Last night, Donald Trump posted on Truth Social that what happened to him wasn’t a prosecution. He called it a persecution. He was wrong. It’s a conviction. Donald Trump is now a convicted felon. Americans have let Trump shake their faith in many of our democratic institutions our country is built on, From the start of his first campaign, Trump denigrated immigrants as criminals. He challenged confidence in our elections, the work of the intelligence community, the Justice Department, military leaders, and perhaps most dangerously of all, public health officials during a deadly pandemic. Now, and unsurprisingly, he’s after the jury system that convicted him. He’s spent months calling prosecutors, judges, and witnesses corrupt and putting them and their families in danger.
Trump wasn't prosecuted because he was running for president. He was prosecuted because he has committed so many felonies for so many decades, that anything he can be prosecuted about cries out for prosecution.
You could say he selected himself for prosecution.
If Al Capone got out of jail and spat on the sidewalk, he should be prosecuted.
MAGA has been blackmailing us for years saying: “Don't get us really angry!"
Speaking for myself, Valarie, not lean, not mean, with not so great exercise and diet habits... I follow the rule of law only when I think it is moral. But fair? We are in complete agreement! 😉😏👍
I agree, and while much has been said about how his base has been energized, I don't think enough is being said about the inverse scenario where the conviction energizes the opposition to Trump. There has been a feeling of the inevitability of Trump that has demoralized some who have opposed him, and that's gone now. Some of those people are now ready to fight like hell to prevent him from being elected.
No matter how fired up his base gets, they only have one vote each.
We defeated him in 2020. That was BEFORE the insurrection. Some voters drew the line at that, according to focus groups. Now we also have the felony conviction. Thats not going to help him.
He hasn't gained any voters. He he never has.
Finally, he says he raised $34 million isince the conviction
You know what? I don't believe it. This is an easy lie to tell, to demoralize us, and the actual legal figure doesn't go in the.books for weeks. He could and would make up this figure, and later "forget" to mention it was only a third of that amount.
He lies constantly and this would be an excellent one to give the finger to those who oppose him.
Why does the press presume truth whenever he throws these lies around?
You know what my immediate thought was? That he made up the number of 34 million because it was a number that was in the forefront of his pea-sized "brain". Seriously.
34 just happens to be the number of felonies he was convicted of. A number probably now implanted in his febrile miasma of a brain. Hope Dems can deploy that number in their messaging, non-stop, until he explodes.
The Magas, especially those in Congress, and the ennabling Media, will go frothy when they learn that Act Blue has been processing gazillions of $34 individual donations.
Exactly - he is a champ at spouting off, usually untruths and exaggerations, but we can be assured things he yaps on about are "bigly" and grossly over-stated.
I refuse to give in to the cynical view that Trump’s conviction in Manhattan is the tipping point that just guaranteed his election. The strident MAGA voices,
most prominently the disgraceful Republican senators and members of Congress-sycophants who are lining up to undermine the justice system are on overdrive trying to convince us of this.
These same disgraceful elected officials are bludgeoning the system-blocking legitimate judicial nominations and protesting Trump’s conviction and his many prosecutions as a pretext for their obstructionism. I think we need a new vocabulary to explain the damage they are doing to our country.
That any sitting U.S. Senator--let alone 8 of them--should lower themselves to sign a statement that they KNOW is untrue, which undermines the courts and judicial system of this country, is absolutely shameful, in my opinion.
Every one of them should be censured. Actually they should be expelled but that requires concurrence of two thirds of the members of the Senate and we will never get that. More's the pity.
Yes each one should be censured. No doubt every damn one of them would be shouting from the rooftops how great the justice system is had the jury found trump not guilty. Just like the election. Had trump won in 2020 they would have been saying all was perfect with the election process.
I truly hope that you are right. Never forget, we are dealing with a cult and a cult leader that cares only for himself. His souless followers will do anything he says.....they know and understand his subliminal messaging.
During the last days of WW2, fanatical Nazis fought to the bitter end, even though it was a lost cause. For sure there will be Maggots that may go farther than lighting themselves on fire or swatting their hit list daily.
I hope not. But I have a friend, a brilliant lawyer, a conservative, who's parroting the entire MAGA line. I fear that if she can be entranced, what's to keep my ignorant brother from bowing down?
Maureen, the books are full of accounts of brilliant folks being brainwashed. The CIA did a study years ago, and I wish I’d kept it because I had a copy, but they had psychological determiners for those folks who could be easily brainwashed. Being less than brilliant was not one of these. I saw the most brilliant man I have ever known swallow the MAGA line and all of the conspiracies entirely. For him, thankfully, that all changed on January 6 when he saw something so egregious and so outside of our mores that allows for peaceful protesting, that it shook him to his core and snapped him out of the cultist trap. Most MAGA, brilliant or not, will not be snapped out of their brainwashed state. If one wonders how this could’ve happened, look no further than Steve Bannon with his psychological warfare skills. He and his ilk have been beating the drum six days a week on their podcasts, repeating the same message prior to the 2016 election, which then was that Hillary was all the things they said in their conspiracies, and they frightened people. Fear is a big determiner in becoming susceptible to being brainwashed. And Bannon, with his psy-ops abilities knows this. No one knows it better than Trump.
Valere: Is his popularity based on a common “grievance” thread by those who experienced childhood grievances and carried that perception through adulthood? And this identify with him so strongly? He has been obsessed with that but now it totally consumes him as he faces not only the final act of political (and possibly financial) defeat/ruin as well as ultimately some form of incarceration after November 5? A formula for a stroke by an overweight 78 yr old w/extraordinary pressures who consumes 12 diet cokes per day? It is likely that Merchan will recognize the political pushback nationwide if he sentences him to home confinement before November 5 and thus wisely delays ultimate sentencing until after the election? What do you think?
So was your “brilliant lawyer” friend MAGA before the trial or did this conviction woo her? Somehow, although I obviously don’t know her, I find it difficult to accept that this person swung her vote after this loathsome grifter was found guilty.
I have been thinking about this lately. Imagine a world where Trump sailed away in the sunset, became a non-issue. He has provided the media, conservative leaning or liberal leaning, with a giant gift - viewership. Clicks. Ratings. A whole lot of viewers will cease to be viewers, or at least not view nearly as much, with him out of the picture. News will get dull instantly with him gone. It is practically a foregone conslusion that coverage of the news the way it is these past few years and maybe longer, is tainted by concerns about ratings. Duh. As it pertains to Trump - the press may want him around to keep up thier profits, and will color their reporting in the interest of just that.
Last night when they said the donations site went down, my b.s. radar went off - wouldn’t it be a great marketing tool to say it crashed due to all the donations and spur others on. I’ll believe the numbers when I see them.
Absolutely! It got me for a minute- I was discouraged and upset. But I snapped out of it because where did that info come from? Is it verified? And don't we know a few determined trolls could crash a website easily? We cannot do Trump's scare tactics FOR him, folks! We can't run around saying this won't make a dent in him a felony conviction can't hurt him, he's invinveable, blah blah blah.
The man just got convicted of 34 felonies. Its his sky thats falling, not ours!
We all know trump and his people all lie. I live not far from where he held a rally here in Schnecksville, PA. Trump said there were 30-40,000 people there. I have 2 friends who are PA. State Troopers who told me that they were told to expect 7,000 and there were about 4,000 in attendance. I believe my friends…
Just like those numbers he posted for his rally in the Bronx. He claimed something like 40,000 in attendance, with another 20,000 being turned away for a lack of ‘room’.
The rally was in a giant, open-air public park. I saw a drone shot and it looked like there were maybe 2500 people there. Maybe. And for a boro (the Bronx) that’s 50% Hispanic and 40% Black, there were an awful lot of white faces in that crowd.
Trump is the Emperor with no clothes. Don’t believe a word he and his supporters say. $34 million? Pfft. His entire adult life has been built on lies. He is a con man. I was born in NYC and raised in NJ. We have always known Trump is a con man. He bankrupted a casino, for goodness sake. His only talent is lying with utter confidence. He has been doing it so long he believes his own BS. This is the beginning of a season of reckoning with that mountain of lies. May the truth at last prevail.
I am a registered Democrat and I have received one text message today asking for money. Then, rather than just deleting my Hotmail junk, I scrolled through it. Numerous emails with the same pleading message. If everyone of his followers paid after receiving numerous messages, maybe it added up??? But we can't believe a word he says unless it's what he's going to do when elected. That I believe.
I am a registered Democrat too, and just counted 30+ email messages asking for money, including 4 from Joe Biden. Some are for local or state Democrats from other states, one is from Mark Hamill on Biden/Harris campaign's behalf. Don't know if that means you're better at locking down your email, or or what?! I get about 3-5 text messages a day also, usually from Biden/Harris campaign directly. I do wonder how truthful his accounts are of how much he is taking in (and how much of it is going toward paying his various legal fees).
Even if $34 million is correct, it amounts to less than 50 cents from each of the 73 million who voted for him. Not exactly a windfall. And I agree, the figure was probably pulled out of thin air.
There's almost no chance of Trump telling the truth about his fund raising; especially given how convenient the 34 million is. But, it doesn't really matter. The only people giving him money are the MAGA faithful that were already voting for him.
Only people who believe Trump is being persecuted are going to be outraged by his conviction. Those people aren't voting for anyone else. It's a long time to November. It's unlikely that there's going to be a large number of people still outraged about this who are only voting because of it. He's not going to pick up any significant number of new voters and is going to alienate far more.
I completely agree. Even his small donors have been flagging lately, according to sources I trust. Maybe they'll get fired up, but he'll to keep that plate spinning constantly.
I hope that "Convicted Felon Donald Trump" is his new name in the mouths of all who oppose him.
He's taught me a few things.: the value of repetition, for one thing. And casting doubt on things, vaguely, and repeating the doubt.
I think the conviction is going to sink in over time. And ads asking "do you really want a convicted felon in the WH? Representing America on the world stage?"
He has some street smarts. I think he knows he just lost.
Trump depends on the very basic psychology that says, if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it's true. To a large degree, this has proven to be true, not only in building the MAGA cult but in the breathtaking public statements being made by high level Republicans in Congress and governorships that parrot Trump's lies about being persecuted by Joe Biden.
I totally agree with Dean. This should be the last straw for those trying to find any way not to vote for him. In reality they shouldn't need another reason but I still believe that people will realize that they can't use both hands to hold their nose and still mark their ballot and vote.
A small sample of former Trump voters did a focus group which Laura Barron-Lopez reported on was discussed. Fascinating and somewhat encouraging even though only 9 people.
John, thx for the PBS poll about voting attitudes toward trump if found guilty. Fascinating. Wish it were much larger a sample, but still interesting. So it looks like the small percentage Republican voters who his guilt verdict made a difference weren't really trump voters - just rebellious. Hope they keep polling on this issue as time goes on but with many more participants. Good info.
Looking forward to watching PBS Newshour and David & Jonathan (although I really watch to see how David portrays this news; I've always appreciated his and Mark Shields' viewpoints but haven't warmed up to Jonathan's so far.)
Well, Ivan I know what you mean. Sometimes our struggles do simply take faith and perseverance to get the job done. I certainly can't say that my small achievements in life are due to me alone. They always took faith. Take heart, and do what you can.
Yes Bruce. Joyce it is Substack two or three postings about with the words “Do not despair.”
We are on the right side of the law, we are on the right side of Justice. We are on the right side of preserving our beautiful democracy. I have no way of knowing this, but I do believe with my soul that there are more of us than ‘them.’ We need to vote Blue and encourage friends, family and neighbors to do so as well. Postcards!
I ain't buyin' it either (that the conviction assured former guy's election). It's absurd on its face. We're supposed to believe that so many people who weren't hard-core MAGA cultists before suddenly became so in such numbers as to guarantee at least an electoral college win if not a popular-vote win? That vast numbers of heretofore undecided or "soft" GOP voters, thus at least potentially rational and with some sort of moral grounding, see a conviction after what appeared to be a completely by-the-book trial as a reason to flip from some degree of thoughtfulness to extremist obeisance to a felon they weren't thrilled about before?
Further: Just as there is some percentage of the populace who will buy any product no matter how useless or ridiculous, so is there a percentage that will believe any lie no matter how preposterous and follow any leader no matter how obviously corrupt and evil. I don't have up-to-the-minute poll data and put almost zero credence in polls anyway, but it seems that around 25% of the population are MAGA cultists who will dismiss or even embrace former guy's conviction. Let's call it 33%, for discussion purposes. Let's also say, without getting into the weeds of which polls stand up to scrutiny and which are obviously propaganda instruments, Biden has somewhere around 45-50% voter support.
That means about 17-23% of the electorate fall somewhere in between the MAGA cult and the Biden camp. Based on the total number of votes cast for president in 2020, that means that somewhere around 26.4 million and 35.7 million voters would have to go from Undecided or Never Trump to Full MAGA. Again for discussion purposes, let's say half of those voters would decide to vote MAGA for their own reasons apart from the felony conviction. That still leaves about 13.2-17.8 million voters for whom the conviction would be the tipping point into MAGA-land.
Even considering defections, new voters, perversions of the Electoral College, etc., the claim that the conviction sealed the deal for the former guy doesn't come close to passing the first-level sniff test. I immediately tossed it into the MAGA Whistling Past the Graveyard bin, with a copy into the Mass Media Clickbait bin.
The two keys to the election will be: (1) getting the message across to that 17-23% that the choice is between democracy and fascism, not between a Democrat and a Republican or a liberal and a conservative; and (2) getting people to vote (registering new or lapsed voters, helping voters get to the polls).
Nothing less than our democracy, as bumbling and inefficient as it can be, is at stake. We cannot afford to fail in our efforts to stimulate voting in larger numbers than ever before. Phone banking, writing postcards, registering voters, canvassing and door-knocking, talking civilly with friends and family, being a shuttle driver on Election Day -- whatever it takes, DO IT.
Peter, I think you are right on both counts. Five more months of his word salads and his grievances is already a tired act. Not a winning formula. Major Trump fatigue will set in by November.
This man has done more to divide our country than we realize. supported by power hungry incompetent minions with zero or severely limited leadership skills and no ethics. Trump has been a Bull(y) in a china shop since 2016, Violated the emolument rules, stole the 2016 Election from the people, enriched his family and associates. His thievery and grift is astounding. No morals, ethics or humility. A pawn of the ultra rich, right wing, white nationalists for whom everything is still not enough. I’m thoroughly disgusted and deeply disappointed with anyone who thinks he has what it takes to lead our country through our national & global challenges.
Now he is literally halting the work of the gov't based on the statement signed by some jackass Republican senators. Very very scary. I think his v old unfilled emotional needs are like magnets to people w similar needs. The bond is that strong and that delusional. These people have lost touch w reality. I hope Merchan will impose incarceration based on his crime affecting the outcome of a frigging presidential election!!
Surgeons save lives by getting the pus out. There’s more pus in there than I ever expected. Stay in there, and the pus will all come out under hot lights and cold steel. Surgery requires diligence, resolve and a strong stomach. So does American citizenship.
Yeah, in “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, it’s clear that the timidity of the constitutionalists in Germany, especially within the Army, led to Hitler’s full seizure of power. Nazis never polled more than 37%, a very MAGA-like number. The billionaire industrialists thought they could use/control him … they were wrong. I’m only 1/3rd of the way through the book, at the point in early March 1938 where Austria was invaded. But most of what I wanted to learn about Hitler’s rise to power has been covered, including the flaccid response of France to the re-occupation of the Rhineland, when they failed to call his bluff. Much different now, but the current use of lies and propaganda really echoes the past.
It is remarkable that the words you use to describe the “high end” supporters of Trump echo the words of historians writing about the rise of NAZISM. This is not a direct correlation. But it does bring to mind that history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Concerns, yes. I try to convert my concerns into postcards to register voters. It's a big relief to me that this man who has been actively tormenting so many people for so long has actually been held to account by a jury. That's also energy for postcards...
I agree. I have sent postcards encouraging people to vote twice to Georgia and once to Kentucky. ( I am 3 for 3 in the win column!) I am now working on postcards for Arizona. I contribute to as many candidates as I can. We must defeat the GOP!
Arizona is especially important as it’s a delegation that might be flipped to majority Dems. That will matter if the presidential election is close enough for corrupt Alito to try to push it to the House.
Same Joan! We do not need to live a fear based life. We are on the right side of democracy, the right side of justice, and we can challenge and confront with our postcards!!💟
Me too. I fell asleep at 10 am the night of #OrangeTurd was first elected. I woke up. to MSNBC the next a.m. -- what a huge gut-punch to find out that horrible "person" was our POTUS-elect.
Oh, please pray this is so. Let’s not be afraid of his “base” and/or people that put out such threats to anyone… the Jurists must be protected. I would put nothing past Magats. It has been stated that (possibly) some of them may look like they are for him, but in the voting booth, alone, may not happen. I hope for that, too. Why would anyone want more of these do-nothing but make trouble, in-our-face liars. We are at our capacity… 🇺🇸🥲
Thank you Ruth:) We do not need to feel threatened or live fear-based lives. I’m feeling better as I write postcards, plan to join the women’s march in August. And I have noticed I may be speaking a bit more loudly lately as I challenge and confront the nonsense. I know for sure that I am increasing my numbers of confrontations. If you don’t confront them, they stand as acceptable statements. I was presented with one of Trump‘s misinformation twisted lies last night, that the NY legislator made a law just for E. Jean Carroll to use against Trump. I responded quickly and vociferously: the law, The Adult Survivors Act, in my understanding was in the works to give voice to children - now adult - survivors who suffered sexual abuse from Catholic priests. E. Jean filed some six months after the one year window opened. It takes patience to the nth degree to confront, and challenge and confront these nonsense lies over and over and over. I’ve made my own decision on what to do when I hear these lies and that’s up to every single one of us as we stand on the right side of the law. I’m not shutting up. I full well realize that each time I confront (almost always gently) that a friend may be ‘miffed’ over what I say and I also know that I might not make a bit of difference: but it truly is how we ‘run the race.’ We are almost to the wire and we will reach November 5 by not hiding and passing the ‘face test’ in the mirror. Our democracy is more important than having false friendships.
I just want Trump to go away forever. If I counted how many times I have to hear his name on the TV, I bet it would have been millions by now. We cannot watch 10 minutes of TV without a mention of him.🤮
The GOP (Gutless Opportunistic Parasites) deserves to be dismantled and thrown on to a trash pile! I have to wonder how all those elected to office who are lawyers are allowed to keep their law licenses considering how they denigrated the whole justice system with their remarks about the trump trial. The whole damn bunch whether they are lawyers or not deserve to be ousted from office. They are making a mockery of our democratic republic! Had they had a smidge of self respect trump would have been thrown out long ago.
Diana, I similarly am amazed that so many of these Congressmen are graduates of Harvard and Yale and the like. My opinion of these highly-esteemed universities has plummeted!
Well, Dianna, you said it all. We are so tired of the lies, they are so degrading. I just can’t imagine that if people don’t reject him. We cannot believe any “r”/“maga” and the MSM is about as bad. Fox really needs to be held accountable (somehow) pure bold-faced LIARS. UGH.
He WILL fail because my prayers are very powerful.
"Senator Lee said... “I wouldn’t hire that person, wouldn’t want to be associated with that person … I certainly don’t think I would feel comfortable hiring that person to be the leader of the free world.” But Lee has endorsed Trump in this election and apparently has no intention of backing away."
The GOP went down when they embraced him before the 2016 election. No matter how absurd his plans are or how horrible he is at trashing people they absolve him. He is a big very loud, nothing who has accomplished little but hurt much and many.
Well, now we know who the EIGHT BIGGEST MORONS IN THE SENATE ARE, as if we didn't already. Wow: think how history will admire their tenacious hold on lies and stupidity! What gifts!
Wait, wait. What about RoJo from Wisconsin? He’s long had my vote for the Dumbest. That is, until ‘Coach’ arrived on the scene, somehow managing to represent 2 states at the same time.
It would be fair game to get going on recall efforts. Their open letter clearly states they are refusing to do their job - they were elected, supposedly, to work for the good of their constituents, not to bow down to a convicted felon. Shame on them for attacking our system of laws, of governance.
Over the past several years I have and continue to be surprised at Marco Rubio. He was once considered a rising star of the conservative Republicans but he has shown himself to be a MAGA follower not a leader.
I read a post on Threads...social media...yesterday...(not exact quote, but close) "Trump could shoot Marco Rubio on 5th avenue and Rubio would compliment him for his use of the 2nd amendment."
It is beyond incredible that so many of these folks are coming off to this reader as DAMN FOOLS! Nikki Haley is the most recent to disgrace herself by moving into the “Of Course, I’m going to Vote For Trump” class of power crazed idiots. Just look back at all their earlier statements about Trump; everything from he’s incompetent to he’s a psychopath only to make a full turn to embrace him as the party leader. Thank goodness, Larry Hogan spoke out after Trump’s “guilty as charged” day in court to say he should withdraw as the Republican candidate.
So, besides the fact that these folks are power and greed driven idiots, is it possible that “mob boss” Trump has stuff on all these delusional wannabes? They are certainly a pack of lost souls going down a rabbit hole - Republican Party and all.
Yes John, it is highly likely that Trump has Russian intelligence on all of these cowards and when he calls them to a ‘kiss the ring’ event at Mara Largo, he doesn’t have to say a lot when he shows them their file of pictures. They always come back, praising him, And become his cowardly useful idiots.
Tell me/let me understand… do these people really really understand that (if they think things are bad now) they could be the 1st to be thrown in the so-called “camps” he will build and all the 2025 plans? OMG. I really cannot understand that “we the people” do not have a recourse for these atrocities they plan. Our SC is going to allow this. Someone has to have enough clout to DO SOMETHING it is 2024, we have been a Democracy for 250+ years………………🤮
The system held. For this, I am relieved and heartened. Listening to the verdict come down in real time last night, I felt for the first time in quite a long time that maybe, just maybe, we are turning a corner. The verdict, and Trump's "performance" today (and his rabid posts on social media) show evidence of a man in dire straits, desperate, crazed even. We will not be able to shift his core base, but for the rest of us, I am hopeful this is a significant shift in the right direction. Lastly, all respect, gratitude, and admiration for Judge Merchan and the jury -- the true heroes of this story.
Demented - past mid-stage. May I ask that you add Attorney Bragg and his brilliant prosecutorial team and brave witnesses Stormy and Michael. The threat of retaliation was prevalent and they said “we are not afraid.”
Absolutely yes, yes yes. In my haste I did not think to do this, but you are absolutely correct. They are heroes too, most notably Ms. Clifford, who the defence did its best to slut-shame (which caused Nicole Wallace to acknowledge on air that she should not have been referring to Ms. Clifford as a "porn star" but rather as an adult film star.) Thanks for reminding me!!
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I hope this is true, but every single current or former Republican politician or staff needs to speak up Now! The less brave need someone else to get it started.
Trumple Dumple should have done a quick Depends change when it was overloaded, dripping and stinking.........slithered up to the stand and TESTIIFED IN HIS OWN DEFENSE.
Sorry for the bad language, but I didn’t know Congress could field such a team of cry-baby pussies rag-tagging at the tail of the former Pussy-in-Chief. The Confederacy had degenerates like this, called the “fire-eaters” full of bombast and hyperbole, who skedaddled for safety when the shooting started. The bitter Southern troops said they were _invincible_ during peace but _invisible_ during war. Once again, they’ll fool better men to die for their own filthy egos. Young people died, Blue and Grey doesn’t matter.
Ending slavery and racism still merits great sacrifice, but putting our own children six feet under brings no glory.
I don’t agree with that post. The conviction won’t dissuade MAGA cultists but there are ordinary Republicans and Independents who may just decide it is the line they won’t cross. I suspect there are significant numbers in those groups and would be happy to see them vote for President Biden for sure!
I agree. Add dfg being the POTUS who got Roe overturned, Jan 6, owing E. Jean Carroll $83.M + interest, found GUILTY of sexual assault & defamation...I heard Rob Reiner on Ari Melber today say twice that popular vote will be Biden with ten million more votes than 2020.
The more the Trump campaign insists that this is helping him, the more certain I am that they're seeing internals that show that his all-count conviction is deeply hurting his numbers. I'm not a big believer in polls, but they are, so if they're screaming from the rooftops THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, that makes me damn sure they believe it's hurtling downwards rapidly. It's their way of crying, "Don't look up!"
I don't think the verdict will have throngs of undecided voters swinging to trump. It may be a wash, some will swing towards him while others swing away.
One thing that hit me during his rambling speech today was when he said that he couldn't talk about things because of the gag order. " But you can and you should."
Isn't that a violation? Encouraging others to speak for him about things he's not allowed to speak about.
I believe that the guilty verdict will contribute to Trump’s loss in various ways, including his own personal inability to deal with it in an organized and productive way. His mental health is deteriorating before our eyes.
Sentencing is when the pigeons come home to roost in the criminal justice system. A convicted individual's entire life, any good and certainly any prior bad acts (even those not allowed in court on cross-examination of the defendant), along with evidence of their conduct relating to the trial and the system, are arrayed in front of the judge to guide the sentencing decision. There are no strict evidentiary rules or any burden of proof as required during a trial. Guidelines and precedent do play a role, but ultimate discretion on sentencing specifics is generally reserved for the judge. So, while judges like Juan Merchan are often willing to take verbal bullets from the defendants personally, they do take major offense at a defendant attacking the system they represent and the other people in it.
Oldandintheway posted this on on Joyce Vance's substack a couple of days ago.
"If Trump is found guilty, and I was Judge M, I would give Trump a 2 year suspended sentence. The condition would be that he admit that he was found in guilty in a fair trial and that he refrain from saying anything negative about the entire US system of justice. No complaining about any of his legal problems. If he trashes on any judge, jury, prosecutor, court clerk, or FBI, he will go to jail. It’s up to him to restrain himself."
This deals with the issue that "first time" white collar offenders are usually not given jail time.
It also has the great advantage of watching Trump put himself in prison, rather than the judge.
I dunno. Your logic is right. A large part of me LONGS to see him in prison, full stop. Your well reasoned "he admits fair trial, quits trashing courts, etc. -- sounds like he might take some wind out of maga's vindictive sails. Gitmo, maybe? 😁
These aren't my ideas—they were posted on Joyce’s Substack by oldandintheway. But I think they are the best ideas for sentencing available. By making trump behave himself, every single day he will be on trial again in the court of public opinion. Of course, MAGA will scream First Amendment every day. As long as Trump's incarcerated, I don't care if it's the top floor of the Waldorf Astoria—as long as he can't leave. We cannot look like we are persecuting the Dear Leader.
As The Honorable Juan Merchan (could) do a lot of things. To this point, he has been very lenient with djt… we will see soon. Guess we know it will well thought out as he has shown us. We certainly got lucky with him. ⚖️🇺🇸🥰
Ruth, I think Judge Merchan is completely fed up with Trumps blatant disrespect for the rule of law. I think we’re going to see something stiffer than probation (the pokey) and he will deliver a list of ‘you will not’s’ with a warning that one step outside of any one of the orders on the long list of guidelines will mean he returns to the pokey. Heel spurs will regret not going to Vietnam. His life will never be the same after sentencing.
I love Judge M so much, that I am going to start a PAC for Judge Merchan as Being in Charge of the Universe. Judge M realized that as long as Trump was tried, it didn't matter how lenient his behavior toward him was.
Dale, Wow! So Judge Merchan can consider Trump’s threats made to Jack Smith, veiled threats
made to potential jury members, verdicts in E. Jean Carroll’s trials, verdict in the NY fraud trial, the Access Hollywood tape, January 6, other deeds too numerous to mention. Any and all can be considered by Judge Merchan in sentencing?
Following the usual procedure, Merchan will be using what is typically an "open book" on the defendant's (he formally becomes a felon on sentencing) life, physical and mental state as a reference, with chapters contributed by the prosecution as well as the defense. The public also gets to contribute. In addition to a variety of custodial and lesser sentences Merchan can impose directly, there are also what are called "collateral consequences" under NY law which can arise from the sentence, affecting such things as licensure and the ability to conduct business in the state.
May all Truth Social and WSJ readers consider the evidence with the same focus and open-mindedness as that one juror did. I think a good number just might.
I believe it was Jay Kuo or maybe Robert Hubble, someone reputable, who put the full paragraph of that (one) jurors' resonse to the source of news, and he said, in effect, many sourcs, and listed some, including WSJ and Truth Social. He never said it was his only source. It was the MSM that put that incomplete quote up for your hair pulling consumption.
You're right, and I agree it was probably Jay.( I memorize all of Roberts' words.) I'm still optimistic the verdict and a look at the facts will sway some people away from the dark side.
I do not agree…this is noise, deflection, and distraction. 12 jurors figured this out…the voting majority of America will too. And thank you for sharing the potential grounds for appeal and their likelihoods of success. Your analysis carries more weight than most considering your appellate experience. Much appreciated 👏
The rule of law has been the backbone of our democracy. It has worked well in this case. Those senators who would rather pander than stand up to 45 have lost their moral compass. We must stand together to protect our country and ourselves from these evil politicians.
I do *not* believe that this richly-deserved guilty verdict will lead to the election of Trump.
Trump wasn't prosecuted because he was running for president. He was prosecuted because he has committed so many felonies for so many decades, that anything he can be prosecuted about cries out for prosecution.
You could say he selected himself for prosecution.
If Al Capone got out of jail and spat on the sidewalk, he should be prosecuted.
MAGA has been blackmailing us for years saying: “Don't get us really angry!"
Dear MAGA--Don't get ME mad, I am even meaner than you when you attack my country.
We are lean and mean.
But fair.
Yes. Lean and mean with good exercise and diet habits. We follow the rule of law, and are fair.
Speaking for myself, Valarie, not lean, not mean, with not so great exercise and diet habits... I follow the rule of law only when I think it is moral. But fair? We are in complete agreement! 😉😏👍
Right , it was the other way around: he was running for president because he was afraid he'd be prosecuted.
Many people have thought that is true.
Excellent post!
So true -- like an abusive relationship when the battered one is told it is their fault because they made the abuser mad. What a load of crap.
Brava Kathleen! Exactly.
I agree, and while much has been said about how his base has been energized, I don't think enough is being said about the inverse scenario where the conviction energizes the opposition to Trump. There has been a feeling of the inevitability of Trump that has demoralized some who have opposed him, and that's gone now. Some of those people are now ready to fight like hell to prevent him from being elected.
No matter how fired up his base gets, they only have one vote each.
We defeated him in 2020. That was BEFORE the insurrection. Some voters drew the line at that, according to focus groups. Now we also have the felony conviction. Thats not going to help him.
He hasn't gained any voters. He he never has.
Finally, he says he raised $34 million isince the conviction
You know what? I don't believe it. This is an easy lie to tell, to demoralize us, and the actual legal figure doesn't go in the.books for weeks. He could and would make up this figure, and later "forget" to mention it was only a third of that amount.
He lies constantly and this would be an excellent one to give the finger to those who oppose him.
Why does the press presume truth whenever he throws these lies around?
You know what my immediate thought was? That he made up the number of 34 million because it was a number that was in the forefront of his pea-sized "brain". Seriously.
34 just happens to be the number of felonies he was convicted of. A number probably now implanted in his febrile miasma of a brain. Hope Dems can deploy that number in their messaging, non-stop, until he explodes.
I totally agree!
I offered to fund his reelection to the tune of $0.34, but my olive branch was rebuffed.
Those ingrates! HA!
Nicely done. <3
After 34 felony convictions he raises $34 million? What a coincidence.
$34 million says who? His campaign? Don't be so quick as to bite at that bait. Live and learn with this character.
That was my point. The amount the Trump campaign claimed to raise sounds made up to match the number of convictions.
The Magas, especially those in Congress, and the ennabling Media, will go frothy when they learn that Act Blue has been processing gazillions of $34 individual donations.
Exactly - he is a champ at spouting off, usually untruths and exaggerations, but we can be assured things he yaps on about are "bigly" and grossly over-stated.
Like his 35,000 at the Bronx rally. Riiiight. Sure. Steve Cheung says it, and that's what the Media reports.
I refuse to give in to the cynical view that Trump’s conviction in Manhattan is the tipping point that just guaranteed his election. The strident MAGA voices,
most prominently the disgraceful Republican senators and members of Congress-sycophants who are lining up to undermine the justice system are on overdrive trying to convince us of this.
These same disgraceful elected officials are bludgeoning the system-blocking legitimate judicial nominations and protesting Trump’s conviction and his many prosecutions as a pretext for their obstructionism. I think we need a new vocabulary to explain the damage they are doing to our country.
Some of them at least or afraid we will original eventually get around to prosecuting them for their involvement in January 6.
That any sitting U.S. Senator--let alone 8 of them--should lower themselves to sign a statement that they KNOW is untrue, which undermines the courts and judicial system of this country, is absolutely shameful, in my opinion.
Every one of them should be censured. Actually they should be expelled but that requires concurrence of two thirds of the members of the Senate and we will never get that. More's the pity.
Yes each one should be censured. No doubt every damn one of them would be shouting from the rooftops how great the justice system is had the jury found trump not guilty. Just like the election. Had trump won in 2020 they would have been saying all was perfect with the election process.
Exactly, and while we have no idea how many votes he’ll lose due to the conviction, I’m sure he will not gain any because of it.
I truly hope that you are right. Never forget, we are dealing with a cult and a cult leader that cares only for himself. His souless followers will do anything he says.....they know and understand his subliminal messaging.
During the last days of WW2, fanatical Nazis fought to the bitter end, even though it was a lost cause. For sure there will be Maggots that may go farther than lighting themselves on fire or swatting their hit list daily.
I hope not. But I have a friend, a brilliant lawyer, a conservative, who's parroting the entire MAGA line. I fear that if she can be entranced, what's to keep my ignorant brother from bowing down?
Maureen, the books are full of accounts of brilliant folks being brainwashed. The CIA did a study years ago, and I wish I’d kept it because I had a copy, but they had psychological determiners for those folks who could be easily brainwashed. Being less than brilliant was not one of these. I saw the most brilliant man I have ever known swallow the MAGA line and all of the conspiracies entirely. For him, thankfully, that all changed on January 6 when he saw something so egregious and so outside of our mores that allows for peaceful protesting, that it shook him to his core and snapped him out of the cultist trap. Most MAGA, brilliant or not, will not be snapped out of their brainwashed state. If one wonders how this could’ve happened, look no further than Steve Bannon with his psychological warfare skills. He and his ilk have been beating the drum six days a week on their podcasts, repeating the same message prior to the 2016 election, which then was that Hillary was all the things they said in their conspiracies, and they frightened people. Fear is a big determiner in becoming susceptible to being brainwashed. And Bannon, with his psy-ops abilities knows this. No one knows it better than Trump.
Valere: Is his popularity based on a common “grievance” thread by those who experienced childhood grievances and carried that perception through adulthood? And this identify with him so strongly? He has been obsessed with that but now it totally consumes him as he faces not only the final act of political (and possibly financial) defeat/ruin as well as ultimately some form of incarceration after November 5? A formula for a stroke by an overweight 78 yr old w/extraordinary pressures who consumes 12 diet cokes per day? It is likely that Merchan will recognize the political pushback nationwide if he sentences him to home confinement before November 5 and thus wisely delays ultimate sentencing until after the election? What do you think?
That gross Bannon is to blame for so much of this. I wonder what happened to his backers, the Mercers? Cambridge Analytica comes to mind.
She has the same number of votes you do...get your friends to overwhelm her vote power!
That's so right!
So was your “brilliant lawyer” friend MAGA before the trial or did this conviction woo her? Somehow, although I obviously don’t know her, I find it difficult to accept that this person swung her vote after this loathsome grifter was found guilty.
Your brother might have more common sense?
Because the press is in the pocket of the billionaires. Even the vaunted New York Times.
I have been thinking about this lately. Imagine a world where Trump sailed away in the sunset, became a non-issue. He has provided the media, conservative leaning or liberal leaning, with a giant gift - viewership. Clicks. Ratings. A whole lot of viewers will cease to be viewers, or at least not view nearly as much, with him out of the picture. News will get dull instantly with him gone. It is practically a foregone conslusion that coverage of the news the way it is these past few years and maybe longer, is tainted by concerns about ratings. Duh. As it pertains to Trump - the press may want him around to keep up thier profits, and will color their reporting in the interest of just that.
Humph....ESPECIALLY the NYT. Or so I have think on some days.
Last night when they said the donations site went down, my b.s. radar went off - wouldn’t it be a great marketing tool to say it crashed due to all the donations and spur others on. I’ll believe the numbers when I see them.
Absolutely! It got me for a minute- I was discouraged and upset. But I snapped out of it because where did that info come from? Is it verified? And don't we know a few determined trolls could crash a website easily? We cannot do Trump's scare tactics FOR him, folks! We can't run around saying this won't make a dent in him a felony conviction can't hurt him, he's invinveable, blah blah blah.
The man just got convicted of 34 felonies. Its his sky thats falling, not ours!
My thoughts too, Lois.
I don't believe him either. He never tells the truth if the truth makes him looks like a loser.
$34 million... thirty-four million.
Where does this 34 come from?
Gimme some time, it'll come to me.
Actually, press reports I heard were for 35.
We all know trump and his people all lie. I live not far from where he held a rally here in Schnecksville, PA. Trump said there were 30-40,000 people there. I have 2 friends who are PA. State Troopers who told me that they were told to expect 7,000 and there were about 4,000 in attendance. I believe my friends…
Just like those numbers he posted for his rally in the Bronx. He claimed something like 40,000 in attendance, with another 20,000 being turned away for a lack of ‘room’.
The rally was in a giant, open-air public park. I saw a drone shot and it looked like there were maybe 2500 people there. Maybe. And for a boro (the Bronx) that’s 50% Hispanic and 40% Black, there were an awful lot of white faces in that crowd.
Thank you Norm:) LOL
Trump is the Emperor with no clothes. Don’t believe a word he and his supporters say. $34 million? Pfft. His entire adult life has been built on lies. He is a con man. I was born in NYC and raised in NJ. We have always known Trump is a con man. He bankrupted a casino, for goodness sake. His only talent is lying with utter confidence. He has been doing it so long he believes his own BS. This is the beginning of a season of reckoning with that mountain of lies. May the truth at last prevail.
I am a registered Democrat and I have received one text message today asking for money. Then, rather than just deleting my Hotmail junk, I scrolled through it. Numerous emails with the same pleading message. If everyone of his followers paid after receiving numerous messages, maybe it added up??? But we can't believe a word he says unless it's what he's going to do when elected. That I believe.
Whatever the money the candidates collect, what really matters is your vote on voting day. That is priceless.
I am a registered Democrat too, and just counted 30+ email messages asking for money, including 4 from Joe Biden. Some are for local or state Democrats from other states, one is from Mark Hamill on Biden/Harris campaign's behalf. Don't know if that means you're better at locking down your email, or or what?! I get about 3-5 text messages a day also, usually from Biden/Harris campaign directly. I do wonder how truthful his accounts are of how much he is taking in (and how much of it is going toward paying his various legal fees).
I'm a register Independent and received a text message about every two hours from tfg for money, just one today.
Even if $34 million is correct, it amounts to less than 50 cents from each of the 73 million who voted for him. Not exactly a windfall. And I agree, the figure was probably pulled out of thin air.
Well…
That’s not where I think it was pulled from, but I get your drift.
🤣
Prof. Ruth Ben-Ghiat discusses the reaction of Republicans as fascist propaganda. Here is a link. https://lucid.substack.com/p/maga-leader-cult-damage-control-talking
I recommend reading what she has to say and then viewing the link to her video from a brief weekend discussion about Strongmen, such as Trump.
based on his money raising claims I immediately made another donation to the Biden campaign.
There's almost no chance of Trump telling the truth about his fund raising; especially given how convenient the 34 million is. But, it doesn't really matter. The only people giving him money are the MAGA faithful that were already voting for him.
Only people who believe Trump is being persecuted are going to be outraged by his conviction. Those people aren't voting for anyone else. It's a long time to November. It's unlikely that there's going to be a large number of people still outraged about this who are only voting because of it. He's not going to pick up any significant number of new voters and is going to alienate far more.
I completely agree. Even his small donors have been flagging lately, according to sources I trust. Maybe they'll get fired up, but he'll to keep that plate spinning constantly.
I hope that "Convicted Felon Donald Trump" is his new name in the mouths of all who oppose him.
He's taught me a few things.: the value of repetition, for one thing. And casting doubt on things, vaguely, and repeating the doubt.
I think the conviction is going to sink in over time. And ads asking "do you really want a convicted felon in the WH? Representing America on the world stage?"
He has some street smarts. I think he knows he just lost.
Agree
Susan Nathiel, remember the crowd size at his inauguration?! He thrives on alternative facts.
@ Dean Gavney. "Energized." Stock market up more than 500 points.
Register Democrats to raise the stock market. Short Trump and prosper!
https://www.fieldteam6.org/
Trump depends on the very basic psychology that says, if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it's true. To a large degree, this has proven to be true, not only in building the MAGA cult but in the breathtaking public statements being made by high level Republicans in Congress and governorships that parrot Trump's lies about being persecuted by Joe Biden.
Amen Dean💙
If nothing else it will hopefully sway a few mushbrained 'independents' from giving us a repeat of 2016 or 2000
I totally agree with Dean. This should be the last straw for those trying to find any way not to vote for him. In reality they shouldn't need another reason but I still believe that people will realize that they can't use both hands to hold their nose and still mark their ballot and vote.
Good thinking Sooz Hall, watch the first 12 minutes of tonight’s PBS News Hour: https://youtu.be/MoFtdW0oZ54?si=-O8w73qkJ0tdOqad
A small sample of former Trump voters did a focus group which Laura Barron-Lopez reported on was discussed. Fascinating and somewhat encouraging even though only 9 people.
John, thx for the PBS poll about voting attitudes toward trump if found guilty. Fascinating. Wish it were much larger a sample, but still interesting. So it looks like the small percentage Republican voters who his guilt verdict made a difference weren't really trump voters - just rebellious. Hope they keep polling on this issue as time goes on but with many more participants. Good info.
Thanks, John, though your link goes to the May 29 program. Here's the link to go directly to tonight's (May 31) program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6sHVWB46ew
As you wrote, somewhat encouraging even though only 9 people.
Looking forward to watching PBS Newshour and David & Jonathan (although I really watch to see how David portrays this news; I've always appreciated his and Mark Shields' viewpoints but haven't warmed up to Jonathan's so far.)
You have more faith that he (Trump) won't be elected than I do ..
Well, Ivan I know what you mean. Sometimes our struggles do simply take faith and perseverance to get the job done. I certainly can't say that my small achievements in life are due to me alone. They always took faith. Take heart, and do what you can.
Yes Bruce. Joyce it is Substack two or three postings about with the words “Do not despair.”
We are on the right side of the law, we are on the right side of Justice. We are on the right side of preserving our beautiful democracy. I have no way of knowing this, but I do believe with my soul that there are more of us than ‘them.’ We need to vote Blue and encourage friends, family and neighbors to do so as well. Postcards!
Remember the Moral Majority? They were neither.
Motive? YES! Intent? YES! Beyond reasonable doubt? YES, YES, and YES!
"Bailiff, take him down".
I ain't buyin' it either (that the conviction assured former guy's election). It's absurd on its face. We're supposed to believe that so many people who weren't hard-core MAGA cultists before suddenly became so in such numbers as to guarantee at least an electoral college win if not a popular-vote win? That vast numbers of heretofore undecided or "soft" GOP voters, thus at least potentially rational and with some sort of moral grounding, see a conviction after what appeared to be a completely by-the-book trial as a reason to flip from some degree of thoughtfulness to extremist obeisance to a felon they weren't thrilled about before?
Further: Just as there is some percentage of the populace who will buy any product no matter how useless or ridiculous, so is there a percentage that will believe any lie no matter how preposterous and follow any leader no matter how obviously corrupt and evil. I don't have up-to-the-minute poll data and put almost zero credence in polls anyway, but it seems that around 25% of the population are MAGA cultists who will dismiss or even embrace former guy's conviction. Let's call it 33%, for discussion purposes. Let's also say, without getting into the weeds of which polls stand up to scrutiny and which are obviously propaganda instruments, Biden has somewhere around 45-50% voter support.
That means about 17-23% of the electorate fall somewhere in between the MAGA cult and the Biden camp. Based on the total number of votes cast for president in 2020, that means that somewhere around 26.4 million and 35.7 million voters would have to go from Undecided or Never Trump to Full MAGA. Again for discussion purposes, let's say half of those voters would decide to vote MAGA for their own reasons apart from the felony conviction. That still leaves about 13.2-17.8 million voters for whom the conviction would be the tipping point into MAGA-land.
Even considering defections, new voters, perversions of the Electoral College, etc., the claim that the conviction sealed the deal for the former guy doesn't come close to passing the first-level sniff test. I immediately tossed it into the MAGA Whistling Past the Graveyard bin, with a copy into the Mass Media Clickbait bin.
The two keys to the election will be: (1) getting the message across to that 17-23% that the choice is between democracy and fascism, not between a Democrat and a Republican or a liberal and a conservative; and (2) getting people to vote (registering new or lapsed voters, helping voters get to the polls).
Nothing less than our democracy, as bumbling and inefficient as it can be, is at stake. We cannot afford to fail in our efforts to stimulate voting in larger numbers than ever before. Phone banking, writing postcards, registering voters, canvassing and door-knocking, talking civilly with friends and family, being a shuttle driver on Election Day -- whatever it takes, DO IT.
I so hope you're right, that intelligence and propriety is still the way for the majority of us.
I agree with you. I say, Amen.
Neither do I.
Trump will fail and he’ll take the GOP down with him.
Peter, I think you are right on both counts. Five more months of his word salads and his grievances is already a tired act. Not a winning formula. Major Trump fatigue will set in by November.
This man has done more to divide our country than we realize. supported by power hungry incompetent minions with zero or severely limited leadership skills and no ethics. Trump has been a Bull(y) in a china shop since 2016, Violated the emolument rules, stole the 2016 Election from the people, enriched his family and associates. His thievery and grift is astounding. No morals, ethics or humility. A pawn of the ultra rich, right wing, white nationalists for whom everything is still not enough. I’m thoroughly disgusted and deeply disappointed with anyone who thinks he has what it takes to lead our country through our national & global challenges.
Apologies for the rant 😝
No apology needed. I feel the way you do, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Now he is literally halting the work of the gov't based on the statement signed by some jackass Republican senators. Very very scary. I think his v old unfilled emotional needs are like magnets to people w similar needs. The bond is that strong and that delusional. These people have lost touch w reality. I hope Merchan will impose incarceration based on his crime affecting the outcome of a frigging presidential election!!
Trump is a narcissist. He is afraid of being found out as the unfortunate person he is. He is afraid of humiliation.
Surgeons save lives by getting the pus out. There’s more pus in there than I ever expected. Stay in there, and the pus will all come out under hot lights and cold steel. Surgery requires diligence, resolve and a strong stomach. So does American citizenship.
Yeah, in “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, it’s clear that the timidity of the constitutionalists in Germany, especially within the Army, led to Hitler’s full seizure of power. Nazis never polled more than 37%, a very MAGA-like number. The billionaire industrialists thought they could use/control him … they were wrong. I’m only 1/3rd of the way through the book, at the point in early March 1938 where Austria was invaded. But most of what I wanted to learn about Hitler’s rise to power has been covered, including the flaccid response of France to the re-occupation of the Rhineland, when they failed to call his bluff. Much different now, but the current use of lies and propaganda really echoes the past.
You’re int the middle of some really important history. Say thanks to Bill Shirer for me. He’s a light of wisdom for all of us.
I agree, but you forgot Putin puppet.
I appreciate your “rant.” Thank you for posting it!
Spot on. Rants are important to get the ugly out of our system. Breathe, eat, sip, and rant again.
“We are in this together.”
It is remarkable that the words you use to describe the “high end” supporters of Trump echo the words of historians writing about the rise of NAZISM. This is not a direct correlation. But it does bring to mind that history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Great rant! You nailed it!
I hope you are correct. I have concerns..
Concerns, yes. I try to convert my concerns into postcards to register voters. It's a big relief to me that this man who has been actively tormenting so many people for so long has actually been held to account by a jury. That's also energy for postcards...
I agree. I have sent postcards encouraging people to vote twice to Georgia and once to Kentucky. ( I am 3 for 3 in the win column!) I am now working on postcards for Arizona. I contribute to as many candidates as I can. We must defeat the GOP!
Vote Blue!
Arizona is especially important as it’s a delegation that might be flipped to majority Dems. That will matter if the presidential election is close enough for corrupt Alito to try to push it to the House.
People can vote twice in Georgia?
No, but Ann sent postcards to Georgia 2 times -- or are you putting us on?!
Ha! I’ve not only had a little more pep in my step today, but was writing my postcards with renewed zeal and determination.
Same Joan! We do not need to live a fear based life. We are on the right side of democracy, the right side of justice, and we can challenge and confront with our postcards!!💟
Hello, Joan! I see that the “herders”are well represented here.
I do the same. Writing more today!
Me too. I fell asleep at 10 am the night of #OrangeTurd was first elected. I woke up. to MSNBC the next a.m. -- what a huge gut-punch to find out that horrible "person" was our POTUS-elect.
Worst. Morning. Ever.
Oh boy! Do I ever remember the election coming in & how nauseous I became! Never want that feeling again! Never‼️
Election results
I made the mistake of turning on the tv about 11 pm that night. I was unable to sleep the rest of the night.....
Why????
Because the dumbasses of America had just elected the dumbest ass in America to be president.
Oh, please pray this is so. Let’s not be afraid of his “base” and/or people that put out such threats to anyone… the Jurists must be protected. I would put nothing past Magats. It has been stated that (possibly) some of them may look like they are for him, but in the voting booth, alone, may not happen. I hope for that, too. Why would anyone want more of these do-nothing but make trouble, in-our-face liars. We are at our capacity… 🇺🇸🥲
Thank you Ruth:) We do not need to feel threatened or live fear-based lives. I’m feeling better as I write postcards, plan to join the women’s march in August. And I have noticed I may be speaking a bit more loudly lately as I challenge and confront the nonsense. I know for sure that I am increasing my numbers of confrontations. If you don’t confront them, they stand as acceptable statements. I was presented with one of Trump‘s misinformation twisted lies last night, that the NY legislator made a law just for E. Jean Carroll to use against Trump. I responded quickly and vociferously: the law, The Adult Survivors Act, in my understanding was in the works to give voice to children - now adult - survivors who suffered sexual abuse from Catholic priests. E. Jean filed some six months after the one year window opened. It takes patience to the nth degree to confront, and challenge and confront these nonsense lies over and over and over. I’ve made my own decision on what to do when I hear these lies and that’s up to every single one of us as we stand on the right side of the law. I’m not shutting up. I full well realize that each time I confront (almost always gently) that a friend may be ‘miffed’ over what I say and I also know that I might not make a bit of difference: but it truly is how we ‘run the race.’ We are almost to the wire and we will reach November 5 by not hiding and passing the ‘face test’ in the mirror. Our democracy is more important than having false friendships.
I just want Trump to go away forever. If I counted how many times I have to hear his name on the TV, I bet it would have been millions by now. We cannot watch 10 minutes of TV without a mention of him.🤮
Ruth I agree. Especially after what happened to Paul Pelosi.
The GOP (Gutless Opportunistic Parasites) deserves to be dismantled and thrown on to a trash pile! I have to wonder how all those elected to office who are lawyers are allowed to keep their law licenses considering how they denigrated the whole justice system with their remarks about the trump trial. The whole damn bunch whether they are lawyers or not deserve to be ousted from office. They are making a mockery of our democratic republic! Had they had a smidge of self respect trump would have been thrown out long ago.
Diana, I similarly am amazed that so many of these Congressmen are graduates of Harvard and Yale and the like. My opinion of these highly-esteemed universities has plummeted!
Love your description of the GOP. Even though not all are magats, I still don't hear many of them speaking up.
Diana! What a stunningly perfect description! Brava!
Well, Dianna, you said it all. We are so tired of the lies, they are so degrading. I just can’t imagine that if people don’t reject him. We cannot believe any “r”/“maga” and the MSM is about as bad. Fox really needs to be held accountable (somehow) pure bold-faced LIARS. UGH.
That’s my expectation. They deserve to fail big time.
From your mouth to God's ear!
He WILL fail because my prayers are very powerful.
"Senator Lee said... “I wouldn’t hire that person, wouldn’t want to be associated with that person … I certainly don’t think I would feel comfortable hiring that person to be the leader of the free world.” But Lee has endorsed Trump in this election and apparently has no intention of backing away."
Jesus' biggest pet peeve was hypocrisy....
Unfortunately very monied men what Trump elected again.
The GOP went down when they embraced him before the 2016 election. No matter how absurd his plans are or how horrible he is at trashing people they absolve him. He is a big very loud, nothing who has accomplished little but hurt much and many.
Well, now we know who the EIGHT BIGGEST MORONS IN THE SENATE ARE, as if we didn't already. Wow: think how history will admire their tenacious hold on lies and stupidity! What gifts!
We’ve long known that our Tennessee Senator is a moron, second only to an Alabama Senator whose residence is Florida.
Senator HomeEc, from TN. She really is a moron, and as crooked as they come.
Vote for Gloria Johnson!!💙💟💙💟💙
Robert, hate to arm wrestle, but that makes Mike Lee somewhere such as third. Could we please have Tuberville and Lee tied for first?
Wait, wait. What about RoJo from Wisconsin? He’s long had my vote for the Dumbest. That is, until ‘Coach’ arrived on the scene, somehow managing to represent 2 states at the same time.
I'm betting that our junior Texas senator is one of them.
It would be fair game to get going on recall efforts. Their open letter clearly states they are refusing to do their job - they were elected, supposedly, to work for the good of their constituents, not to bow down to a convicted felon. Shame on them for attacking our system of laws, of governance.
Unfortunately, there is no recall procedure for senators, more's the pity.
Indeed. So it’s off to the ballot box we go!!!!!!
there's impeachment, isn't there?
Over the past several years I have and continue to be surprised at Marco Rubio. He was once considered a rising star of the conservative Republicans but he has shown himself to be a MAGA follower not a leader.
I read a post on Threads...social media...yesterday...(not exact quote, but close) "Trump could shoot Marco Rubio on 5th avenue and Rubio would compliment him for his use of the 2nd amendment."
Sad but true. Just like Ted Cruz.
It is beyond incredible that so many of these folks are coming off to this reader as DAMN FOOLS! Nikki Haley is the most recent to disgrace herself by moving into the “Of Course, I’m going to Vote For Trump” class of power crazed idiots. Just look back at all their earlier statements about Trump; everything from he’s incompetent to he’s a psychopath only to make a full turn to embrace him as the party leader. Thank goodness, Larry Hogan spoke out after Trump’s “guilty as charged” day in court to say he should withdraw as the Republican candidate.
So, besides the fact that these folks are power and greed driven idiots, is it possible that “mob boss” Trump has stuff on all these delusional wannabes? They are certainly a pack of lost souls going down a rabbit hole - Republican Party and all.
Yes John, it is highly likely that Trump has Russian intelligence on all of these cowards and when he calls them to a ‘kiss the ring’ event at Mara Largo, he doesn’t have to say a lot when he shows them their file of pictures. They always come back, praising him, And become his cowardly useful idiots.
Tell me/let me understand… do these people really really understand that (if they think things are bad now) they could be the 1st to be thrown in the so-called “camps” he will build and all the 2025 plans? OMG. I really cannot understand that “we the people” do not have a recourse for these atrocities they plan. Our SC is going to allow this. Someone has to have enough clout to DO SOMETHING it is 2024, we have been a Democracy for 250+ years………………🤮
Rubio has always gone whichever way the wind blows.
The Lindsay Graham of his generation.
Missing: Josh Hawley, Lindsay Graham, Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst to make it a dozen.
That's a never-ending contest with about a dozen front-runners at any time.
The system held. For this, I am relieved and heartened. Listening to the verdict come down in real time last night, I felt for the first time in quite a long time that maybe, just maybe, we are turning a corner. The verdict, and Trump's "performance" today (and his rabid posts on social media) show evidence of a man in dire straits, desperate, crazed even. We will not be able to shift his core base, but for the rest of us, I am hopeful this is a significant shift in the right direction. Lastly, all respect, gratitude, and admiration for Judge Merchan and the jury -- the true heroes of this story.
Demented - past mid-stage. May I ask that you add Attorney Bragg and his brilliant prosecutorial team and brave witnesses Stormy and Michael. The threat of retaliation was prevalent and they said “we are not afraid.”
Absolutely yes, yes yes. In my haste I did not think to do this, but you are absolutely correct. They are heroes too, most notably Ms. Clifford, who the defence did its best to slut-shame (which caused Nicole Wallace to acknowledge on air that she should not have been referring to Ms. Clifford as a "porn star" but rather as an adult film star.) Thanks for reminding me!!
YES!! Well said!👍
Carol, I had exactly the same feelings while listening to the 34 guilty verdicts yesterday. Our system of Justice worked!
Being on criminal trial would be rough on anyone. Being stripped of one's facade of celebrity and immunity from accountability worse.
Maybe that's why he didn't slather on the orange makeup for his incoherent press op.
I can understand a bit a resolute loyalty to a political belief, Alito. But even you have to see the danger in this man's flaws.
He really is ona severe mental declin.
I still have faith that in the end there will be enough voters who won't be able to vote for a felon.
But we must help them get the polls and do so with good messaging.
John: please go to www.TurnUP.US and support brilliant Harvard students who are registering tens of thousands of high school seniors and community college students ONLY in competitive congressional districts to save fundamental abortion rights! They can win this election; please contribute generously as it is tax deductible! Thank you
Thanks for this, I'll donate. We hosted 2 young Obama volunteers in our home in Detroit in 2008. We've downsized, so this year I'm post-carding.
Many thanks Michigan is unquestionably a “competitive” state! With your help, TurnUp will be registering hundreds of thousands of Community College students in 348 of those otherwise overlooked local colleges but importantly ONLY in competitive congressional districts! These students are brilliant and their use social media in order to focus on voter registration and TURNOUT is absolutely brilliant! Please help them folks?
You should provide links
Thanks. Did and will look into supporting them.
Done!
I hope this is true, but every single current or former Republican politician or staff needs to speak up Now! The less brave need someone else to get it started.
I suppose Trump believes that "the best defense is a good offense". But he doesn't have one - he's just offensive.
Well said!
Trumple Dumple should have done a quick Depends change when it was overloaded, dripping and stinking.........slithered up to the stand and TESTIIFED IN HIS OWN DEFENSE.
I would hope voters realize that a convicted felon should not be president, for any number of reasons.
He never should have been in the White House in the first place.
I agree but will they realize?
OY…I would hope so
Remind them in a postcard--best 60 cents ever spent.
Provide links
Excellent PS on a post card sent to Democratic voters....
Eight far right Republican Senators signed that letter. Eight. Thats all.
Yet they have the nerve to refer to themselves as the “Republican conference.”
The be accurate, they should identify themselves as the “Wackadoo Conference”
Sorry for the bad language, but I didn’t know Congress could field such a team of cry-baby pussies rag-tagging at the tail of the former Pussy-in-Chief. The Confederacy had degenerates like this, called the “fire-eaters” full of bombast and hyperbole, who skedaddled for safety when the shooting started. The bitter Southern troops said they were _invincible_ during peace but _invisible_ during war. Once again, they’ll fool better men to die for their own filthy egos. Young people died, Blue and Grey doesn’t matter.
Ending slavery and racism still merits great sacrifice, but putting our own children six feet under brings no glory.
I don’t agree with that post. The conviction won’t dissuade MAGA cultists but there are ordinary Republicans and Independents who may just decide it is the line they won’t cross. I suspect there are significant numbers in those groups and would be happy to see them vote for President Biden for sure!
I agree. Add dfg being the POTUS who got Roe overturned, Jan 6, owing E. Jean Carroll $83.M + interest, found GUILTY of sexual assault & defamation...I heard Rob Reiner on Ari Melber today say twice that popular vote will be Biden with ten million more votes than 2020.
The more the Trump campaign insists that this is helping him, the more certain I am that they're seeing internals that show that his all-count conviction is deeply hurting his numbers. I'm not a big believer in polls, but they are, so if they're screaming from the rooftops THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, that makes me damn sure they believe it's hurtling downwards rapidly. It's their way of crying, "Don't look up!"
Spin cycle on overdrive for nearly a decade, truly disgusting, so much criming by the Greedy Oppressive Perpetraitors.
I like your GOP description. Mine is Gutless Opportunistic Parasites
Bravo! I sometimes substitute in Paedophiles or Predators, when appropriate.
Excellent!
Ha Susan:) This is wonderful.
I don't think the verdict will have throngs of undecided voters swinging to trump. It may be a wash, some will swing towards him while others swing away.
One thing that hit me during his rambling speech today was when he said that he couldn't talk about things because of the gag order. " But you can and you should."
Isn't that a violation? Encouraging others to speak for him about things he's not allowed to speak about.
I'm sure glad the jury found him guilty!
I believe that the guilty verdict will contribute to Trump’s loss in various ways, including his own personal inability to deal with it in an organized and productive way. His mental health is deteriorating before our eyes.
Sentencing is when the pigeons come home to roost in the criminal justice system. A convicted individual's entire life, any good and certainly any prior bad acts (even those not allowed in court on cross-examination of the defendant), along with evidence of their conduct relating to the trial and the system, are arrayed in front of the judge to guide the sentencing decision. There are no strict evidentiary rules or any burden of proof as required during a trial. Guidelines and precedent do play a role, but ultimate discretion on sentencing specifics is generally reserved for the judge. So, while judges like Juan Merchan are often willing to take verbal bullets from the defendants personally, they do take major offense at a defendant attacking the system they represent and the other people in it.
Oldandintheway posted this on on Joyce Vance's substack a couple of days ago.
"If Trump is found guilty, and I was Judge M, I would give Trump a 2 year suspended sentence. The condition would be that he admit that he was found in guilty in a fair trial and that he refrain from saying anything negative about the entire US system of justice. No complaining about any of his legal problems. If he trashes on any judge, jury, prosecutor, court clerk, or FBI, he will go to jail. It’s up to him to restrain himself."
This deals with the issue that "first time" white collar offenders are usually not given jail time.
It also has the great advantage of watching Trump put himself in prison, rather than the judge.
I dunno. Your logic is right. A large part of me LONGS to see him in prison, full stop. Your well reasoned "he admits fair trial, quits trashing courts, etc. -- sounds like he might take some wind out of maga's vindictive sails. Gitmo, maybe? 😁
These aren't my ideas—they were posted on Joyce’s Substack by oldandintheway. But I think they are the best ideas for sentencing available. By making trump behave himself, every single day he will be on trial again in the court of public opinion. Of course, MAGA will scream First Amendment every day. As long as Trump's incarcerated, I don't care if it's the top floor of the Waldorf Astoria—as long as he can't leave. We cannot look like we are persecuting the Dear Leader.
Good plan. It gives Trump the keys to the kingdom.
Did you mean the keys to the clink?
As The Honorable Juan Merchan (could) do a lot of things. To this point, he has been very lenient with djt… we will see soon. Guess we know it will well thought out as he has shown us. We certainly got lucky with him. ⚖️🇺🇸🥰
Ruth, I think Judge Merchan is completely fed up with Trumps blatant disrespect for the rule of law. I think we’re going to see something stiffer than probation (the pokey) and he will deliver a list of ‘you will not’s’ with a warning that one step outside of any one of the orders on the long list of guidelines will mean he returns to the pokey. Heel spurs will regret not going to Vietnam. His life will never be the same after sentencing.
I love Judge M so much, that I am going to start a PAC for Judge Merchan as Being in Charge of the Universe. Judge M realized that as long as Trump was tried, it didn't matter how lenient his behavior toward him was.
Good news that. Hadn’t known there was such broad scope for the judge’s decision on sentencing.
I am not certain that he does. Nor do I think he reads comments on Substack!
Dale, Wow! So Judge Merchan can consider Trump’s threats made to Jack Smith, veiled threats
made to potential jury members, verdicts in E. Jean Carroll’s trials, verdict in the NY fraud trial, the Access Hollywood tape, January 6, other deeds too numerous to mention. Any and all can be considered by Judge Merchan in sentencing?
Following the usual procedure, Merchan will be using what is typically an "open book" on the defendant's (he formally becomes a felon on sentencing) life, physical and mental state as a reference, with chapters contributed by the prosecution as well as the defense. The public also gets to contribute. In addition to a variety of custodial and lesser sentences Merchan can impose directly, there are also what are called "collateral consequences" under NY law which can arise from the sentence, affecting such things as licensure and the ability to conduct business in the state.
May all Truth Social and WSJ readers consider the evidence with the same focus and open-mindedness as that one juror did. I think a good number just might.
I believe it was Jay Kuo or maybe Robert Hubble, someone reputable, who put the full paragraph of that (one) jurors' resonse to the source of news, and he said, in effect, many sourcs, and listed some, including WSJ and Truth Social. He never said it was his only source. It was the MSM that put that incomplete quote up for your hair pulling consumption.
You're right, and I agree it was probably Jay.( I memorize all of Roberts' words.) I'm still optimistic the verdict and a look at the facts will sway some people away from the dark side.
I think it was Jay. Anything to do with the law that didn’t come from Joyce, Jay would have the next most reliable analysis…
Yes, it was Jay. I remember because he said he read those sources too.
Feel free to call it trash social. ☺️
Great observation MaryB!
I do not agree…this is noise, deflection, and distraction. 12 jurors figured this out…the voting majority of America will too. And thank you for sharing the potential grounds for appeal and their likelihoods of success. Your analysis carries more weight than most considering your appellate experience. Much appreciated 👏
The rule of law has been the backbone of our democracy. It has worked well in this case. Those senators who would rather pander than stand up to 45 have lost their moral compass. We must stand together to protect our country and ourselves from these evil politicians.