273 Comments
User's avatar
Bonnie Svarstad's avatar

Prof, you mentioned people being treated like cattle. I must question your language. I grew up on a midwestern farm with cattle. I cannot recall a single instance of cattle being treated this way by family or neighbors. We would have been shocked out of our minds to see or hear of it anywhere in our state.

Phil Johnson's avatar

We are having a NK town meeting this Saturday at 10 AM and one every bi-weekly Sat. after that until this chaos gets straightened up in CA (Boulder Creek).

Ned McDoodle's avatar

¡Bravò, Phil, bravò!🫱🏻‍🫲🏽

Margaret's avatar

That is a great idea. If people are seeing each face to face it is easier to get things done! Also you care more when you know them.

Swbv's avatar

Right, cattle treated like that would be worth pennies on the dollar at auction. Maybe ICE and Mr. Johnson just don't care.

James Coyle's avatar

No maybe about it 😡

Jon Rosen's avatar

The difference being that ICE doesn't have to sell its human "cattle" at auction. It just ships them off to the hellhole prisons in El Salvador. No need to treat the "cattle" decently if you don't care about making a profit.

David J. Sharp's avatar

I second the moo-tion!

dee's avatar

I think the point Prof JOYce was trying to make was how people are being directed and moved as a herd to a destination unknown

Bonnie Svarstad's avatar

Good point, Dee. I’m not making judgments about Prof Joyce…I respect her greatly. I simply encourage more thoughtful language. BTW, I cannot recall a single farmer ever trying to “herd” cattle by spraying them in the eyes with a noxious liquid in hopes they would move on to the barn. Any farmer who was that foolish would be in serious trouble.

Cissna, Ken's avatar

Much less beating them in the head so much that they have fractures of face and head, front and back, side to side. And then they say he got that way by deliberately running into a brick wall. Sure

Nancy's avatar

And no legal repercussions--yet!

Shirley's avatar

I suspect that ICE agents (and their bosses) are the type of people who DO treat their cattle (and goats and dogs) the way they've been treating people.

Bill's avatar

see puppy kicked by ICE agent in the news this morning. It is the Noem way.

Karen Peper's avatar

What I would ask further is why human animals' treatment toward nonhuman animals is so often held up as horror, yet there's very infrequent questioning as to why human animals feel compelled (entitled?) to harm and kill nonhuman animals. We don't need their flesh to live, we don't need to kill for 'sport'-- so what is it that's inherently aggressive and violent in human animals? A tendency toward aggression and violence that, inevitably, we choose to direct at other human animals as well? Further, why is this aggression and violence mostly driven by the males of our species? Higher levels of testosterone?

Jon Rosen's avatar

Actually Karen, most of us DO need their flesh to live. Humans are carnivore by nature, and most of us do enjoy it, sorry if that offends you. We are involved in a serious political battle right now about the survival of our country and our way of life and trying to spark a vegan vs carnivore debate in the middle of that is a very misleading and precarious route to joint action. I would ask that you refrain from this notion in an arena like this where I expect many of us are meat-lovers. You be you, let us be us. I grant you the right to be vegan or vegetarian, but I would ask that you respect my right to not join you. This is the same as the abortion debate, i.e., as a pro-choicer, I would grant anyone the right to NOT have an abortion, as long as they respected my right to choose one (or my partner to choose one). WE need to respect the differences that bring us together or we will all end up awash in Trumpland.

Karen Peper's avatar

Actually we are omnivores, not "carnivores by nature." This means we are adapted to consume either plant-based or flesh-based foods. All nutrients except B-12 can be gotten from plant-based food. It's a choice to eat either exclusively plants or flesh or some combo of. I'm not trying to 'spark a debate' but really trying to get to the underlying issues about the violence we are seeing in the US today. Questioning why we accept this casual taking of a sentient life when it's a choice, not a necessity, goes to the center of exploring why human-on-human violence is seen as 'necessary' and 'acceptable' in some Trumpland mindsets.

lauriemcf's avatar

As a very long time vegetarian I agree! And I take a B-12 supplement daily! My husband is a true carnivore -- I make no judgments about that.

Carol T Cox (NJ to VA to FL)'s avatar

I agree with you, Jon, that we need to respect our differences. We each have a specific blood type, and each of us, therefore, requires a different diet to function at our optimal best. Eat Right 4 Your Type: The Individualized Blood Type Diet Solution by Dr. Peter J. D’Adamo explains how and why each blood type evolved and why the proper diet is helpful. My husband, a type O, always had to have meat in his diet, whereas I, a type A, gravitated toward being a vegetarian. When I read about blood types, it all made sense to me. It’s like everything else regarding human behavior. We are each wired differently, which is why generalization that includes discrimination toward the other is simply not acceptable.

Jack Jordan's avatar

Good point, Bonnie. Visuals are crucial. Jen Rubin (The Contrarian) hit the nail on the head by describing Alex Pretti’s murder as an "execution."

The visual created by Paul Revere depicting the Boston Massacre was extremely powerful in motivating Americans to oppose tyranny. It might be equally inspiring to see a comparable video that showed the last few seconds of Pretti's life and the two shooters who shot him. I mean a video without all the other ICE guys blocking our view that clearly showed Pretti on his knees with his killers standing behind him blasting away at him as if they were in some kind of mob movie. The audio should include Trump boasting in 2016 that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue with impunity. That should be the visual of the Trump presidency that Americans have in mind (perhaps juxtaposed with Trump's gaudy gold renovations of the White House to make it resemble Versailles).

Joe Tye's avatar

I live in rural Iowa and see my neighbor's cattle roaming free across the pastures. Contrast that with the image of Republican Prison Porn Star Kristi Noem standing in front of a cage that will serve as a slow-motion extermination camp for the men imprisoned within.

Martin Reiter's avatar

I guess you didn’t live near Killer Kristi.

Bonnie Svarstad's avatar

Actually, Kristi Noem grew up on a farm near Watertown SD —or about 95 miles from the SD farm where I grew up. I guess she’s forgotten a lot…sad.

Jon Rosen's avatar

Remember, she shot her dog.

Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

How about "chattel"? It sounds like "cattle" but keeps the focus on the fact that both the perps and the victims are human, and that humans have a long, long history of forgetting and/or ignoring that.

James Quinn's avatar

The correct term would be treated as sub-humans. Designating those to be ‘dealt with’ in such fashion as less than fully human has been the standard way in which dictatorships have justified such treatment since the dawn of civilization, and well beyond.

Fran Bowman's avatar

Thanks Joyce. Here in West Sacramento CA we have a monthly anti-ICE protest on a very busy street corner during rush hour. We were out again yesterday, making good trouble.

Sharon C Storm's avatar

I live in South Jersey, and we have a protest every Friday on a very busy street. I’m 85, so it’s very dangerous for me to go out in sub freezing weather. Lately, it has been very cold, with high temperatures in the lower to mid 20s, so I stay home. They are still out there, though, and I am with them in spirit.

Francesca Reitano's avatar

I think we’re called 48th Street Resistance. But I think many of us are with Indivisible Sacramento. Surprised at the amount of truckers that give us a honk!

Francesca Reitano's avatar

Hello neighbor! We have one in my neighborhood in Sacramento on a freeway overpass, and there are many around the area. Thank you for being there!

Fran Bowman's avatar

Yes! I have done a banner drop on Sutterville Road Overpass. We got a lot of honks from truckers when the tariffs were starting. With Indivisible Yolo.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

¡Bravò, Fran, bravò!🫱🏻‍🫲🏽

Dr. Connie Kellogg's avatar

So Casteneda Mondragon overstayed his visa. Do you know who else overstay his visa? Elon Musk when he was in the United States from his home in South Africa. Hmmmmmmm

william richter's avatar

But Musk is protected, as a member of the Epstein fraternity.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Yes, that Greek house, Alpha-Epstein-Sigh

Claudia Allred's avatar

I once belonged to a sorority called Rudy Bega Pie. In the mid-1960’s.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Love it. There was a jazz tune "Rutabega Pie" (1969) that I loved playing on my college show to my booming audience of twelve listeners.

https://youtu.be/kt1AY2ygQzk

Claudia Allred's avatar

The gursh durn spellcheck that I have a love hate relationship with, changed my Ruta to Ruty. We did that to try to get better seats for football. In the 60’s the Greeks got the best seats, and we were just po fok. It didn’t work, tho.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Well I joined a socially acceptable house and did not last long. Switched to a house that was more like an island of mis-fit toys and we had a blast.

Bonnie Lane's avatar

And Melania who was probably brought over with the Epstein trafficking group to service her future husband

dee's avatar

The FIRST to be deported...!!!

Jon Rosen's avatar

I would highly doubt that. She is a US citizen now. Very unlikely that she could ever be deported. Ditto for Musk.

Jon Rosen's avatar

Actually, no he didn't. His family emigrated from South Africa to Canada when Musk was young and they took up residence there. Musk came to the US from Canada to go to school at Stanford and as far as any reports go, he never overstayed any visa here. There have been allegations that he may have violated the terms of his student visa by opening a company and working here (which he denies saying he was in a "gray" area), but that is a lot less severe violation than overstaying. And within a year, they corrected their status and got legal work visas for any foreign nationals working here.

william richter's avatar

The thugs have abused and deported plenty of people who broke less than the Apartheid baby, which is more to the point than that his family had an opportunity to correct their status.

Bill's avatar

Another defense of the duplicity of outcomes.

Too many defend Musk as successful vs the regular workers that are also successful (think carpenters, roofers, field hands, etc.) that are also trying to make a living. Only 7% are cited as criminals.

New Mexico, Arizona, SoCal, Tx were Mexico before America. Our crops don't know borders.

Wade Baynham's avatar

Thank you, Joyce. The 'we' that I am a part of also refuse to be Nazis or go along. I'm grateful for every single person saying NO to death dealers, and yes to compassion, justice and accountability.

Ed Weber's avatar

Accountability? Where? Not in the U.S. Lying about that which has been on video and witnessed by millions in real time has had no consequences. Lying about climate science or vaccines has no consequences. Lying about established scientific fact such as evolution has never had any consequences in this society which seems to be just fine with fraud because "freedom of speech" is equated with freedom to lie.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Thanks for the morale-booster shot, Wade! ⚖️🙏🏾🗽

Ellen Kandel's avatar

I saw a quote yesterday from someone in Minnesota who was helping his neighbors and acknowledging that he was willingly risking his life to do so, and even if he was killed he was confident that he had made the right decision. And I had a flash of insight into the minds of the people who enlist when their country is under attack. Isn't that how Captain America begins, with scrawny little Steve Rogers trying to be allowed to go to war? The way that you enlist in the war for democracy, for community, for humanity, in Minneapolis and Chicago and Los Angeles, these American cities under attack by our own government, is to get a whistle and a camera, to escort your neighbors to school and to work, to put on an inflatable frog costume and get tear gassed in the street, to drive behind agents in masks, knowing that they can box you in, shatter your windows, pull you out of your car and push your face into the ground, shackle you in the back of a van, release you hours or days later without a coat in the bitter cold. The Americans who are volunteering to defend against the Nazis include soccer moms, grandparents, ICU nurses, artists and poets. They sleep in their own beds at night, rather than bunkers, and every morning they get up and put their lives on the line to protect their communities. It is such a beautiful thing that we are witnessing, this outpouring of humanity and love that is the best of what this country has aspired to be, and has seldom been.

Ruth Sheets's avatar

Ellen, beautifully said. These folks are heroes defending this nation and our ideals, We need to get their stories out to a wider audience so folks will know what their neighbors are doing and that they would do the same for them if they were in need of defense. Kudos to the ordinary folks who are truly heroes!!

David J. Sharp's avatar

And it needs remembering that Kavanaugh stops are a creature of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Swbv's avatar

"Kavanaugh Stops" - - what a shame and embarrassment to our Constitution.

David J. Sharp's avatar

And yet so predictable — the Taney court without side whiskers.

Swbv's avatar
1dEdited

Absolutely. And the Roberts Court will find itself in the same chapter in the history books as the Taney Court. Add in Citizens United, Dobbs, Trump Immunity, and you have a full color Constitutional horror show.

David J. Sharp's avatar

AND ignoring lower court’s decisions (including those against Trump) AND deciding so much by shadow docket … without providing any reasoning, creating lower court confusion … which it then castigates. Injustice unending.

James Coyle's avatar

They’ve fallen past Taney and are plumbing new depths.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Digging deep … all the way to China.

James Coyle's avatar

Ha! I haven’t heard that one for 70 years 🤣👍

David J. Sharp's avatar

I am 75 … I remember it clearly.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

It does feel like the Fugitive Slave Law all over again.

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Yes, good ole Jim Crow.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Jim chortles, “Voter ID … brings back memories!”

James Coyle's avatar

And be sure to keep calling them that. He hates it 😁

David J. Sharp's avatar

I weep in Bret’s beer

James Coyle's avatar

You’re a better person than me 😁

David J. Sharp's avatar

Not if I’m drinking watery beer!

Linda (Evanston IL)'s avatar

Thinking Kavanaugh might be in the Epstein files.

Jon Rosen's avatar

I highly doubt it. Kavanaugh didn't even come to national attention until the early 2000s.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Poignant. Terrifying. Now so many people must keep one bag packed for fear of that pounding on the door at nighttime.

Marc Donner's avatar

My father survived the Holocaust (barely). I am not a Nazi. I was born here. I am a patriotic American. I love this country, or at least, what it once was and will be again. I’ve been at No Kings (twice), Hands Off, and a bunch of unnamed protests. I’m not backing down. Trump and ICE can come and kill me. Never forget!

Mike Savage's avatar

Thank you Professor. And honestly, there’s no need for any of this. How can they justify themselves? It is not the American way. I hope someone stands out soon to lead us properly and equally for everybody. ☮️❤️🌻

Swbv's avatar

What is needed is for some of our senior Republicans to call a halt to performative cruelty against the American populace. Stop acting like the Nazi thugs of 90 years ago. Let's hear more than crickets from Bush, Romney, Thune. We can forget about Graham - - he's sold his soul down the drain to the devil.

Happy Valley No More's avatar

The GOP is really the biggest problem. Their silence is complicity in all that the felon does. Not only are they spineless and without moral guidelines, they are useless. I can only hope most of them will not be reelected. Karma will come for them.

Ruth Sheets's avatar

Mike, the sad thing is that this is or rather, has been part of the American way. In our south and in some northern locations too, Black men and women and their allies were lynched for wanting something better, more fair, more equal. Those perpetrators were extremely rarely held accountable. White women and children came to sites of lynchings and cheered, jeered, and showed themselves to be worse than anything those being lynched could possibly have done, right along with their white men. Trump, Miller, and the rest of the white house toddler pool have grabbed onto that "right" to be white and hateful, even murderous if they choose. America is better, but the strains of that old white male destruction are still being heard, even in the ICE recruitment ads. I would bet those ICErs would be delighted to hang a few people and commit the same horrors their ancestors did to those who wanted their right to a piece of the pie. This country needs to be forced to face who we have been and what we want to become. I don't think we want to become what we were, particularly white Americans. We need to be protesting in every way we can. That's what we are called to do and then to keep our elections free and ICE off our streets. Our Congress needs to be held accountable, anyone in either party who supports ICE and the other things DHS is doing need to be unelected ASAP, every single one!

Mike Savage's avatar

They blatantly just expose their pure hatred they have. It’s just makes me very sad that people can’t care for their fellow humans any better?

Jon Rosen's avatar

Unfortunately, a large segment of white America in fact wants to precisely become what America used to be: a place of segregation and separation, by race, gender, orientation, religious belief and wealth. Why? Because in those "good old days" white America was the leadership and everyone else, while tolerated to varying degrees, were the underclasses. It astonishes me that we have held on to one person, one vote for so long, as income-based voting would provide the wealth class with more than enough power to override anything the rest of us could do.

Get A Grip You Dipshit's avatar

I can’t think of any reason any normal person might be surprised.

Over 30% of the country voted for this.

Fran Bowman's avatar

I think nobody voted for senseless killings in the street by masked goons, but maybe I am wrong.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Indeed. Why isn’t MAGA flooding the streets supporting their patriotic thugs?

Ned McDoodle's avatar

Embarrassment. M.A.G.A. is getting screwed the worst in this tax-bill; I guess the alienation runs deep.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Poor chumps! Once Trump got re-elected (and could stay out of jail), he abandoned those suckers … who, after donning their MAGA finery, didn’t even notice until now … maybe.

Swbv's avatar

Mike Johnson is pitiful, sad, a liar, and hateful. The last two adjectives not associated with most Christians. What a complete and utter disappointment as a man and as a leader. He should quit and return to civilian life where his lying would have less global impact and reflect less poorly on the the whole of the United States. For shame Mr. Johnson!

JV: "On Friday, House Speaker Mike Johnson said that the No Kings rally on Saturday was a “hate-America” rally. He said the people attending would be “the pro-Hamas wing” and “the antifa people.” He’s wrong. We are, in the best tradition of America’s Greatest Generation, truly anti-fascist."

ELIZABETH Craze's avatar

He is one of the new pretend to be Christians. Call yourself one but don't practice it.

lauriemcf's avatar

the bigger the cross the bigger the lies -- Bondi, Leavitt, Noem

Pam Birkenfeld's avatar

I never go to Las Vegas but I am an old Eagles fan, and going with a girlfriend to watch them there. I’m pretty sure there will be some kind of demonstration in Las Vegas and I will be there for that too!

Susan Stone's avatar

I hope you have a great time in Vegas! The Eagles were one of the very best bands back in the day.

Lee Guion's avatar

Will there ever be accountability and restitution for all those harmed and murdered by government militias?

Keith Wheelock's avatar

SOME OF US ACT LIKE NAZIS, BUT THE GREAT MAJORITY OF US ARE NOT

At 92, I’ve been a Foreign Service Officer, and have lived and worked in various countries.

From age 58-to-80 as a history/economics professor., I had the rare opportunity to reflect on recent and earlier events.

I examined the rise of Hitler and other authoritarians in Europe and elsewhere. None of them had the centuries of evolutional democracy that has evolved in America, a country of immigrants.

What struck me about Hitler was how so many Germans initially were either beguiled by him or doubted that the author of DAS KAPITAL could be serious—he seemed a nonentity.

Swiftly, once he entered the chancellory, he consolidated power and used his Brown Shirts to intimidate and to kill. Within two years he had castrated the judicial system and soon was intimating and absorbing neighboring countries. No group or country seemed capable of stopping his blitzkrieg moves.

Trump, by transforming a plurality presidency and constitutional checks and balances into his self-styled kingship, mirrored many of Hitler’s initial takeover tactics. Against an unfocused opposition, he sought to devastate the American judicial bulwark and various institutions, including educational, legal, and human rights.

‘King’ Trump, in his initial year, dominated the American scene, while he was enriching himself and his fellow fat cats. He was also monumenting Trumpism at the White House, the Kennedy Center, and elsewhere. Meanwhile, based on American economic and military strength, he sought to humiliate and dominate many of America’s traditional allies.

Several months ago, I was distraught at the cultist power of this apparent Trump juggernaut.

Today I believe that the tide is turning and that he and Stephen Himmler Miller have peaked and are in decline. I believe that Machiavelli accurately describes this inevitable decline. He wrote of the ability to depend on force rather than love, but never to create massive hatred.

The ICE episodes in Minneapolis and elsewhere highlight the fear and hatred that Trump has triggered. Unlike the 1956 Hungarian revolution and other uprisings including the 2011 Arab Spring, there is a swelling, broad-based resistance that is empowering many Americans to speak up and act against Trump’s egotistical, destructive, and brutal whims.

Also, Trump with his tariffs, threats and militarization globally, is prompting our former allies to coalesce against his despicable assaults.

While Trump continues his efforts to degut the federal government and legal network, brave groups—in Minneapolis, at Harvard, many judges, and even some disillusioned Trumpists—are fighting back,

It’s a vexing struggle, as Trump, deeply concerned by his failing poll numbers, speaks of militarization and ‘nationalizing’ the vital 2026 state and local elections.

What is occurring contrasts sharply with the Hitlerian pattern. We are uniting and have the power to seize back the soul of America from ‘King’ Trump.

Today I am optimistic that the nightmare of Trumpism has peaked. I have increasing confidence in the American people, as they spontaneously coalesce to counter the hate that Trump has hurled at diverse American groups and institutions.

AMERICAN HISTORY IS ON OUR SIDE AGAINST THE ABERRATION OF TRUMPISM. WE SHOULD NO LONGER FEAR HIM. WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO RESTORE THE SOUL OF AMERICA. LETS DEMONSTRATE THIS BY A FULSOME REJECTION OF TRUMPISM IN THE 2026 ELECTIONS.

Karin Gjording's avatar

Thank you Keith for your amazing perspective. From 92 years of age, and as a history professor . I find my reading to be primarily about resistors and survivors of the Hitler era, looking for clues to guide us forward. I am heartened that you believe the tide is turning. Thank you….Karin

Jon Rosen's avatar

We should at least TRY to stick to historical facts. Hitler came to power in 1932, and his first actual invasion of another country was 1939, more than six years after he took power in Germany. To say that he started invading in two years is simply a serious mistatement of history. Of course, once he started invading other countries, he never stopped until the end of WWII, but I do hope that we can NOT mislead by giving "facts" that are simply not factual.

Keith Wheelock's avatar

Jon I’m delighted that you find almost all of my Hitler/Trump commentary spot on.

To be historically accurate, Hitler became chancellor in 1933, the year of my birth (and FDR entering the White House).

How would you describe Hitler’s occupation of Saar, Austria, and ‘peace in our time’ in Sudeten? (Sort of like Trump’s ‘nudges’ on Greenland and elsewhere?)

At 92, when I write spontaneously late at night, I do not interrupt to fact check. My memory is pretty good.

Christine's avatar

Thank you Joyce for your heartfelt column today. Never thought at 78 when getting ready to leave the house I would be adding whistle to my checklist along with glasses and hearing aid.

Ron Menaker's avatar

There is an often-repeated poem by Martin Niemoller, "First they came...." that most readers are familiar with. Another version starts "first they came for the journalists....we don't know what happened after that". Joyce Vance' work is essential, to have the messages shared that we all need to hear. Let's spread the word and support Joyce and other independent media.....this is a patriotic act when the country needs us.