I've often wondered about the reality that sitting members of Congress were (are?) able to view the UNREDACTED files and whether or not they are blocked from sharing what they find. I know Jaimie Raskin looked at them and said Trump's name appeared OVER one million times in the unredacted files (and, of course, that's just in the half that have been made public). Will these files be made public if the judge finds (of course he will) that Blanche has been cheating?
Our citizens no longer can presume that what they hear or read from Blanche and Bondi are true. Just imagine. They have chiseled away at the very foundations of the DOJ. Confirming Blanche to the top job would be an act of historic stupidity.
Sure thing, but when? We keep going around in circle. Issue orders, make rulings, no compliance to orders/ rulings, then no consequence(s) for the non-compliance.
Thanks Joyce for breaking all this down so that all us non-lawyers can fully understand. Your sharing of your legal expertise is very much appreciated.The Judge wasn’t buying what the DOJ was trying to sell and with the fact that the DOJ has shown time and time again that they can’t be believed and will do anything to not comply with his ruling.
Judge Sullivan’s order shows how the "presumption of regularity" is required to operate. We should not presume or pretend that our public servants aren't violating the law when they provide evidence that they are violating the law. We must presume that public servants are serving the interests of the public until they provide evidence that they're not. When purported public servants are abusing our courts to violate our Constitution and their oaths to "support and defend" the "Constitution" (see https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3331), no judge should or can presume or pretend otherwise.
No presumption ever was intended (and it cannot legally) replace actual evidence. A presumption means only that the other party "has the burden of producing evidence to rebut the presumption." See Rule 301 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure ("In a civil case, unless a federal statute or these rules provide otherwise, the party against whom a presumption is directed" (e.g., a party being opposed by the DOJ) merely "has the burden of producing evidence to rebut the presumption.")
The most powerful presumption in American law is the presumption of innocence of a criminal defendant. But it's well-understood that even that presumption can be rebutted with evidence (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).
The sad truth is that it's not true that "Before Trump [ ] courts were able to rely on representations made by the Justice Department. Every lawyer for the government understood they owed the courts a duty of candor; everything they said in court must be true to the best of their knowledge and swiftly corrected if they subsequently became aware of additional information."
This case highlights an institutional problem that transcends party affiliations. DOJ attorneys have long abused--egregiously abused--the presumption of regularity (or the related "presumption of good faith"). DOJ attorneys do so on a remarkably regular basis to conceal evidence from the public in FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) cases. A good example was CREW v. DOJ. That was a good example because the judge took the very rare step of exposing the lies--the actual perjury in sworn declarations--of DOJ attorneys trying to conceal evidence by abusing the presumption of regularity or the presumption of good faith. See https://www.citizensforethics.org/legal-action/letters/crew-calls-on-doj-inspector-general-to-investigate-foia-politicization/.
It's well worth thinking about how pervasive such illegal (or even criminal) tactics have to become at the DOJ before high-level DOJ attorneys dare to use them in such high-profile cases. High-profile cases and when DOJ attorneys are facing formidable opposing counsel are when DOJ attorneys are particularly likely to be on their best behavior.
This is fantastic, Joyce! Bravo to Katie Phang for bringing this suit, and for the no nonsense attitude of this judge! And thank YOU for articulating all of this so well for us.
FINALLY, thanks to Katie Phang, the ball is beginning to move with respect to the Epstein files. One can only HOPE that this judge is successful in getting that ball across the goal line. It's obvious to MOST Americans that trump is in the Epstein files thousands of times, and there are pictures of him there with young girls, and that cannot be denied. I wish former Prince Andrew would find the courage to start helping since he has nothing much left to lose. From reading, I understand that some people who were active in some way with Epstein & acquiring young girls for him are dying off. That may or may not be important, but one has to wonder. I'll cross my fingers & hope Katie's attempt here ends up putting smiles on our faces, and by that I mean that it may send someone packing his diapers & heading off to Saudi Arabia never to be seen again. Or an even better ending here in America.....thanks, Joyce. I yield back my time.
How welcome do we think Trump would be in Saudi Arabia after his recent reneging on the signed sealed delivered thirty year "civilian" nuclear agreement? He's antagonized almost every country on the planet.
Hallelujah, Judge Sullivan!! Joyce, thank you for a very clear explanation of what the Judge expects from Blanche and the DOJ. I also want to thank Katie Phang for pushing the envelope for the victims.
Some commentators have noted that the vast majority of Americans are worried about the rising costs of gas, food, rent, insurance, healthcare, etc. They feel these effects every day. However, in comparison, they hardly care about Trump aggrandizing more power, firing federal employees, shutting agencies, federalizing elections, hiding Epstein files, or disregarding court orders.
BUT BLANCHE AND DOJ LAWYERS REFUSING TO OBEY COURT ORDERS SHOULD BE OUR MOST IMPORTANT CONCERN. Trump is calling the shots, telling them to disobey the courts. AND THIS STRIKES AT THE HEART OF OUR SOCIETY. If the government refuses to obey the law, then the “rule of law” is meaningless — and government officials like Trump and his appointees can act arbitrarily, capriciously, irrationally, unreasonably, selfishly, and corruptly.
I hope the vast majority of Americans will recognize that there is a DIRECT CAUSAL LINK between the way Trump has run our government — his arrogant lawlessness, incompetence and misfeasances — and the dire economic, health and environmental situations the vast majority of Americans are suffering.
We are witnessing the destruction of our Justice system front and center. When I try and talk with people about this I always, for the most part, get a cold shoulder, which baffles the shit out of me. If this is allowed to continue it will eventually continue down through all the other courts...............until there is no faith in any court of law. We're almost there.
Looks like we have another judge with backbone; I’m reminded of Judge Sirica during Watergate. In the former case the tapes were eventually turned over. Everything about Blanche’s behavior suggests he may still try to delay - that’s understandable since the files will almost surely spell doom to the client he has merged with and therefore the end of his career as well. (One has to wonder about his thought processes that led him to resign from a prestigious law firm to take a client known to be a chronic liar and to have no problem with unlawful behavior). So what will Judge Sullivan do in that eventuality? I’m sure he is already thinking about this:, I believe he has the authority to have Blanche arrested and put in jail until he complies. It would be a sweet thing for a law enforcement official who has been instrumental in the arrest of large numbers of people including citizens and denied due process to experience the stress he has inflicted on so many.
@ Blueboomer. Not true. Can fine, garnish, otherwise compel.
AI Overview
Penalties for civil contempt of court are coercive and remedial measures designed to force compliance with a judicial order, including coercive daily fines, compensatory financial awards, and coercive incarceration. Unlike criminal penalties, civil sanctions end the moment the person chooses to obey the court.
I'd wager that Netanyahu has a clean copy that he holds over trump's head to get our military to help him in his wars. Putin may or may not have a copy, too. I guess it was too much for me to wish that former Prince Andrew would fall on his sword and tell us all about trump's naughty behavior on the island.
Let's hope this latest court order isn't summarily ignored like all the rest. When is the entire corrupted system and those who keep plundering it going to finally collapse under its own weight?
Thank you for the details of what is being requested AND what is expected in this matter, Joyce. And thanks to Katie Phang who is relentless in seeking justice for the survivors.
Judge Sullivan has been very specific. Blanche is said to be a smart man. He must know that he has crossed one too many lines at this point. One would think a sense of self preservation would be evident. His loyalty is misplaced. He has reached an immovable wall in Judge Sullivan. If Blanche really is smart, he will comply with the order. If he does not, I hope the consequences are swift and sure under the law.
Tough choice. If the documents are not as they have been represented, then hasn’t Blanche been lying to the court? Wouldn’t that be a disbarment offense?
What will happen if they refuse to comply? What recourse is there for the courts? Can they send Marshalls to bring in Todd Blanche or the President? What are the consequences? What if everyone just says no or says nothing at all as they proceed with the illegal behavior? Can the DOJ in turn send Marshalls to take the judge into custody? What does either option look like here?
I am pretty sure the US Marshals have been “turned” and work for Trump now. All maga loyalists.
The United States Marshals Service (USMS) is a federal law enforcement agency under the United States Department of Justice. It operates under the direction of the United States attorney general. It is tasked with enforcing the decisions of and providing protection for the United States federal judiciary.
Trump's tactics his whole life is to delay negative outcomes as long as possible with whatever delaying tactics he can use or to sue people who can't afford to fight back forever. We really need to do something about our legal system.
And I am greatly saddened to be at the point where I don't really trust most of our government and media is getting to be largely too weak or too in bed with the administration to do hard-hitting investigative journalism.
I totally agree with both of your paragraphs. His delaying tactics are unbelievable. I read a headline this past week that now, he is trying to force E. Jean Carroll to return the money she received to escrow until he finishes trying to get SCOTUS to reconsider the case. The man-child has absolutely NO moral compass whatsoever--a malignant narcissist.
As for Congress, I often imagine sending every member a pair of golf balls with a note stating, "I hope these will serve as an inspiration for you to grow a pair."
As for the media, I am glad I have the options of reruns of Andy Griffith and In the Heat of the Night, and/or movies on TCM.
These comments reflect the level of my feelings of deception, skepticism, and cynicism.
It’s amazing how long Blanche and company have been able to kick this can down the road. It’s about time THEIR can gets kicked.
I've often wondered about the reality that sitting members of Congress were (are?) able to view the UNREDACTED files and whether or not they are blocked from sharing what they find. I know Jaimie Raskin looked at them and said Trump's name appeared OVER one million times in the unredacted files (and, of course, that's just in the half that have been made public). Will these files be made public if the judge finds (of course he will) that Blanche has been cheating?
Our citizens no longer can presume that what they hear or read from Blanche and Bondi are true. Just imagine. They have chiseled away at the very foundations of the DOJ. Confirming Blanche to the top job would be an act of historic stupidity.
And, how many decades will it take to restore the public’s trust in our justice system?
Nonetheless, that's precisely what I fully expect the Republicans to do.
Yes I agree
Me, too!
Among many other acts of historic stupidity that we witness virtually every day!
They can no longer presume that what they hear from anyone in the Trump administration is true? That is my understanding.
Lie to me once, shame on you. Lie to me over and over again, it's time for action.
Instead if kicking the can down the road they should be in the can.
Sure thing, but when? We keep going around in circle. Issue orders, make rulings, no compliance to orders/ rulings, then no consequence(s) for the non-compliance.
They'll NEVER get their asses kicked b/c they are WHITE!!
Thanks Joyce for breaking all this down so that all us non-lawyers can fully understand. Your sharing of your legal expertise is very much appreciated.The Judge wasn’t buying what the DOJ was trying to sell and with the fact that the DOJ has shown time and time again that they can’t be believed and will do anything to not comply with his ruling.
Judge Sullivan’s order shows how the "presumption of regularity" is required to operate. We should not presume or pretend that our public servants aren't violating the law when they provide evidence that they are violating the law. We must presume that public servants are serving the interests of the public until they provide evidence that they're not. When purported public servants are abusing our courts to violate our Constitution and their oaths to "support and defend" the "Constitution" (see https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3331), no judge should or can presume or pretend otherwise.
No presumption ever was intended (and it cannot legally) replace actual evidence. A presumption means only that the other party "has the burden of producing evidence to rebut the presumption." See Rule 301 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure ("In a civil case, unless a federal statute or these rules provide otherwise, the party against whom a presumption is directed" (e.g., a party being opposed by the DOJ) merely "has the burden of producing evidence to rebut the presumption.")
The most powerful presumption in American law is the presumption of innocence of a criminal defendant. But it's well-understood that even that presumption can be rebutted with evidence (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).
The sad truth is that it's not true that "Before Trump [ ] courts were able to rely on representations made by the Justice Department. Every lawyer for the government understood they owed the courts a duty of candor; everything they said in court must be true to the best of their knowledge and swiftly corrected if they subsequently became aware of additional information."
This case highlights an institutional problem that transcends party affiliations. DOJ attorneys have long abused--egregiously abused--the presumption of regularity (or the related "presumption of good faith"). DOJ attorneys do so on a remarkably regular basis to conceal evidence from the public in FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) cases. A good example was CREW v. DOJ. That was a good example because the judge took the very rare step of exposing the lies--the actual perjury in sworn declarations--of DOJ attorneys trying to conceal evidence by abusing the presumption of regularity or the presumption of good faith. See https://www.citizensforethics.org/legal-action/letters/crew-calls-on-doj-inspector-general-to-investigate-foia-politicization/.
Another particularly powerful example was the high-level DOJ attorney who was prosecuted criminally for lying to a judge and actually fabricating evidence (manipulating the content of an email). See https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/fbi-attorney-admits-altering-email-used-fisa-application-during-crossfire-hurricane.
It's well worth thinking about how pervasive such illegal (or even criminal) tactics have to become at the DOJ before high-level DOJ attorneys dare to use them in such high-profile cases. High-profile cases and when DOJ attorneys are facing formidable opposing counsel are when DOJ attorneys are particularly likely to be on their best behavior.
Seems like a perfect time for Crews to be used.
I concur :)
Ditto!
This is fantastic, Joyce! Bravo to Katie Phang for bringing this suit, and for the no nonsense attitude of this judge! And thank YOU for articulating all of this so well for us.
FINALLY, thanks to Katie Phang, the ball is beginning to move with respect to the Epstein files. One can only HOPE that this judge is successful in getting that ball across the goal line. It's obvious to MOST Americans that trump is in the Epstein files thousands of times, and there are pictures of him there with young girls, and that cannot be denied. I wish former Prince Andrew would find the courage to start helping since he has nothing much left to lose. From reading, I understand that some people who were active in some way with Epstein & acquiring young girls for him are dying off. That may or may not be important, but one has to wonder. I'll cross my fingers & hope Katie's attempt here ends up putting smiles on our faces, and by that I mean that it may send someone packing his diapers & heading off to Saudi Arabia never to be seen again. Or an even better ending here in America.....thanks, Joyce. I yield back my time.
How welcome do we think Trump would be in Saudi Arabia after his recent reneging on the signed sealed delivered thirty year "civilian" nuclear agreement? He's antagonized almost every country on the planet.
Hallelujah, Judge Sullivan!! Joyce, thank you for a very clear explanation of what the Judge expects from Blanche and the DOJ. I also want to thank Katie Phang for pushing the envelope for the victims.
Some commentators have noted that the vast majority of Americans are worried about the rising costs of gas, food, rent, insurance, healthcare, etc. They feel these effects every day. However, in comparison, they hardly care about Trump aggrandizing more power, firing federal employees, shutting agencies, federalizing elections, hiding Epstein files, or disregarding court orders.
BUT BLANCHE AND DOJ LAWYERS REFUSING TO OBEY COURT ORDERS SHOULD BE OUR MOST IMPORTANT CONCERN. Trump is calling the shots, telling them to disobey the courts. AND THIS STRIKES AT THE HEART OF OUR SOCIETY. If the government refuses to obey the law, then the “rule of law” is meaningless — and government officials like Trump and his appointees can act arbitrarily, capriciously, irrationally, unreasonably, selfishly, and corruptly.
I hope the vast majority of Americans will recognize that there is a DIRECT CAUSAL LINK between the way Trump has run our government — his arrogant lawlessness, incompetence and misfeasances — and the dire economic, health and environmental situations the vast majority of Americans are suffering.
We are witnessing the destruction of our Justice system front and center. When I try and talk with people about this I always, for the most part, get a cold shoulder, which baffles the shit out of me. If this is allowed to continue it will eventually continue down through all the other courts...............until there is no faith in any court of law. We're almost there.
Well stated.
Katie Phang is a hero for doing this.
Looks like we have another judge with backbone; I’m reminded of Judge Sirica during Watergate. In the former case the tapes were eventually turned over. Everything about Blanche’s behavior suggests he may still try to delay - that’s understandable since the files will almost surely spell doom to the client he has merged with and therefore the end of his career as well. (One has to wonder about his thought processes that led him to resign from a prestigious law firm to take a client known to be a chronic liar and to have no problem with unlawful behavior). So what will Judge Sullivan do in that eventuality? I’m sure he is already thinking about this:, I believe he has the authority to have Blanche arrested and put in jail until he complies. It would be a sweet thing for a law enforcement official who has been instrumental in the arrest of large numbers of people including citizens and denied due process to experience the stress he has inflicted on so many.
What happens if they just don’t comply? Is contempt the only option? That’s a weak penalty
Those are both key questions. And the answers are far from certain.
Or, what if they submit altered documents?
@ Blueboomer. Not true. Can fine, garnish, otherwise compel.
AI Overview
Penalties for civil contempt of court are coercive and remedial measures designed to force compliance with a judicial order, including coercive daily fines, compensatory financial awards, and coercive incarceration. Unlike criminal penalties, civil sanctions end the moment the person chooses to obey the court.
This is significant, but my tired cynical mind thinks that all the incriminating files have long been destroyed.
I'd wager that Netanyahu has a clean copy that he holds over trump's head to get our military to help him in his wars. Putin may or may not have a copy, too. I guess it was too much for me to wish that former Prince Andrew would fall on his sword and tell us all about trump's naughty behavior on the island.
Every name on the "To" lines of emails has a copy ... think about that salient fact for one minute.
Good point. And everyone on the FROM line too.
Blanche should not be confirmed under any circumstances, but perhaps the prospect will insure his compliance.
Let's hope this latest court order isn't summarily ignored like all the rest. When is the entire corrupted system and those who keep plundering it going to finally collapse under its own weight?
Thank you for the details of what is being requested AND what is expected in this matter, Joyce. And thanks to Katie Phang who is relentless in seeking justice for the survivors.
Judge Sullivan has been very specific. Blanche is said to be a smart man. He must know that he has crossed one too many lines at this point. One would think a sense of self preservation would be evident. His loyalty is misplaced. He has reached an immovable wall in Judge Sullivan. If Blanche really is smart, he will comply with the order. If he does not, I hope the consequences are swift and sure under the law.
Tough choice. If the documents are not as they have been represented, then hasn’t Blanche been lying to the court? Wouldn’t that be a disbarment offense?
What will happen if they refuse to comply? What recourse is there for the courts? Can they send Marshalls to bring in Todd Blanche or the President? What are the consequences? What if everyone just says no or says nothing at all as they proceed with the illegal behavior? Can the DOJ in turn send Marshalls to take the judge into custody? What does either option look like here?
I am pretty sure the US Marshals have been “turned” and work for Trump now. All maga loyalists.
The United States Marshals Service (USMS) is a federal law enforcement agency under the United States Department of Justice. It operates under the direction of the United States attorney general. It is tasked with enforcing the decisions of and providing protection for the United States federal judiciary.
Once again the courts act in the name of justice while the DoJ blusters and sulks. With a soupçon of misrepresentation.
Trump's tactics his whole life is to delay negative outcomes as long as possible with whatever delaying tactics he can use or to sue people who can't afford to fight back forever. We really need to do something about our legal system.
And I am greatly saddened to be at the point where I don't really trust most of our government and media is getting to be largely too weak or too in bed with the administration to do hard-hitting investigative journalism.
Lynne:
I totally agree with both of your paragraphs. His delaying tactics are unbelievable. I read a headline this past week that now, he is trying to force E. Jean Carroll to return the money she received to escrow until he finishes trying to get SCOTUS to reconsider the case. The man-child has absolutely NO moral compass whatsoever--a malignant narcissist.
As for Congress, I often imagine sending every member a pair of golf balls with a note stating, "I hope these will serve as an inspiration for you to grow a pair."
As for the media, I am glad I have the options of reruns of Andy Griffith and In the Heat of the Night, and/or movies on TCM.
These comments reflect the level of my feelings of deception, skepticism, and cynicism.