But what can Biden do if it is brought to his attention that the election was hacked? Many data scientists (Stephen Spoonamore) feel this is what happened. Can he use his executive powers to demand a hand recount? Particularly in the swing states?
How do you get evidence if they don't do a recount? I'm with you on not amplifying conspiracies, but I wonder how you'd check it out. I do not, and we should not, trust DJT and his cronies to not cheat, right?
He has the motive and the willingness to employ illegal means to win, but I see no evidence that he had the opportunity. The states use a variety of methods of voting and counting, and the idea that Trump was somehow able to rig them in all the battleground states without anybody finding out seems far-fetched. No exit polls support the claim.
In Venezuela, where the opposition claimed the results were phony, exit polls indicated that the official results were inaccurate, the agency doing the counting was controlled by the government in power, and tally sheets from polling stations also supported the claim of fraud. There's nothing like that here.
Sure -- like the Biden-Harris team and/or "the Democrats" *could have* stolen the 2020 election. And that's what this grasping-at-straws reminds me of. The huge difference is that in 2020 and ever since, Trump and friends have fanned the flames in a self-centered effort to undermine that election in particular because they didn't like the outcome. Notice how they're not screaming "Fraud!" this time around?
And let's not overlook the fact that the Harris-Walz team did a stupendous job under very difficult circumstances. I'm a little shocked by the result, but I'm not having a hard time understanding it: for starters, the media landscape is terrible, campaign spending (including dark money) is out of control, and too much of the electorate doesn't know how the economy works. Our challenge now is to minimize as best we can the damage the incoming administration wants to do to anyone it doesn't like, especially migrants, and to the rule of law in general. On to 2026!
I understand the handling of voter data passed thru StarLink hardware. That's like handing a folder of papers to Elon; it's a simple matter to change numbers at that point.
It seems to be human nature. Many of Trump's followers truly believe that he won in 2020; some of Hillary Clinton's supporters believed that the 2016 election was stolen by the Russians. Conspiracy theories can be comforting: It would be nice to think that most people shared my view that Trump will be a terrible President. But unless and until I see persuasive evidence that the election was hacked, I'm proceeding on the assumption that Trump actually won.
Sorry but in 2020 it was repugs that cried foul.in 2024 are we turning into them ???? Let’s hope not.we lost period! Go forward do what needs to be done for 2026.and beyond.
We don't have to turn into them to follow their example. We have less than 2 months to find out if the election was falsely turned in Trump's favor. What's the harm?
Who could we hurt by asking if everything was legitimate?
It doesn’t pass the smell test. Same thing happened in Ohio in 2004. Spoonamore sounded the alarm then also. Turns out that election was fraudulent. The SOS was in on it.
Do not become like MAGA and see conspiracies around every corner...
The truth of the matter is a lot of people chose themselves over everything else and decided the threat wasn't to them...
Yes, people in this country are selfish and greedy... Not everyone ofc, but enough to tip the scales... His first victory in 2016 was on the heads of those who assumed he couldn't possibly win and stayed home... This one is on those who cared more about the cost of groceries...
Spoonamore is a conspiracist. He put forth "facts" without supporting data. What happened is too many apathetic Dems stayed home. I do think that Russian bots were successful and persuading a lot of voters to stay home
I think you have said it well. I have heard many pundits and analysts talk about the data. The expected white women to vote against abortion split their vote. An increased number of black and Hispanic men’s votes went up by ten percent in both. The number of voters overall were less in 2024 than in 2020. Kamala was new to a LOT of people. The last I heard, the difference was 1.5 points which is a fantastic outcome but Trump won the swing states.
But...if you are citing altered numbers, which you would be, then you aren't coming to a valid conclusion at all. Thos totals and percentages are what somebody wants us to see, and accept, and move along peacefully.
Did you read all his articles? And did you know he sounded the alarm in 2004 for the Ohio election that turned out to be true (the SOS was in on it) that it was fraudulent. A hand recount would tell the truth.
Can you cite a source for this claim? Betsy is right, Spoonamore is a conspiracy theorist. He's provided no evidence at all for his claims, although he says he has it. Multiple people have requested his evidence, and so far he's provided none. I'm sure he thoroughly enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.
Then do nothing and we will never know. Be a defeatist even though it doesn’t make sense for example that he won ALL SEVEN swing states with less than 50% of the vote. When has that happened before? That’s just one example.
All Spoonamore is saying is do a hand recount in the swing states, or at least MI, AZ, NC & WI. which will TELL THE TRUTH!
OMG, Marlo, I have been thinking the same thing. The count is way too close, and Spoonamore's data proves it. The little secret that Trump and Johnson had going with Johnson's little SEG was a dead giveaway. All of those bullet ballots and no down-ballot voting—just too damn suspicious. They cried foul for no reason — we should have the right to a recount with experts. I don't think that Biden cares, or he would do something — we're running out of time. He could appoint Marc Elias or someone to do something, maybe.
It's fairly evident that the cavalry is not coming.
It doesn't prove any such thing. Do you realize how you sound like the Trumpers who cried foul on 2020, based on virtually no evidence? This is how conspiracy theories spread. They're all "what if? what if?" with zero regard for evidence and probabilities.
Evidence will only be found by looking, and so far nobody is looking.
In an election I don't think we have to prove there are problems before we go look for problems. The high standard for elections ought to mean there is no fear or resistance on anyone's part to verify voting totals.
How do we really know if nothing is being done to investigate? Isn’t it the duty of the DOJ or FBI to look into voting abnormalities? And we wouldn’t even know unless and until an indictment was announced. We can only hope that an investigation is happening behind the scenes.
I agree. I feel like I am screaming and being held underwater with no one coming to save me or able to hear me. It’s so frustrating.
Wouldn’t it be a shame if it came out that it was rigged. And we didn’t even do a hand recount in some of the states? (Spoonamore said to do in at least MI, AZ, WI & NC).
I agree that Trump’s nominees must be vetted by the FBI. This is a standard part of “advise and consent” by the Senate in the Judiciary Committee and then, if a nominee receives a majority in the committee, the whole Senate votes on them. “Advise and Consent” by the Senate are in the US Constitution. Trump’s picks are truly unqualified. Not to mention the many who have sexual assault in their backgrounds. In terms of unqualified: Dr Mehmet Oz to run the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. (CMS)!! Just because Oz is a heart surgeon and has a tv show where he hocks supplements does not make him qualified to run a very complex and hugely important public health services department in our government. And
RFK Jr. to run Health and Human Services????? He is an absolutely unacceptable candidate. The man is an avid conspiracy theorist, especially when it comes to vaccines. He is against them and says that they cause all sorts of things like autism. The doctor that initially made this claim about autism in the 1980s later admitted that he’d fudged his data and that vaccines do NOT cause autism. Who knows how many children didn’t receive their standard childhood vaccines because of RFK Jr?? . All of these many conspiracies are why virtually every state now requires children who attend public schools to have had the standard childhood vaccines. California (my state) has done away with the conscientious objector loophole where parents could claim that it was against their religious beliefs to vaccinate their children. NOPE NOT ANY MORE. Those parents can enroll their children in private school or they can home school them. Pretty sure the Catholic schools have the same rules as public schools. Imagine if RFK Jr had been HHS Secretary during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Dear Joyce, I'm grateful for you. My son passed away four years ago. He was a social justice crusader and knew everything there was to know about politics. He read your comments on Twitter and watched you in MSNBC from the beginning. He didn't like his picture taken and more often than not, made a face when I tried to get a shot. Your picture with your husband made me smile.
Join with all your subscribers in wishing you and your family ( including the feathered members) A very a happy Thanksgiving , Joyce. God Bless you...and yours for the humor and for guiding us through these difficult times..
As we all are thankful for you!
But what can Biden do if it is brought to his attention that the election was hacked? Many data scientists (Stephen Spoonamore) feel this is what happened. Can he use his executive powers to demand a hand recount? Particularly in the swing states?
Why are so many people amplifying Stephen Spoonamore's suspicions even though they have NO evidence to back them up?
How do you get evidence if they don't do a recount? I'm with you on not amplifying conspiracies, but I wonder how you'd check it out. I do not, and we should not, trust DJT and his cronies to not cheat, right?
He has the motive and the willingness to employ illegal means to win, but I see no evidence that he had the opportunity. The states use a variety of methods of voting and counting, and the idea that Trump was somehow able to rig them in all the battleground states without anybody finding out seems far-fetched. No exit polls support the claim.
In Venezuela, where the opposition claimed the results were phony, exit polls indicated that the official results were inaccurate, the agency doing the counting was controlled by the government in power, and tally sheets from polling stations also supported the claim of fraud. There's nothing like that here.
Couldn't Musk have ways and know people who could do this unseen and efficiently?
Hypotheticals are not evidence.
Sure -- like the Biden-Harris team and/or "the Democrats" *could have* stolen the 2020 election. And that's what this grasping-at-straws reminds me of. The huge difference is that in 2020 and ever since, Trump and friends have fanned the flames in a self-centered effort to undermine that election in particular because they didn't like the outcome. Notice how they're not screaming "Fraud!" this time around?
And let's not overlook the fact that the Harris-Walz team did a stupendous job under very difficult circumstances. I'm a little shocked by the result, but I'm not having a hard time understanding it: for starters, the media landscape is terrible, campaign spending (including dark money) is out of control, and too much of the electorate doesn't know how the economy works. Our challenge now is to minimize as best we can the damage the incoming administration wants to do to anyone it doesn't like, especially migrants, and to the rule of law in general. On to 2026!
I understand the handling of voter data passed thru StarLink hardware. That's like handing a folder of papers to Elon; it's a simple matter to change numbers at that point.
No one would think trump could do that but Putin…
A hand recount would tell the truth! But I guess the democrats are too apathetic to insist on it. They lost their fight, unfortunately.
It seems to be human nature. Many of Trump's followers truly believe that he won in 2020; some of Hillary Clinton's supporters believed that the 2016 election was stolen by the Russians. Conspiracy theories can be comforting: It would be nice to think that most people shared my view that Trump will be a terrible President. But unless and until I see persuasive evidence that the election was hacked, I'm proceeding on the assumption that Trump actually won.
Sorry but in 2020 it was repugs that cried foul.in 2024 are we turning into them ???? Let’s hope not.we lost period! Go forward do what needs to be done for 2026.and beyond.
How do we know with absolute certainty without all leads and thoughtful suspicions followed to their end?
Why not take a giant hint from the trump train that they KNEW they were going to win with Zero hints that that could happen?
Why fold until we are satisfied that the slim majority actually went to the right?
This is a BIG deal, so why not treat it as one?
We don't have to turn into them to follow their example. We have less than 2 months to find out if the election was falsely turned in Trump's favor. What's the harm?
Who could we hurt by asking if everything was legitimate?
It doesn’t pass the smell test. Same thing happened in Ohio in 2004. Spoonamore sounded the alarm then also. Turns out that election was fraudulent. The SOS was in on it.
Do not become like MAGA and see conspiracies around every corner...
The truth of the matter is a lot of people chose themselves over everything else and decided the threat wasn't to them...
Yes, people in this country are selfish and greedy... Not everyone ofc, but enough to tip the scales... His first victory in 2016 was on the heads of those who assumed he couldn't possibly win and stayed home... This one is on those who cared more about the cost of groceries...
I agree.
Spoonamore is a conspiracist. He put forth "facts" without supporting data. What happened is too many apathetic Dems stayed home. I do think that Russian bots were successful and persuading a lot of voters to stay home
I think you have said it well. I have heard many pundits and analysts talk about the data. The expected white women to vote against abortion split their vote. An increased number of black and Hispanic men’s votes went up by ten percent in both. The number of voters overall were less in 2024 than in 2020. Kamala was new to a LOT of people. The last I heard, the difference was 1.5 points which is a fantastic outcome but Trump won the swing states.
But...if you are citing altered numbers, which you would be, then you aren't coming to a valid conclusion at all. Thos totals and percentages are what somebody wants us to see, and accept, and move along peacefully.
Did you read all his articles? And did you know he sounded the alarm in 2004 for the Ohio election that turned out to be true (the SOS was in on it) that it was fraudulent. A hand recount would tell the truth.
Can you cite a source for this claim? Betsy is right, Spoonamore is a conspiracy theorist. He's provided no evidence at all for his claims, although he says he has it. Multiple people have requested his evidence, and so far he's provided none. I'm sure he thoroughly enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.
Then do nothing and we will never know. Be a defeatist even though it doesn’t make sense for example that he won ALL SEVEN swing states with less than 50% of the vote. When has that happened before? That’s just one example.
All Spoonamore is saying is do a hand recount in the swing states, or at least MI, AZ, NC & WI. which will TELL THE TRUTH!
Trump did hand counts, why can’t the democrats?
Yes. Big problems ahead of we don't ask the legit questions. We need to learn how/who would pursue our legit concerns,maybe fall on the sword for us?
So, what if he is? His pointing out the oddly high number of the "bullet ballots" isn't nutty. It's a valid area of inquiry.
But he is incorrect. In presidential elections, there is often a high number of bullet ballots.
OMG, Marlo, I have been thinking the same thing. The count is way too close, and Spoonamore's data proves it. The little secret that Trump and Johnson had going with Johnson's little SEG was a dead giveaway. All of those bullet ballots and no down-ballot voting—just too damn suspicious. They cried foul for no reason — we should have the right to a recount with experts. I don't think that Biden cares, or he would do something — we're running out of time. He could appoint Marc Elias or someone to do something, maybe.
It's fairly evident that the cavalry is not coming.
It doesn't prove any such thing. Do you realize how you sound like the Trumpers who cried foul on 2020, based on virtually no evidence? This is how conspiracy theories spread. They're all "what if? what if?" with zero regard for evidence and probabilities.
Probabilities? Is crap. Meaningless.
Evidence will only be found by looking, and so far nobody is looking.
In an election I don't think we have to prove there are problems before we go look for problems. The high standard for elections ought to mean there is no fear or resistance on anyone's part to verify voting totals.
A hand recount in the swing states would tell the truth.
Yes I agree.
Why isn't there much more noise from the public to make sure this unexpected outcome is valid? Don't ask me.
Why is most of the noise from people who don't want to know? You tell me.
How do we really know if nothing is being done to investigate? Isn’t it the duty of the DOJ or FBI to look into voting abnormalities? And we wouldn’t even know unless and until an indictment was announced. We can only hope that an investigation is happening behind the scenes.
I agree. I feel like I am screaming and being held underwater with no one coming to save me or able to hear me. It’s so frustrating.
Wouldn’t it be a shame if it came out that it was rigged. And we didn’t even do a hand recount in some of the states? (Spoonamore said to do in at least MI, AZ, WI & NC).
Maybe if got the media’s attention? I bet the public would be in an uproar and protest. I have been sending articles to the media but …nothing.
Because it's a conspiracy theory, with ZERO evidence to back up the claims.
Read his Substack articles and then tell me if you still think so.
We don't know what President Biden is doing, but he's been busy.
Agree and also order an FBI check on Trump's cabinet choices
I agree that Trump’s nominees must be vetted by the FBI. This is a standard part of “advise and consent” by the Senate in the Judiciary Committee and then, if a nominee receives a majority in the committee, the whole Senate votes on them. “Advise and Consent” by the Senate are in the US Constitution. Trump’s picks are truly unqualified. Not to mention the many who have sexual assault in their backgrounds. In terms of unqualified: Dr Mehmet Oz to run the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. (CMS)!! Just because Oz is a heart surgeon and has a tv show where he hocks supplements does not make him qualified to run a very complex and hugely important public health services department in our government. And
RFK Jr. to run Health and Human Services????? He is an absolutely unacceptable candidate. The man is an avid conspiracy theorist, especially when it comes to vaccines. He is against them and says that they cause all sorts of things like autism. The doctor that initially made this claim about autism in the 1980s later admitted that he’d fudged his data and that vaccines do NOT cause autism. Who knows how many children didn’t receive their standard childhood vaccines because of RFK Jr?? . All of these many conspiracies are why virtually every state now requires children who attend public schools to have had the standard childhood vaccines. California (my state) has done away with the conscientious objector loophole where parents could claim that it was against their religious beliefs to vaccinate their children. NOPE NOT ANY MORE. Those parents can enroll their children in private school or they can home school them. Pretty sure the Catholic schools have the same rules as public schools. Imagine if RFK Jr had been HHS Secretary during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Yes I am indeed thankful for you, Joyce . It takes courage, kindness towards your fellow citizens and a huge amount of knowledge to do what you do.
Best to you and yours.
Your essays encourage me to continue to stay hopeful as well. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Holy Moly! How tall is your husband? And he looks like a lot of FUN!
Thank you, Joyce, for all you do to keep us informed, hopeful, and sane.
Wishing your entire family, including the four leggeds, both furry and feathered, a most Happy Thanksgiving.
yes! I agree-He must be one keeping things light-hearted, still fun. I like his attitude!
❤️ Thankful for you, Joyce and your devotion to all things legal and good in our world! Grateful for all the Sisters In Law.
Bob, the esteemed judge, cracks me up!!!!! It’s wonderful that you have a great family and all your wonderful pets!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family - right on down to the chickens!
Happy Thanksgiving, Joyce! Perfect photographs.
I am thankful for all your posts. I have learned so much from you. I am grateful to be a subscriber.
Yes, indeed. You are remarkable, Joyce.
Sure, I have one of those Mimosas!
I love these pics. Who knew a judge could have a sense of humor? I am grateful there are so many of us being grateful together ❤️
Dear Joyce, I'm grateful for you. My son passed away four years ago. He was a social justice crusader and knew everything there was to know about politics. He read your comments on Twitter and watched you in MSNBC from the beginning. He didn't like his picture taken and more often than not, made a face when I tried to get a shot. Your picture with your husband made me smile.
Ohhhhh Mary Ellen, I am very sorry to hear that. My very best to you.
happy Thanksgiving Joyce and to this community keeping us sane .. thankful for you all.. love the chicken pics
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
Three Bowls for Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving’s first bowl is for birds and beasts and corn
And pumpkins and mushrooms and potatoes and beans and
Rice and butter and grapes and every other thing that fills
Our cornucopia’s every niche that we might meet again
Under a November’s sky and carry our dishes with
Eager anticipation across the yard and up the
Steps and into waiting arms ; old friends
We meet again or for the first time
Joyfully aware of community
Leave your dishes upon this old saucer’s heart
Thanksgiving’s second bowl is for people ; their
innovation, their inspiration, their foibles, their ills,
Their joys, their shortcomings, their music, their
paintings, their poetry, their inventions, their
discoveries, their wants , their desires, as
Human beings we share a common
Yearning to participate in our
Going forward into the
Immensity so
Leave your prejudices beside this door’s saucer
Thanksgiving’s third bowl is for shedding your old skin’s
Leave them hanging neatly in your oldest closet’s ; molting,
Step eagerly into the next instant’s meager message, there
Is only this next moment and then another, and so on and
So forth your path’s next step taken with friends, here
In the warm embrace of a Whirlybird thanksgiving
I greet you with three empty bowls of poetry
I invite you to fill them all from this
Bountiful table’s waiting arms
Leave your precious melodies upon this saucer’s growing song
Lovely!
Thank you for that.
You’re welcome
Quite welcome
Right back atcha! Thanks for all you do to keep me - and the rest of us - sane among the crazies!
Join with all your subscribers in wishing you and your family ( including the feathered members) A very a happy Thanksgiving , Joyce. God Bless you...and yours for the humor and for guiding us through these difficult times..
You are a treasure to us all!
Thank you, Joyce! Happy Thanksgiving❤️🦃🍹🥧🥂☕️!
Thanks for all you do, Joyce.
Happy Thanksgiving Ms Joyce and entire krew from chilly Lexington Kentucky. Peace ✌️
Happy Thanksgiving to you, Joyce, and all the two-footed and four-footed family members!
Grace and Peace, too!