineligible to the office of President", it specifically (and directly) only says he can not be ELECTED again. As there are indeed other ways to become President (albeit rarely used ones like VP succession or even 25th Amendment moments) it is absolutely possible that the Supreme Court might refuse to endorse the idea that Trump is "ineligible to the office" but is merely ineligible to be ELECTED to the office. That would of course end-run the 12th Amendment and permit him to run as VP and then succeed to the office.
The big question IMHO would be whether JD Vance, once being elected to the Presidency, would be willing to give up that office by resigning.
There is something in my gut that says "no, not likely". JD Vance is a tree-climber and having reached the top, why would he voluntarily step down, especially since he would then limit his OWN ability to run for that office again (once elected, he would only be able to be elected one more time).
Its a quandary that hopefully we will never have to see decided by the SCOTUS which isn't exactly pro-democracy most of the time these days.
In spite of all the calculations and permutations, I can’t help feeling this is all a lot of pre-game yikyak. I don’t think Joyce’s piece is about figuring out all the outlandish possibilities. I think she is warning us to take action starting now that prevents any of these scenarios from having any chance to occur.
What can we do now to stop it? Build a resistance movement strong enough to topple this regime. Do the work to take back the House in 2026. Do the work to take back the Senate and the Presidency in 2028. These are the actions that will prevent any possibility of a Trump attempt at a third presidency. That’s where our work lies now. Not in feverish speculation.
Hard to say if Democracy can last that long. Someone said April 20th is the date to aim for.
I believe all of these questions will ultimately be decided by the Heritage Foundation.
Dunno about that, mate. Old JD of the many name and identity changes would do pretty much anything for the right amount of dogecoin
Two things occurred to me. The first was Gerald Ford. Wasn’t he the only president that wasn’t elected? When Nixon’s VP (Rockefeller?) died, somehow Ford became the new VP. How was he chosen?
The second thing was that they have 3+ years to change the rules. Probably can’t get a new amendment passed in time but maybe they have thought of a way to misinterpret the rules/amendments as they are. Or just pass a new law of some sort to fix it their way.
Actually, Nixon's original VP was Spiro Agnew, who resigned in disgrace after pleading no contest to tax evasion. Nixon picked Ford to replace him, and he was approved by Congress as per the 25th amendment. Any new amendment must be approved by 3/4 of the states (which won't happen). The most likely way Trump stays in office after 2028 is that he becomes a dictator in the meantime, by controlling the military, the FBI and the Justice Department. Supporters of democracy need to do everything we can to prevent that.
Geez, guys, he already said we'd be so happy with the way the country was going that we wouldn't even have to vote again. He's got a scam planned that won't involve an election at all.
Actually I disagree that he can't be put back in IF he gets the right backing from enough people or officials. I do believe that if he runs for VP, that would be potentially legal under the Constitution since the restriction on running for VP is based on based on being ineligible for the office of President, NOT on being ineligible to be elected again. It is clear in the 22nd amendment he can't be elected again, but he could succeed to the office and I do not think the 12th amendment deals with that issue.
Another way he could weasel his way is would be to get appointed to be the Speaker of the House assuming Mike Johnson stepped down and then both the newly elected Pres and VP would resign and he would step up to that office again.
Of course depends on the support of all those others and it does beg the question just how loyal those others would be if he wasn't actually winning the office himself.
So let's make sure he gets impeached and convicted this time. Somehow.
Thanks for your corrections. I should have looked it up before I commented.
YW! Don't be hard on yourself, Barbara - we're here to help each other get smarter and help save our constitutional democracy!
Again, I think this is a misreading of the two amendments. The 22nd amendment does NOT on its face place a restriction on SERVING another term as President, only on being ELECTED to another term. If that is true, it has no bearing on the 12th amendment since that restriction is if you are ineligible to hold the office. That final clause in #12 is to make sure there isn't a VP who isn't eligible to BE President (based on at the time the amendment was made the restrictions on being president, i.e., age >=35, being a citizen and being a resident for 14 years.). So if you are eligible to BE President, you can be Vice President. And the 22nd amendment only restricts being ELECTED president, it doesn't appear to restrict BEING the president for more than 2 terms.
At least that's the way I read both of those amendments. And the likelihood of any new amendments being passed these days is between 0 and minus 1.
I sincerely hope they don’t invite you to their planning committee meetings.
Don't worry. It's never happened and I doubt it ever will. LOL
He obeys the law only by accident. He purposefully did not touch the bible when he "took the oath." He's a one-bit scam artist.
No hand on the Bible does NOT negate the Oath!
A three-card monte artist with a sideline of gen-u-wine Rolexes.
And with more and more scams stacking up in his favor, he becomes more confident. Three terms…
could it really happen?
Have to see how much the citizenry are hurting…
Didn’t Putin use a similar approach between a couple of terms? Before he finished rigging elections in Russia? Could this be another example of Trump playing follow the leader!!!
Yes, but Putin was only 55 when his second term ended, and Trump will be 82 when his second term ends. I agree, Putin seems to be his role model. Trump could try to have Shady Vance or DJTJ elected in 2028, and hope to be elected Speaker of the House, and become president if POTUS and VPOTUS resign, but that seems unlikely.
And “public acclaim” for a third term is solely in his self-deluded mind. The cult will repeat anything; other right wingers, not so sure.
Oh Lord! But, thank you for the Shay-Dee Vance reference.
What people don't realize is that nothing is written in stone when it comes to Trump. Paper burns and stone is not hammerproof. Such a weird dance we're all in surrounded by a precipice.
One wonders if he really swore an oath. Sure he said it, but a picture of the swearing in by AP Photos in January clearly shows that Trump had his left hand at his side, not on the Bible. Somehow I'm sure he will make something of this by saying that everyone thought this was his second term, but it's really not. This seems to be his way of getting his way. Incomprehensible, I know, but it does make you wonder!!
Oh he swore all right—he’s rather famous for swearing. Aloud (so he couldn’t misspell) … his very words bring dignity and respect to the office. Not.
Therefore people should be calling for his removal. The Republicans really entrenched themselves into government when they ignored Trump's impeachment. Like the gangster boss that he is, he rules them, and they are the little gangsters, every last one of them, falling in line. I consider John Fetterman one of these despicable gangsters, hiding behind his both-sider-ism Independent label.
April 5 should see signs calling for Trump to be removed and replaced with someone who can follow the law. Instead of normalizing his behavior, normalize the idea of removing him and anyone else who does not follow the Constitution. "Get Trump the King out, Replace with Law Abiding American. An LAA Law Abiding American
In 2003 the governor of California, Gray Davis, was recalled and finally replaced with Arnold Schwarzenegger … just thinkin’ out loud.
Actually, did you notice that he didn’t place his hand on the Bible that Melania held for him, the last time he swore an oath to the constitution? IDK, because it wasn’t a “Trump Bible”, or was it not such a subtle hint as to what he thought of the constitution? Quite apparently, he’s never read it!
And he probably hasn’t place a hand on Melania since Stormy days …
Don 't fall for the deflections...I mean there's Greenland, there's 51st state Canada, there's the Panama Canal, there of course is "The Tariffs"...now he's adding "third-term" to the noise. Jaysus almighty, we know his fecking game already...remember how the media got oh-so serious about his Canada "annexation" shite? Well, that dropped off, but suddenly we're transitioning into "Signalgate", where the POS had lost control of the narrative, and so, yeah, let him start throwing out a dump-truck load of BS about a "third-term something something".
NO, NO, NO, let's not be distracted, ffs, we know the playbook, it's been open to us for nearly 10 yrs, and even years before that. WE need to control the narrative, not him! Let's just keep nailing him on what he's DONE, not what he's SAYING! Way more political gain to be realized there than helping him along with his nonsensical fantasies.
Greenland is part of the United Kingdom of Denmark. Denmark was the founder of NATO. I’m not sure if NATO already has forces in Greenland but am certain they are on high alert.
Off-topic. Voted today in the Evanston city election. Live in the First District and again backed Clare Kelly. Her opponents mailer had language that was essentially code for “more high rises.”
I’m in the 7th Ward I voted for Most Livable City Candidates: Jeff and Parielle. I live one block from Ryan Field. (Sorry Joyce -Here in Evanston we have our frustrations)
Well, there’s 200-odd US troops visited last week
Exactly, Lance. The oily magician’s sleight of hand — intentional misdirection to confuse the viewer. Keep our eyes on the prize handed to us on a platter: SIGNALGATE
Yes, it's so important NOT to forget that. It's already dimming in the eyes of the fickle public. And of course pammy says it's a closed issue. "The laws is what we say it is."
As for Canada, King Charles owns more than 90% of the land. Is Trump going to buy it from the royal family?
Dean Blundell, a Canadian journalist, has a Substack I now subscribe to $. Very informative.
I hear they could use the money....
I've been thinking about the 51st State of Canada. That would be a pretty large state. Canada consists of 10 provinces, most of which are bigger than any other American state except Alaska and Texas, plus three territories which are very low population but big geographically.
If we WERE to incorporate Canada, it might be expected that we should add at LEAST 7-10 more states (the three territories would probably be included in the adjoining new states. Using our current allocations, we would give each new state 2 senators (per the constitution) and we would reapportion the 435 members of Congress across the current and new states.
Now think about that. We would instantly have a Senate that is from 14-20 senators bigger than today (2 Senators per state). The Congress would remain the same size (unless we changed that law) and Canada's states would get about 11% of the Congressional members (roughly 45 out of 435).
Given the liberalness of Canada, the likelihood that Democrats would now completely outnumber Republicans in the Senate AND the Congress could be a GOOD thing, not a bad one. The Republicans would have the scramble to figure out how to fix this and they might not be able to.
This is one of those cases where Trump should probably be careful what he wishes for...
...he might get it!
I like the way you think!!
Lets make a deal.
At one time the US acd Canada had joint jurisdiction of the American Northwest. Some people in Oregon and Washington want to annul the arbitrary border and the leader of one Canadian party wants to annex the northwest and California.
We probably have more Canadians here in Baghdad By the Sea than Wyoming, or each of the Dakotas. More than in some Canadian provinces. Most pay income and high Florida reeal estate taxes. A lot have dual citizennship. Candian businesses employ about 54,000 Floidians. We usually get about 3 million Canadian visitors who bring in billions of dollars.
We also have more Hispanics per square inch than any other county. Although three of our House representatives are Cuban Americans Trump ended humaintatian visas for Cubans (and Venezuelans and Haitains). Although they are Republicans, they and virtually everone else are pissed at Trump/Musk.
Listening to Vance's sales pittch, what if each state vote its will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
Thank you! Yes! So much has already been lost to us, never to return. We need to talk about what he has & has not done!
Don’t really care about his tantrum of the day. Talk about no prosecutions or even indictments for supposedly abuse OR fraud…. Because they have found none. The only fraud and abuse has been perpetrated by DOGE, and their theft of information and deleting of records. Talk about how much the regime spent in February 2025 as opposed to 2024. Talk about what we have ALREADY lost!!! Show recordings of his lies and fake promises, there certainly are many to show. Start pushing the narrative truthfully!! Shout it from the rooftops. Trusk is dangerous, and we won’t take it any longer.
Here, read Josh Marshall's cogent dismissal about playing tRump's game and going into the constitutional weeds to sort out his "musings":
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/dont-make-an-idol-out-of-donald-trumps-will
Liked and liked some more, Lance!
It’s his way of obfuscating, the Signalgate scandal is getting bigger, so he needs to create a diversion. Of course we need to be wary and make sure we monitor him carefully. But seriously, Signalgate is getting to him, and he has to actually be a leader and fire the principals in that scandal and he doesn’t want to, this a third term. Pfffft. He is more of a moron than I’d previously thought.
He is deeply and hopelessly deluded, which is not quite the same thing, but has a similar result.
What makes you think that Trump will fire any of the people on that Signal chat, most of whom were his appointees?
Depends on what his handlers, who pull his strings, decide. They do seem to be swayed if the maggots are angry, and it seems like they are joining the rest of us who are.
Two is two too many.
My thoughts exactly!
France and Brazil obviously know what to do with fascist megalomaniacs that break the law to assume power. Come on America!!!
South Koreans, too.
And there’s lots going on in Turkey as well.
Reuters on 3/29: 100,000's of Turks protested the jailing of Erdogan's main rival, Ekrem Imamoglu. Ekrem's letter was read to a massive crowd: ************************
"I have no fear because the nation is united."
Good point, JayW. France did as well (Jacques Chirac), also Italy (Silvio Berlusconi), and the Philippines (Rodrigo Duterte). They all seemed to have an unassailable grip on the countries they headed. But at some point, they lost and the country turned on them. Good point to remember - despots and crooks will have their fall. What goes up will fall down.
Let Trump keep dancing in the mine field….sooner or later he will step on one 🤞
He’s already senile now, what makes him think, which he never does, he’ll be capable of running again, which he can’t perform the Constitution! He’s using the age old bs: “people are asking me to run again” a made up line …
He’s not going to live that long. Binge eating Big Macs will take care of that. He’s already morbidly obese.
So many of us are keeping our fingers crossed.
I’m betting (hoping) he’ll be pushing up daisies by November, 2028.
or tomorrow.......
Is he senile or is his lifelong stupidity just on fuller (constant) display?
We should have paid far more attention back in 2016 when Trump *won* the election, then complained loudly that it must have been rigged because he hadn't secured the popular vote. Anyone else would have taken the win, been sworn into office, and gotten to work. But no: he had to convene an election commission to find out where his popular votes must have gone.
I know it seems like a long time ago -- and it was -- but the signs were there. He's never satisfied and will push or ignore the law as he wishes. I hope the Supreme Court can deal with the monster they helped create.
The only Supreme Court that can "deal" with him will be a future iteration that includes fewer Federalist Society darlings.
All Trump needs to do is stack the Supreme Court prior to the next elections. Then Roberts and co will dream up another sound basis for contravening the Constitution.
Same thought. A younger Alito and a younger, whiter Thomas.
If only someone thought about putting that scenario in the Constitution to make it ironclad in that no President could ever regain the seat for a 3rd term! Holy hell, how can our laws stop this madness?
He won't last this term!
McDonald’s is making sure of that 🤣
He’s morbidly obese, suffering from dementia, and binge eating Big Macs. His emotional state is anger, which creates very high blood pressure and rapid heart rate. He won’t make it much longer.
I’m watching for the dysphasia.
He’s already sundowning. It was obvious during the campaign
In his first term even, his speech pattern was circular, (not the weave necessarily) he starts and finishes a statement with the same words and what’s in the middle wanders. Reminded me of how mom spoke in late stage Alzheimer’s.
He's also turning 79 in June. Hardly a spring chicken, and he'll be 82 in 2028. Actually older than Biden was.
From your mouth to God's ear! He's probably eternally preserved from the junk he eats, so it's not impossible that the GOP would prop him up and give it a go. Heaven forbid!
Weekend at Bernie's.
"Prop me up by the juke box if i die..."
He isn’t producing or directing; he’s acting and promoting - all he’s ever done.
When MAGAs realize how Trump policies screw them: "I blame Biden. He shoulda done a better job explaining how Trump's policies were gonna screw people like me. That's why I'm still MAGA.”
Trump World & CalvinBall: make rules up as you go...
Respectfully I want to say that Trump is doing this as a diversion from their foreign policy disaster and from the fact that the reconciliation bill that would slash Medicare, Medicaid and countless other programs that Americans depend on is on the Senate floor this week. We need to focus on that. We’ve got lots of time to deal with the third term issue. We have only this week to try to stop these massive cuts in the Senate bill.
A patient I once cared for had dementia. She used to say she was on a cruise ship, and it was the nicest one she had ever been on. Insanity doesn't make sense...to those who are sane.
Hey Guys! NOW ON THE FLOOR… ALL NIGHTER… CORY BOOKER… PROTESTS TRUMP AND MUSK… JOIN HIM… https://www.youtube.com/live/v2utlMxAwtE?si=blLoN-QWHYx0qwox
No. Since he's not eligible to be President he is not eligible to be Vice President. But he will surely try, unfortunately.
We need a puppy fix! Know Elsa is growing like crazy and going to conquer the World!
Take care, Joyce! You are so busy.
Your comment is a 5 Star Rating. 💯