It begins at EST. On topic, I thought I would cross-pollinate and put my 2 cents down but I'm much more pessimistic than most. I see something in the Tarot cards.
You Know Something is Happening Here But You Don't Know What it is, Do You, Mr. Jones
The title is taken from an old Bob Dylan song. And it reflects the protests taking place mostly on college campuses that have spread across the nation in reaction to the massive slaughter of Arabs in Gaza by the Israeli army.
The world has reacted in a very predictable fashion. First Hamas invades Israel and slaughters 1,200 people while taking a large quantity of prisoners. The bombardment ensues killing tens of thousands. The brutal brilliance of Hamas leadership correctly predicted what is now taking place on the world stage, making Israel an international pariah. They were and are willing to sacrifice their own as collateral damage to further the cause of a Palestinian statehood. One might extrapolate that this extreme is a reaction to countless decades of what has amounted to ethnic cleansing by migrants from other lands who were themselves ethnically cleansed. It’s a vicious cycle of historic human behavior that can be found anywhere humans have migrated including the Americas.
Events have fostered a new anti-war movement unseen since the Vietnam War period. From the Berkeley Free Speech Movement which spread east across the nation now has its modern corollary at Columbia University which has spread west and south.
This social movement will not end until major issues are resolved in the Middle East and there is no prospect for this happening under the current regime in Israel. And because 2024 is an election year, there will no doubt be massive protests on the streets of Chicago during the democratic convention. Have we been here before? Yes we have. In 1968, the culmination of the growing anti-war movement took its greatest manifestation on the streets which turned into riots and abusive police response. It tore apart any meaningful messaging democratic leadership attempted under LBJ, whose leadership the war was blamed. Ironically, Lyndon Johnson was the most progressive president in the latter half of the 20th century but by 1968, he was cornered by his own post WWII anti communist mentality. The times had changed and he suffered the consequences with a withdrawal of candidacy and a defeat at the polls which ushered in a corrupt administration under Nixon.
There is no comparing Nixon to Donald Trump. As unlikable and ultimately paranoid as Nixon became, Trump is a deal breaker of immense proportion. He will destroy whatever remains good in this nation. Everything negative has already been said of this monster. His behavior is explained when in the 1970s and early 1980s, his mentor, Roy Cohen, coached Trump to never admit guilt; to never admit defeat and to always counter attack all charges. This epitomizes Trump today.
Is this Deja vu all over again? I think there is a growing chance that massive protests will break out on the streets of Chicago. Joe Biden is being rightfully cast as the ‘Mr. Jones’ of this commentary for not reading the tea leaves and for giving Israel any armaments it requests to continue the slaughter of innocent people who only have wanted a place to live unhindered.
I was 15 years old in 1968 and even as a young person, I ruminated why the anti-war movement was destroying the very political party that contributed so much to civil rights legislation and related causes. Is Joe Biden our modern Lyndon Baines Johnson? Perhaps you should ask yourself this question.
I was also 15 in 1968, and I agree with almost everything you have to say. The major difference is that while LBJ and then Humphrey, ultimately, had had to confront Nixon — a capable, smart, focused and hard working, if deeply flawed man — Biden needs to compete with Trump, a sociopath, and hence unpredictable. Biden MUST find a way to put an end to the Israeli/Hamas conflict and keep the university students from handing the WH to Trump.
Frankly, I think the student protesters believe it is the same as 1968, but it’s not. America has no control over the sovereign nation of Israel. Although the protesters seem to believe it does. On 9/11 after a terrorist attack, America fought back, although much of the retaliation was misplaced. I’ve offered this question up before: why is the world on the side of Hamas? Why is there no demand on Hamas to ceasefire and release the hostages? Many of the protesters, some even Jewish, are demanding the destruction of Israel. They have also now substituted the word “zionist” for “jew”. I’m very fearful for all the Jewish people in the world. We’ve been here before. I think I’m rambling, but I truly am terrified.
I am absolutely not on the side of Hamas. Not even a little. They are an evil terrorist group. And I believe Israel absolutely has a right to exist and live in peace - but it does not a right to extinguish another people. There is a line between defending Israel and aggressive genocide. Right wing governments everywhere are awful - including the current Israeli government -- that is not an antisemitic view but a political view. I can't bear the right wing in the United States or Hungary or Brazil or anywhere.
The control that the US has over Israel is aid. Stop sending weapons and bombs. They are being misused. And I disagree that the protestors are anti-Jewish. They are anti-genocide.
I remember 1968 very well, too, and I was older than 15. If the Israeli conflict doesn't stop, US will be dragged in, so don't think it's so different from Viet Nam.
But Marsha, the idea that Hamas killed, raped, burned, and kidnapped people has almost been invisible! No one is really talking about those atrocities anymore. Yes, I hate what Netanyahu has done to the Gazans. They have been caught in the middle of this crisis. But what about HAMAS??
I realize Hamas is evil and started the war. However, the proportions are way off. Israel has been destroying Gaza in retaliation for almost 7 months. It has to stop. The US needs to use its influence for more than talking.
Seems to me the first step is to stop the bombing, free the hostages and give shelter, food, water and medical care to the remaining Gazans. Clear it out, it's been reduced to rubble. Figure out who is going to live where. Figure out how to share the places both cultures deem sacred. How can it work any other way?
If your knowledge of the Israel/Palestine situation only goes back to, say, the 2000s, you're missing a few things. And if "no one is really talking" about what happened on October 7 (which isn't the case where I live, even among those calling for a ceasefire), it's because the massacre of October 7 has been dwarfed by Israel's response to it. What we've got here is, on one level, two intensely patriarchal systems going at each other with the usual result: widespread death and destruction that falls heaviest on women and children.
Marsha, please visit our State Department website, military affairs section. You can read our 14 agreements with Israel since 1953 (4 are military aid agreements in the case of Israel being attacked). Those are the reasons we send weapons and bombs and indeed, they are being misused. Biden is doing everything in his power to create a two state resolution with a separate Palestine. He has stated that the US will only accept this solution, with Israel and Hamas having zero role or presence in the newly formed Palestine. So far as 'why' was Hamas allowed on the ballot in January 2006? The parameters were that no party could be terrorist with weapons. George Bush Jr. and Connie Rice failed to vet Hamas. Everyone else knew they were terrorists: they showed up at the UN monitored polls with guns to threaten voters. The election was invalid from the get-go, but Bush allowed it to stand. After all: his own election in 2000 should have had an asterisk next to it. That election (Bush v. Gore, 2000) was the first overt act of politicization of SCOTUS btw. Sandra Day O'Connor was the designated swing vote and she knew it. She later said she regretted it. But on November 5 we can make major corrections with re-electing Joe Biden with a blue bicameral congress. I'm hoping I am adding to your understanding of 'why' the aid to Israel: it's the result of agreements written over-time, from 1953 forward, with Republicans at the helm. Follow the money.
We have 14 agreements and 4 treaties with Israel: most of them formed during Republican administrations. Until we can get a blue bi-cameral congress with Biden as president, we will not be able to reverse the treaties. Netanyahu, Putin and Trump are the three headed snake who know this and are behind the disruption. All of the treaties are on the State Department website, under military affairs. The majority (if not all) were written during Republican administrations. When Hamas came to power in January 2006, Bush Jr. was president. The parameters for the election (the only one Palestine has ever had), were that no terrorist organization having weapons could be on the ballot. Hamas was a known weaponized terrorist organization: so this begs the question: where were Junior and Connie during the run-up to the election? How could they have allowed this? Why are they quiet now?? Hamas terrorized Palestinian voters at the polls, even when UN observers were present. There was no Hamas majority vote, but they made it so. Fair warning: we have an election coming and threats abound. Every one of us needs to work in every way we can to re-elect Joe Biden - and a blue bicameral congress. 💙
The protestors are anti-Jewish. Words (and history) matter. I have no problem with demonstrators naming Israel and its current government, but using the words "Jew" or "Jewish" is unacceptable. Anti-Hamas demonstrators are not using the word "Muslim" as they describe and denounce the Oct 7th perpetrators; they are not denigrating all Muslims for the actions of a terrorist group. I graduated from the U of Wisconsin in 1968. I was there and active (most of us on campus were and I'm proud of it). We protested against government action, NOT against a particular race or religion. As I said above: Words matter. I have been against Netanyahu and the Israeli right-wing for decades. I am a secular American Jew. I feel the massively increased anti-semitism around me for the first time in my life. If the demonstrators are not anti-Jewish, then they're mighty naive. History is very real for all of us Jews.
Many see the Hamas action as a "justified" response to the brutality of the Israeli regime. Of course it is not, terrorism is never justified. But Israel has been unchecked and cruel itself, and many, including me, see the brutality of the response in Gaza as the culmination of Jewish terrorism.
Both sides are at fault, but we expect more of Israel. And Netanyahus provocation by attacking iran was so clearly another push on Biden not to stop arming Israel, the only tool we have to check him.
Hi Jen, Netanyahu's provocation by attacking Iran was to increase disruption by the three headed snake. Biden has no control over 'stopping arming Israel.' We have 14 congress approved agreements (since 1953), with four of them involving defense. Biden cannot ask for a change from those by himself: we need a blue bicameral congress to do so. Netanyahu, Trump and Putin are working in concert as the three headed snake to cause disruption in an attempt to defeat Biden. We cannot allow that to happen. Please do not feel terrified: there are more of us in sanity than there are of them. 💙
The world isn't "on the side of Hamas." You seem to have fallen into the trap of assuming that any criticism of Israel is "supporting Hamas." At the same time, Hamas (and Hezbollah, etc.) didn't come out of nowhere. And as to "America has no control over the sovereign nation of Israel" -- where do you think most of the arms are coming from? Have you noticed how AIPAC is targeting progressive members of Congress because they criticize Israeli policy?
Israel is commonly called a democracy, but is it really? By the Law of Return, any Jew anywhere in the world can become an Israeli citizen. Muslim and Christian Palestinians whose families may have been in Palestine for generations usually can't. Palestinian villages have been destroyed to make room for Jewish settlements that are illegal under international law.
You might want to inform yourself about what's actually happening in Israel. +972 Magazine, an online newsjournal put out by Israelis and Palestinians in Israel, is a good place to start, but there are others. https://www.972mag.com/
I graduated from high school in 1968 and was at the University of Michigan from 1968 - 72. It was the time when young men were waiting to find out what their lottery number was or, if affluent enough, finding doctors to write them up with reasons they couldn't be drafted or - of course - leaving for Canada. I started college in 1968 as a suburban Detroit girl with a matchy-matchy kilt and sweater and ended my years there with the typical waist-long hair and handmade Indian print floor length dresses. It was my political awakening - for the first time in my sheltered life I became aware of what was really going on. These protests are so reminiscent of that time. No war is good war and Hamas is evil - but so is the genecide in Gaza and at such an elevated scale. Heart breaking and infuriating.
Biden was on Howard Stern in the last 48 hours. Howard has requested Maga to not listen to his show. Hillary refused Howards interview request last time. Who knows what would have happened. One cannot deny the influence of the King of all Media.
Stern battled the FCC for years and is still totally onboard for saving democracy. Also exposing the lunitic fringe GOP stacked Supreme court.
I think Netanyahu knew he'd benefit from an attack by Hamas. Hell, some say he knew it was coming. Perhaps he miscalculated how horrific it would be, tyrants are often stupid. But make no mistake, the right in Israel caused this war.
I have been thinking for weeks of the deja vu quality of the protests on college campuses. We've been here before, and deploying the National Guard didn't work out too well in the past.
I'm sorry. I have a need to stay on topic. It's my nature. I apology if everyone wants to party tonight. The house is burning but the party lights are up.
(Here is a satire from my book. It's appropriate for the evening.)
The New Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics
(An exchange between the Registrar of the New Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics and a prospective Saudi graduate student)
“Registrar's Office of the new Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics, may I help you?"
"I'm interested in your course schedule for the new semester. I understand you also offer master’s and Ph.D. programs.”
"Are you an American citizen by birth?"
"What difference should that make?"
“Because these student spots are in demand and foreign students get confused when they begin their core studies on American sleaze, government dysfunction, and the need to use money for its intended purpose: to fully corrupt freshmen congressmen and senators. We even have a street here in town that facilitates this corruption, K Street. Foreign students become confused and usually drop out before graduation.”
"We seek motivated students who will fully participate in the American system of immoral and unethical behavior. And we now have internship programs at the executive level in the White House where they will get hands-on experience.”
"Have you corrupted or otherwise seduced anyone in government yet? Have you filed for bankruptcy? Have you swindled anyone lately? Those are the criteria we use in determining which promising students to accept."
"I'm a Saudi citizen."
"Oh terrific! We understand you people are decapitation specialists. Would you be interested in our work/study program at the White House?”
Bill, please visit the State Department website, military affairs section to find the 14 US Israeli agreements we have signed since 1953. Three specifically require the US to give military aid to Israel in the event of an attack, as a non-NATO member. These were all written by Republican administrations. Joe Biden is not able to abrogate these agreements - but he has laid down the law to Netanyahu (one of the three members of the Netanyahu, Putin, Trump snake). It will take a Biden re-election, and blue bicameral congress to change these agreements. That's what we need. So you may wish to correct your statement that "Joe Biden is being rightfully cast as the ‘Mr. Jones’ of this commentary for not reading the tea leaves and for giving Israel any armaments it requests to continue the slaughter of innocent people who only have wanted a place to live unhindered." Biden's hands are tied. And, btw, Bush Junior was president when Hamas came to power. The parameters of the 2006 Palestinian election were that no group having weapons and a terrorist identity could be on the ballot. Bush and his then-Secretary of State, Condeleeza Rice, failed to vet Hamas and keep them off the ballot. Hamas was intimidating voters at UN monitored election sites: there was no 'majority Hamas' citizenry. Instead of speaking up, acknowledging, and defending Biden in this mess, Bush Jr. and Connie are quiet. The least we at Civil Discourse can do is to write factually: Biden cannot abrogate the agreements to give weapons and support to Israel. He has sent Blinken to Israel 7 times since October 7, 2023. And he went to OPEC in SF in October 2023 to meet with the foreign minister of Israel, delivering the same message each time: "the only resolution acceptable to the US is a two state solution, with Palestine existing as a separate state in which Israel and Hamas will not be present. And Israel is to stop the killing of innocent civilians." Israel has ignored this message: knowing Biden has to abide by pre-existing agreements. That can and will change November 5. In the meantime, let's not put forth wrong statements that make it sound like Biden chooses to give Israel weapons. He has no choice. The minute he abrogated a single written agreement, the Republicans aka MAGA whose orange leader has not informed himself of any one of the agreements, would go berserk.
Hi Bill, Just one correction: Hamas leadership did not think they would establish a two party state that they would be any part of when they invaded Israel. Biden and Blinken's have made that clear during Biden's visit to Israel and Bliken's message to Israel's foreign minister at APEC, October 2023. Biden has made that clear from the get-go of his administration: he favors a two party state, and neither Israel nor Hamas will be part of the Palestine state. Blinken has also made five trips to the mideast since the October 2023 Hamas invasion. The majority Palestine people did not want Hamas: they were threatened at the polls in January 2006, when Hamas was allowed to be on the ballot. George Bush Jr. was president and Condoleezza Rice was SOS: they failed to vet Hamas. No terrorist groups with weapons were to be allowed to run and they were allowed to go on the ballot. When the election came about, Palestinians who showed up at ballot stations were forced to vote for Hamas or ballots were changed: They were frightened to do otherwise. And this was with a UN presence. From that point forward, Hamas ran the show with disruption, force and terror. Biden has also laid down the law to Netanyahu, the third head of the three headed snake. Netanyahu is hoping to cause enough disruption to keep Biden from being re-elected, and if he can create enough chaos including causing death of innocent civilians to get Trump elected, he, snake head no. 2 Putin, and snake head no. 3 Trump will take over the region. And Trump wants to be dictator here. We will re-elect Biden, Trump will be finished and so will the other two snake heads. My tarot card reading. All of these agreements can be found on the State Department website, military affairs section. Biden's hands are tied with aid to Israel until he is re-elected and we have a bicameral congress. Not oddly at all that Junior and Connie have not spoken up and acknowledged their hand in this mess, created because *they* did not vet Hamas. They allowed this.
Here is something from 7 years ago that rings even truer today:
From Facebook: JUST THINK:
What does white male privilege look like in this country? Imagine this scenario: Hillary Clinton is president. It's learned that she has deep ties to Putin. She puts utterly unqualified billionaires in cabinet posts. She puts her daughter Chelsea in a position of influence in the West Wing. And Chelsea's husband is her chief advisor. She refuses to release any tax returns, she blocks access to the visitor logs in the White House and Bill refuses to live in the White House so our tax dollars are spent keeping him safe in Chappaqua. And Hillary spends almost every weekend lounging in a resort. AND, in an interview, she names the wrong country she bombed while bragging about the chocolate cake she was eating while she ordered said bombing. I could go on and on. The point is that the outrage, the outcries, the screaming by Republicans would be heard around the world and impeachment proceedings would already be underway.
By the way, this is not about political party affiliation at all. Let's face it, if Hillary--or any woman candidate--had five children from three husbands she would never have survived the primary.
You're not wrong by any means, but being a man would have only lessened the backlash by a few degrees... Now, I've seen it written down that DJT never said he ran as a GOP Candidate because the Dems would have rejected him outright isn't fact... That may be true, I can neither confirm or deny it, but it is absolutely realistic... In days gone by that would have also been true in the GOP... However as the GOP has seen that their numbers were greatly diminishing they became less picky about who and more concerned with who could they get to engage the old GOP who had lost interest... Many of the ones brought out by DJT were the ones who wouldn't bother voting because the GOP ran too close to center for their tastes... DJT changed that and they did come out in droves...
Guess I’m the eternal optimist. With all the evidence out there, I can’t see how trump can win, unless the fake electors idea catches on. If it does, I’ll join The Sisters on the ledge.
If they do, the DOJ has had years of practice now plus there'll be time to finish trump's current trials and to start any new ones he racks up. That's a really nice thought.
I find it funny-interesting that TFG compares himself to Al Capone, claiming he’s been indicted more times - yep, 3 more times. What he fails to realize is that “the great” ( according to TFG) Capone was convicted and sentenced to 11 years in federal prison, and eventually died from syphilis-related illness. What a comparison. We should be so lucky!
Any man or women that votes MAGA, supports the child molesters rights to rape any underage girl and force her to bear the rapists baby. That should overide any worries about a man with integrity that has spend a lifetime overcoming small stuttering issures and being a decent human being.
I couldn't agree more! The fact they are tied says way too much about the failings of the American populace. That millions want the rapist and Republicans see self opportunities.
You see it. The GOP needs to be renamed.It is not a democratic party anymore. The reasons are many. The right wing extremists...Koch..Mellon...Coors....Devos...etc have been working on this for decades.........It is imperative the President Biden be re-elected.........the upcoming months are critical for the future of America.
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
Because you can't recall them. And Republicans won't impeach them. That is why the court must be expanded which Biden doesn't want to do. One of several blind spots out of his past which is destroying America as a democracy.
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
Have loved your commentary on TV these past couple of weeks--a sane and knowledgeable voice. It is good to have a night off and just relax and laugh at the annual dinner.
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
My son was there tonight playing with the Marine band! Hope you had a wonderful time!
It begins at EST. On topic, I thought I would cross-pollinate and put my 2 cents down but I'm much more pessimistic than most. I see something in the Tarot cards.
You Know Something is Happening Here But You Don't Know What it is, Do You, Mr. Jones
The title is taken from an old Bob Dylan song. And it reflects the protests taking place mostly on college campuses that have spread across the nation in reaction to the massive slaughter of Arabs in Gaza by the Israeli army.
The world has reacted in a very predictable fashion. First Hamas invades Israel and slaughters 1,200 people while taking a large quantity of prisoners. The bombardment ensues killing tens of thousands. The brutal brilliance of Hamas leadership correctly predicted what is now taking place on the world stage, making Israel an international pariah. They were and are willing to sacrifice their own as collateral damage to further the cause of a Palestinian statehood. One might extrapolate that this extreme is a reaction to countless decades of what has amounted to ethnic cleansing by migrants from other lands who were themselves ethnically cleansed. It’s a vicious cycle of historic human behavior that can be found anywhere humans have migrated including the Americas.
Events have fostered a new anti-war movement unseen since the Vietnam War period. From the Berkeley Free Speech Movement which spread east across the nation now has its modern corollary at Columbia University which has spread west and south.
This social movement will not end until major issues are resolved in the Middle East and there is no prospect for this happening under the current regime in Israel. And because 2024 is an election year, there will no doubt be massive protests on the streets of Chicago during the democratic convention. Have we been here before? Yes we have. In 1968, the culmination of the growing anti-war movement took its greatest manifestation on the streets which turned into riots and abusive police response. It tore apart any meaningful messaging democratic leadership attempted under LBJ, whose leadership the war was blamed. Ironically, Lyndon Johnson was the most progressive president in the latter half of the 20th century but by 1968, he was cornered by his own post WWII anti communist mentality. The times had changed and he suffered the consequences with a withdrawal of candidacy and a defeat at the polls which ushered in a corrupt administration under Nixon.
There is no comparing Nixon to Donald Trump. As unlikable and ultimately paranoid as Nixon became, Trump is a deal breaker of immense proportion. He will destroy whatever remains good in this nation. Everything negative has already been said of this monster. His behavior is explained when in the 1970s and early 1980s, his mentor, Roy Cohen, coached Trump to never admit guilt; to never admit defeat and to always counter attack all charges. This epitomizes Trump today.
Is this Deja vu all over again? I think there is a growing chance that massive protests will break out on the streets of Chicago. Joe Biden is being rightfully cast as the ‘Mr. Jones’ of this commentary for not reading the tea leaves and for giving Israel any armaments it requests to continue the slaughter of innocent people who only have wanted a place to live unhindered.
I was 15 years old in 1968 and even as a young person, I ruminated why the anti-war movement was destroying the very political party that contributed so much to civil rights legislation and related causes. Is Joe Biden our modern Lyndon Baines Johnson? Perhaps you should ask yourself this question.
I was also 15 in 1968, and I agree with almost everything you have to say. The major difference is that while LBJ and then Humphrey, ultimately, had had to confront Nixon — a capable, smart, focused and hard working, if deeply flawed man — Biden needs to compete with Trump, a sociopath, and hence unpredictable. Biden MUST find a way to put an end to the Israeli/Hamas conflict and keep the university students from handing the WH to Trump.
Frankly, I think the student protesters believe it is the same as 1968, but it’s not. America has no control over the sovereign nation of Israel. Although the protesters seem to believe it does. On 9/11 after a terrorist attack, America fought back, although much of the retaliation was misplaced. I’ve offered this question up before: why is the world on the side of Hamas? Why is there no demand on Hamas to ceasefire and release the hostages? Many of the protesters, some even Jewish, are demanding the destruction of Israel. They have also now substituted the word “zionist” for “jew”. I’m very fearful for all the Jewish people in the world. We’ve been here before. I think I’m rambling, but I truly am terrified.
I am absolutely not on the side of Hamas. Not even a little. They are an evil terrorist group. And I believe Israel absolutely has a right to exist and live in peace - but it does not a right to extinguish another people. There is a line between defending Israel and aggressive genocide. Right wing governments everywhere are awful - including the current Israeli government -- that is not an antisemitic view but a political view. I can't bear the right wing in the United States or Hungary or Brazil or anywhere.
Spot on Laurie.
I agree. On 1`0/7, i said Israel was going to grind the Palestinians into dust.
The control that the US has over Israel is aid. Stop sending weapons and bombs. They are being misused. And I disagree that the protestors are anti-Jewish. They are anti-genocide.
I remember 1968 very well, too, and I was older than 15. If the Israeli conflict doesn't stop, US will be dragged in, so don't think it's so different from Viet Nam.
But Marsha, the idea that Hamas killed, raped, burned, and kidnapped people has almost been invisible! No one is really talking about those atrocities anymore. Yes, I hate what Netanyahu has done to the Gazans. They have been caught in the middle of this crisis. But what about HAMAS??
I realize Hamas is evil and started the war. However, the proportions are way off. Israel has been destroying Gaza in retaliation for almost 7 months. It has to stop. The US needs to use its influence for more than talking.
Seems to me the first step is to stop the bombing, free the hostages and give shelter, food, water and medical care to the remaining Gazans. Clear it out, it's been reduced to rubble. Figure out who is going to live where. Figure out how to share the places both cultures deem sacred. How can it work any other way?
If your knowledge of the Israel/Palestine situation only goes back to, say, the 2000s, you're missing a few things. And if "no one is really talking" about what happened on October 7 (which isn't the case where I live, even among those calling for a ceasefire), it's because the massacre of October 7 has been dwarfed by Israel's response to it. What we've got here is, on one level, two intensely patriarchal systems going at each other with the usual result: widespread death and destruction that falls heaviest on women and children.
Both sides have a stake in perpetuating this. And Israel should know better.
Marsha, please visit our State Department website, military affairs section. You can read our 14 agreements with Israel since 1953 (4 are military aid agreements in the case of Israel being attacked). Those are the reasons we send weapons and bombs and indeed, they are being misused. Biden is doing everything in his power to create a two state resolution with a separate Palestine. He has stated that the US will only accept this solution, with Israel and Hamas having zero role or presence in the newly formed Palestine. So far as 'why' was Hamas allowed on the ballot in January 2006? The parameters were that no party could be terrorist with weapons. George Bush Jr. and Connie Rice failed to vet Hamas. Everyone else knew they were terrorists: they showed up at the UN monitored polls with guns to threaten voters. The election was invalid from the get-go, but Bush allowed it to stand. After all: his own election in 2000 should have had an asterisk next to it. That election (Bush v. Gore, 2000) was the first overt act of politicization of SCOTUS btw. Sandra Day O'Connor was the designated swing vote and she knew it. She later said she regretted it. But on November 5 we can make major corrections with re-electing Joe Biden with a blue bicameral congress. I'm hoping I am adding to your understanding of 'why' the aid to Israel: it's the result of agreements written over-time, from 1953 forward, with Republicans at the helm. Follow the money.
We have 14 agreements and 4 treaties with Israel: most of them formed during Republican administrations. Until we can get a blue bi-cameral congress with Biden as president, we will not be able to reverse the treaties. Netanyahu, Putin and Trump are the three headed snake who know this and are behind the disruption. All of the treaties are on the State Department website, under military affairs. The majority (if not all) were written during Republican administrations. When Hamas came to power in January 2006, Bush Jr. was president. The parameters for the election (the only one Palestine has ever had), were that no terrorist organization having weapons could be on the ballot. Hamas was a known weaponized terrorist organization: so this begs the question: where were Junior and Connie during the run-up to the election? How could they have allowed this? Why are they quiet now?? Hamas terrorized Palestinian voters at the polls, even when UN observers were present. There was no Hamas majority vote, but they made it so. Fair warning: we have an election coming and threats abound. Every one of us needs to work in every way we can to re-elect Joe Biden - and a blue bicameral congress. 💙
The protestors are anti-Jewish. Words (and history) matter. I have no problem with demonstrators naming Israel and its current government, but using the words "Jew" or "Jewish" is unacceptable. Anti-Hamas demonstrators are not using the word "Muslim" as they describe and denounce the Oct 7th perpetrators; they are not denigrating all Muslims for the actions of a terrorist group. I graduated from the U of Wisconsin in 1968. I was there and active (most of us on campus were and I'm proud of it). We protested against government action, NOT against a particular race or religion. As I said above: Words matter. I have been against Netanyahu and the Israeli right-wing for decades. I am a secular American Jew. I feel the massively increased anti-semitism around me for the first time in my life. If the demonstrators are not anti-Jewish, then they're mighty naive. History is very real for all of us Jews.
Many see the Hamas action as a "justified" response to the brutality of the Israeli regime. Of course it is not, terrorism is never justified. But Israel has been unchecked and cruel itself, and many, including me, see the brutality of the response in Gaza as the culmination of Jewish terrorism.
Both sides are at fault, but we expect more of Israel. And Netanyahus provocation by attacking iran was so clearly another push on Biden not to stop arming Israel, the only tool we have to check him.
I too am terrified.
Hi Jen, Netanyahu's provocation by attacking Iran was to increase disruption by the three headed snake. Biden has no control over 'stopping arming Israel.' We have 14 congress approved agreements (since 1953), with four of them involving defense. Biden cannot ask for a change from those by himself: we need a blue bicameral congress to do so. Netanyahu, Trump and Putin are working in concert as the three headed snake to cause disruption in an attempt to defeat Biden. We cannot allow that to happen. Please do not feel terrified: there are more of us in sanity than there are of them. 💙
V
The world isn't "on the side of Hamas." You seem to have fallen into the trap of assuming that any criticism of Israel is "supporting Hamas." At the same time, Hamas (and Hezbollah, etc.) didn't come out of nowhere. And as to "America has no control over the sovereign nation of Israel" -- where do you think most of the arms are coming from? Have you noticed how AIPAC is targeting progressive members of Congress because they criticize Israeli policy?
Israel is commonly called a democracy, but is it really? By the Law of Return, any Jew anywhere in the world can become an Israeli citizen. Muslim and Christian Palestinians whose families may have been in Palestine for generations usually can't. Palestinian villages have been destroyed to make room for Jewish settlements that are illegal under international law.
You might want to inform yourself about what's actually happening in Israel. +972 Magazine, an online newsjournal put out by Israelis and Palestinians in Israel, is a good place to start, but there are others. https://www.972mag.com/
I second that one, Bill. Happy 71. How the hell did we get here so soon?
Not a clue how it happened…..
I graduated from high school in 1968 and was at the University of Michigan from 1968 - 72. It was the time when young men were waiting to find out what their lottery number was or, if affluent enough, finding doctors to write them up with reasons they couldn't be drafted or - of course - leaving for Canada. I started college in 1968 as a suburban Detroit girl with a matchy-matchy kilt and sweater and ended my years there with the typical waist-long hair and handmade Indian print floor length dresses. It was my political awakening - for the first time in my sheltered life I became aware of what was really going on. These protests are so reminiscent of that time. No war is good war and Hamas is evil - but so is the genecide in Gaza and at such an elevated scale. Heart breaking and infuriating.
Biden was on Howard Stern in the last 48 hours. Howard has requested Maga to not listen to his show. Hillary refused Howards interview request last time. Who knows what would have happened. One cannot deny the influence of the King of all Media.
Stern battled the FCC for years and is still totally onboard for saving democracy. Also exposing the lunitic fringe GOP stacked Supreme court.
You betcha.
Netanyahu fell for the TRAP hook line and sinker‼️
You know it’s all a Russian strategy to take voters away from Joe and for Fuherer Trumph to bellow; if I vas fuherer dis vould haff never happened ‼️
Ja, du hast Recht!
I think Netanyahu knew he'd benefit from an attack by Hamas. Hell, some say he knew it was coming. Perhaps he miscalculated how horrific it would be, tyrants are often stupid. But make no mistake, the right in Israel caused this war.
I have been thinking for weeks of the deja vu quality of the protests on college campuses. We've been here before, and deploying the National Guard didn't work out too well in the past.
Only positive outcome for Kent State massacre was the song, “Ohio” by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young.
I'm sorry. I have a need to stay on topic. It's my nature. I apology if everyone wants to party tonight. The house is burning but the party lights are up.
Washington fiddles while Washington burns.
You betcha.
(Here is a satire from my book. It's appropriate for the evening.)
The New Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics
(An exchange between the Registrar of the New Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics and a prospective Saudi graduate student)
“Registrar's Office of the new Washington Graduate School of Disgusting American Politics, may I help you?"
"I'm interested in your course schedule for the new semester. I understand you also offer master’s and Ph.D. programs.”
"Are you an American citizen by birth?"
"What difference should that make?"
“Because these student spots are in demand and foreign students get confused when they begin their core studies on American sleaze, government dysfunction, and the need to use money for its intended purpose: to fully corrupt freshmen congressmen and senators. We even have a street here in town that facilitates this corruption, K Street. Foreign students become confused and usually drop out before graduation.”
"We seek motivated students who will fully participate in the American system of immoral and unethical behavior. And we now have internship programs at the executive level in the White House where they will get hands-on experience.”
"Have you corrupted or otherwise seduced anyone in government yet? Have you filed for bankruptcy? Have you swindled anyone lately? Those are the criteria we use in determining which promising students to accept."
"I'm a Saudi citizen."
"Oh terrific! We understand you people are decapitation specialists. Would you be interested in our work/study program at the White House?”
Although the world looks foggy and grey, there is still, right and wrong. Follow your heart. And fight for what is there.
Did you watch the dinner? It was hardly a party. The most somber I remember seeing.
Fiddles? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LukyMYp2noo
I worry this is Deja vu again also Bill Katz. And that Biden will pay in the election too just like LBJ did. Hope we are wrong
Bill, please visit the State Department website, military affairs section to find the 14 US Israeli agreements we have signed since 1953. Three specifically require the US to give military aid to Israel in the event of an attack, as a non-NATO member. These were all written by Republican administrations. Joe Biden is not able to abrogate these agreements - but he has laid down the law to Netanyahu (one of the three members of the Netanyahu, Putin, Trump snake). It will take a Biden re-election, and blue bicameral congress to change these agreements. That's what we need. So you may wish to correct your statement that "Joe Biden is being rightfully cast as the ‘Mr. Jones’ of this commentary for not reading the tea leaves and for giving Israel any armaments it requests to continue the slaughter of innocent people who only have wanted a place to live unhindered." Biden's hands are tied. And, btw, Bush Junior was president when Hamas came to power. The parameters of the 2006 Palestinian election were that no group having weapons and a terrorist identity could be on the ballot. Bush and his then-Secretary of State, Condeleeza Rice, failed to vet Hamas and keep them off the ballot. Hamas was intimidating voters at UN monitored election sites: there was no 'majority Hamas' citizenry. Instead of speaking up, acknowledging, and defending Biden in this mess, Bush Jr. and Connie are quiet. The least we at Civil Discourse can do is to write factually: Biden cannot abrogate the agreements to give weapons and support to Israel. He has sent Blinken to Israel 7 times since October 7, 2023. And he went to OPEC in SF in October 2023 to meet with the foreign minister of Israel, delivering the same message each time: "the only resolution acceptable to the US is a two state solution, with Palestine existing as a separate state in which Israel and Hamas will not be present. And Israel is to stop the killing of innocent civilians." Israel has ignored this message: knowing Biden has to abide by pre-existing agreements. That can and will change November 5. In the meantime, let's not put forth wrong statements that make it sound like Biden chooses to give Israel weapons. He has no choice. The minute he abrogated a single written agreement, the Republicans aka MAGA whose orange leader has not informed himself of any one of the agreements, would go berserk.
Hi Bill, Just one correction: Hamas leadership did not think they would establish a two party state that they would be any part of when they invaded Israel. Biden and Blinken's have made that clear during Biden's visit to Israel and Bliken's message to Israel's foreign minister at APEC, October 2023. Biden has made that clear from the get-go of his administration: he favors a two party state, and neither Israel nor Hamas will be part of the Palestine state. Blinken has also made five trips to the mideast since the October 2023 Hamas invasion. The majority Palestine people did not want Hamas: they were threatened at the polls in January 2006, when Hamas was allowed to be on the ballot. George Bush Jr. was president and Condoleezza Rice was SOS: they failed to vet Hamas. No terrorist groups with weapons were to be allowed to run and they were allowed to go on the ballot. When the election came about, Palestinians who showed up at ballot stations were forced to vote for Hamas or ballots were changed: They were frightened to do otherwise. And this was with a UN presence. From that point forward, Hamas ran the show with disruption, force and terror. Biden has also laid down the law to Netanyahu, the third head of the three headed snake. Netanyahu is hoping to cause enough disruption to keep Biden from being re-elected, and if he can create enough chaos including causing death of innocent civilians to get Trump elected, he, snake head no. 2 Putin, and snake head no. 3 Trump will take over the region. And Trump wants to be dictator here. We will re-elect Biden, Trump will be finished and so will the other two snake heads. My tarot card reading. All of these agreements can be found on the State Department website, military affairs section. Biden's hands are tied with aid to Israel until he is re-elected and we have a bicameral congress. Not oddly at all that Junior and Connie have not spoken up and acknowledged their hand in this mess, created because *they* did not vet Hamas. They allowed this.
That’s wonderful Sally. Joyce, stop by afterwards! We are watching
What instrument does he play? I have a couple friends in The President’s Own.
Morning, Ally! (It's Sunday, about 3:47 a.m. here)
Morning. Lynell—6:50 on the west coast.
Clarinet. What do your friends play?
I loved them. You must be so proud.
Have a splendid evening!
Here is something from 7 years ago that rings even truer today:
From Facebook: JUST THINK:
What does white male privilege look like in this country? Imagine this scenario: Hillary Clinton is president. It's learned that she has deep ties to Putin. She puts utterly unqualified billionaires in cabinet posts. She puts her daughter Chelsea in a position of influence in the West Wing. And Chelsea's husband is her chief advisor. She refuses to release any tax returns, she blocks access to the visitor logs in the White House and Bill refuses to live in the White House so our tax dollars are spent keeping him safe in Chappaqua. And Hillary spends almost every weekend lounging in a resort. AND, in an interview, she names the wrong country she bombed while bragging about the chocolate cake she was eating while she ordered said bombing. I could go on and on. The point is that the outrage, the outcries, the screaming by Republicans would be heard around the world and impeachment proceedings would already be underway.
By the way, this is not about political party affiliation at all. Let's face it, if Hillary--or any woman candidate--had five children from three husbands she would never have survived the primary.
Really, even a man with three wives and five children would have never made it past the primary, if he was a Democrat.
Biden’s opponent cheated on his mistress and won all the Repub primaries. 😱🤯😳
Easy to do when you have no real competition.
You're not wrong by any means, but being a man would have only lessened the backlash by a few degrees... Now, I've seen it written down that DJT never said he ran as a GOP Candidate because the Dems would have rejected him outright isn't fact... That may be true, I can neither confirm or deny it, but it is absolutely realistic... In days gone by that would have also been true in the GOP... However as the GOP has seen that their numbers were greatly diminishing they became less picky about who and more concerned with who could they get to engage the old GOP who had lost interest... Many of the ones brought out by DJT were the ones who wouldn't bother voting because the GOP ran too close to center for their tastes... DJT changed that and they did come out in droves...
I love you Joyce Vance! Keep doing what you are doing and know that thousands of us support your work 🤗🥰
How wonderful to see the three of you. You are beautiful in so many ways.
Enjoy tonight. Thank you for reminding us that “we’re in this together”. Knowing that makes it easier
Enjoy! Us chickens will be just fine.
I'm sure Joyce's very well cared for chickens will be fine too.
Guess I’m the eternal optimist. With all the evidence out there, I can’t see how trump can win, unless the fake electors idea catches on. If it does, I’ll join The Sisters on the ledge.
I'm with you--I believe Biden will win. But what the psychopath and his gang does after that--it could get uglier than it is now, sadly.
If they do, the DOJ has had years of practice now plus there'll be time to finish trump's current trials and to start any new ones he racks up. That's a really nice thought.
Aren't you the eternal optimist. I'm not so sure about Garland.
I find it funny-interesting that TFG compares himself to Al Capone, claiming he’s been indicted more times - yep, 3 more times. What he fails to realize is that “the great” ( according to TFG) Capone was convicted and sentenced to 11 years in federal prison, and eventually died from syphilis-related illness. What a comparison. We should be so lucky!
What can the "MAGA 5", that turned up to protest outside the courthouse do?
Will they set themselves on fire or drink the Ivermectin laced Orange Koolaid when President Biden is sworn in?
Let's hope it also has bleach in it. And a big dose of hydroxychloroquin too, save me baby jesus
Yes......Perfect!!! A few drops of Draino and sprinkle it with some Comet..........
It's the gerrymandering and redistricting that can be a deal breaker!
Michigan fixed our gerrymandered mess, and it has been wonderful!
https://votersnotpoliticians.com/redistricting/
True, but Biden prevailed last time. I have to think he will again. Lord knows Trump isn’t gaining new voters.
A number of Staes have implemented fair & independently drawn redistricting most importantly, MICHIGAN, that includes the LP & the UP.
My worry is that Biden has lost votes, due to his stubbor ness mostly.
Any man or women that votes MAGA, supports the child molesters rights to rape any underage girl and force her to bear the rapists baby. That should overide any worries about a man with integrity that has spend a lifetime overcoming small stuttering issures and being a decent human being.
I couldn't agree more! The fact they are tied says way too much about the failings of the American populace. That millions want the rapist and Republicans see self opportunities.
You see it. The GOP needs to be renamed.It is not a democratic party anymore. The reasons are many. The right wing extremists...Koch..Mellon...Coors....Devos...etc have been working on this for decades.........It is imperative the President Biden be re-elected.........the upcoming months are critical for the future of America.
I wrote this to JV:
OCIndependent
OCIndependent’s Newsletter
2 mins ago
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is looking into removing Thomas.
Because you can't recall them. And Republicans won't impeach them. That is why the court must be expanded which Biden doesn't want to do. One of several blind spots out of his past which is destroying America as a democracy.
The electoral college is long past its expiration date.
I wrote this to JM:
OCIndependent
OCIndependent’s Newsletter
2 mins ago
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
Have loved your commentary on TV these past couple of weeks--a sane and knowledgeable voice. It is good to have a night off and just relax and laugh at the annual dinner.
Enjoy, Joyce⚖️⚖️⚖️
As we say—we’re in this together
I wrote this to JV:
OCIndependent
OCIndependent’s Newsletter
2 mins ago
Since this is so critical, I find it hard to understand why you don’t join up with Babara McQuaid and other influential legal people to start a real recall for At the very least Thomas if not Alito??????
Instead of just, as too many others, just warning us about them. Plenty of people warned about the Nazis but didn’t take action.
Have a great time and enjoy lots of laughter therapy!
You all certainly deserve a fun night out. I will look for you while watching 😊
Have a great time and bring us some insights! Enjoy!
Joyce! Have a ball!!
E. Jean, you looked STUNNING at the Time event!! And so deserving of the honor!!
joyce. it feels like you are a family member. Glad a night off for fun and friends.
Enjoy! Photos, please.