During weeks like this one, we can all be forgiven for wondering whether civil discourse is even possible in this country anymore. Maybe this is who we are, a country where people with different views need to be barricaded? If you know me, you know I reject that notion (although the imagery here, ahead of Marjorie Taylor Greene’s New York rally on Tuesday, is fascinating). We’re living through a wave of Republican politicians, and even some liberal commentators, calling Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg’s indictment of the former president political. But it isn’t. We’ve discussed the solid legal basis for the indictment here and will continue to do so. We need to continue to do that with our friends and families, who may be influenced by some of the former president’s rhetoric as well.
Joyce, you can see this clearly. I can see it. Others can see it too; but refuse to accept for whatever reason. It is comforting to know that someone with your legal knowledge can help us stay on track. Keep up the good work. The situation may seem hopeless but I am going to keep my head up. You are appreciated!
I don’t see things as hopeless as much as it appears so which includes a cloud of noise (disinformation, lies, badgering) that most of us understand is a fear campaign directed to the most vulnerable. Our common purpose can find a way through this. I believe in what Joyce is saying to us today.
When you can’t argue the law, you argue the facts. When you can’t argue the law or the facts, you pound the table. Trump and his attorneys have started pounding the table. Excellent point Joyce!
So true. When my sister, Democrat, said that Dems are so stupid for going with this (relatively "weaker" case) first, I had to remind her that this isn't a strategy. Cases are ready when they're ready.
He should relax and enjoy his presumption of innocence time. Discovery time is coming!
The Dems aren't bringing the case(s). That must be painful for your sister to buy into that concept. They don't "arrange the menu the venue the seating!" (Sorry, on a Hamilton kick.
If it helps, I also see some reporting that makes "Trump judges and Dem judges" distinctions. I won't say there aren't a few "loose Cannons" but in the majority of Trump cases, at least at the appeals level, decisions haven't been skewed by that.
Even SCOTUS blows off the Defendant of the United States' appeals. (DOTUS?)
There's also the pesky matter of different jurisdictions. A case being brought in NY does not preclude the possibility of one being brought in GA, or DC, or anywhere else.
I thought it was a good strategy to go with the lesser case first and get all of the outrage expelled so that there's nothing left to say when the meatier cases make their appearance. It also gauged public reaction so as to be better prepared the next time. Which looks like Georgia soon?
There is no over-arching prosecutorial entity scheduling the prosecutions of Trump crimes. These are independent prosecutors workin on their own time lines. I fear that talk of a "strategy" feeds into paranoid MAGA delusions such as attributing Bragg's decision to prosecute to an imaginary puppet master. Bragg was first out of the gate because his case was ready.
I appreciate the distinction you are making, however, as with Comey back in '16, considerations of political fallout aren't uncommon. We see that all the time in media speculation about how true "civil war" talk might become, and if there is a real danger to society in actions taken by various entities. You're right about my use of the word strategy, though -- not the best choice.
I hope you explained to her that the Dems are going with this weaker case is not correct. It's true that DA Bragg is a Dem, but Joe Biden and the Dems in the Legislature, and even the Dem Governor of NY had nothing to do with his decision.
It is noteworthy that MTG's "rally" lasted exactly 10.5 minutes, before she turned and ran back to her giant SUV for safety. The New York crowds know how to silence a liar.
They were just giving MTG some of that famous NY hospitality. You'd figure with all the screaming she done to president Biden that turnabout is fair play!!
Didn't see dark Brandon turn tail and run!! Better luck her senior year, right?
I recall a video of her calling a journalist who questioned her a coward. I always thought that was quite rich since she had her entourage around her. Same thing here. If you have this on video, please post it on social media calling her a coward absconding to her limo.
The house should pursue it anyway. Expose him for what he is. You never know what may change before it eventually comes up for a vote. Large bodies move slowly.
If the republicans can attempt to remove a judge overseeing one of Trumps many charges because of a $35 contribution to democratic causes the democrats can begin an investigation into Thomas.
Impeachment requires a majority vote of the House. Conviction requires 2/3 of the Senate. InJustice Thomas deserves to be removed, but it won’t happen.
Large bodies move slowly. It is entirely possible that the composition of both the House and the Senate could change before this ever came before either body for a vote. It certainly won't happen if the process is not started.
A Supreme Court Justice is a lifetime appointment. Vote blue and gain control of the House. There is an election in 2024. An investigation will take a long time and if we work hard enough it may not be a Republican controlled House.
Like try to get away w/all of his and his wife’s crap. Sure, things are just fine aren’t they. HE needs to go NOW... this is beyond disgusting. Grrrrrrr
I am celebrating my 80th birthday today. I am a close observer of government and politics. My Masters is in Political Science. I am retired from 30 years of public service employment. In my lifetime, I have never seen anything like the current conflict between fact and opinion and between right and wrong. It is certainly not the United States that I expected to live in today. I will continue to try to do my best to be a good citizen and keep my chin up.
Knitting pictures, too, please. Bonus for knitting with chickens! I value the reminders that we’re in this together. Thanks for your clear explanation of these complex issues.
Dear Joyce - YOU are such a force in helping us all feel strong and hopeful - PLEASE "keep on keepin on" as we would say in the "good ole days" . Looking forward to this weeks podcast - THANKS for being YOU!! smooch up those sexy chickens ;-)
I reject the view that those among us with different views are best physically separated from one another. Barricades, red and blue states, whatever form that separation involves. It’s not a sustainable position.
Hi, Victoria. The phenomena of being trashed by those you thought were “people from your own party” ... wow. That is a thing. it is real. and it needs to be noticed and named.
My son Matthew shared this article on wokeness and what it means. It’s a slog; being UK based, some references don’t translate w/o research. But the gist is there. People get to be who they really are. Performative displays of solidarity that ignore nuance of thought or questions or opinion ... that is cultic behavior. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/
We get to live our lives, learn. Believe, take in new thoughts, develop new understandings. Trashing one another as we invest in learning and engaging? That is a suppression tactic. It’s oppressive. It’s group think. On the way to cultic. Not good.
Joyce, you can see this clearly. I can see it. Others can see it too; but refuse to accept for whatever reason. It is comforting to know that someone with your legal knowledge can help us stay on track. Keep up the good work. The situation may seem hopeless but I am going to keep my head up. You are appreciated!
I don’t see things as hopeless as much as it appears so which includes a cloud of noise (disinformation, lies, badgering) that most of us understand is a fear campaign directed to the most vulnerable. Our common purpose can find a way through this. I believe in what Joyce is saying to us today.
One or two chicken pictures would help.
I absolutely agree. Those pictures always lift my spirits, especially when Joyce cuddles one of her birds.
I came for the civil discourse; I stay for the chickens.
It's true ::))
When you can’t argue the law, you argue the facts. When you can’t argue the law or the facts, you pound the table. Trump and his attorneys have started pounding the table. Excellent point Joyce!
👏👏👏👏👏
So true. When my sister, Democrat, said that Dems are so stupid for going with this (relatively "weaker" case) first, I had to remind her that this isn't a strategy. Cases are ready when they're ready.
He should relax and enjoy his presumption of innocence time. Discovery time is coming!
The Dems aren't bringing the case(s). That must be painful for your sister to buy into that concept. They don't "arrange the menu the venue the seating!" (Sorry, on a Hamilton kick.
If it helps, I also see some reporting that makes "Trump judges and Dem judges" distinctions. I won't say there aren't a few "loose Cannons" but in the majority of Trump cases, at least at the appeals level, decisions haven't been skewed by that.
Even SCOTUS blows off the Defendant of the United States' appeals. (DOTUS?)
Love DOTUS
There's also the pesky matter of different jurisdictions. A case being brought in NY does not preclude the possibility of one being brought in GA, or DC, or anywhere else.
I thought it was a good strategy to go with the lesser case first and get all of the outrage expelled so that there's nothing left to say when the meatier cases make their appearance. It also gauged public reaction so as to be better prepared the next time. Which looks like Georgia soon?
There is no over-arching prosecutorial entity scheduling the prosecutions of Trump crimes. These are independent prosecutors workin on their own time lines. I fear that talk of a "strategy" feeds into paranoid MAGA delusions such as attributing Bragg's decision to prosecute to an imaginary puppet master. Bragg was first out of the gate because his case was ready.
I appreciate the distinction you are making, however, as with Comey back in '16, considerations of political fallout aren't uncommon. We see that all the time in media speculation about how true "civil war" talk might become, and if there is a real danger to society in actions taken by various entities. You're right about my use of the word strategy, though -- not the best choice.
I hope you explained to her that the Dems are going with this weaker case is not correct. It's true that DA Bragg is a Dem, but Joe Biden and the Dems in the Legislature, and even the Dem Governor of NY had nothing to do with his decision.
It is noteworthy that MTG's "rally" lasted exactly 10.5 minutes, before she turned and ran back to her giant SUV for safety. The New York crowds know how to silence a liar.
Hopefully some of that energy woke up her backwards mind to the idea that we all don’t agree with her hateful B.S.
Really? I doubt that.
They were just giving MTG some of that famous NY hospitality. You'd figure with all the screaming she done to president Biden that turnabout is fair play!!
Didn't see dark Brandon turn tail and run!! Better luck her senior year, right?
Didn't know that. Bravo, NYC!
I recall a video of her calling a journalist who questioned her a coward. I always thought that was quite rich since she had her entourage around her. Same thing here. If you have this on video, please post it on social media calling her a coward absconding to her limo.
Thank you. I will never give up. Your civility rubs off on me, and I go to it when I start to "lose it".
Today's news tells me it is time to impeach Thomas.
Today’s Senate wouldn’t convict.
The house should pursue it anyway. Expose him for what he is. You never know what may change before it eventually comes up for a vote. Large bodies move slowly.
It would happen only if the Democratic Party gains House Majority in 2024. No Republican Speaker would bring charges IMHO.
Investigations into Thomas should begin immediately.
The current Senate Judiciary Committee, Dem-controlled, can investigate now.
I may be wrong but aren’t they a paper tiger?
If the republicans can attempt to remove a judge overseeing one of Trumps many charges because of a $35 contribution to democratic causes the democrats can begin an investigation into Thomas.
All proceedings start with an investigtion. If they uncover something, that can put pressure on the House to impeach.
Here is something that tiger can sink it's teeth into.
Yes, it should be investigated by the Dem-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee.
Today’s House would not vote for impeachment for that matter.
You think Manchin and Sinema would vote against impeaching him? Maybe it’s a 2/3 magin to impeach. Not sure on this.
Impeachment requires a majority vote of the House. Conviction requires 2/3 of the Senate. InJustice Thomas deserves to be removed, but it won’t happen.
Large bodies move slowly. It is entirely possible that the composition of both the House and the Senate could change before this ever came before either body for a vote. It certainly won't happen if the process is not started.
True
How is this true? The Dem-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee can start investigating this allegation now.
Let's start with an investigation, yes, before calling for removal?
Regardless of the outcome, it should be investigated.
An impeachment trial won’t happen under Republican House control.
A Supreme Court Justice is a lifetime appointment. Vote blue and gain control of the House. There is an election in 2024. An investigation will take a long time and if we work hard enough it may not be a Republican controlled House.
Unlikely perhaps, but certainly appropriate were a judicious majority in play in the House. Thomas needs to be taken to the woodshed.
The ProPublica report on Thomas' ethical canyon is chilling -- and not in the least surprising.
Like try to get away w/all of his and his wife’s crap. Sure, things are just fine aren’t they. HE needs to go NOW... this is beyond disgusting. Grrrrrrr
If only. I wish. Who would need to do what?
I believe it would start with the House.
The Dem-controlled Senate Judiciary Committe can investigate now before the House votes to impeach.
I am celebrating my 80th birthday today. I am a close observer of government and politics. My Masters is in Political Science. I am retired from 30 years of public service employment. In my lifetime, I have never seen anything like the current conflict between fact and opinion and between right and wrong. It is certainly not the United States that I expected to live in today. I will continue to try to do my best to be a good citizen and keep my chin up.
Happy Birthday Vickie! I hope you ignore the news today and do whatever makes you happy!
Perfect. This is no time to give up. I do think he gets way too much free Press. Guess that is news though. Thank God we have you, Joyce. 🇺🇸
So very true on the free Press. Harkens back to 2015 & 2016 and we all know how that went. And yes, Thank God we have Joyce!
I actually think tfg wants to get locked up in hopes it will incite much larger protests for his benefit and continue to raise more money for himself.
Knitting pictures, too, please. Bonus for knitting with chickens! I value the reminders that we’re in this together. Thanks for your clear explanation of these complex issues.
Yes! ChickenKnits, a new brand of knit wear!
Dear Joyce - YOU are such a force in helping us all feel strong and hopeful - PLEASE "keep on keepin on" as we would say in the "good ole days" . Looking forward to this weeks podcast - THANKS for being YOU!! smooch up those sexy chickens ;-)
Thank you, Joyce. “Civil discourse works. We’re in this together... .”
Maturity is a choice. Civility is a choice. Dignity is a choice. Civilization is a choice.
Thanks. You always help relieve stress around these issues. Logical reasoning and precise explanations of reality provides a shining light of hope. 🙏🐘
If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Innocent people have nothing to hide.
All of the yelling and anger from the republicans is bravado for, “look! Over there!” This judge has eyes on the prize.
45 looks BAD, it’s getting to him!
Thank you Joyce!
I reject the view that those among us with different views are best physically separated from one another. Barricades, red and blue states, whatever form that separation involves. It’s not a sustainable position.
Our Rule of Law is being tested.
Yes, it certainly is.
Yes, our rule of law is being threatened! Republicans encouraging rule by/of POLITICS!?!
We need strength and strong back bones! We need to swear by that Constitution! It has never let us down!
There are provisions of the Constitution which need to be revisited.
Not in the current political environment. Not unless you want slavery, gerrymandering, and the "rights of the unborn" enshrined there.
If it prevents public violence, as the Charlottesvill police attempted to do, it's a worthy move. And I'm sure it did in NYC.
So what happens when you are
separated out, within what you
thought was a place to voice a
political concern with people from your own party, and are literally trashed for your tone and sentiment? My tone was shock
and my sentiment was appalled.
I 've been banned. I didn't use
1 profanity, although I felt like it.
I felt like I had fallen into a MAGA
roundhouse.
Hi, Victoria. The phenomena of being trashed by those you thought were “people from your own party” ... wow. That is a thing. it is real. and it needs to be noticed and named.
My son Matthew shared this article on wokeness and what it means. It’s a slog; being UK based, some references don’t translate w/o research. But the gist is there. People get to be who they really are. Performative displays of solidarity that ignore nuance of thought or questions or opinion ... that is cultic behavior. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/
We get to live our lives, learn. Believe, take in new thoughts, develop new understandings. Trashing one another as we invest in learning and engaging? That is a suppression tactic. It’s oppressive. It’s group think. On the way to cultic. Not good.
You were banned?