Earlier today, CNN reported that a lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered “about a dozen” documents marked classified at Pence’s home in Indiana last week.
"Bending over backwards to establish your good faith with people who have none of their own doesn’t work."
In January 2017 at the first Women's March, my sign said APPEASEMENT or IMPEACHMENT?
As a Stanford student I lived in Berlin in the early 1980s and studied that country's history and how fascism takes hold. Those studies informed my sign at the march and are why I strongly agree with Joyce's statements here!
Once again, thank you Joyce! I'm so tired of seeing officials pandering to the cons, liars and imo criminals (aka MAGAs) and treating the overwhelmingly truthful and honorable Dems as bad guys! It's gone far enough! Someone has to step up and firmly take charge! Indict the alledged criminals and leave us alone! I'm angry and our elected officials should be too and should sound like it! (And you're right, if Hunter is being investigated, Ivanka should be too! We don't know if Hunter has done anything questionable, but we sure know Ivanka has--she told us!)
I couldn't agree more. The difference between how Trump and Biden were treated is unconscionable. On May 6, 2021, the National Archives Counsel Gary M. Stern contacts Trump's three of Trump's lawyers "saying that the government had discovered that the original correspondence with Kim Jong-un and a letter that President Barack Obama had left for Mr. Trump at the White House upon leaving office are gone. One of Trump's attorney's says he'll return it, but in the meantime, Trump waves these letters at Mar-a-lago to show guests what he has. He continues to say he'll refuse returning everything. By the end of the summer 2021, they still haven't returned the letters, and Mr. Sterns threatens to send a criminal referral to the DOJ. In the meantime, they end up finding there are multiple boxes. For 20 months, they go back and forth with Trump. He sues them. He and Republicans are aghast etc. etc. August 8th, the FBI goes to Mara-a-lago to pick up the initial 12 boxes and find 15, which aren't complete. Trump fights against returning things from the get-go. On November 8, 2022, Merrick Garland appoints a special counsel to look into these documents and the Insurrection.
In Biden's case, once documents are found in early November, they end up finding more documents in a few other places. Biden returns everything they ask for. On January 23, 2023, Garland appoints a special counsel to look into this. (In a way, this is probably good because it's going to prove that Biden did nothing.)
Still, it's not only apples and oranges as Joyce wrote in an earlier post, Republicans don't let up on Biden. Trump and Congressional Republicans lie about it, spread disinformation, and nothing happens to them. And...it's not just about Hunter Biden or even Ivanka, it's about Jared and 1.4 million he received from Qatar, and the the 2 billion from the Saudi's. And, so much more!
I’m waiting to see CBS breathlessly report on the Pence news AM and PM for approximately 10 days, using fast cadence and important innuendo, before Garland caves to pressure and appoints another special counsel. This country has so many critical issues before it and the media spends its time beating the wrong issues to death instead of sparking accountability for the things that matter. I can barely watch a news program anymore.
Hopefully Congress will take a serious look at the entire classification system as you suggest and act in the best interest of our country. Also the system for tracking who has access to classified information needs to be updated. An honor system doesn’t seem to be working for higher ups while lower tier employees would face serious consequences.
If the average internet user’s innermost preferences and peccadillos can be traced and codified beyond even the self-knowledge of each tracked individual, solely for corporate, economic gain, I find it particularly incomprehensible that inanimate totems like national security documents cannot be more precisely stored, cataloged and traced through our government regardless of the level. It all seems to be a relative matter of risk vs reward. The only conclusion I can then draw is that the sole payoff we net for our phenomenally sloppy handling of records and documents is a surfeit of energy for the political outrage mills that currently overheat our “political discourse” in the early 21st century. Why else would the totality of this story merit all the sweat and palaver that it already has?
Slightly OT: I worked as a contractor for the Fed. A nobody in a headset. My FBI screening took an entire day. A colleague went to prison for taking and using client info. And yet we have the Santos, Greene, Gosar folks who seemingly got their little congressional lapel pins with no review whatsoever. We vet VP candidates for weeks prior to announcing a running mate. Why isn't anyone filtering out the stench before it even gets close to our Capitol? Why is the ONE PERSON we know stole documents not in prison, like any of us would be? Doesn't seem like it should fall to the media, but no area of government is stepping up. Just like online sleuths identified scores of J6 insurrectionists, I will be vetting as candidates emerge for the next cycle. I made nearly 15000 DNC calls prior to mid-terms. Next time, I will spend my time vetting everyone!
I think the system is fine, it's the implementation that needs to be taken seriously by senior leaders/staff and by personnel. (I say this as someone who worked hard to communicate the importance of timely records management, and watched senior leaders and staff blow it off to the point that it took national direction for it to get cleaned up, and some of the records were 10 years out of date. Accountability. The rules are fine, it's the blowing off of responsibility that bugs me.
PS... Pence, Biden and Trump all had Chief's of Staff who should be on the hook for letting that happen.
But it goes back to tracking docs that are missing from NARA. They should know immediately what is outstanding especially at the end of a presidential term. They failed in all three situations.
If you've ever worked in government, you'd know how preposterous it is to expect the govt to keep track of every piece of paper. Millions of documents come in and go out every day.
What we need to stay focused on is not the documents but the fact that a former president had a shitload of classified materials in his possession and refused to return them.
The DOJ has been fiddling while Rome burns. The classified document debacle pales in contrast to the burning of the Bundestag from within. The insurrectionists in Congress should have been challenged much sooner. Now, we have a House of Representatives that has been turned into a little house of horrors with the very same insurrectionist in power and about to make a mockery of responsible governance.
Allowing the criminal and seditious behavior to go unchecked only emboldens the perpetrators and normalizes their behaviors.
This classified document stuff is beginning to sound like a bad joke...engineered by people trying to normalize Trumps behavior. All trumps properties need to be searched , as well as Ivanas grave.
Everyone needs to read "The Scheme" by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse on the capture of the Supreme Court by dark money! For me it is imperative now to make people aware of what Senator Whitehouse has put together that explains why the Extreme Court is no longer working for the People but for the plutocracy of a few men and corporations of the super rich. This is shaking me to the core. We need a Teddy Roosevelt to stop the monopolies and stop them reversing the New Deal and all our rights!
You can see the signs of all of this everywhere - the climate deniers funded by fossil fuel corporations, the shortage of baby formula because one company owns most of the production closed because of unsanitary conditions, the less than subsistence paychecks of workers and the demoralization of working in the corporate world, even the parking lots with cars that only come in white, black, gray and red colors (Give them any color they want as long as it is black. - Henry Ford), the reversal of environmental protection laws, farms owned by monopolies taking every cent they can away from the farmers, deregulation in general, voter suppression, the DARK MONEY behind all of it.
“Democrats negotiate against themselves with Trump at every turn, hoping to placate him, and, of course, never succeeding because his complaints are inherently unreasonable and not grounded in fact; he uses them as a ruse to avoid accountability for his misdeeds.”
Basta! Fartig! Enough! It’s totally pointless to placate these people.
Thank you Joyce for sharing your understanding of the situation. I always look forward to getting your discourse. OH btw. I am going to pick up crocheting again. (Been a looong time.) It's going to be a crazy ride for the next 2 years!!
Thank you. I loved reading this. You pull the threads together so eloquently and make the events of the day so much easier to understand.
"Bending over backwards to establish your good faith with people who have none of their own doesn’t work."
In January 2017 at the first Women's March, my sign said APPEASEMENT or IMPEACHMENT?
As a Stanford student I lived in Berlin in the early 1980s and studied that country's history and how fascism takes hold. Those studies informed my sign at the march and are why I strongly agree with Joyce's statements here!
All Biden’s homes and offices have been searched.
Only MAR specifically in search warrant was searched. What about the rest.
Trump tower and Bedminster should be searched too.
Still giving trump unwarranted slack.
Truth and his building in Chicago. There are reports that Eric comes here quite frequently to check on things.
Absolutely!
Agree
Once again, thank you Joyce! I'm so tired of seeing officials pandering to the cons, liars and imo criminals (aka MAGAs) and treating the overwhelmingly truthful and honorable Dems as bad guys! It's gone far enough! Someone has to step up and firmly take charge! Indict the alledged criminals and leave us alone! I'm angry and our elected officials should be too and should sound like it! (And you're right, if Hunter is being investigated, Ivanka should be too! We don't know if Hunter has done anything questionable, but we sure know Ivanka has--she told us!)
Not to mention Jared too.
I couldn't agree more. The difference between how Trump and Biden were treated is unconscionable. On May 6, 2021, the National Archives Counsel Gary M. Stern contacts Trump's three of Trump's lawyers "saying that the government had discovered that the original correspondence with Kim Jong-un and a letter that President Barack Obama had left for Mr. Trump at the White House upon leaving office are gone. One of Trump's attorney's says he'll return it, but in the meantime, Trump waves these letters at Mar-a-lago to show guests what he has. He continues to say he'll refuse returning everything. By the end of the summer 2021, they still haven't returned the letters, and Mr. Sterns threatens to send a criminal referral to the DOJ. In the meantime, they end up finding there are multiple boxes. For 20 months, they go back and forth with Trump. He sues them. He and Republicans are aghast etc. etc. August 8th, the FBI goes to Mara-a-lago to pick up the initial 12 boxes and find 15, which aren't complete. Trump fights against returning things from the get-go. On November 8, 2022, Merrick Garland appoints a special counsel to look into these documents and the Insurrection.
In Biden's case, once documents are found in early November, they end up finding more documents in a few other places. Biden returns everything they ask for. On January 23, 2023, Garland appoints a special counsel to look into this. (In a way, this is probably good because it's going to prove that Biden did nothing.)
Still, it's not only apples and oranges as Joyce wrote in an earlier post, Republicans don't let up on Biden. Trump and Congressional Republicans lie about it, spread disinformation, and nothing happens to them. And...it's not just about Hunter Biden or even Ivanka, it's about Jared and 1.4 million he received from Qatar, and the the 2 billion from the Saudi's. And, so much more!
I’m waiting to see CBS breathlessly report on the Pence news AM and PM for approximately 10 days, using fast cadence and important innuendo, before Garland caves to pressure and appoints another special counsel. This country has so many critical issues before it and the media spends its time beating the wrong issues to death instead of sparking accountability for the things that matter. I can barely watch a news program anymore.
Can I just say thank god for Joyce Vance and her honest, clear-eyed way of cutting through the bs and spin and calling out the facts.
Hopefully Congress will take a serious look at the entire classification system as you suggest and act in the best interest of our country. Also the system for tracking who has access to classified information needs to be updated. An honor system doesn’t seem to be working for higher ups while lower tier employees would face serious consequences.
If the average internet user’s innermost preferences and peccadillos can be traced and codified beyond even the self-knowledge of each tracked individual, solely for corporate, economic gain, I find it particularly incomprehensible that inanimate totems like national security documents cannot be more precisely stored, cataloged and traced through our government regardless of the level. It all seems to be a relative matter of risk vs reward. The only conclusion I can then draw is that the sole payoff we net for our phenomenally sloppy handling of records and documents is a surfeit of energy for the political outrage mills that currently overheat our “political discourse” in the early 21st century. Why else would the totality of this story merit all the sweat and palaver that it already has?
Slightly OT: I worked as a contractor for the Fed. A nobody in a headset. My FBI screening took an entire day. A colleague went to prison for taking and using client info. And yet we have the Santos, Greene, Gosar folks who seemingly got their little congressional lapel pins with no review whatsoever. We vet VP candidates for weeks prior to announcing a running mate. Why isn't anyone filtering out the stench before it even gets close to our Capitol? Why is the ONE PERSON we know stole documents not in prison, like any of us would be? Doesn't seem like it should fall to the media, but no area of government is stepping up. Just like online sleuths identified scores of J6 insurrectionists, I will be vetting as candidates emerge for the next cycle. I made nearly 15000 DNC calls prior to mid-terms. Next time, I will spend my time vetting everyone!
Seems that yet another system needs an overhaul!
I think the system is fine, it's the implementation that needs to be taken seriously by senior leaders/staff and by personnel. (I say this as someone who worked hard to communicate the importance of timely records management, and watched senior leaders and staff blow it off to the point that it took national direction for it to get cleaned up, and some of the records were 10 years out of date. Accountability. The rules are fine, it's the blowing off of responsibility that bugs me.
PS... Pence, Biden and Trump all had Chief's of Staff who should be on the hook for letting that happen.
But it goes back to tracking docs that are missing from NARA. They should know immediately what is outstanding especially at the end of a presidential term. They failed in all three situations.
If you've ever worked in government, you'd know how preposterous it is to expect the govt to keep track of every piece of paper. Millions of documents come in and go out every day.
What we need to stay focused on is not the documents but the fact that a former president had a shitload of classified materials in his possession and refused to return them.
The DOJ has been fiddling while Rome burns. The classified document debacle pales in contrast to the burning of the Bundestag from within. The insurrectionists in Congress should have been challenged much sooner. Now, we have a House of Representatives that has been turned into a little house of horrors with the very same insurrectionist in power and about to make a mockery of responsible governance.
Allowing the criminal and seditious behavior to go unchecked only emboldens the perpetrators and normalizes their behaviors.
Couldn't agree more!
This classified document stuff is beginning to sound like a bad joke...engineered by people trying to normalize Trumps behavior. All trumps properties need to be searched , as well as Ivanas grave.
Everyone needs to read "The Scheme" by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse on the capture of the Supreme Court by dark money! For me it is imperative now to make people aware of what Senator Whitehouse has put together that explains why the Extreme Court is no longer working for the People but for the plutocracy of a few men and corporations of the super rich. This is shaking me to the core. We need a Teddy Roosevelt to stop the monopolies and stop them reversing the New Deal and all our rights!
You can see the signs of all of this everywhere - the climate deniers funded by fossil fuel corporations, the shortage of baby formula because one company owns most of the production closed because of unsanitary conditions, the less than subsistence paychecks of workers and the demoralization of working in the corporate world, even the parking lots with cars that only come in white, black, gray and red colors (Give them any color they want as long as it is black. - Henry Ford), the reversal of environmental protection laws, farms owned by monopolies taking every cent they can away from the farmers, deregulation in general, voter suppression, the DARK MONEY behind all of it.
READ "THE SCHEME" by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse!
Only entropy comes easy—Anton Chekhov.
And it is ALWAYS increasing!
Yes, both wanting to do only what is easy and entropy.
Only life goes against entropy, for awhile at least. It would be nice to see a little more life in the arenas you mention.
Joyce, I love how you knit these yarns together to make me a nice, warm blanket of explanation!
THIS!
“Democrats negotiate against themselves with Trump at every turn, hoping to placate him, and, of course, never succeeding because his complaints are inherently unreasonable and not grounded in fact; he uses them as a ruse to avoid accountability for his misdeeds.”
Basta! Fartig! Enough! It’s totally pointless to placate these people.
Thank you Joyce for sharing your understanding of the situation. I always look forward to getting your discourse. OH btw. I am going to pick up crocheting again. (Been a looong time.) It's going to be a crazy ride for the next 2 years!!
but surely interesting and a learning curve for all of us.
I could have a little less interesting. Looking forward to people being held accountable.