Tomorrow morning, Monday, at 10:30 am ET, Vin Gupta (Vin here on Substack) joins me for a live chat, following up on his excellent Five Questions column with us Friday night.
When I was a child, I stood in line with just about every kid I knew to get the polio vaccine (via sugar cube - way better than injection!). Wasn't my choice -- I did it because my oldest cousin had actually contracted polio (a relatively mild case, as it turned out). But the adults in my family recognized intuitively that science works, and they climbed aboard the vaccination express for the duration of my childhood (measles, mumps, rubella, etc).
My question, Dr. Gupta, is how is it possible that 21st Century parents are blind to the benefits that were commonly known to far less educated (theoretically) parents in the 1950's?
Given the extreme politicization and loss of talent throughout all key federal agencies, how skeptical should we be of the Taylor Farms/lettuce conclusion???
While I share your skepticism, Amy, I'm reasonably confident in the CDC's initial 'diagnosis'.
The highlighted breakdown here should be the enormous footprint of a corporate operation the size of Taylor Farms. They aren't pitching heads of lettuce at farmers markets -- they're selling trainloads of processed produce at the wholesale level internationally. It's that very scale which makes the conclusion relatively easy to reach. (And bear in mind -- the initial contamination can impact a very, very small sample of the product.)
I understand the ease with which lettuce is contaminated as well as Taylor’s massive footprint. My skepticism stems from the ability of people to recall what they ate and when. Nearly everyone eats lettuce, especially via fast foods outlets. Blaming lettuce and Taylor just seems a bit too easy.
Iceberg lettuce, specifically.. which some of us would never eat but is cheap and used as filler in many restaurants and fast food outlets. There are those of us who don't eat fast food nor at restaurants in general. Taylor Farms is a massive operation and supplies institutions but also markets bagged pre-mixed salads for retailers (many mixes do not include iceberg lettuce).
Yes, which makes them an easy target because the incubation period is 2 to 24 days with the average being a week. Most people barely remember what they ate yesterday much less two weeks ago. And since lettuce is ubiquitous, most people will
say “sure” when asked if they’ve eaten it in the past two weeks. So, that’s my skepticism: Trump’s guys love to claim an easy victory. How do we trust their tracing?
Per the WSJ: The FDA on Sunday said it has yet to identify the presence of cyclospora on samples of lettuce from the company despite recent tests. The agency now deems the detection that it reported Saturday a false positive after laboratory experts reviewed the sample results.
It's ironic that Taylor Farms is being blamed, as last March 2025, they gave MAGA Inc. $1M USD less than a week after FDA postponed implementation of food traceability rules.
The dismantling of government agencies that guard the health and well-being of the people of this country, and of the world, has proven seriously detrimental.
There appears to be consensus reporting that the CDC and the FDA identified that the Cyclospora outbreak originated in Mexico—iceberg lettuce sourced in central Mexico, and Taylor Farms de Mexico is the culprit. To which I’d say, to borrow a Joyce line in other contexts, “not so fast.”
I do not know the facts and neither do I have any expertise in public health. And I hope all the facts will be ascertained, if not already known, and revealed before further harm is caused. As I understand it, the matter of this microscopic parasite is complex—while federal guidance, even to physicians, is slow. Seems to me, this is complicated by the lack of trust in an administration that has no interest in a health system that works for the good of all; a government expert in deflecting its responsibility for care of the people, while placing blame on Immigrants and their places of origin.
I suppose the larger question is: where does this distrust (and its causes) leave us, and what are the ramifications for us, and the rest of civilization?
Thank you, Joyce, for giving us a safe space to think through, and ask questions, mostly of ourselves. I am honored to be here and I know I'm in good company.
As an “over 65”, I get the COVID boosters twice a year, and flu vax every fall. I used to trust NIH, FDA, and CDC.Now I no longer trust what we hear from our own federal government regarding health and safety issues. Can you recommend a few sources we Americans should turn to in order to get valid information about vaccines, their safety and efficacy, and scientifically generated advice as to illness and prevention (rather than politically generated propaganda)?
It concerns me greatly that many parents choose not to give newborns a Vitamin K shot. Do you see a way to make it mandatory or a non-negotiable, necessary part of the birth process? Why is it even subject to an approval process by parents who probably are ill informed, or are misinformed about the need for Vitamin K in the first days of life?
Thanks Linda. As a Mom of 4, I find it shocking that anyone given the information about why this is essential would chose not to get the shot for their newborn. It's tragic! We'll ask Vin what he thinks, I think it's unlikely we would see a law making it mandatory given current politics, even if the court would sign off.
This regards citizens united. I believe democrats receive more dark money than Republicans but Democrats are saying we need a constitutional amendment to end citizens united. Can you please explain and give guidence
Sorry, Maggy. I've no idea who you're listening to, but the darkest of money goes to the darkest of candidates. Democrats have no real reason to hide the identification of their donors -- indisputably bribable Republicans have every reason to obscure the source of their funding.
I was listening to you and Vance. What I really want to know is how to overturn it because does it require a constitutional amendment or I hear ethics. So I should have communicated with Joyce.
Well -- other than I cannot imagine how you got the message about the flow of Citizens United money to Democrats, lol, -- it shouldn't require a constitutional amendment. Unfortunately, true ethics is more about personal integrity than mandated self-restraint. To fix this (and several other recently surfaced horrendous SCOTUS decisions), specifically targeted amendments may be required.
Thank you Joyce and Dr. Gupta. My question concerns vaccine recommendations that are science-based and supported by real research. Now that many experts at the CDC have been fired, and research funding has been cut, how does the public get good information, and how is this affecting future Covid and general vaccine management here in the US in your opinion?
Insofar as Taylor Farms purchases this product from a farm(s) in Mexico, how does the original source fix the problem so future products are safe? In other words, is this a processing issue, issue in the field? I ask because I suspect the farm(s) is a major supplier and not replaced overnight.
Without wishing to make light of your question, Ms Hibbs -- what sort of explanations are you seeking? What causes them? What to do about them? How worried should the average American be worried about them?
Given the drastic politically motivated changes at the national CDC, what ever happened to the very reasonable attempt of several state departments of health banding together to give both evidence based vaccine recommendations, but also infectious disease updates, as new outbreaks occur of the latest bacteria, virus or other pathogen?
Can you help recommend how to access friendly, scientifically based CDC equivalents such as in Canada or Europe for weekly information ?
Also, Biofire’s syndromic trends is a good publicly available graphed daily info tally regarding respiratory pathogens (such as what %of pathogens might be attributed to COVID vs other contagions found in that week’s isolates), though represents hospital based patient data not necessarily applicable to community acquired illness; still informative.
When I was a child, I stood in line with just about every kid I knew to get the polio vaccine (via sugar cube - way better than injection!). Wasn't my choice -- I did it because my oldest cousin had actually contracted polio (a relatively mild case, as it turned out). But the adults in my family recognized intuitively that science works, and they climbed aboard the vaccination express for the duration of my childhood (measles, mumps, rubella, etc).
My question, Dr. Gupta, is how is it possible that 21st Century parents are blind to the benefits that were commonly known to far less educated (theoretically) parents in the 1950's?
Such a good question
Given the extreme politicization and loss of talent throughout all key federal agencies, how skeptical should we be of the Taylor Farms/lettuce conclusion???
While I share your skepticism, Amy, I'm reasonably confident in the CDC's initial 'diagnosis'.
The highlighted breakdown here should be the enormous footprint of a corporate operation the size of Taylor Farms. They aren't pitching heads of lettuce at farmers markets -- they're selling trainloads of processed produce at the wholesale level internationally. It's that very scale which makes the conclusion relatively easy to reach. (And bear in mind -- the initial contamination can impact a very, very small sample of the product.)
I understand the ease with which lettuce is contaminated as well as Taylor’s massive footprint. My skepticism stems from the ability of people to recall what they ate and when. Nearly everyone eats lettuce, especially via fast foods outlets. Blaming lettuce and Taylor just seems a bit too easy.
Iceberg lettuce, specifically.. which some of us would never eat but is cheap and used as filler in many restaurants and fast food outlets. There are those of us who don't eat fast food nor at restaurants in general. Taylor Farms is a massive operation and supplies institutions but also markets bagged pre-mixed salads for retailers (many mixes do not include iceberg lettuce).
Yes, which makes them an easy target because the incubation period is 2 to 24 days with the average being a week. Most people barely remember what they ate yesterday much less two weeks ago. And since lettuce is ubiquitous, most people will
say “sure” when asked if they’ve eaten it in the past two weeks. So, that’s my skepticism: Trump’s guys love to claim an easy victory. How do we trust their tracing?
They did it before... so maybe not a stretch, and also considering Taylor Farms has a history of other violations (if I have time will find links).
https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/13/health/cyclospora-outbreak-taylor-farms
Per the WSJ: The FDA on Sunday said it has yet to identify the presence of cyclospora on samples of lettuce from the company despite recent tests. The agency now deems the detection that it reported Saturday a false positive after laboratory experts reviewed the sample results.
This confirms my skepticism.
Sorry, 2-14 days!
It's ironic that Taylor Farms is being blamed, as last March 2025, they gave MAGA Inc. $1M USD less than a week after FDA postponed implementation of food traceability rules.
https://bsky.app/profile/matthewcort.land/post/3mqzwreuyik2n
Loyalty works only one way in Trump’s world.
The dismantling of government agencies that guard the health and well-being of the people of this country, and of the world, has proven seriously detrimental.
There appears to be consensus reporting that the CDC and the FDA identified that the Cyclospora outbreak originated in Mexico—iceberg lettuce sourced in central Mexico, and Taylor Farms de Mexico is the culprit. To which I’d say, to borrow a Joyce line in other contexts, “not so fast.”
I do not know the facts and neither do I have any expertise in public health. And I hope all the facts will be ascertained, if not already known, and revealed before further harm is caused. As I understand it, the matter of this microscopic parasite is complex—while federal guidance, even to physicians, is slow. Seems to me, this is complicated by the lack of trust in an administration that has no interest in a health system that works for the good of all; a government expert in deflecting its responsibility for care of the people, while placing blame on Immigrants and their places of origin.
I suppose the larger question is: where does this distrust (and its causes) leave us, and what are the ramifications for us, and the rest of civilization?
That's an excellent question.
Thank you, Joyce, for giving us a safe space to think through, and ask questions, mostly of ourselves. I am honored to be here and I know I'm in good company.
As an “over 65”, I get the COVID boosters twice a year, and flu vax every fall. I used to trust NIH, FDA, and CDC.Now I no longer trust what we hear from our own federal government regarding health and safety issues. Can you recommend a few sources we Americans should turn to in order to get valid information about vaccines, their safety and efficacy, and scientifically generated advice as to illness and prevention (rather than politically generated propaganda)?
Thank you Joyce. My question(s) for Dr. Gupta:
It concerns me greatly that many parents choose not to give newborns a Vitamin K shot. Do you see a way to make it mandatory or a non-negotiable, necessary part of the birth process? Why is it even subject to an approval process by parents who probably are ill informed, or are misinformed about the need for Vitamin K in the first days of life?
Thanks Linda. As a Mom of 4, I find it shocking that anyone given the information about why this is essential would chose not to get the shot for their newborn. It's tragic! We'll ask Vin what he thinks, I think it's unlikely we would see a law making it mandatory given current politics, even if the court would sign off.
thank you for the helpfully optimistic guidance you provide, Professor White
Do you have a professional opinion on the health status of Senator McConnell?
Is there a way to listen later than the posted time?
Yes, you'll get a video of our conversation sent to you later in the day.
This regards citizens united. I believe democrats receive more dark money than Republicans but Democrats are saying we need a constitutional amendment to end citizens united. Can you please explain and give guidence
Sorry, Maggy. I've no idea who you're listening to, but the darkest of money goes to the darkest of candidates. Democrats have no real reason to hide the identification of their donors -- indisputably bribable Republicans have every reason to obscure the source of their funding.
I was listening to you and Vance. What I really want to know is how to overturn it because does it require a constitutional amendment or I hear ethics. So I should have communicated with Joyce.
Well -- other than I cannot imagine how you got the message about the flow of Citizens United money to Democrats, lol, -- it shouldn't require a constitutional amendment. Unfortunately, true ethics is more about personal integrity than mandated self-restraint. To fix this (and several other recently surfaced horrendous SCOTUS decisions), specifically targeted amendments may be required.
Thank you Joyce and Dr. Gupta. My question concerns vaccine recommendations that are science-based and supported by real research. Now that many experts at the CDC have been fired, and research funding has been cut, how does the public get good information, and how is this affecting future Covid and general vaccine management here in the US in your opinion?
Insofar as Taylor Farms purchases this product from a farm(s) in Mexico, how does the original source fix the problem so future products are safe? In other words, is this a processing issue, issue in the field? I ask because I suspect the farm(s) is a major supplier and not replaced overnight.
Thank you, Professor. Perhaps Dr. Gupta will can explain Ebola and coronavirus.
Without wishing to make light of your question, Ms Hibbs -- what sort of explanations are you seeking? What causes them? What to do about them? How worried should the average American be worried about them?
Dr. Gupta always presents important public health information for us all
Can’t find live ???
Given the drastic politically motivated changes at the national CDC, what ever happened to the very reasonable attempt of several state departments of health banding together to give both evidence based vaccine recommendations, but also infectious disease updates, as new outbreaks occur of the latest bacteria, virus or other pathogen?
Can you help recommend how to access friendly, scientifically based CDC equivalents such as in Canada or Europe for weekly information ?
Also, Biofire’s syndromic trends is a good publicly available graphed daily info tally regarding respiratory pathogens (such as what %of pathogens might be attributed to COVID vs other contagions found in that week’s isolates), though represents hospital based patient data not necessarily applicable to community acquired illness; still informative.