If Donald Trump was anyone other than Donald Trump, he would have pled guilty by now to the charges that are inevitably coming from the Mar-a-Lago search.
It makes sense, on the level of national security, to let people who threaten our security it 'get away with crimes. 'However, it makes me feel sick inside.' At the level of principle it is injustice of the worse kind... it threatens the psyche, undermines believe in justice itself. If 45 threatens to use information against the country, put him in isolation, do not allow anyone to speak to him or hear him. That will solve the dissemination problem... and it would be just, considering the magnitude of the crime.
Any sentence, if he pleads or is found guilty, must deny him the possibility of holding political office again, state or federal. It is the most important and necessary decision the courts can take concerning this flagrant traitor to the Constitution.
Agree but with what feels like get out of jail free card, can a verdict against this guy even include a possibility that he can never hold any public office again? For one thing and in any case he is a braggart extrordinair so he’ll never try to hide. How I wish this nightmare would end
I'm tired of this nightmare as well. He may not go to jail, but he does not have a "get out of trouble free card". If he's found guilty, there has to be some kind of punishment. I know I would go ballistic if he gets away scott free. If found guilty, he MUST be forbidden to hold any office again. I can't see that not happening.
I guess it falls to the Constitution once again, that he's innocent until proven guilty, and that is how he is able to run again. If and when he's found guilty, he should not be permitted to run, but the GOP is such a scrambled up hot mess that amazingly, he's the only candidate they have that stands even a small chance of bringing Republican voters to the polls. DeSantis has no popularity outside of Florida, and the others are all failed candidates from either 2016 or 2020. I honestly don't know why Democrats seem so afraid.
Exactly! Maybe they’ll put him under house arrest with an ankle monitor to live his life at Maralago so he can’t ever run again. He will run anyway and try to convince people to move the president’s office to Florida. He’s stupid enough to try.
Thing is, someone somewhere should have done that to him years ago with a cement overcoat. He screwed his share of “little people” in NYC and NJ. They surely would have saved this country a lot of pain and anguish.
Exactly! I remember that story! I wonder if some of those businesses went out if business because of the severe blow from not getting paid by trump for such a large order.
The Steinway store did. The grandson of the founder was running the store. The Orange Sadist ordered three Steinways grand pianos (around $60,000 each) for his casinos. He never paid. The store went out of business.
The cases cited where the defendants did not go to prison: don’t those people continue to pose a national security threat with the information they have inside their heads and can spread verbally?
Yah, right? There must be a way to present evidence concerning highly classified documents, without revealing what’s inside the classified documents!!!
We have to be able to prosecute people for mishandling such information — and possibly treason, for heaven’s sake!!!!
We can possibly recover from horrible breaches in security, as long as they do not end up in a military attack. But, recovery from a loss of trust in people and government is also a devastating attach on a government of the people... dependent upon that trust. Yes, Ruthie you are so right, they both are treasonous.
If the US government has the power to detain people who have never been charged with a crime because of what it thinks they might do (I'm referring to Guantanamo), why doesn't it do the same thing with people who were at risk of selling top secret information but haven't done so?
Hi Marycat, I don't want to cause you more pain, it seems something in this detention has scared you. But, I really don't know what laws allow the US to do this. Since you brought it up, I'd like to know. Can you tell me?
What are you talking about? I'm not in "pain." Nor am I "scared."
My comment was a rhetorical question. I certainly, however, hope you don't think those old men trapped in Gitmo for no good reason are "enemy combatants," or that they deserve to be there because they're not US citizens.
And I certainly do not appreciate your references to what you think is my emotional state. Please try to address the subject at hand, and keep personal observations about me to yourself. Thank you.
Wouldn't surprise me if he hasn't shared information already for special treatment of his business interests., giant puss bag that he is. That is the scariest part.
My thought exactly, Leslie! What about the Saudis???? They gave $2 billion to Jared Bin Lyin’ and nothing is in the news about THAT travesty. Maybe Jared sold them the secrets his criminal father in law stole for him....just sayin’.
I agree, Lynn and Joyce. They can build a special small room for him and keep him in isolation, like they did for El Chapo in Mexico. He did escape through tunnels prepared for him, but he was eventually captured by the US. He was tried, found guilty and sentenced to one of the most maximum security federal prisons. He comes to mind as someone who did great damage to his country and ours.
Joyce: the latest news about audio recordings and the top secret Iran document raise issues we would appreciate if you would address? As you well know, the reporting suggests that the original doc (assuming it is real) is missing? Obviously, DoD has a copy if it is a real doc! Does this suggest that either 45 still has it in his possession, or that he gave it to someone or some foreign power, or the whole thing really is a “hoax” because he was showing off when the recording was made and he really had a blank piece of paper in his hand or some other unclassified doc in his hand?
So what is your speculation about it and if it was a real doc that is now really “missing,” is he in hot water to the Nth degree? Thank you!
Susrely do wish people would stick to what's known and stop making wild conjectures. Those conjectures are what keep throwing off track as we try to understand what the truth is. Conjecture and assumptions about motivations have no place in a discussion that needs to be careful about the difference between fact and gossip.
Tfg wants to delay a prosecution until he’s well into his campaign. Then he’ll file whatever motions his lawyers invent and will delay until the election is nearly at hand. If heaven help us his minions have gerrymandered and voter suppressed enough to claim victory, he’ll assert immunity to prosecution and will appeal that all the way to a fascist SCOTUS. The devil always has survival instincts. We need to turn out every Democratic vote and prosecute him yesterday to prevent this.
Regarding the voter suppression concerns. It is my belief that the 2020 wins in Arizona and Georgia are the most vivid examples that voting machines and our apparatus do function. Last year, the special election referendum in Kansas, and the recent special election in Wisconsin reiterate my point.
THE most vital activity for summer 2023 and beyond, is involvement with one's town and county Democratic Party. NOW is the time to plan a street by street outreach effort.
Absolutely. It is imperative that we fight against the forces out there trying to overthrow our democratic system from the ground up. Everyone should be paying close attention to their local elections.
What I'm most concerned about (in addition to No Labels) is the new Texas law allowing the Secretary of State to "intervene" in the results of an election if complaints are filed about how the election was handled. It applies to any county with more than 4,000,000 people thus it applies only to a single county (Harris County, largely Democratic voters).
Excerpt: "Last week, Harris County Attorney Christian Menefee said the county was preparing to sue the state over the new measures.
“The Texas Constitution is clear: The Legislature can’t pass laws that target one specific city or one specific county,” Menefee said. "
Thank you, Judith. I did hear/read ? about this law targeting Harris County. There is so much corruption in state government in Texas. It is outrageous and so partisan, thus MAGA fascist. I’m sure Marc Elias, counsel for the DNC will be right on it.
Yes, we have to register new Democratic voters, do deep canvassing, build our bench of activists. This is no time to let fascist wannabes wear us down.
I was so pissed reading this, excused me, Joyce. Holder's explanation for not convicting the General is lame. Letting Nixon resign and the pardoning him was/is unforgivable. And the list is long for those, even previous presidents that should have been impeached and convicted and never held accountable. If they had, we wouldn't be in this 'should we or shouldn't' we BS today. Of course, we should and it's way overdue for us to treat all politician with the same Rule of Law the average citizens must abide by. "Trump kept the documents for a long period of time, at least 18 months, although there is some suggestion that federal prosecutors are not confident everything has been returned even now. " What I keep going back to 1. No one or agency seems to know what is missing? And if that is a fair statement, we have a bigger problem than Trump. 2. The DOJ, as in M. Garland drag his feet way too long. I just hope SP Smith brings some of the ethics and courage that is often seen at The Hague.
In addition, we should have a tribunal of Judges, could be from the military, that have the highest security classification hearing these trials, then the security of our country would guarantee.
Not necessary. The judge and jury do not have to know what's in the classified documents, only accept the National Archives' designation of them as such. FYI, there is no "highest security classification" for federal employees; each employee's security clearance corresponds to what their job is. There is no reason for a judge to need a security clearance.
National security clearances are organized into a hierarchy. Each of the three levels below indicates the maximum level of classified information you can access.
Confidential clearance: This type of security clearance is the least restrictive. It provides access to information that can cause damage to national security if it is disclosed without authorization. It must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every 15 years. Additionally, confidential clearance requires a National Agency Check, Local Agency Check, and Credit Check (NACLC) [2].
Secret clearance: Provides access to information that can cause serious damage to national security if disclosed without authorization. Must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every 10 years and requires NACLC and a Credit investigation [2].
Top secret clearance: This type of security clearance is the most restrictive and provides access to information that can cause grave damage to national security if disclosed without authorization. Must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every five years. Typically granted after a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI), for data related to counterterrorism, counterintelligence, and other extremely sensitive information [2].
Don’t you think, though, that he showed his kids and close staffers this information, just to show off what he has? How many have secretly photographed the pages or even copied the top secret documents. The son-in-law Kushner got, what, a 100 billion from the Saudi government? The crown prince overruled everyone. What did Kushner give, even while in the White House, to get that kind of investment?? I’d sure like that investigated. DOJ needs to hire more prosecutors to go after all the crimes that family committed.
Marilyn, that's the supposed to be. It does not necessarily represent what actually is. The reviews don't always happen. Some things are classified, not for security, but to avoid scrutiny (and embarrassment). Many things that should have been released simply sit in classification limbo for decades. It is clear from a number of recent incidents that classification can be both leaky and arbitrary. In addition, there is the additional questions about who gets to see classified documents and where.
As for a selected tribunal of judges, possibly military, to assess charges of classified malfeasance: NO! That's one more step away from a democratic civilian government. Who the hell would appoint these judges? The thought sends shivers up my spine.
I, too, find myself outraged and fatigued at the pace of the investigation and the slow roll of revelations, each one more disturbing than the last. Do we have the discipline as a people to maintain the appropriate level of intensity to get this case to court and adjudicated? It scares me that I am so tired.
You speak for a lot of us! Back when we awaited the Mueller Report, we had hope that accountability would prevail. Barr and Giuliani whittled it down to a nothingburger. Then we hoped the New York court would hold him accountable for tax fraud. Civil case and he wrote a check and walked away. Now we wait (and wait and wait) for Garland and Smith.
I'm old. (I don't even buy green bananas anymore.) The pace of prosecution of incident after incident with no accountability has ground me down. Like you, this is the most fatigue I've ever felt. So much for our carefree golden years.
Mr. Patrick, hear you. I am so tired of the press with their speculations, hyperbole and just plain lies. Good example is how President Biden has been able to make them look like bloody fools with his progress and their rants that it wouldn't happen. The only show I watch anymore is Monday nights Dr. Rachel Maddow. And, of course, Joyce. I trust them both.
Consider the ongoing threat Trump is to the US from a national security perspective, why can't they arrest and install him at Gitmo along with all the other people being held that are threats to our nation? He is just as dangerous if not more so.
We all know by now that this is untrue: " Of course, if he was smart," as well as completely against his nature. He probably has access to smart advisors - but to paraphrase Ben Franklin about advice,
"A wise man doesn't need it
And a fool won't heed it."
We can only hope that his clear lack of common sense and his own big mouth does him in and eventually leads to time in jail. But we shall see. He seems to have an uncanny knack for evading any consequences of his lies, misdeeds and outright crimes.
Poor little rich kid. Nobody ever told him no. Any mistake he ever made was somebody else's fault. Got bailed out of any trouble with dad's check book. Has never had any consequences.
The annoyed look on his face when he walked into the courtroom and NOBODY HELD THE DOOR OPEN FOR HIM spoke volumes.
Despite his conviction for retaining classified documents, sharing them w/ his lover, and lying about that to the FBI, General Petraeus has received numerous academic honors and positions, is on the boards of directors of several companies. It makes sense Trump would have considered another liar to be his Secretary of State. Perhaps DOJ and the world consider a man having an extra-marital affair w/ his biographer to be so affected by hormones, lust, and ego that betraying his oath was simply a case of "boys will be boys" and not deserving of a meaningful felony conviction.
It's a lesson for future potential traitors: there's money, status, and a career to be made. Perhaps Trump is learning from Petraeus after all: no punishment, no shaming, lots of glory.
Helen - also a retired nurse. After helping people through the worst days of their lives, I was looking forward to a few carefree golden years, not this!
Dear Miss Penelope! When this whole shutstorm has finally blown over - hopefully SOON - It will be time for America to review / revise many of the provisions of its legal system. For all their wisdom the Founding Fathers could never have envisaged that a despicable criminal scumbag like #45 would ever become president. Likewise for many SCOTUS justices who have defiled the oath of office many of them never really took. And that doesn't consider the 200 odd representatives who should have been imprisoned for treason a long time ago! God save America - you're going to need all the help you can get!
We need to lance this boil. The great unwashed will rise up and they need to be dealt with accordingly by a massive federal force, unlike J6. Bullies need to be dealt with and we cannot let the "unpleasantness" stop us from finally dealing with those who would destroy our nation. Charge, convict and jail him. Deal with the protests in a strong, legal manner. Zero tolerance with the fake militias and guys sporting tactical gear. They are bullies and it is time to smash them in the mouth or suffer their rule forever. This is the line we cannot cross.
If he’s indicted for everything short of dissemination (which might be the subject of a superceding indictment), how could he avoid being taken into custody? Wouldn’t remaining free be unjustifiable special treatment? Could bail be withheld?
What Trump has done, crimes he’s committed, are unconscionable. If I were the judge, at this point, after all the b.s. he’s put out about how this is a “witch hunt” and all, I’d refuse to accept his plea of guilty. He can stand trial.
Trump is looking at 5-20 years on one charge, alone. I’m going to be really honest here. The only prayer he has is if he can get one of his hard core MAGA followers on the jury. Then, and only then, he might have a chance at beating this. Because that one person will never find Trump guilty of anything. I honestly believe this is what’s he’s gambling on.
Another thing. Trump will never survive a federal prison. He’s not built for it.
What about a MAGA judge though? I shudder at the thought. This case needs to be tried in DC where the judges seem honorable, plus the (1st?) circuit court. If tried in Florida, heaven help us all. He’ll get the one that tried to shutdown the investigation or delay it so much, he was laughing at DOJ the whole time for that delay.
The malignant narcissist is invested with a kind of hubris that cannot imagine himself unable to dodge consequences for his actions as he has managed to do for many years in the private sector. He'll disavow both his culpability and the weight of the law right to the jailhouse door. Negotiating for a misdemeanor charge would be tantamount to admitting guilt, which he will never do.
Dear learned friend: why on this good earth would tfg plead guilty for the exact reasons you just stated above - there appear to be no consequences for their actions or those like them. IMHO, their actions may not fall under the current definition of treason but they have and will continue to cause great irreparable harm to the USA, and it's democracy and placed it's citizentry in actual physical danger and should suffer the natural consequences for doing so.
It makes sense, on the level of national security, to let people who threaten our security it 'get away with crimes. 'However, it makes me feel sick inside.' At the level of principle it is injustice of the worse kind... it threatens the psyche, undermines believe in justice itself. If 45 threatens to use information against the country, put him in isolation, do not allow anyone to speak to him or hear him. That will solve the dissemination problem... and it would be just, considering the magnitude of the crime.
Exactly. It's good to go into this knowing the background, while still hoping the system will manage to hold Trump truly accountable.
Any sentence, if he pleads or is found guilty, must deny him the possibility of holding political office again, state or federal. It is the most important and necessary decision the courts can take concerning this flagrant traitor to the Constitution.
Agree but with what feels like get out of jail free card, can a verdict against this guy even include a possibility that he can never hold any public office again? For one thing and in any case he is a braggart extrordinair so he’ll never try to hide. How I wish this nightmare would end
I'm tired of this nightmare as well. He may not go to jail, but he does not have a "get out of trouble free card". If he's found guilty, there has to be some kind of punishment. I know I would go ballistic if he gets away scott free. If found guilty, he MUST be forbidden to hold any office again. I can't see that not happening.
I guess it falls to the Constitution once again, that he's innocent until proven guilty, and that is how he is able to run again. If and when he's found guilty, he should not be permitted to run, but the GOP is such a scrambled up hot mess that amazingly, he's the only candidate they have that stands even a small chance of bringing Republican voters to the polls. DeSantis has no popularity outside of Florida, and the others are all failed candidates from either 2016 or 2020. I honestly don't know why Democrats seem so afraid.
I think the law will let him: Eugene Debs ran from jail in 1920 despite a seditious conspiracy charge and 10 year sentence.
HIstory.
Exactly! Maybe they’ll put him under house arrest with an ankle monitor to live his life at Maralago so he can’t ever run again. He will run anyway and try to convince people to move the president’s office to Florida. He’s stupid enough to try.
Those are pretty nice digs. Maybe confine him to one of the bungalows and have guards to manage the cult followers?
Shucks, they should do that anyhow, on general principles.
Thing is, someone somewhere should have done that to him years ago with a cement overcoat. He screwed his share of “little people” in NYC and NJ. They surely would have saved this country a lot of pain and anguish.
Yeah: all those contractors who got stiffed by trump.
And Steinway piano salesmen.
Exactly! I remember that story! I wonder if some of those businesses went out if business because of the severe blow from not getting paid by trump for such a large order.
The Steinway store did. The grandson of the founder was running the store. The Orange Sadist ordered three Steinways grand pianos (around $60,000 each) for his casinos. He never paid. The store went out of business.
Which probably goes to prove that most people in the US are decent people after all. The media just doesn't over that aspect much.
The cases cited where the defendants did not go to prison: don’t those people continue to pose a national security threat with the information they have inside their heads and can spread verbally?
Seems more a threat out of prison than in prison, doesn't it?
Yah, right? There must be a way to present evidence concerning highly classified documents, without revealing what’s inside the classified documents!!!
We have to be able to prosecute people for mishandling such information — and possibly treason, for heaven’s sake!!!!
We can possibly recover from horrible breaches in security, as long as they do not end up in a military attack. But, recovery from a loss of trust in people and government is also a devastating attach on a government of the people... dependent upon that trust. Yes, Ruthie you are so right, they both are treasonous.
If the US government has the power to detain people who have never been charged with a crime because of what it thinks they might do (I'm referring to Guantanamo), why doesn't it do the same thing with people who were at risk of selling top secret information but haven't done so?
It may depend if they are citizens of US or enemy combatants. Maybe Joyce will explain how this works.
I know how it "works." And it's an abomination and a big, dirty mark on our country.
Hi Marycat, I don't want to cause you more pain, it seems something in this detention has scared you. But, I really don't know what laws allow the US to do this. Since you brought it up, I'd like to know. Can you tell me?
What are you talking about? I'm not in "pain." Nor am I "scared."
My comment was a rhetorical question. I certainly, however, hope you don't think those old men trapped in Gitmo for no good reason are "enemy combatants," or that they deserve to be there because they're not US citizens.
And I certainly do not appreciate your references to what you think is my emotional state. Please try to address the subject at hand, and keep personal observations about me to yourself. Thank you.
Wouldn't surprise me if he hasn't shared information already for special treatment of his business interests., giant puss bag that he is. That is the scariest part.
My thought exactly, Leslie! What about the Saudis???? They gave $2 billion to Jared Bin Lyin’ and nothing is in the news about THAT travesty. Maybe Jared sold them the secrets his criminal father in law stole for him....just sayin’.
I agree, Lynn and Joyce. They can build a special small room for him and keep him in isolation, like they did for El Chapo in Mexico. He did escape through tunnels prepared for him, but he was eventually captured by the US. He was tried, found guilty and sentenced to one of the most maximum security federal prisons. He comes to mind as someone who did great damage to his country and ours.
Incredibly grateful for the Master Class you teach with every post you write. Thank you. Now, c’mon DOJ. Indict DJT.
Thank you.
Joyce: the latest news about audio recordings and the top secret Iran document raise issues we would appreciate if you would address? As you well know, the reporting suggests that the original doc (assuming it is real) is missing? Obviously, DoD has a copy if it is a real doc! Does this suggest that either 45 still has it in his possession, or that he gave it to someone or some foreign power, or the whole thing really is a “hoax” because he was showing off when the recording was made and he really had a blank piece of paper in his hand or some other unclassified doc in his hand?
So what is your speculation about it and if it was a real doc that is now really “missing,” is he in hot water to the Nth degree? Thank you!
First tee at Bedminster - get the shovels out!
It's on Bonesaw's desk or in the sewer system, one of the two.
My guess is that's what Maggie Haberman watched him flush down the toilet (and kept the crimes a secret to sell her book).
Susrely do wish people would stick to what's known and stop making wild conjectures. Those conjectures are what keep throwing off track as we try to understand what the truth is. Conjecture and assumptions about motivations have no place in a discussion that needs to be careful about the difference between fact and gossip.
Yes, would be interesting to hear Joyce’s take on this issue.
I think the US government owns lots of remote islands.
Yes! Excellent suggestion! Sort of like Napoleon's island.
Tfg wants to delay a prosecution until he’s well into his campaign. Then he’ll file whatever motions his lawyers invent and will delay until the election is nearly at hand. If heaven help us his minions have gerrymandered and voter suppressed enough to claim victory, he’ll assert immunity to prosecution and will appeal that all the way to a fascist SCOTUS. The devil always has survival instincts. We need to turn out every Democratic vote and prosecute him yesterday to prevent this.
Regarding the voter suppression concerns. It is my belief that the 2020 wins in Arizona and Georgia are the most vivid examples that voting machines and our apparatus do function. Last year, the special election referendum in Kansas, and the recent special election in Wisconsin reiterate my point.
THE most vital activity for summer 2023 and beyond, is involvement with one's town and county Democratic Party. NOW is the time to plan a street by street outreach effort.
Absolutely. It is imperative that we fight against the forces out there trying to overthrow our democratic system from the ground up. Everyone should be paying close attention to their local elections.
What I'm most concerned about (in addition to No Labels) is the new Texas law allowing the Secretary of State to "intervene" in the results of an election if complaints are filed about how the election was handled. It applies to any county with more than 4,000,000 people thus it applies only to a single county (Harris County, largely Democratic voters).
Excerpt: "Last week, Harris County Attorney Christian Menefee said the county was preparing to sue the state over the new measures.
“The Texas Constitution is clear: The Legislature can’t pass laws that target one specific city or one specific county,” Menefee said. "
https://texas.votebeat.org/2023/6/1/23744697/harris-county-elections-state-oversight-law
Don't miss the additional articles linked after the end of this one.
Judith, fantastic link and information. Thank you!
Thank you, Judith. I did hear/read ? about this law targeting Harris County. There is so much corruption in state government in Texas. It is outrageous and so partisan, thus MAGA fascist. I’m sure Marc Elias, counsel for the DNC will be right on it.
Agree! The Orange One is a bottomless pit of lawlessness.
Yes, we have to register new Democratic voters, do deep canvassing, build our bench of activists. This is no time to let fascist wannabes wear us down.
I was so pissed reading this, excused me, Joyce. Holder's explanation for not convicting the General is lame. Letting Nixon resign and the pardoning him was/is unforgivable. And the list is long for those, even previous presidents that should have been impeached and convicted and never held accountable. If they had, we wouldn't be in this 'should we or shouldn't' we BS today. Of course, we should and it's way overdue for us to treat all politician with the same Rule of Law the average citizens must abide by. "Trump kept the documents for a long period of time, at least 18 months, although there is some suggestion that federal prosecutors are not confident everything has been returned even now. " What I keep going back to 1. No one or agency seems to know what is missing? And if that is a fair statement, we have a bigger problem than Trump. 2. The DOJ, as in M. Garland drag his feet way too long. I just hope SP Smith brings some of the ethics and courage that is often seen at The Hague.
In addition, we should have a tribunal of Judges, could be from the military, that have the highest security classification hearing these trials, then the security of our country would guarantee.
Not necessary. The judge and jury do not have to know what's in the classified documents, only accept the National Archives' designation of them as such. FYI, there is no "highest security classification" for federal employees; each employee's security clearance corresponds to what their job is. There is no reason for a judge to need a security clearance.
National security clearances are organized into a hierarchy. Each of the three levels below indicates the maximum level of classified information you can access.
Confidential clearance: This type of security clearance is the least restrictive. It provides access to information that can cause damage to national security if it is disclosed without authorization. It must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every 15 years. Additionally, confidential clearance requires a National Agency Check, Local Agency Check, and Credit Check (NACLC) [2].
Secret clearance: Provides access to information that can cause serious damage to national security if disclosed without authorization. Must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every 10 years and requires NACLC and a Credit investigation [2].
Top secret clearance: This type of security clearance is the most restrictive and provides access to information that can cause grave damage to national security if disclosed without authorization. Must be reinvestigated for continued eligibility every five years. Typically granted after a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI), for data related to counterterrorism, counterintelligence, and other extremely sensitive information [2].
Don’t you think, though, that he showed his kids and close staffers this information, just to show off what he has? How many have secretly photographed the pages or even copied the top secret documents. The son-in-law Kushner got, what, a 100 billion from the Saudi government? The crown prince overruled everyone. What did Kushner give, even while in the White House, to get that kind of investment?? I’d sure like that investigated. DOJ needs to hire more prosecutors to go after all the crimes that family committed.
Marilyn, that's the supposed to be. It does not necessarily represent what actually is. The reviews don't always happen. Some things are classified, not for security, but to avoid scrutiny (and embarrassment). Many things that should have been released simply sit in classification limbo for decades. It is clear from a number of recent incidents that classification can be both leaky and arbitrary. In addition, there is the additional questions about who gets to see classified documents and where.
As for a selected tribunal of judges, possibly military, to assess charges of classified malfeasance: NO! That's one more step away from a democratic civilian government. Who the hell would appoint these judges? The thought sends shivers up my spine.
I know all this; I was in the military; I wasn't trying to write a book.
Thank you for writing this. That Holder quote upset me on a very, very, very deep level.
Me too.
I, too, find myself outraged and fatigued at the pace of the investigation and the slow roll of revelations, each one more disturbing than the last. Do we have the discipline as a people to maintain the appropriate level of intensity to get this case to court and adjudicated? It scares me that I am so tired.
Dr Patrick
You speak for a lot of us! Back when we awaited the Mueller Report, we had hope that accountability would prevail. Barr and Giuliani whittled it down to a nothingburger. Then we hoped the New York court would hold him accountable for tax fraud. Civil case and he wrote a check and walked away. Now we wait (and wait and wait) for Garland and Smith.
I'm old. (I don't even buy green bananas anymore.) The pace of prosecution of incident after incident with no accountability has ground me down. Like you, this is the most fatigue I've ever felt. So much for our carefree golden years.
Mr. Patrick, hear you. I am so tired of the press with their speculations, hyperbole and just plain lies. Good example is how President Biden has been able to make them look like bloody fools with his progress and their rants that it wouldn't happen. The only show I watch anymore is Monday nights Dr. Rachel Maddow. And, of course, Joyce. I trust them both.
Consider the ongoing threat Trump is to the US from a national security perspective, why can't they arrest and install him at Gitmo along with all the other people being held that are threats to our nation? He is just as dangerous if not more so.
We all know by now that this is untrue: " Of course, if he was smart," as well as completely against his nature. He probably has access to smart advisors - but to paraphrase Ben Franklin about advice,
"A wise man doesn't need it
And a fool won't heed it."
We can only hope that his clear lack of common sense and his own big mouth does him in and eventually leads to time in jail. But we shall see. He seems to have an uncanny knack for evading any consequences of his lies, misdeeds and outright crimes.
Poor little rich kid. Nobody ever told him no. Any mistake he ever made was somebody else's fault. Got bailed out of any trouble with dad's check book. Has never had any consequences.
The annoyed look on his face when he walked into the courtroom and NOBODY HELD THE DOOR OPEN FOR HIM spoke volumes.
20 years in a windowless 8x10 cell on the third sub-basement level of the Florence SuperMax. I think that will be appropriate.
Question: what do you call 20 years in a windowless cell?
Answer: a good start.
Despite his conviction for retaining classified documents, sharing them w/ his lover, and lying about that to the FBI, General Petraeus has received numerous academic honors and positions, is on the boards of directors of several companies. It makes sense Trump would have considered another liar to be his Secretary of State. Perhaps DOJ and the world consider a man having an extra-marital affair w/ his biographer to be so affected by hormones, lust, and ego that betraying his oath was simply a case of "boys will be boys" and not deserving of a meaningful felony conviction.
It's a lesson for future potential traitors: there's money, status, and a career to be made. Perhaps Trump is learning from Petraeus after all: no punishment, no shaming, lots of glory.
That was a travesty
Helen - also a retired nurse. After helping people through the worst days of their lives, I was looking forward to a few carefree golden years, not this!
Dear Miss Penelope! When this whole shutstorm has finally blown over - hopefully SOON - It will be time for America to review / revise many of the provisions of its legal system. For all their wisdom the Founding Fathers could never have envisaged that a despicable criminal scumbag like #45 would ever become president. Likewise for many SCOTUS justices who have defiled the oath of office many of them never really took. And that doesn't consider the 200 odd representatives who should have been imprisoned for treason a long time ago! God save America - you're going to need all the help you can get!
We need to lance this boil. The great unwashed will rise up and they need to be dealt with accordingly by a massive federal force, unlike J6. Bullies need to be dealt with and we cannot let the "unpleasantness" stop us from finally dealing with those who would destroy our nation. Charge, convict and jail him. Deal with the protests in a strong, legal manner. Zero tolerance with the fake militias and guys sporting tactical gear. They are bullies and it is time to smash them in the mouth or suffer their rule forever. This is the line we cannot cross.
If he’s indicted for everything short of dissemination (which might be the subject of a superceding indictment), how could he avoid being taken into custody? Wouldn’t remaining free be unjustifiable special treatment? Could bail be withheld?
What Trump has done, crimes he’s committed, are unconscionable. If I were the judge, at this point, after all the b.s. he’s put out about how this is a “witch hunt” and all, I’d refuse to accept his plea of guilty. He can stand trial.
Trump is looking at 5-20 years on one charge, alone. I’m going to be really honest here. The only prayer he has is if he can get one of his hard core MAGA followers on the jury. Then, and only then, he might have a chance at beating this. Because that one person will never find Trump guilty of anything. I honestly believe this is what’s he’s gambling on.
Another thing. Trump will never survive a federal prison. He’s not built for it.
What about a MAGA judge though? I shudder at the thought. This case needs to be tried in DC where the judges seem honorable, plus the (1st?) circuit court. If tried in Florida, heaven help us all. He’ll get the one that tried to shutdown the investigation or delay it so much, he was laughing at DOJ the whole time for that delay.
I’m almost positive he’ll be tried in Washington DC. That’s where the crime was committed, even espionage.
Suits me just fine.
Thanks, Joyce! Pure brilliance as usual! And the beat goes on and on and on…..
The malignant narcissist is invested with a kind of hubris that cannot imagine himself unable to dodge consequences for his actions as he has managed to do for many years in the private sector. He'll disavow both his culpability and the weight of the law right to the jailhouse door. Negotiating for a misdemeanor charge would be tantamount to admitting guilt, which he will never do.
Thanks for the detailed descriptions again Joyce. KARMA to TFG.... peace☮️
Dear learned friend: why on this good earth would tfg plead guilty for the exact reasons you just stated above - there appear to be no consequences for their actions or those like them. IMHO, their actions may not fall under the current definition of treason but they have and will continue to cause great irreparable harm to the USA, and it's democracy and placed it's citizentry in actual physical danger and should suffer the natural consequences for doing so.
What is “TFG”? I know it refers to trump, but does it stand for?
TFG=The Former Guy :)
*WHAT does it stand for?