271 Comments
User's avatar
Doug G's avatar

"The fog of war". He's a cruel coward and a liar.

Jocelyn B's avatar

Self-righteous, bombastic, murdering sleeze bag.

Doug G's avatar

Yep. All of that, Jocelyn.

Bill Katz's avatar

Joyce Vance does an excellent job bringing events to the fore. We become informed and in a way, these events that are occurring before our eyes, being informed is in a way therapy for us. Awareness can be cathartic as long as we are not consumed by it. We need to be kept informed. I have neighbors who don’t understand how we are going through very dark and difficult times.

We must preserver. We must at some point soon again, be proud of being American. I cannot be proud with the hoodlums in the office. At this time, I’m desperately ashamed of my country. Billkatz@substrack.com

I am Somali today.

Keith Wheelock's avatar

Bill Reminds me of Ich Bein Berliner (pardon my German)

Jocelyn B's avatar

Yup, it's why I pay to read Civil Discourse when I can't really afford it. Also HCR, Rubbell, and Kuo. But I had to stop there!

Keith Wheelock's avatar

Jocelyn I wonder how you really feel.

Jocelyn B's avatar

😂😂

I could have gone on, but typing on my phone isn't my favorite thing.

It's Come To This's avatar

The Fog of Kegsbreath. A man who couldn't be bothered to stick around after he'd given the order to kill. A man contemptuous of human life and decency, sloppy, arrogant, drunk, incompetent, wretched and cruel.

And, no wonder. Look who hired him.

Doug G's avatar

ICTT, I suspect he stuck around to watch, getting his rocks off as it happened.

It's Come To This's avatar

I suspect you're right.

Russ Wiecking's avatar

It’s around 2000 miles from Caracas to Miami. Interdiction is happening long before the destination is known. Shutting down a small boat, capturing the occupants for questioning, and verifying the type of cargo would provide “proof of concept”, legal proceedings, and potential information on leaders and facilities. This reasonable approach is clearly not desired by the administration. Killing with impunity for no reason but the cruelty tells us what sells with Trump, Hegseth and MAGA. This is happening “close to home.” As Trump and MAGA unravel it will get closer. ICE and Bovino are waiting at the color boundary. I guess this just says “I am Charlie Hebdo, I am Sandwich Man, I am a 78 white liberal middle class grandfather mostly average Antifa. No Kings.” We must have our backs, friends, in the days to come.

Sandy S's avatar

Hegseth doesn't even know what the term 'fog of war' refers to. He just wants to sound cool. Well, I got news for him, he looks pathetic in his blue suit with the clinging legs of static electricity! And he sounds even dumber! There is only one party shooting in this so called 'armed conflict'. Shesh! There is also a report that the boat had turned around and was headed back to port before the 1st strike. In one video today (though I do not know the date it was filmed) Hegseth says that he knew exactly who was in that boat. And went on to talk about their excellent information. Okay, let's find out if that was a true statement. Let's get this man talking. The 'you-know-what' is getting knee deep around him! Mean while, DJT needs some No Doze. What a stupid pair!!!!

Doug G's avatar

Sandy, I suspect he's been in many a fog while sitting behind a bottle. Maybe it's the fog of DeWARs Scotch.

Sandy S's avatar

Shouldn't be surprised if that was what his oh so important 1-2 hour meeting was all about. Had to go celebrate his victory at war.

Lady Emsworth's avatar

Kegsbreath and Jordan obviously have the same tailor.

JA's avatar

Pete always looks like he has a very cheap, inexpensive suit on? Like his shabby , slick hair? Off colors and cheap ties? Yuk!

Sandy S's avatar

I agree. But then when you see his disgusting Tattoos, they say it all! The man is clueless in so many ways. BTW - I’m thinking he throws that blue suit in the washer and dryer!?!?! That might explain it! :-) With a little luck he won’t have to worry about such things in the clink!!! Though the tats may be another problem!

dee's avatar

....and a alcoholic, sex offender...the list goes on.

Doug G's avatar

Yep, that too, dee.

Ruth Sheets's avatar

Doug, I couldn't think of one positive attribute of Hegseth either.

Doug G's avatar

Ruth, well, as a bald guy, I can say the man has hair.

Lady Emsworth's avatar

And as a unidexter, that he has two legs.

Mind you, they don't always support him. . .

patricia's avatar

he is handsome...if you don't know what a drunk dumb shit he is

Nancy's avatar

Evidently, Congress thought he was just dandy to be Secretary of Defense, along with giving all of the other incompetents their roles in Cabinet positions. I'm reminded of the thought that Ikea has better cabinets. But I digress from my point, which is that we confirmed all of these incompetents; and we're paying a very steep price!

Margaret's avatar

So he kind of fits in, doesn't he? Why would the Rat________ in the White House want anyone else? This is our American and they are in charge?

Russell John Netto's avatar

The fug of war.

He's a great one for posting bellicose messages on Twitter/X:

"We have only just begun to kill narco-terrorists".

But when push comes to shove 'it wasn't me, sir'. Hegseth fired the Judge Advocate Generals for the Army, Air Force, and Navy calling them “roadblocks to orders that are given by a commander in chief”. Now we see why this was necessary to clear the path for state-sanctioned murder.

After the invasion of Vietnam, Daniel Ellsberg reflected:

"We weren't on the wrong side. We are the wrong side."

And here we are back again as though nothing had happened since then.

lauriemcf's avatar

He and Noem are certainly a pair of evil fucks.

Doug G's avatar

Yep, Russell -- a cruel lyin' coward.

J. Busby's avatar

The term "fog of war" refers to the uncertainty and confusion experienced during military operations. It captures the lack of clarity regarding one's own capabilities, the enemy's capabilities, and their intentions. This uncertainty can affect decision-making and situational awareness on the battlefield.

Obviously, he knows not of what he speaks.

Swbv's avatar

And implies that the other side is shooting back at you. Hegseth is in way over his head.

Margaret's avatar

His brain most likely is foggy?

Johan's avatar

Cruelty is always the point with wannabe-authoritarians

Lady Emsworth's avatar

"The Fog of Alcohol" more like. . .

Patricia Dempsey's avatar

Maybe he should be 'breathalyzed' every day to be sure that's NOT the case. I have my suspicions as well.

Kathleen Dintaman's avatar

Like an Olympic athlete.

Joseph McPhillips's avatar

Secretary of War Crimes...

Doug G's avatar

That's excellent, Joseph!

Matt Derechin's avatar

I agree with you and believe there is something deeply wrong with him. He seems to crave violence and killing. I guess he believes he’s defending America, but he really doesn’t talk much about that and instead glorifies death and destruction.

Denise Schwend's avatar

Seems like he's spent a bit too much time behind his Xbox, playing Call of Duty.

JA's avatar

Hegseth is a fog of the Trump war? He is ultra ambitious at the expense of our military.

Recall all those 800+ military officers summoned to Quantico several months ago for no reason at all? Trump tagged along also at that event.

Hegseth has no background in this scene he has been pushed into so willingly! He is out of character and out of order. Give Pete time, and his end will be near. He is just a rolling disaster, waiting to happen. Our nation has had enough already! End this story!

Carol H's avatar

Huh. I always thought the "fog of war" referred to when you are on a battlefield blazing away and the adrenaline high takes over.

Matt Derechin's avatar

I think you’re right, Carol, but I think Pete gets so excited about the prospect of attacking someone — and killing them — that he can’t think straight. I’m not sure about his ability to do that under normal circumstances but I could see him putting a towel in his mouth during these conflicts just to contain all the salivating and drooling.

Russ Wiecking's avatar

It’s around 2000 miles from Caracas to Miami. Interdiction is happening long before the destination is known. Shutting down a small boat, capturing the occupants for questioning, and verifying the type of cargo would provide “proof of concept”, legal proceedings, and potential information on leaders and facilities. This reasonable approach is clearly not desired by the administration. Killing with impunity for no reason but the cruelty tells us what sells with Trump, Hegseth and MAGA. This is happening “close to home.” As Trump and MAGA unravel it will get closer. ICE and Bovino are waiting at the color boundary. I guess this just says “I am Charlie Hebdo, I am Sandwich Man, I am a 78 white liberal middle class grandfather mostly average Antifa. No Kings.” We must have our backs, friends, in the days to come.

Maui Wahine's avatar

"The Fog of Day Drinking" more likely.

DW's avatar
Dec 3Edited

Timmy's mommy: "Timmy, did you eat the cake?

Timmy, standing with his face covered in frosting: "I didn't eat any cake."

Sophia Demas's avatar

Exactly! How many times has this date-raping frat boy tried to walk back things he's actually boasted about in the past? I can't wait for Admiral Frank Bradley to answer to Congress this week. One good thing about Hegseth is that he got Congress to find a pulse....

Ann P's avatar
Dec 3Edited

You’re assuming Bradley is going to tell the truth in any Congressional hearing. If the reports of what happened are true, then Bradley knowingly followed an illegal order to kill hors de combat civilians, and then gave such an illegal order to his subordinates, knowing that it all violated the LOAC and the Military Code of Justice (combat, whatever, killing survivors of an attack on a boat clinging to the wreckage is THE stated example of an illegal order in the military books). I can’t imagine an Admiral who would knowingly commit such a crime and order other people to do the same being willing to admit that in a hearing. It would take a dishonorable Admiral to commit the crime. Would a dishonorable Admiral then suddenly be honorable and tell the truth when questioned? He might just use the same “fog of war” excuse and claim he didn’t see the survivors either, he just wanted to sink the boat.

Acting Duke of Serutan's avatar

Doesn’t the example of killing the survivors clinging to the boat debris assume that the sinking of the boat was justified? Was that sinking somehow justified on September 2? If so, how was ambushing the boat justified? No interdiction, no use of force by the people in the boat, just WHAM! they are all dead. Isn’t this a more egregious example of a war crime? It seems that so many are assuming that the first strike was justified. Was it? Yes, I repeat myself. But I need to know.

DC Cougar's avatar

Yeah, it's so weird that this "second strike story" has entirely overshadowed the fact that every one of these "first strikes" is so entirely illegal, both internationally and domestically. Just like January 6th was -- these strikes are based on a blatant Trump lie.

Ann P's avatar

I’m not assuming that the first strike was justified, and I don’t think that most people are assuming that. They’re just making the argument that IF you assume the first strike was a justified war/combat action, then the actual textbook example of a war crime would be to shoot the survivors under a “no quarter” order, which is what the WaPo anonymous sources said Hegseth did. This assumption, in effect, allows GOP congressmen and senators to support Trump while attacking Hegseth and using this incident to get rid of him. I suspect that this whole thing is a prelude to Trump fires Hegseth and replaces him with Dan Driscoll, the Secy of the Army and best friend of Vance.

Sophia Demas's avatar

NONE OF THIS IS JUSTIFIED.

Doug G's avatar

And Ann, people seem to be forgetting 2 things: #1, that they have offered no proof that the boat was carrying drugs to the US, and #2, that if so, it should have been interdicted. This is Hegseth, Bradley (apparently) and maybe others playing war to satisfy some dark urge to kill people without showing good cause.

Phil Johnson's avatar

I will give Bradley the benefit of the doubt - for now.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, IMHO.

Patricia Dempsey's avatar

We'll see tomorrow how that plays out. Adm. Bradley will be in front of Congress (not sure if the House or the Senate) and personally, I'll have cleared my day in order to see it.

Sophia Demas's avatar

What Bradley will say is exactly why I can't wait. It seems to me that in this case, whether he ordered the second hit or followed orders, he has committed a war crime. How can someone with sterling credentials ignore the oath they took so that they can sit at the lunch table with the petulant popular kids? Let's see....

Dianne Loftus's avatar

Those naive Congressmen --- and losers like Sleazy Petey, need to grow a pair, or try to find them, while they're at it. (Sorry, but I couldn't help myself). For the sake of this country, hopefully they can find them sooner than later.

Dear Santa, make note of this request, if you could.

Caroline (PDX)'s avatar

Some might need a magnifying glass. Either that or need to ask trump to return their balls.

Daniel Solomon's avatar

Pressure the members of the Senate and House Armed Services Committees, who can stop this now. GOP senators to join Democrats in investigating Pete Hegseth ‘kill everybody’ allegations GOP Senator Roger Wicker, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Democratic Senator Jack Reed, announced the investigation in a joint statement.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/pete-hegseth-drug-boat-investigation-b2875013.html

James A's avatar

Calling Bullshit

INVESTIGATE WHAT?

Killing TERRORISTS?

Where is the PROBLEM?

DW's avatar

I'm just curious… If you think people carrying drugs are terrorists, do you condone Trump's pardoning of Hernandez?

Phil Johnson's avatar

Read the UCMJ manual. It gives precisely what was done here as a flagrant example of illegal orders - shooting survivors in a ship that was set afire by military. The captain of that Nazi ship was executed, after WW II Nuremburg trial.

James A's avatar

CALLING BULLSHIT

I was a military officer. I know the UCMJ. You are just cutting and pasting.

How was the ORDER illegal? The PResident designated the boat a terror threat. DOJ review the designation. PRESIDENT gave the ordered. Hegseth run the operation.

BTW MORON, TERRORISTS are governed by GENEVA convention EITHER WAY.

Phil Johnson's avatar

I guess you were the top of your officer graduating class, right?

Calling me out by name-calling is not the way to have a civil discussion about an international incident (as best it can be labeled) And I was in the AF as an enlisted man, have no reason to "cut and past" ( you might cite what the cut-and-paste was - it was cited in an earlier post on another cite in so many words, Officer James A. You must enjoy using slurs in addressing people, SIR. Beg your pardon, SIR.

Phil Johnson's avatar

Just so we are talking about the same thing (I don't have the Geneva cite, but here's the relevant UCMJ, Officer:

UCMJ 18.3.2.1 refers to the part of the military justice code that requires servicemembers to refuse to comply with "clearly illegal orders," especially those that violate the laws of war, such as firing on shipwrecked survivors. Following such an order is not a defense, and the subordinate can be punished as a principal for the offense. The principle of Nuremberg trials established that "following orders" is not a valid defense for committing war crimes if the order was "manifestly illegal".

The President is addled and Article 25 should be invoked, is my opinion. Commander in Chief should know better. Talk about morons...

It's Come To This's avatar

"I didn't eat any cake....and screw you for asking me about it."

Phil Johnson's avatar

I got a Tks-giving card from a dear friend: a photo-shopped fat cat and he is saying, "Turkey? I didn't see any turkey".

lauriemcf's avatar

Or George Castanza -- "If I had any idea this sort of thing was frowned upon ...."

Cynthia Turner's avatar

I ate the pie and the cake.

lauriemcf's avatar

Same with Trump - "I gave the order" --> "I don't know anything about those people"

bakeneko's avatar

"This is what you in the press don’t understand. You sit in your air-conditioned offices and plant fake stories in the Washington Post."

Only because the press don't all have air-conditioned makeup rooms *like you*, you fucking alcoholic, sexual-assaulting, micro-dick, virus-occupied murdering piece of evil white shit.

Susan Tuzzolino's avatar

thanks for this; I needed this!

Jocelyn B's avatar

Well said, bakeneko!

Lani's avatar

🤣🤣🤣that’s what I was thinking!

David J. Sharp's avatar

So much to do at War Department … mascara, blusher, just the right manly shade of lipstick, Man Tan …

Jen Andrews's avatar

The fog of war?

More like the fog of utter incompetence.

Mary Gilbert's avatar

Or the fog of abject cruelty.

June A Sewell's avatar

DJT fell asleep in the cabinet meeting because they were talking about something other than DJT.

Rand Paul said Hegseth is either a liar or incompetent. Why the "or"? Hegseth is both a liar and incompetent. He's the TEA and wasn't paying attention to what was going on?

Brooks Heard's avatar

It occurred to me that if Don Trump can tear down the East Wing of the White House, Congress can surely remodel its basement to provide modern incarceration facilities for a wide variety of current administration officials who might well be found guilty of lying to Congress in the not-too-distant future. Apparently, the Capitol Police have a holding area at their headquarters, but it's quite small. The Capitol's facilities management people might be wise to make contingency plans for a sixty-to-eighty-person facility, with gender-neutral showers. 😎🥰🙏

progwoman's avatar

They lack your imagination, but I think you're onto something.

SPW's avatar

Who would have guessed that the buck would stop anywhere BUT the Resolute desk? After what Senator Kelly said today, neither Trump nor Hegseth would be worth scraping off the bottom of Kelly’s shoe.

Barbara B's avatar

Kelly for Democratic leader in the senate.

Or President.

rebecca beaton's avatar

Really great work again, Joyce—Thank you.

Eric (Ric) Redman's avatar

There are lawyers at DoD, DoJ, Homeland Security, the Navy, etc. All of them are members of bar associations in one jurisdiction or more. Did any of the relevant lawyers report to law enforcement that their client was about to commit a crime? Did any of them aid and abet in commission of the crime? In short, did the lawyers involved meet their professional obligations, and if not, who will file complaints with the bar associations of these lawyers?

JK's avatar
Dec 3Edited

No doubt whichever of the lawyers are privy to the multitude of illegal kill orders (there is no war so there are no enemy combatants) probably don't care much about their professional obligation, which is why they were not among the ones fired early on at DOD.

No doubt as well that the faux god of war DUI Pete gave the order to "kill them all," but why the hell did Bradley execute the order? Bradley should have had the sense and decency not to have obeyed. By doing so, he made everyone under his command who followed his order complicit and guilty. As the commanding officer, Bradley should have refused the order not only because it's a war crime, but also because it's his duty to protect those under his command.

So, it is the U.S. Department of Defense that is the terroristic organization in these international waters.

As usual, Congress has been willing to be stonewalled by the administration for the past three months that DOD has refused to comply with its demand for the record of the orders, but now it seems Congress has finally decided to get off its ass.

Eric (Ric) Redman's avatar

The lawyers may not care - yet. But having to respond to a Bar Assn complaint would be a wake-up call. A reality check. To deal with such a complaint takes a lot of time and attention, and if the complaint is upheld, the penalty could include disbarment. We should want govt lawyers in this particular govt to take their professional obligations seriously.

Acting Duke of Serutan's avatar

Can any U. S. citizen file such a complaint against these lawyers? They, and every other government employee, work for all of us. Civil servants, including Orangeman.

CathyP's avatar

I think in general anyone can file a complaint with a state bar, but there might be limitations on what they will consider. This information should be available on the organization's website.

In Virginia where I'm licensed (www.vsb.org), the information about filing a complaint indicates that the bar will not consider complaints government officials: "While we appreciate all information submitted to this office by concerned citizens, the disciplinary process is not a forum to review complaints against public figures involved in governmental affairs. The VSB cannot acknowledge cumulative complaints from members of the public who do not have direct, personal involvement in a matter." See https://vsb.org/Site/03_Legal-Help/misconduct-claim.aspx under "Limitations of the Complaint Process."

(That probably explains why the VA Bar declined to take any action on Lindsey Halligan - very disappointing news that I heard earlier tonight.)

Acting Duke of Serutan's avatar

Ugh, that is disappointing, Cathy. The Virginia State Bar allows malpractice by a government attorney to go unaddressed because they are afraid to tangle with Rump? Would that be true for a local prosecutor? Not here in California, local prosecutors have been disciplined by our State Bar.

CathyP's avatar

It wouldn’t surprise me if the lawyers were not consulted.

Eric (Ric) Redman's avatar

At l least one was, apparently. He told them he thought the strikes were illegal. They ignored him. But what did he do then?

Acting Duke of Serutan's avatar

Eric, where did you read this? Who was that soon to be jobless attorney? Thanks.

Doug G's avatar

Eric, isn't that why Hegseth got rid of the JAGs before this strike?

Paul Padyk's avatar

At least Nixon was worried about going to jail but here we see the effect of floating above the law. Trump can't even be bothered to feign concern because he feels untouchable. I hope I live to see that disastrous Supreme Court ruling overturned.

Marlene Lerner-Bigley (CA)'s avatar

The cabinet meeting was a staged play. Once again, we were treated to the fake praises from Donny’s members. Too bad we cannot regurgitate all over them because their dialogue is clearly nauseating.

Martin Reiter's avatar

The entire Trump era has been a staged play. It is all performance and the rubes eat it up.

Owning the libs is fun. Every outrage is their “retribution”. It is all just a great reality show.

Marlene Lerner-Bigley (CA)'s avatar

True, but only in their own minds.

Doug G's avatar

Marlene, Mobdonny is no Mamdani.

Freddie Baudat's avatar

PBS News tonight showed videos of Hegseth speaking, sitting at Trump’s left with Trump asleep, in full view. Then later, Rubio speaking, sitting on Trump’s right, again, Trump sleeping, in full view. They made no mention of Trump sleeping (and they could have cropped the image, but didn’t.) It was just all there for the viewers to see. Trump can’t complain that they improperly edited him out of his own cabinet meeting (and file a lawsuit.) 😂 Just sayin’ 🤷‍♂️

progwoman's avatar

And the News Hour also showed his calling Rep. Ilhan Omar "garbage." Twice. Will no one call him out on that?

Kathy Balles's avatar

That anti-Somali screed was an impressive bit of projection on Trump’s part.

progwoman's avatar

No president that I can remember denigrated a sitting member of Congress or a nation like that.It wasn't disapproval but denigration. I think he owes her an apology.

Lani's avatar

I watched that piece in disgust—he can’t shut up! His hate for a member of Congress is sicker—and calling her “garbage”! Can she sue him for, I dunno, defamation? Seriously! His vile remarks are grounds for dismissal—impeach this disgusting sorry excuse of a president.

Enough is enough!!!

progwoman's avatar

The NY Times mentioned his calling Somalis "garbage," but they ignored his calling Rep. Omar the same. Typical not only of his contempt for an African nation but for women.

Bill Huber's avatar

I'm no shark, but even I can smell blood in the water!

Nancy's avatar

I saw that too. The comical part was that he was snoozing through particularly cringy, over the top pandering and sucking up by Rubio and Hegseth.

Freddie Baudat's avatar

Don Moynihan of Substack “Can We Still Govern?” restacked the video of Trump sleeping and called him “anti-woke.”

Addendum: Actually he said “Trump is the anti-woke President.” Even better than what I had said above. 👆😏

Emily Elliot's avatar

Thank you for that tidbit!

Kandace Korth's avatar

Hegseth is wrong using the expression “Fog of War”. That is not what is meant by that expression. What a dullard!

progwoman's avatar

And besides, he wasn't anywhere near it.

Phil De Luca's avatar

Not one Sec'y of Defense has ever ever left a mission until it was OVER. So this is eithre a huge lie or he is totally incompetent and therefore should be immediately FIRED. "You're FIRED" and point a finger at him Donnie. So maybe you'll have a job for a few weeks when you get impeached.

Not THE APPRENTICE show But the DON the CON show. He will teach you how to grift, extort, bribe, steal, and launder money. To watch you must buy at least 10 Trump Crypto coins for $10,000 each. He will promise to share all his insider trading scams. How to have the US reimburse him for all his guilty felony counts. It will be GREAT.

Dale of Green Gables's avatar

Hogsbreath can't even use the expression "fog of war" properly let alone run the DOD. Has nothing to do with smoke and flame from an extrajudicial missile strike on a small boat. It's to do with the inherent chaos of battle and war in general, neither of which was present by any stretch of the imagination. And btw, A Ford-class carrier strike force costs roughly $7 million to $8 million per day on deployment, primarily because the Ford carrier alone costs about $8 million per day to operate. The daily total cost for U.S. military operations in the Caribbean is estimated to be at least $18 million, with some reports citing costs of up to $20 million or more on active days.