Calling it all out isn't enough. Focus on the core offence and call that out very widely. DOGE MAGA' s grimy hacker team are hesitating on complying with one court order in particular; are they right now thinking of making an illegal grab on trillons of dollars of Treasury money? I wish this were a conspiracy theory but look at all the screamingly loud pointers.
Elon Musk is out of control He & his minions had no right to be into the treasury. OPM is doing the right thing in the lawsuit along with Federal Employees.
Again…If there’s basis then sure …but based on or not on what when it comes to the duties of the Executive…I’m just asking ….that’s why i come to experienced lawyers for details..
I don’t understand the point…sorry don’t mean to be obtuse…Obama’s USDS (Digital Services UPgrade)wasn’t an EO it was an admin action to help fix the healthcare roll out so it’s clear the DOGE wasn’t a simply name change or rebranding bc it had to be tied to something else i think..right?
DOGE is nothing but a name. No authority. No entity. Just Musk doing what he wants to do, raiding the US Treasury etc.
What is mind boggling is that there is no law enforcement to stop him. Assuming we survive this, which I wouldn't bet on, something needs to be done to prevent one person from having so damn much power without any accountability -- and those who set this up need to be held accountable. ALL of them!
Hey Suzc….I included the above link hoping that hearing O’bama and Biden may give you some assurances about Presidents understanding their duties and the two other branches of Government under Articles I,II and III of the United States Consitution. Unfortunately, our Educational System has not prioritized Civics and many are left at a loss when a scenario such as we have happens. That’s unfortunate. But I’m certain Joyce Vance understands, in this case, The Executive Branch duties and if you want to use the words what the President can and can’t do. I wish she would have explained these as she saw the panic expressed by her subscribers. Everyone has jumped on the idea that Judges other than the Supreme Court though they can do what they did and issue a TRO, temporary restraining order, but understand, in general you and I could get a TRO as easily. But it’s TEMPORARY. I wish folks understood this. Because as you have seen now, not only did the issuing Judge back track, but all of these of these lower court Judges flexing their power only makes them look good to people who don’t know better..That’s where I wish Ms Vance would step in to clarify. All these sets of lawsuits aimed at the Executive Branch, because that’s who the legalities are pressing up against even though the public thinks of the pressure as on individuals, President Trump and Elon Musk…I don’t have time to go through the fact that a DOGE by any other name is still the name of an official position as named by the President in his lawful capacity as Commander and Chief to assign. To assign by the way with special duties all under the purview of the Executive Branch which is only seen as names, in this case, President TRump and Elon Musk. It’s heart wrenching to see the American People being pushed or at the very least not being stopped from language like “coup” and “constitutional crisis” when neither is true. I don’t have the time is explain this but Joyce Vance could since she leads this discussion. What’s gone on in this civil discourse only Ms Vance can advance because from what I read everyone except maybe one person seems to be outraged like yourself or suggests as one person mentioned to the effect”we’re all on the same team”. I would love that to be true in the overall. Let me say that all these lawsuits were’nt brought thinking they were going to stop the Executive Branches action because all good lawyers know that was never going to be possible. But what it could do is highlight tensions between executive action, judicial oversight and the balance of powers. So far no one has tried to advance only delay because if they go to the Supreme Court they will lose then not only will they have lost a case trying to stop the Executive Branch from exercising it’s duly appointed powers by the Constitution, but any future possibility of delaying actions by the Executive so that folks could have more time to get their ducks in a row…..That’s all this is about and after reading through conversations here it became upsetting that their was no one to explain things. I sometimes think this happens so people can have an opportunity to vent before reality strikes…I happen to think that’s cruel. But I understand. Also, keep in mind there is the prevailing fight to expand the Supreme Court, get rid of the electoral college (which is another important discussion when it comes to the Bill of Rights to protect the minority from oppression, sorry I have no time to go down that trail. It saddens me that there is some much to understand about Civics and nobody seems to want to educate the American Public so that disagreements are made on concrete knowledge of the system…Your not going to “stop him” your words not mine because I know you can’t….I just want someone to teach you that you won’t be able to in any reasonable fashion. When I read you to say you don’t believe the country will survive this…..I can only say, of course you will. You don’t want anyone to do something stupid….so your best chance at surviving this in a less stressful fashion would be to try and understand what is happening. Ms Vance has the capability of explaining all this in clear cut measured terms since she has been walking this political road for so long through so many iterations. She knows what was said on November 5 by the American People….She knows the consequences wrought over these last 4 years…Now there’s a chance to step back but, leave it to Maxine Waters and the Party is doomed …not just for 4 years but 8 maybe 12years. The Democrat Party was delivered a clear cut message and all I continue to hear, not all, but in large part, “Orange Man Bad” and doubling down on the hatred of it all…..Where has it gotten the Party…RFKjr left, Tulsi left, Brett Weinstein left, and the list goes on …..Classical liberals left…..Covering your eyes and ears will not change things…AOC screaming Elon Musk is the stupidest billionaire she knows. Well, first she doesn’t know him not really though she did buy a Tesla so she knows he’s pretty good at that….and then that from an ex-bartender….Do you see what I’m trying to say….The gig is up…really..it’s over …every day it’s another exposure of the worst possible situations with receipts. They have evidence for every single thing they are doing..Hard core hard cold evidence….It’s time to come out with your hands up if you really want to survive …and that won’t be easy….No body believes these cuts are no longer feeding children, or hurting Social Security…Joyce Vance knows that….There’s time to be a globalist and there’s a time to come home and get your own house in order…right? If your home environment is not in order or at least making an effort to be in order you’ll never be able to help the world. The US got over it’s skis. Just listen to the video link I left you. Obama knew it…He just got so pushed that once he chose Wall Street over mainstream he still won his next election, narrowly but he bailed out the banks at the taxpayers expense. We bailed out the banks…until we understand how the system works we are just going to walk around angry…generally at the wrong people….So, good luck to you…I hope you can see your way through this. I don’t know who you think “set this up” I can tell you who let the Party down, but there is no one to be held accountable because whose ever stirred you up hasn’t told you no one is doing anything wrong….Listen to Vargas one of the Judges, all she could end up saying was did you have to do this all so quickly. She knows they are in the right…But in some odd way she thinks the new administration should have eased into a new administration that is going to be 180 degrees different than the last 4 years which escalated the horror the Treasury finds itself in…..Vargas had no power to make the Executive Branch stop from doing their lawful duty…The best they could get away with was a couple of days ….and others hoping they’d go as rouge as Fani Willis, Alan Bragg, Letitia James, Smith and the list goes on…they all lost…Vargas knows that so does Vance…Vargas wasn’t going to put herself out on the chopping block….But it put on a show for the American People, it’s kept the American People wound up…I hope Ms Vance will unwind the situation for all of you….because it’s tired me out….I know you want to say but but but but…it’s not fair….life isn’t and the sooner we come to terms with that the sooner we engage smarter. That’s what it’s all about….being smarter the next time…that’s the only way to move ahead successfully…..God bless you as you move on…..
Now I hope I’m not so criticized for once hoping the good generals would have temporarily suspended the constitution and took over the government before this band of disgusting pieces his unAmerican shit took over. Ya, I was thoroughly criticized . Now does anyone wish to criticize me? Please come forth. We lost either way. Yes had they enacted a coup, that could have created a tradition. But please understand a legal coup has occurred. There will be a time when MAGAs figure out how to remain in government. And by then it will be too late. I don’t wish to sound alarmist or anything. But do I lol?
The damage that is being done is incalculable. It won’t be undone for a long time if ever. And I will say that we on the left side of politics partially caused it. You will ask me how and I won’t open up that can of worms. But I’m real disappointed how far to the left we have allowed ourselves to go and we just don’t even realize it.
How far to the LEFT?! What we're experiencing here is from the capitulation of the GOP to a right wing lunatic and his unhinged, self-serving hitman. You may legitimately criticize Democrats for being feckless and out-played, but too far to the left? Ridiculous!
I totally agree! What I have been writing for weeks now: Sorry, but I think it is wishful thinking that this can be turned around by any other than physical means since the rule of law is now meaningless. Irreparable damage has already been done. It would take a military intervention to clear out this mess, and that would only be if the entire military were not corrupted and took seriously their oath to protect the constitution. It seems that the cowardice of politicians, even prior presidents, could be explained due to physical threats to them and their families, up to and including possible imprisonment in prisons being set up in foreign countries (I hope I am wrong, but I think, in passing, I saw something about a deal with El Salvador to take prisoners that were US Citizens - gulag for political prisoners?). Seems to me we now have a totalitarian government.
they are also "arm chair " soldiers... over weight, too old and no real desire to get in a fight other than name calling like their leader & his twin... blowhards are what they really are gulping down their beers and complaining that they have no rights
Maybe it would work to get community law enforcement to help. I know some of them are loyal to their oaths. How do we close down the right-wing media at least for a couple of weeks until we can get some of this insanity stopped. When men are allowed to act like toddlers, there is pretty much nothing they won't do - it's that testosterone thing or whatever other hormones make men need to cause wars, take away people's rights, do harm to people who oppose them, etc. One good thing is that it is a minority of men in this condition, but that minority has enormous weapons and brainwashing that makes men think they must do things, for their honor or whatever they claim as their overarching purpose. For Toddlers-Trump-Musk, it is themselves and their wealth and power, as well as their ability to steal regularly from the American people that drives them. Then, this nation has never dealt with our endemic racism, misogyny, and homo/transphobia. Scared white men and the women who love them are not good people and are OK with that. We the People don't have to be OK with that!
There are still some courageous individuals fighting for democracy. The 2nd insurrection is ongoing and now is the moment. It's a very dirty fight from them. But It ain't over! They have not unequivocally gotten hold of the Treasury payment system yet (the crown jewels). If they do,maybe it is over. We need to unite and not give up yet. X has been weaponised, for example the information (presumably illegally obtained by DOGE grimy hacker types) of relatives of those who speak up are being posted online to silence and intimidate. The removal of so many security details by Trump and the insecurely sent emails with CIA agents' info by DOGE are life threatening moves of the same ilk. I hope someone slaps down legal stops on these behaviours to protect the bravw ones who ARE standing up.
Catherine, we need to get the word out that courage is not present among Republicans, so the rest of us are going to have to stand for what is right. I am not sure how that can be done on the scale we need it, but we need to have courage. We can't count on Republicans in any office to stand for this nation because Toddlers-Trump-Musk are intimidating them and courage is just not present with them. It is time to realize that if we all cave, they have won and our lives will be impossibly worse than anything we are seeing now.
Or those same good generals could order their company not to obey illegal unconstitutional screeds. Remind them it is the Constitution they swore to protect not an fascist oligarch
The fighting level troops can't possibly discern for themselves what is and what is not an order that is Constitutional. That's why they have a chain of command. It is up to senior military leadership to keep unconstitutional orders from trickling down to the troops.
Some families of troops in European Command Headquarters in Stuttgart were filmed booing Pete Hegseth after he had ordered a list of books banned in the Defence department schools. One protester waved a rainbow umbrella in defiance.
Well…really? Have we taken a deep dive into the BASIS….why doesn’t anyone do this to decipher the quality of the actions…we already know the judicial tactics are all overturnable…I understand it’s just a delaying tactics but it’s not really even that at this point especially with Judge Connelly coming out with breaking news to clarify even if he tried to camouflage his remarks for the less educated but Joyce should be able to clarify his remarks which may be the scary part…but we should be commenting on real truth and not what we hope the truth is….
We are experiencing an evil coup at the moment, which was extremely easy to see was going to happen. It didn’t make any sense at all to have a peaceful transfer of power to an evil dictator.
And don't tell me they were elected. Maybe one of them was. Maybe not. But it wasn't by much and it wasn't a majority of voters. And it wasn't to do what they are now doing.
I agree. The left realizes it, but is too spineless to take action. I thought it was men who decided the '24 election; I would say more like eunuchs were the driving force.
But Joyce please explain the basis they are operating on …rather than their actions to get a handle on espousing the truth rather than hyperbole….At the end of the day we have a commitment to the Truth of all situations even ones we detest …hate and want to fight against But we certainly don’t want to insight physical violence…
While I hope Joyce answers the question I’m assuming we’re all trying to do the research, the homework….Do you have anything that explains the basis before the action?
Or why not do it the old-fashioned way--musk is served a subpoena to show up and testify and if he doesn't he's ordered in contempt and off to jail ala Bannon?
Bannon's jail-time was for failing to appear at a Congressional Hearing. For those violating a court order, it would be an "OSC" that's an Order to Show Cause why the Perp should not be held in Contempt. ... & fined.
That would be a quasi-criminal proceeding something like a mini-trial which can last Days. Of course that means testimony under oath in the Box Seat.
Oh my …you mean like Biden…come on pardoning isn’t even in the cards anymore…that one’s been played…it’s the pre-emptive pardons that have stigmatized us …Why would Fauci, JIm Biden or that whole list even need pardons…well I get it if they don’t have the reciepts there’s railroad time…but otherwise it seems like again the truth is what has been rising to the surface…Not our truth but The Truth …
ONE of my fears is that the insurrectionist regroup into trump's personal militia and openly start killing the "enemy from within. Then trump pardons them after every murder because they are killing in his name.God forbid....
Just yesterday Bannon got off scott-free for pleading guilty to defrauding the dullards who sent him money for the stupid Wall. No punishment at all, and four felony counts dropped as part of the plea bargain. I don't know why the courts are going so easy on these fascist criminals.
Really? You don’t ….? And you think Bannon got off Scott-free??? He was in a prison that since 1950 when Lardner was sent there for Contempt of Congress has ONLY housed felonies Again if we don’t know the truth we too espouse idiotic statement.
Thank you for the link. That said, it was a terrifying read.
I don’t see the US Marshals doing anything to enforce court orders. The US Marshals Director REPORTS to Trump.
I don’t see the US Military doing anything to enforce court orders. The Defense Secretary controls what the military does or does not to, and the Defense Secretary is controlled by Trump, who is the Commander in Chief.
"The U.S. Marshalls work for the Federal Courts, but the President appoints the Director of the U.S. Marshalls. The President could order the U.S. Marshalls not to enforce a court’s contempt order. In that case, the default enforcement authority would be the U.S. Military, who are sworn to defend the Constitution and have historically done so when the President refused to enforce the requirements of the Constitution.
The military has done it twice. In 1861, before Abraham Lincoln was sworn in, the sitting President James Buchanan ordered General in Chief of the Army Winfield Scott to turn over control of the Army’s forts and arsenals in the south to Southern seceding states. Scott refused on grounds it was an illegal order and ordered the Federal Forces to resist.
On January 6, 2021, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley was ordered by the Acting Secretary of Defense, per the White House and presumably the President, to stand down and refuse the request of the Speaker of the House and the Vice President to defend the capital with the National Guard and expel the insurrectionists from the Capitol, in order that the complete the counting of the presidential electoral votes could take place as mandated by law. General Milley complied with the Speaker and the Vice President’s request and ordered the National Guard to clear the Capitol. President Trump has recently indicated he may have General Milley court martialed for that and other actions but so far, he has not done so.
Both of these precedents give strong support to the United States courts to order the U.S. Military to enforce contempt orders against members of the administration who refuse to abide by the Constitution as the U.S. courts have determined. If they fail to follow final adjudicated court Orders, they will be arrested, just as the insurrectionists of January 6 were arrested, tried and convicted. Without inherent enforcement capabilities, the Constitution and its established Courts are nothing but a phantom and a fantasy. The U.S. Military has historically provided that capability.
This creates a blue on blue confrontation, where armed elements of the Administration would oppose armed military forces carrying out arrest warrants of administration officials who refuse to comply with court Orders. This will not end well but it will end, unless Trump backs down, as he did on January 6. The U.S. Military will follow the Constitution and the law. And their attorneys will tell them that their Commander in Chief has issued an illegal order. The military will do what the Supreme Court orders them to do, given their diverse makeup, their sworn oath to the Constitution and their tradition of Duty, Honor, Country.
Goggin’s point about the United States military and what General Milley did on January 6 is well taken. Trump has not yet begun a wholesale firing of general officers in the Pentagon. If Goggin’s scenario is correct, it would appear that we have a lot riding on whether there are any of what we might call Constitutional generals left in the Pentagon when Trump and Hegseth are done with it."
Oh man thank you for mostly the reality and truth of this current scenario we find ourselves in….Now can we get back to what’s true and what’s memorex not based on what we hope or what we can spin please
Because the US Military can’t. And even if it could…Pete Hegseth???? This is where our ignore shines bright…I know we all want a place to vent so I don’t take much of this seriously …but I do take Joyce Vance seriously and she needs to be a leader for the truth from having done a deep dive and being soooo much more experienced then any of us for the most part…
Ugh…again…have you done a deep dive on this???? Let’s take one example
Biden was determined to eliminate Student Loans SCOTUS clearly said he wouldn’t listen to them Was that totalitarianism….Even if most liked that Biden did this….
And rogue means what….physical violence…ugh defining insurrection?? How does that move the ball forward other than getting a bunch of people rounded up and sent to the pokey…this is frustrating
Only if there basis is steeped in truth….these are ONLY temporary court orders we all must understand….enough to create a narrative but our narrative is also temporary if it’s not based in the truth
But, the USA is also part of NATO. It’s terrifying to be threatened by your ally. Plus the USA has the third largest military force in the world. Far larger than Canada’s. We are doing the best we can to fight back against the tariffs, but most of us are living in a state of high anxiety.
I could’ve said it better, but I tried to read as many comments to glean as much from this idea of this being a coup as I I possibly could and I’m grateful that Joyce Vance provides a place for people to vent that there’s a place for people to go and express themselves freely I was just looking for more of a fact, based explanation to define this as a coup, and I got tired after a while because I wasn’t reading it if you have any thing that is evidently facts that would be great. Please do tell.
Let him have his Secret Service - if Congress raises the corporate tax rate from 21% the gift Trump gave in 2017 to 28%; keeps the deductions for the middle class but raises the tax rate for those making over $400K, they can get close to their 2 trillion. CAN Elon Musk and the corruption going on with DOGE!
I’m waiting (hopefully, not too long) for the other shoe to drop on Trump voters who inevitably will feel the worst of these illegal, outrageous actions. Pissed that the few “good” republicans are so afraid of backlash and pissed that Democrats can’t get their shit together and rise up to this and be a voice again.
There;’s no evidence in Trump’s M-O that he want comply with the JUdicary…in fact just the opposite….Why are we looking at the Judges who have issued these so very temporary court orders? Sure they are sympathetic but generally getting a court is like ordering a ham sandwich anyone can get one until it goes up the chain
We need massive protests. Everyone who subscribes to your letters needs to contact Indivisible or another effective organization and go to every protest every time. We need massive numbers of people in the streets in non-violent protests. While Democratic politicians are so far ineffective (why the hell aren't they filibustering every damn nominee?), we the people can show them what to do. If the people lead, the "leaders" will follow.
Meg, agree completely about the Dems. They need to protest everything - using the Moscow mItch playbook. And they better not cave and help with the budget mess. If the government shuts down, let the Repub's own it. And at this point, even if the gov't defaults - how much worse it than what's happening now? The Ruby Reds need to feel the pain. Too bad the rest of do, too.
Everyone should just stop going to work. No checks issued. Period. Let’s see how long it takes the American public to wake up and republicans to complain. Their constituents will vote them out immediately. Recall them all.
I’m all for rooting out fraud, waste and abuse, but this ain’t the way to do it. How about we start with the Defense Department and all the contractors who rip off the government.
Agreed....but also boycotts against companies who have signed on to the Republican coup and the calls to legislators need to step up as well. It's increasing clear (at least to me) that trump may not even realize what's really going on and has been assigned the 'keep distracting them with pennies, name changes and re-building Gaza' while the real harm goes on all around him. 'Republican Coup' should be emphasized; it's as if the republicans in the senate and house are just watching from the sidelines.
Yes! and Yes! Even receiving a simple e-mail from a friend that said, "don't watch the inauguration, and infuriate the wannabe dictator" had a significant impact on TV ratings. I heard from a far right wing senator yesterday that he was inundated with calls to remove Musk.
I agree and understand large peacefull protests are planned for February 19th, Presidents Day. Let's stand-up and be counted!! I don't think very many voted for a Dictator.
I'm hoping the Dems are giving T room to hang himself along with his disciples and enablers. His narcissism is running away with him and might be his down-fall. It is, after all, a mental disorder.
I absolutely despise Party Politics in any form, left, right, or center. However, I think there are some really intelligent and right- thinking people among the Dems, who didn't fall off a turnip truck. who really care and are in this fight, too. They are silent at the moment for good reason; this means as much to them as it does to us. Silence does not indicate, necessarily inactivity.
There are also people around us who understand our Constitution, history, and Law. On Lucian Truscott's Newsletter, I read about " How the Looming Trump Constitutional Crisis could Play Out". It is a must-read for anyone who intends to do whatever it takes to protect our Constitution and democracy.
James, you may mean well, and I'm sure most would ignore your comments as most reading this would consider that you have drunk the KoolAid, but I'll give it a shot... Most agree that there need to be many reforms, but we don't want to give up our system of government to do it. Many of the special interest fraud, waste, and abuse issues are enabled by Citizens United. Healthcare, education, and foreign policy need work, but simply eliminating them exacerbates the problems. We are promoting fear in our allies. Immigration needs reform, too, in a sensible way, and we need legal immigration to run our economy. And how you call "defeated soundly" puzzles us all. Granted, the electoral college by gerrymandering but certainly not by popular vote. WE have a clue. Do you?
Mostly I agree, but Electoral College cannot be gerrymandered. The number of votes is based on the number of Senators + Congressmen in the state. The former is fixed at 2, the latter is based on population.
Let's start with just one of your items - health care. It most definitely needs some work. If paying the most and getting (among) the least isn't enough to spur us to action ...
So in Trump's first term he promised (over and over and over again) to "fix it". He never did much of anything except to say Obamacare was 'horrible' and his plan would be a fantastic solution. He never came up with anything. I think there are 2 reasons for this: One, he hates anything Obama or Biden did that's successful (Obamacare is obviously successful). Two, he and his advisors are unable to work up a better solution. Recall after he first said he would fix it and it would be easy, that he subsequently said "Who knew health care could be this complicated?" (Actually lots of us knew).
Asked more recently if he had a plan he responded: "I have a concept." Wow! That's it? A concept?
It would include getting drug prices down -- way down in many cases. This is exactly what Biden was doing (and did with 10 of them). But Trump hates Biden so he's working to undo those 10 fixes right now. He wants/needs the big pharma support and money so he's not going to rub them the wrong way.
Trump has shut down much of the CDC and HSS making things worse. Much worse. Happily a US Federal Judge has put much of that on hold -- Trump and his advisors had no right to do that.
So he had no ideas of value, puffs out his chest insisting he does and we go nowhere. And meanwhile he's pedaling backwards on drug pricing. Promises made, promises broken.
Clearly he's not going to be the solution.
Note: Trump and Republicans were not, as you say, "soundly defeated" in November. Both just barely eeked out a win. Trump 49.8%, Harris 48.32%. Difference is 1.48%. It was one of closest presidential elections ever. Republicans just barely won the House and Senate. They rule with a thin majority and that's causing them lots of problems. If Democrats can win the seats vacated when Trump selected them for admin positions in his administration, Democrats could actually flip the House! Stay tuned.
While I agree with what's wrong, I disagree with your assertion that Trump will have the effect you intended or want.
1) Many of his executive orders are illegal, or at least don't have the force of law. The Executive cannot simply not spend funds allocated by Congress. The Constitution reserves that right to the Congress. And slashing government spending indiscriminately is not a recipe for improvement. As for improving government, his nominees are mostly unqualified or will simply follow his orders rather than use the independent judgment a qualified cabinet member should possess.
Do you think that not following the law, ignoring the law and court decisions is a healthy sign of a democracy, where the rule of law is the only thing that keeps autocracy at bay?
2) I agree that healthcare in the US has huge problems. Abolishing the ACA will not solve them, just prevent millions of Americans from accessing the healthcare they need. Blocking funds indiscriminately, besides disrupting clinical studies needed to make better healthcare decisions by doctors harms patients; it does not improve the healthcare system at all. His HHS nominee, Kennedy, showed a lack of understanding of the agencies under his prospective purview, as well as mistrust of the scientific community. Do you think that will lead to better healthcare?
3) Trump may be "remaking education" but not in a way that you would want for your children. The Department of Education funds and oversees school districts, and while there are certainly problems, appointing someone with zero knowledge of education will not improve it.
4) Trump is certainly remaking foreign policy. Do you think that his attacks on our allies make us safer? For a person who calls many he doesn't like a "Marxist", his cozying up to Putin makes for a very strange ally. NATO, which he disparages, has kept the peace since World War II. He wants to leave it. That can well lead to attacks on our Allies, who may be unprepared to defend themselves, making the world a more dangerous place.
5) More than remaking the border, he's expelling immigrants who have been here for years, including those brought here as babies who had no say in where they lived and who know no other countries. Immigrants have a lower percentage of people who commit crimes (contrary to what he says) and they pay taxes. They also take jobs that Americans won't do. It has been reported that legal immigrants have been arrested and detained without proof that they are not here legally. Just because they"look" different. How would you feel if that happened to you? It has also been reported that people from Afghanistan who helped us in that war and have been legally allowed to live here have been deported, facing death or other retribution from the Taliban. How is that acceptable?
6) Lower prices. He promised, and was elected on the promise, of lower prices. Now he says "it's hard." You bet it is. But it's what he promised us! Prices are higher and inflation is worse since he was elected. And the stock market is down. I don't see where his actions have helped any of that. And the cost of tariffs he's imposing are falling on Americans, not the countries whose goods are now more expensive. So what is he doing to lower prices and reduce inflation and make the economy work for you and me?
You will likely not agree or believe what I have written. That's your right. But I hope that you will at least read to the end, and then consider what I've said.
Zombie alert. Do us a favor asshole and put yourself out of our misery and save us from your usual bullshit. And who is this "we" asshole? You mean you and your fellow assholes? Always good for a laugh.
68% of eligible voters DID NOT vote for Trump. He won by a margin of 1.5%; that is not a mandate. Jill Stein was the third candidate who ran and it was probably the ballots that went to her that made the final decision. Trump won by default, not because of what he stands for. Inflation and grocery bills were foremost on people's minds.
I don't agree that America needs to be 'remade'. With all our faults and flaws, we have come a long way on the road of democracy made for us by our founding fathers. Our Constitution is one of the best guiding Lights in this world of ours. We have become a beacon of hope for those who were/are suppressed and yearn for the freedoms we enjoy. Why do you think thousands upon thousands walk months under intolerable conditions to be among us? Our democracy beckons them.
It puzzles me why you continue to live here where diversity, equity, and inclusion are our goals for one another but are abhorrent to you There are other counties where promoting "fear" is to their liking.
I remember in Trump 1.0, it took 3 - three!!!! years before news outlets called a trump lie "a lie." We don't have the luxury of that kind of time this time around. Call it a coup.
Okay, let me get this straight. The press has to call it "the Gulf of America" and the President can control their free speech and equal reporting. He can also decide that words like abortion, trans, gay, lesbian, etc. are words no longer acceptable. But he's big on free speech when it comes to his big mouth and when it's insulting and outing people in the media or public figures, that's okay because it's free speech. He doesn't make any sense and his expectations are delusions of grandeur!
I have been considering writing a letter to the White House using all the proper addresses of Sir, Madam, Mr., his, her, she, him, etc. and then using the strike feature to put a line through every one of them.
Many leaders, Democracy Forward for 1, Professor Joyce to name another. This Community is now over 500K strong built by Joyce & supported by magnificent chickens.
You say that but the lawyers are the only ones clearly fighting this fight. We need to have massive protests but we don't have a clear lead as to when or where?
Nancy- join your local Indivisible group or another grassroots, action-oriented group and pitch in for the fight. If you’re not seeing what we’re all doing, maybe you’re not looking in the right place. Corporate news media isn’t covering us, but we are fighting with everything we’ve got. We need you with us, not ignoring our work.
This a response this morning to a Garrison Keillor satirical column on the situation: Your reputation as a satirist is well known and well earned. However, there comes a time and this may well be it when the subjects have gone so far over the edge that satire fails. One of the all time best at satire was Tom Lehrer. Most of our generation know his stuff. I think he is still alive at age 96 but has not performed in years primarily because his massive powers of human observation told him that things during and after the GW Bush administrations had gotten so bad they were beyond the ability of satire to demonstrate the point. He, once again, "saw" it correctly. Trump and Musk are both clinically mentally ill and the sycophants surrounding them are not far behind. If things don't change soon, the chaos they are creating will sink us all. At age 88 and still in good shape physically and mentally I got up today in fear that my SS check was not going to show up automatically in my bank account. It did and I am relieved for a few minutes until opening the laptop for the day's news. Literally thousands and maybe soon millions who are being targeted by these two idiots are waking up similarly as their livelihoods are being upended!
Agreed about the “satire” and “comic impressions”. They tried this in Germany in the 1930s too. All it does is deflect from the seriousness of the situation.
I think you missed my point. Did you mean let Garrison speak for himself? Garrison well knows who Tom Lehrer is and was and certainly can speak if he so chooses.
Suggestion: Weekly protests in cities and towns throughout the country at a fixed day/time-- e.g., Sunday afternoons.-- Likely to start slowly, but build--- perhaps reaching a million or more nationwide--- Need to generate grassroots pressure. This is a way for ordinary folks to make themselves heard.
We don't like the word, but that's exactly what it is. By the way, you can open up Google maps and leave a review of them renaming the Gulf of Mexico and they will thank you for the feedback.
Shall we all start calling it JackSmith Mississippi and Jacksmithville Florida, Fani Willis County, GA, and instead of Atlanta, call it Abrams?
Thanks, Deb. I just did this. A bit more how-to detail: Use google.com, type in Gulf of Mexico, click on the three dots to the right of the words "Gulf of America," click send feedback, click incorrect, type "The correct name of this body of water is The Gulf of Mexico," submit. Share far and wide. And keep an eye on Mt. Denali. Repeat above steps if it suddenly shows up as Mt. McKinley.
Why the reluctance to call this a “coup”? Does anything change other than the appellation? This is a wholesale takeover of our democratic form of government, with the power of the military and a thousand newly-released convict-led thugs to boot!
Although I don’t want to believe it, I suspect that there is a large percentage of the military and the police who would do anything that the chief felon would order them to do. To include doing harm to their fellow citizens. I say this with great sadness as I am an Army Brat and had a 30 year career with the Department of the Army. I no longer trust in the goodness of people. I don’t think I ever will again.
This is Trump's second attempted coup, and what is so astonishing is that the Republican party has followed him when there is absolutely no guiding principle or philosophy behind either of them -- other then his deep narcissism. He is a completely amoral individual who just does not care. He is power drunk. He has no actual interest in whether USAID is effective or not effective, and he is okay with the likes of Elon Musk destroying federal agencies because he DOES NOT CARE!
When I knocked on doors for Kamala Harris and was told by the person opening the door that he/she was voting for Trump, the two regular answers were that he was going to lower gas prices or food prices, especially eggs!! And really --just like everything else -- he could care less about either of those problems.
He is working to intimidate everyone other than pressuring oil companies to lower what they are charging for gas!
DESPERATE MEASURES ALREADY FOR FUCKS SAKE! THE COURTS ARE NOT ENOUGH. I have to wonder Joyce, who in Congress is reading this newsletter, or the many others on this platform that are calling this shit out! Democrats ought to be literally treating their Republican colleagues as having abdicated their oaths of office, because they have! Upon taking their seats the newly elected, swore an oath to The Constitution, they have abdicated it.
abdication
noun
failure to fulfill a responsibility or duty: "we can't allow such an important cause to be undermined by such an abdication of responsibility."
The Dems are still bringing a knife to a gun fight! THEY MUST STOP IT!
As a small act, make it a point of your day to read Joyce first (of course) and THEN send Google and Apple Maps corrections, restating the obvious that it’s the Gulf of Mexico!
I would call this a coup, peppered with treason, bribery, constitutional crisis, and sedition. I probably missed a few but I am sure a lawyer could handle it. Is there no one who has friends in the legacy media and other podcast arena that could or would start spreading our concerns?
Jan6 was also a coup and everyone knew who was leading it. As I read yesterday somewhere, Sen. McCarthy called Trump durning that insurrection to get him to stop it. He did not Pelosi, or Antifa or Black Lives Matter or the FBI. He called Trump. And Trump did nothing and to this day is not held accountable. So of course this is a coup and we are reading about it every day in the news while Trump doesn't even bother to stop it...again.
We just got to keep calling it out. The other side is good at flooding the zone; we need to break open a bigger dam.
Calling it all out isn't enough. Focus on the core offence and call that out very widely. DOGE MAGA' s grimy hacker team are hesitating on complying with one court order in particular; are they right now thinking of making an illegal grab on trillons of dollars of Treasury money? I wish this were a conspiracy theory but look at all the screamingly loud pointers.
Elon Musk is out of control He & his minions had no right to be into the treasury. OPM is doing the right thing in the lawsuit along with Federal Employees.
Unfortunately Musk is IN (not out of) control.
Agreed Musk appears to be in total control….in terms of no fear….which makes me wonder what they know and we don’t
Again…If there’s basis then sure …but based on or not on what when it comes to the duties of the Executive…I’m just asking ….that’s why i come to experienced lawyers for details..
Under the category of corruption? Would be for any other sitting president.
I don’t understand the point…sorry don’t mean to be obtuse…Obama’s USDS (Digital Services UPgrade)wasn’t an EO it was an admin action to help fix the healthcare roll out so it’s clear the DOGE wasn’t a simply name change or rebranding bc it had to be tied to something else i think..right?
DOGE is nothing but a name. No authority. No entity. Just Musk doing what he wants to do, raiding the US Treasury etc.
What is mind boggling is that there is no law enforcement to stop him. Assuming we survive this, which I wouldn't bet on, something needs to be done to prevent one person from having so damn much power without any accountability -- and those who set this up need to be held accountable. ALL of them!
https://x.com/kans449707/status/1890887591844556916?s=61
Hey Suzc….I included the above link hoping that hearing O’bama and Biden may give you some assurances about Presidents understanding their duties and the two other branches of Government under Articles I,II and III of the United States Consitution. Unfortunately, our Educational System has not prioritized Civics and many are left at a loss when a scenario such as we have happens. That’s unfortunate. But I’m certain Joyce Vance understands, in this case, The Executive Branch duties and if you want to use the words what the President can and can’t do. I wish she would have explained these as she saw the panic expressed by her subscribers. Everyone has jumped on the idea that Judges other than the Supreme Court though they can do what they did and issue a TRO, temporary restraining order, but understand, in general you and I could get a TRO as easily. But it’s TEMPORARY. I wish folks understood this. Because as you have seen now, not only did the issuing Judge back track, but all of these of these lower court Judges flexing their power only makes them look good to people who don’t know better..That’s where I wish Ms Vance would step in to clarify. All these sets of lawsuits aimed at the Executive Branch, because that’s who the legalities are pressing up against even though the public thinks of the pressure as on individuals, President Trump and Elon Musk…I don’t have time to go through the fact that a DOGE by any other name is still the name of an official position as named by the President in his lawful capacity as Commander and Chief to assign. To assign by the way with special duties all under the purview of the Executive Branch which is only seen as names, in this case, President TRump and Elon Musk. It’s heart wrenching to see the American People being pushed or at the very least not being stopped from language like “coup” and “constitutional crisis” when neither is true. I don’t have the time is explain this but Joyce Vance could since she leads this discussion. What’s gone on in this civil discourse only Ms Vance can advance because from what I read everyone except maybe one person seems to be outraged like yourself or suggests as one person mentioned to the effect”we’re all on the same team”. I would love that to be true in the overall. Let me say that all these lawsuits were’nt brought thinking they were going to stop the Executive Branches action because all good lawyers know that was never going to be possible. But what it could do is highlight tensions between executive action, judicial oversight and the balance of powers. So far no one has tried to advance only delay because if they go to the Supreme Court they will lose then not only will they have lost a case trying to stop the Executive Branch from exercising it’s duly appointed powers by the Constitution, but any future possibility of delaying actions by the Executive so that folks could have more time to get their ducks in a row…..That’s all this is about and after reading through conversations here it became upsetting that their was no one to explain things. I sometimes think this happens so people can have an opportunity to vent before reality strikes…I happen to think that’s cruel. But I understand. Also, keep in mind there is the prevailing fight to expand the Supreme Court, get rid of the electoral college (which is another important discussion when it comes to the Bill of Rights to protect the minority from oppression, sorry I have no time to go down that trail. It saddens me that there is some much to understand about Civics and nobody seems to want to educate the American Public so that disagreements are made on concrete knowledge of the system…Your not going to “stop him” your words not mine because I know you can’t….I just want someone to teach you that you won’t be able to in any reasonable fashion. When I read you to say you don’t believe the country will survive this…..I can only say, of course you will. You don’t want anyone to do something stupid….so your best chance at surviving this in a less stressful fashion would be to try and understand what is happening. Ms Vance has the capability of explaining all this in clear cut measured terms since she has been walking this political road for so long through so many iterations. She knows what was said on November 5 by the American People….She knows the consequences wrought over these last 4 years…Now there’s a chance to step back but, leave it to Maxine Waters and the Party is doomed …not just for 4 years but 8 maybe 12years. The Democrat Party was delivered a clear cut message and all I continue to hear, not all, but in large part, “Orange Man Bad” and doubling down on the hatred of it all…..Where has it gotten the Party…RFKjr left, Tulsi left, Brett Weinstein left, and the list goes on …..Classical liberals left…..Covering your eyes and ears will not change things…AOC screaming Elon Musk is the stupidest billionaire she knows. Well, first she doesn’t know him not really though she did buy a Tesla so she knows he’s pretty good at that….and then that from an ex-bartender….Do you see what I’m trying to say….The gig is up…really..it’s over …every day it’s another exposure of the worst possible situations with receipts. They have evidence for every single thing they are doing..Hard core hard cold evidence….It’s time to come out with your hands up if you really want to survive …and that won’t be easy….No body believes these cuts are no longer feeding children, or hurting Social Security…Joyce Vance knows that….There’s time to be a globalist and there’s a time to come home and get your own house in order…right? If your home environment is not in order or at least making an effort to be in order you’ll never be able to help the world. The US got over it’s skis. Just listen to the video link I left you. Obama knew it…He just got so pushed that once he chose Wall Street over mainstream he still won his next election, narrowly but he bailed out the banks at the taxpayers expense. We bailed out the banks…until we understand how the system works we are just going to walk around angry…generally at the wrong people….So, good luck to you…I hope you can see your way through this. I don’t know who you think “set this up” I can tell you who let the Party down, but there is no one to be held accountable because whose ever stirred you up hasn’t told you no one is doing anything wrong….Listen to Vargas one of the Judges, all she could end up saying was did you have to do this all so quickly. She knows they are in the right…But in some odd way she thinks the new administration should have eased into a new administration that is going to be 180 degrees different than the last 4 years which escalated the horror the Treasury finds itself in…..Vargas had no power to make the Executive Branch stop from doing their lawful duty…The best they could get away with was a couple of days ….and others hoping they’d go as rouge as Fani Willis, Alan Bragg, Letitia James, Smith and the list goes on…they all lost…Vargas knows that so does Vance…Vargas wasn’t going to put herself out on the chopping block….But it put on a show for the American People, it’s kept the American People wound up…I hope Ms Vance will unwind the situation for all of you….because it’s tired me out….I know you want to say but but but but…it’s not fair….life isn’t and the sooner we come to terms with that the sooner we engage smarter. That’s what it’s all about….being smarter the next time…that’s the only way to move ahead successfully…..God bless you as you move on…..
Good question…I too am wondering if there is codified law that hasn’t been researched deep enough…
Now I hope I’m not so criticized for once hoping the good generals would have temporarily suspended the constitution and took over the government before this band of disgusting pieces his unAmerican shit took over. Ya, I was thoroughly criticized . Now does anyone wish to criticize me? Please come forth. We lost either way. Yes had they enacted a coup, that could have created a tradition. But please understand a legal coup has occurred. There will be a time when MAGAs figure out how to remain in government. And by then it will be too late. I don’t wish to sound alarmist or anything. But do I lol?
The damage that is being done is incalculable. It won’t be undone for a long time if ever. And I will say that we on the left side of politics partially caused it. You will ask me how and I won’t open up that can of worms. But I’m real disappointed how far to the left we have allowed ourselves to go and we just don’t even realize it.
How far to the LEFT?! What we're experiencing here is from the capitulation of the GOP to a right wing lunatic and his unhinged, self-serving hitman. You may legitimately criticize Democrats for being feckless and out-played, but too far to the left? Ridiculous!
I totally agree! What I have been writing for weeks now: Sorry, but I think it is wishful thinking that this can be turned around by any other than physical means since the rule of law is now meaningless. Irreparable damage has already been done. It would take a military intervention to clear out this mess, and that would only be if the entire military were not corrupted and took seriously their oath to protect the constitution. It seems that the cowardice of politicians, even prior presidents, could be explained due to physical threats to them and their families, up to and including possible imprisonment in prisons being set up in foreign countries (I hope I am wrong, but I think, in passing, I saw something about a deal with El Salvador to take prisoners that were US Citizens - gulag for political prisoners?). Seems to me we now have a totalitarian government.
So much more to fear. When T. pardoned all the Jan. 6 rioters, he created his own militia. They are loyal, capable, and armed.
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/bloodless-if-the-left-allows-it-to
"Bloodless if the left allows it to be" This quote from July keeps echoing in my head. . .
Yes, in my mind, too!
Noorillah - At a minimum I think we are headed to The Troubles.
they are also "arm chair " soldiers... over weight, too old and no real desire to get in a fight other than name calling like their leader & his twin... blowhards are what they really are gulping down their beers and complaining that they have no rights
Really? Yes they have some oldies but anymore than us?
Boy did you get that right !
Maybe it would work to get community law enforcement to help. I know some of them are loyal to their oaths. How do we close down the right-wing media at least for a couple of weeks until we can get some of this insanity stopped. When men are allowed to act like toddlers, there is pretty much nothing they won't do - it's that testosterone thing or whatever other hormones make men need to cause wars, take away people's rights, do harm to people who oppose them, etc. One good thing is that it is a minority of men in this condition, but that minority has enormous weapons and brainwashing that makes men think they must do things, for their honor or whatever they claim as their overarching purpose. For Toddlers-Trump-Musk, it is themselves and their wealth and power, as well as their ability to steal regularly from the American people that drives them. Then, this nation has never dealt with our endemic racism, misogyny, and homo/transphobia. Scared white men and the women who love them are not good people and are OK with that. We the People don't have to be OK with that!
I keep seeing them all in spider man suits. Swinging from branches. Invincible. Too much cartoon time as kids. I see Danielle Sassoon’s name
printed in 50% tariff steel, on a wall of Honour,
with the other
prosecutors from her team who
think integrity is part of the job description.
The imagination can be a chaotic task master …
You don’t …need a different strategy …like the truth of their basis….why aren’t we parsing out their basis?
Oh my ….militia…please tone down the words least we are accused of an insurrection
There are still some courageous individuals fighting for democracy. The 2nd insurrection is ongoing and now is the moment. It's a very dirty fight from them. But It ain't over! They have not unequivocally gotten hold of the Treasury payment system yet (the crown jewels). If they do,maybe it is over. We need to unite and not give up yet. X has been weaponised, for example the information (presumably illegally obtained by DOGE grimy hacker types) of relatives of those who speak up are being posted online to silence and intimidate. The removal of so many security details by Trump and the insecurely sent emails with CIA agents' info by DOGE are life threatening moves of the same ilk. I hope someone slaps down legal stops on these behaviours to protect the bravw ones who ARE standing up.
Catherine, we need to get the word out that courage is not present among Republicans, so the rest of us are going to have to stand for what is right. I am not sure how that can be done on the scale we need it, but we need to have courage. We can't count on Republicans in any office to stand for this nation because Toddlers-Trump-Musk are intimidating them and courage is just not present with them. It is time to realize that if we all cave, they have won and our lives will be impossibly worse than anything we are seeing now.
But what I’m wondering is do all of these comments add up to a pre-emptive insurrection on our side?
Or those same good generals could order their company not to obey illegal unconstitutional screeds. Remind them it is the Constitution they swore to protect not an fascist oligarch
Ginger,
The fighting level troops can't possibly discern for themselves what is and what is not an order that is Constitutional. That's why they have a chain of command. It is up to senior military leadership to keep unconstitutional orders from trickling down to the troops.
I believe you and I are saying the same thing
Some families of troops in European Command Headquarters in Stuttgart were filmed booing Pete Hegseth after he had ordered a list of books banned in the Defence department schools. One protester waved a rainbow umbrella in defiance.
And that says what to you….We are mostly aware of the larger coalition for the standards we have….so One protester means what exactly?
Well the issue is the “good generals” see both sides…which is not only their responsibility to the Consititution but ours!
what you saw about El Salvador is accurate, Alexandra
Hold on “physical means” ….what are you saying….?
That’s what i wanted and publicly called for! While we were in power, a democratic coup would have been more desirable.
But what do we DO now? I make calls even to my maga rep. Send emails. But what else?!
Here are some ideas of things we can do.
https://www.mobilize.us/workingfamilies/event/754335/?rname=Ali&share_context=event_details&share_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawIZ385leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHVSKjnq0KQfVtHEmStoX7QxxvJLW_AxrnvNDvvdafUCxdQznOKkBw8vTNw_aem_QFplonN1Etma-3uVelHBnA
https://www.messageboxnews.com/p/how-to-channel-your-anger-at-trump?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&fbclid=IwY2xjawIZ4BFleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHeuDdFF1qhoGGE1WGYMvtBs2haR7FEDYuMbnpZbI8jWpluTqaPp-_eOjpw_aem_pAmQFbhvGnrpulBZxDcM0g
How about discerning truth from memorex and hyperbole
Kathy,
We don't do coups.
Wrong. One has or is already occurring.
Well…really? Have we taken a deep dive into the BASIS….why doesn’t anyone do this to decipher the quality of the actions…we already know the judicial tactics are all overturnable…I understand it’s just a delaying tactics but it’s not really even that at this point especially with Judge Connelly coming out with breaking news to clarify even if he tried to camouflage his remarks for the less educated but Joyce should be able to clarify his remarks which may be the scary part…but we should be commenting on real truth and not what we hope the truth is….
We are experiencing an evil coup at the moment, which was extremely easy to see was going to happen. It didn’t make any sense at all to have a peaceful transfer of power to an evil dictator.
Not really….
We are experiencing actions we don’t like …there’s a difference
Is removing corrupt criminals from power a coup?
And don't tell me they were elected. Maybe one of them was. Maybe not. But it wasn't by much and it wasn't a majority of voters. And it wasn't to do what they are now doing.
Agreed…Someone has to intervene and tone down this rhetoric
No Coup is desirable
No coup is optimal but here we are.
I don’t understand please help. What are you saying?
We are in a coup now. Elon musk has taken over the treasury department and every computer system in the government. It is a coup.
I agree. The left realizes it, but is too spineless to take action. I thought it was men who decided the '24 election; I would say more like eunuchs were the driving force.
The “24 election hijack was insane
Was it a Coup or a Change?
Exactly
But Joyce please explain the basis they are operating on …rather than their actions to get a handle on espousing the truth rather than hyperbole….At the end of the day we have a commitment to the Truth of all situations even ones we detest …hate and want to fight against But we certainly don’t want to insight physical violence…
Mike, “break open a bigger damn” as you describe, is a great term for the action needed at this time!
Ok so what is that…it can’t be physical violence …so where do we dig for the truth not what we want…there’s a difference right
While I hope Joyce answers the question I’m assuming we’re all trying to do the research, the homework….Do you have anything that explains the basis before the action?
When asked how Fascism starts, Bertrand Russell once said:
“First, they fascinate the fools. Then, they muzzle the intelligent.”
Fraud Trump has no intention, at all, in complying with court orders. And, the court system has no way to enforce court orders.
I have a feeling that liar, fraud, con, convicted felon, racist Trump and his band of Nazis is going to provoke a massive, very violent response.
I have a “money saving” suggestion!
Can Fraud Trump’s Secret Service security detail. That would save billions of taxpayer dollars!
The court system absolutely has “a way to enforce court orders”. Try this. https://open.substack.com/pub/luciantruscott/p/how-the-looming-trump-constitutional?r=6ptqj&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Or why not do it the old-fashioned way--musk is served a subpoena to show up and testify and if he doesn't he's ordered in contempt and off to jail ala Bannon?
Sadly, where would that subpoena have to come from??? NO way would the Republican crowd demand such an appearance. Yes, sickening.
Bannon's jail-time was for failing to appear at a Congressional Hearing. For those violating a court order, it would be an "OSC" that's an Order to Show Cause why the Perp should not be held in Contempt. ... & fined.
That would be a quasi-criminal proceeding something like a mini-trial which can last Days. Of course that means testimony under oath in the Box Seat.
And Trump has unfettered pardon power.
Not for state charges
Oh my …you mean like Biden…come on pardoning isn’t even in the cards anymore…that one’s been played…it’s the pre-emptive pardons that have stigmatized us …Why would Fauci, JIm Biden or that whole list even need pardons…well I get it if they don’t have the reciepts there’s railroad time…but otherwise it seems like again the truth is what has been rising to the surface…Not our truth but The Truth …
How about a grand jury set up to investigate musk?
Susan, Trump's DOJ is never, in a million years, going to "set up a grand jury" to investigate Musk. Seriously?
Hello…thank you
Who would call a grand jury? Trump's DOJ?
And again, who do you suppose will convene a grand jury to investigate Musk right now….??
Exactly….
In fact it only goes to proving where all our subpoenas came from and ultimately fell short
Democrats tried to subpoena him and Republicans stopped it.
Trump would pardon Musk
ONE of my fears is that the insurrectionist regroup into trump's personal militia and openly start killing the "enemy from within. Then trump pardons them after every murder because they are killing in his name.God forbid....
Arrest Musk!
Silly waste of time
Pardons come with legal position anvils.
And it also comes with taking away your 5th Amendment rights…so what do you think happens then….
Just yesterday Bannon got off scott-free for pleading guilty to defrauding the dullards who sent him money for the stupid Wall. No punishment at all, and four felony counts dropped as part of the plea bargain. I don't know why the courts are going so easy on these fascist criminals.
Really? You don’t ….? And you think Bannon got off Scott-free??? He was in a prison that since 1950 when Lardner was sent there for Contempt of Congress has ONLY housed felonies Again if we don’t know the truth we too espouse idiotic statement.
And you’ll get that subpoena from who? Really we need concrete solutions
Thank you for sharing this. ( And now I need a xanax.)
Talk to your licensed physician, she might prescribe going in the other direction with a low dose or tiny dose of focus. I'm a JD not an MD.
That makes two of us
Can you spare one for me?
Thank you for the link. That said, it was a terrifying read.
I don’t see the US Marshals doing anything to enforce court orders. The US Marshals Director REPORTS to Trump.
I don’t see the US Military doing anything to enforce court orders. The Defense Secretary controls what the military does or does not to, and the Defense Secretary is controlled by Trump, who is the Commander in Chief.
"The U.S. Marshalls work for the Federal Courts, but the President appoints the Director of the U.S. Marshalls. The President could order the U.S. Marshalls not to enforce a court’s contempt order. In that case, the default enforcement authority would be the U.S. Military, who are sworn to defend the Constitution and have historically done so when the President refused to enforce the requirements of the Constitution.
The military has done it twice. In 1861, before Abraham Lincoln was sworn in, the sitting President James Buchanan ordered General in Chief of the Army Winfield Scott to turn over control of the Army’s forts and arsenals in the south to Southern seceding states. Scott refused on grounds it was an illegal order and ordered the Federal Forces to resist.
On January 6, 2021, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley was ordered by the Acting Secretary of Defense, per the White House and presumably the President, to stand down and refuse the request of the Speaker of the House and the Vice President to defend the capital with the National Guard and expel the insurrectionists from the Capitol, in order that the complete the counting of the presidential electoral votes could take place as mandated by law. General Milley complied with the Speaker and the Vice President’s request and ordered the National Guard to clear the Capitol. President Trump has recently indicated he may have General Milley court martialed for that and other actions but so far, he has not done so.
Both of these precedents give strong support to the United States courts to order the U.S. Military to enforce contempt orders against members of the administration who refuse to abide by the Constitution as the U.S. courts have determined. If they fail to follow final adjudicated court Orders, they will be arrested, just as the insurrectionists of January 6 were arrested, tried and convicted. Without inherent enforcement capabilities, the Constitution and its established Courts are nothing but a phantom and a fantasy. The U.S. Military has historically provided that capability.
This creates a blue on blue confrontation, where armed elements of the Administration would oppose armed military forces carrying out arrest warrants of administration officials who refuse to comply with court Orders. This will not end well but it will end, unless Trump backs down, as he did on January 6. The U.S. Military will follow the Constitution and the law. And their attorneys will tell them that their Commander in Chief has issued an illegal order. The military will do what the Supreme Court orders them to do, given their diverse makeup, their sworn oath to the Constitution and their tradition of Duty, Honor, Country.
Goggin’s point about the United States military and what General Milley did on January 6 is well taken. Trump has not yet begun a wholesale firing of general officers in the Pentagon. If Goggin’s scenario is correct, it would appear that we have a lot riding on whether there are any of what we might call Constitutional generals left in the Pentagon when Trump and Hegseth are done with it."
Terrance Goggin via Lucian Truscott. IV
Thanks for this.
Oh man thank you for mostly the reality and truth of this current scenario we find ourselves in….Now can we get back to what’s true and what’s memorex not based on what we hope or what we can spin please
Because the US Military can’t. And even if it could…Pete Hegseth???? This is where our ignore shines bright…I know we all want a place to vent so I don’t take much of this seriously …but I do take Joyce Vance seriously and she needs to be a leader for the truth from having done a deep dive and being soooo much more experienced then any of us for the most part…
Thank you SO much for sharing that link. Please spread it widely. It nails their scurrilous intention. Everyone needs to know.
Ugh…again…have you done a deep dive on this???? Let’s take one example
Biden was determined to eliminate Student Loans SCOTUS clearly said he wouldn’t listen to them Was that totalitarianism….Even if most liked that Biden did this….
Was it or was it not totalitarianism????
I just read his post and was both relieved and frustrated more by how the Marshals could do it but trump won't let them. They HAVE to go rogue!
And rogue means what….physical violence…ugh defining insurrection?? How does that move the ball forward other than getting a bunch of people rounded up and sent to the pokey…this is frustrating
Lucian Truscott! YES!!!
Lucian NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Do your homework
Only if there basis is steeped in truth….these are ONLY temporary court orders we all must understand….enough to create a narrative but our narrative is also temporary if it’s not based in the truth
Canada is part of NATO....so if Adolf Trumpler invades Canada......We fought nazis in 2 world wars and will do it again.
The millions of Americans who detest this playpen dictator can form their own underground resistance movements.
But, the USA is also part of NATO. It’s terrifying to be threatened by your ally. Plus the USA has the third largest military force in the world. Far larger than Canada’s. We are doing the best we can to fight back against the tariffs, but most of us are living in a state of high anxiety.
Ok now I’m done since we now on to Canada…..ugh zzzzzzzzz
No problem..........just move on to ethnic cleansing in Gaza for the next topic and Trump hotels being blown up by surrounding Arab nations
The stupidity is staggering
Oh my so you see no common sense in any of my many replies here…is that what your saying
No........you said you were falling asleep........
I could’ve said it better, but I tried to read as many comments to glean as much from this idea of this being a coup as I I possibly could and I’m grateful that Joyce Vance provides a place for people to vent that there’s a place for people to go and express themselves freely I was just looking for more of a fact, based explanation to define this as a coup, and I got tired after a while because I wasn’t reading it if you have any thing that is evidently facts that would be great. Please do tell.
Let him have his Secret Service - if Congress raises the corporate tax rate from 21% the gift Trump gave in 2017 to 28%; keeps the deductions for the middle class but raises the tax rate for those making over $400K, they can get close to their 2 trillion. CAN Elon Musk and the corruption going on with DOGE!
Republicans want to lower it to 15%. There’s no way they’ll raise it.
I’m waiting (hopefully, not too long) for the other shoe to drop on Trump voters who inevitably will feel the worst of these illegal, outrageous actions. Pissed that the few “good” republicans are so afraid of backlash and pissed that Democrats can’t get their shit together and rise up to this and be a voice again.
There;’s no evidence in Trump’s M-O that he want comply with the JUdicary…in fact just the opposite….Why are we looking at the Judges who have issued these so very temporary court orders? Sure they are sympathetic but generally getting a court is like ordering a ham sandwich anyone can get one until it goes up the chain
We need massive protests. Everyone who subscribes to your letters needs to contact Indivisible or another effective organization and go to every protest every time. We need massive numbers of people in the streets in non-violent protests. While Democratic politicians are so far ineffective (why the hell aren't they filibustering every damn nominee?), we the people can show them what to do. If the people lead, the "leaders" will follow.
Meg, agree completely about the Dems. They need to protest everything - using the Moscow mItch playbook. And they better not cave and help with the budget mess. If the government shuts down, let the Repub's own it. And at this point, even if the gov't defaults - how much worse it than what's happening now? The Ruby Reds need to feel the pain. Too bad the rest of do, too.
I would argue that this shouldn't be a purely "Democratic" protest, but an American protest. DOGE = COUP is the rallying cry.
completely agree. Not ALL Republicans are being sheeple.
Just all elected Republicans.
Nailed it in one
Another rallying cry--"Rule OF LAW, NOT RULE BY DECREE!
James, excellent rallying cry:
--"Rule OF LAW, NOT RULE BY DECREE!
That’s the protest sign I want right now.
May I also quote you in my messages to my sen and rep?
Have at it!
Many people, I’m sure, don’t care.
They willl when the policies affect them.
Too late.
The Dems need to induce a coma on the workings of the fed gov until the republicans start to remember and live by their constitutional oaths.
We need to demonstrate that to the pathetic Dems. We need to force them to induce, through all legal procedural means, a coma.
Everyone should just stop going to work. No checks issued. Period. Let’s see how long it takes the American public to wake up and republicans to complain. Their constituents will vote them out immediately. Recall them all.
I’m all for rooting out fraud, waste and abuse, but this ain’t the way to do it. How about we start with the Defense Department and all the contractors who rip off the government.
Agreed....but also boycotts against companies who have signed on to the Republican coup and the calls to legislators need to step up as well. It's increasing clear (at least to me) that trump may not even realize what's really going on and has been assigned the 'keep distracting them with pennies, name changes and re-building Gaza' while the real harm goes on all around him. 'Republican Coup' should be emphasized; it's as if the republicans in the senate and house are just watching from the sidelines.
Yes! and Yes! Even receiving a simple e-mail from a friend that said, "don't watch the inauguration, and infuriate the wannabe dictator" had a significant impact on TV ratings. I heard from a far right wing senator yesterday that he was inundated with calls to remove Musk.
KMB, exactly correct! Thank you!!
I agree and understand large peacefull protests are planned for February 19th, Presidents Day. Let's stand-up and be counted!! I don't think very many voted for a Dictator.
President's Day is February 17. Is that the date for the protests? When and where?
Not here. But Congress needs to HEAR us!
I'm hoping the Dems are giving T room to hang himself along with his disciples and enablers. His narcissism is running away with him and might be his down-fall. It is, after all, a mental disorder.
I absolutely despise Party Politics in any form, left, right, or center. However, I think there are some really intelligent and right- thinking people among the Dems, who didn't fall off a turnip truck. who really care and are in this fight, too. They are silent at the moment for good reason; this means as much to them as it does to us. Silence does not indicate, necessarily inactivity.
There are also people around us who understand our Constitution, history, and Law. On Lucian Truscott's Newsletter, I read about " How the Looming Trump Constitutional Crisis could Play Out". It is a must-read for anyone who intends to do whatever it takes to protect our Constitution and democracy.
NO. Trump is remaking America.
1)Reducing the size of government. Make it more effective and cost effective.
2) Remaking Healthcare and Health outcomes - we are a sick nation.
3) Trump is remaking education - we spending the most dollars on education and have the worst results
4) Trump is remaking foreign policy. We need to be the most lethal fighting force in the world so that we promote fear in our adversaries
5) Remaking the border - Protecting and perserving our country.
DEMOCRATS are digging a deeper and deeper hole into irrelevance.
Fighting TRUMP at every turn is not a national agenda ITS A MENTAL ILLNESS.
This is WHY you were defeated soundly in NOVEMBER. Get a clue.
James, you may mean well, and I'm sure most would ignore your comments as most reading this would consider that you have drunk the KoolAid, but I'll give it a shot... Most agree that there need to be many reforms, but we don't want to give up our system of government to do it. Many of the special interest fraud, waste, and abuse issues are enabled by Citizens United. Healthcare, education, and foreign policy need work, but simply eliminating them exacerbates the problems. We are promoting fear in our allies. Immigration needs reform, too, in a sensible way, and we need legal immigration to run our economy. And how you call "defeated soundly" puzzles us all. Granted, the electoral college by gerrymandering but certainly not by popular vote. WE have a clue. Do you?
Mostly I agree, but Electoral College cannot be gerrymandered. The number of votes is based on the number of Senators + Congressmen in the state. The former is fixed at 2, the latter is based on population.
Let's start with just one of your items - health care. It most definitely needs some work. If paying the most and getting (among) the least isn't enough to spur us to action ...
So in Trump's first term he promised (over and over and over again) to "fix it". He never did much of anything except to say Obamacare was 'horrible' and his plan would be a fantastic solution. He never came up with anything. I think there are 2 reasons for this: One, he hates anything Obama or Biden did that's successful (Obamacare is obviously successful). Two, he and his advisors are unable to work up a better solution. Recall after he first said he would fix it and it would be easy, that he subsequently said "Who knew health care could be this complicated?" (Actually lots of us knew).
Asked more recently if he had a plan he responded: "I have a concept." Wow! That's it? A concept?
It would include getting drug prices down -- way down in many cases. This is exactly what Biden was doing (and did with 10 of them). But Trump hates Biden so he's working to undo those 10 fixes right now. He wants/needs the big pharma support and money so he's not going to rub them the wrong way.
Trump has shut down much of the CDC and HSS making things worse. Much worse. Happily a US Federal Judge has put much of that on hold -- Trump and his advisors had no right to do that.
So he had no ideas of value, puffs out his chest insisting he does and we go nowhere. And meanwhile he's pedaling backwards on drug pricing. Promises made, promises broken.
Clearly he's not going to be the solution.
Note: Trump and Republicans were not, as you say, "soundly defeated" in November. Both just barely eeked out a win. Trump 49.8%, Harris 48.32%. Difference is 1.48%. It was one of closest presidential elections ever. Republicans just barely won the House and Senate. They rule with a thin majority and that's causing them lots of problems. If Democrats can win the seats vacated when Trump selected them for admin positions in his administration, Democrats could actually flip the House! Stay tuned.
While I agree with what's wrong, I disagree with your assertion that Trump will have the effect you intended or want.
1) Many of his executive orders are illegal, or at least don't have the force of law. The Executive cannot simply not spend funds allocated by Congress. The Constitution reserves that right to the Congress. And slashing government spending indiscriminately is not a recipe for improvement. As for improving government, his nominees are mostly unqualified or will simply follow his orders rather than use the independent judgment a qualified cabinet member should possess.
Do you think that not following the law, ignoring the law and court decisions is a healthy sign of a democracy, where the rule of law is the only thing that keeps autocracy at bay?
2) I agree that healthcare in the US has huge problems. Abolishing the ACA will not solve them, just prevent millions of Americans from accessing the healthcare they need. Blocking funds indiscriminately, besides disrupting clinical studies needed to make better healthcare decisions by doctors harms patients; it does not improve the healthcare system at all. His HHS nominee, Kennedy, showed a lack of understanding of the agencies under his prospective purview, as well as mistrust of the scientific community. Do you think that will lead to better healthcare?
3) Trump may be "remaking education" but not in a way that you would want for your children. The Department of Education funds and oversees school districts, and while there are certainly problems, appointing someone with zero knowledge of education will not improve it.
4) Trump is certainly remaking foreign policy. Do you think that his attacks on our allies make us safer? For a person who calls many he doesn't like a "Marxist", his cozying up to Putin makes for a very strange ally. NATO, which he disparages, has kept the peace since World War II. He wants to leave it. That can well lead to attacks on our Allies, who may be unprepared to defend themselves, making the world a more dangerous place.
5) More than remaking the border, he's expelling immigrants who have been here for years, including those brought here as babies who had no say in where they lived and who know no other countries. Immigrants have a lower percentage of people who commit crimes (contrary to what he says) and they pay taxes. They also take jobs that Americans won't do. It has been reported that legal immigrants have been arrested and detained without proof that they are not here legally. Just because they"look" different. How would you feel if that happened to you? It has also been reported that people from Afghanistan who helped us in that war and have been legally allowed to live here have been deported, facing death or other retribution from the Taliban. How is that acceptable?
6) Lower prices. He promised, and was elected on the promise, of lower prices. Now he says "it's hard." You bet it is. But it's what he promised us! Prices are higher and inflation is worse since he was elected. And the stock market is down. I don't see where his actions have helped any of that. And the cost of tariffs he's imposing are falling on Americans, not the countries whose goods are now more expensive. So what is he doing to lower prices and reduce inflation and make the economy work for you and me?
You will likely not agree or believe what I have written. That's your right. But I hope that you will at least read to the end, and then consider what I've said.
Zombie alert. Do us a favor asshole and put yourself out of our misery and save us from your usual bullshit. And who is this "we" asshole? You mean you and your fellow assholes? Always good for a laugh.
68% of eligible voters DID NOT vote for Trump. He won by a margin of 1.5%; that is not a mandate. Jill Stein was the third candidate who ran and it was probably the ballots that went to her that made the final decision. Trump won by default, not because of what he stands for. Inflation and grocery bills were foremost on people's minds.
I don't agree that America needs to be 'remade'. With all our faults and flaws, we have come a long way on the road of democracy made for us by our founding fathers. Our Constitution is one of the best guiding Lights in this world of ours. We have become a beacon of hope for those who were/are suppressed and yearn for the freedoms we enjoy. Why do you think thousands upon thousands walk months under intolerable conditions to be among us? Our democracy beckons them.
It puzzles me why you continue to live here where diversity, equity, and inclusion are our goals for one another but are abhorrent to you There are other counties where promoting "fear" is to their liking.
I remember in Trump 1.0, it took 3 - three!!!! years before news outlets called a trump lie "a lie." We don't have the luxury of that kind of time this time around. Call it a coup.
Okay, let me get this straight. The press has to call it "the Gulf of America" and the President can control their free speech and equal reporting. He can also decide that words like abortion, trans, gay, lesbian, etc. are words no longer acceptable. But he's big on free speech when it comes to his big mouth and when it's insulting and outing people in the media or public figures, that's okay because it's free speech. He doesn't make any sense and his expectations are delusions of grandeur!
I have been considering writing a letter to the White House using all the proper addresses of Sir, Madam, Mr., his, her, she, him, etc. and then using the strike feature to put a line through every one of them.
This is just how ridiculous their commands are.
Danielle, More like complete insane. Big money knows this… trump is a blind puppet…. More a stupid one so he doesn’t care or even know.
The tax on rich has to be in the 90%. That is all they think about. Gimme gimme gimme MORE…
All of those who read and learn know trump is a puppet . We need to pour gasoline in the media pipeline and light it!
Musk is right in there either him.
We know it is a coup. We just don’t know what to do about it. Where is the leadership?
Many leaders, Democracy Forward for 1, Professor Joyce to name another. This Community is now over 500K strong built by Joyce & supported by magnificent chickens.
You say that but the lawyers are the only ones clearly fighting this fight. We need to have massive protests but we don't have a clear lead as to when or where?
Nancy- join your local Indivisible group or another grassroots, action-oriented group and pitch in for the fight. If you’re not seeing what we’re all doing, maybe you’re not looking in the right place. Corporate news media isn’t covering us, but we are fighting with everything we’ve got. We need you with us, not ignoring our work.
Schumer complicit
This a response this morning to a Garrison Keillor satirical column on the situation: Your reputation as a satirist is well known and well earned. However, there comes a time and this may well be it when the subjects have gone so far over the edge that satire fails. One of the all time best at satire was Tom Lehrer. Most of our generation know his stuff. I think he is still alive at age 96 but has not performed in years primarily because his massive powers of human observation told him that things during and after the GW Bush administrations had gotten so bad they were beyond the ability of satire to demonstrate the point. He, once again, "saw" it correctly. Trump and Musk are both clinically mentally ill and the sycophants surrounding them are not far behind. If things don't change soon, the chaos they are creating will sink us all. At age 88 and still in good shape physically and mentally I got up today in fear that my SS check was not going to show up automatically in my bank account. It did and I am relieved for a few minutes until opening the laptop for the day's news. Literally thousands and maybe soon millions who are being targeted by these two idiots are waking up similarly as their livelihoods are being upended!
Agreed about the “satire” and “comic impressions”. They tried this in Germany in the 1930s too. All it does is deflect from the seriousness of the situation.
Telling us how Tom Lehrer IS and thinks, is not helpful. Let him speak for himself. He's more than capable.
I think you missed my point. Did you mean let Garrison speak for himself? Garrison well knows who Tom Lehrer is and was and certainly can speak if he so chooses.
Suggestion: Weekly protests in cities and towns throughout the country at a fixed day/time-- e.g., Sunday afternoons.-- Likely to start slowly, but build--- perhaps reaching a million or more nationwide--- Need to generate grassroots pressure. This is a way for ordinary folks to make themselves heard.
We don't like the word, but that's exactly what it is. By the way, you can open up Google maps and leave a review of them renaming the Gulf of Mexico and they will thank you for the feedback.
Shall we all start calling it JackSmith Mississippi and Jacksmithville Florida, Fani Willis County, GA, and instead of Atlanta, call it Abrams?
Thanks, Deb. I just did this. A bit more how-to detail: Use google.com, type in Gulf of Mexico, click on the three dots to the right of the words "Gulf of America," click send feedback, click incorrect, type "The correct name of this body of water is The Gulf of Mexico," submit. Share far and wide. And keep an eye on Mt. Denali. Repeat above steps if it suddenly shows up as Mt. McKinley.
Thanks, Ruth. Excellent follow up with more details!
Washington should be renamed Trumpington???
Or BigMacington......KFCington....Whopperton?????...........Dependsington???
“THE FATHER, THE SON, and THE HOLY SHIT.” Let Us Prey…
Thank you, Joyce, for calling it what it is! I hope you start a movement to do so.
Why the reluctance to call this a “coup”? Does anything change other than the appellation? This is a wholesale takeover of our democratic form of government, with the power of the military and a thousand newly-released convict-led thugs to boot!
Although I don’t want to believe it, I suspect that there is a large percentage of the military and the police who would do anything that the chief felon would order them to do. To include doing harm to their fellow citizens. I say this with great sadness as I am an Army Brat and had a 30 year career with the Department of the Army. I no longer trust in the goodness of people. I don’t think I ever will again.
Thank you, Joyce!!
This is Trump's second attempted coup, and what is so astonishing is that the Republican party has followed him when there is absolutely no guiding principle or philosophy behind either of them -- other then his deep narcissism. He is a completely amoral individual who just does not care. He is power drunk. He has no actual interest in whether USAID is effective or not effective, and he is okay with the likes of Elon Musk destroying federal agencies because he DOES NOT CARE!
When I knocked on doors for Kamala Harris and was told by the person opening the door that he/she was voting for Trump, the two regular answers were that he was going to lower gas prices or food prices, especially eggs!! And really --just like everything else -- he could care less about either of those problems.
He is working to intimidate everyone other than pressuring oil companies to lower what they are charging for gas!
DESPERATE MEASURES ALREADY FOR FUCKS SAKE! THE COURTS ARE NOT ENOUGH. I have to wonder Joyce, who in Congress is reading this newsletter, or the many others on this platform that are calling this shit out! Democrats ought to be literally treating their Republican colleagues as having abdicated their oaths of office, because they have! Upon taking their seats the newly elected, swore an oath to The Constitution, they have abdicated it.
abdication
noun
failure to fulfill a responsibility or duty: "we can't allow such an important cause to be undermined by such an abdication of responsibility."
The Dems are still bringing a knife to a gun fight! THEY MUST STOP IT!
As a small act, make it a point of your day to read Joyce first (of course) and THEN send Google and Apple Maps corrections, restating the obvious that it’s the Gulf of Mexico!
I would call this a coup, peppered with treason, bribery, constitutional crisis, and sedition. I probably missed a few but I am sure a lawyer could handle it. Is there no one who has friends in the legacy media and other podcast arena that could or would start spreading our concerns?
MSNBC is on it daily!
MSNBC? A going broke media outlet with a rapidly shrinking audience? Pls do not be misled by cable news
Jan6 was also a coup and everyone knew who was leading it. As I read yesterday somewhere, Sen. McCarthy called Trump durning that insurrection to get him to stop it. He did not Pelosi, or Antifa or Black Lives Matter or the FBI. He called Trump. And Trump did nothing and to this day is not held accountable. So of course this is a coup and we are reading about it every day in the news while Trump doesn't even bother to stop it...again.