These days, it's a race to the bottom to see who can move more slowly to decide important issues related to the former president that are in front of them: Judge Aileen Cannon or the Supreme Court. It is a tense moment in our history, abetted by a slow-moving federal judiciary.
I remain deeply disappointed that in all of the analysis I heard very little commentary about fact-checking. Trump was allowed to simply spout a stream of nonsense without any consequences.
Tune in to Keith Olberman tomorrow. He kept notes of the felon’s lies and ran out of paper. He’ll be available on You Tube. He was irate tonight over CNN, Bash and Tapper. He also said that the President had come down with a cold ergo the hoarseness and the persistent need to cough.
Then they should have shut off his microphone. He showed what a bully he is. And that SMIRK! it’s all about him. Ugly. Nasty. Liar. Biden won the night with the line — he has the morals of an alley cat. Tapper even said thank you to Donnie after he did not answer a question. I did not hear Biden use an important 4 letter word: WALL. 💩🎃🤡🤯🤮😩
I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
I don't think Trump really won either, at least not with Biden supporters and folks on the fence who follow current events and know Trump is the worlds greatest, yes... liar!
I’m thinking Joe was under the weather having a cold or sore throat or both. He’s been “running” around and flying Europe for D-Day, G7, and then the fundraiser in CA. On top of that his son Hunter was convicted. He was spent and then a week or working for the debate. It’s a pace I couldn’t keep up. I felt sorry for him and then switching emotions to anger at CNN. The moderators were obviously favoring djt. I couldn’t believe it. No wonder I don’t like CNN, along with the New York Times and the WaPo. Horrible media. Were they threatened to do what they are doing? 🤷
All I could think of was how successfully the TFG minions worked the refs to such a degree that Tapper was totally neutered. Bash is inept, so there wasn’t much to hope for with her.
I think the emphasis on the importance of the debate that we heard from the media during the week leading up to the debate was absurd. Pundits were saying everything was on the line—the election, our democracy, the fate of the world.
Biden had obviously over-prepared and was probably understandably nervous. He was quoting statistics—and getting some of them confused. Trump was just making up his own numbers.
I wonder if perhaps having the so-called debate go about as badly as it possibly might have freed Joe to just be himself the next day in Raleigh (yay for my state)!
I think as long as Trump is just going to stand on stage and freebase MAGA disinformation, debating him is pointless, and there should be no more debates with him.
I do hope that the campaign will put a link on the website to something called “The Debate Fact-Checked” with “Trump’s Claim” on one side and “The Facts” on the other. Under “The Facts,” use Trump’s own words (video if possible), Republicans corroborating them, text from “Project 2025,” and so on. Then promote it heavily for people who really want to “do their own research.” Campaign tech workers should monitor it constantly to ensure it’s not hacked.
CNN has been leaning right for a good while now. That makes them a poor Choice to moderate. I feel like all media is doing their best to run him out of the race with their bigoted, cruel discipline 24/7! It is the death knell to every senior now & in the future! We want Biden!!!
I'm not sure. Biden was full of fire and vim the next day, so his abysmal performance seems unlikely to be related to D-Day, Hunter, etc. If he overworked himself trying to memorize useless facts in debate prep, well, then that's a black mark too. To an average politician, the rules seemed pretty fair: with his mic on, Trump lies and bluster, but then his mic is turned off. That should have allowed Biden to totally hammer him, indeed, Biden chose those rules for exactly that reason. But instead he flubbed every rebuttal. And when Trump was talking, Biden just stared off into the air making really wierd facial expressions like he was surprised Trump would lie. Maybe all that Botox has removed capability of him to look normal? If Biden's team knew he was not up to the job he shouldn't have pushed to do the debate, but he did, so that's another black mark to.
And then on Monday, SCOTUS will decide that , "sure", sometimes Presidents can be King's if they want to.
Have you read the NYT this morning? Nothing about continuous lies from the blob, only about Biden and all the ways he “lost”. Completely irresponsible.
Remember, "but her emails?" So do I. Thanks Maggie, you're a real gem, just like your mentor, Nixon speech writer and NY Times columnist William Safire.
Sorry, but NYT has in fact been talking about Trump's lies. However, it's hard to argue that Trump lying is news. Meanwhile Biden's performance was astonishingly abysmal. That is news. So seems reasonable that an editor would place the second story above the first. But both stories are there.
It's true that Trump's lying is not new information. But you can't ignore it because it's familiar. People forget, and this is part of his strategy: wear them down by repeatedly repeating the lie, the lie, the lie. It is incumbent on the media to repeatedly point out that Trump was lying then, is lying now, and will lie in the future. "Yet another lie from the former president ... " would be a good opener.
For sure, I wish the NYTimes, Post, etc, would spend more time thrashing Trump. The question at hand was whether the Times mentioned his lies at all (Answer: it did, but you could argue it should do more). And then a second question is how Biden could have screwed this up so badly. It's hard to argue that his screw-up is not newsworthy and it is definitely something that I want to read about as the details leak out.
Okay. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I say the media because that’s what CNN is and they did a shitty job last night. Why oh why did djt get so much time to spew his maga (get it?) lies while Biden got cut off or just got the time allowed. Were Jake and Dana afraid of djt? Did Team trump threaten CNN? Something sounds fishy.
In the beginning of the debate, I also thought they were giving rump more time.... so I started a timer just after a question was asked.... every time the moderators cut off a speaker, it was spot on either the 2-minute mark, or the 1-minute mark. So, they were being timed and shut down equally. But also, yes, Joe has a bad cold and his voice showed it. And also, rump lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and was of course could not stand being there and being controlled so effectively. And ALSO, yes, the moderators must have been instructed to NOT fact check any damn thing that came out of their mouths. It was hard to watch -- because of the millions of lies and awful crap that rump spouted. I felt empathy for Joe because I'm coming off of a round of Bronchitis - horrible stuff! Anyway - yes, even though Joe's performance was off, everyone with two brain cells knows what's at stake -- democracy, or dictatorship.
You're wrong. I want my president to NOT be a felon. I want my president to NOT be an adjudicated rapist, and I want my president to NOT be a third rate reality TV actor who doesn't know right from wrong. If you listened to the end, as Joe was getting stronger the liar was getting worse.
We all want you said Carol-Ann. But we need a new Dem candidate ASAP. Like it or not, it's all about optics these days, and Joe failed miserably. And I'm a Biden voter.
You are so wrong. That's exactly what the MAGAts want. Throwing red meat to the jackals. He didn't fail. Did you listen? He was on the stage with Bozo the clown and the clown knows how to play to the camera. With a split screen, which works to the clowns advantage, the eye and camera drifts to the mugging, grimacing liar who is doing everything he can distract from the debate.
You don't switch horses in midstream, that's how we ended up with Nixon winning. So I guess if you'd like a felon as president - Republicans seem to be enamored of felons - keep pounding that drum instead of realizing that we are far enough out so that much can be done. Pres Obama also belly flopped his first debate with Romney.
Not really. All post commentary was about superficial things like his voice, energy, of course age, etc. They should have been focused on the content instead! I am disgusted that they found the wrapping paper more important than what's inside the package! That alone was not fair to Biden. We still need him!
I couldn’t focus on his points because his voice was so feeble it was hard to understand him and he meandered. We need someone other than Trump, of course. But Biden doesn’t have it any longer.
I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
We're not stupid. I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
Imagine this please: You’ve magically been blessed with a $50,000,000 thoroughbred racehorse. He’s won every race and surpassed all your expectations. So you’ve got this huge race coming up in a couple weeks but you’ve got to fly your prized possession cross country to the track. To get him ready, you work him hard; blow him all the way out every day. He looks ready come race day. They load him in the starting gate AND THEY’RE OFF! Your horse stumbles just a bit out of the gate but still manages, against all odds, to lose in a photo finish. Will you have your trainer take him back to the stall where you can talk with him about what went wrong or are you going to have your horse put down because he lost this one race?
Thing is, this is no horse race in spite of what the blathering heads would have you believe. It is a presidential election with far too much riding on the outcome to do away with your very successful candidate. The one time the party did that, Democrats lost. We get behind a proven winner, get him reelected and begin looking for our next candidate for 2028. But we can only do that if we win this year. No changing horses in mid stream.
Suppose it was not a photo finish. Suppose the race-crowd was actually left unsure if the horse might even still be inside the starting gate. Suppose there is another horse race in two months time, the winner of which will decide the destiny of the universe.
Its NOT all about optics unless you reinforce the narrative. Optics is a shallow term signaling “Survivor and World Wide Wrestling” are my favorite ventures into truth
I did not watch the debates because I live in a different time zone and did not need to watch them because I am not undecided. I cannot believe that a poor debate performance would have someone saying that Biden, who has turned our economy into the strongest in the world, who has improved the lives of the middle and lower income people, who is a champion of women's issues, and rights, and who is handling extremely complex global situations without getting the US into a war, and helping the cause of democracy which is under attack worldwide would so disillusion people. Biden could be mediocre and I would have no doubt about him against fascist Trump. Half of my family lived under Communist oppression in East Germany, and I know to some small degree what that is like. If you are wavering in your support of democracy and freedom I recommend you read Prof. Ruth Ben Ghiat's book, Strongmen. It was written during Trump's presidency, so right there she had sized up the man he has become. He was disorganized in implementing a full on fascist government in his first term because he did not expect to win. Now, all the ducks are in order for him to take over full on. If you are not sure what that will look like, read Project 2025. Biden is and continues to be the best president I have ever lived under and my 90-year-old mother says the same thing. She has lived under presidents in both the US and Germany.
I would like to hear Joyce comment on what exactly is the connection between Trump and Project 2025. Trump doesn't care about policies or plans, he cares only for himself, his image, and what is "good" for him in the moment. I know that the extreme right wants Project 2025 but how much does Trump actually want it?
I think trump is a puppet. Get him elected and he'll agree to Project 2025. Trump is easily manipulated. All one has to do is make him think its his idea. He is all about optics. He really does not cares about our country at all. He just wants the power to do whatever he wants, which will not be good for any of us, MAGA included. I will admit I'm a bit scared of a trump regime. It will be the end of our wonderful freedom and people will truly suffer, especially our young. Vote Blue!!!
I'm watching all this from Wales. I totally agree with BC above. I don't think Trump actually wants to be President - which is an incredibly hard job. Like Boris Johnson here, he wants to be 'world king' so he can strut about and leave the work to others. And there's the scary bit - if re-elected, he will leave the work to the writers/supporters of Project 2025. And he'll just strut about playing king. Oh. And coincidentally, his 'staff' will also destroy Ukraine and - potentially - both Israel and Gaza by triggering all out war in the Middle East. Horror for everyone, including Americans.
PS despite my comment, I am optimistic. I honestly believe most Americans have more sense than the press credit them with ❤️
Project 2025 is Heritage Foundation. Heritage Foundation dictated Trump's Supreme Court nominations. Trump is Howdy Doody with a Hitler complex. Answer your question?
I feel she correctly sized up what advantage Trump had from the situation. If you read her article you can let me know what you think. Prof. Vance has been saying we should be reading Project 2025. In fact, she is the one who suggested a book club on it as being a blueprint for what Trump wants to do.
Why wasn’t Project 2025 brought up last night? I really wanted a moderator to ask Trump what he thinks of Project 2025 and how much of it he agrees to “honor and obey” IF he is the next conservative to occupy the White House for 4 years. (I can’t use the words POTUS and Trump in the same sentence anymore)
I’ve thought about this too. Think Trump doesn’t care about 2025. He will be their puppet. That’s what should terrify us. He will be there to kiss their agenda, even though he’ll have no idea what it really is while he’s basking in the glory of his power. Trump will lose but project 2025 unfortunately will live on. We will never be able to trust republicans, ever again.
So quick to diagnose. I did not see it, I see the effects of the work Biden has done. That does not go away in one evening for me as it seems to for you. Bots are busy making people dissatisfied with what they saw. So, the fact that Trump is a fascist is not getting any commentary. Too too bad!
What? You’re a Dr now? Diagnosing someone you’ve had no contact with whatsoever? Stop it. He could have Dengue fever and our economy is the best it’s been in years, my son had to choose from many jobs offered to him so far this year and the President doesn’t set prices. If you can’t see the difference between a lying convicted felon and an experienced politician who has turned back to building the middle class, negotiating with other countries to fight fascism and bring women to 1st class citizenship, then just keep your shortsightedness to yourself.
Not a doctor? Then please provide a link to these "friendly doctors" comments. Enough said. Now that fact checking is catching up with Trump, he's nothing other than he always is with 34 felonious convictions, huge financial judgements and not capable of answering direct questions. Lies from a convicted felon whether he's a Presidential candidate or not, is still a convicted lying felon. Got it?
Not a Dr. However I've read comments from Biden friendly doctors who think he's showing symptoms. If friendly doctors are saying this how about the non-friendly? This observation has nothing to with what I personally can see or not see. This is all about the voters, the electorate that Biden needs to keep and attract. Going down swinging, is still going down. Can you understand that?
I’m presently in England and could not watch. The comments I’m reading are all he was terrible, disappointing, we’re sunk, he needs to drop out, he’s oooold. I don’t give two hoots. I’m voting for Biden. Period.
He can make that decision, but he is already on the ballot. I always wonder who the "brilliant statesman" is that will rise to the top and step in to save the day. Who do you think that other person is that should replace Joe? Personally, I love Joe and am hoping he will hang in there...we need him just as badly as the last election.
MSNBC went over the results of debates between incumbents and challengers. Of the 4 they mentioned, all bombed the debate; 2 won the election. It isn't a great predictor. BUT Pres. Biden has to work on his presentation skills, and quickly. I saw a clip of him after the debate, at a party. He was energetic, funny and his voice was fine. I have NO IDEA what happened on that debate stage.
I don't care as long as making decisions about the welfare of our country he continues to be who he has been. Why would he not? I also trust his wife to keep things going or move Harris into place if need be. She is the other part of the ticket. Of course we don't have any vice presidential debates lined up because Trump does not have a running mate.
This is what happened to Biden from Heather Cox Richardson: "Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them."
"It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective."
Please don't be negative. I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
I don’t think that CNN post-debate panel listened to the latter part of the debate - too busy with seating arrangements and sound checks. They focused on the initial fumbling.
Thing is... I can't think of anyone better for the job at this point in time. Biden had an off night. He's human... timing was not what I had hoped for. For some reason we expect Biden to be perfect, no down moments or gaffs. I don't agree with everything, but I don't have all the information either. I have to trust Biden. Over all Biden is an experienced politician and diplomat. He has a good heart and mind. He has wonderful people working for him AND he listens to them. Who would you have run in his place?
You are so wrong. The insane lying Trump is THE most frightening monster since Frankenstein. The Moderators certainly favored him letting him not answer the questions. The Trump onlyPresident was obviously not well he should have announced his voice problem. He has been on the go in Europe and the US - Trump sounded like he swallowed a teleprompter or was hypnotized to only
Repeat his fantastically repulsive lies - must say I got up and punched his smug and fatuous face on my new TV out of sheer frustration! Not to have competent fact checking in real-time was absurd!!! No doubt from the Trump group! There is NO WAY this Maniac can be elected.
President Biden was painfully off last night. I know there are reasons for that, and I can make allowances, but I am a bleeding-heart liberal. Thank goodness the election is still a way off. I don't think he can be replaced successfully.
You don't know anything about anyone's health! You know only their appearance which has zip to do with one's ability to do the job we have seen Biden do. We must focus on that! I wonder if the public picked apart the candidate in a wheelchair?
I know enough to not confuse good health with competence. And know enough not to confuse my hoped for outcome with reality. As for the wheelchair. There may be one in Biden's future.....we don't know yet. As for FDR's ...why do you think he kept it hidden and went to such great lengths to appear hearty and healthy?
Because of ignorance about the unimportance of the wheelchair in doing the great job he could and the discrimination he would face due to that ignorance. Why should he subject himself to such cruel judgement?
"And know enough not to confuse my hoped for outcome with reality."
Exactly, Terry. We can hope all we want that people will use facts, reason, logic and evidence when making choices. But we've seen over the course of at least the last decade, that that is not the case. Emotions and appearances are more powerful to many people.
I am disheartened by what happened in last night's debate. Our job has now gotten order of magnitudes harder. But a lot can -- and will -- happen between now and November.
And he fought off the large Nazi group in that election. Dumb luck they picked outvHarrybTruman who was terrific. They thought he was just not much and not start anytrouble
Go to You Tube and do a search. He’s there Tuesday thru Friday. He’s available via podcast too but there aren’t any ads on YT which is a big plus. Here’s the link to his post debate show tonight.
I appreciate their efforts at fact checking, but the horse is out of the barn. All the talking heads in the world will not mitigate the damage done. I’m gutted by Biden’s performance.
Since I posted this the other day(or night), when I tried to find Kieth on YT, I couldn’t but his podcast was up and active and still available wherever you get your podcasts.
They don't have lozenges in the white house? And his advance press team never thought to alert the media that Biden was going to be reduced to hoarse whispering?? Anyone can have a bad day, but his press team surely is doing a terrible job managing it. If Biden doesn't go then at least he should fire his staff.
Posted this at the WaPo 11hrs ago, and, no, I certainly didn't watch the wretched crapshow this evening:
"Two cablenews lightweights are no match for tRump, he knows it, CNN brass know it, and prolly Tapper/Bash know it...so why all the speculating on how this plays out? tRump will go all WWE- "rasslin'" tough-guy schtick, and Biden plays the straight-man rôle, and there you have it: 90 min. of game-show theatricals, followed by hours of live inane "analyses", and thousands of column-inches explaining "what it all means".
I'm sorry, Lance, that's just a bit too cynical for me. And I have experience with cynical, having lived through 8 years of Bush-Cheney, which Molly Ivins characterized as so cynical a regime that you really could hardly keep up.
What in Lance's post was too cynical? The tv wrestling thing? Bush took the TX governorship from Richards by lieing and repeatedly beating the same dead horse. What is too cynical about comparing that to tv wrestlers? What would Molly Ivens say about it?
Biden failed his straight-man role. That's the problem. He was meandering, dithering and confused. Given that everyone's expectation was exactly as you write, then why wasn't Biden ready for it?? I had posted a few days ago that it was ominous that Biden chose a white house lawyer to be Trump's standin. Biden was prepping for the wrong debate. How could Biden and his team have not known exactly how Trump would be onstage?
Houston2024 I can’t find the thread to respond to your lozenge reply but Demosthenes is the only character of record who successfully overcame his stutter by practicing speaking with a mouthful of pebbles. I can’t imaging how much more difficult it would have been for the President to speak with a melting lozenge in his mouth. Can you?
The debate was cringeworthy. It caught Biden on a bad night, and was certainly not indicative of his accomplishments and capabilities. Trump was allowed to turn it into a typical rally: ranting, lies, insults, anger, threats, more lies, bigger lies, etc. He got away with everything while two so-called moderators just asked questions a high-schooler could have just as well, and sat there as spectators.
One "debate" should not define Biden, but I knew it would, and it did. It's a shame.
And nobody cares because Biden was not aggressive enough to push back hard enough! Like it or not, it's all about optics, and Biden looked like the 1,000 year old man. I say that as a Biden voter.
"Trump was allowed to simply spout a stream of nonsense without any consequences."
Biden called him a liar several times, but he really needed to challenge and rebut the most egregious lies. I don't think it's up to moderators to fact-check what candidates say - it's left to their opponent to do that, rightly in my view.
Unfortunately, President Biden‘s performance was terrible. The fact of the cold and the resulting hoarseness should have been shared with the public before the debate so people would know what was going on.
Debate rule number one is to look directly into the camera – at the people watching. Failed. Rule number two is keep a straight face no matter what your opponent says. You score points with what you say not with the faces you make
Rule number three is do not get drawn into conversation about what your opponent says. And for God sake, don’t get it drawn into conversation about Golfing abilities. That’s time that could’ve been spent challenging Trump’s lies and challenging the fact that trump tried to turn every question into opportunity to lie about immigration.
I’ve seen a few references that some top Democrats are thinking about a replacement candidate. I don’t know the ins and outs of that strategy, but it’s time to have serious discussions about it.
Re the golf convo, why didn't Joe say "Lets see your fat ass get on a bicycle"! Joe was not prepared with zingers that matter in a televised debate. What happened at Camp David all week? Epic fail.
When the Orange Abomination bragged about winning two championships, Biden should have noted "Of course you did, they were at your clubs" and/or "Not surprised. You did nothing else for during your time in office except play golf."
Biden is not a master of the zinger. Is he supposed to be a superior practitioner of the martial arts? Or would it be good enough for him to have a good grasp of the world today and our role in it?
I am not going to opine on Biden's "performance." But it is far too late to be talking about replacements for President Biden, unless you are talking about 4 years from now.
I agree, I wish Biden had started right off the bat by saying, “hey, I’m sorry my voice is raspy, I’ve got a cold.” That bit of honesty would have been both a good human touch as well.
You ever see the movie The Great Debaters? The side that was not talking was not standing, they were at a table making notes. That's what a debate should look like. And there should be a team of at least two.
Okay, so do you rebut the lies, or do you pretend you're above the opponent's unacceptable tactics and ignore the blather? Which works? I truly don't know. I suspect a large contingent of Democrats will criticize Biden no matter which direction he tacks.
Well, that may be the case…Biden should have spoken up, but the reality was the moderators said they were going to be fact checking and they should’ve and they didn’t.
No: Biden, Trump and CNN all agreed in advance that the moderators would not be fact checking. It should have been a great opportunity for Biden to slam Trump on Trump's lies. Instead he starts dithering about beating Trump at golf.....
It was in my opinion am opportunity to say no to this game show format that was not a real debate at all. Robert La Follette was a champion debater back in the days when Americans paid attention to radio broadcast of college debates. At some point the issue needs to be presented, and the arguments made need to be evaluated by judges. The issue in this case was a question, then another question, you get the idea. To not fact check the arguments is to openly admit this format is not a debate format.
It’s pretty hard for anyone to debate when one debater is answering a policy question with a policy answer and the other one is spewing nonsense that has nothing to do with the question asked. If I were the pundits right now I would seriously be considering whether Trump has any policies which will move democracy forward in this country. And if not, why not? Trump’s incompetence and incoherence on that debate stage leads me to think he was incapable of even understanding the questions he was asked.
Not hard. You prepare for it. You forcefully slam down the lies. You trick your opponent into just repeating some nonsense. And slam them for it again. Biden didn't do any of that. Worse, Biden meandered into wierd stories like an immigrant murdering some woman when he was supposed to be answering a question on abortion.
There’s a bit of fact checking dribbling out, like on NYTimes, but against the regular wall of stacked lies the media is still helpless. Hard to believe AI can’t be used to flag each incident in real time.
Two sock puppets from the Cretin News Nertwork, and all the over-educated, under-intelligent, otherwise-unemployable trust fund babies of the Washington Press Corps are safe, they're too worthless to spend money giving them their "just desserts." Add in the "Democrfatic Consultants" (I was in "professional" Democratic politics for 10 years - "Democratic Consutant" is a synonym for "braindead legend in his own mind."It's why I left)
It appears that the decision was made that it was not the role of the moderators to fact check? Candidates were to do it? Pathetic. I too could be a moderator if all I had to do was read questions from a piece of paper. If I were Tapper and Bash, I would not have agreed to those rules. Keeping my mouth shut would have been impossible and dishonest messaging to the public.
They went into it saying it's difficult to fact check and have a discussion. Their job was to have a discussion. That's the wrong approach. You have to have two people discussing in good faith for that to make sense. Old playbook. There's something much more fundamental at stake here. Who do you believe? Trump's playbook is muddying the waters. Fox News says to believe Trump. Everyone else says believe Biden. Fox is the most watched. Biden needs to stand on stage and just talk about what a liar Trump is. Take every statement. Say it's a lie. Explain how you know it's a lie. (A jury said so.) Say what's true. Explain the consequences of the lie. And explain why that is exploitative of the people he wants to vote for him. That's it. From now until election day. "Trump is a liar. Here's how and why you know." I realize Americans want to believe Trump's lies. They don't like be lied to, though. Which is why you have to keep chipping away at it!
yes, but in the post-debate analysis, there should have been one comment about "Trump made things up for every answer, insisted things he said weren't said, and refused to answer the difficult questions. Instead, all they did was describe Biden's troubles, which we should all recognize, there were many.
Mr. Pfeiffer, both Trump and Biden agreed there would be no fact checking from the moderators during the debate. So; no fact checking. Some have complained that Trump was allowed to weasel out of answering about 5 questions. But this is not entirely true. Both Bash and Tapper tried to get him to answer by repeating their questions. He simply refused. Which is, of course a kind of answer in itself. There was nothing they could have done to force him to answer. Break his arm? Yell at him? Kick his shins?
Something more important to me is the remarkable circumstances surrounding their questioning about unions. But, you might say: "The moderators did not ask about unions."
That is the remarkable part. They asked nothing about unions.
12% of American voters are Black. 12% of American wage earners are in unions.
Bash and Tapper thought it was appropriate to ask about Black voters. But not about unionized wage earners. Why do you suppose that is? Unions have been experiencing a resurgence of late. President Biden is the first President in our history to walk a picket line. In Detroit with the UAW.
Please believe me when I say I can bring up more examples of topics of import to millions of Americans which Bash and Tapper willingly left out. You can no doubt bring up topics yourself.
Why did Bash and Tapper leave out unions?
They are both examples of white, upper-middle-class, privileged Americans who feel entitled to their comfortable, and high-paying careers. They are like others of their kind who are completely out of contact with the ordinary working American whose paycheck barely keeps a roof over their head. They are biased, either consciously or not. It does not matter how. The result is bias against wage earners and unions.
This bias is common in American public discourse. To his credit, old Joe Biden is in contact with common American citizens. Like millions of us he swims at the beach; he rides his bicycle and falls off. He loves his vintage Corvette, what American man wouldn't? Let us be honest: Joe Biden is one of us. He will win the election in 2024 and drag along many other Democrats on the ballot with him. Why do I believe this? Because he is one of us and we like him? Not at all. We will re-elect him because of all the policies he has created which have benefitted us all.
Since 1860 up until the present the party holding the White House has always won re-election if they had given the public policies in the preceding four years which benefitted and/or pleased the majority of voters.
Why is it FDR was re-elected four times even though he was a member of the upper class, the wealthy elite, not an ordinary citizen? The answer: he gave us a good life. His programs benefitted everyone, not just those who were like him. Granted FDR is an extraordinary example in the truest sense of the word extraordinary. We have not seen his like since. The closest we came to this kind of extraordinary type was the wealthy, upper class extraordinary John F. Kennedy. Which is exactly why the elite assassinated him. They were terribly afraid of another FDR, this one a young, brilliant, handsome, charming, injured war hero who was clearly unbeatable at the poles. Old Joe Biden is not all those things. But he is smart, kind wise, and experienced enough to have pulled us through the greatest plague since the influenza of 1919 which killed way more people than WWI. He has given us so many good programs that they are too numerous to list here. If he and the Dems. take over in 2024 they can give us all the things that 70% of Americans want, eg. single-payer government health care, universal, quality public education, less expensive housing, public transportation, clean air and water. If they do, they will hold on to the white House for a generation or more. They will force the Republicans to move to the left or they will never have power again.
I didn't ask the moderators to fact check. I was disappointed that the analysis after the debate was all on style, not substance. To ignore the screed of lies was a miss on the part of journalism. I don't think I disagree with your statement, but it has little to do with my comment.
Trump’s fire hose of lies went unchecked, even, in most cases, by Biden. Biden sounded old and tired, though everything he said was true and intelligent. I personally think he wouldn’t even be running if he thought Kamala or Pete Buttigieg could win. I’m definitely worried that our democracy is going down, but encouraged by the conversation with young voters you shared.
Abby, you are correct. Trump’s lies were so pervasive and that should be what we are focused on. Joyce called out one bald faced lie- lowering insulin but another glaring one was that he supported HBCUs- something Biden has actually done. Trump wasn’t just a liar. He was a thief. He was stealing Biden’s policies and work and making it his own. We all have bad days. For all of us, luckily we don’t have to experience those days on television.
If any of us are rethinking Biden’s reelection, don’t. We need to keep our republic.
Bigger lies were that he offered 10,000 National Guard troops during insurrection AND that Nancy Pelosi “recently admitted” that she was responsible for rejecting his offer on Jan6. HUGE WHOPPERS! Shame on Jake and Bash for not stopping the debate and correcting him; 9O% of viewers didn’t know these were outrageous lies when TFG did nothing and watched the insurrection proceed against the police!
That's the problem. The people who need to know he is lying don't know that everything he said tonight was a lie. To them it looks like a confident, energetic man vs. a weak old man. Biden, if he did nothing else, should have called him out on his blatant lies. Even when he did, it didn't stand out. It was all garbled up with facts and figures he had memorized and was trying to recite, which sounded like a recording.
I think you hit the problem, and one of the many MSNBC after-analyzers said it, too. He was too stuffed with facts and figures. His handlers should have let him run, let him be him. He was trying to be a walking encyclopedia,
There were so many opportunities for Biden to say “The only reason you are running is to stay out of jail” and was disappointed he didn’t seize that moment.
Concentrate only on what is inside the package instead of the wrapping paper which is all that was mentioned every where. He's entitled to be tired. Wouldn't anyone traveling as much ych as he had? We need him.
he is entitled, but the whole world saw it. It was NOT a good time to be tired. The Camp David practice seems to have stuffed him full of knowedge but not fire and brimstone. He needed the fire and brimstone. He needed his State of the Union persona.
I’m thinking of the days when I’m carrying a cold around. I feel sluggish and foggy headed and not much like eating, and longing for the day it’s over. Joe had some relax time at the camp so they filled his mind with facts.
We will see the fire and brimstone in the Sept debate. He knew who he was debating, but he shouldn't have to lower himself to that level? How would that score points?
We're not rethinking our votes, not even close, but Joe's re-election chances took a big, big hit tonight. And we need him to win to keep our democratic republic democratic.
Maybe they could win, but Harris and Buttigieg are extremely popular among young voters—really Rick stars. It’s just the old voters that have such a huge problem voting for a woman or a gay person.
Sorry--I didn't mean to generalize about old people. I, too, (an old person), would happily vote for Harris or Buttigieg! But I guess I meant undecided voters are often old-timey conservative and less likely to step out of the straight white male pattern of voting. But I hope I am wrong!
As an old person, my version of "old-timey conservative" is that I want intelligence, character, honesty, knowledge and experience. I have no problem stepping out of the straight white male pattern of voting.
We have to win this election, and while I have warmed up to Harris and like Buttigieg, I don’t think either one would be able to win a national election.
I watched Gavin on MSNBC from Atlanta last night after the “debate”, he was impressively on point, he had the president’s back 100%. I have liked what I have heard every time I have heard him speak.
Unfortunately that is probably about their characteristics (female, gay) that have nothing to do with their ability to do the job. I'm not sure why we as a country seem to be so focused on the superficial as opposed to what really counts.
As an old person, I have no problem voting for a woman (I voted for Clinton, it was a no-brainer) or a gay person. The problem I see is that people look at superficial things such as gender and sexual orientation, and not at what really matters: the wherewithal to do the job. I think both Harris and Buttigieg are very competent and I would have no problem voting for either of them.
Biden clearly had laryngitis and was low energy for most of the event, and I’ve read elsewhere he has a cold, but I will remember forever that he said Trump had the morals of an alley cat.
I've just read that Biden had a cold, as well. Plus, prior to the debate, he'd been spending a lot of time prepping for the debate. I think I'd be hoarse, too.
That said, the man is 81 years old & has laryngitis. OK. But, Biden has proven that he's still a VERY capable statesman, surrounds himself with VERY smart ppl, and has earned the respect & trust from other world leaders. Trump? Not at all. Trump's a lying, convicted felon times 34 & wouldn't acknowledge the truth (on anything) if it jumped out of his Diet Coke bottle and said hello. World leaders who are NOT dictators laugh at him & don't want him to be elected.
My vote is STILL for Joe Biden. And, oooh, "the morals of an alley cat"... I'll bet Trump is still steaming about that. 😅
Totally agree Wineaux and you make a very important point—Biden surrounds himself with smart,capable people while tfffg is surrounded by crooks,liars and suckups.
This was not a debate. We know what debates look like. Two minutes to answer a question is not a debate. Make up a team and debate one topic. Think about the nonsensical speeches Donnie has been giving. Like tonight, one lie after another. Biden showed up with a cold. It’s not the end of the world. I want to hear loads of Dems talking about the lies today. I want to hear Pelosi take him down. I want to hear actual facts about immigration and the wall. And I want some multibillionaire to buy some drug screening machines NOW. tffg ended the bilateral agreement on immigration. Now he’s planning to do what Reagan did— release the hostages before Inauguration Day. Still knee deep in 💩💩💩 with the same fascists.
And the failure of moderators to enforce their own rules. They were afraid it would look political to shut cf45 up. That self-satisfied smirk on his face is something we should be remembering. Unfit for office!!
I don’t understand why the moderators allowed (mostly) Trump to answer a question by going back to the last question and not answering the current one. Why not just stop the person and say, “Please answer the current question “. I felt like Trump strategically dug in many times this way. It’s dirty pool. He should have been cut off and forced to answer the question asked.
Thank you for saying this. CNN and tye moderators did a shit job of holding trump accountable. And tge worst of all...they gave Trump the last word??? What? Absolute shit through snd through
they did not give Trump the last word. Biden won a coin toss. He could choose EITHER where he stood on the podium (right or left) or when he did his closing statement- first or last. WHY he chose podium and right, instead of closing statement, and last, is beyond me.
Sorry, Judy, there were several occasions when both Jake Tapper and Dana Bash tried getting Degenerate Don to answer the question asked, repeatedly, particularly when asked to commit to accepting the results of the election, including after all any litigation was over.
That set of evasions should be central point of many frequent commercials.
They should have cut his mic when he wasn't answering the questions posed. And more than once they let Trump go over his time limit. CNN didn't follow the rules they set up.
Yes. It’s so obvious they were either unprepared or just plain not trying very hard. And that weird set. What was the point of that?? Waste of big bucks. Biden got in a great side eye though. Hope to see it in a commercial.
That was my feeling too. I felt like he should’ve been brought back to answering their question and not be be allowed rebuttal when it wasn’t his choice at that time.
And then they would go back and give him more time to actually answer it, which he would take for more lies and grandstanding! Almost as if we hadn't all seen 8 years of this con man - what he did was predictable.
We watched in horror. The lies, the attitude, the self aggrandizing was hideous, but the stumbling, soft voice and rambling thoughts were so disappointing. We are fully committed to our president. We need to focus on what’s at stake.
I think Biden tried to say too much and too fast, and his stutter took over. That plus the cold made for a bad presentation. But what would YOU do if someone spouted non-stop, easily refutable lies at you. I think he should simple have said "What he said was a full lie, and you can all fact check that at your leisure. Meanwhile, to answer the actual question....."
I don't understand how this happened. His preppers had to know exactly what Trump would say because he only repeats the same few things over and over. Every single person yelling at their TV tonight new exactly how to answer Trump's lies why didn't they?
I think they tried to stuff him full of facts, and he had to remember them to answer. But really, he DIDN'T have to have all those facts stuffed in his head. He needed his energy. Look what he did at both State of the Union addresses. Where was THAT Biden?
I actually fault his coaching team. He had all kinds of detailed facts memorized but there were no clear central messages with which watchers could identify. He could have simply rotated among the central points and ignored the orange guy — Or made simpler more direct attacks about him needing to stay out of jail, “there he goes again” a la Reagan.
Absolutely. I totally agree with your observations. I think we all would have preferred your suggested response! We were certainly hoping for that. Now, let’s start fact checking!
Amen sister, we definitely have to focus on what we’re going to be facing; the reality of freedom of reproductive choice and so many other things that are at stake if we don’t elect Biden, regardless of his soft voice and illness tonight.
As I watched, I was thinking the same thing! I have no idea who was coaching Biden. He may have been getting a cold and his voice was quiet, but the content of his answers were weak. Did Biden even mention INFRASTRUCTURE?
I admit to being discouraged. I'm not much of a debater, but even I (also 81) could have answered some of those questions better/more coherently and forcefully than Biden did. He seemed to be rattled, needlessly, by a bully. His timing was off. He seemed rushed to cram every point into the allotted time, instead of presenting just the top points, repeatedly and strongly. All that said, I will work to find ways to compensate, as one should as part of a team, which we all are if we understand the stakes. We need to read what gets said about the debate in the press and hit hard on the guts of project 2025.
Yes, I was struck by the fact that he rushed and I couldn’t understand what he was saying; if he would have just slowed down and focused on certain points he would’ve been much better off. Plus, he was obviously ill tonight.
Yes. Biden was very disappointing and did not seem able to meet the moment. I am very sad about this, but I fear he does not have the strength to win the election. Could a healthier younger more vibrant person replace him at this point, due to health concerns? Not Harris, who could not mount that sort of campaign.
Correct. We need to have healthy majorities in both houses of Congress, and where possible in other elected offices such as attorney general and judge. This will provide necessary checks and balances no matter who is president. Get to work, folks.
Remember when the polls a few months back reported that a "generic 43 year old white male" wins the race hands down over Biden or Trump with 70% of the vote?
Very nearly everything Trump said tonight was either a bald-faced lie or gross misrepresentation. Admittedly, Biden was not on his A game. But - what really frosted my liver was the way Trump kept trashing the country: “laughingstock of the world,” “no one respects this country any more,” “we’re living in hell and it’s your (Biden’s) fault,” “we’re the worst country in the world,” etc. What???? At least Biden rallied in defense of our great country and the people who make it great. It was all I could do not to put my fist through the computer screen! Someone who denigrates the country and calls it hell - that’s who people want to be in charge? I despair. (Sorry for the rant - I get a little exercised at times)
Yes! I was so happy to hear that, too. I’ve never thought of myself as a “rah-rah” person, but boy, Trump managed to push my button on that particular issue tonight.
I'm not sure what the importance of the debate was, but two incoherent candidates for President. Wow. I understand all the things Joe was trying to say and all the things Trump was lying about, so pretty much a wash for me.
Me too, can't stand him. But Joe did not do well tonight at all. Quite concerning. Maybe you'll catch some clips tomorrow. Don't blame you for skipping it tonight!
I like your positive hope. I, however, have very little hope left for us, because so many voters are star struck by a con artist turned television celebrity.
I didn’t see Trump as smooth at all. When asked a specific question, he answered with his own agenda totally unrelated to the question. Half the time Trump didn’t even know the answer especially if it related to “What would you do?” Trump had no idea what he would do. He’s totally historically, politically and economically IGNORANT! Golf swings in a Presidential Debate? Give me a break! “I didn’t have sex with a porn star.” Who does he think he’s talking to? Whoops! I know; all those MAGAs who believe anything that comes out of his lying mouth. It is very disturbing that over half of the adult population in the US are hoodwinked because they have no idea how our system of government works or how our economic system works. Ask any MAGA How a bill becomes law”: they won’t know the answer! Trump probably doesn’t either.
I felt badly about Biden's poor presentation. I thought at the beginning he looked like he had had a mini stroke. But he is the one with truth, justice, and care for the country, and the experience to navigate all the roadblocks the GOP throw up. I made an extra donation to Biden's campaign as a show of continued support.
Who knew that before the debate? I didn't. I thought omg this is not the same man who gave the State of the Union address. A lot of people who are concerned about his age will have their worst suspicions confirmed and may not even see reports that he was under the weather, or may not care.
I’d vote for Biden if he were on a ventilator over Trump. But this was pretty bad. He looked a sounded bad. Trump lied his ass off—he’s a bullshitter through and through (look up the book on it). We had a bad night.
The real question is: One of these two men will likely be the next President of The United States of America, based on what we know and what we saw tonight, who should be our next president? I am a lifelong unaffiliated voter. I’ve voted Republican and Democratic of the years. I am a 74 year old white guy (very well informed voter) from North Carolina and I will proudly be voting for President Biden
It doesn’t matter. Yes, Biden was not himself. He seemed more frail than I’ve seen him. He got confused early in the debate although he did get stronger by the end. But again…it does not matter. I will vote blue no matter because the idea of Trump winning is just too scary. The only worry is people who don’t follow politics and what they will think and do. That may be a big problem. We will see.
Not sure if he got confused as much as off center. I believe it is difficult to even try to debate a man who isnt going by the rules, and to be the one who is honest and really trying to real. As one of the many commentators has said , Biden’s handlers didnt let him be Joe Biden, they bogged him down with numbers
His handlers did him a big disservice. I'm not a political handler but even I know that all he had to do was scream "bullshit" and "lies' all night long. I'm crushed and afraid.
I was shocked at Biden's whole self-presentation: hunched, head bowed as Trump railed his lies, hoarse and mumbly, not sharp. I read that it got better after I left the room, but I'm so desperately afraid Biden lost the election tonight. Which I hate hate hate to say.
Money won't change any first impressions. I will continue to vote and support Biden once again. But it looks like many more voters this time have abandoned reason.
I am still in shock from Bidens performance. Trumps lies cascaded in front of him like Niagara Falls nonstop. Trump was ripe for the picking. No mention of the gallows for Pence.......women bleeding in washrooms due to miscarrages........never standing up to protect Nancy Pelosi.........
Jamie Raskin or Jasmine Crockett would have sent 34-0 running for the hills, leaving behind a fully loaded stinking Depends on stage...........still MUST vote Blue top down to save the free world from the Orange MAGA menace.
It was bad. Even after a week of coaching at Camp David, Biden did not deliver the necessary pushback. And yes, he appeared frail. Is there time to find a new candidate? We could be in trouble.
Me too, but I really hope that the public comes to their senses and realizes what’s at stake and the man was just sick. He shouldn’t done this. He had a cold.
Eve, we are not weighing apples to apples here. Trump lied for 90 minutes and Biden had to answer questions which he tried to. If his greatest supporters, us, talk about replacing him, why would anyone vote for him. For almost four years we have held this man to an impossibly high standard. He met the moment almost every time except for tonight. Double down on him. Hope people who don’t watch tv and read papers, didn’t . Hope that a June debate will fade after the July 11 sentencing. If Biden is replaced, Trump will sweep Congress and the presidency. Replacing Biden is not an option. Let’s step up and support Biden tangibly now!
I watched the majority of the debate. Trump bragged and lied, and Joe looked unwell and struggled with his words. It was incredibly difficult to watch.
It was extremely difficult to watch. Biden was not himself. Tffg just steamrolled with lies and self exaggerations! He didn’t answer questions. And most importantly he revealed he won’t accept the outcome of the election. He’s just trying to stay out of jail. Regardless of Biden’s lack of good “performance” the man is honest, smart, experienced and believes in democracy. Tffg can’t hold a light to Biden even when he is ill.
One weak performance does not the man make…old or not.
I remain deeply disappointed that in all of the analysis I heard very little commentary about fact-checking. Trump was allowed to simply spout a stream of nonsense without any consequences.
Tune in to Keith Olberman tomorrow. He kept notes of the felon’s lies and ran out of paper. He’ll be available on You Tube. He was irate tonight over CNN, Bash and Tapper. He also said that the President had come down with a cold ergo the hoarseness and the persistent need to cough.
Yeah the moderators really should have insisted that he answer the question
To be fair, she asked the question 3 times!
Then they should have shut off his microphone. He showed what a bully he is. And that SMIRK! it’s all about him. Ugly. Nasty. Liar. Biden won the night with the line — he has the morals of an alley cat. Tapper even said thank you to Donnie after he did not answer a question. I did not hear Biden use an important 4 letter word: WALL. 💩🎃🤡🤯🤮😩
Biden absolutely did not win the night. I say that as a Biden voter. It was disastrous.
I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
I don't think Trump really won either, at least not with Biden supporters and folks on the fence who follow current events and know Trump is the worlds greatest, yes... liar!
To be really fair, she's an overgrown yuppie fool.
What do you expect from the Cretin News Network?
CNN was hosting the debate because their ratings need a big jump. They're a lousy news outlet and a single debate won't change that.
I’m thinking Joe was under the weather having a cold or sore throat or both. He’s been “running” around and flying Europe for D-Day, G7, and then the fundraiser in CA. On top of that his son Hunter was convicted. He was spent and then a week or working for the debate. It’s a pace I couldn’t keep up. I felt sorry for him and then switching emotions to anger at CNN. The moderators were obviously favoring djt. I couldn’t believe it. No wonder I don’t like CNN, along with the New York Times and the WaPo. Horrible media. Were they threatened to do what they are doing? 🤷
I felt they gave djt more leeway instead of the prescribed time limits.
I wondered if they had been threatened. I wouldn't be a surprise.
All I could think of was how successfully the TFG minions worked the refs to such a degree that Tapper was totally neutered. Bash is inept, so there wasn’t much to hope for with her.
I think the emphasis on the importance of the debate that we heard from the media during the week leading up to the debate was absurd. Pundits were saying everything was on the line—the election, our democracy, the fate of the world.
Biden had obviously over-prepared and was probably understandably nervous. He was quoting statistics—and getting some of them confused. Trump was just making up his own numbers.
I wonder if perhaps having the so-called debate go about as badly as it possibly might have freed Joe to just be himself the next day in Raleigh (yay for my state)!
I think as long as Trump is just going to stand on stage and freebase MAGA disinformation, debating him is pointless, and there should be no more debates with him.
I do hope that the campaign will put a link on the website to something called “The Debate Fact-Checked” with “Trump’s Claim” on one side and “The Facts” on the other. Under “The Facts,” use Trump’s own words (video if possible), Republicans corroborating them, text from “Project 2025,” and so on. Then promote it heavily for people who really want to “do their own research.” Campaign tech workers should monitor it constantly to ensure it’s not hacked.
CNN has been leaning right for a good while now. That makes them a poor Choice to moderate. I feel like all media is doing their best to run him out of the race with their bigoted, cruel discipline 24/7! It is the death knell to every senior now & in the future! We want Biden!!!
I'm not sure. Biden was full of fire and vim the next day, so his abysmal performance seems unlikely to be related to D-Day, Hunter, etc. If he overworked himself trying to memorize useless facts in debate prep, well, then that's a black mark too. To an average politician, the rules seemed pretty fair: with his mic on, Trump lies and bluster, but then his mic is turned off. That should have allowed Biden to totally hammer him, indeed, Biden chose those rules for exactly that reason. But instead he flubbed every rebuttal. And when Trump was talking, Biden just stared off into the air making really wierd facial expressions like he was surprised Trump would lie. Maybe all that Botox has removed capability of him to look normal? If Biden's team knew he was not up to the job he shouldn't have pushed to do the debate, but he did, so that's another black mark to.
And then on Monday, SCOTUS will decide that , "sure", sometimes Presidents can be King's if they want to.
What a week :-(
Not the medias fault....
Have you read the NYT this morning? Nothing about continuous lies from the blob, only about Biden and all the ways he “lost”. Completely irresponsible.
NYT is so unfair. Maggie Haberman is so Trump
Remember, "but her emails?" So do I. Thanks Maggie, you're a real gem, just like your mentor, Nixon speech writer and NY Times columnist William Safire.
I read tons in the Times about Trump's lies.
Sorry, but NYT has in fact been talking about Trump's lies. However, it's hard to argue that Trump lying is news. Meanwhile Biden's performance was astonishingly abysmal. That is news. So seems reasonable that an editor would place the second story above the first. But both stories are there.
It's true that Trump's lying is not new information. But you can't ignore it because it's familiar. People forget, and this is part of his strategy: wear them down by repeatedly repeating the lie, the lie, the lie. It is incumbent on the media to repeatedly point out that Trump was lying then, is lying now, and will lie in the future. "Yet another lie from the former president ... " would be a good opener.
Have you read the editorial board’s rec that Biden drop out? Absurd. Sorry - it’s hard to defend them.
For sure, I wish the NYTimes, Post, etc, would spend more time thrashing Trump. The question at hand was whether the Times mentioned his lies at all (Answer: it did, but you could argue it should do more). And then a second question is how Biden could have screwed this up so badly. It's hard to argue that his screw-up is not newsworthy and it is definitely something that I want to read about as the details leak out.
Okay. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I say the media because that’s what CNN is and they did a shitty job last night. Why oh why did djt get so much time to spew his maga (get it?) lies while Biden got cut off or just got the time allowed. Were Jake and Dana afraid of djt? Did Team trump threaten CNN? Something sounds fishy.
In the beginning of the debate, I also thought they were giving rump more time.... so I started a timer just after a question was asked.... every time the moderators cut off a speaker, it was spot on either the 2-minute mark, or the 1-minute mark. So, they were being timed and shut down equally. But also, yes, Joe has a bad cold and his voice showed it. And also, rump lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and was of course could not stand being there and being controlled so effectively. And ALSO, yes, the moderators must have been instructed to NOT fact check any damn thing that came out of their mouths. It was hard to watch -- because of the millions of lies and awful crap that rump spouted. I felt empathy for Joe because I'm coming off of a round of Bronchitis - horrible stuff! Anyway - yes, even though Joe's performance was off, everyone with two brain cells knows what's at stake -- democracy, or dictatorship.
Agree
Thank you.
I for one do not want the future of our democracy reduced to a game show.
Yes I get it - maga as in huge and as MAGA. pun 😊
Biden should not run for another term. No way. We’ve lost.
You're wrong. I want my president to NOT be a felon. I want my president to NOT be an adjudicated rapist, and I want my president to NOT be a third rate reality TV actor who doesn't know right from wrong. If you listened to the end, as Joe was getting stronger the liar was getting worse.
We all want you said Carol-Ann. But we need a new Dem candidate ASAP. Like it or not, it's all about optics these days, and Joe failed miserably. And I'm a Biden voter.
You are so wrong. That's exactly what the MAGAts want. Throwing red meat to the jackals. He didn't fail. Did you listen? He was on the stage with Bozo the clown and the clown knows how to play to the camera. With a split screen, which works to the clowns advantage, the eye and camera drifts to the mugging, grimacing liar who is doing everything he can distract from the debate.
You don't switch horses in midstream, that's how we ended up with Nixon winning. So I guess if you'd like a felon as president - Republicans seem to be enamored of felons - keep pounding that drum instead of realizing that we are far enough out so that much can be done. Pres Obama also belly flopped his first debate with Romney.
Same basic response I gave on HCR's Letters from an American! Enough already.
Not really. All post commentary was about superficial things like his voice, energy, of course age, etc. They should have been focused on the content instead! I am disgusted that they found the wrapping paper more important than what's inside the package! That alone was not fair to Biden. We still need him!
I couldn’t focus on his points because his voice was so feeble it was hard to understand him and he meandered. We need someone other than Trump, of course. But Biden doesn’t have it any longer.
I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
O, ye of little faith! It's time to double down on the fact that Biden is the best possible candidate for president.
We're not stupid. I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
Faith doesn't win elections anymore than poker
Imagine this please: You’ve magically been blessed with a $50,000,000 thoroughbred racehorse. He’s won every race and surpassed all your expectations. So you’ve got this huge race coming up in a couple weeks but you’ve got to fly your prized possession cross country to the track. To get him ready, you work him hard; blow him all the way out every day. He looks ready come race day. They load him in the starting gate AND THEY’RE OFF! Your horse stumbles just a bit out of the gate but still manages, against all odds, to lose in a photo finish. Will you have your trainer take him back to the stall where you can talk with him about what went wrong or are you going to have your horse put down because he lost this one race?
Thing is, this is no horse race in spite of what the blathering heads would have you believe. It is a presidential election with far too much riding on the outcome to do away with your very successful candidate. The one time the party did that, Democrats lost. We get behind a proven winner, get him reelected and begin looking for our next candidate for 2028. But we can only do that if we win this year. No changing horses in mid stream.
Suppose it was not a photo finish. Suppose the race-crowd was actually left unsure if the horse might even still be inside the starting gate. Suppose there is another horse race in two months time, the winner of which will decide the destiny of the universe.
Its NOT all about optics unless you reinforce the narrative. Optics is a shallow term signaling “Survivor and World Wide Wrestling” are my favorite ventures into truth
No he didn't fail. Bill Katz sounds like a MAGA plant. Thay is exactly what the GQP wants to hear
So am I.
I did not watch the debates because I live in a different time zone and did not need to watch them because I am not undecided. I cannot believe that a poor debate performance would have someone saying that Biden, who has turned our economy into the strongest in the world, who has improved the lives of the middle and lower income people, who is a champion of women's issues, and rights, and who is handling extremely complex global situations without getting the US into a war, and helping the cause of democracy which is under attack worldwide would so disillusion people. Biden could be mediocre and I would have no doubt about him against fascist Trump. Half of my family lived under Communist oppression in East Germany, and I know to some small degree what that is like. If you are wavering in your support of democracy and freedom I recommend you read Prof. Ruth Ben Ghiat's book, Strongmen. It was written during Trump's presidency, so right there she had sized up the man he has become. He was disorganized in implementing a full on fascist government in his first term because he did not expect to win. Now, all the ducks are in order for him to take over full on. If you are not sure what that will look like, read Project 2025. Biden is and continues to be the best president I have ever lived under and my 90-year-old mother says the same thing. She has lived under presidents in both the US and Germany.
I would like to hear Joyce comment on what exactly is the connection between Trump and Project 2025. Trump doesn't care about policies or plans, he cares only for himself, his image, and what is "good" for him in the moment. I know that the extreme right wants Project 2025 but how much does Trump actually want it?
I think trump is a puppet. Get him elected and he'll agree to Project 2025. Trump is easily manipulated. All one has to do is make him think its his idea. He is all about optics. He really does not cares about our country at all. He just wants the power to do whatever he wants, which will not be good for any of us, MAGA included. I will admit I'm a bit scared of a trump regime. It will be the end of our wonderful freedom and people will truly suffer, especially our young. Vote Blue!!!
I'm watching all this from Wales. I totally agree with BC above. I don't think Trump actually wants to be President - which is an incredibly hard job. Like Boris Johnson here, he wants to be 'world king' so he can strut about and leave the work to others. And there's the scary bit - if re-elected, he will leave the work to the writers/supporters of Project 2025. And he'll just strut about playing king. Oh. And coincidentally, his 'staff' will also destroy Ukraine and - potentially - both Israel and Gaza by triggering all out war in the Middle East. Horror for everyone, including Americans.
PS despite my comment, I am optimistic. I honestly believe most Americans have more sense than the press credit them with ❤️
Project 2025 is Heritage Foundation. Heritage Foundation dictated Trump's Supreme Court nominations. Trump is Howdy Doody with a Hitler complex. Answer your question?
I read what Prof. Ruth Ben Ghiat, expert on fascism had to say before the debate in her Substack Lucid. https://open.substack.com/pub/lucid/p/trump-is-using-tonights-debate-to?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I feel she correctly sized up what advantage Trump had from the situation. If you read her article you can let me know what you think. Prof. Vance has been saying we should be reading Project 2025. In fact, she is the one who suggested a book club on it as being a blueprint for what Trump wants to do.
Why wasn’t Project 2025 brought up last night? I really wanted a moderator to ask Trump what he thinks of Project 2025 and how much of it he agrees to “honor and obey” IF he is the next conservative to occupy the White House for 4 years. (I can’t use the words POTUS and Trump in the same sentence anymore)
I’ve thought about this too. Think Trump doesn’t care about 2025. He will be their puppet. That’s what should terrify us. He will be there to kiss their agenda, even though he’ll have no idea what it really is while he’s basking in the glory of his power. Trump will lose but project 2025 unfortunately will live on. We will never be able to trust republicans, ever again.
Probably Jos has Parkinson's. The troops need a general they can have confidence in...Joe is no longer that person.
So quick to diagnose. I did not see it, I see the effects of the work Biden has done. That does not go away in one evening for me as it seems to for you. Bots are busy making people dissatisfied with what they saw. So, the fact that Trump is a fascist is not getting any commentary. Too too bad!
Of course Trump is a fascist. And Biden is not. Trump appears much healthier and energetic. Can't deny any of this.
What? You’re a Dr now? Diagnosing someone you’ve had no contact with whatsoever? Stop it. He could have Dengue fever and our economy is the best it’s been in years, my son had to choose from many jobs offered to him so far this year and the President doesn’t set prices. If you can’t see the difference between a lying convicted felon and an experienced politician who has turned back to building the middle class, negotiating with other countries to fight fascism and bring women to 1st class citizenship, then just keep your shortsightedness to yourself.
Not a doctor? Then please provide a link to these "friendly doctors" comments. Enough said. Now that fact checking is catching up with Trump, he's nothing other than he always is with 34 felonious convictions, huge financial judgements and not capable of answering direct questions. Lies from a convicted felon whether he's a Presidential candidate or not, is still a convicted lying felon. Got it?
Not a Dr. However I've read comments from Biden friendly doctors who think he's showing symptoms. If friendly doctors are saying this how about the non-friendly? This observation has nothing to with what I personally can see or not see. This is all about the voters, the electorate that Biden needs to keep and attract. Going down swinging, is still going down. Can you understand that?
Terry where did you get your medical license? Was it in neurology or gerontology? If not shut your pie hole please!
Excellent response.
Yep, she's a fighter....but a losing bet fighter is still a losing bet.
Again, where did you get your medical degree? Anything you say until you answer that is irrelevant.
I’m presently in England and could not watch. The comments I’m reading are all he was terrible, disappointing, we’re sunk, he needs to drop out, he’s oooold. I don’t give two hoots. I’m voting for Biden. Period.
Whose team are you on, Bill? I don't sense that you believe we're all in this together. YOU may think we've lost, but WE don't!
Sandy B, I think we know who’s side Bill is on. Patterns pattern
He can make that decision, but he is already on the ballot. I always wonder who the "brilliant statesman" is that will rise to the top and step in to save the day. Who do you think that other person is that should replace Joe? Personally, I love Joe and am hoping he will hang in there...we need him just as badly as the last election.
MSNBC went over the results of debates between incumbents and challengers. Of the 4 they mentioned, all bombed the debate; 2 won the election. It isn't a great predictor. BUT Pres. Biden has to work on his presentation skills, and quickly. I saw a clip of him after the debate, at a party. He was energetic, funny and his voice was fine. I have NO IDEA what happened on that debate stage.
I don't care as long as making decisions about the welfare of our country he continues to be who he has been. Why would he not? I also trust his wife to keep things going or move Harris into place if need be. She is the other part of the ticket. Of course we don't have any vice presidential debates lined up because Trump does not have a running mate.
This is what happened to Biden from Heather Cox Richardson: "Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them."
"It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective."
Read Heather Cox Richardson Letters today.
You may feel different after that.
Biden is our President. He is the incumbent. That's where we are.
Our job is to point out exactly what Trump plans for America (Project 2025) and to shine the light of truth on his lies.
Those are our weapons in this fight for democracy. Lock and load sir. You have a voice, please use it!
One night. One gentleman with a cold and not enough rest does not a campaign make. One felon and in all intents rapist, does not a worthy candidate
for president make.
Please don't be negative. I think JV's one paragraph response to this is so encouraging. I will copy and paste to any and all: She said: "I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November."
I don’t think that CNN post-debate panel listened to the latter part of the debate - too busy with seating arrangements and sound checks. They focused on the initial fumbling.
Thing is... I can't think of anyone better for the job at this point in time. Biden had an off night. He's human... timing was not what I had hoped for. For some reason we expect Biden to be perfect, no down moments or gaffs. I don't agree with everything, but I don't have all the information either. I have to trust Biden. Over all Biden is an experienced politician and diplomat. He has a good heart and mind. He has wonderful people working for him AND he listens to them. Who would you have run in his place?
You are so wrong. The insane lying Trump is THE most frightening monster since Frankenstein. The Moderators certainly favored him letting him not answer the questions. The Trump onlyPresident was obviously not well he should have announced his voice problem. He has been on the go in Europe and the US - Trump sounded like he swallowed a teleprompter or was hypnotized to only
Repeat his fantastically repulsive lies - must say I got up and punched his smug and fatuous face on my new TV out of sheer frustration! Not to have competent fact checking in real-time was absurd!!! No doubt from the Trump group! There is NO WAY this Maniac can be elected.
Excuse the error 2nd line wipe out Trump . Should say the President was obviously,,,,,,,,
Check out the Dworkin report Bill. Get that newspaper fuzz out of your ears.
President Biden was painfully off last night. I know there are reasons for that, and I can make allowances, but I am a bleeding-heart liberal. Thank goodness the election is still a way off. I don't think he can be replaced successfully.
Your statement leaves me wondering who you mean by we. I'm not part of your we.
Beshear? Whittmer?? Both Young and healthy
You don't know anything about anyone's health! You know only their appearance which has zip to do with one's ability to do the job we have seen Biden do. We must focus on that! I wonder if the public picked apart the candidate in a wheelchair?
I know enough to not confuse good health with competence. And know enough not to confuse my hoped for outcome with reality. As for the wheelchair. There may be one in Biden's future.....we don't know yet. As for FDR's ...why do you think he kept it hidden and went to such great lengths to appear hearty and healthy?
Because of ignorance about the unimportance of the wheelchair in doing the great job he could and the discrimination he would face due to that ignorance. Why should he subject himself to such cruel judgement?
"And know enough not to confuse my hoped for outcome with reality."
Exactly, Terry. We can hope all we want that people will use facts, reason, logic and evidence when making choices. But we've seen over the course of at least the last decade, that that is not the case. Emotions and appearances are more powerful to many people.
I am disheartened by what happened in last night's debate. Our job has now gotten order of magnitudes harder. But a lot can -- and will -- happen between now and November.
And he fought off the large Nazi group in that election. Dumb luck they picked outvHarrybTruman who was terrific. They thought he was just not much and not start anytrouble
I miss Keith… How do you watch him?
Thanks
K
YouTube: Countdown with Keith Olbermann. Tues thru Fri, plus specials like tonight's post-debate analysis. He is phenomenal.
Go to You Tube and do a search. He’s there Tuesday thru Friday. He’s available via podcast too but there aren’t any ads on YT which is a big plus. Here’s the link to his post debate show tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/live/0q0NNnn_kCE?si=lWPTV-mheL55sfEJ
Thanks for that. The guy with a really big head always made me feel better, just with the energy of outrage he brought.
so...since the live stream has ended, will it be rebroadcast tomorrow?
It's available online to watch anytime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY
I appreciate their efforts at fact checking, but the horse is out of the barn. All the talking heads in the world will not mitigate the damage done. I’m gutted by Biden’s performance.
Since I posted this the other day(or night), when I tried to find Kieth on YT, I couldn’t but his podcast was up and active and still available wherever you get your podcasts.
They don't have lozenges in the white house? And his advance press team never thought to alert the media that Biden was going to be reduced to hoarse whispering?? Anyone can have a bad day, but his press team surely is doing a terrible job managing it. If Biden doesn't go then at least he should fire his staff.
Once again, the fourth estate is vacant…dreadful
Biden should’ve acknowledged that he had a cold at the start of the debate. Waiting till after just looks like an excuse.
If only Olberman had an audience beyond a few...
Posted this at the WaPo 11hrs ago, and, no, I certainly didn't watch the wretched crapshow this evening:
"Two cablenews lightweights are no match for tRump, he knows it, CNN brass know it, and prolly Tapper/Bash know it...so why all the speculating on how this plays out? tRump will go all WWE- "rasslin'" tough-guy schtick, and Biden plays the straight-man rôle, and there you have it: 90 min. of game-show theatricals, followed by hours of live inane "analyses", and thousands of column-inches explaining "what it all means".
Lord, give me strength."
I quit CNN four years ago. They are just another right wing propaganda machine.
I'm sorry, Lance, that's just a bit too cynical for me. And I have experience with cynical, having lived through 8 years of Bush-Cheney, which Molly Ivins characterized as so cynical a regime that you really could hardly keep up.
Damn, don't you miss Molly? She would have managed these "talking heads" around now.
What in Lance's post was too cynical? The tv wrestling thing? Bush took the TX governorship from Richards by lieing and repeatedly beating the same dead horse. What is too cynical about comparing that to tv wrestlers? What would Molly Ivens say about it?
Biden failed his straight-man role. That's the problem. He was meandering, dithering and confused. Given that everyone's expectation was exactly as you write, then why wasn't Biden ready for it?? I had posted a few days ago that it was ominous that Biden chose a white house lawyer to be Trump's standin. Biden was prepping for the wrong debate. How could Biden and his team have not known exactly how Trump would be onstage?
Houston2024 I can’t find the thread to respond to your lozenge reply but Demosthenes is the only character of record who successfully overcame his stutter by practicing speaking with a mouthful of pebbles. I can’t imaging how much more difficult it would have been for the President to speak with a melting lozenge in his mouth. Can you?
The debate was cringeworthy. It caught Biden on a bad night, and was certainly not indicative of his accomplishments and capabilities. Trump was allowed to turn it into a typical rally: ranting, lies, insults, anger, threats, more lies, bigger lies, etc. He got away with everything while two so-called moderators just asked questions a high-schooler could have just as well, and sat there as spectators.
One "debate" should not define Biden, but I knew it would, and it did. It's a shame.
Lance, there ya go
Same thing bothered.No fact checking and he trump told some vicious lies.
CNN had a fact check number after the debate: 30+ lies by trump.
And nobody cares because Biden was not aggressive enough to push back hard enough! Like it or not, it's all about optics, and Biden looked like the 1,000 year old man. I say that as a Biden voter.
"Trump was allowed to simply spout a stream of nonsense without any consequences."
Biden called him a liar several times, but he really needed to challenge and rebut the most egregious lies. I don't think it's up to moderators to fact-check what candidates say - it's left to their opponent to do that, rightly in my view.
Unfortunately that is difficult to do with any thoroughness since everything Trump says is a lie.
Unfortunately, President Biden‘s performance was terrible. The fact of the cold and the resulting hoarseness should have been shared with the public before the debate so people would know what was going on.
Debate rule number one is to look directly into the camera – at the people watching. Failed. Rule number two is keep a straight face no matter what your opponent says. You score points with what you say not with the faces you make
Rule number three is do not get drawn into conversation about what your opponent says. And for God sake, don’t get it drawn into conversation about Golfing abilities. That’s time that could’ve been spent challenging Trump’s lies and challenging the fact that trump tried to turn every question into opportunity to lie about immigration.
I’ve seen a few references that some top Democrats are thinking about a replacement candidate. I don’t know the ins and outs of that strategy, but it’s time to have serious discussions about it.
Re the golf convo, why didn't Joe say "Lets see your fat ass get on a bicycle"! Joe was not prepared with zingers that matter in a televised debate. What happened at Camp David all week? Epic fail.
When the Orange Abomination bragged about winning two championships, Biden should have noted "Of course you did, they were at your clubs" and/or "Not surprised. You did nothing else for during your time in office except play golf."
Biden is not a master of the zinger. Is he supposed to be a superior practitioner of the martial arts? Or would it be good enough for him to have a good grasp of the world today and our role in it?
I am not going to opine on Biden's "performance." But it is far too late to be talking about replacements for President Biden, unless you are talking about 4 years from now.
No, it's not too late.
I agree, I wish Biden had started right off the bat by saying, “hey, I’m sorry my voice is raspy, I’ve got a cold.” That bit of honesty would have been both a good human touch as well.
I’ll agree. No explanation was worse for Biden and did not put him in proper perspective
You ever see the movie The Great Debaters? The side that was not talking was not standing, they were at a table making notes. That's what a debate should look like. And there should be a team of at least two.
Okay, so do you rebut the lies, or do you pretend you're above the opponent's unacceptable tactics and ignore the blather? Which works? I truly don't know. I suspect a large contingent of Democrats will criticize Biden no matter which direction he tacks.
AMEN!! Unfortunately, millions of Americans believe every lie he spews!!
Brainwashed cult members.
Well, that may be the case…Biden should have spoken up, but the reality was the moderators said they were going to be fact checking and they should’ve and they didn’t.
Actually CNN said the moderators would not be fact checking. They said that it would be on the candidates to do that.
that is what I thought. I think Pres. Biden got suckered into back-and forth on issues when he could have been more direct on the lies.
No: Biden, Trump and CNN all agreed in advance that the moderators would not be fact checking. It should have been a great opportunity for Biden to slam Trump on Trump's lies. Instead he starts dithering about beating Trump at golf.....
It was in my opinion am opportunity to say no to this game show format that was not a real debate at all. Robert La Follette was a champion debater back in the days when Americans paid attention to radio broadcast of college debates. At some point the issue needs to be presented, and the arguments made need to be evaluated by judges. The issue in this case was a question, then another question, you get the idea. To not fact check the arguments is to openly admit this format is not a debate format.
Agreed, but at least in the post analysis, they could acknowledge the many, many, lies and not just cover the theatrics.
That’s textbook narcissistic
But every time Biden would hit back at trump.,trump just.turned it back on biden.
He is a bully and even being a convicted felon has not changed him. Judge Merchan needs to put him in solitary for a month.
It’s pretty hard for anyone to debate when one debater is answering a policy question with a policy answer and the other one is spewing nonsense that has nothing to do with the question asked. If I were the pundits right now I would seriously be considering whether Trump has any policies which will move democracy forward in this country. And if not, why not? Trump’s incompetence and incoherence on that debate stage leads me to think he was incapable of even understanding the questions he was asked.
Not hard. You prepare for it. You forcefully slam down the lies. You trick your opponent into just repeating some nonsense. And slam them for it again. Biden didn't do any of that. Worse, Biden meandered into wierd stories like an immigrant murdering some woman when he was supposed to be answering a question on abortion.
There’s a bit of fact checking dribbling out, like on NYTimes, but against the regular wall of stacked lies the media is still helpless. Hard to believe AI can’t be used to flag each incident in real time.
Even AI (which is evil) couldn't keep up!!
We'll finally there's a use for ai
I'm disgusted with media tonight and I'm sure in days/weeks to come! They have a bone and will chew it to dust at Biden's and democracy's expense!
Me too, Scott. Jake and Dana would not rein him in when he declined to answer their questions, instead carrying on with his usual crap.
Two sock puppets from the Cretin News Nertwork, and all the over-educated, under-intelligent, otherwise-unemployable trust fund babies of the Washington Press Corps are safe, they're too worthless to spend money giving them their "just desserts." Add in the "Democrfatic Consultants" (I was in "professional" Democratic politics for 10 years - "Democratic Consutant" is a synonym for "braindead legend in his own mind."It's why I left)
It appears that the decision was made that it was not the role of the moderators to fact check? Candidates were to do it? Pathetic. I too could be a moderator if all I had to do was read questions from a piece of paper. If I were Tapper and Bash, I would not have agreed to those rules. Keeping my mouth shut would have been impossible and dishonest messaging to the public.
Exactly. Biden let Trump spout a stream of nonsense without any push back.
They went into it saying it's difficult to fact check and have a discussion. Their job was to have a discussion. That's the wrong approach. You have to have two people discussing in good faith for that to make sense. Old playbook. There's something much more fundamental at stake here. Who do you believe? Trump's playbook is muddying the waters. Fox News says to believe Trump. Everyone else says believe Biden. Fox is the most watched. Biden needs to stand on stage and just talk about what a liar Trump is. Take every statement. Say it's a lie. Explain how you know it's a lie. (A jury said so.) Say what's true. Explain the consequences of the lie. And explain why that is exploitative of the people he wants to vote for him. That's it. From now until election day. "Trump is a liar. Here's how and why you know." I realize Americans want to believe Trump's lies. They don't like be lied to, though. Which is why you have to keep chipping away at it!
In so many words it was by design not a debate.
I too was horrified that Biden seemingly had NO ONE fact checking. Trump had a great campaign night at Biden’s, who looked old and frail, expense.
I understand thatvthat was agreed upon in the pre-debate negotiations.
yes, but in the post-debate analysis, there should have been one comment about "Trump made things up for every answer, insisted things he said weren't said, and refused to answer the difficult questions. Instead, all they did was describe Biden's troubles, which we should all recognize, there were many.
Mr. Pfeiffer, both Trump and Biden agreed there would be no fact checking from the moderators during the debate. So; no fact checking. Some have complained that Trump was allowed to weasel out of answering about 5 questions. But this is not entirely true. Both Bash and Tapper tried to get him to answer by repeating their questions. He simply refused. Which is, of course a kind of answer in itself. There was nothing they could have done to force him to answer. Break his arm? Yell at him? Kick his shins?
Something more important to me is the remarkable circumstances surrounding their questioning about unions. But, you might say: "The moderators did not ask about unions."
That is the remarkable part. They asked nothing about unions.
12% of American voters are Black. 12% of American wage earners are in unions.
Bash and Tapper thought it was appropriate to ask about Black voters. But not about unionized wage earners. Why do you suppose that is? Unions have been experiencing a resurgence of late. President Biden is the first President in our history to walk a picket line. In Detroit with the UAW.
Please believe me when I say I can bring up more examples of topics of import to millions of Americans which Bash and Tapper willingly left out. You can no doubt bring up topics yourself.
Why did Bash and Tapper leave out unions?
They are both examples of white, upper-middle-class, privileged Americans who feel entitled to their comfortable, and high-paying careers. They are like others of their kind who are completely out of contact with the ordinary working American whose paycheck barely keeps a roof over their head. They are biased, either consciously or not. It does not matter how. The result is bias against wage earners and unions.
This bias is common in American public discourse. To his credit, old Joe Biden is in contact with common American citizens. Like millions of us he swims at the beach; he rides his bicycle and falls off. He loves his vintage Corvette, what American man wouldn't? Let us be honest: Joe Biden is one of us. He will win the election in 2024 and drag along many other Democrats on the ballot with him. Why do I believe this? Because he is one of us and we like him? Not at all. We will re-elect him because of all the policies he has created which have benefitted us all.
Since 1860 up until the present the party holding the White House has always won re-election if they had given the public policies in the preceding four years which benefitted and/or pleased the majority of voters.
Why is it FDR was re-elected four times even though he was a member of the upper class, the wealthy elite, not an ordinary citizen? The answer: he gave us a good life. His programs benefitted everyone, not just those who were like him. Granted FDR is an extraordinary example in the truest sense of the word extraordinary. We have not seen his like since. The closest we came to this kind of extraordinary type was the wealthy, upper class extraordinary John F. Kennedy. Which is exactly why the elite assassinated him. They were terribly afraid of another FDR, this one a young, brilliant, handsome, charming, injured war hero who was clearly unbeatable at the poles. Old Joe Biden is not all those things. But he is smart, kind wise, and experienced enough to have pulled us through the greatest plague since the influenza of 1919 which killed way more people than WWI. He has given us so many good programs that they are too numerous to list here. If he and the Dems. take over in 2024 they can give us all the things that 70% of Americans want, eg. single-payer government health care, universal, quality public education, less expensive housing, public transportation, clean air and water. If they do, they will hold on to the white House for a generation or more. They will force the Republicans to move to the left or they will never have power again.
I didn't ask the moderators to fact check. I was disappointed that the analysis after the debate was all on style, not substance. To ignore the screed of lies was a miss on the part of journalism. I don't think I disagree with your statement, but it has little to do with my comment.
Trump’s fire hose of lies went unchecked, even, in most cases, by Biden. Biden sounded old and tired, though everything he said was true and intelligent. I personally think he wouldn’t even be running if he thought Kamala or Pete Buttigieg could win. I’m definitely worried that our democracy is going down, but encouraged by the conversation with young voters you shared.
Abby, you are correct. Trump’s lies were so pervasive and that should be what we are focused on. Joyce called out one bald faced lie- lowering insulin but another glaring one was that he supported HBCUs- something Biden has actually done. Trump wasn’t just a liar. He was a thief. He was stealing Biden’s policies and work and making it his own. We all have bad days. For all of us, luckily we don’t have to experience those days on television.
If any of us are rethinking Biden’s reelection, don’t. We need to keep our republic.
Bigger lies were that he offered 10,000 National Guard troops during insurrection AND that Nancy Pelosi “recently admitted” that she was responsible for rejecting his offer on Jan6. HUGE WHOPPERS! Shame on Jake and Bash for not stopping the debate and correcting him; 9O% of viewers didn’t know these were outrageous lies when TFG did nothing and watched the insurrection proceed against the police!
That's the problem. The people who need to know he is lying don't know that everything he said tonight was a lie. To them it looks like a confident, energetic man vs. a weak old man. Biden, if he did nothing else, should have called him out on his blatant lies. Even when he did, it didn't stand out. It was all garbled up with facts and figures he had memorized and was trying to recite, which sounded like a recording.
I think you hit the problem, and one of the many MSNBC after-analyzers said it, too. He was too stuffed with facts and figures. His handlers should have let him run, let him be him. He was trying to be a walking encyclopedia,
Spot on Marsha!
There were so many opportunities for Biden to say “The only reason you are running is to stay out of jail” and was disappointed he didn’t seize that moment.
I think Biden was trying to follow the rules and answer the questions. He would have scored points saying that though
Follow the rules? Did anybody tell Biden who he was debating? It was a disaster.
Biden did not seize the moment. Or the other moment or the other moment. Disastrous.
I think we heard you the first time, and the second...
Prison!
Concentrate only on what is inside the package instead of the wrapping paper which is all that was mentioned every where. He's entitled to be tired. Wouldn't anyone traveling as much ych as he had? We need him.
he is entitled, but the whole world saw it. It was NOT a good time to be tired. The Camp David practice seems to have stuffed him full of knowedge but not fire and brimstone. He needed the fire and brimstone. He needed his State of the Union persona.
I’m thinking of the days when I’m carrying a cold around. I feel sluggish and foggy headed and not much like eating, and longing for the day it’s over. Joe had some relax time at the camp so they filled his mind with facts.
Poor handling I’d say.
We will see the fire and brimstone in the Sept debate. He knew who he was debating, but he shouldn't have to lower himself to that level? How would that score points?
We're not rethinking our votes, not even close, but Joe's re-election chances took a big, big hit tonight. And we need him to win to keep our democratic republic democratic.
You are so right. No matter what saving our democracy is what this is la
I have a hard time getting these things right! My sentence above was supposed to say saving democracy is all we need to remember
Well said, Kathi! I hope everyone reads and gets your comment.
Of course we need to keep our republic! That's why Dems need to find a better candidate than Biden STAT! And I'm a Biden voter.
Don't hold your breath, Pamela. Ain't gonna happen.
Could Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom do it
Tonite scared me. I don't know if Biden can make it
BUT I WILL VOTE FOR BIDEN
AS LONG AS HE'S THERE
Maybe they could win, but Harris and Buttigieg are extremely popular among young voters—really Rick stars. It’s just the old voters that have such a huge problem voting for a woman or a gay person.
I'm old and I have no problem voting for a woman or a gay person. Don't generalize.
Whoa, that's quite a generalization.
Signed, an old person
I’m an old person and I’d vote for Harris and Buttigieg in a heartbeat. In the 2020 primary, my vote went to Amy Klobuchar.
I’m also an old person and would definitely vote for Harris and Buttigieg. I voted for Buttigieg in the 2020 primary.
Me too. But what about the country as a whole? We have to beat trump!
Sorry--I didn't mean to generalize about old people. I, too, (an old person), would happily vote for Harris or Buttigieg! But I guess I meant undecided voters are often old-timey conservative and less likely to step out of the straight white male pattern of voting. But I hope I am wrong!
good save! And I agree, as an old person.
As an old person, my version of "old-timey conservative" is that I want intelligence, character, honesty, knowledge and experience. I have no problem stepping out of the straight white male pattern of voting.
We have to win this election, and while I have warmed up to Harris and like Buttigieg, I don’t think either one would be able to win a national election.
Agree. Gavin Newsome?
I watched Gavin on MSNBC from Atlanta last night after the “debate”, he was impressively on point, he had the president’s back 100%. I have liked what I have heard every time I have heard him speak.
he is the star of 2028, assuming he doesn't do anything stupid.
Ah yes, the Obama Doctrine. :-)
NO
Unfortunately that is probably about their characteristics (female, gay) that have nothing to do with their ability to do the job. I'm not sure why we as a country seem to be so focused on the superficial as opposed to what really counts.
I will vote Democrat no matter who the candidate is!
I am an old voter and I would vote for Harris and Buttigieg. I really hope to see one or the other as President one day.
*ROCK stars, not Rick stars 😏
Yeah we knew that, ok
Gavin Newsome
As an old person, I have no problem voting for a woman (I voted for Clinton, it was a no-brainer) or a gay person. The problem I see is that people look at superficial things such as gender and sexual orientation, and not at what really matters: the wherewithal to do the job. I think both Harris and Buttigieg are very competent and I would have no problem voting for either of them.
I resent that comment about old people. Stop generalizing and stereotyping old people.
she corrected it. see above.
That’s an unfair statement.
Biden has been proving for 3 1/2 years that, yes, he can do it. Don’t listen to what people say, watch what they do.
Same, but clearly we need a better candidate for the win. They better do it ASAP or we're gonna get dump again.
Allowing Trump to spew lies without challenge or fact checking makes a mockery of a debate.
That said, Joe could have had a better night.
But Joe at his worst is many times the man Trump is.
AMEN!!!
Biden clearly had laryngitis and was low energy for most of the event, and I’ve read elsewhere he has a cold, but I will remember forever that he said Trump had the morals of an alley cat.
Alley cats deserve much more respect than that. Trump is about as amoral as it is possible to get.
Yea, I believe alley cats engage in ethical non-monogamy, although I realize not all the male cats agree…
😂😂😂
I've just read that Biden had a cold, as well. Plus, prior to the debate, he'd been spending a lot of time prepping for the debate. I think I'd be hoarse, too.
That said, the man is 81 years old & has laryngitis. OK. But, Biden has proven that he's still a VERY capable statesman, surrounds himself with VERY smart ppl, and has earned the respect & trust from other world leaders. Trump? Not at all. Trump's a lying, convicted felon times 34 & wouldn't acknowledge the truth (on anything) if it jumped out of his Diet Coke bottle and said hello. World leaders who are NOT dictators laugh at him & don't want him to be elected.
My vote is STILL for Joe Biden. And, oooh, "the morals of an alley cat"... I'll bet Trump is still steaming about that. 😅
Totally agree Wineaux and you make a very important point—Biden surrounds himself with smart,capable people while tfffg is surrounded by crooks,liars and suckups.
Well yeah, but these "smart, capable people' don't have a clue how to win a debate! Joe looked and sounded awful. And I'm a Biden voter.
This was not a debate. We know what debates look like. Two minutes to answer a question is not a debate. Make up a team and debate one topic. Think about the nonsensical speeches Donnie has been giving. Like tonight, one lie after another. Biden showed up with a cold. It’s not the end of the world. I want to hear loads of Dems talking about the lies today. I want to hear Pelosi take him down. I want to hear actual facts about immigration and the wall. And I want some multibillionaire to buy some drug screening machines NOW. tffg ended the bilateral agreement on immigration. Now he’s planning to do what Reagan did— release the hostages before Inauguration Day. Still knee deep in 💩💩💩 with the same fascists.
Agree. We haven’t seen a true debate in a generation(30)years. It’s that horse race thing that the entertainment arm of tv demands.
And the failure of moderators to enforce their own rules. They were afraid it would look political to shut cf45 up. That self-satisfied smirk on his face is something we should be remembering. Unfit for office!!
Probably took it as a compliment.....
I don’t understand why the moderators allowed (mostly) Trump to answer a question by going back to the last question and not answering the current one. Why not just stop the person and say, “Please answer the current question “. I felt like Trump strategically dug in many times this way. It’s dirty pool. He should have been cut off and forced to answer the question asked.
Thank you for saying this. CNN and tye moderators did a shit job of holding trump accountable. And tge worst of all...they gave Trump the last word??? What? Absolute shit through snd through
they did not give Trump the last word. Biden won a coin toss. He could choose EITHER where he stood on the podium (right or left) or when he did his closing statement- first or last. WHY he chose podium and right, instead of closing statement, and last, is beyond me.
They signaled ahead of the debate that they were not going to do anything other than lob questions.
Sorry, Judy, there were several occasions when both Jake Tapper and Dana Bash tried getting Degenerate Don to answer the question asked, repeatedly, particularly when asked to commit to accepting the results of the election, including after all any litigation was over.
That set of evasions should be central point of many frequent commercials.
They should have cut his mic when he wasn't answering the questions posed. And more than once they let Trump go over his time limit. CNN didn't follow the rules they set up.
Yes. It’s so obvious they were either unprepared or just plain not trying very hard. And that weird set. What was the point of that?? Waste of big bucks. Biden got in a great side eye though. Hope to see it in a commercial.
That was my feeling too. I felt like he should’ve been brought back to answering their question and not be be allowed rebuttal when it wasn’t his choice at that time.
And then they would go back and give him more time to actually answer it, which he would take for more lies and grandstanding! Almost as if we hadn't all seen 8 years of this con man - what he did was predictable.
Absolutely agree. Jake and Dana were afraid of Trump. So disappointing.
Have you been watching lately? CNN is now Fox light.
We watched in horror. The lies, the attitude, the self aggrandizing was hideous, but the stumbling, soft voice and rambling thoughts were so disappointing. We are fully committed to our president. We need to focus on what’s at stake.
I think Biden tried to say too much and too fast, and his stutter took over. That plus the cold made for a bad presentation. But what would YOU do if someone spouted non-stop, easily refutable lies at you. I think he should simple have said "What he said was a full lie, and you can all fact check that at your leisure. Meanwhile, to answer the actual question....."
I don't understand how this happened. His preppers had to know exactly what Trump would say because he only repeats the same few things over and over. Every single person yelling at their TV tonight new exactly how to answer Trump's lies why didn't they?
I think they tried to stuff him full of facts, and he had to remember them to answer. But really, he DIDN'T have to have all those facts stuffed in his head. He needed his energy. Look what he did at both State of the Union addresses. Where was THAT Biden?
A thousand times yes!! Biden needs better advisors STAT if he wants to stay in the race.
I agree, I kept saying to the television. “Joe simply answer the question and do not dignify him with an answer to his ridiculous remarks.”
Me, too. Why does he rise to z
TRUMP’S taunts? Little boys in a peeing contest.
Good point! Let's hope the September debate works out better.
Biden had a full week of debate prep at Camp David. He was terrible tonight! You and I could have prepped him better.
I actually fault his coaching team. He had all kinds of detailed facts memorized but there were no clear central messages with which watchers could identify. He could have simply rotated among the central points and ignored the orange guy — Or made simpler more direct attacks about him needing to stay out of jail, “there he goes again” a la Reagan.
Right! Have a set line about “another lie”
Absolutely. I totally agree with your observations. I think we all would have preferred your suggested response! We were certainly hoping for that. Now, let’s start fact checking!
I've been looking at every fact check I can find so far. Long lists of trump lies.
Sure, but too late now! Why wasn't Biden prepared to refute the BS?
Amen sister, we definitely have to focus on what we’re going to be facing; the reality of freedom of reproductive choice and so many other things that are at stake if we don’t elect Biden, regardless of his soft voice and illness tonight.
And most of all, our democracy itself is at stake.
Indeed. And we need a better candidate in order to win.
And lack of sufficient push back! We need a better candidate STAT!
Joe wasn't up to snuff. Trump lied profusely. I vote for Biden wverytime!
Biden wasn’t advised to stick to sound bites and slam Trump. He should have pointed at Trump and called him a lair and a traitor.
What the bleep went on at Camp David all week? Epic fail.
As I watched, I was thinking the same thing! I have no idea who was coaching Biden. He may have been getting a cold and his voice was quiet, but the content of his answers were weak. Did Biden even mention INFRASTRUCTURE?
I wish he would just scream, “Bullshit!” at Trump rather than using his old man retort, “Malarkey!”
When Trump said people showed up on Jan 6 Biden should have pointed at him and shouted
“You INVITED them!”
Joe needed to push back more and include some 'zingers'. What the bleep went on at Camp David all week? Epic fail.
I admit to being discouraged. I'm not much of a debater, but even I (also 81) could have answered some of those questions better/more coherently and forcefully than Biden did. He seemed to be rattled, needlessly, by a bully. His timing was off. He seemed rushed to cram every point into the allotted time, instead of presenting just the top points, repeatedly and strongly. All that said, I will work to find ways to compensate, as one should as part of a team, which we all are if we understand the stakes. We need to read what gets said about the debate in the press and hit hard on the guts of project 2025.
Yes, I was struck by the fact that he rushed and I couldn’t understand what he was saying; if he would have just slowed down and focused on certain points he would’ve been much better off. Plus, he was obviously ill tonight.
Yes, I couldn't understand him either. The prep week at Camp David was an epic fail.
Yes. Biden was very disappointing and did not seem able to meet the moment. I am very sad about this, but I fear he does not have the strength to win the election. Could a healthier younger more vibrant person replace him at this point, due to health concerns? Not Harris, who could not mount that sort of campaign.
I disagree. Kamala is a powerhouse.
She is, but sadly at this time, our country will not accept a Black woman President. I'm sorry to say that, but we have to be realistic.
Remember, the election is not only about the Presidency.
If the Rs have a trifecta including both houses of Congress, it’s project 2025 with no check or balance. Katy bar the door.
So get to work on the down ballot races!
Correct. We need to have healthy majorities in both houses of Congress, and where possible in other elected offices such as attorney general and judge. This will provide necessary checks and balances no matter who is president. Get to work, folks.
Yes it is, if trump wins.
A Witmer/Shapiro ticket, anyone?
Newsome/Shapiro?
Remember when the polls a few months back reported that a "generic 43 year old white male" wins the race hands down over Biden or Trump with 70% of the vote?
Agree, but needs to happen soon. Maybe Gavin Newsome? The necessary outcome is to defeat trump no matter what.
Maybe the bullying rattled him because he was sick. That could easily have affected his timing, too.
Very nearly everything Trump said tonight was either a bald-faced lie or gross misrepresentation. Admittedly, Biden was not on his A game. But - what really frosted my liver was the way Trump kept trashing the country: “laughingstock of the world,” “no one respects this country any more,” “we’re living in hell and it’s your (Biden’s) fault,” “we’re the worst country in the world,” etc. What???? At least Biden rallied in defense of our great country and the people who make it great. It was all I could do not to put my fist through the computer screen! Someone who denigrates the country and calls it hell - that’s who people want to be in charge? I despair. (Sorry for the rant - I get a little exercised at times)
At least President Biden fought back on that issue and defended our country and our image in the world !
Yes! I was so happy to hear that, too. I’ve never thought of myself as a “rah-rah” person, but boy, Trump managed to push my button on that particular issue tonight.
Your description reinforced my decision, for the sake of my health, to skip a Presidential debate for the first time in 44 years!
I also skipped it. Mainly, I did so because I cannot - WILL not - tolerate the whining voice of TFG. I just can't.
Biden did call him a whiner, multiple times.
I'm not sure what the importance of the debate was, but two incoherent candidates for President. Wow. I understand all the things Joe was trying to say and all the things Trump was lying about, so pretty much a wash for me.
Me too, can't stand him. But Joe did not do well tonight at all. Quite concerning. Maybe you'll catch some clips tomorrow. Don't blame you for skipping it tonight!
Well, I’m glad I was able to help somebody! ❤️
And rightly so. Good for you !! Democracy and decency is threatened by this fool. This bully.
This coward. Standing up to him is the response we need. Biden supporters unite !around a man who cares.
I empathize with your sentiment!
I hope others were able to see and hear trump for who he really is…a blustering, lying, con artist with absolutely no integrity.
I like your positive hope. I, however, have very little hope left for us, because so many voters are star struck by a con artist turned television celebrity.
Unfortunately, Joe's performance tonight was dismal. Whatever was going on at Camp David all week was an epic fail.
One night with a cold and you’re ready to toss him? Some perspective is warranted.
How many times are you going to say that?!? We get it!
Godam the monster was smooth, though. I now fully understand the allure of
Satan
.
I didn’t see Trump as smooth at all. When asked a specific question, he answered with his own agenda totally unrelated to the question. Half the time Trump didn’t even know the answer especially if it related to “What would you do?” Trump had no idea what he would do. He’s totally historically, politically and economically IGNORANT! Golf swings in a Presidential Debate? Give me a break! “I didn’t have sex with a porn star.” Who does he think he’s talking to? Whoops! I know; all those MAGAs who believe anything that comes out of his lying mouth. It is very disturbing that over half of the adult population in the US are hoodwinked because they have no idea how our system of government works or how our economic system works. Ask any MAGA How a bill becomes law”: they won’t know the answer! Trump probably doesn’t either.
Sure he was. But Joe didn't come with the chops to call him out! We Dems are in trouble.
The debate should have been fact checked!
We can only hope…but the problem is some people feel that Biden isn’t up to the job and won’t vote for either of them !
I have met and talked to those types of people. They are the double haters.
I felt badly about Biden's poor presentation. I thought at the beginning he looked like he had had a mini stroke. But he is the one with truth, justice, and care for the country, and the experience to navigate all the roadblocks the GOP throw up. I made an extra donation to Biden's campaign as a show of continued support.
He had a cold. He was sick. He is a good president and a good man. Even the president gets sick.
Who knew that before the debate? I didn't. I thought omg this is not the same man who gave the State of the Union address. A lot of people who are concerned about his age will have their worst suspicions confirmed and may not even see reports that he was under the weather, or may not care.
Yes, that was unfortunate. Even so, I didn't see good results from a week of prep at Camp David. His advisors let him down IMO.
I’d vote for Biden if he were on a ventilator over Trump. But this was pretty bad. He looked a sounded bad. Trump lied his ass off—he’s a bullshitter through and through (look up the book on it). We had a bad night.
I'd vote for Biden 6 feet under lemme tell you that !
But half of the country won't. Maybe more after tonight.
Harry Frankfurt, On Bullshit
I'll look it up.
The real question is: One of these two men will likely be the next President of The United States of America, based on what we know and what we saw tonight, who should be our next president? I am a lifelong unaffiliated voter. I’ve voted Republican and Democratic of the years. I am a 74 year old white guy (very well informed voter) from North Carolina and I will proudly be voting for President Biden
me too. Not gonna vote for a convicted felon. God help us!
It doesn’t matter. Yes, Biden was not himself. He seemed more frail than I’ve seen him. He got confused early in the debate although he did get stronger by the end. But again…it does not matter. I will vote blue no matter because the idea of Trump winning is just too scary. The only worry is people who don’t follow politics and what they will think and do. That may be a big problem. We will see.
Not sure if he got confused as much as off center. I believe it is difficult to even try to debate a man who isnt going by the rules, and to be the one who is honest and really trying to real. As one of the many commentators has said , Biden’s handlers didnt let him be Joe Biden, they bogged him down with numbers
His handlers did him a big disservice. I'm not a political handler but even I know that all he had to do was scream "bullshit" and "lies' all night long. I'm crushed and afraid.
Remember Reagan saying there you go again. No one has to scream. Donthecon knows how to control a situation and put on an act.
What we need to do is we need to all talk to others about what’s really a stake here regardless of how Biden presented tonight !
Totally agree! And I have been. And will continue to do.
I was shocked at Biden's whole self-presentation: hunched, head bowed as Trump railed his lies, hoarse and mumbly, not sharp. I read that it got better after I left the room, but I'm so desperately afraid Biden lost the election tonight. Which I hate hate hate to say.
Donate to Biden's campaign. Don't give up.
Money won't change any first impressions. I will continue to vote and support Biden once again. But it looks like many more voters this time have abandoned reason.
Done. Good suggestion, Ms Snodderly. Spread the word.
I am still in shock from Bidens performance. Trumps lies cascaded in front of him like Niagara Falls nonstop. Trump was ripe for the picking. No mention of the gallows for Pence.......women bleeding in washrooms due to miscarrages........never standing up to protect Nancy Pelosi.........
Jamie Raskin or Jasmine Crockett would have sent 34-0 running for the hills, leaving behind a fully loaded stinking Depends on stage...........still MUST vote Blue top down to save the free world from the Orange MAGA menace.
It was bad. Even after a week of coaching at Camp David, Biden did not deliver the necessary pushback. And yes, he appeared frail. Is there time to find a new candidate? We could be in trouble.
I watched it, I felt badly for Biden but I am not afraid he lost the election
Me too, but I really hope that the public comes to their senses and realizes what’s at stake and the man was just sick. He shouldn’t done this. He had a cold.
Eve, we are not weighing apples to apples here. Trump lied for 90 minutes and Biden had to answer questions which he tried to. If his greatest supporters, us, talk about replacing him, why would anyone vote for him. For almost four years we have held this man to an impossibly high standard. He met the moment almost every time except for tonight. Double down on him. Hope people who don’t watch tv and read papers, didn’t . Hope that a June debate will fade after the July 11 sentencing. If Biden is replaced, Trump will sweep Congress and the presidency. Replacing Biden is not an option. Let’s step up and support Biden tangibly now!
I agree with you that replacing Biden is not an option. The idea of the reprehensibles taking over the whole government is really scary.
And six months ago, his State of the Union address was terrific!
He needs to be replaced as the Democratic candidate for president- ASAP
........Jamie Raskin......Jasmine Crockett VP
Has Orange been faking all the rally goofs????
Are people really that far gone to allow the chronic liar get away with this travisty???
It did get a little better, but not enough to appeal to swing voters IMO. Bad night.
I watched the majority of the debate. Trump bragged and lied, and Joe looked unwell and struggled with his words. It was incredibly difficult to watch.
It was extremely difficult to watch. Biden was not himself. Tffg just steamrolled with lies and self exaggerations! He didn’t answer questions. And most importantly he revealed he won’t accept the outcome of the election. He’s just trying to stay out of jail. Regardless of Biden’s lack of good “performance” the man is honest, smart, experienced and believes in democracy. Tffg can’t hold a light to Biden even when he is ill.
One weak performance does not the man make…old or not.
Agreed